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tv   The Fox News Specialists  FOX News  May 23, 2017 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT

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>> neil: i lied. i'm not leaving. i wanted to take a peek at the dow. if the world was shaken by this, it had a funny way of showing it. maybe we are used to it. much more tomorrow. that will do it. >> eric: i am eric bolling with eboni k. williams and kat timpf. we are "the fox news specialists" ." a lot of fast-moving developments today after last night's horrific terror attack in manchester, england. police are naming the bomber as 22-year-old salman abedi. abedi was born in the u.k. but is the son of a libyan refugee family. a massive manhunt is underway for accomplices. >> we have just learned the british prime minister has raised the threat level from
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severe to critical. there is clearly concerned there could be a follow on attack which is awful news for the residents of the united kingdom and certainly they have a million people who live in manchester. a horrific attack nearly 23 hours ago. this scene is different here. police are still here, the road is still close but no screams, no sirens. the train station, victoria station, also closed. it's connected directly to the manchester arena, largest indoor concert venue in the u.k. it's believed the bomber blew himself up between the train station and the concert venue in a public area. just as 21,000 people began streaming for the exits. those people were mostly teens and preteens who had just enjoyed a ariana grande concert and were headed for the exits when the suspect blew himself up with an improvised explosive
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device that included nuts and bolts to maximize the cartage. victims included 18-year-old georgina colander. she was a student who loved pop music and ariana grande. had met her a couple years ago and posted their picture on instagram. another victim, an 8-year-old girl named saffie rose roussos who is mom and sisters were among the dozens of wounded, they are among those dozens being treated at eight area hospitals. here is more from the prime minister who spoke a short time ago. >> it is concluded on the basis of today's investigations that the threat level should be increased for the time being from severe to critical. >> more than 20 dead, close to 60 wounded. this is the worst attack in the u.k. since the train bombings on
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july 7, 2005. >> eric: let's meet today's specialists. she is ame award-winning broadcast journalist. she is the anchor of mega-tv. her specialty is speaking about u.s.-hispanic issues. a virus al-azhar he is the former chairman of godfather's pizza but his specialty is rocket science. i'm not kidding. i will get to the specialists in a second but i want to talk about theresa may raising the threat level, basically saying they believe another terror attack is imminent. >> eboni: i am happy to see pro activity. theresa may elevating the concern. >> eric: we should not think this is not irrelevant that ariana grande, an american artist, being, the concert being
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attacked. >> kat: it's not irrelevant. they were targeting young girls. it's very disgusting. it's an attack and it's an attack on us and our way of life. i love that president trump called them losers. i think that's great. we need to be careful. not letting it interfere with our way of life. dispute three herman mccain, what goes on there doesn't necessarily go on here but we have to be careful it doesn't. >> president trump's initiative to do better vetting and control who comes in the country, now the people who are against that, it makes them look stupid quite frankly. that's the one thing we can do. we can do better vetting and know who is here and we can know who has overstayed their visas.,
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they are avoiding common sense themes that could be done. >> eric: do you agree with herman cain that we need to step up vetting? >> elvira: i have no doubt and i agree with what you're saying but i think what president trump was more important and intelligent, going to saudi arabia and talking to the muslim world. he telling them we need your help. we cannot do it alone. they are your enemies as well as ours. 95% of the victims that isis and al qaeda has hit upon or killed is muslim grid we need to go to the root of the problem until those countries helping these guys become radicalized hey, you've got to stop. you've got to stop the financing and stop helping them and preaching this radical idea. >> kat: we need to look at homegrown terrorism. this guy was born here, just like the orlando shooter, born here. san bernardino shooter, one was
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born here and one was from saudi arabia. she was here legally as well. homegrown terrorism is a huge problem. the solutions aren't quite so easy. >> eric: i'm going to jump into that a little bit in the monologue later. however, we need to note, and we did in the intro, that mr. abedi is the son of libyan refugees. >> kat: that's true but even trump's ban would be temporary for refugees. it's difficult to vet a son. >> eric: what i was getting at was the freedom to become a refugee and get into europe and travel freely throughout the continent can be dangerous, can be seen as dangerous. >> eboni: we have to do is more than one thing at one time. i'm sure we can do it. we can have important constitutional extreme vetting and we can watch out for these
