tv Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News December 16, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PST
(honking) when your craving strikes, you need your wing nut. ( ♪ ) no one can totally satisfy a craving, quite like your wing nut. >> i am chris wallace. a federal judge strikes down obamacare and president trump's former fixture is sentenced to prison. who in the president's inner circle is next fall? >> let me tell you, i never directed him to do anything wrong.
whatever he did, he did on his own. >>chris: what do we know about president trump's involvement in payments to two women during the 2016 campaign and what does michael cohen's cooperation mean for the special counsel investigation? we will ask rudy giuliani. then - - >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security. i will take the mantle but i will be the one to shut it down.i'm not going to blame you for it. >>chris: the president deals with divided washington and a possible shutdown over his border wall. >> perhaps he doesn't understand people need paychecks. >>chris: we will ask our sunday panel if were headed for compromise or confrontation. >> u.s. engagement around the world, there are many reasons we should maintain that. >>chris: we will talk to bill gates. cochair of the gates foundation about what he feels is a key u.s. role in dealing with poverty and public health. all right now on "fox news sunday". hello again from fox news in
washington. we begin with breaking news. a federal judge has the entire affordable care act invalid. obamacare will remain in place pending appeal. both president trump and democrats are calling for congress to pass new legislation.we will get to all that a little later. but first, the president is dealing with a possible government shutdown that's now just five days away. meanwhile, prosecutors are producing more evidence that had former members of president trump's inner circle to plead guilty. >>reporter: even for an administration accustomed to seismic shifts in the administration, it was without a doubt a time of jewish week. but you can prove more damaging than those involving former members of the president's inner circle. three of whom are facing time in prison for a variety of misdeeds. none involving so-called russian collusion. former national security advisor general michael flynn
basing a judge the rest facing a judge. meanwhile, in his first televised interview since being sentenced to three years behind bars, attorney michael cohen claimed he repeatedly lied for mr. from over the years and even set up payments to women to help aid his 2016 campaign. a claim strongly denied by the white house. >> i will take the mantle. i will shut it down for border security. >>reporter: and oval office meeting did little to quell fears of a partial government shutdown of the president's insistence there be funding for border wall.something democrats say they won't pay for. a work stoppage that could come in week where backers of the affordable care act consider their next move. in the wake of the federal judges ruling that the law is unconstitutional. >> if this up in court upholds,
we will sit down with the democrats and get great health care for our people. repeal and replace ends up differently. >>reporter: that ruling by district court judge reed o'connor does not affect obamacare recipients in the short term but it sets up a potential high court battle and that's a debate white house officials would love to have. >>chris: kevin cork reported from the white house. thanks. joining me from new york, the president's lead lawyer, rudy giuliani. welcome back to "fox news sunday". >> thank you very much. >>chris: let's start with michael cohen's allegation that president trump directed him to commit a criminal campaign finance violations in care first is the president and then mr. cohen. >> i never directed him to do anything wrong. whatever he did, he did on his own. he's a lawyer. a lawyer who represents a client is supposed to do the right thing. >> redirected me to make the
payments and to become involved in these matters. >>chris: question, did mr. trump direct michael cohen to pay off these two women or not? >> the truth is actually what michael cohen testified to under oath before congress. and on several tape recordings he made which is the president didn't know about this until sometime into it. he did find out eventually and reimbursed him. but you know, this is a hard thing to do. but even if it were true, it's not a crime. the payment of money in a situation like this has been covered in the edwards case. not only in the acquittal on hungary but the fact that the fcc looked at those violations and determine they weren't violations. >>chris: let's get to the simple fact in question of whether the president directed cohen to make these payments were not. he says the president is not to be believed. here he is. >> the man doesn't tell the
truth and its fan. that i should take responsibility for his dirty deeds. >> wow, that is some lawyer. he was a lawyer in that situation. >>chris: does the president tell the truth or not? >> the president is telling the truth, yes. this man is lying. is that a big surprise that michael cohen is lying? the man said i was fiercely loyal to donald trump. nonsense he was fiercely loyal but he takes him. lied to him.revealed the tape and did something a lawyer i've never heard ever did. tape record his own client. he sat there with chris cuomo and told him he wasn't being tapes. the man is a complete pathological liar that cannot be believed. they will never put him on the witness stand. >>chris: i understand but the
