tv Outnumbered FOX News December 14, 2018 9:00am-10:00am PST
>> sandra: a lovely afternoon scylla burning our team ahead of the holidays. >> bill: there are so many great people we work with here at fox, and they make it happen every day. to the viewers at home, thank you for a great year, from us to you. >> sandra: a good time had by all. merry christmas. we will be here monday. thank you for joining us today, everybody. "outnumbered" starts now. >> harris: we begin with a fox news alert. president trump's disgraced former attorney, michael cohen, has given his first interview today since being sentenced to three years in prison on charges including tax fraud and campaign finance violations. now he is stepping up his accusations against the president amid a growing back and forth as the mueller probe drags on. you are watching "outnumbered," i am harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. fox news contributor, lisa boothe. fox news contributor, jessica tarlov. in the center seat, political strategist and former poster for the ted cruz 2016 campaign, not
wearing a beard today -- [laughter] chris wilson is here and he is "outnumbered"! agreed to see you! >> chris: i said it would look really bad if i tried to grow i it. >> lisa: for the record, we endorse senator ted cruz's beard. we are pro-beard and a bipartisan endorsement, no less. [laughter] >> melissa: thank goodness they come together! it's perfect. >> lisa: for the sake of the nation, we did. >> harris: if senator cruz is anywhere near a tv, he's wondering what the heck -- [laughter] >> chris: he will hear about this later. at a christmas party the other night, it didn't go well. >> harris: interesting details during this hour. keep watching. the president and michael cohen trading accusations over hush money payments made to two women during the campaign that alleged affairs with the president over a decade ago. this, amid reports of the president was the third person in the room in 2015 during talks
between cohen and "national enquirer" publisher, david packer, about a plan to purchase the story and avoid publication. the president avoided any wrongdoing during my interview with him yesterday. come on, during an interview with george stephanopoulos, pointed the finger back at the president. watch it. >> i never directed him to do anything wrong. whatever he did, he did on his own. >> he directed me to make the payments. he directed me to become involved in these matters, including the one with mcdougall, which is really between him and david packer. i give loyalty to somebody who truthfully does not deserve loyalty. >> harris: president trump also told me yesterday that he be don mike believes cohen pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations to embarrass him. cohen disputes that. watch. >> i wasn't his only client, he had other clients. he did some bad things.
he made a deal to embarrass me. >> i didn't do it to embarrass the president. he knows the truth. i know the truth. many people know the truth. under no circumstances do i want to embarrass the president of the united states of america. >> harris: meanwhile, some lawmakers on capitol hill want to get cohen die before their committees as he pleaded guilty to lying to congress. they will have some time to do that. between now and the beginning of march the sixth, he can sit out. i think he wears a nickel bracelet but i will have to fact-check that. michael cohen says he knows the truth. i don't think that's a question. i think the question is, does he tell the truth? >> chris: it is. doesn't matter, at this point? he has zero credibility. the fact is, you can't plead guilty to long before congress and expect the american public to believe you. it certainly appears at the president is not concerned about this. he's the one person who also does know the truth, and if he's not concerned, i think it's probably -- they can make all
the charges they want, but who will take them seriously? >> melissa: the truth about what? he says the president directed them to do it. if that's true, that basically clears the president because he used his own money in order to do this. you are allowed to spend as much money on your campaign as you want. a second point -- i can't believe that george stephanopoulos did not ask cohen if he has done this before. i would but the president has paid off other women. in which case, it's not necessarily about the campaign. it's sort of a normal course of business. yes, it's horrible and distasteful, but is not illegal by any jessica, i want to bring in one word. it's "receipts." it's kind of a colloquial thing right now, if somebody does something, get on your phone, get a receipt. if the federal investigators are looking at this properly, they would be corroborating. they wouldn't need much for michael cohen. we need to find out what else. again, that goes back to mueller. we don't know all that he has.