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homegrown domestic terrorism. this is ideological. we know this. we have to stamp out the ideology. as kat said, san bernardino. this manchester person, born in england. it is more than one issue. >> herman: it starts with enforcement of laws that are already there and making sure we know who is here as well as better vetting of those who want to come here. >> eric: and the hundreds of thousands of people who overstay their visas in the united states. >> elvira: and that's why we have such an immigration problem. if you want to get into that, we can deal with that issue. don't give them jobs. >> eric: isn't it the same issue? points to the exact same threats, whether it's a muslim, i'm sorry, a radical islamic terrorists who want to come here or someone coming from the
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southern border. >> elvira: the difference is that the guy sneaking in on the southern border wants a job and he gets it. if the person who gives him the job is as much to blame as he has. >> eric: in the aftermath of the manchester attack, somehow took up some are saying to accept terror as a way of life. >> europe is getting used to attacks like this. we have to because we are never going to be able to totally wipe this out. as isis gets squeezed in syria and iraq, were going to see more of these attacks taking place in europe. and europe is starting to get used to that. none of us are used to having children targeted in this way, young girls targeted in this way. >> eric: basically she is saying we need to get used to it. how the hill do you get used to terror attacks? >> kat: you shouldn't. it's not about the carnage. it's about the fact that it's
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that you see the scene. girls wearing kitten ears. it's about trying to spread fear through the entire culture. important to not change our way of life, not sure we are afraid. to call them losers. i thought that was the most savage, wonderful thing to say. >> herman: forgive me for being direct. that's a silly statement to say were going to get used to terror when there are so many things we can do with the technology we have and they intelligence community. we do not have to settle for it, as some people are suggesting fairly can do a lot about it. the reason the people who do this are losers is because their way of life has lost against our way of life. that's really the big difference between how they think and how we think. they are jealous of us having the biggest economy in the world and the most powerful military and the most freedom.
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>> eboni: i agree wholeheartedly and i would go a step further and say i reject what katie was saying. many, this guy was already on their watch. they were already looking at him. san bernardino, already looking. a ten month probe on the orlando shooter. we are doing a lot right around identifying threats but we are doing something wrong about following up. >> elvira: the orlando terrace paid i live in miami. he was, a week before he went to the place where he bought all the ammunition in order to conduct the attack and he wanted to buy a heavy body armor. the owner of the store said no, i'm not going to sell it to you. he turned around and call the fbi and the fbi never followed up. the fbi could have stopped the massacre if they had kept a closer eye.
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>> eric: why are we concerned about donald trump saying we want to vet people, not muslim people, but from these nations who have known ties to terror. why are we so upset with his proposal? >> kat: because of his past comments. it's completely legal, without a question, for a president to ban based on a geographic location. we even had rudy giuliani come out and say trump asked him how to implement the muslim ban. >> eric: but it's not. they reject -- they rejected rudy's account of that. they pushed back. these are six of the seven in president trump's nation moratorium came from president obama himself. >> eboni: true, on its face but absent candidate trump's
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rhetoric on the campaign trail, he specifically talked about banning muslims. now what you're saying is right, the notion of a geographical target around criminally profiling. >> eric: for the safety of america, do we not want to go on what president trump has put on paper as president and forget what he said as a candidate. people say a lot of things. >> elvira: look at how he was treated when he went to saudi arabia. they treated him like a king. >> kat: they would be too influential to ban. >> elvira: there muslim brothers were on the list. >> eric: we have a lot more on this topic. president trump calling for all civilized nations to obliterate terrorism in the wake of the manchester attack. how can he rally support during
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>> eboni: confronting terrorism was already a major part of president trump's focus on this trip. now it is taken center stage. >> i won't call them monsters because they would like that term. they would think that's a great name. i will call them, from now on, losers because that's what they are. they are losers. >> eboni: president trump delivering a forceful call for u.s. allies to rally against the islamic terror threat. despicable >> we must drive oute terrorists and extremists from our midst. protect and defend our citizens and people of the world.
