tv Outnumbered FOX News June 25, 2018 9:00am-10:00am PDT
good to have you today. >> see you tomorrow. >> sandra: a lot of news. we leave it there. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> melissa: fox news alert. president trump today stepping up the call for tougher border security amid the growing showdown over immigration. and as lawmakers keep pointing fingers over families being separated after crossing into the country illegally and the treatment of migrant children. this is "outnumbered." i'm melissa francis. here today is host of "kennedy" on the fox business network, kennedy montgomery. democratic strategist and the fox news contributor jessica tarlov. commentator and fox news contributor rachel campos-duffy. and joining us on the couch today richard fowler. democratic strategist, radio host, fox news contributor and generally jazzy guy. he is "outnumbered." are you ready for it today? >> richard: i'm ready. >> melissa: i don't know how outnumbered you are. it feels even. >> and friday juan was here. >> richard: i'm the only guy so i'm still outnumbered.
>> melissa: there you go. house g.o.p. leaders are aiming for a vote despite the president telling them to wait until after the midterms. meanwhile, amid continued protest over the family separation the republican lawmakers are preparing to vote on a narrower immigration bill to let the migrant children be detauned with the parents for more than 20 days. the president tweeting "hiring many thousands of judges and i going through a long and complicated legal process is not the way to go. we'll always be dysfunctional. people must be stopped at the border and told they continue come in illegally. children brought back to their country. if this is done, illegal immigration will be stopped in its tracks and very little by comparison cost. this is the only real answer. we must continue to build the wall." in the meantime, democrats continuing to slam the white house. >> it raises very serious constitutional issues. i mean we have always been a
country when people come here to seek asylum, when they're fleeing violence and very devastating kinds of situations in their country, we have allowed them due process. the policy of separating children from the families is inhumane and cruel. we have to put an end to it and we have to get them reunited. >> melissa: house homeland security chairman mike mccall says don't blame the president. blame congress' failure to act. >> i'm the father of five. this is inhumane. i think the pictures we have seen, not the face of america. i think most people in this country want -- i wouldn't fault the administration. i would fault the united states congress who has the power to change the laws that will stop this from happening again. >> melissa: fox news senior capitol hill producer chad hergrem live on capitol hill. what does it look like there this morning, chad? >> they spent the weekend trying to retool the
compromise bill republicans have been working on. they are trying to add everify provisions to deal with migrant workers to work in the united states. agriculture provisions for guest workers. they are not sure if they have the votes or if they will ever have the votes when you talk to leadership aides here. kevin mccarthy says they will have a vote. no questions asked. >> there will be a vote this week. not only will it put the money forward for the wall, it will tie any immigration proposal going forward to the money for the wall. that it has to be built. it has to be built. >> when you consider what is in this bill there is direct funding. what we call appropriation to the tune of $25 billion. that is hard money for the wall. also in that piece of legislation and this is the controversial part is a provision that allows a pathway to citizenship for most of the daca population. let's look at the math and the house of representatives. they can only pass on the republican side of the aisle a
bill and lose 20 on their own side. when you consider that so-called amnesty provision, that inflames a lot of republicans and that is why people like steve king, the republican of iowa might be reluctant to vote for the bill along with his colleagues. >> there is all of ten, there is probably 20. if there is 25 or 26 the bill would go down. i kind of think that number could go up to 40 or even more by the time next week rolls around and they had a chance to see what is in there. >> so no one is exactly sure when they might vote on the bill. the republican leadership has been sketchy on that. maybe wednesday, maybe thursday. also we are not going to have a vote on a more narrow piece of legislation that deals just with the border separation policy issue for children until they dispose of that bill, pass or fail. that could have to wait until after the july 4 recess. melissa? >> melissa: all right. chad, thank you so much for that. let's bring it out to the couch. so, richard, talking points
aside. let's try to take a crack at solving this problem. >> richard: all for it. >> melissa: i believe that. democrats have a unique opportunity, one or two could come in and demand something to get on board. they have a lot of leverage. what would make sense to ask for? what change would you ask for if you were a democrat to try to get on board and get something done since democrats would have so much leverage if they volunteers to help? >> richard: i think a compromise bill would strip out all the stuff from the visa lottery and the diversity lottery and saying the daca folks ending the family separation and exchange for that. some sort of funding or some funding formula for the wall. i think it passes the house easily. i think it will probably ascertain 60 votes necessary to pass a cloture vote in the senate easily. >> melissa: go ahead. >> kennedy: he is right. that is what you have to do. both sides are doubling down on the mid-terms. >> melissa: right. >> kennedy: democrats know that president trump has a pretty wide negotiating streak when it comes to certain
aspects of immigration and they can use that to their favor if they win the house. republicans feel the same way. if they can calm the immigration storm right now and get the economy churning once again, maybe quiet the waters on tariffs and get the markets moving back up, they will be in better position. but there has to be something done right now. i think when you tie daca to the wall, that is an aspect that would work for both sides. and chad says they are not going to try this smaller piece of legislation until the compromise bill fails. i think the republicans hurt themselves politically if they do that. i think that is another reputation smear and tarnish. what they should do is go for the narrow legislation now. have one fit. have it done. because they need to do something. and then if everyone wants to wait until after the midterms that is fine. >> i would think the hoopla on the border as much as i think the democrats were hoping it would embarrass -- and it is embarrassing because it's a disaster there, what is happening is not right.
