tv Outnumbered Overtime With Harris Faulkner FOX News May 18, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT
>> harris: attorney general ken paxton joining us. i know the governor of texas is headed there, he had a conversation with the president a short time ago, you talk about the resources that you're sending there as well. i'm joined on the couch, attorney general, by melissa francis and she has a question for you. >> melissa: do you know anything about those explosive devices? it seems like if you're sending people down in that direction, that's the part of the story that is still outstanding, as the you be known. they have asked people -- the unknown. they have asked people to call in if they see anything. what have you heard? >> so, nothing that i can share, all can i tell you is that is the process that law enforcement is going through, just clearing the building, and making sure that they have everything out of there. then doing an analysis, obviously will come over the next couple of days. >> melissa: as the chief law enforcement officers a lot of parents and people in the community are looking to you and saying could you have done more,
why hasn't the state or law enforcement in the state done more to protect kids. is that fair and how do you respond to them? >> i think they have a very reasonable and fair question to ask. i think a lot of it comes down to local resources and local schools, and local churches and businesses being willing to put some of their resources in hiring professionals or training as many people in their schools as they possibly can to defend. there's not enough federal agents, not enough state agents, not enough local police to defend against these random acts. >> harris: before we let you go, one last question, is there anything that you can share or that you've learned or that you would want to know about the suspects that they say they have. they have a person of interest. >> and those are both, both accurate. and, no, right now all i can say is we're in the process of trying to learn as much about these people as possible. >> melissa: attorney general
paxton, appreciate the time, pray for the state have texas, and the children of santa fe. >> thank you, so appreciate it. >> melissa: fox news alert, police say between 8 and 10 people are dead after a school shooting outside houston, texas. we now shift to outnumbered overtime. most of the victims killed are reported to be students. >> harris: this incident fast developing at a high school in santa fe, texas. police a short time ago saying explosive devices were found on campus and nearby off campus and they are warning people who live in the area to please proceed with caution. i was talking with the attorney general of the great state of texas and he said that takes everybody looking out for suspicious boxes, things that are in places that they shouldn't be. it takes everybody at this point. this all dpan when with its say the gunman believed to be a student burst into an art classnd began firing. with its describe the terrifying moments this way.
. the fire alarm got pulled, i thought it was popping or something, like an sploes. then when i heard the next four shots, it's not an explosion, this is gunshots. >> i shouldn't be going through this, it's my school. this is my daily life. i should not experience that. i'm so scared to even go back. it's just not something that you should feel throughout the day being scared. especially somewhere, where we say the pledge of allegiance. i don't know, it's just shouldn't feel like this. >> harris: laura engle is live in the new york newsroom. last we saw you, you were telling us about explosive devices. now that's been confirmed by the chief of police. >> it has. and as we just had that latest news conference, harris, as many as 10 have lost their lives at santa fe high school. that's just about 30 miles southeast of houston. the gunman has been arrested, another person of interest has been detained. and now the school as you
mentioned has been evacuated, due to multiple explosive devices. harris, we also want to let you know we have just received confirmation from the school district that those possible explosive devices were found inside the school. we have got them inside the school, and around. harris county sheriff saying one person in custody, a second detained, one of those under the age of 18. several people are in the hospital at least one in surgery, according to doctors who just gave a press conference last hour. police say the shooting took place between 7:30 and 7:45a.m. local time in san if a fe. again, we gave that you locator 30 miles south east of houston. students describing the fear and chaos that unfolded after they heard the sound of down fire as they sat inside their first periodle class this morning. >> i heard that my friend got shot in the art hall. and as soon as the alarms went off, everybody started running outside. and next thing you know,
everybody looks and you hear boom, boom, boom. and i just ran as fast as i could. rnl one student told reporters his friend saw the shooter pull the fire alarm. that student heard shots. still trying to confirm who may have pulled the fire alarm. another student said they thought it was a fire drill at first, but then heard a teacher say start running. another student told our fox affiliate he saw the shooter with a shotgun and a pistol. students have been watching this, seen lining up with their arms up, having their bags searched as parents raced to the school to see if their kids were okay. the 31st time this year where a gun was discharged on a school campus in the united states, fourth fatal shooting of 2018 at a school. casey sigel is en route to the scene and will bring more throughout the day and updates in the newsroom. >> harris: we will come back to you as the news parents as well. thank you very much. a lot is happening now in just
the last few minutes. of course the focus on the explosive devices. and laura, just gave us a little bit more detail. found inside the school, and around the perimeter, and then police have said off campus they want people in a wider sense looking for the explosive devices. and how do you do that, exactly? joe card nail, rehaired nypd lt. and commander. joe are you with us? >> yes, i am. >> harris: i tell you the explosive situation, i was talking the attorney general for the state of texas, tough if you don't have a lot of detail. he put it this way, looking for boxes and things that shouldn't be where they are or packages that shouldn't be where they are. can you depend on the public in this instance, do you think people are acute enough to help out in this way? >> well, harris, with all that's going on for the past sum of years and the past decade, yes, i think you can depend on the public for this.