>> jessica: but the fdny filings and the mueller memo were quite clear about this. judge napolitano has been on our network talking about this extensively, that they wouldn't have move toward if they didn't have corroborating evidence and didn't actually need michael cohen for this. we have a third person in the room, david packer, who offered so cooperation with the mueller probe. as to where the money came from for the payoffs, we knew it would be a campaign finance violation. >> harris: to that point -- let me a cut in really quickly pray this is coming into fox news through john roberts. the president's attorney, rudy giuliani, said he never says a campaign finance issue is not a big crime. he is following back, i guess come on dershowitz and others saying that giuliani described the campaign finance violation as "not a big crime." if it turns out that's a problem, it would be a big deal.
even giuliani -- he says that. >> lisa: he didn't kill anyone. i think everyone in the country can agree that michael cohen is a terrible attorney. clearly, he's the one who -- if he's breaking the law or not, that's the point of having an attorney. and why president trump was relying on him to follow the law. in regard to the legal aspect of this, it's up for disputes if president trump broke the law or not. you also have people like former fec commissioner bradley smith, who says he doesn't think there is anything criminal here in what president trump did. i think that is up for dispute. the bigger issue for president trump is a political one. even on that, he has a safeguard in the senate with the 53 republican majority. even if the house brings impeachment proceedings, the senate is not going to convict him. they would need two-thirds, 60 votes, a super majority. with the 53 republican advantage in the senate, that's not going to happen. the way i look at this -- if you step back from a 30,000-foot level -- he doesn't look that bad off here, to be honest.
>> harris: i want to go back to what melissa said. what you were talking about is the actual paying. michael cohen says he would have paid on his own. that's not the case with ami, who just cut this immunity deal. >> melissa: that in and of itself was the campaign finance violation. well, i'm talking about with relation to michael cohen. and another question that george stephanopoulos missed, which -- i don't know, maybe have these questions were on the edit room floor. he missed some of the biggest, most obvious ones. "did you tell the president it was a legal? "nobody's asking that question. he said he told him it was wrong. but did you tell him it was a legal? he says he knew it was. did you tell the president? argue where his legal counsel. >> harris: the president said he trusted him to do his job. >> melissa: he never said he told the president it was illegal. i was the president supposed to know? >> harris: the president told me yesterday, everything we said was on tape. we can roll it if we want to. he said he trusted, he paid, he
pays for services and he trusted that he was getting them. but you ask a very important question -- when your attorney says something is wrong, are we supposed to assume, then, that it is illegal or he wouldn't advise you to do it? >> chris: he does it for you. >> melissa: if you ask "is that legal?" that's what you have a lawyer for. is it legal or is that not? 36 he filed his tax returns regardless of that. >> harris: it comes into import, here. who directed home? >> chris: it's just -- if cohen said "this is wrong," yet he did it anyway, does that then absolve? and the president would say "if it's wrong, why did you go do it? you are supposed to give me legal advice, but you do it anyway." >> lisa: a lot of people out there are saying different things. i think the conversation we are having on the couch proves it's ambiguous and how much legal trouble president trump is in right now. also, campaign finance violations are also typically
met with fines, not any sort of criminal action. campaign finance violations for the prosecutor, there is a very high level of burden of proof for intent. right now it seems like that is very ambiguous for the president. there seems to be a lot of gray area here, yet democrats are trying to act like it's some sort of black and white situation. it certainly doesn't appear to be. >> jessica: it seems to be black-and-white for fdny, and they know better than we do. there are many people who think what you think you, but judge napolitano is not on his own here. he made it very clear yesterday -- >> lisa: i respect them, but there's a lot of different -- >> jessica: he said, if you direct someone to commit a murder, you are charged equally for having directed that. if it's a person who executed i. if he was the one making negotiations, and as harris pointed out, that one was from campaign funding. he did that himself. then he certainly is in trouble. there is also more to it -- >> melissa: that's campaign finance. >> jessica: but that is a crime, yes, usually it is fines,
but it wasn't in the case -- it wasn't present obama saying "do this thing so i can defraud the maker people so they don't know that i was doing these things." >> harris: he did not direct michael cohen. i want to give you the last word. >> chris: the bottom line is, michael cohen has no credibility. very few people are going to take what he says and believe that this is something that even the president should be -- brought to a legal charge, impeached, anything like that. michael cohen has just been convicted of lying. you have to consider the source. as i said with her interview yesterday, the president did not seem concerned about this issue. speed went all right, we will move on. a deadline today for the special counsel. i made a bombshell claim for michael flynn's cap that the fbi pressured him into not bringing a lawyer to the interview with agents. what we can expect. plus, the democrats and the president appear doug-in over border security. about a week out from a possible government shutdown.