that said, it's actually putting more pressure on republicans to get something done. because remember, legislation that has been put forward hits all four pillars that the president laid out. i like the conservative, jordan and the meadows. they are wrong here. they are wrong to call this amnesty. this is not amnesty. this is a bill that would push what kennedy said, a win-win. i don't think it passes if you narrow it down. i have been talking to member of congress and i don't think it would happen. what we need to do is get people on the right -- they enjoy a majority in the house because there are people, there are moderate republicans in texas and florida throwing those people under the bus. those people absolutely need to have this pass. to win in the next election. so if jordan and the house freedom caucus doesn't get behind this, maybe it's adding more guest workers on stuff or maybe other provisions to change there. but they have to pass this. if they don't want to hand the gavel over to nancy pelosi in
the next congress. >> melissa: so given that, jessica, they have to pass that not to have nancy pelosi win at the same time. >> jessica: they have to do more than that. >> melissa: so maybe it changes the point then. it seems like democrats would not want to get on board because they would want nancy pelosi in charge opposed to what i said in the beginning because a few democrats would have a ton of leverage if they said i will get on board if you do this. i mean, what would be a bill -- what would you agree to as a democrat that would give you that leverage to get on board. >> jessica: democrats agreed to the border wall funding. that was in the senate bill and it was more than that so it's gone as a talking point. we talk about how important it is to get it to the bare bones. the caucus in the republican and the democrat parties are disparate on this issue. i'd love to take one-by-one issue. daca vote, separation vote, border wall funding vote. it won't happen but that is what i think should happen.
>> rachel: i don't think the democrats want a solution for daca. >> melissa: hang on, hang on. >> rachel: they don't want a solution under the republican leadership. >> melissa: let's not desolve into this. let's listen to jeh johnson who is talking about the real problem in his eyes. >> we have an underlying humanitarian crisis on our southern border the we must deal with. and in central america. the high in illegal migration was 18 years ago and it's now a fraction of what it used to be. but the demographic has changed. it's women and children. we have to address this problem at the root cause. in central america. the poverty and the violence in central america that motivates women and children to come here in the first place. >> melissa: 83% of those who arrive in the u.s. are without a parent or guardian. kennedy? >> kennedy: i have a great deal of compassion for people
who send their children -- it's a difficult choice. it's expensive. that is your life savings that you are giving to a coyote hoping they get your child in united states so they have a better life. it's an awful, awful option. but these places, many them are so decimated around run by the drug cartel. the drug war, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not the way we fought it destroyed the countries and only enriched horribly corrupt people who then take over the governments and they only care about themselves and their narco terrorism and they do not care about people >> these countries. i do feel bad about that but we don't have an immigration policy. this is confusing. not only for the people who live here but for people trying to escape the war zones. >> melissa: how do you solve that? >> the most entrepreneurial, the most resourceful and the most ambitious are those that come over. i argue if we help solve the security problem in central
america we need the people to stay there to reform those governments. because i can assure you that it's the elite and the corrupt who want to export the people, the rabble-rousers and those who would cause reform and change in those countries. they want them to come out. there is a reason the governments like the way our immigration system is right now. because we get rid of the people who might actually call for change. >> melissa: that sounds like an insurmountable problem we can't solve. >> richard: we can solve it. you have to wear the shoes of this mother who packs everything she has in a backpack and gets on foot with her two children and walks through mexico to get to the u.s. border. >> melissa: we have compassion. we don't know how to solve it. >> richard: deal with the security issues in guatemala and nicaragua. >> melissa: you want to send troops down there? >> richard: not troops but u.s. aid. >> a lot of latin america is