you know, law enforcement with conjunction with your citizens, it doesn't exist without them. it's such a key part for us. and people, you know, starting to realize, if i see something i have to say something. if you aren't spenting that package, then call up and say i received a package. but that's on a local level. when you deal with a school, it's how did these devices get into the school. which is more troublesome than anything else. the fact that they have another person in custody, this person may have worked with them. might be another incident of domestic violence, domestic terrorism. i disagree with mr. paxton, this is domestic terrorism. it is the same thing with the mcveighs and everybody else. they want to draw attention to whatever cause they're defending or standing for and they're going to do it m a way to get their fame through the media, through everybody else, and in this instance we have somebody that they can question and say,
hey, where were you going with this. and put a rhyme or reason to it. >> harris: interesting point. some of these we have not, that person is deceased or maybe incapacitated mentally, who knows. each one has its own hallmark and everything is different. the reason i ask about the public is this, we as a wide republic are asked to do a lot with very little detail. when you talk with officials and they can't tell you about the suspect, the person of interest, i respect and understand the urgency with which they are working with information and don't want to necessarily put that in the layman's hands. but we're asked to do something, we need specifics. and even the attorney general says this is somewhat like what happened with the austin, texas bombing situation with the packages. we're going to depend on people to help us out. i'm just wondering at this point, and i know i've heard people say in your position, not a lot you can do with prevention.
what happens moments after the shooting starts? >> right after the shooting, naturally chaos, especially pulling a fire abathroom. this person knew -- pulling a fire awlrm. he knew he had to accomplish his goal. armed officers, running to it or trying to get students safely into a room. it's just chaotic. which is what you have to do as a community and as a school system, you have to minimize that. if possible. do you that in conjunction with law enforcement. the fact that you have the public asking what do we do, you're 100% right, they do need to know what they're looking for. however, the police department and the authorities are charged with, you know, with burdensome task of identifying what is the information that has to go out there. you don't want to put the wrong information out there. you have everybody going out there looking for the wrong information. >> harris: absolutely.
>> you have to be specific. that's the thing about putting information out there. on a need-to-know basis. sometimes people don't need to know every little detail that's going into this. just the most important things. naturally if you have an active shooter you want to tell them, we are looking for this person in this car or dressed like this or whatever it is and get that out there right away. but as far as the investigation, i think as it progresses they can let out the information that they're sure of to the press. >> harris: appreciate your expertise today, thank you. want to bring in texas congressman roger williams, now. and great to have you and get get your perspective. you are someone who has seen the other end of these things, you were shot when a gunman opened fire during the congressional baseball game last year. congressman williams, today, a tough day for your state. but also with your experience, want to get your remarks. >> well, it is a tough day, and our hearts go out to all of the
victims and their families. i somewhat, with experience i had last year, i can imagine with these young people, what they went through, the teachers, it is chaotic. and if words can't describe what they're going through right now. the best thing everybody can do is just pray that things will begin to get back to normal. total tragedy. we have got to begin to understand there's a point in time we need to talk about securing our schools and keeping our teachers and children safe. >> harris: i want to talk about the community of santa fe. we get so far afield with the forensics of these things we don't talk about the people. having suffered what you did at the congressional baseball game being shot, i think it is time to just maybe take a pause and talk about this community outside of houston. what can you tell us about santa fe? that school had 1,400 students enrolled there. >> well, it's a great community, a growing community, i spent time there when i was secretary of state of texas.
wonderful people. all-american people. you know it's a community now that will be brought much closer together. also they're going to need to have a lot of prayers. they need to have a lot of people, counsel those there, the victims, the families. i must tell you, i think at the end of the day, everybody would tell you it's life changing experience for all of these folks, and certainly that community. and the school. >> harris: how so is it life-changing? i'm just, i look at these kids, they don't of the life experience yet to balance this. >> well, i tell you, what it does for a lot of people, did for me, reminded us how short life is and how precious it is. frankly, that god is in control. and i don't know any more than you, go to that, and receive people's prayers and their blessings. and begin to build back even stronger. but, again, we need to remind the perpetrators that, we are
going to do something to keep the schools from being targets. >> harris: i can only imagine the discussions on capitol hill. and i ask you about that, you have a unique perspective. you actually have been part of the victim, you know, a horrible club that people say they're in, of the victim club where you've been shot. your perspective is forever changed. what are those conversations like? >> well, it is. nd like i say, harris, unless you have been through what these children have been through, it's hard to explain. it is. and you have to begin to work your way out of it. there's going to be a lot of counselors, a lot of people that have issues, the rest of their life. i know myself, i mean, when i hear gunfire it affects me now where it didn't used to. but more importantly, these young men and women, their young lives have been changed. and we've got to comfort them a lot of love has to be
administered to this community. >> harris: the attorney general ken paxton joined me a few moments ago, now i have on congressman roger williams. just to kind of echo his remarks, if you can, maybe yours are different, about where we go from here. what can we learn to keep this from happening? i know the random nature of violence. but this has been seven of these since the beginning of 2018. >> there's no question about it, and i think we have to, those of us in government, state and federal and local, need to get serious about securing our schools. i know up here, i've -- after the shooting at parkland, i talked to secretary devoss, we have a plan, a bill that we filed, that would allow the schools like santa fe to individually see what their needs are as far as securing the schools and apply for a grant from the secretary -- department of education. they have a $63 billion budget that would cover a lot of