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>> eboni: how should this manchester attack impact president trump's strategy moving forward? >> elvira: 1% of the population of the united states is muslim. i think we should go to the mosques and talk to them and become friends with them and tell them the fbi and all of the law enforcement agencies, they are friends, not enemies. keep an eye on the youngsters that have gone back to the country of origin of their parents and become radicalized. people that have become very religious all of a seven. check on their website, what they are writing on social medi media. talk to their friends, and keep an eye on them. the fbi is keeping an eye on hundreds and hundreds of muslim youngsters that may become radicalized. that's why i think we haven't had so many attacks like europe. >> eboni: i can appreciate that from a legal perspective but i'm going to turn to you,
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kat. this gets into a delicate balance between public safety and civil liberties because some people can say that what you are describing sounds like profiling. as an attorney, criminal profiling is an effective tool. but racial is a whole nother thing. it's unconstitutional. new talk about targeting people on the basis of religion, how do you feel about that? >> kat: i don't feel great about it. we need to think about, before we make policy changes from an emotional place. this is a very emotional issue. when you look at a lot of the things people try to do in practice to stop terrorism, look at what happened in manchester. there was all these metal detectors, security. he moved the bombs further outside. you go to the airport. there is nobody in the parking lot. 20 groups of people everywhere. we need to make sure to not destroy our own civil liberties
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with policies trying to prevent a threat. that's a threat to our way of life too. >> eboni: do you think we have to recalibrate the balance? ultimately the courts have sided with the civil liberties part. >> herman: it starts with allowing the agency to do their jobs. they have tools to recalibrate but because everybody is so politically sensitive about being politically correct, you don't make policies based upon sound bites. eight years, for eight years, the authorities were afraid to do their jobs because they were going to be thrown under the bus. this president has said i'm not going to throw you under the bus. let's find a -- err on the side of -- >> eric: if you see something, say something.
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elvira, you talked about san bernardino that the family had turned over to the fbi but neighbors saw something and they felt if they did say something they were going to be called islamaphobic. i would also say that the temporary travel moratorium is going to be important because it tells the world you're not going to just walk in here, come over here and if you have some sort of jihad, which they do. rates extreme vetting, it's not a ban. it's a temporary moratorium from areas, not religions but from areas of the world were terror is a hotbed. >> eboni: i think the message needs to be cleaner. we have to understand. what you're talking about make sense. i think most people would be on board with it. i think the messaging gets convoluted and we end up with something that sounds like
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racial or religious profiling. >> eric: the trump administration has rewritten it. pointing out and has nothing to do with race or religion. just origin. >> elvira: putting that aside, president trump's trip to saudi arabia and somehow changing the rules or lease changing the perception the way that the muslim world sees us or sees him where he is saying we are not here because we don't want to clash of civilizations. we want to be your friend. we want you to help us. we are here to protect you against iran, another problem they have, and isis and al qaeda. i think the muslim world will look at us with a different eye. >> kat: i want to point out there are people in this country know who are here legally that have family in those countries. that's why it's a sensitive issue. they are worried, can their family see them? and they go see their family and come back? >> eric: they cleared it up.
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if you had visas, people who were holding visas who had family in the country had the freedom to come here. can i pose this to anyone who want where are the moderate muslims in america who are stepping up and becoming more forceful in the fight against jihad or calling out terror cells we know are happening? >> elvira: we have to go back to the mosques and talk to them and say we need your help. 1% of the population, almost 3 million muslims, we need you more than the fbi because they are the ones that will tell us who are the bad hombres in the muslim world. >> eboni: top officials that to testify on capitol hill toda today. we asked a group of young people
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>> kat: the russia investigation in the spotlight today with top, current, and former intelligence officials testifying. comes after a new strike by leakers for this time alleging in "the washington post" that president trump had asked intelligence chiefs to publicly deny collusion between his campaign in russia. the collusion question played big during john brennan's hearing. >> did evidence exist of collusion, coordination, conspiracy between the trump campaign and russian state actors? >> i don't know whether or not such collusion, that's your term, such collusion existed. i don't know. but i know there was a sufficient basis of information and intelligence that required further investigation by the bureau to determine whether or