under neglect under the obama administration. >> richard: and even before that. >> this is a time for trump administration to get engaged in latin america. >> kennedy: we don't need to -- this is not about nation-building. >> richard: that is the wrong word. >> kennedy: economic community. >> richard: that is an economic opportunity. >> kennedy: we have have been dealing with supply and not addressing the demand issue. and that imbalance has been ruinous murderous. >> melissa: we have to go. house intelligence committee chair devin nunes giving the d.o.j. another deadline. the answer he is demanding and his accusations that the feds are still stonewalling congress. we debate. plus the anti-trump f.b.i. agent set to be deposed before congressional investigators. what top republicans want to know about his vow to stop trump in the runup to the
>> rachel: deadline day for d.o.j. again. this is after the agency missed friday's cutoff to hand over all subpoenaed documents. house intel committee chair devin nunes giving the d.o.j. until 5:00 p.m. eastern to hand over any documents on the use of the f.b.i. informants to make contact with members of the trump campaign and he wants to know when they were deployed and how the efforts were financed. the d.o.j. says it already answered that in meetings with nunes and other lawmakers. chairman nunes says that is not good enough. >> i think there is a whole lot that we still don't know about that. that gets down to look, did you use the counterintelligence capability of the country to run informants or spies or whatever you want to call them into the trump campaign before that date? now, i would say furthermore, are you running spies into other senate campaigns or house members campaigns? i mean is this a practice you have been using for many years?
this needs to be cleared up. >> kennedy: speaker ryan's office saying it is fair to take more time to hand over the rest of the documents and the president again saying he could step in saying, "i have tried to stay uninvolved with the department of justice and the f.b.i. although i don't legally have to because of the discredited and the expensive witch hunt going on. but you have to ask why the d.o.j. and f.b.i. aren't giving over requested documents? why aren't they giving over the requested documents. >> richard: i'm glad you came to me first. judge andrew napolitano, i was on this morning and he answered the question and said precisely one of the reason why some of the documents cannot be turned over to the congress because they were used in grand jury. when something used in a seal grand jury it cannot be handed over to the public or anybody because of the grand jury information and won't be
released until the court or the case is closed. >> melissa: they could answer the question. >> richard: they did. >> melissa: did the investigation start before july 31, 2016? was an informant engaged before that time and if so why? >> melissa: >> richard: according to the d.o.j. they answered it to devin nunes. he doesn't think it's good enough and i don't think nunes has any credible. >> melissa: he is not alone. >> he said it was fine and that is going to cause a bigger problem -- >> richard: and the gang of eight. >> kennedy: paul ryan exhorted the d.o.j. and the f.b.i. to turn over the documents because the committee chairs have a legal professional congressional right to access this information. paul ryan said that. he is saying they deserve more time. >> jessica: i would ask if nunes has a problem with the gang of eight, the bipartisan group to see this. it smells like partisan on his part. you have to trust people of your own party to look at this. >> melissa: what is not partisan is the people involved in this has been
fired. peter strozk marched out, stripped of his clearance, his weapon taken from him. andrew mccabe trying to get documents from the f.b.i. he can't get it done. when all of these people are fired, and they finessed the reason in the i.g. report -- they find reason in the report that comey deserved to be fired is there any doubt this group was out of control and needs oversight? >> rachel: kennedy, you are right. congress has oversight over this. if the f.b.i. was going after me and accused me of and i think i'm innocent. i will throw -- look at all my stuff. look at all. i did nothing wrong. they are hiding something. i think it could be as big as what devin nunes just said. they could have been investigating trump's campaign before they started the investigation. which is wrong. and they could have been doing this, the obama administration to other candidates.