security for our schools. not money to go to the state but money to go to the individual schools to protect our children. we have that out there, and this next week i'll press hard for my colleagues to get on this. so we can do something about securing these schools. much sooner than later. we see what happens when we don't. >> harris: the president has spoken with the governor of texas, he will be landing at the site or near. there and going to the school. we understand in short order. so that's happening at this point as well. governor abbott. to hear you talk about taking, a, this is the president who has wanted to and who has made that funding available, just the last word about that from you. >> we have $63 billion in department of education. >> harris: a lot of money. >> a lot of money. doesn't have to be allocated, we don't have to break the budget, it's already there. and i think the biggest roeflt department of education is to secure our schools, protect our teachers, protect our children. and i'm very passionate about
this, just from the fact we talk, i've been through this. and we need to address this immediately and we have a very simple bill that will allow us to do this. i've talked to secretary devoss, she knows what we want to do. i think we need to move forward. i will be pressing it this next week. >> harris: we will be watching for you making that news. we certainly appreciate you sxroining us today -- joining us today. congressman roger williams from texas. >> thank you. >> harris: 15-year-old leila butler is a san if a fe high school sophomore. she was sit in chemistry class when the fire abathroom went off. leila wis us by phone. so glad you are okay. >> thank you. >> harris: tell me what happened. >> i was sitting in chemistry class when the fire alarm went off, we didn't hear any gunshots from where i was in the school. but we all heard the fire alarm, we got up and exited the school. as soon as we got outside we saw teachers and our administrators
such as assistant principal and principal telling us to run and get across highway 6, just get as far away from the school as we could. and we all just, we knew that something was much more wrong than just a fire. we immediately saw 15 cop cars and sheriffs, immediately just heading to the school. we just had no idea what was happening. >> harris: did you hear anyone saying anything, screaming anything? >> at that point it was just all of us, as students, talking to each other, trying to understand what was happening. because we could tell that it wasn't just a fire. we all thought it was a fire, fire drill. but we knew immediately as we got outside it wasn't what we thought it was. >> harris: you saw that response. inside the school, was there a sense that the fire alarm went off and that drew more people into the hallway, tell me about what was going through everybody's mind as they -- you do fire drills. but you said that once you got out you knew it was different. what was your first the reaction, run into the hallway,
what are you doing? >> well, as soon as the fire alarm went off we stood up and exited as normal, we have had fire drills before. we have had many. we knew what to do. when we got outside you could see that our admin and teachers knew something wasn't right. and they didn't show it at all in the way they were acting, made sure that we were all safe. but you could tell they knew something was happening. >> harris: have you been able to, i know they sent to you a reunification site to meet with family and all of that. tell me that journey once you leave. you talked about running across highway 6. you guys had to get out of there, then go into a roadway. tell me about the journey, the escape. >> well, as soon as they started telling to us run across highway 6 we ran across and they told to us get away from the road to get into the ditches. we stood there for a few minutes. then we had teachers escorting us to behind the mechanic shop that is across the straight that faces the high school.
we stood there for quite some time, filling out papers, do head counts and see who was there. after a while they formed us into two lines and we walked down highway 6 towards our junior high campus to be where we could meet with our families and know we were safe at that point. >> harris: wow. leila i don't want you to necessarily mention any names nothing has been confirmed. what we learned from parkland and other places, i'm so sorry this has happened to you, sometimes people have april idea who might do this sort -- have an idea who might could this sort of thing. were students talking about this? >> everyone had no idea of who it could have been. we just, there was no way we could have fathomed any idea of some one who could do this in such a loving town. >> harris: where was the art class in conjunction to where you were? >> the art class is on the opposite side of the building from where i was. i was in the side of building where the academics are, the fine arts are on the other side.
i wasn't anywhere near where this happened. >> harris: this campus seems huge with a lot of students. it must have been difficult to get everybody out at once. >> i mean, i personally think that we're a pretty small school. but due to how many fire drills we have had before, we thought this was like that and we just immediately took care of it and got outside. we knew if it was real that this would be our safety. we all know how to handle these pretty well. >> harris: have you kind of had drills at other times? i have children and they have hadterror drills, they have had unfortunately now gun plan drills. has this school, had you talked about doing that, practiced that? it is a little bit different in terms of how you exit. >> well, about three months ago in february we had a threat come in, that was going into the police that were saying we were going to have a school shooting. at that point we went into a lockdown. it ended up being a false threat.
this was different because instead of going into a lockdown like we would for a school shooter, our fire alarm was pulled, we exited the building immediately. i don't know if that would have been more effective. but either way it's a tragedy. >> harris: my heart goes out to you, leila butler, sophomore at santa fe. has anybody talked with you about what happens next, are they making counselors available, returning to school for that process in particular? we'll put off going back to school at this point. >> well, at this point, we have, our last week of school, week after next. we haven't heard from the school how it's going to work if we're going back to school on monday or what. but local communities, i'm sorry, local areas have been reaching out and we're going to be having vij its, anyone who -- vigils, anyone who needs help, santa fe has been very uplifting and helpful that we all have some one if we need it.
