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tv   The Journal Editorial Report  FOX News  May 27, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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♪ paul: welcome to the journal editorial report, i'm paul gigot, senior intelligence and law enforcement officials held two-high level briefings thursday for republican and democratic lawmakers on the russia investigation amid allegation that is the fbi used a top secret informant to spy on the trump campaign. both meetings were held as the president raised new questions about the probe and called for the department of justice to look into whether his campaign was surveilled for political purposes. wall street journal columnist kim strassel has been following this story from the beginning. i spoke with her earlier. urging the justice department to
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cooperate with justice department committee and new cooperation but if history is a guide here we have to wait and see what happens because there's history of not cooperating. >> yeah, i would bet on not cooperation not only refusal to make documents available but serious redactions have been sent over, doj's refusal to make witnesses available for different members an committees in the house and in the senate. they don't want a lot of this information to come out so i think we can expect that it's all going to have to be pride out bit by bit. paul: okay, now we do -- the name of this contractor has been widely reported, but we know a fair number of things about it, he's an american who is resident in the uk, he met with three trump campaign officials, all of this from stories that clearly
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seemed leaked by the justice department and fbi, is that how you read it, they are responsible for leaking details? >> absolutely, according to government sources and that usually means department of justice, fbi, you also have to look at motives here. you know, this, paul, we have been in the journalism business for a long time. you always look to see who has an interest in putting it out, the stories that were written very much took the most kind line that you could to the department of justice and fbi even going so far to suggest this person who was spying on the trump campaign was not in fact, spying on the trump campaign but it very much designed to cast the fbi in the best light. paul: why are they blaming the house intelligence committee for having leaked this, the name, is there any evidence that that happened? >> there is absolutely no evidence that happened.
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just a curious point, look at the level of details that were put in the stories about the particular spy/informant. all reason devin nunes is going to the department of justice with a subpoena because he doesn't have the information about this person. they have the information about this person, so there's only one side that was in possession to leak in the first place. >> paul: we know from some reporting that this informant met with carter page, with george papadopoulos, clovis, trump officials, what else we want to learn about informant and what he was up to? >> most important question here is timeline. if you look at some of those stories that were leaked to the times, the washington post, they all went out of their, at least one of them went out of their way to say, none of these contacts took place until after the fbi started counterintelligence investigation on july 31st, 2016 but was know and we reported of at least one major interaction that this source carter page all the way back to july with
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invitation that had been extend to him for england beginning of june and other suspicious questions of people approached in the spring. this is a timeline question. when did the fbi first start using a person or more than one to look at the trump campaign and why? paul: okay, but why does the timeline matter? why does it matter if it happened in the spring? >> it matters because the fbi has doggedly stuck to this story that it only began this counterintelligence investigation because of information it received in the middle or toward the end of july about overheard conversation of trump aide george papadopoulos and claim that he knew something about russia and emails. if it started much sooner than that, obviously that was not the catalyst and it means the fbi hasn't been straight about what it was that had inspired it to get involved here and some people, you know, they worry is there political reason as well, what was going on?
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paul: was part of the motivation the christopher steele dossier, we know that was paid for the clinton campaign. we also want to know what government officials knew about this and what was the reason they gave for tasking this informant. all of that still has to be uncovered. >> yeah, and there's been increasing focus, for instance, on former cia director john brennan because there has been some suggestion that he might have been involved in some of this and maybe there was interagency task force from the sinning, starting in the spring when people began to have concerns about the trump campaign, that's something to look at. remember, we have pretty strict prohibitions, paul, on the cia and how it can monitor american citizens. >> what about this argument you hear from the critics of the president that he has crossed some ethical line by saying to justice, cooperate with the house intelligence committee? is that crossing a line?
