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tv   Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  December 23, 2018 11:00pm-12:00am PST

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bret: that is our story. merry christmas to all and happy new year. ♪ chris: i'm chris wallace. a government shutdown. the stock markets in freefall, and the defense secretary quits over a sudden shift in policy. are the wheels coming off the trump presidency? ♪ >> there are chaotic weeks and then there is this week. chris: from the shutdown showdown. >> it is the democrat shutdown. we've done our thing. >> you're not getting the wall today, next week or on january 3rd. to the worst weeks in the markets in 10-year. >> in the world going on with stocks. once going up, up and away, they are slip-sliding away. chris: controversial moves in the middle east. >> it is in our national security interest not to withdraw at this time. this is akin to surrendering.
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chris: that lead to a stunning resignation. >> i am shaken by the resignation of general mattis what it means for our country, for the message it sends to our troops. chris: we'll discuss the current state of the trump presidency with incoming white house chief of staff mick mulvaney. we'll get perspective from a washington veteran, former secretary of defense leon panetta. and is president trump opening himself up to a possible 2020 challenge? we'll talk with ohio's republican governor john kasich, a frequent trump critic. plus we'll ask our sunday panel about new splits between the president and the gop on capitol hill. all right now on "fox news sunday." ♪ hello again from fox news in washington. we are in to day two of a partial government shutdown with no end in sight but that is just part of a turbulent week in washington even by trump
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standards. the shutdown's main sticking point, funding for president trump's border wall. the financial markets rattled by uncertainty over the shutdown, trade tensions with china and rising interest rates. then there is the fallout from mr. trump's decision to pull troops out of syria and afghanistan, that led defense secretary james mattis to resign. in a moment we'll speak with the president's new chief of staff, mick mulvaney but first let's get the latest from doug mckelway here in washington. doug. reporter: good morning, chris. this morning the capitol is quiet and mostly empty after members scurried home late yesterday when it became clear there was no prospect of a deal before christmas. late saturday leaders of both chambers decided to adjourn until thursday. the day had begun with only faint hope of finding common ground on a deal to fund nine remaining federal departments and a border wall. hopes were further lifted after a white house announced lunch
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with members. but the invitees were mostly immigration hard-liners. >> the president is prepared for a very long government shutdown, albeit a partial government smutdown. reporter: senate minority leader chuck schumer signaled his disdain for any funding of a border wall. >> the senate is not interested in swindling american taxpayers. we are interested in meaningful border security, but not a wall. reporter: rattled bit stork markets precipitous dive the president is said to be infuriated over the fed's decision to raise interest rates, asking aides if he can take historically unprecedented step firing fed chief jerome powell. as members of congress rushed home for the holidays, president trump tweeted i will not go to florida because of the shutdown. staying in the white house.
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maga. one of the attendees yesterday's white house luncheon, senator richard shelby of alabama described the president's mood as exuberant. chris? chris: doug, thank you. joining me white house budget director, the president's incoming chief of staff mick mulvaney. welcome to "fox news sunday." >> good morning. merry christmas. chris: same to you. what is the latest on talks of a shutdown and with congress out at least until december 27th. how long will this go on? >> this is what washington looks like. said it was chaos in washington. this is what washington looks like when a president refuses to go along to get along. a fight over border security. a fight over taxes. a fight over deregulation. a fight over syria. this is what it lookings like. i met yesterday with the vice president and mr. schumer. met throughout the day as your story indicated with republican members to talk about where we were in the discussions. we had given an offer, a
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counteroffer to mr. schumer late yesterday afternoon. and immediately i think thereafter the senate went into recess until at least thursday. that doesn't mean it will meet before thursday until we hear something back but i don't think things are going to move very quickly here for the next couple days. chris: so are we talking a week? are we talking until the new congress comes in on january 3rd? >> couple different things. sunday, the government is shut down mostly on a sunday. government shut down tomorrow anyway because of federal holiday. tuesday is christmas. another federal holiday. wednesday is really first day this kicks in. paychecks importantly will go out on the 28th. want everybody to understand. no one is working without getting paid. paychecks go out on 28th. next pay period that is next paycheck elected. i think it is possible the shutdown will go beyond the 28th and into the new congress. chris: democrats are talking about $1.3 billion of border security but none of it for the
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wall. here is democratic senate leader chuck schumer on this subject. >> if you want to open the government, you must abandon the wall. plain and simple. chris: first of all what is going on the democraticside best you can see? >> a couple different things. that is an important line. it is important everyone understands the language everyone is using. the president tweeted out picture after steel fence. the slowly slatted fence with the pointed top and so forth. that is what we want to build. in the democrat's mind that is not a wall. they provided $1.3 billion for barrier we want. they go on tv there is no money for a wall. we want to build what the president tweeted out. it doesn't have to be 30-foot high concrete -- chris: you think they will approve 1.3 billion to approve the steel picket fence. >> steel barriers. here is the problem, recently as two weeks ago they offered us $1.6 billion for the same thing. so they're moving in the wrong