>> harris: leila butler, you are brave and we are grateful, i'm so glad in a you're okay. thank you for elg us in detail about what happened today at santa fe high school, i know it's hard. take care. >> thank you. >> harris: let's reset the scene and let you know what's going on right now. there's a school shooting, this morning, as students describe a gunman with a shotgun walking into art class. you just heard young leila talking about where that was in conjunction with where she was across the campus. they knew something was going on. the fire alarm was pulled, and students were streaming out of school. on on the they are side of campus from leila and her las mates a gunman in art class opened fire. we have confirmed 8 to 10 mostly students are dead. upwards of 12 maybe more injured. at least 3 are hospitalized right now. and we know that the president talked about this earlier.
we're going to bring on a congressman from the district moments from now. but let's hear from president trump first. . >> president trump: unfortunately i have to begin by expressing our sadness and heartbreak over the deadly shooting at san if a fe high school in texas just -- santa fe high school. we're closely monitoring the situation and federal authorities are coordinating with local officials. this has been going on too long in our country. too many years, too many decades now. we grieve for the terrible loss of life and send our support and love to everyone affected by this absolutely horrific attack to the students, families, teachers, and personnel at santa fe high. we're with you in this tragic hour and we will be with you
forever. my administration is determined to do everything in our power to protect our students, secure our schools, and keep weapons out of the hands of those who pose a threat to themselves and to others. >> harris: that was the president talking about what has happened at santa fe high school, the outside of houston, the area here, in harris county. let's bring in now congressman randy weber, who represents the district in which the school sits. congressman, thank you for being with me. and i just want to press in a little bit, i talked with a student, a sophomore from the school moments ago. she was giving us details about the horrific experience that she had this morning. your remarks? >> well, i tell you, harris, we were notified this morning shortly after it happened. we've been in contact with all
of the local law enforcement officials, sheriff, mayor of santa fe, i'm getting a flight as quickly as i can to get there. santa fe is a great community, salt of the earth, high school about 1,400 students. and the actual city, probably about 12,500 people last census. great community, shock, dismay, awe, sadness, thoughts and prayers for the victims and the families. i have put out a call to the utmd in galveston saying do they need any resources from us up here. my same comments to the mayor, the sheriff, what can we do to help trying to get there as quickly as we can to be a resource. >> harris: as you head into that i would wonder what they're telling you about the danger that still lurks, they found explosive devices inside the school and around it. >> they did. i've been in contact with law enforcement, this is a disturbed individual. he's got a couple of different addresses. and we've heard the reports, as
you have, i'm sure, a shotgun and other weapons reported in the actual act. i do want to say at this point, our gratitude to our first responders, unbelievable gratitude to the first responders, thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families. we know that this guy has apparently by all outward appearances, mentally disturbed from the reports i'm hearing. and we don't skoupt the fact that there are bobby traps, ieds, whatever you want to call them, positioned in different locales, we're monitoring that closely. >> harris: interesting way of putting it. we were talking about, trying to learn about, what would be wo these explosive devices have been put there for. what was the strategy behind that. but when you talk about a bobby trap, it's also noteworthy they would be outside of the school. you talk about the mentally disturbed it inure. this is something that we have come back to with mass shootings time and time again recently with these.
what is the conversation on capitol hill right now about doing something about that. we saw in florida, some things fell through the tracks. . there's ban lot of conversation about it. there will be more conversations to be had about this. that is one of those things, there's an old saying, i'm sorry don't remember where it came from, if you see something say something. with social mediate way it is, you see people, students probably, who knew this individual, there may have been teachers, instructors, coaches, law enforcement officials that handled this person. i don't know. the point if you see something say something. >> harris: they did in parkland unfortunately it didn't work out. the young woman i talked with, young student, only 15, leila butler, said when she gathered with students after this happened different from parkland is that no one had any idea who might have done this. but what you are describing is that disturbed individual, we want to press in with you,
congressman, we have had this person described as a student as well. >> well, that's what i understand, too, again harris, this is unfolding. we are getting a lot of reports. i've been in contact, as i said, with a lot of the local law enforcement officials. some of it is unconfirmed. i heard your report of, i think, 8 of the 10 confirmed fatalities. the santa fe school district police officer was in a really bad way, they're trying to save that officer right now. so we're praying for that officer. so this is kind of the very fluid situation unfolding. but, again, our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families. we're saying in a situation like this, social media what it is, people in and around the situation like this, if they see something please bring it to the attention, don't take anything for granted. too many young looifls at stake, too many young lives lost, if people see something say something. >> harris: congressman randy weber as you head home to your
district our prayers and thoughts are with you. appreciate it. we know the governor is going there as well. and do you know if, you will, perhaps meet at the site, what is the plan? we have some leadership headed in that direction. >> well, i understand senator cruz is already there, i'm trying to get there as quickly as high flight will allow. where they're going to meet i don't know. i've been in contact with the mayor, they're all on the ground, we're trying to get there as well to help. >> harris: congressman weber, thank you very much. joining me now is a former member of the fbi joint terrorism task force, steve rogers. and at times when you and i have talked about these sorts of things that have happened, you want to know the latest in the details so that you can immediately start to put it together. can i add something to your pin? >> yes. >> heather: i interviewed leila butler, a sophomore at the school. she gave me a detail i hadn't
heard in the same way before. i said without naming a name would you have had any idea who would have done this. she said no. she said however three months ago we had a threat come in, and our school went into lockdown because i said have you practiced anything like this before, trained for it. she talked about how this was a false threat. and what made today so different from their original reaction to the lockdown and all of that with that. and how they would act with some one on campus with a gun, somebody had pulled, we're told the gunman, based on with its, had pulled a fire alarm. you have all of that. your expertise tells what you? >> harris as we quite often see, when the forensics investigation is completed on this computer equipment, i pads, phones, electronic equipment, the police are going to find out a lot. over a period of time this individual may have been posting tips, posting some threats.