real question is the credibility of the president but not the credibility of michael cohen. let me finish. the president has changed his story repeatedly about whether or not he knew about hush mone . here's what he said on air force one this april, eight months ago.>> did you know about the $130,000? >> no. >> then why did michael cohen make that payment if there was no truth? >> you have to ask michael. michael's my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >>chris: the president says he doesn't know anything about payments. in one of those states you are talking about, where michael cohen surreptitiously taped the president. this is in september 2016. here are the president and cohen discussing a potential payment. let's listen to the tape. >> i'm all over that bit i
spoke to alan about it. when it comes time for the financing - - >> what financing? >> we will have to pay. >> cash. >> no, no. >>chris: did the president know about the payment or not? >> there's a part you're not ã when i first came into the case, we went through the whole case. the president saw notes and documents. thought about it. after the payments to place and before the revelations you are talking about on air force one, the president did talk to michael cohen or people in between and they arranged to reimbursed cohen. this was after the payment was made in after the campaign was over . you're talking about - - >>chris: a conversation in 2016
during the campaign. the president is clearly aware that david pecker had paid off karen mcdougall and they're talking about reimbursing pecker for that payment. >> there's a big difference here. that was a conversation he was asked, middle of the campaign. i was with him back then. working 18 hours a day. i wouldn't be able to remember a lot of things that happened in september 2016. he was asked one time but when he sat down with his lawyer and went through in great details and saw things that could refresh his recollection. we immediately corrected it. nobody pushed us. we corrected it. >>chris: according both to michael cohen and david pecker, he's the head or was the head of the national enquirer. they say they were in a meeting with donald trump in the summer of 2016 in which they discussed
the payment to karen mcdougall. >> we are talking about something that doesn't matter whether it happened or didn't happen, it's not illegal. >>chris: your moving shells around on me. either it happened or it didn't happen? >> that's what lawyers do all the time. you argue in the alternative. i want the truth too and the truth is, the tape recording conversation did take place but it exonerates the president. the president tells cohen, do it by check. i've prosecuted thousands of crimes, never prosecuted something where if they wanted to hide something, they paid by check. that's what that conversation is about but it exonerates him. i cross-examine michael cohen in front of any jury. very important, cohen did not plead guilty to conspiracy to violate the campaign finance laws.
if they were going to use him a witness against anybody, you always make complete guilty to a conspiracy. he pled guilty to a singular crime of violating the campaign finance law. not a conspiracy. >>chris: it references individual one, who was donald trump. this is what you told the daily beast this week. i want to put her on the screen. nobody got killed. nobody got robbed. this was not a big crime. mayor, what's the threshold between a crime and a big crime? >> my statement was about the prosecutors you, not mine. after he wrote that, he corrected that to say it was taken out of context. my point was, there was no crime. even if you take the prosecutors viewpoint, this was the best this prosecutor was appointed, looking at collusion. no collusion. looking at obstruction, no obstruction. >>chris: no sir, this is the southern district of new york. nothing to do with obstruction of justice.
>> they are part of the department of justice. >>chris: i'm sure when you were the u.s. attorney, you didn't take orders from somebody in washington who had nothing to do with the attorney general. [multiple speakers] >> the person in charge of this investigation is rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general of the united states. he is the boss of robert mueller and the southern district of new york been he's the one that determined, let's move it over here. he keeps supervision of it. they're working for the same rod rosenstein.he will make the decision, not robert mueller, about what to do with this case. they are going back now to 1982 -1983. going for business records but my goodness.
they went from collusion to obstruction but no evidence. now campaign finance. no violation of the law no matter who is right about what they said. no violation of the law. >>chris: i want to move on. president trump - - >> you wanted the truth, that's the truth. >>chris: president trump talk to this week about whether or not general flynn lied to the fbi. here he is. >> they took the general that they said didn't lie and they convinced him he did lie. and he made some kind of a deal but now they're recommending no time. know why, because they're embarrassed they got caught. >>chris: does the president believe michael lied or not? >> i don't know if michael flynn lied or not. you've got the fbi saying, at the time, he wasn't lying. then we have no explanation and the guy pleads guilty to lying.