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not u.s. persons were actively conspiring, colluding with russian officials. >> kat: so brennan doesn't know if actual collusion occurred. i am pretty much only interested in actual collusion. i thought the way trump's team handled it was perfect. a white house spokesperson said we are not confirming or denying anonymous things. i want to see proof. i am glad the investigation is going on. i'm happy to see it continuing, but more anonymous leaks, okay. >> herman: this whole thing and some of the articles that have come out of it illustrates it provides just enough buzzwords for speculation. no proof, no sources, no facts. just more speculation. the liberal media is going to pick up on some of these phrases and run with it. for example, they're going to run -- they're going to speculate on a conclusion and
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try to find something to substantiate the conclusion. that is what is wrong with all of this. >> kat: i think people are less interested in it now, though, even then the beginning of this week. >> eric: the left in the mainstream media will eat this up as long as there is something to eat. there's a great opportunity where you have an obama appointee, former fbi director who says i've got no collusion, no evidence, no proof. i don't even have proof of interference. yet there he is testifying and leaning left and, as herman cain points out, providing sound bites for the left-leaning media all day long. all day long, that's all i heard. john brennan basically saying the russians were involved in some form or some way. there's no evidence of collusion and that's the only thing that could be wrong or illegal. >> eboni: what is brennan
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saying that's leaning left? didn't he just make a flat answer? >> eric: did the russians get involved in the u.s. elections and he said yes, i honestly think they did. but then he was further asked, did trump have anything to do with it and to influence the outcome of the elections? and both answers were no. the left plays this up. >> eboni: but that is not brennan. >> kat: the right has done the same thing on many other issues. this is a normal thing to be done. at least there's an investigation but we can see what happens. the best thing that can happen for president trump is there is nothing. >> eboni: a completed investigation. we go back and forth about this many times. nobody saying there's any evidence and it might end up there is nothing. the investigation is not complete. >> eric: the clock stops and they say let's have another gam game.
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>> elvira: "washington post" article very interesting. at the bottom of the article it says that michael rogers, nsa director, said president trump allegedly told him that if there's no evidence, if there is no evidence. in than what the headline is saying is that trump said to rogers, say there is no evidence. that's a small word but it's very big in context. we have to understand that apparently the president said to rogers, if there is no investigation, go out publicly and say it. that's not correct either because president trump apparently didn't know rogers couldn't say one way or the other. proof is in the article. i don't understand why "the washington post" didn't put that in the lead. >> kat: people are starting to move away from the collusion stuff and into the obstruction.
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we have to let it run its cours course. >> eric: did they have any evidence or proof of the obstruction of justice? >> kat: they don't have anything yet but why not let it continue? of course they're going to let it continue. leakers and their allies on the left are turbocharged to go after president trump, pushing and obstruction of justice narrative. i joined the army in july of '98. i did active duty 11 years. and two in the reserves. our 18 year old was in an accident. when i call usaa it was that voice asking me, "is your daughter ok?" that's where i felt relief. it actually helped to know that somebody else cared and wanted make sure that i was okay. that was really great. we're the rivera family, and we will be with usaa for life. usaa.
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they failed to reveal any actual hard evidence of collusion, so now it's all about obstruction of justice. >> what's the president did firing james comey and then saying he did it to relieve pressure on himself because of the fbi investigation was a classic case of obstruction of justice, a federal crime. >> president fires the guy coming after him. >> there's clearly some indication of obstruction of justice. >> you just parse the words donald trump said. it does seem very close to a confession of obstruction of justice. >> eboni: obsession with obstruction, just another grasp in the dark. >> herman: this is another indication of phrases that the liberal media wants to grab, the democrats want to grab. the fact that he fired james comey, that's not conclusive.