a partial one. the bush compromise with time running out >> the need for the wall has never been clear, and yet the democrats are saying they will not fund the wall. ♪ ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy! whoo-hoo! great-tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein and twenty-six vitamins and minerals. ensure. now up to 30 grams of protein for strength and energy! but he has plans today.ain. hey dad. so he took aleve. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. i'm at this wing joint telling people that geico has been offering savings for over 75 years. that's longer than the buffalo wing's been around. dozen wings. and did you know that geico... (lips smacking) offers mo... (coughing)
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♪ >> melissa: shutdown showdown -- president trump keeping up the pressure on top democrats to back the $5 billion that he wants for his border wall, as a fiery rhetoric continues days after their tense encounter in the oval office. the president, in a video posted on twitter, calling top democrats like chuck schumer hypocrites on
border security. watch. speak of the are absolute hypocrites. all along, they have been supporting walls and supporting fences and supporting all sorts of border security. whatever it takes to get border security, i will do it. i pledged that a long time ago, and i will pledge it always. we have done a really fantastic job with what we have. we can do it almost perfectly if we have the wall. >> melissa: the video also includes old clips of schumer, hillary clinton, and former president obama talking up barriers and the need to curb
illegal immigration. president trump saying they won't back a wall now "because of me." and a schumer budging. >> i want to be crystal clear -- there will be no additional appropriations to pay for the border wall. it's done. the president repeatedly promised that mexico would pay for his unnecessary and ineffective border wall. in his words, "100%." >> melissa: meantime, politico reporting that he might back a bipartisan package to avoid a shutdown. the package funds border security but not the wall. jessica, let me ask you from the democrats point of view -- just looking at the facts, moments cutie said $500 billion will build 200 miles of fence. that senate democrats voted for 700 miles. many more than that 215 of double fence. they can get anything right now. in exchange for this money, for
215 miles of fence. why not go to the president and say "i want -- --" and then something outrageous? >> jessica: there is some digging around the world "wall." that has become such a flash flash point. >> harris: so i don't we call it a fence? >> jessica: if he had begun that way, it would be more that way about beefing up border security. nancy pelosi, in that meeting, said "of course we are for border security." and it chuck schumer said "i have offered you $1.6 billion." there is a semantics issue here, but nancy pelosi has made it clear she doesn't want to be in the business of trading dreamers, for instance. >> harris: she is saying "you have to come through me before you go to the senate." and the president is saying "i don't need to do that, because i've got the votes." and they go around and around about that. >> melissa: that's what negotiating is.