i don't know what happened in between. i do know, they treated flynn in a way that came close to violating his rights.>>chris: i'm asking a simple question. i want to put up a tweet from the present a year ago when he says this, i had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and the fbi. he has pled guilty to those lines. the president, a year ago, seem to know that he had lied and now he's not so sure. >> the president doesn't know that he lied. >>chris: he tweeted that. >> he knows what you knew at the time. the man pled guilty to lying. >>chris: he knows what flynn said to his vice president. >> that was a lie but that's not a crime. >>chris: i did ask if it was a crime, i asked if it was a lie. >> you're going all over the place and you are really confusing people. >>chris: he asked if there was
a lie and he told the same lied to the fbi deadlineto the vice president is a crime . lying to the fbi is a crime. >> and the more important thing aboutwhat the president knew or didn't know . - - it's like if it's reported one of my assistants when i was a mac attorney lied to the court. how do i know if he did or didn't? he knows what he reads. the man pled guilty to lying. i didn't know at the time that the fbi had previously concluded he was telling the truth. >>chris: mayor, you're confusing people. let me ask you three last quick questions. there are reports now that the special counsel is interested again and interviewing the
president. has his office reached out to you about sitting down for an in person interview with the president? >> yes, there are several unpaidparking tickets back in 1986 , 87 that having been explained. >>chris: seriously. >> seriously. unpaid parking tickets. >>chris: does the special counsel wants to interview the president? >> good luck. after what they did to flynn, trapped him into perjuring. i did better on traffic violations than they did with george papadopoulos. >>chris: so you no way, no interview. >> over my dead body but you know, i could be dead. i do have the ãi am disgusted with the tactics they have used in this case but what they did to general flynn should result in discipline. they are the ones were violating the law. they're looking at a non-crime collusion. the others are looking at a non-crime campaign contribution
and they are the ones were violating the law, the rules, the ethics and what he wants to look at them. they destroyed peter strzok and pages texts. 19,000 text. if he had destroyed 19,000 text, they would put them in jail but they can, because he's the president. >>chris: mr. giuliani, thank you for your time. up next, we will bring in our sunday group to discuss what the judge's obamacare ruling could mean for millions of americans. plus, what would you like to ask the panel about president trump saying he'd be proud to shut down the government over a order walls. go to @foxnewssunday and we may use your question on the air. so he took aleve. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. >> a highly respected judge.
on the assumption that thisthe supreme court upholds, we will get great health care for our people. we sit down with the democrats but i'm sure they want to do it and so. >>chris: president trump praising the ruling of the federal judge striking down the entire obamacare law. it's time for our sunday group at brit hume, juan williams, julie pace and marc short. former director of legislative affairs for president trump. the federal justice obamacare is invalid because congress has taken out the tax penalty as part of the individual mandate
which is the way it passed through the supreme court in the first place. but we should point out, the law stays in effect pending appeal. what you think of the ruling and how this plays out politically? >> this is a trial court judge so it subject to appeal. i think it's a interesting legal argument. whether it's because of the invalidation or the zeroing out of the penalty. i think you could hear good legal arguments on both sides of that issue. but i think we know we're here are the last of this. because the judge did not issue an injunction that shuts it down as you point out, obamacare will remain in place. what's left of it will remain in place for the foreseeable future. >>chris: on the other hand, there are a lot of parts that people liked about itlike protection for pre-existing conditions and that according to the ruling, would be out now . >> it would be out soon. i think it's the practical effect. and there is no practical effect for the time being.