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what's needed, how about evidence? how about clearly some indication based upon what? are we supposed to parse words, develop policy, and take action based on evidence? none of this adds up to anything except more malarkey, more distraction, more delays in getting this presidents agenda across. i am passionate. >> eboni: i love a good malarkey. >> eric: the liberals and democrats, mainstream media have moved from collusion to obstruction of justice and then the ad in watergate. we will talk about this. nixon fired archibald cox after there was a crime any crime proven, a trial. people pled guilty to things. as far as this is concerned, there is nothing, no smoking gun, no evidence, no collusion, no tampering with evidence pretty is allowed to fire comey. the comparison to watergate is a
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false comparison point blank. obstruction of justice, you are the counselor. tell us. >> eboni: there's two things that are missing. specific intent, you have to show it. to thwart the investigation and then you have to show a judicial process was going on. both of those are missing. >> elvira: the evidence has shown that the russians tried to interfere with the our elections but we have not been able to come up with a smoking gun that anybody in the trunk camp asked them, help them. i think that's it. is there anybody that helped them or asks the russians to do it? >> eboni: a few moments ago, senate officials have sent new subpoenas to michael flynn. do you think that could be the smoking gun? if it is, they should just give
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michael flynn immunity and see what is there? >> kat: michael flynn had previously said that whoever has immunity has something to hide. and then he asked for it. i am not an investigator. i love that we have this investigation. i'm saying i don't know but it's okay that i don't know. i'm not going to come out and say there is no way. i'm not going to say yeah, for sure. there's no evidence right now, there is some more investigatin investigating. i'm going to wait and see and go on with my life and let them do their job. >> eric: let's say michael flynn did have some contact with the russians. he was fired summarily when find out -- when it was found out he lied. they got rid of him. i would i
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think >> elvira: the beauty is we can be talking about this opy on every channel in the united states. this system, the institutions work. that we see, what madison said, the finger of god writing our constitution. the system works and it will take us, like paul ryan said, follow the facts. >> herman: but one portion of the system is not working, and it called the liberal media. when you're going to convict somebody based upon the phrase "parsing of words," that's what's broken. >> kat: they don't have the power to convict anybody. >> eboni: i've got to cut through. we're going to be back. we've been speaking a lot about senseless, tragic killing today.
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i want to bring to your attention something that has been buried among other headlines. on the university of maryland campus, it's suspected to be a hate crime. lieutenant collins was set to graduate today with a business degree. this school is posthumously awarding him his degree, presenting it to his family and fellow cadets in the wake of his tragic murder. they have draped his cap and gown over a front row chair that will remain empty in his honor. i'm going to say we must work together to stomp out all of these terror threats, both foreign and domestic. lieutenant collins, we salute you. it's time to wake up, america. eric bolling's fired up over immigration and this border mess in the u.s. and europe and the threat it's posing to our national security. we're family. we'd do anything for each other.
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>> eric: time to wake up, america. a nail bomb ripped through a concert hall in manchester, england. a ariana grande concert where the audience was predominantly young people. 22 dead so far, some as young as
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an 8-year-old girl. the killer, salman abedi. the son of refugees. last night's attack was the fifth terror attack in europe. so far just this year, and recently the bataclan concert hall in paris. in nice, truck barreled through a crowd killing 85 innocent people. brussels christmas market, westminster bridge and on and on. what is happening in europe? for years, europe has had an open border policy, free to travel without a visa. add to that, and extremely liberal immigration policy. in germany alone, angela merkel is allowing a million syrian refugees into the country. check out the pictures and you seem mostly young men flooding into germany, potentially an army of jihadists, free to move
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throughout europe. that's an insane immigration policy. here at home, trump is trying to limit the potential terrorists from entering the united states. it's not a muslim ban. it's a ban on a country of origin, a moratorium, actually. after all, there is no doubt. many of them hate us. no doubt many of them may even want to kill us. wake up, america. wake up, liberals. and wake up, ninth circuit court judges while you fight trump over political correctness. you make us less safe in america. radical islamic terrorists are plotting ways to get to america and carry out their jihad. once they are here, they are here. we cannot let them in order terror will hit us at home, just like it is in europe. isn't that the essence of it? limit the jihadists from coming here. >> kat: i definitely don't
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want jihadists here. this guy was born in manchester. in the united states, you want to talk about immigration. every single lethal attack carried out by an islamic extremist since 9/11 has been by someone who was either a citizen or someone who is here illegall illegally. of course we don't want jihadists here. we have to look at what's been happening. they have been homegrown. we need to look at that rather than go in somewhere where we are going to start risking our civil liberties because of an emotional experience we are having with regards to the threat. >> herman: the one thing europe has done for decades, they have allowed isolation of groups rather than insist on assimilation. tony blakely wrote a great book outlining that. they allow these communities to say we don't want the cops in here. that is isolation. that's where this hatred can
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breed and feed upon itself. that's what we must stop. if you want to come to the united states of america, assimilate. don't isolate. >> elvira: i agree. the social mobility in europe cannot be compared to the social mobility in this country. that's why we are the best country. >> eric: what about the physical mobility of people throughout europe or you don't need to go through border crossing or a passport to go from france to spain. >> elvira: what he is saying that even if you are in france or spain, chances are you're going to get a good job and have social mobility and make more money and have a better social place. it's almost impossible. here in this country, the american grave. >> eric: of germany decides they want to let a million syrian refugees come in, maybe not the severe form of vetting that we have your coming are basically opening up the whole continent of europe to what
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happened. >> eboni: i am all for integration and immigration and migration all that stuff but i feel like common sense. plainly put. you cannot let in terrorists and not be accountable or responsible for who you let in. that is flat out not leadership. >> kat: i am not saying we should be like germany. we are not like germany now. that's stupid. >> eric: if you have an open border, what if mexican had an open border policy and jihadists were flooding into mexico and we, as americans come out were not going to protect the border if we say that, aren't we opening ourselves up to the same things going on in europe. >> elvira: there are two chapters of immigration. the muslim problem and the muslim ban at the hispanics people trying to sneak in. you cannot put those together.