you have to give to get. everybody who has studied negotiation or bought a house or a car knows, you give to get to. that's a get it done. let me ask you real quick -- what would you put out there as the offer? he wants to make a deal. he loves to make a deal. he would give democrats something. what is the deal that could get done? >> chris: it's a good question. there's a lot that can be done around border security, but i think he's having a hard time getting around or beyond the fact that under obama in '13, they voted to extend the border wall. now that he is the president come he can't get it through. i don't know that you are going to get -- he is going to put a hard and fast line in the sand on building a wall. he has to to be able to run for reelection in 2020, because it was such a big platform for his original initial election. i think we are probably moving to a shutdown, here. the fact is, for the past shutdowns, we have democrat presidents. they lost out. this is the first time the democrats are being overreached,
and they will pay a price for i it. >> lisa: i say shut it down. it will likely be a partial government shutdown, also the 2020 election is so far away. literally, a month from now people will forget. shut it down, who cares? i think the wall is a noble cause. to jessica's point -- i want to address a couple points that you made -- democrats aren't against striking some sort of deal. they tried to do it with the schumer shutdown regarding spending. nancy pelosi is a little full of it on that. second, you basically proved the point that this is all politics, all semantics, over the term "wall." essentially, all democrats are interested in is denying president trump that campaign promise, his preeminent promise, on the campaign trail. that's what this is solely about. the idea that anybody would be against some sort of physical barrier was already disproven by democrats voting on the 2006 secure fence act. even people like dianne feinstein who previously said democrats were totally for border security -- where are they now? >> harris: can add to that point, they were looking at
caravans at that time. in 2012 they used tear gas in the vicinity of families and children, as well. border patrol has told me that. you can look at dhs statistics on the point and what happened. this issue is not even fresh in the news. this is an issue that it looks like democrats wanted to solve. what happened? what changed? why don't they want to solve it now? >> jessica: i don't think that's fair. i do think they want to solve it, i don't think they like or approve of donald trump's approach to curbing illegal immigration. this goes back to the rhetoric that was used on the campaign trail, where he came down the golden escalator and started talking about criminals and rapists and the life he made about who is coming to his country, going after people on suspicion of crimes. people being separated from their families, kids in cages, all that. it's very emotional and it's important. that doesn't mean democrats don't care about border securit security.
>> lisa: to be fair, president obama also had a policy of family separation for a period of time. that's the whole reason it came into play with obama as well -- >> melissa: hate on , do you get the sense he would give something big and exceed for the wall? isn't it a golden opportunity for democrats? >> harris: unfortunately we didn't get to that topic because we were all over the michael cohen -- i said at the end, "mr. president, i want to come back." and he said yes. based on what we know, to this point -- and you made a point, chris, that the pictures of the children and cages were from 2014. >> chris: yes, they weren't from -- >> jessica: it wasn't an administration policy. it's emotional because of how many thousands of kids separated from their -- >> chris: its emotion created by the media showing the pictures today.
>> jessica: last week, reported yesterday. >> melissa: james comey due back on capitol hill monday to face questioning after revealing that normal procedure was not followed. he chuckled as he talked about that. when he ordered agents to question form or national security advisor michael flynn, this, as special counsel mueller's team faces a key deadline here in the flynn case. details ahead. plus, new signs that senator bernie sanders and elizabeth warren are moving closer to a 2020 presidential run. one senate democrats suggesting that they may not play well with voters in the heartland. we will debate that. ♪ are you a veteran, own a home, and need cash?
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this, after the bombshell claimed by flinn's attorneys that the fbi pressured him into talking without an attorney present. we are also awaiting the government's response to requests from his lawyers that he get no prison time when he is sentenced next week. the president addressed the flynn case during my interview yesterday. watch it. >> they took a man who is a general and a respected person, and a nice man, and i don't even know what he said about me. maybe they scared him enough that he will make up a story. i think it's a great thing that the judge is looking into that situation. it's an honor for a lot of terrific people. >> harris: meanwhile, former fbi director james comey is expected back on capitol hill on monday and will likely face questions about the flynn case after revealing recently that normal procedure was not followed when he ordered fbi agents to question flynn. >> something i probably wouldn't have done or may be gotten away with in a more organized investigation, a more organized administration -- in the
george w. bush administration, for example, or the obama administration. if the fbi wanted to send agents into the white house itself to interview a senior official, you would work through the white house counsel and they would be discussions and approvals and who would be ther there. i thought "it's early enough, let's just send a couple guys over." >> harris: it sounds surreptitious. what is your response? >> chris: it's unbelievable, really prayed the fact that he sits there laughing flippantly about it as though it something we cannot joke about now. you know it's disturbing to me about this? i'm not a conspiratorial person, in the deep state contract to take over the world. it does appear to me -- and this is someone who ran a campaign, was involved in running a campaign that went against donald trump 42 times in primaries. it's as if that affirmative justice and the fbi and figures with power inside there have been how to get him. doing things like this -- i would be disturbed about it no matter who it was. if this was done to members of the obama administration, i