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direction. really good question as to whether or not this deal can be cut before the new congress comes in. i think there is implication here for nancy pelosi's election for speakership. i think she is now in that unfortunate position of being beholden to her left-wing where she cannot be seen as agreeing with the president on anything until after she is speaker. if that the case, i think there is chance we go into the next congress. chris: you're suggesting or maybe outright saying that nancy pelosi and in her effort to insure she is the speaker may hold this up until she is elected speaker? >> that is a dynamic. we've been talking to mr. schumer, leader of the democrats in the senate. the bill is in the senate. the ball is in the senate's court. keep in mind any bill comes out of the senate on this topic will have to have 60 votes or democrat support. i certainly think the speaker's dynamic is in play here. chris: look at it from your side. the president's $5 billion. what is the bottom line? does it have to be $5 billion. there was talk from the president he might except
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2.3 billion. >> i will not tell you what our bottom line. you don't expect me to do that. chris: i would like it. >> there is 1.3. we were at 5 billion couple years ago. the counter offer we came them yesterday was between the two numbers. chris: 2.3? >> we moved off the 5. we hope they move up from the 1.3. chris: president trump has been all over the place on the issue with the shutdown. here is where he was two weeks ago and where he was on friday. take a look. >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security, chuck. i will take the man tell. i will be shut it down. i will not blame you for it. it is up to the democrats. it is really the democrat shutdown. chris: if the president is quote, proud to shut down the government and is ready to take the man tell, why is he suddenly calling it the democrat shutdown? >> first of all he is proud to be having the fight. let's make that clear. he is pointing out chuck schumer voted -- chris: he is proud to shut down the government.
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>> i will get to that in a second. he is proud to have this fight. where we are in the back and forth. the ball is in their conner. we made them an offer yesterday afternoon. senate democrats have the ability right now to open the government and agree to the deal. that is the where the back and forth is. chris: you don't see him flipping when he says i'm proud to shut down the government and now he -- >> they come back to something, ball in our court is different dynamic. right now the democrats the ball is in their court to what they are. chris: you have your own record when it comes to immigration and border wall. here is what you said as a 2015 a congressman. >> sure. is it necessary to have one, sure? would it help, sure? to build the darn fence and have that end of immigration, is absurd and childish for someone running for president to take that view. chris: if building a wall is
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childish and sim split tick for the immigration problem. why -- >> it has to be part -- chris: but it isn't. it is not saying part of it. you're not saying part of the comprehensive immigration plan. >> i think in the quote you just read. chris: that is what you said. that is not what the president is saying. >> a border wall is necessary. we've been on that since reagan. reagan agreed to amnesty for border security. he never got border security. everyone is air with of that we don't want to make the same mistake. border wall is absolutely necessary. that is why we're having a battle. changing our policies on immigration. one of the biggest stories that didn't get reported this week the agreement we reached with mexico agree to keep people seeking asylum in the united states in mexico. so they come to the border right now or at least before this week, they were allowed to stay in this country pending their decision. now mexico will keep them in mexico. that will have a tremendous deterrent effect on people coming to the border. we need a comprehensive solution
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to border security and a border barrier, steel slat fence has to be part of that. chris: one of the reince people here in washington are so rattled this week is because the shutdown comes exactly the same time as the president made a dramatic decision on pulling troops out of syria and drawing down troops in afghanistan which led to the resignation of defense secretary james mattis. i want to put up the resignation letter from mattis which he writes this, my views on treating allies with respect and also being clear-eyed about both malign actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades of emerges in these issues. so, mick, secretary mattis is saying that he quit because his views on treating allies with respect and being clear-eyed about our enemies do not align with president trump. >> i don't think it was dramatic decision. keep in mind this has been something the president has been
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working on since he got office. wait one second. chris: first time a defense secretary has ever resigned over policy in the history of the country. >> i don't believe that to be the case. i this chuck hagel resigned for same reasons. chris: i don't believe that he did resign over matter of policy. >> policy over isis as a matter of fact. but, it leaked out this week. in fact it leaked out apparently from the defense department this is not something done at sort of drop of the hat. the president has been working on this for two years. unfortunate it came out the way it did. it is not a snap decision. not a surprise to anybody. that is exactly what the president said he was going to do. as to mr. mattis's resignation, if a cabinet secretary simply has such a misalignment with the president's priorities he cannot serve him, that is the right reason to leave. you asked me -- chris: i completely agree with you, the point he is saying because the reason he left he believes allies should be treated with respect and we ought to be clear-eyed about our enemies. he doesn't clearly feel
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president trump feels the same way. >> i don't read the letter. the relationship between the two men were fraying. president no longer relied on mattis to deliver the president's vision. i don't have to agree on everything the president asks me to do. as a matter of fact, we're not going to. he hires people that disagree with him because the likes different input. if i'm completely incapable of doing what he wants me to do because i don't believe i can't serve him well. that he -- chris: that is very honorable thing t wasn't just mattis. i want to put up the u.s. envoy to the coalition to fight isis and chairman of joint chiefs who both in recentdation what they thought about u.s. troops in syria. here they are. >> ion at the end of physical caliphate is now clearly coming into sight, a end to isis will be a much longer term initiative. >> we have a long way to go. i would be reluctant to affix a time. chris: they both said that this month. we learned the envoy, brett