>>chris: the president and republicans ran on 20/60 on the idea of repeal and replace of obamacare which they thought was a good issue for them. democrats won in 2018 on the argument, the republicans want to take away your existing conditions. so how do you think this will cut, particularlygiven the fact that it won't have a practical effect but it won't take effect for some guns bombs and maybe a year. >> republicans are on their heels, not really saying much but while you have nancy pelosi potentially, incoming speaker of the house saying democrats will defend it. chris murphy from connecticut sang at the five alarm fire. i think clearly democrats see themselves in the position where there on the offensive with the voters about this. if you take away obamacare after 70 votes by republicans to repeal it. didn't work even with the
republican majority.it's not what you would do away with things like pre-existing conditions, you would drive up premiums for everybody. our healthcare system would be in chaos. i think you get republicans right now, including president trump who initially tweeted great grades. arson we need a bipartisan, collaboration to make healthcare work.that's a different tone from republicans and i think it's telling about who's politically at risk here. >>chris: you are wrinkling your brow.>> i think republicans won on march - - large part on the promise of the repeal of obamacare. >> from 2013-2017, primus went up 500 percent. in the last year, they've gone up five percent. it used to be you had one insurer and that's been fixed.
this administration has provided more choice for people. they've helped to stabilize the markets. that doesn't mean forcing people to buy a product they don't want is good policy. >> when you are not hearing from republicans is any interest in going back to the drawing board and starting from scratch. if ultimately, it moves through the court and its fully repealed, you don't have republicans who want to spend 2019 deep in the weeds on healthcare. >>chris: i will tell you what they will spend the end of 2018 on. there's the threat of a partial government shutdown. here's how that played out this week. >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security. because the people of this country don't want criminals and people with lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. i will take the mantle. >> he's taking full responsibility for a shutdown. perhaps he doesn't understand
that people need their paychecks. maybe that's not the life he needs. >>chris: we asked you for questions for the panel and on this issue of the president think he would be proud to shut down the government, we got this on facebook from linda. why is shutting down the government not something to be proud of if it means protecting the country? that's exactly what we elected the president to do. how do you answer and and as the person who wants to last july used to deal with congress for the white house, what do you think is going to happen? >> if there were a shutdown, it will be different than previous ones. this government has funded the women serving in uniform. it has funded entitlement checks. it will keep the parts open to the average american wouldn't recognize a shutdown other than it would be a media story. >>chris: there's 30 percent of the government and i think 30-40 percent of employees.
>> and every time, they've been paid out in full. i think the average person won't feel it in the immediate future. i think you'll see a compromise come together before the end of this week. i think the president will look to find ways to fund this. but last year, we secured the first new funding, $1.6 billion in 10 years. immigrants come on your show and say we oppose any funding for the wall. they've already agreed to it. all we are arguing about is not what they are, it's how much it costs. and it's not 1.5 or 1.6. >>chris: that's an old joke. [laughter] julie, shutdown or not? >> i think all signs point to some kind of compromise. i think you will have a tense couple days. republicans and democrats i talked to are very uninterested
in the shutdown. i do think the president might be itching for a shutdown. but i ultimately think he will sign on it there's some kind of compromise. you can point to the military and see if that's another option. >>chris: the president made the new acting chief of staff, mick mulvaney and its already come out during the 2016 debate, right after the "access hollywood" tate came out. before he joined the administration, he said this. >>. [indiscernible] >>chris: well? >> i think he had been strategic over the last couple years. he's found a way to work and been loyal to the president
since she's taken a job as omb director. - - so that if this doesn't work out, then he can pull into a category like lindsey graham who was critical during the campaign even after he became the nominee but has found a way to work in office. >>chris: after nick ayers turned the president down, and then chris christie, he almost had to name somebody, didn't you? this was getting embarrassing. >> he was like the guy who couldn't get a date for the prom. but mulvaney is a good choice. he's a very able knows the issues and knows policy and knows the government. >>chris: and he's a happy warrior is a positive guy and
also a guy who may come on sunday talk shows. general kelly treated us like the plague. >> there is some talk that president trump doesn't need the chief of staff. that is nonsense because he needs help from people who noticed town and the issues. it's been willing to accept those advice from those people to benefit. >>chris: all right pamela, i need to take a break but when we come back. as new evidence implicates the president, what are the chances democrats will move to pursuing impeachment? ♪ with one notable exception. ♪
it's proven quality sleep. the new sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999, intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts... so you can get a running start on the holidays. and now get free delivery and setup on all sleep number 360 smart beds. ends monday. so shark invented duo clean. while deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look,
and fearlessly devours piles. duo clean technology, corded and cord-free. and fearlessly devours piles. millions plan for retirement online. estimate your future benefits, apply for retirement, and manage your benefits all from the comfort of your home, and give yourself the freedom to do what you want offline. social security's online services help put you in control with secure access to your information anytime, anywhere, allowing you to spend more time with family, friends, or simply just enjoying the day. social security, securing today and tomorrow. see what you can do online at socialsecurity.gov >> what he did was all unrelated to me except for the two campaign finance charges that are not criminal. they put that on to embarrass me. they put those two charges on
to embarrass me. >> i told the truth and took responsibility for my actions. instead of him taking responsibility for his actions, what does he do? he attacked my family. >>chris: president trump and his former fixer taking shots at each other after cohen received a three-year prison sentence for a number of crimes, including making hush money payments during the 2016 campaign. julie, there are reports the president is more and more consumed by the special counsel investigation. especially as former allies like michael cohen and the publisher of the national enquirer are providing evidence against him. what do you hear from your sources? >> i think it's indisputable that the president is consumed. you really don't need secret sources that you just need to look at his twitter feed. he's following the twists and turns closely. as people get caught up, he gets more agitated.