would find a complete be inappropriate. he laughs like it's no big deal. i find it -- it's not right on any level. >> harris: jessica? >> jessica: we've discussed this before. i'm not a tremendous fan of jim comey. i wish he wasn't becoming as partisan as he is now. i don't think it's helpful. we both know that both sides would have fired him. immediately, when they took office. whoever one. what he is saying, when he clarified and said "this is administration, i would have gotten away with it." he was talking about how disorganized it administration is that they didn't put counsel in there with mike flynn. not that 90 mccabe was misbehaving. when mueller releases his findings, we will see what he fix it. it seems to me that what happens now is that republicans are trying to make michael flynn the story. for us to feel that he is the victim and all of this, to move away from what's going on with michael cohen and with the mueller probe. more generally. i think michael flynn, nobody made him lie prayed he decided to do that to the fbi and to
mike pence. >> melissa: i disagree with that, because if you look at what is supposed to be turned over today -- the 302, which, by the way, i don't know how we are reading reports about what is in this 302 when it suppose to be turned over today. how is it being leaked? that's one question. he writes that, clearly, flynn thought the fbi agents were allies. and that they went over and had to how they were going to -- they had discussed how they were going to try and trap him in a lie, and that there was no one in the room. this is all coming from mccabe, he's the one writing this. he is the one who was later found by the ig to have lied to fbi agents and to have lied to call me, and to have lied to congress. >> chris: perjury. >> harris: it was the ig who found that. why, if mccabe was proven by the ig to have lied to all these people -- why isn't he the one that is behind bars? and they even wrote in the 302 that when they left, they didn't believe flynn had lied.
>> chris: that was filed nine months after the fact. it should be done minutes after. >> melissa: if he lied, they didn't think he was lying. >> lisa: hold on just a second -- there are two big points everyone should be concerned about, republican or democrat. the first, sci shouldn't have interviewed him to begin with. the fact that he filed the logan act as the joke. it's a 218-year-old law, nobody has ever been prosecuted. that should disturb people that he was interviewed to begin wit with. the other think people should be concerned about is that you don't have to let a person know that there are criminal things underlying peer that's the biggest problem in all of this. the investigation into the trunk people, as well as russia, was a counter-intelligence probe. also, the special counsel probe his his a counterintelligence probe. the problem with that is that it protects them. one, it's classified. submitter have to
disclose information to the quote dome at court. it gives them a broader authority to go on on a fishing exhalation prayed they don't have to establish it from the beginning. it's me i want to give chris the last word. this piece a good step for me to disagree with any of that. there's a lot more to be concerned about. the cavalier way in which it's been handled, the fact that it's just -- it's almost like they're trying to destroy people 'slides for support. that's what i take away from it. the filings are supposed be done minutes after. >> harris: do you think he gets prison time? >> chris: no, i don't. >> harris: we will move on. challenge accepted -- during my interview yesterday, the president dared a couple of g.o.p. critics to challenge him in 2020. now, a response from the outgoing ohio governor john kasich. the warning from his advisor, and what it could mean for the g.o.p. heading into the 2020 year. we will debate it, next. ♪
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♪ >> melissa: "the new york times" reporting that bernie sanders and elizabeth warren met earlier this week in speculation that each will one for president, according to two democrats briefed on their discussion prad only the two senators were present, and they stated what has become clear to many -- that they are both seriously considering seeking the democratic nomination in 2020. they reportedly did not seek to coordinate their ambitions or to try and talk the other out of running. all this, as missouri democrat claire mccaskill says that she is not sure anyone from her party's progressive wing could win her state in 2020. in an interview with msnbc, mccaskill -- who lost her seat this fall -- was asked whether warren, sanders, or senator kamala harris stood a chance in missouri. watch. >> i do believe that, as a party, what we need to do is make sure that we are nominating someone who is inspirational,
and who can convince the american people that they can make things change. it's very hard to make things change if you are hanging out at the end of the spectrum. if you are on opposite sides of the room. >> melissa: chris, what do you think? who stands the best chance? >> chris: [laughs] i think her staff is trying to get her out of the race because they know she has no chance. she knows the least about foreign policy and own heritage. [laughter] you got people around her apologizing for the way in which she has acted. she hasn't even announced her campaign and it's already falling apart. you got a poll out of massachusetts that show that democrats don't even think she should run. efficacy is a nonstarter. i can't point to -- i don't know how many there are -- 40 or 50 people on the democratic side. they lost, unfortunately. i was looking for to this trump and michael avenatti debates. >> it might still happen. [laughter] >> chris: i hope so!