we may find out that more students as they come forward will say, yeah, i remember him saying this, saying that. there's something haunting me, something that you have said over and over and over again, and we sat here many times, you asked the same question of elected officials what are we doing about it, what are you doing capitol hill. the time has come for committee hearings, for studies and assessments to end. the time for action is now. we've talked about, parents ask me this morning in my old school district, what are we do to do. short term, police officers, well trained police officers have to be put in the schools and metal detectors have to be put in the schools. in the immediate short term. long term, we do have to look at the mental health issues, more so we have to get the parents and we have to get parents to understand like the congressman said, if you see something, even sense something, a lot of times, our instincts -- >> harris: but they did in
parkland, we knew that the suspect and all of that wasn't allowed to come on campus with a certain kind of a big bag that, sort of thing a lot of information. >> we did. >> harris: but you didn't protect the target, necessarily. although you had school resource officers, unfortunately from the video might not have done much. >> it's a shame, a tragedy, but you had an armed officer in illinois yesterday, the day before, who saved a lot of lives. >> harris: yes. >> this officer shot today, i believe there was an officer shot. >> harris: you heard congressman weber say he's fighting for his life. she was shot close to the chest, lost a significant amount of blood. he's critical. >> he engaged the suspect. imagine the he wasn't there how many students would have been shot. we have to put an end to, again, the committee hearings and studies and assessments, take action. >> harris: you think we need to know what we need to know? >> we need to know, and we know, there's been blood shed in schools across the country
unnecessary, because we, whether elected officials or society in general, have failed to respond the way we should respond. that is protect, use every means necessary to protect our students. >> harris: this speaks to what you're saying, earlier in the program i spoke with congressman roger williams. who was part of that congressional baseball practice, and was shot during that. and he says his life is forever changed. one of the things he says he's going on do next week is push the bill. he reached out to secretary of, education secretary, to talk about how you spend that $63 billion that's sitting there now with education. and he says you have got to protect the targets. what is step one? >> step one. >> harris: you got the money. >> step one, people should be flooding their state legislatures in particular the state as well as congress, with demands to bring police officers into school. there's not going to be a wild west in the schools. i was cop for 38 years. i went to schools every day.
>> melissa: >> harris: you hear from people it's going to be this way. >> for some reason they fear there's going to be untrained people in the schools with guns. there's just a lot of unnecessary. nothing to fear but fear itself as roosevelt said. we need to take the action necessary and that action is get cops in our schools as a first step. >> harris: metal detectors, bulletproof glass? some of the schools have these things. >> yes, but not all of them. what's the downside? i ask people against this, what is the down side to have trained officers in the school, to confront an individual and engage them strategically. >> harris: steve rogers, thank you, i know your expertise is terrorism. i had the coverage a.g. pass ton, are we in the place to call these domestic terror. >> thank you. >> harris: ted williams, former d.c. police detective, one thing i love about talking with ted
williams he'll continue to scoop up information since the last time i spoke with him. what have you learned in the last hour? >> unconfirmed but this person who went into the school may well have had a trench coat they were wearing, that very well may explain the concealment of any weapon or weapons. i have to find it, and i find it difficult to believe, harris, if you have 8 to 10 individuals who have been shot that it was as the result of having just a sawed-off shotgun. i would have to believe that there was more than that one weapon, or possibly used to shoot those unfortunate students and other individuals in that art class. >> harris: you know, ted, in terms of weaponry and i was looking down at my notes, congressman randy weber, who is the congressman in that district was on just a couple of minutes
ago. he gave me some details, one of the things i wrote down, was he mentioned the shotgun. then he said other weapons. previously in our coverage i know that it was suggested that perhaps one of those weapons might have been a handgun. but what you're saying is you doubt it could have just been that one weapon. >> absolutely. and you listen to him carefully, i also listened to that interview, harris. and something else, another nug thaet he brought out, he said -- nugget, he said that the shooter had quote unquote several addresses that they were looking at. something else that he said, was that he believed that the student was mentally disturbed. that congressman there certainly would be in contact with individuals on the ground down there, and it's more likely than not that his information is accurate about the person being possibly mentally disturbed and also the fact that the person had more than one address. but then you think about it, if
this is a student, why would a student have more than one address. all of those things were crossing my mind. >> harris: who knows, there could be a wide range of divorced parents, no way to say nlrb we get the details. you're saying these are touch points where you put focus, talk about social media. are we in a place right now where that's now reflectionively where -- reflectively where officers go. >> absolutely. right now they're going through what we define as a profile of the shooter and also they're trying, others have said, trying to determine if there are any accomplices. when you walk into a classroom, and possibly have what is at this stage said to be a shotgun, normally, if you have a shotgun or you get one or two shots unless it's one of these shot guns that has an automatic trigger. >> harris: i have to step in,
ted, we have a hospital briefing that we understand is getting underway. we'll bring you back. let's go to texas, school shooting hospital briefing. >> yes, we are level two trauma center. >> what does that mean to prepare for mass casualties? >> so we do, essentially, a mock mass casualty to where we get the services prepared, the staff prepared, lab, doctors, nurses, teks to prefair for situations like this. we will actually call patients overhead as though they were real patients shall go into the room and act a as if there's a real patient, treating live patients. >> you feel that played a role this morning? >> absolutery. -- absolutely. >> tell us how you think the morning went. >> it went really well, right, so when essentially practice makes perfect with these types of mock trials. we're preparing for the real thing. and so during practice, we make sure everybody is there.