i think we are announcing almost every aspect of his life, over the last several years is now under some level of investigation but his administration, campaign, and alteration and businesses. the business piece is i think the one that getting to the president the most been being president is part of his identity but being the successful businessman is all the more important to him in some ways. it's how he's defined himself and it's his children's legacy being there at the top of this business and any sign his business could crumble past business dealings could be swept up in this investigation is incredibly personal to him . >>chris: marc? >> i agree 100 percent with julie. i think you have what began as collusion with russia and ends up every part of his life. republicans and some libertarians used to oppose that notion after iran contra and then they fell in love during the whitewater deal. it's a problem we have with prosecutors going all over. >>chris: how about the argument
that is made. we did he republicans complain when it happens to bill clinton? >> i agree 100 percent. republicans as well have been hypocritical. there used to be strong libertarians that use to recognize the problem with special prosecutors. >>chris: so far, the only alleged crime the president is specifically linked to is not collusion or obstruction of just a. it involves campaign-finance violations. here is how democratic congressman jerry nadler, the incoming chair of the house judiciary committee responded to that this week. >> it would be impeachable offenses whether there are important enough to justify impeachment is a different question. >>chris: how persuaded argue that if president trump directed these payments, these hush money payments as michael cohen says he did. that it was i finance campaign
violation. and what do think the likelihood the house and the wisdom of the house proceeding to impeachment on campaign-finance violations? >> i think it's hard to imagine a president being impeached for a campaign-finance violations in most of these are handled with fines. obama had to pay a big fine. i don't think the house of representatives, even such ardent democrats as jerry nadler will go there. the greater worry is some other charge with - - when robert mueller says what he says. that raises an intriguing question which is in this. how far will these house investigations go if mueller doesn't find something serious about the president? my thought is it takes the wind out of their sales but we will have to wait and see. i don't think campaign-finance will dislodge him. >>chris: when you look at all
of this. there is still no hard evidence of collusion. no hard evidence of obstruction of justice. but the walls do seem to be moving in on the president on a lot of fronts. >> i don't think the mother report is going to sing the president's praises read that's not what he needs. what he needs is kind of a report that says, does not outline the major crime.if that happens, i think it changes the atmosphere dramatically be both legally and politically.if he is vindicated on no collusion which is what he's been saying. i've never thought that collusion was the central point of this investigation been when it started, it was a counterintelligence investigation with the fbi acting as an intelligence agency to determine what russia did. if you go back and look at the letter authorizing mueller's appointment, it says, it mentions it picks up that investigation and then says, is also authorized the finder if
there's collaboration between the tubing as a subset to the investigation. i think it's a huge boost for the president if there's no - - in the final report.>> i think the democratic base is so inflamed by president trump, they would think democrats weren't holding to their constitutional responsibility if they did not consider impeachment. >>chris: even on campaign-finance violations? >> who's to say it's just michael cohen making these outrageous claims because he wants a better deal from the prosecutors but in fact, we hear from david pecker at national enquirer. same thing from the wall street journal, the president was in the room. potentially, he would be an unindicted co-conspirator while he's president because nobody thinks you can indict a president but that doesn't mean you can't go to congress and say let's look at this. >>chris: do you think it's wise for democrats?>> that's a separate issue. >>chris: would it be wise if that's all that there was? >> no.