who cares at this point? i don't know who the democrats would put forward that could win missouri. they won't win. the question is whether they go back and win pennsylvania and michigan. those are the ones they have to worry about. >> melissa: that you are nodding. who do you think is the best? >> jessica: joe biden is the best. >> melissa: he wasn't in the meeting! >> jessica: but that was the progressive meeting. what's very clear out of the meeting is that they wanted everybody to know that no one is bullying anyone out of running. after what happened in 2016, when the narrative was that the dnc worked for hillary, to somehow get her those extra 4 million votes, that bernie was bullied out of nomination and they could go with "he would have one!" >> harris: there was a lot going on. >> jessica: there was, but we don't want that want that narrative again. you see the work that they are doing for bernie sanders already. everyone should take their time and decide what they want to do. we will see who actually goes for demand. we know that -- >> harris: between those two, who would you support?
>> jessica: i would vote for roberts on the ticket, but that's not my side of the party. >> harris: that was dodged like dodgeball. >> jessica: i think that's what any moderate democrat would say. whatever is the nominee, i would support. talk about this before, i think sharon brown should be involved for sure. amy klobuchar is great. i think kamala harris, sharon brown -- >> harris: i had one on my show today. a moderate democrat. >> chris: he couldn't win his own state. you can't nominate a moderate democrat. they will nominate whoever is as far left as possible. >> lisa: we have to think about the dynamics, too come about with the primary field will look like for democrats. i think it will be similar to what they it republicans had in 2016. a crowded primary field. when you have that, you could potentially have somebody who's not even in this conversation, not even thought of right now, that is able to break through. honestly, it's probably the more established people. even if it's more established progressives, that will end up not making it through. in that sort of it dynamic, it's
probably somebody new and fresh. not somebody like donald trump. >> chris: four years ago he wasn't even being talked about. >> lisa: to think you want to roll out this campaign added in this whole elaborate rule out to tell america that you are less native american than the average u.s. white person. i mean, she's never going to be president. that's bad. >> jessica: >> chris: that was unbelievable. >> jessica: president trump during harris' interview yesterday, essentially during republicans to run against him in 2020. this, amid reports that ohio governor john kasich and arizona senator jeff flake may be considering that. take a listen. >> i'm going to bring up john kasich john kasich and arizona senator jeff flake. because they say they may run against you in 2020. >> i hope so. >> harris: thank you. the five and a direct response from kay sik's strategist, john weaver. single buckle be careful what you wish for." he admits he probably won't beat
trump if it was today, but he's not taking the run off the table. watch. >> harris: all my options are on the table and live to see how things develop. i don't want to be doing something that doesn't make sense, where it would be impactful. i don't know how that's all going to be decided yet. we are being prepared. >> jessica: we can all agree, that chair is not a fabulous look for the governor. what do you make of this? do you think trump feeds off of a primary and it's good for him, or do you think it would cost him a headache or two? >> chris: i think it depends. john kasich is irrelevant. if we want to quote somebody, why don't we find somebody who has won a primary or elected a president? when john kasich was tailor-made to men in hampshire and coming only a 15% there. he only got 5% in south carolina and about it. parade in arizona he finished behind marco rubio, who had already dropped out. he's relevant in the 2020
conversation. some could get in and be relevant, but he's not one of them. right now, probably nobody because donald trump is going to be the nominee. i think depending on what happens moving forward, you've had people who have decided at this point to the presidency. you don't have to accomplish what i want to accomplish. right now i think it's a silly conversation have. for anybody to making comments like "be careful what you wish for," they are in search a camera. >> melissa: i think he loves it. harris could tell us better because she was right there. he would love a fight. >> harris: i think it's an opportunity for him to go down his checklist of things that he has accomplished. i also think -- and i asked him -- i know i took a lot of criticism for this, but this was the baseline interview to me. it is my first time with him. >> lisa: i think you did a great job. >> harris: thank you. i interviewed bill clinton in the past, when he came through missouri as a swing state. i asked several questions about why they want or love the job they were about to do or had the