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>> no, because it begins from the premise that it is somehow out of bounds to ask any questions about the investigators. look, we do have separations of power, we have a congress that's tasked with oversight of the executive branch and that is a way yod rawter -- you'd rather have do it and if the justice department is not going to cooperate with dually issued subpoenas, the president is absolutely right to tell the people who work for him that hay immediate to respond to and comply with congressional overnight. >> is the ultimate burden here maybe on the president to override the justice department and maybe declassify everything and say, look, you come in and look at, i'm saying it's okay, he has the power as president to do that? >> he ought to do it tomorrow in my mind, paul, because they are really the only organization, only body that can get to this, people have talked about inspector general at the justice
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department but he does not have subpoena powers and a lot of power, they need to have access to this. declassify for them. there's no problem about that. the gang of 8, the highest security clearances who have always in the past have been allow today look at material like this. paul: kim strassel, thanks. when we come back, president trump pulling out on sit-down with kim jong un, at least for now, so what's behind this diplomatic dance and what's next? >> we will see what happens. we are talking to them now. it was a very nice statement they put out. we will see what happens.
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and bill mcgurn, so bill, what do you make of this on again and off again dance. >> well, sitting down with any leaders at any time as some people are, however, you know
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the danger, right, it's like getting engaged and planning a wedding and then if the week before the wedding you're thinking, this isn't the gal for me. [laughter] >> the pressure when she's in her dress and the cake is baked. paul: you're already there. >> the process overrides it. people talked about it's in kim's interest to have agreement and so forth. paul: i think it's in kim's interest to have an agreement. >> that's why we all have to keep eye on the ball which is denying him the capacity to strike the united states with nuclear weapon. if the talk that he's sincere, they have always done the talks, i remember bill clinton staring across the dmz, if you pursue the nuke, it would be the end of the country, it wasn't. they know how it is. that's the danger that we forget that's at stake here.
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paul: have the north koreans made a strategic decision to give up their program and if they haven't, then there's not a lot to talk about? >> right, the president is starting to have doubts about that but i will give credit, he never changed, you know, everybody explained this as the extreme pressure and he said, nothing in that category has changed even as they've arranged this meeting. >> that is the u.s. president on north korea? >> exactly. if i were the president, i would have not -- i would not have made a commemorative coin so far in advance but i have to give him credit for saying, look, you you know, if you don't show good faith, and that's different how obama behaved with iran and cuba. paul: we know that kim jong un wants a summit, appearance, even though he doesn't want to make commitments because it puts him on the world stage as trump's
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equal. how does donald trump seem eager to have a summit with kim? >> well, i think it dates back to the meeting that kim's sister had at the olympics with south korean president moon, it's always been u.s. policy that what we want from north korea term of art, complete verifiable denuclearization and at that time the north koreans conveyed they might be willing to talk about that, secretary of state pompeo went to north korea, came back with the impression that that kind of discussion was on. and then i think it happened after kim went for the second time to the meeting in beijing, he pulled back and united states started to get the strong impression that the north koreans were no longer interested. they objected to the routine military exercises that we have with south korea. we pulled back after that. they did not show up for logistical meetings in singapore, we were not able to get them on the phone and i
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think at that point the u.s. decided that the north koreans were simply not negotiating in good faith and their foreign ministry was saying at the time that they were a nuclear power and complete denuclearization was not their goal. after that, paul, what was there to talk about? >> well, i agree with that, bill, it seems to me that donald trump was played in a way by moon -- president moon of south korea and maybe a little bit by the north koreans so i'm wondering why put the possibility back on the table? >> i don't know, i wouldn't have agreed to the meeting, it's not the thing -- my whole view is that what the north koreans are doing is trying to get more time. so even if they could delay a meeting, if secretary pompeo was right when he said the cia that the north koreans are within a handful of months of gaining this capacity to strike america, then what you want to do is play for time in these games, but i think he showed who is insincere, i actually think he
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gains from it. paul: politically? >> from moving out of the talks. paul: do you agree with that or has this been a setback? >> no, no, like i said, i think he's showings that they have to show good faith and if they're not going to do that, never mind. i think -- i think it's something that he should be proud of having done. paul: where does it go from here? he has to restore maximum pressure? >> they have to keep maximum pressure. >> i might be word about that. if the talks don't produce anything, the north koreans don't agree, the president has made this a red line, they cannot get this capacity and what people forget, nothing has changed for japan and south korea. we are talking about an attack on the mainland, the capacity to do that. >> u.s. mainland. >> i don't think kim will give up weapons likely. >> thank you all, when we come back president trump opening up a potential new front in the