and i think what you will see and i think you see this already from jerry nadler and nancy pelosi.they are not interested right now. but the base of the party is going to be putting pressure there. they think in fact, democrats have been too docile in dealing with trump. >>chris: they want below the. >> you have seen 40 seats switch hands and also a check on president trump was important to voters. >>chris: everybody keeps saying this investigation will be over at the end of the year. i always say, pixie over - - pick the over. thank you paneled it up next, we sit down with microsoft cofounder bill gates. in the era of america first, he
worries about a shrinking u.s. role in dealing with global poverty and public health. minimums and fees. they seem to be the very foundation of your typical bank. capital one is anything but typical. that's why we designed capital one cafes. you can get savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. and one of america's best savings rates. to top it off, you can open one from anywhere in 5 minutes. this isn't a typical bank. this is banking reimagined. what's in your wallet? ...to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. [grunting noise] i'll take that. 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar.
foundation is the world's private charitable fund. giving $6 billion in grants since its founding in 2000 and literally saving millions of lives. the microsoft cofounder came to washington to make the case for american leadership and the need for foreign aid in the era of america first. when we sat down at the chamber of commerce, that's where we began. >> there was a recommendation by the executive branch to make fairly substantial cuts to the
u.s. aid budget. fortunately, the congress took that proposal which would have meant cutting people off from those hiv medicines and decided to maintain the foreign aid levels. >>chris: your wife, melinda, recently talked about that i want to quote her directly how incredibly disappointing it is to see u.s. leadership deteriorating and the view of the u.s. deteriorating because of the egregious things that have been set by this current administration. what is she talking about? >> i hope i know. i think in particular, there was talking about africa and the conditions in africa, not in a positive way.sort of characterizing entire continents. >>chris: you're talking about the blank - - countries. >> exactly.
the u.s. engagement in africa and around the world, there are many reasons we should maintain that. just up a your security aspect alone but for many people, the humanitarian part of it is also they there. and that part is dramatic but it is disappointing when it feels like the u.s. is being short-term and only thinking about its interests in a very narrow way and not being the leader that says, no, we are going to help these countries so that they can take care of themselves. >>chris: the president's mantra is america first. you seem to be suggesting that in terms of america's interest, you've got to look a long way beyond america first.
>> i think the broad definition of our interests, including investing in allies and not doing every transaction as one we have to maximize our benefit. taking world institutions and have them just focus on the united states. what we did in terms of the post-world war ii institutions has been a fantastic thing. that included having a common view with our western allies. if you follow that line of thinking, the idea of helping africa. working on an hiv vaccine to stop the aids crisis. you just wouldn't do it.yet i feel, even in that narrow framework of okay, i only care about how u.s. citizens do. even in that framework, these institutions and alliances, these investments in innovation are overwhelmingly smart things to do. >>chris: since the year 2000, 1 billion people have lifted
themselves from what you define as extreme poverty. you say the first wave was in china and the second wave was in india. before we get to places where the wave hasn't hit yet, what happened in those places? >> one of the first things you want to do is raised cultural productivity. all of the asian miracles, even going back to taiwan and japan and south korea, involved more than tripling cultural output or person. you can move that labor into the city. if you have the right infrastructure, educational investment. then you've got a manufacturing sector of the economy. slowly but surely, you get a very large middle class. >>chris: you talk about the successes and waves in china and india. and then there's africa. you say that by 2050, 86%, 86
percent of the extremely poor people in the world will live in africa. and in fact, 40 percent will live in just two countries. the democratic republic of congo and nigeria. what's holding them back? >> very low levels of infrastructure and poverty. one of the things that drives those numbers you mentioned is the very high population growth. they account for double of birth you would expect. the majority of births in the world will take place in africa. africa has to demand our attention. that's where extreme poverty i filled . that's where stability is difficult to achieve. and we've got to go after these things like neglected diseases, malaria. we've got to help them with infrastructure been in terms of
our humanity, helping the poor. africa is where we will be most tested. >>chris: how do even begin to address these concentrations of misery? >> one of the great achievements in development history what was called the green revolution. new varieties of crops. corn, which everyone called maiz. rice and wheat. people thought india would experience mass starvation because the output went up. they were able to improve their nutrition, even when their proposition was growing. we need to do that same thing for africa. >>chris: it seems that climate change could be the accelerant to all of the bad things in terms of agricultural productivity, global health,
instability, extreme poverty. talk about that. >> for a country like the u.s. which is northern. climate change will change things. we will have more hot days be more forest fires but it's not a threat to our survival. in africa, where you are completely dependent on the rain coming. where there have been in the past one out of 12 years, you will have a failed harvest. the prediction is it will be closer to one out of four years because of the temperature. unfortunately with climate change, not only is it hotter but the rain comes all at once or it doesn't come for long periods of time. you want to say where are you going to get millions of deaths because of climate change between now and the end of the century. you don't look to the united states.