opportunity to do. because their toughest days look nothing like our toughest days. i'm always carries about that, because you got to be able to hang in the room. where i saw him get the most excited yesterday was the idea of running again. we will see. i had a lot of other things i wanted to ask him about. maybe they would have been some excitement about immigration and the wall, equal to but i sort of got a "bring it on" sort of attitude from him. we will see, there's a lot to happen between now and then. >> jessica: what do you think, lisa? >> lisa: look how much he was on the campaign trail. he loves getting out there, talking to people he thrives on it. i don't know if a sitting president has ever done more for the party in terms of the sheer amount of events and rallies that they have attended. spew on we talked about that, that energy. >> lisa: he clearly loves it. regarding john kasich, i think is just a fraud and that's his biggest problem. he tries to say he's this happy warrior, but you see -- he so ornery and angry. that's contradictory to the
image he's trying to have. >> harris: these are not comets you are making based on what you've seen. >> chris: i do it with him, it was -- yeah. >> jessica: in terms of think he's followed through on, he said he has worked with the other side and he has done that in ohio, expanding medicaid. >> chris: in other words, he voted with democrats. >> harris: but so does jeff flake. >> lisa: i think he's an unhappy warrior. >> chris: is there warrior part of this? [laughter] >> harris: the president says he loves what he does because he gets to box-check. he gets to say "i did this, i tried this." >> jessica: the senate is currently delivering two rebukes to saudi arabia, and they also -- rebukes of the trump administration. how they could affect relations with a key middle eastern ally. we will debate it, coming up next. ♪
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michael cohen, to do anything wrong. today cohen is think of the president did direct them to make hush money payments. does come in, a proven liar, have any credibility customer gave former prosecutor will join me to break down. plus, former fbi director james comey is due back on capitol hill on monday prayed one of the congressmen who will him on capital capitol hill jo. a public and matt gaetz of florida, on what he needs to hear from comey about the meal or investigation. watch it, top of the hour. "outnumbered overtime." back to you, melissa. >> melissa: thanks. >> lisa: the senate passing to nonbinding resolutions that standing start contrast to saudi arabia. one introduced by bob corker of condemns the saudi prince for the murder of jamal khashoggi in turkey. president trump has yet to endorse the cia's reported confidence that the crown prince was involved. the other said resolution will end u.s. military support for the saudi-led war on iran-backed
rebels in yemen. it's the first time they have use the powers granted under the 1973 war powers act. a few of the cosponsors, bernie sanders and mike lee. >> is not just the murder of one journalist. it is the starvation of 85,000 children and imminent starvation of millions more. do we really want to be a part of that process? >> i speak for myself, for my role as a united states senator. that is jealously guarding the power that is lodged in the legislative branch of government to declare war. that is significant, and that fight is worth fighting. >> lisa: that resolution goes to the house, which is not expected to take it up by the end of the air. the outgoing ambassador for the u.n., nikki haley, calling out iran in all of this. >> the world's worst humanitarian crisis demands more than hope from the security council that peace will come to yemen. it demands that we take action
to hold all the warring parties accountable. it demands that we address the iranian aggression at the root of the crisis. >> lisa: chris, you deal in the world of optics and polling. how does the public receive all this? >> chris: i think it's are markable, lisa. this is the first time we've seen them take a hard break with president trump on something. as you know, senator lee is a client and a very good friend. in communicating with him and what's going on, if you are going to take a stand on something, this is the right place to take a stand. on both levels -- on the fact that it is wrong, what happened to jamal khashoggi. it's wrong what is going on in yemen. it has to be balanced against -- saudi arabia is an important ally to us in the fight against iran and this situation. it is a tough balancing act. i take pride in what my friend, mike lee, did here. the fact that they are doing this for the first time since 1973. i also have great concern about how we move forward in this situation, because it's not an