we run through the motions, essentially, just like we would, like this morning. >> patients that have been here here, can you describe how they're doing emotionally? >> you know, specifically i can't tell, i'm pretty sure they're all pretty rattled going through something like this. >> you said all are students? >> i believe so, yes, ma'am. >> you train for this, but what was it like having to go through the real thing today? >> you know, you can never really emotionally prepare for the real thing. until it happens. i have to say, as emergency physicians, gunshot wound victims are not foreign to us. we see this throughout our training. we are knee there, we know what to do, we've done it before. >> how emotionally rewarding was it to see parents connect with children for the first time, not knowing exactly what the status of their child was? >> harris: we're going to step
away from lake regional where they're updating the patients that they have seen there. we know that there were upwards of 12 people injured, they went to different hospitals. we brought you an update from utmd where the resource police officer was taken and he is in surgery in critical condition right now. we have had congress people talk about it, to the dock torsion getting choked up. he was -- doctors talking about it. lost a significant amount of blood from the shot in the arm. still waiting to hear how he may have engaged the shooter but at close range. we're watching for him. as we get updates and briefings we'll bring them to you. i have a doctor by my side, republican senator rand paul, grew up 40 minutes from the shooting scene. in fact his nephew was the principal at santa fe high school until just a couple of months ago. >> a couple of months ago. this is close to home, i was talking with family members that are upset thinking about it. because my nephew knew kids at
the school and still knows the teachers there, may well have known the people who tried to defend them. i just, we keep hearing about these things time after time. and some of us want there to be something done. we need to do something. i think the first thing we should do, there needs to be an announcement by every school district we're going to defend our children. and that we're not going to have a sign outside that says we're defenseless. that's the problem, we do have these hom i sigh dal or crazy or -- hom i sigh dal or crazy kids but they aren't so disturbed they're going to shoot up the sheriff's office. they're showing up where there is no self-defense. the nation needs to wake up and we need to make every superintendent, every principal should be right now thinking i'm going to make an announcement tomorrow that i'm not going to leave our kids undefended. >> harris: it hit me from what you're saying. we talk about this, and maybe he'll turned out to be adult age. but this is a student of the school. >> yes.
>> harris: potentially. this is a child. and with your connection through your nephew having been a principal there, he may have even known this young man, he only left a couple of months ago. >> yes. >> harris: that puts a different sort of touch on this. because these are children. and that's what we felt in parklapped. when you see something say something in a broad sense, we live in new york, terrorism, heightened sensitivity. but sometimes with children not everybody displays in the same way. there will be finger pointing. >> we get distracted. we talk about something that republicans and democrats disagree with. >> harris: how do we do that? >> on gun control. >> harris: i mean you not me. those on the hill. >> instead of saying why don't we say eights country we aren't going to leave our kids defenseless. every hollywood actor that hates guns has armed body guards defending them. they hate guns unless the guns defend them. announce tomorrow and encourage everybody who protects our kids,
suchts, principals, superintendents, school boards, announce we're not going to leave our kids defenseless. we are going to defend our schools from crazy people with guns. >> harris: police officers have told me just in a broader sense that i've interviewed, you have to start to treat schools the same way that you would any other target m society. they are soft targets, you aren't protecting them like hard targets. >> we have such mass communication, everybody sees everything. there's always been a phenomenon of copycat killers. everybody sees everything. everyone is seeing mass shootings. we have a country of 330 million peep. it takes a fraction of a fraction of a percent of crazy people. maybe 100% of people are crazy enough to see this. we see a shooting, 100 of them at your school, we need to be -- to defend our schools. >> harris: i shared this with the audience earlier, maybe not in as much detail, seven school
shootings appear to be intentional. that's different from the 31 times that guns have been discharged on campuses for a sundry of other motivations or reasons. seven that we know of. fourth fatal shooting at a school this year. some of the numbers as you know, parkland 17 dead, 12 injured, daunting. not the only one in january. benton, kentucky, marshall county, kentucky. >> my state. >> harris: right. january 23, two dead, 15 injured. >> right. >> harris: high number there. >> it's two-fold what we need to do. we need to say our schools are no longer going to be defenseless and we need to actively troy to stop children or kids with psychiatric disorders that make them violent. there was a story the parkland shooter, 58 opportunities at which he could have been arrested before this and nobody did their job. >> harris: the day that it was happening, it was 39. so apparently there have been --
>> they found more. >> harris: and they've gone deeper. >> they have also found one time he was assigned and should have gone before a judge and he was assigned three days in a certain detention. if you don't show up you are supposed to be incarcerated. he didn't show up and nobody bothered to do their job and follow up on the fact in a he didn't adhere to his punishment. >> harris: fright nipping. then moments ago, congressman randy weber. >> know him well. >> harris: told us about the beautiful community. and sharing, too, about how you deal with the disturbed individuals in your community. and he was saying that's what we think we have, we have a disturbed individual. a young disturbed individual with two different addresses. a detective williams, ted williams was saying you have to start to ask questions about this young man personal life at this point. >> randy weber replaced my father, my father represented this district, this is my dad's congressional district. we know the area well.
