tv The Story With Martha Mac Callum FOX News April 10, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
nonswahili english. >> bret: that's it for us, thank you for inviting us into your home tonight. that's it for >> bret: nine, fair and balanced and unafraid. "the story" with martha maccallum starts right now. >> martha: what we are watching today could be the beginning of the end for facebook and the wild west of the social media technology is about to run into a buzz saw that will set in was set in motion by congress. today, senator ted cruz talked about the hot issue of censoring political thought on facebook and also, how much is too much for sharing? >> there are a great many americans who i think are deeply concerned that facebook and other tech companies are engaged in a pattern of bias and
political censorship. there have been numerous instances where facebook in may of 2016 said that facebook had we truly and purposely suppressed stories from trending news, including stories about sea pack and met romney and the irf scandal. stories about glenn beck. in addition to that, facebook has initially shut down down te chick-fil-a appreciation day page blocked posts of fox news reporters, has blocked over two dozen catholic pages and most recently, blocked trump supporters page with 1.2 million facebook followers after determining their contact and brand were "unsafe to the community." to a great many americans, that appears to be of pervasive pattern of political bias, do you agree with that statement? >> let me say a few things about this.
first, i understand where that concern is coming from because facebook and the tech industry are located in silicon valley which is an extreme a left-leaning place. i think it's a concern that i have and i try to root out in the company, making sure that we don't have any bias in the work that we do and i think it is a fair concern that people would wonder about it. >> are you aware of any page that has been taken down for planned parenthood? >> senator, i'm not, but let me -- >> how about moveon.org? how about any democratic candidate pages questioning >> i'm not specifically aware. i'm not sure. >> would you be comfortable in sharing with us the name of the hotel you stayed at last night? >> [laughs] no. [laughter] >> have you messaged anybody this week about would you share
with us the names of the people you message question or speak out no i would not choose to share that publicly. >> this is about your right to privacy, the limits of your right to privacy, and how much you give away in modern america to maintain "connecting people around the world." the question basically is what information facebook is collecting, who they are sending it to, whether they've ever ask in advance permission to do that. is that a fair thing for a user of facebook to expect? >> yes, senator. i think everyone should have control over what information they use. >> martha: that's still going on today. senate judiciary chair chuck grassley will join us in a minute. david kirkpatrick, who literally wrote the book on the facebook
effect, he has been studying this for over a decade. we begin tonight with the senate judiciary chairman chuck grassley. thank you for being here tonight. tell me what really stood out to you today? what was accomplished today, do you think in this hearing? >> i wouldn't say this has been accomplished, but it's pretty clear that facebook does not have any sort of record or a total amount of information that's been transferred. they don't seem to have an audit of what's going on or at least it hasn't been audited to this point. they don't know how much of that information has been shared with third parties and the third parties, what they have done with it. it seems to me that this is pretty essential for not only facebook, but other platforms to get this under control in order
to establish or reduce the skepticism and cynicism people have about these platforms in the privacy and for the protection of privacy. >> martha: there is some discussion that facebook knows some regulation is obviously coming for them. it's probably long overdue, that they're already trying to figure ways to work around it. are you concerned, i guess, that their ability to continue to collect data will outpace congress' ability to do anything about it? >> there is some legislation in on this and i would never try to tell you or anybody else that's passing a bill is going to solve any problems. there is two things to go in different directions. one is this organization can do the things they need to do to make sure people's privacy is
protected and of course, people are cynical about whether any corporation would do that. it's possible. the other one would be whatever laws and regulations we can pass, but we know ftc is operated in this area of regulation and agreement with them back in 2011 or 2012 and they didn't even follow that. >> martha: that's a good question. the fcc, shouldn't they have been protecting america's privacy? i think that's their motto. what were they doing about this for the last ten years? >> that's something we haven't had an oversight hearing on yet and that may be more in the jurisdiction of the commerce committee than it is under me, but it's something i'm very interested in because you make laws and one of the things we have in the legislative branch of government is oversight, constitutional oversight to make sure the laws are carried out the way congress intended them. >> martha: chairman chuck grassley, great to see you tonight. thank you very much. thanks for making time for us. >> thank you.