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trade war, what his investigation into auto import could mean for american consumers and car makers next. >> i think your auto workers and your auto companies in this country are going to be very happy with what's going to happen. ♪ heartburn and gas? ♪ now fight both fast new tums chewy bites with gas relief all in one relief of heartburn and gas ♪ ♪ tum tum tum tums new tums chewy bites with gas relief
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investigation being brought under section 232 of american trade law, the national security provision, are foreign cars a threat? >> of course not. 56% of all cars sold in the united states are made in the united states but we also make lots of parts and we do a lot of design and and research for cars so the auto industry in the country has probably never been healthier or not been healthier since maybe 1940 or something like that. i mean, it's globally competitive. it's using all the advantages of open trade to make itself stronger and so you not only have a strong u.s. base but have a very strong export component because of it. paul: when we talk about the u.s. auto industry, we don't mean ford, chrysler and gm, we are talking about mercedes, bmw, toyota, and nissan, they all make cars in the united states. >> well, one of donald trump's theories here is if he does this, then they'll have to come
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here and build more plants and make more cars here but, of course, what we know about a protected market is that the quality of the cars goes down, you know, for those of us who were alive in 1970's, cars didn't last, they were terrible, it was only opening in the car market that cars became a better experience for consumers. paul: why is donald trump doing this? >> i think it's mostly about nafta because if you take the cars made in the united states plus canada and méxico, you have something like 75% of all cars are made in north america, he's not getting the cooperation that he wanted on nafta and this is his response to that but he's forgetting here that first of all méxico -- his main thing is if he launches this investigation it's going to take 8 months, that's going to get him through the november election and he can say when people go to polls in november, oh, yeah, i didn't get the nafta deal but i'm being tough with canada and méxico because he's
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being criticized about that right now and in 8 months he's not going to win this appeal because it is not harming the industry. paul: dan, it's hard for me to determine, get a coherent strategy from the trump-trade team and in part, the president this week on china he was saying, it's a great deal after the weekend negotiations and then by the next day, not such a great deal and the next day after that, it's really a bad deal and we have to redo the whole thing. what -- what is going on here? >> well, it's very hard, i think donald trump likes to play three-dimensional negotiation chess and it's hard to keep your eye on the ball. as mary was suggesting, the national security threat from the auto industry very difficult to credit. currently there are 24 japanese and german auto factories in the united states employing american workers, all right. so then you have to go looking for other reasons, what might be going on here, mary suggesting
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forcing méxico's hand on nafta, i think another target here is germany and angela merkel, trump has several things going with her, the most important of which is the iranian nuclear deal, need her support on that, united states and england are very upset that the germans are negotiating gas pipeline with russia, they would like them to stop doing that and trump has said any number of times he wants the germans to increase military spending. i think part of this is to put pressure on her, get her attention, but, of course, the european union has already posed on array of countertariffs on american goods if we go through with auto tariffs. paul: japan, 11% of import are made in japan. japan is teaming up retaliation on steel and aluminum tariffs. how does this get japan to cooperate? >> i'm not sure it does. the auto workers would like the
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deal, some auto workers might like it. if you're work at at a tima plant in tennessee, you're an auto worker too, you might not like this as much. you know, it used to be that when you had a block aid and you prevented people from importing things, that was considered a -- an act of war. now that you have the white house sort of suggesting this on their own consumers, it's inconceivable to me and the same auto workers that might like the tax on foreign cars, the tariffs on it, they're complaining about the steel tariffs because that raises their costs. it's counterproductive across field. paul: there's a view politically that this helps president and republicans because they are speaking to workers. there's another side of the story, trade protectionism and potential retaliation is hurting parts to have farm bill, for example, which would be retaliation and also a problem and business decisions being
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held, delayed when the tariffs are going to hit, how bad will they be and so i think this is slowing growth and we are hearing that as ceo's get to earnings, well, this is my biggest concern now. >> yeah, i think one of the things that mysterious me that donald trump talks about the trade as if his trade partners don't have any way to respond and méxico has a lot of ways to respond. as you mentioned, it's a big importer of us, u.s. agriculture products, but don't forget that the u.s. has retaliation rights from the solar panels and the diswashers that trump put the tariffs on and if they use those retaliation rights on june -- paul: other countries in. >> méxico, mexico has retaliation rights and on june 1st, if the steel tariffs that donald trump has threatened on méxico go into effect, they can immediately use those retaliation rights and i think they will and that will harm red
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skin problems; and severe bone, joint, or muscle pain. if your bones aren't getting stronger isn't it time for a new direction? why wait? ask your doctor about prolia. paul: good news for republican this is memorial day weekend as the midterm campaign season kicks into high gear, new polls show gop closing the gap when it comes to which party voters will support in november's congressional elections.