just down the road from us. and it's a small community. couple thousand people probably live in santa fe. the county probably a few more. a small town. i'm sure everybody knows everybody in that community. it will be doubly sad, it's not an impersonal thing, it will be very, very personal. >> harris: personal for all of us in america. when i heard that child, leila butler tell me they had to figure out how to get to highway 6 to cross the highway running to get away from the school, it's personal. >> i've been shot at, i was at the baseball field when we were shot at. first you have to figure out where's it coming from, who's shooting, is there one shooter or more. you aren't sure even if the beginning what side of the building or tree to get on. so it is a harrowing thing. for kids more so, because they have an experience -- they haven't experienced as many things. >> harris: as a cometor, you hear -- as a doctor, you hear from sources and police, the
other weapons that we're learning about, but a shotgun. what does that do to the body? >> well, you know, one it scatters. a lot of people can be shot with one blast of a shotgun. the pellets penetrate everywhere. you can be shot with 15 bull frets from one blast if they're close enough, one person could be penetrated 15 times. they're devastating from a short range. a shotgun can be. we talk about all of this, we're going to ban ar-15s. well they're more high powered and you can shoot more rapidly but a shotgun it is equally devastating from ten yards, is 5 yards away. >> harris: in an art class, probably not 10 yards. >> yes, devastating. this gets back to the whole thing of people want to say we're going to ban guns. ban shotguns, every gun? you can't do that. what we ought to do is what we can do, we get distracted in the debate over banning guns that we don't have the debate we should have. how do we secure our schools,
defend our children, and make sure they're safe. and then how do we try to prevent this from happening by finding some one that unstable and making threats how do we separate them from guns. not all the rest of us, how do we separate crazy people from guns. >> harris: as a doctor you treat the whole patient no matter what your line is, you know you're treating somebody who physically is having a situation. but what i hear you saying, in society, medical pro figure always, you're also looking at the things we don't see. why do you think it's so hard for us to deal with this mental situation? why is that so stigmatized? my daughter false and breaks her arm, i'm saying get to the hospital. >> it doesn't take a psychiatrist to figure this out or a trained professional. in parkland, every kid was going i bet you it was so and so. >> harris: i had asked the young girl even if you think you know who it was don't mention a name. >> parkland they found out
everyone of these kids who didn't see the shooting was saying i'll bet it's so and so. everybody knew that kid was a problem. he threatened teachers. nobody was doing their job. he should have been arrested. he should have been separated from his guns. he should president have been in a house with guns. it's individualized it's about an individual that does something wrong that goes through a court proceeding then the people obeying the law we don't take their self-defense, take it from the people who are breaking laws and are a danger to others. we aren't doing enough of it. we have been lacks, we're lacks at a lot of things. come to d.c. and everybody on every homeless corner is talking to the air. i mean, schizophrenia is the most common diagnosis for homeless people across the country. there is a humane way. we should -- it does imply there would be a crime to vagrancy and you would be arrested and put into a shelter. we try to get you help. instead we have decided you have the right to be a vagrant, i'm
not sure you do have that right. we also don't get any help. you sleep in the cold and get frost bite. fingers are falling away. we have to do something different about mental health. >> harris: your nephew used to be the principal until a couple of months ago of santa fe high school. i know that for your family, you grew up just 40 miles from here, this is personal. >> absolutely. >> harris: i appreciate you coming in and talking about it. and bringing us a different side of the story, too. you know exactly where highway 6 is outside that school. the kids were trying to get to safety. senator rand paul, thank you. >> thank you. >> harris: if you are looking at the screen to the left you may be wondering it says moments ago. how is this still an active scene. it very much it in the terms that they have found explosive devices. inside the high school where they had a mass school shooting. suspected to be, carried out by a student, with at least a
shotgun, more weapons we're told but no details on that that we can confirm for you. those details are still coming in. what makes this active, too, not everything that could explode was found inside the school. also on a perimeter. and perhaps even beyond that, offcampus. we have had the chief of police say that, yes, we need the public's help to find any other devices that may have been left behind by at least one suspect. also talking with a person of interest. and the victim side of all of this, 8 to 10 people have perished, most of them students. we heard from one young sophomore, who said that she could get away from things bus she was across from where the gunfire was happening across campus. but they didn't know exactly what would come next as a fire alarm was pulled and people were running from the perimeter, trying to cross the highway to get away from the danger.