>> martha: joining me now, chris coons, a chair member who got to ask questions tonight. good to have a with us, senator coons. i want to play this sound bite for you on competition because this is another area of the congress perhaps could have some impact on facebook and social media. here is lindsey graham. >> is there an alternative to facebook in the private sectors? >> yes, senator. the average american uses eight different apps to committee kate with their friends and stay in touch with people. >> is it a service you provide? is twitter the same as what you do? >> at overlap spirit >> don't you have a monopoly? >> it doesn't feel like that to me. [laughter] >> martha: your take on that, senator. what can you take away from today and what can be accomplished? >> today was i hope the first of
several hearings where we can make sure that average americans understand the ways in which there personally identifying data is being collected and gathered, monetized, and used because americans should know how their data is being used and it should be used with their knowledge and their consent. one of the ways in which i think facebook and mark zuckerberg is getting into some trouble here, is practices which when caught or brought to light, zuckerberg apologizes for, promises that will make their best efforts to address, but then several years later, have not yet been resolved. one of the things i question today is a way to add targeting on facebook as possible to be racially exclusionary to how you put out ads about housing availability come out one of the other issues i asked of mr. zuckerberg was you make your money by targeting advertisers. would you allow a manufacturer to user data to target teams
ancients about their weight? or to allow a casino to target those with gambling problems? i think those are questions with exploring. >> martha: here is a broader issue that relates in some ways to that. watch. >> can you imagine a world where you might decide that pro-lifers are prohibited from speaking about their abortion views on your platform? >> i certainly would not want that to be the case. >> ed might be really unsettling to people who have had an abortion to have a debate about it. >> i don't think that would fit any of the definitions of what we have. >> martha: at one point, mark zuckerberg said they're going to use ai, artificial intelligence to govern and scan for hate speech. does that concern you? could that get into some pretty tricky territory here? >> absolutely. that's one of the reasons were going to need to have a robust debate about what kind of tools
and what kind of standards facebook is going to apply. i applaud the fact that facebook has been very active in identifying and taking down materials that are posted on facebook by jihadists groups that are advocating terrorism or violence, but one person's hate speech in the context that the senator was just talking about is another person's firmly held political or personal or religious beliefs. we need to make sure first that we don't infringe on the free-speech rights and second, that we don't so over regulate social media that we restricted or constrain it because it is exactly what free and open environment is that we provide that has led to the innovations of the most creative tech leaders of the world. >> martha: it was a great example of some of the things that have been combed out of facebook for just those reasons. some of them had to do with conservative thoughts. thank you very much, good to see you tonight. >> thank you.
>> martha: one may come back, the man who literally wrote the book on the facebook effect, david kirkpatrick goes behind the scenes of a social media empire and what he thinks really happened in there today. >> let's start with the user. here's what everybody's been trying to tell you and i say this gently. your user agreement sucks. [laughter] and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪
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>> martha: parking tonight as this continues to unfold on capitol hill, mark zuckerberg saying that artificial intelligence is going to lead the way to determine what you can and cannot see on facebook. imagine wrapping your head around that technology when congress is still trying to wrap their arms around what's been going on for the past decade. that went to a few uncomfortable moments when it came to facebook's functionality and how exactly all this works. watch. >> how do you sustain a business model in which users don't agree to your service? >> senator, we run out. >> i see. you don't have bundled permissions for how i can agree to what devices i may have contact with?
do you bundle that permission? >> how many data categories do restore, does facebook store? on the categories that you collect? >> senator, can you clarify what you mean? >> how many does facebook store? do you store any? >> senator, i'm not actually sure what that is referring to. >> martha: those are some uncomfortable moments. let's bring on so many who wrote a book on the subject, david kirkpatrick, author of "the facebook effect" ." it's not surprising. if i were sitting there questioning him, i have a hard time with some of the technology involved as well, but it seem like they were all talking right past each other. do you think that? >> some more than others. a lot of these technologies that play and tools in product design are quite complicated, especially for interactions that were 4 minutes each with each senator.