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latest real clear politics average showing the democrats lead narrowing to 4%, wall street journal columnist karl rove former senior advise the other george w. bush and fox news contributor. karl, good to see you again, thanks for coming in. the primaries have been rolling here, many states now. what's the big take away from your point of view? >> well, if you look at the generic ballot just before christmas, before they passed the tax cut, the democratic margin was 13 points, by mid february it was down to 9, by late march down to 7 and as you say memorial day weekend we find ourselves with 4 point advantage for the democrats. think about what's going on during that time, i think three things are at play here, one is improvement in the president's job approval, it's gone from being in the high 30's to the low 40's, that maybe 4-5 point increase may sound small but critical to the republicans and
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42, 43, 44% range. second of all, the economy, percentages of the economy are improving whether directly for tax cut or not, we can argue all day long but the fact of the matter is the way people -- paul: people feel better. >> democrats are going to primaries and are starting to see who the democrats are putting up and i'm not certain that's necessarily helping the democrats in each and every case. paul: you say that i've seen the race in nebraska, texas, pennsylvania, the left side of the party is winning in districts that are competitive districts where that kind of message may not play as well as centrist voice, is that your point? >> yeah, i think it's two things. one, they are nominating some left-leaning candidates like in nebraska and pennsylvania, one, but even when the candidates have entered the race not as left-wing candidate, the rhetoric that they feel compel
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today adopt in democratic primary places them to the left of where they need to be, remember, in order to twin house, the democrats will have to win districts that are at least purple and in some instances red. paul: okay, here is the thing, though, the buggy nerric ballot, there's no question it's tightening. the margin for holding the house according to kevin mccarthy, the majority leader is 6, within 6 the republicans think they can hold the house but this doesn't take into consideration, democratic voter enthusiasm. i've talked to republicans in some of the special races, ed gallespie told me the democratic didn't turn out entirely in the data on election day because democrats are so fired up that they exceed the polling, what do you think of that? >> i think that's accurate but a long time between november 2017 virginia governor's race and the november 2018 midterm elections and we have seen this year
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conflicting information. we've had a great deal of -- of media commentary that pointed towards big turnout by democrats in texas even suggesting that they might eclipse the republicans, well, half many people voted in republican primary and the runoff is the lowest in history and ohio republicans outvoted the democrats both parties had competitive primaries for governor, the republicans far outvoted the democrats. so, again, it's hard to say, i would say that enthusiasm is on the side of the democrats but whether that's sufficient enough, we don't know, we have an eternity to go between now and november and all kinds of things can happen to effect voter enthusiasm in each party's likelihood of turning out. paul: seems to me something else the happening and that is that the democrats who have focused on robert mueller, robert mueller, donald trump and now talking impeachment are begin to go shift, maybe impeachment is
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running republican enthusiasm. democrats are turning to health care, rising costs, rising premiums and gasoline prices which we know have gone up for a variety of reasons as the summer driving season increases. are those two republican vulnerabilities? >> they are. you put your finger on a really interesting point which is the democrats have moved away from impeachment. i think it's for two reasons, one it obscures chance to talk about broader issues and second of all, remember, in order to win these districts, in these states, many instances they will have to win swing independent voters and it's interesting, veterans are strong in favor of impeachment, republicans strongly oppose to it and independents tend to look more like the republicans than they do democrats. paul: if you were laying a democratic hat, you would say
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lay off impeachment? >> oh, yeah, the voices have been right on. whether or not every candidate is going to listen to him is another thing and during the primaries rhetoric, even if they have not come out and endorsed resistance by calling impeachment, candidates who have been moderate or centrist in views have adopted rhetoric which makes them sound off resistance. for example, in dallas, democrats talked about how trump will take us into a world that will destroy the world and it's common sense versus quote idiocy, the language even if they don't endorse, part to have resistance. paul: not necessarily swing district. >> plano. paul: thank you, karl.