bob strang, former co-chair of the new york anti-terrorism task force. he advises schools on security. what would you say to santa fe, bob. >> well, first i would say i'm sorry for this horrible act and these families and students that have gone through this. but what we're doing is a lot with different schools, teaching children what to do with a situation like this. in addition to building the perimeter, watching the entrances, making sure that you have one way to get in, one way to get out, cctv. telling kids to run, right away, getting away from the shooter. telling the kids to hide, get behind a desk, get in the closet. if you can hide, hide f you can't, run. third, telling them to fight. if they have to, if they're trapped, see the shooter in action, they're going to have to take action themselves. throwing meyer backpack, throwing a desk, working with another student, quickly reacting. schools are doing things and of been doing things for the past
15 years to catch up. police departments have been working on this as well. look how quickly they responded and quickly able to shoot. there wasn't any hesitation. they were able to stop the shooter in his tracks and take him alive. so, really, the one thing, three-prong approach. schools ready and able to put the security in place and train the students and the teachers. two, is the police being ready to move quickly and act quickly and respond efficiently like they did today. and the third component, maybe the most important, the mental health side that we have been talking about. how do we stop this, prevent it, looking at social media, as you have said, harris, they usually know who it is well before it happens. >> harris: i took some copious notes. and i realize that i have a third and fifth grader. i have heard some of what you said. bob, it's so different for us. we were told to stop, drop and roll. what you are saying is run, hide, or fight. so as the mom of a third grader,
i realize that that's the conversation that is going on in her classroom. and i'm glad it is. because i want that information out. so you're putting it out there in a way we can really absorb it. the things that you say that need to be in place. school readiness. police moving quickly. and mental health side. those are the things that these events have had in common. no matter what you are teaching the kids about run, mild, fight, the other elements are the ones that we seem to be struggling with in society. >> absolutely. and this is something, this is like we've talked about it, all local, a local school, local city. the leadership comes from the top. if the president had the opportunity on bring in the surgeon general, to bring in the head of the school system, the attorney general and say let's put in a plan for schools to follow. let's get everybody on the same page. let's put these people in the same room. this goes for colleges. goes for workplaces. this can be done, it is being
done in certain parts of our country right now, and it just needs to be done a little bit more obviously. >> harris: when you hear, and we had on former detective ted williams earlier, he said that unconfirmed, we don't know exactly what the other hardware was. but he was convinced was not surprised at all to learn there would have been something other than a shotgun. your thoughts? >> not surprised either. this was a well-planned approach. this is something -- >> harris: what tells you it was well planned? >> just the fact that he was able to walk in, that he had the shotgun, this is something that somebody just doesn't do spur of the moment. when we looked back on the school shootings we have had in the past they were all pretty much planned. as the police went through the computers and cell phones, started to take up notes and learn more about the individual, talk to family members, they realized that this was something that was in the back of their mind. there was something wrong no one had done anything. this is the same story with most
of these cases that we see. >> harris: looking at the scene right now, and we haven't had a lot of live video in recent minutes. partially they're scouring that come bus looking for -- campus looking for explosive devices. we don't want to give anybody's positions away as they try to find the stuff, they are looking for the public's help. i'm curious to know how many device these found and what, we had it described earlier, what a bobby trap would have looked like. wouldn't that have taken some time to do this? >> absolutely takes time. remember, they aren't just committed to the school, they don't know what could be out there in vehicles, in private homes, what else, there might be any kind of device. this is a very difficult time, not only because of what they've gone through this morning in terms of this mass shooting, but also the families that live in town that are concerned about whether or not there might be a device planted in their path or
affect their families. this is a horror situation. >> harris: the way that it was described earlier to me, was that this is almost like a marrying of copycats. you have a school shooting, which other children probably get the idea from, well, you know, i can do it too. if that's where they're motivated to do. then you have a situation where not long ago in austin, texas you had a bomber with packages. explosive devices all over the place. >> yes. and this is similar, feeling, that happened in austin. these people are concerned about this. this is why it's planned. when you have some one goes in with a shotgun, you have potentially other devices other locations, this isn't something that you just wake up in the morning and decide to do. this is something that is thought out. this is something that, with the right approach in place, with that mental health component, with the police component, with the school opponent, we can reduce these shootings. certain towns and locations
across the country have done it. more people have to do it. it takes resources, time, money. but it can be done. >> harris: one of the congressmen told me they have $63 billion, next week he'll talk with the secretary of education to spend some of that on hardening schools as target, resource officers and so on. bob strang, appreciate your time and expertise, thank you. >> thank you, har miss. >> harris: let me tell you how the dagen with this story. with these people, with our hearts now focused on an area outside of houston, texas. santa fe, texas this morning, believed that a student carrying at least a shotgun and some other weapons, unconfirmed may have been able to conceal them in something he was wearing like a trench coat, showed up on campus, went to an art class, and began killing people. most of them students. police chief here, in santa fe, the sheriff's department here in harris county, confirming 8 to 10 dead.
again, most of them students. at least 12 injured. and in those hospitalized that we know of, most critical, among them is a resource officer who was there. he was shot close to the chest in the arm. lost a lot of blood. he's been in the operating room through two hospital briefings so far. they're trying to save him. but the suspect in this was captured alive. and he will answer to what is going on as they try to figure out how this all started. there are explosive devices, no doubt they're asking him about those. but they've already found inside the school and around. they're looking to make sure that this place is safe again. students were being reunited with family members, we spoke with a sophomore this hour, who described theterror. a hellish day in santa fe at this high school. our thoughts and prayers focused
in on that and all of the families going through this. and now, the investigation moving forward. in moments we'll hear from the governor of the great state of texas, abbott. i'm harris, here's dana. >> dana: breaking news. at least eight people are dead after a gunman opened fire at a texas high school. police say they have also found possible explosive devices around the school and nearby. i'm dana perino. this is "the daily briefing". >> in a horrifying situation in los angeles, a shooting happened this morning in santa fe high school 30 miles southeast of houston. police say they have a suspect and a person of interest in custody. >> dana: you can see the students running from the school with their hands up. they describe running for their lives and seeing their friends injured. >> my friend got shot. as soon as the alarms went off, everybody