frankly, our senate in general as well as our legislator is generally not technologically literate enough. i think this was a little bit more of a show trial than anything. i don't blame them for their questions. i think he did a pretty good job answering. >> martha: you said you think facebook could signal the end of global democracy as we know it. and that these hearings are the beginning of a real sea change in the relationship it in the government and technology. explain. >> that's not exactly what i believe. it's a threat to democracy if these systems are not properly seen and overregulated. that's been proven and many, many countries where facebook has been egregiously manipulated by people who are using it illegally or dishonestly and facebook has not properly regulated that. there is a threat. it is democracy at risk right now? question i don't think so. it's countries like -- the main
point is, this is a global company operating at 190 countries and every single one, politics happens on its surface. we are relying on this commercial company to effectively regulate the public square including politics. that's just wrong. >> martha: in terms of how it changes, the regulation and what the impact is, once you open this can of worms, it may should have been opened a long time ago, it's going to change these companies in the future of them. >> i think that's healthy and one of the things i was quite impressed by and a little surprised by with zuckerberg today and i do know him fairly well, he was really showing tremendous openness to regulation. at one point, he promised one senator he would submit a list of regulations that he thought should apply to facebook. at another point, he said he thought the european approach had some merits and that's a big confession that you never hear
from american tech ceos, so he was taking major steps in this direction. >> martha: this was his moment to try to craft the conversation a little bit. >> privacy regulations definitely are going to come out of this, that's a healthy thing. the real issue is bigger. how does society at a global level deal with a global company that has all this power and even with the privacy laws, it's not going to really change the relationship. we need a system that gives them more consultancy, more interaction. otherwise i don't think facebook is stable for society. >> martha: good to see you tonight, david kilpatrick. >> everybody's going to pay a price. >> martha: a talk from president trump aimed at bashar al-assad. it is the united states about to unleash retribution as early as
tonight? general jack keane with analysis as the president warned strongmen in syria and russia. next. >> we can't tolerate a war criminal, we can't tolerate other people in this should be taken care of immediately. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home... even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl's orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you're killing it. dr. scholl's. born to move.
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>> martha: we could get an announcement any moment from the president regarding u.s. military action in syria. there are a suspected chemical attack spread the president canceled his trip to south america so he could remain at the white house as all of this develops. this is not sitting well with russia tonight, now threatening to "grave repercussions of the united states takes actions against shows their alba shod." ed henry joins us from the white house as we wait. >> dating back to the campaign, president trump vowed that he was going to change the practice of tipping off any kind of u.s. military action. any kind of movement, but they are sending strong signals that he is inching towards military action. today, the president spoke with theresa may.
the white house officials said both leaders condemned what they called the syrian president of a sods vicious disregard for human life. the president and prime minister agreed not to allow the use of chemical weapons to continue. vice president mike pence is now heading to peru because the president has canceled his trip to peru and colombia. likewise, the defense secretary james mattis now pulled out of a weekend trip to nevada. he has public lease of the u.s. is not ruling out military action. pentagon officials are calling out the russian military for banning u.s. drones. the pentagon says they are using countermeasures. listen. >> the president has been clear, we're working with our partners and allies and national security team to look at all options.
as you said, all options on the table, but are not getting ahead of anything the president may or may not do in response to what's taking place in syria. >> the response has to have a military component. bashar al-assad, we need to send a message to his enablers. iran and russia. >> tomorrow come out the uss harry truman is heading to the mediterranean on a preschedule deployment, but that will now employ seven warships with hundreds of cruise missiles. the u.s. navy launched 59 tomahawk cruise missiles at syria after another chemical weapons attack. that shows that right now, there is even more firepower. >> martha: we know of at least three suspected chemical attacks in syria this year alone and others in the previous years prompting a lot of conversation about the what the obama admin church and did and did not do to stop the asaad regime.
watch. >> the secretary release a statement on the remaining removal of chemical weapons in syria. all of the declared chemical weapons now are out of syria. >> martha: marie harf joins me now, she is the former state department spokesperson. marie, when you watch what has happened over the last several years, your thoughts on the assumption at that point that those chemical weapons have been cleared out of syria. >> looking that clip you just a plate, there was one word that was a very key and it's the word "declared." the 1300 metric tons of chemical weapons that they declared were removed. i would note that more chemical weapons that we went to war over in iraq. it very likely would have fallen into the hands of isis.