easy balancing act. i appreciate the role that nikki haley plays, and i'm concerned for her when she leaves. i hope we have somebody with that level of strength and resoluteness about it. there are children dying in yemen, and it should break all of their hearts. >> lisa: obviously come with the objective of the senate and congress is to try and put pressure on president trump to change his perspective in the wy that he's working with saudi arabia. but will it work you? >> melissa: i don't know, i don't even give them that. i have so little respect for what they are doing. this set up there and vote on a nonbinding resolution quest in markets like the u.n. passing one of these resolutions that has no teeth in it. so you stand up a new hoot and holler, and then you do -- there is nothing backing it up at all. if they really want to make a difference, they should do something else. to me, it's such a hollow action -- it just reminds me of so much that congress does. totally hollow, out there making speeches, who cares? >> lisa: my question to you is, clearly this is a bipartisan effort. no denying that. my question, for the supporters of the iran deal, not doing
business with countries that have egregious human rights records -- but then why were democrats supportive of the iran deal? >> jessica: they thought it was our best option to make sure iran didn't end up with nuclear weapons. there are a lot of people who would attest to that, we will see what comes out of it now that it's -- you know, we have added administration hostile to it. democrats know as well as republicans that you have to do business with people that you don't want to. and who are human rights abusers and all that. the obama administration, in good faith, thought that iran going into the steel was good to make us all safer. i love to see bipartisanship, especially with people like michael he and bernie sanders. those are the polar opposites of the spectrum, and it's a wonderful thing. we also glossed over this -- yemen has been going on for years, and we woke up to it because of the brutal murder of jamal khashoggi. it was a terrible thing, we should have been more concerned three years ago. >> lisa: jessica, didn't you just prove what the perspective is in working with saudi arabia? that he feels is in our strategic interest in the region
to continue doing business in saudi arabia. you just essentially said that's why obama -- hold on, chris, what do you think about that? >> chris: i would say that over iran -- the president did what i thought over the weekend of thanksgiving he did a pretty phenomenal job of laying out the reasoning. i think he did more of this as to why it was important for the united states to continue a relationship with saudi arabia. i think a lot of people right now are questioning the significance of that. i would submit for the same reasons that jessica pointed out -- although they are different in terms of our conclusion -- that the obama administration continue to work with and grant billions of dollars to iran. it was a lot of money. well -- yeah, but -- >> melissa: can i say simply, the reason to continue the relationship is for the sake of israel. we need to have strategic partners in the area against iran, who is trying to obliterate israel off the face of the earth. if you have to do business with saudi arabia to help to that end, because they are the enemy of my enemy, that's who they are battling in yemen.
iran. it is a humanitarian crisis, there must be more that we could do to stop it or to help it. >> jessica: but you could also sanction, something that you are saying. they only respond to money. >> lisa: there were sanctions, as he just pointed out. more "outnumbered" in just a moment but i can tell you liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i only pay for what i need. oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ heartburn and gas? ♪ fight both fast tums chewy bites with gas relief all in one relief of heartburn and gas ♪ ♪ tum tum tum tums tums chewy bites with gas relief amanda's mom's appointment hello mom. just got rescheduled - for today. amanda needs right at home.
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>> chris: it's good to be in newark for christmas. >> melissa: look how crowded it is behind is! we are going to -- let's go to fifth avenue. go to fifth avenue. it's fun. i'm going to drive you over there. >> jessica: that was an elitist comment! >> melissa: we are back at noon eastern on monday. for now, here's harris. >> harris: we begin with this news. michael cohen heading back at his former client and his first interview since he was sentenced to prison paid i'm harris faulkner. you're watching "outnumbered overtime" ." the president's personal attorney speaking out just days after he was sentenced to three years in prison. he told "good morning america," president trump directed hush money payments to help us campaign. at the special counsel has evidence to corroborate his story prayed here it is. >> he directed me to make the payments. he directed me to become involved in these