we need to know. >> kennedy: that is always the question but congress gives the them so much money with little oversight. so it's not a surprise that the people in charge of the agencies are looking out for themselves. >> richard: you won't get an debate from me why law enforcement generally speaking needs more accountability and transparency. for decades they've been arguing about the transparency -- it's not about the detriment of democrats. for decades people have been arguing for the transparency and the accountability from law enforcement in new york city and chicago. on every level. this is another example of it. in this particular example you have individuals in the trump campaign who have already been found guilty of committing crimes against the american people. >> melissa: then why not answer the questions if you're confident about the guilt or
innocence -- >> richard: the reason is there is a grand jury empanelled and the evidence is in the evidence of the grand jury. it can't be released to the public. it's against statute. >> melissa: it could be given to congress. one at a time. >> we're saying the same thing at once. >> it clearly seems as though the department of justice is trying to c.y.a. and people are sick of that. we have a lot of questions. dualing memos and press conferences and -- dueling memos and press conferences does not help us come to the real answer did somebody do something wrong and was that person in federal government? >> we had been hopeful that the i.g. report would put an end to it. it gave fodder to both sides. >> kennedy: it's still going. >> jessica: but he released a heavy trove of findings that did fuel -- >> melissa: texts that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise
that showed nothing that compromised security, only embarrassment. that keeps this going. the howls judiciary and the oversight officials are scheduled to depose peter strozk on wednesday over the anti-trump text messages sent while he worked on the russia investigation. judiciary chairman bob goodlatte subpoenaed the special agent despite strozk's offer to testify. they say his conduct demands answers. >> this is very disturbing because the implication here is not i'm just expressing my private opinion about an individual but this says i've got a plan to stop it. >> melissa: the congressman referring to the text exchange revealed in the d.o.j.'s i.g. report to suggest he was working to prevent a trump presidency. meanwhile, elijah cummings, the ranking democrat on the oversight committee accusing the republicans of keeping the party in the dark on wednesday's closed door testimony. >> i'm looking forward to hearing from him but the republicans have not told us
anything. we don't even know whether we will be invited, the democrats, to the deposition. >> melissa: closed door meeting. what do you think, kennedy? >> kennedy: i understand that there has to be some aspect of national security respected in the exchanging but again i err on the side of transparency. i think the american public can handle it and there are questions that are certainly understand answered. the i.g. report created a whole new set of questions and peter strozk is the one guy left standing -- i know he doesn't have clearance. he was escorted out of the building. he still has a job, which is remarkable. he is still technically employed at the f.b.i. so where is the accountability? james comey, his accountability is a multimillion dollar book deal and book tour. andrew mccabe, he will still have the lion's share of his pension and nothing is going to happen to him. so when is something going to happen and when is something going to change? >> melissa: rachel, i want
to ask the question. what did you mean? i want to see how he answers that. we won't see that. >> rachel: if i text kennedy and i say tell me that hillary clinton is not going to win and kennedy says we won't let that happen. we are just two girls on an "outnumbered" couch. >> absolutely right. formerly from the m.t.v. beach house. >> rachel: peter strozk is power of the f.b.i. the head of every single investigation. on hillary and on trump. this is serious. this is the power of our law enforcement. this is no small thing. i want to see what he has to say. my fear is that it's not just he is corrupt. my fear, my gut tells me this goes all the way to the top. that this was a coordinated effort by the resistance, which was already -- >> you'll find out. [overtalk] >> melissa: hold on, hold on, hold on.
>> viva le resistance in the text messages before. >> melissa: one at a time. >> kennedy: i want to ask richard a quick question. what troubles me is the bridge between the hillary clinton investigation to the russia investigation. they were not separate. when peter strozk says we will stop it and then he pretty much single handedly launches the russia investigation that is disconcerting. i want to know about that. i want to see the person testify in public and give an answer to that. >> richard: i have no problem with peter strozk testifying. i think he should testify. he is going to testify. i hope we have the same passion from rachel next time a black man is choked on statin island and we are asking for accountability and we want to see tapes and people to go to jail. >> rachel: you will see that. >> richard: that is what we're fighting for. >> rachel: let's see your -- >> richard: i'm happy for peter strozk to testify. my defense was criminal statute that says if there is something in a grand jury it can't be released. period.