i say this honestly and openly, clearly the assad regime either kept some weapons and i didn't declare them or they kept the ability to produce more. clearly, not everything was out and now we are faced with a situation where because of that 2013 agreement, we were able to get a huge portion of the weapons out, but not all of them. president trump has a very serious decision to make and the next coming days. >> martha: we all remember the red line and president obama clearly stating that if that red line crossed, that as he put it a bunch of chemical weapons moving around, they would take action. the action that you discussed at the podium there was the substitute for actual military action. the belief that there chemical weapons have been cleared out. obviously we always have to assume that someone like assad is not necessarily going to declare what he has and leaving them in power. president obama said time and time again, he must go.
trusting his word that he got them all may have been a mistak mistake. >> it was in trust, we did destroy 1300 tons of chemical weapons is nothing -- no small feat. i think what we've seen from military action, and i supported president trump last year when he took that military action after the last attack. that also didn't stop president assad from using the chemical weapons he had left. there are no good answers here. i wish there were. these are all tough choices. we took the choice of getting out a huge amount of chemical weapons, particularly because of number of republicans in congress would not give president obama the authority to strike militarily. we asked them and they said no. now they're singing a different tune. again, it's taking military action, this latest attack wouldn't have happened. president trump has put down a lot of rhetoric which is
appropriate. now it's a question of what would he do? military action which i think is appropriate to match with a strategic plan to address this and not pull out before we're ready in syria because the russians and iranians will so that and it will get even worse. >> martha: here now, general jack keane and chairman of the institute of study for wire. it has been said, 24, 48 hours, we're likely to see some action for the president has said he doesn't like to telegraph when exec that will be. what do you think? >> is a question of moving the assets into place and getting ready to go. what happened a year ago, we had a measured, proportionate response from the equipment on it that had deliver the strike. the intent was to deter assad, that didn't work. it filled actually. he used chemical weapons again.
what we shouldn't do is another measured response, yet larger because this guy has made up his mind he's going to use chemical weapons for military purposes to get the desired effect he wants. what we have to do is stop the use of chemical weapons. by that, i mean we have to destroy all his capabilities of using those weapons. we are talking about rotary and fixed wing aircraft. were talking about airfield, aviation maintenance, aviation ammunitions. if he still has artillery delivered chemical weapons, which he used to have and some people think he does, until guys probably know for sure. we should take down his artillery as well. we have a complication. the russians have strategically placed technicians at all of these airfields with the thought that that would discourage the united states from conducting another attack on these airfields. they did it after the last attack a year echo. if we have until the russians
already, we should tell them something like this. "every single military base that syria owns in syria is vulnerable to a potential attack." we're not going to be responsible for what happens if you don't safeguard them. their pariahs in the international community. we have got to go after them in a public way and drag them in. it will make no difference to assad, but it will make a difference to putin. his public image is important to him. we have to really go after these guys in a public way. >> martha: the president come out last time he approved air strikes, he received a lot of support from the american people on that. 67% approving that move and we
all remember the dramatic video that followed of what happened in terms of the tomahawk missiles that were sent in. this would be a much larger operation. do you agree and then the question becomes what happens the next day in the week after that? >> first of all, i think it should be. whether it's like the last time, they wanted to take it down years ago which would be much more appropriate. people pushed back on that. i don't know what decisions the president has made, but yes, it would be a larger scale operation. we would be using standoff cruise medicines and other bombs, also from airplanes. if you want to take airfields out, we are running stealth bombers to do that because cruise missiles are good. i think what's coming out of the
mouth of the iranians and the russians is pure bluster. >> martha: russia and assad say these were not there chemical weapons. we have the video and i know you say we have very good tracking of the delivery system for these and we know exactly where they're coming from. your response to those that suggest perhaps this isn't what it looks like. >> that's rubbish and it's ignorance. we track every single aircraft that takes off from any field in syria. we track where it goes, we track when asked executing. we know what airplane that is. we have eyewitness accounts of that airplane dropping bombs on a building where chemical weapons impact of the people. those are verifiable things. then we do data analysis of the horrible photos we've seen come out match of the symptoms of those people with people who have had that in the past. our intelligence agencies verified that assad has used,
from helicopter attack again, a nerve agent. >> martha: general jack keane, thank you. still ahead tonight, how china is signaling that it may waive the white flag, at least to some extent when it comes to these terrorists. a fascinating, shifting in this issue. what does it really mean here? also the president's longtime lawyer report will be under investigation for the $130,000 payment, $150,000 payment to the trump foundation from a ukrainian all is dark. many are remembering that same goal is arc remained payment from the clinton foundation. mark eason and the panel weighs in next. ♪ long lasting.