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paul: starbucks finding itself at the center of another controversy this week, this time over new guest policy, the coffee chain announced last weekend that it would allow visitors to use its coffees including restrooms whether or not they make a purchase. a response to april arrest of two black men in one of its philadelphia stores. the new policy not a hit with
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all of the coffee chain's patrons however saying it won't leave seats to customers. starbucks close 8,000 stores this coming afternoon for mandatory racial bias training. we are back with dan henninger, mary anastasi au ogrady and jillian melchoir. >> it represents something and what it represents is howard schultz great insight when he was starting out with starbucks that liberalism was not nearly politics but the political liberalism had become a lifestyle, a way of thinking about the world, you know, in the old days you bought a coffee, you got black coffee in
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ceramic cup anymore, not anymore, you drink it through white foam and when you read on the wall, that you're not nearly buying coffee, your money is going to support coffee or even to fight climate change. paul: i tell you, dan, i still think it's about coffee, explain why howard schultz can't win here? >> after the incident in philadelphia which two black men were arrested in using the bathroom, weren't buying anything, said they were there on business, the manager had them arrested, there was a video made of it, it went viral. starbucks accused of being racist. now, one of the things that in this world you cannot be accused of and survive and so starbucks immediately announced as we just suggested in the introduction that they would close all 8,000 of their stores next tuesday afternoon to summit their employees to sensitivity training. i personally think, paul that
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the starbucks the most sensitive people in the world. i think they already know about trying not to be racist but you can't win, you cannot make progressives happy anymore, we have seen this on campus, we have seen this in corporations that you cannot apiece -- -- appease and that's what they are finding out. paul: what do you do? >> you have an investigation and if you do something wrong, you apologize. i think they are putting employees in a terrible position, it's not the first time they've done this. they did a race together, campaign, they are putting employees in front of culture war, creating situation where they have to engage awkward conversations about race. if they have complicated situation and they will will be accused of racism.
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paul: they should have kept policy, you to buy something to be in the store, whether you want to use bathroom or sit and use computer as we know millions and thousands of people do, certainly in starbucks i visit, but you to buy something, that's policy, sorry, you can't be here. >> a very reasonable policy. paul: other places follow it. mary, you're a starbucks patron, i have seen you around with the cup. [laughter] paul: what do you make to it as a customer? were that was a long time, paul. i stopped going and one of the problems is that we have been everywhere and some in new york were not as cleaned where they used to be. there's lots of competition and other coffee shops, two different chains opened in my neighborhood in brooklyn. so, you know, i don't think they are thinking very much of customers. to jillian's point, i grew up in new york, i remember walking up with my brothers, have to buy something if you want to use the
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bathroom, that's so standard. >> they put chalk out of business. >> they had great doughnuts. it's not just starbucks, we shouldn't beat on them alone. this week bell de blasio told nypd should issue summons to people smoking marijuana in public than arresting them. smoking marijuana public in new york is still illegal. paul: technically illegal. >> the police say you are putting us in a tough position, are we suppose to enforce the law, let people go out and do whatever they want, the progressive view is anything goes and you get this kind of confusion and even chaos about whether you're doing the right thing or enforcing the law. paul: all right, thank you all. when we come back, one year after protests, the backlash
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paul: it's been a year since green state college with protest, day of absence in spring 2017 when activists asked white students faculty and staff to stay off campus to call attention to issues of racism, when professor objected and students disrupted class and staged wider protests on campus, what has happened at the college since those protests garnered national attention last year may surprise you as our own gillian melchoir reported. jillian, first background. public university?