that is the law. >> melissa: let richal respond. >> rachel: that is code for we are embarrassed by what we'll show you and they will use whatever tactic they want. right now the american democracy is in crisis. and f.b.i. and d.o.j. reputation has been challenged. it is their responsibility to clear this up. handing over and being transparent at all costs is right now what our country and our democracy need. >> jessica: i agree reputation is in tatters but you should add the 65 million americans who voted for hillary clinton who feel like it's in tatters because of what james comey did to hillary's candidacy. >> melissa: okay. >> jessica: she is the one that was hurt about this. >> melissa: a virginia restaurant serving up a heaping plate of controversy after the owner kicked out white house press secretary sarah sanders over the weekend as the protesters target other prominent trump supporters and officials in their personal time.
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welcome back to "outnumbered." new reaction after another white house official targeted in her personal time. the virginia restaurant owner saying she asked white house press secretary and family members to leave friday night. sanders confirmed the incident saturday in a tweet saying it asked by the owner to leave because i work for president trump and i politely left. her actions say more about her than about me. i try to do my best to treat
people including those i disagree with res fectfully and -- respectfully and will continue to do so. president trump this morning tweeting the red hen restaurant should focus on cleaning the filthy canopy, door and windows. badly needs a paint job. rather than refusing to serve a fine person like sarah huckabee sanders. i had a rule if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside. this is as the trump supporter and the florida attorney general pam bondi confronted by hecklers after she left the showing of a mr. rogers documentary and homeland secretary kirstjen nielsen targeted. watch this. >> shame! shame! shame! shame! shame! >> kennedy: can't we all just be hobbits again. everyone has an iphone. nielsen heckled at a mexican restaurant in washington last
week and protesters also marching outside her home. meantime, maxine waters encouraging the harassment of the president trump staffers in public places. take it away. >> i want to tell you for these members of his cabinet to remain and try to defend him, they are not able to go to a restaurant. they are not going to be able to stop at a gas station and not going to be able to stop at the department store. the people will turn on them, they will protest. they will absolutely harass them until they decide that they are going to tell the president no, i can't hang with you. >> kennedy: yes. we will force you to agree with us. how authoritarian. richard, this has gotten a place we are becoming a truly bifurcated society. we are split into two distinct teams. and it's open season. it's actually quite dangerous. >> richard: you are right. we have lost civility in the politics. you can't be a democrat and republican and sit down and have a meal together anymore. that said, i think all the
stories take away from the larger story. the fact that there are 2,000 some odd children that are not with their parents tonight. that is why -- or this afternoon. that is why people are so angry. people are so upset the policy exacerbated by the trump administration and jeff sessions that separated families. >> melissa: this was going on long before that, my friend. >> richard: no, the keyword i used is exacerbated by the trump administration. and the zero tolerance policies. >> melissa: the truth is there is a lot of passion on both sides and once we move on to this place where we are encouraging violence then everybody is at risk and everybody is at danger. >> kennedy: not saying restraint. >> i want to read something from nancy pelosi who did repuke congresswoman -- rebuke congressman waters saying we should try to america beautiful again. trump has provoke responses
that are understandable but unacceptable. >> rachel: a year ago we nearly had an entire baseball field of republican congressmen almost executed. truly, if the capitol police were not there we would have had mass murder on the baseball field. as a congressional spouse, this is personal to me. in wisconsin we have experience with this. we had a recall where very similar tactics were used in our state capitol, screaming "shame, shame, shame" trying to bully the representatives. and using a lot of the leftists bullying tactics. when the recall happened when the second election came walker won by more than the first time. rebel. people rebelled against the tactics. they turn them off. >> kennedy: they really can backfire. when you are talking with veryer -- very irrational
reactionary it's not important. steve calise knows first hand the congresses to make the political differences personal and vitriolic. we are lucky to live in the country to freely debate differences civilly. harassment is never an acceptable method of disagreement. >> melissa: can i say, we sit on the couch here and we disagree. this hour has gotten heated. so everyone knows we could stand up and leave and go have lunch after this and have a great time. we respect each other's opinions no matter how much we loudly disagree. maybe people don't realize that and people don't take it to heart. i would personally die before i would confront someone with an alternate opinion out with their family in public. >> kennedy: my question is and we have seen this turn deadly. this is incredibly vitriolic on both sides. there is no doubt about that. but someone has to stand up and be the grownup in the