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>> this is the most biased group of people, these people have the biggest conflicts of interest i've ever seen. they're not looking at the other side, they're not looking at the hillary clinton horrible things that she did and all of the crimes that were committed, they're not looking at all of the things that have happened that everybody is very angry about. i can tell you from the republican side and even the independent side. they only keep looking at us. >> martha: president trump lashing out at special counsel robert mueller saying that he is ignoring the clinton scandals among other things and now mueller's reported looking into a september of $216,150,000 donation to the trump foundation from a ukrainian -- the largest individual contributor to the clinton foundation. trace gallagher live and our west coast newsroom with more.
hi. speak with the man in question is victor pin chuck who his father and i was the president of ukraine from 1994-2005. his $150,000 donation to the trump foundation was and is in exchange for a talk to kiev. the donation was uncovered when the robert mueller investigation subpoenaed the trump organization. the legal aspects are having trouble finding a bombshell of his revelations because it appears to be both legal and common and it runs counter to any russian collusion argument considering victor pin chuck is hostile to vladimir putin donald trump was still considered a long shot to win the g.o.p. nomination much less the presidency. now there is the fact that he considers himself a friend of l and hillary clinton and has given the clinton foundation up to $25 million including
8.6 million while mrs. clinton was secretary of state. "the new york times" also reports that pinchuk used the private jet and payment from pinchuk to trump was limited by former clinton advisor and fox news contributor doug schon who you may recall pulled his report from hillary clinton and 2016 saying her presidency would be hobbled with scandals like the email scandal, which is speaking of double standards, the american spectator draws this parallel to the fbi's raid on trump attorney michael cohen. quoting here. " classified emails showed up on hillary's assistance husbands, anthony weiner's computer, who is in prison for pornographic interaction with a minor online. has a clinton foundation or huma abedin's home or hillary clinton's bathroom not been rated yet? no. and as for the $150,000 payment,
alan dershowitz calls it a fake story. >> martha: when you look at these two, what's abundantly clear is that these two situations have been treated completely differently. hillary clinton was treated with kid gloves and the investigation into donald trump is an door breaking down environment. mark and then zach. >> absolutely. i will say at the outset that the trump foundation or the clinton foundation should be taking money from oligarch's. you have to put this into perspective. donald trump took $150,000 for a speech to the security conference which is a conference
that the oligarch put on. the clinton foundation took up to $25 million from the same oligarch. he flew bill and hillary clinton around the world on his private jet. he invited bill clinton to a french ski resort for his 50th birthday and by the way, he paid bill and hillary clinton to speak at the same conference is donald trump. how can it be a conflict for donald trump to take this money and speak of this conflict mark conference when they were paid to speak at the same conference? >> martha: where these two investigations treated so very differently? >> i think you have to pick your stories. the original story from the white house was they fired fbi director james comey because the fbi was too hard and hillary clinton. now you guys are saying that hillary clinton was treated with kid gloves. you can't haveo pick one. she was either roasted over the coals which is why james comey was fired or she was -- that is the official reason from the white house about why fbi director james comey was fired.