you'll have forest fires and deaths but the significant numbers are in these poor countriesbecause of the subsystem farming . >>chris: what do you say to those that say it's not climate change, it's weather point and the human component is questionable. >> that's impressive. if somebody can say that out loud. >>chris: have you been to washington? >> the amount of - - in the atmosphere is a super important thing. it's important not to over claim what we know because that undermines the whole discussion. but the mechanism of the warming has to do with co2 and methane emissions. that's really not a question. >>chris: i want to talk to you about toilets. since 2011, the gates foundation has launched to the
reinvent the toilet challenge. talk about why that's so important and what have been your successes and failures along the way? >> in many of these poor countries, the capital cost of building that sewer, it's just never going to happen. so the solution would be instead of using that sewer, to have something in the toilet itself which is essentially the processing facility we have universities whose designs we funded. we put in several hundred million dollars and now we've gone to the point where we have commercial companies to say, that approach looks promising now the price of this toilet that does the processing is still 10 times more expensive. it's about 10,000 dollars per toilet. we need to get into the slums
of these african cities. we needed to be more like $1000. >>chris: i want to ask you about your old job is there something of a backlash here in washington against big tech. the growing feeling in washington is that the tech does not do enough to protect users privacy and that it shows political bias. do you see merit in either of those arguments? >> i went through an episode in the late 90s where microsoft was subject to government investigation. >>chris: we remember. >> in a way, it's less microsoft but it's broad. there's nothing inappropriate. i was naive. i didn't have an office in washington, d.c. i thought that was a good thing. i later came to regret that. i'm sure these guys are learning better than i did that they need
to come back here and start a dialogue and there will be new regulations these companies. chris: and you don't have a problem with that? >> the notion that they'll be privacy regulation, that makes a lot of sense. the notion that the ability to identify any one that we will think about, how businesses use that and how does government use that, it makes a lot of sense. chris: apple, amazon and microsoft are right now jockeying for which is going to be the most highly-valued company in the world in terms of market capitalization. at the close of the market on friday, microsoft was number one at over $800 billion, apple 799 and a half billion dollars, does that give you any pleasure? >> you know, when i was starting microsoft in my 20's, the idea that we could create a company that was -- that beat ibm, they
were the big, we believed in cute small machines and they believed in big machines. it was mythic that we were going to beat imb, by the time microsoft valuation passed ibm which is now, you know, 15 years ago, it didn't feel like that big of a victory and -- and so you really -- it's really better to define yourself by aspiration, can software improve education, can software help medicare costs in the u.s. keep going up dramatically, can software play a role there, so, yes, i'm very proud of microsoft and the vision that software and technology would make big things, it's led to the 5 most valuable companies being tech companies. it's a indication of importance
chris: stay tune to the station and fox news channel to the latest on potential end of year government shutdown. and that's it for today, have a great week and we will see you next fox news sunday. ♪ welcome to the journal editorial report. michael cohen was quandt was sentenced wednesday to three years on wednesday. lying to congress into campaign finance violations. this on the same day that federal prosecutors in new york revealed the tabloid publ