room. it's clearly not maxine waters. >> melissa: it's not president trump. they will say. >> richard: thank you. >> kennedy: it is on both sides. >> melissa: it is on both sides. >> jessica: there are so many issues here. we agree about maxine waters and good to see that nancy pelosi is also agreeing. this is not how you deal with people or win elections. what happened with sarah huckabee sanders, and i'm not in favor of her asked to leave. especially children involved. the woman who owns the red hen talked to her employees a number of who are lgbtq. felt it wasn't about the separating immigrant kids from their parents this is about the administration policy about the community they are part of. that is why that happened. these people are paid by us. republicans say this to us all the time. they live off our dime. they are public officials and you should be able to go up to a public official and freely and civilly express yourself, your disappointment about a
policy you disagree with. do i like the shouting and all this? i absolutely don't. frankly for partisan reasons as well. now the news cycle is about that instead of what it should be about, which is about the kids and the policy of the administration. i would like to note and you said i'm going to say trump, he is not the baron of doing this correctly. what he and sarah huckabee sanders did using official account to go of after a small business owner is a ethics violation of the highest order and they will come after him about that. >> melissa: i have to say -- especially in the free market that -- >> kennedy: in the free market that is the risk you take. if you want to go big -- how is that illegal? how is expressing yourself on social media illegal? >> it's a government account. >> it's fine for peter fonda but not okay for sarah sanders. >> melissa: the -- >> richard: this is a government owned account. >> the left losing account when they president trump is
boorish and does all these things that are wrong and the response is i'll be more boorish, a bigger bully and wear a disgusting pink hat. >> it's not disgusting. >> richard: only live can drive out hate, as martin luther king said. that said -- >> but snore -- there is no "but" after that. >> is this maxine waters version of going high? >> richard: i don't agree but you quant say that maxine waters is the only problem. >> not return person said that. >> richard: people at home are like maxine waters is the problem and trump is not the problem. >> but there is a double standard. trump won by being like this. >> we could do this all day. >> melissa: talking about bolton heading to moscow to broker a potential summit.
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national security adviser john bolton heading to moscow to discuss a potential summit between president trump and vladimir putin. mike pompeo says he is optimistic it will happen. bolton was outspoken critic of the russian president before joining mr. trump's team to accuse putin lying about the world events and calling moscow meddling in the 2016 election "a true act of war and one washington will never tolerate."
all right. melissa? >> melissa: yes. >> rachel: what do you say? first, the president's entering into talks in a position of strength. strong economy, strong military. is this the right time to do it or are the optics because of the investigation with russia just not good? >> melissa: i don't think you plan a schedule based on the optics of the investigation. we have all spent time with michael bolton -- "michael bolton." i wish! ambassador bolton on the couch and we know what a tough critic of russia he is. to send him there to do advanced work and figure it out, i think it's the way that president trump prefers to do business. one on one. >> is it the right message to send to putin? now democrats are concerned about russia. >> jessica: if question are going to go i want bolton to go first, i guess is what i say about it. the optics of it are bad but more than the optics of it.
this is a president haslam been resistant to calling putin the thug he is. you should send the most hawkish representatives in advance if you do it. you could also not do it. >> rachel: we had a conversation in the last segment about how encounter and conversation and talking to people you don't agree with. is that still worthy here? >> richard: we talk to people we don't agree with but i'd rather see the president fix the relationship with the canada and germany and mend our allies before we deal with the number one adversary. >> why? they tried to meddle in the election. >> kennedy: i don't necessarily agree with that. i agree with bolton, not in the hawkishness. we're die -- die met -- die owe metrically opposite. this might be too soon.
i appreciate bolton going over there to rationally assess where they are and where we are. i think russia needs more from us than we need for them. >> we owe them nothing. the past administrations met and they had a weird button that restart but we'll see what happened. anyway. the controversial "time" magazine cover royaling tensions in the migrant debate and raising questions about the mainstream media. we debate that next. stay with us. and the first thid was 'are you ok?' they always thank you for your service, which is nice because as a spouse you serve too. we're the hayles and we're usaa members for life. come hok., babe. nasty nighttime heartburn? try new alka-seltzer pm gummies. the only fast, powerful heartburn relief plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly.