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>> public university. paul: how many students? >> 3,000 to 3,500 a year. they are known for being progressive. to the left of berkeley. motto is in latin, let et owl hand out. as liberal as you can possibly get. paul: part of the traction, people go there knowing. >> yeah, absolutely. it draws progressives. paul: what happened here that created the controversy? >> we have two things, first is they were going through equity plan that rests on the assumption that white people are racists. paul: equity plan? what is that? >> one of the things it would have done if you're new hire, equity justification, you can't just teach chemistry, with a gender focus or race focus. paul: i see. that rules out me, okay. >> yes. second thing they did was day of absence where white students were asked to leave the campus, professor weinstein objected to this, he said he thought that was really offensive and racial
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segregation and that ended up triggering these massive protests. you had students occupying the building, holding professorses hostage and demanding firing. paul: and he was, in fact, forced to go, was he not? >> yeah, he sued the university for creating hostile environment, they settled for 500,000 as condition, he and his wife no longer teach there. paul: okay, what are we finding out now a year later about the impact of all this controversy? >> every university -- paul: university of missouri. >> every university where we have seen administration give-ins so radical protesters you see backlash. i was interested in evergreen because it has far-left reputation. there are a lot of people on the left who care about free speech and free inquiry and horrified by what they saw. it's losing support of donors,
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prospective students, enrollments down 17%, they will lose 500 to 60000 students? >> that's a lot for school, that's a big deal. >> financially in trouble, tuition is half of revenue. they had to tip into emergency fund. they are in trouble. paul: what's the response of the university to your reporting, you dug into public documents, you solicited documents and found out what they wouldn't have announced publicly? >> not our fault, this is the fault of weinstein for politicizing the issue. they say that this is the fault of the media, they're basically doubling down on the same identity politics, so i think they are going to see a lot more backlash. paul: any impact on the president of the school? >> still in place and putting inclusion at the center. paul: what's his name? >> george bridges. paul: he's still pushing accelerator down. bill, what do you make this as signal culturally, encouraged by
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what's happening? >> i'm encouraged by some of the response, this is since the french revolution, the left has been eating its own. at some point the revolution turns on the people, on campuses this is how we see the original progressive goals of color blindness, now led to gender quotas and all sorts of things, free speech is leading to speech codes and tolerance is leading to intolerance. they don't seem to be able to create rules of the game where everyone has -- to actually learn requires some basic values and they don't seem -- i don't blame students, i blame the faculty and the president, so few are willing to stand up to defend the institution that they run and we saw this in vietnam war too. think of the protests. more violent at universities where there was probably more support for the antiwar movement than there was in regular country. paul: dan, could this possibly be something of a culture
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turning point, do you think if people see that the university of missouri and evergreen, real consequences for allowing disorder to break out and dominate over education? >> it possibly could be, paul, as jillian reported, there are some people sending children to evergreen who self-identify as people of the left but say they are not signing up for something like this sort of chaos and i will say very interesting, paul, the washington post had a poll this week in which 50% of the people polled said that they think that demonstrations today are more violent and more unruly than they were 50 years ago and they don't like it, so i think the kind of just chaos that progressives are creating in places like ever green are being noticed. >> i think they are in real trouble. you know, it's been interesting talking to different students who considered evergreen,
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crossed it off list, one-third of the students said they were terrified of academics mobbing, so i think this university is in trouble. paul: great, thank you, jillian, catch podcast, 30 minutes on what happened at evergreen. we have to take one more break, when we come back hits and misses of the week. come here, babe. ok. nasty nighttime heartburn? try new alka-seltzer pm gummies. the only fast, powerful heartburn relief plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. ♪ oh, what a relief it is! but their nutritional needs remain instinctual. that's why there's purina one true instinct. real meat #1. a different breed of natural nutrition. purina one true instinct. now, try new purina one true instinct treats. i had a very minor fender bender tonight! in an unreasonably narrow fast food drive thru lane.
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if yor crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough, it may be time for a change. ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal
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their son in court. he is 30 years old and refused to leave. he would not get out so an italian restaurant offered him a job and he wants to stand in his own now is his chance. >> dan? >> i'm getting my hit believe it or not, to the u.s. congress.l which this week passed right to try legislation which means fda transit is a significant battle that goes back 30 years. president trump deserves credit for this and he says he will sign it this week. >> i love my parents. they were great appetite, i was out the door! [laughter] i did not want to go back. remember, if you have your own hit or miss treatment usus at @.
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>> in this fox news alert, new signs of a planned us and north korea summit might be back on track. as us officials cross into the north to lay down the groundwork.president trump saying talks over a potential june 12 summit with kim jong-un are progressing well. both sides going ahead with plans is that the uncertainty. hello everyone welcome to a brand-new hour inside "americas news headquarters", i am arthel neville. >> i am mike emanuel in for eric shawn. sitting face-to-face in singapore and possibly ending decades of mutual hostility. on capitol hill lawmakers are