>> martha: it was overall mishandling. >> the new report that's going to come out showed they were very, very hard -- i'm very much looking forward to it. it showed the fbi was very, very hard on hillary clinton. that's the only thing that's been leaked out. in this particular case, there are key differences between the donations. the trump donation was secret, the clinton foundation was transparent. it was listed on the website. the actual dollar amount was earmarked to fight hiv/aids. >> martha: perhaps neither one of these entities should have taken money at all. the point with where we're living at right now is that this
shows that there is a straying from this investigation that makes you wonder what is robert mueller interested in in that transaction? >> i don't know, but we'll find out eventually. this is what happens. they follow trails and they see where they lead. let's keep in mind that there is an active fbi investigation into the clinton foundation that's not getting a lot of press attention. it was restarted last year by the fbi because the clinton justice department turned down evidence in 2016 to accelerate the investigation. there is a very serious investigation. keep in mind that this oligarch when he was giving money to the clinton foundation, it was while hillary clinton was secretary of state.
we know thanks to citizens united who released her emails that they were reporting back to her on her meetings with them in those emails. she said she never saw it once, but then the emails came out that he was on the guest list for a dinner at her home. this is also while he was doing trade with iran and he was in trouble with the commerce department for still dumping. there was a lot more serious things going on with the clinton foundation. >> martha: the investigation has been reopened. zach, final thoughts to you. >> i think people need to get a new hobby. you guys beat hillary clinton. it's time to move on, go for a walk, go get a massage. do whatever you've got to do to fill the void in your souls. i understand why you're focused on hillary clinton because he cannot defend donald trump, but seriously, it's getting a little
sad. >> martha: do you think it's fair for the attorneys door to be knocked down? >> he's being accused of some fairly serious criminal activity, so yes, i believe criminals should have their doors knocked down if there is evidence that they're going to destroy evidence which is what we see here. these guys are criminals. >> martha: case closed. zach, thank you very much. good to see you, mark. coming up next, is chinese president xi responding to president trump's actions on trade? how the so-called trade war could hit some of the president's biggest supporters. the longtime soybean farmer gives us his take on how he feels about all this. it's fascinating and it is next. ♪ insurance that won't replace the full value of your new car? you're better off throwing your money
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>> martha: chinese president xi announcing a pretty big move. he says he will significantly cut his country's automobile import tariff which is something president trump has been wanting very much. this comes hours after president trump ramped up the rhetoric in the trade fight tweeting this " " when a car is as sent to china
from the united states, the tariff is 25%. does that so make free or fair trade? no, it sounds like stupid trade and it's been going on for years." late this afternoon, president trump tweeting that he's happy with the progress that is being made so far with china. who stands to lose the most in the trade war? some say it is american farmers. specifically soybean farmers who reside largely and parts of the country that voted for president trump in 2016. that is an intentional move on the put of the chinese. what many americans don't know is how much their livelihood depends of these soybean farmers to produce most of the feed used to raise chicken, pork, beef, and fish. here now, a longtime soybean farmer who served as director of the indiana soybean alliance. it's good to happy with us tonight, thank you very. as this stands now, what is the impact on u.s. farmers like you?
northwestern indiana, my three brothers and our families, we appreciate the chance to be with you this evening. trade is a big deal process farmers. we have the ability to raise crops and good infrastructure to get these crops to market and our organizations have worked very diligently to get the needs assessed of our customers around the world. we can produce and be a reliable supplier. >> martha: what's the impact of these tariffs on you? how would you be hurt by this? >> there is a potential that we would lose a great deal of our market. we do export a third of our
beans to china, so it's an extremely big deal for us. >> martha: doesn't change how you feel about president trump? >> i think you're taking a wait and see attitude on that. we have a great amount of confidence in our secretary of agriculture, sonny purdue and trade is a difficult many hurdls the may have a lot of confidence with government officials who are charged with doing here tonight. we hope you'll come back as this moves along and tell us what your thinking on the road. quick break and we'll be right back with more of "the story" ."
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>> martha: thought is our story for tonight. we're heading to d.c., we'll be there for day two of the zuckerberg hearing. stick around, we'll see you tomorrow night from d.c. tucker carlson coming up next. ♪ >> tucker: good evening and welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." robert miller's investigation, you remember, was supposed to be about russian collusion, the hacking of our election. obviously there's a new goal now, what is it? brit hume and jonathan turley will join us to spell that out. mark zuckerberg spent hours on capitol hill today taking questions from senators about facebook's role in the 2016 election in an american society more generally. will talk to one of the senators was there and spoke to zuckerberg and what it meant. but first, brad larsen who covers tech for our show has big moments from