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>> eric: what i am trying to do is point out the importance of our southern border. of sovereignty. >> elvira: i agree with you. build the wall. but with big gates. we need a lot of people picking jalapeno peppers in southern california or oranges in miami or cleaning the toilets here in manhattan. we need them. if we don't want them, you know we need to do? implement e-verify. if it's bad for the guy to sneak in, it's a felony for the guy who gives him a job. what about people who say -- >> herman: if you show leadership and insist we've got to do this for the betterment of the country. >> kat: >> elvira: no one is goo do it. >> herman: you have to have faith. yes they will. i think it's a bad rap against business people. >> elvira: i agree.
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if it's good for the goose. it's good for the gander. it will never happen. >> eric: we have to leave it there. >> elvira: e-verify will never happen. >> eric: fired up specialists.
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♪ it's not just a car, it's your daily treat. ♪ go ahead, spoil yourself. the es and es hybrid. experience amazing. a trip back to the dthe doctor's office, mean
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just for a shot. but why go back there, when you can stay home... ...with neulasta onpro? strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection, which could lead to hospitalizations. in a key study, neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17% to 1%... ...a 94% decrease. applied the day of chemo, neulasta onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the next day, so you can stay home. neulasta is for certain cancer patients receiving strong chemotherapy. do not take neulasta if you're allergic to neulasta or neupogen (filgrastim). ruptured spleen, sometimes fatal as well as serious lung problems, allergic reactions, kidney injuries, and capillary leak syndrome have occurred. report abdominal or shoulder tip pain, trouble breathing or allergic reactions to your doctor right away. in patients with sickle cell disorders, serious, sometimes fatal crises can occur. the most common side effect is bone and muscle ache. so why go back there? if you'd rather be home, ask your doctor about neulasta onpro.
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>> time to circle back with our specialist, herman cain and elvira salazar. herman, i was going to ask you to say, i will just say that my head. godfather's pizza, other than godfather's pizza, what's your favorite pizza? >> the one i make it home. the one i make it home, i'm on the my wife makes. we make great pizza at home. may be i learn something when i was running out fathers, that would be my favorite. >> no ordering and going on. >> no, no. cooking it. >> i've a question for herman. we said that your specialty was rocket science, please elaborate. >> when i first got out of college i was a mathematician for the department of the navy, and the big project that i worked on was a project manager for a rocket assisted projectil projectile. to be fired from one of the big ships. it was one of the early phases
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of putting a rocket on the back of a jet to get it to go further. >> you could've added that to the pizza, and project the pizza onto the back. >> no, pepperoni might fly all over. >> , quick question for elvira salazar. what you recommend for americans that want to go to cuba for the first time? >> i think everybody should go there and see what communism does to you, and you should really see how that system does not work and ours is the best in the world. everyone should go to cuba, they don't let me in, i've asked them please, i would go and bring my kids and take my mom after 60 years, no. because i talk too much. [laughter] >> really? >> yet. yeah, we say -- >> we do need to wrap up the show right now.
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thank you to our fox news specialist, herman cain and elvira salazar, and we thank you all for watching. follow us on social media. remember, 5:00 will never be the same, "special report" is next. >> bret: this is a fox news alert. bret baier will be reporting from the border between saudi arabia and yemen in a few moments, but we begin with the latest on that horrific bombing in manchester. lights afternoon, the british government raised the threat level and deployed armed forces to help with internal security. i had about potential attack. last night, it left 22 people dead, 59 people wounded, many of the victims chiller. they were all attending a concert by pop singer ariana grande. we have the latest from u.s. intelligence agencies on the attack. john roberts, traveling with

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