>> jessica: "time" magazine doubling down on the defense about the cover of the situation at the u.s.-mexico border. the magazine top editor saying the little girl became the face of the story despite report that the child and her mother were never separated. >> we chose the photo because this little girl became the face of this story on front pages and the home pages and tv screens. >> maybe she shouldn't. >> none of us in the media who used the photo knew what happened to the girl after this moment. i think part of the power of the image is that unknown.
>> jessica: i'm going to lead saying i'm deeply conflicted about this choice. >> melissa: there is no conflicts. in my mind that is the very denation -- definition of "fake news." i was a reporter first. you can't wallpaper over your track with something you are not talking about. you can't put up a picture of a crying child to tell a story of a specific group because you're implying that is why the child is crying. if this is something we would have gotten in trouble for in basic journalism. you can't do that. it's okay they made the mistake but the fact they doubled down on it is embarrassing for them. anyone who studied journalism at all knows you cannot do that. >> rachel: the problem of separating kids from the parents at the border is a serious issue. so they chose the wrong kid to not only the child was not separated from her mother and the story of her mother, she
left two kids behind without telling the father she was coming to the father with that child. so the separation was done by her in her own home country. so it totally -- >> melissa: it undermines the point. >> rachel: undermines the point she was trying to make. i'm sure there were other of kids crying. >> jessica: there were other kids crying. >> richard: but the free press can't get in to see what is happening with the camps. they are allowed cameras in there. you can't see girls or infants so if they were able to be in there maybe this wouldn't the picture. it would be a real picture. >> maybe they could follow up and do journalism and figure out -- >> richard: or the president could stop clamping down on the free press in the border. >> or she cried for a lollipop. >> this is not a j. crew catalog. this is a very important story. and pictures as important as
words. >> richard: i agree but there are not pictures. >> melissa: you can't make pictures of minors in public. >> you want to protect them but then you exploit them. >> the president is standing over the little girl. the whole thing was -- >> richard: but this is a larger problem there is an obstruction of the first amendment on the border of texas. the journalists can't get in there. if they get in, no camera and just pad and paper. this is 2018. we live in a digital rare that they should be -- digital area that they should be allowed in. >> melissa: there is nowhere to take pictures of the kids. you have to sign a release. >> richard: but we don't even take pictures of the cages. >> if they are not with the parents and they are separated and -- >> or they came alone. >> richard: but the press can't even get in to take picture of the cages. >> there were cages for two days -- >> richard: they should never be in cages.
>> that we had that comment and we also have to go. more "outnumbered" in a moment. does this map show the peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales. oop. you hear that? (vo) our subaru outback lets us see the world. sometimes in ways we never imagined.
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what plots they unfold. but only in my mind. over 50% of people with parkinson's will experience hallucinations or delusions during the course of their disease. and these can worsen over time, making things even more challenging. but there are advances that have led to treatment options that can help. if someone you love has parkinson's and is experiencing hallucinations or delusions, talk to your parkinson's specialist. because there's more to parkinson's. my visitors should be the ones i want to see. learn more at moretoparkinsons.com thank you to richard fowler. the one lucky guy. keeping it spicy today. >> richard: i do my best. >> we may have heated moments on the couch but we deeply love each other. and we are back on the couch at 12:00 noon eastern
tomorrow. melissa francis is in for harris. >> melissa: the president sending a tough new message on illegal immigration policy as the top republican warns of potential migrant crisis if congress fails to act. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm melissa francis in for harris faulkner. new reaction as the house hopes to get the version of immigration reform across the finish line this week amid the controversy over illegal immigration policy at the border. the texas republican and homeland committee chair michael mccaul warning of a new crisis if they can't close the loophole in the current immigration law. watch. >> when you look at the kids down there. i have been down there. this is not the first time this has happened. this happened in 2014 as well. congress needs to act to close a legal loopholes that incentivize coyotes to bring the children in to theni