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mcgurk because he disagrees strongly with the president's policies a couple of questions, one. the president says in a tweet, he didn't know brett mcgurk. how is it possible that the president doesn't know the envoy who has been representing the u.s. to the coalition for the last two years? >> oh i think that is easy. the because the president is dealing with the secretary of state, secretary of defense. despite what people think the white house is not grand central station. not anybody in the administration gets to see the president. the president getting briefing by general dunford. chris: here is the question, if he went against the recommendations of mattis, mcgurk, dunford, the chairman of the joint chiefs. apparently pompeo or bolton, who he is listening to? >> the president listens to a bunch of different people that. >> is the national security team. >> including people who live here and ordinary americans the people he promised when he ran for office he was going to lead. we recognize this is unpopular
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within the beltway. we recognize it is unpopular with the defense department. it is very popular with ordinary american pe, the people who ran when donald trump -- chris: with all due respect to democracy, i agree with you about that, do they really know, do they really know what the stakes are of pulling u.s. troops out and leaving the syrian defense force to the turkish, turkish slaughter and what the impact will be in iran? we'll make this a plebiscite. >> ordinary americans have no idea about those things. they elect a president so he does. the decision is his. i am not the president of the united states. jim mattis is the not president of the united states. believe mee he gets information on all sides. you can imagine on spending what he sees with me. the fact his decision is not popular with some people is more their problem than is. chris: one more question. the stock markets had the worst week since the great recession
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in 2018. at least two top national security officials resigned this week. there is talk about more resignations from the pentagon. congressional republicans are now breaking with the president, whether it is on syria or saudi arabia or even some of them about how the shutdown happened. does the president understand there is growing concern in washington even among some people in his own party that his presidency is in crisis? >> no. i don't think there is concern the presidency is in crisis. i thought if you were asking me these things were unpopular, people were worried about them. as i said at at out this is president traditional different kind of president looks like. he will not be ordinary president. that is not what people wanted whether they elected him. as things you mentioned fundamentals of economy is still great. the stock market is down. we both know it goes up and down unemployment historic lows, capital investment is high,s about confidence is high. gdp is still solid. fundamentals are good. will it be a rocky road where
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the president is willing to mix things up to change washington to benefit folks back home? yes. chris: mick, thank you for your time especially this holiday weekend. i hope you and your family get a little time to celebrate christmas. congratulations on your new job. chief of staff. i had hope you are more willing to come on to talk to us than your immediate predecessor was. >> merry christmas to you. chris: merry christmas to you. coming up we'll assess what the resignation of defense secretary james mattis mean with relations with u.s. allies
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chris: with everything that is going on in washington, we want to get perspective from someone who worked in this town since the the nixon administration. lee on leon panetta was bill clinton's chief of staff and served as cia director and defense secretary under president barack obama. welcome to "fox news sunday." >> nice to be with you, chris. chris: you lived through the uproar over vietnam. you lived over the crisis of watergate. how much trouble is the trump presidency in right now? >> well, it is one of those moments, if you're in the white house where you really have to look at the situation and try to do what you can to try to provide a little better stability for the country. there is, there is just, too much chaos, too many crises going on. i think it is very upsetting for the country, for our economy, for the world. i just think that, i think this
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is moment where the president really has to focus on what steps need to be taken in order to provide a little better stability for the country. chris: we're going to drill down on each part in a moment. when you look at the broad picture, the government shutdown, free fall in the markets, the real disarray and now resignations when it comes to national security, have you ever seen this particular kind of combination on all these different fronts? >> well, chris, as you know, i have, i have been in politics over 50 years, and in a number of positions and working under nine presidents. i have never seen a situation like this in which almost every important area that is key to this country is confronting crisis, confronting crisis in terms of our national security. i think obviously the step to suddenly withdraw those troops
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from syria, sent a terrible message to the world where the united states stands. i think we're seeing the economy wracked by by crashing stock market in the sense that the stock market is not quite sure what is going on and we have the shutdown of the federal government, all occurring at the same time and raising real concerns about whether or not this instability is going to shake the country in terms of our security. chris: let's talk about the national security component of it first, and your last job as secretary of defense. we have had these abrupt shifts in policy, pulling out in syria, drawing down in afghanistan, the resignation of defense secretary mattis, but, president trump did campaign saying he did not want to be engaged these endless wars. in that sense, isn't he keeping a a campaign promise?
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>> the question the president has to decide whether he up holds his oath of office as president of the united states to protect our security, or whether he simply is going to simply move forward and fulfill campaign promises. the more important responsibility is to protect the country, protect your security. that should come first. a lot of presidents make campaign promise, but when they become president of the united states, their primary responsibility to prosecond our country and do what is necessary to protect our national security. chris: let me push back on that a little bit because we've been in afghanistan for 17 years and we're certainly still not winning. in syria the people that are now criticizing, a lot of them, especially democrats who are criticizing president trump for pulling out of syria, are the same people who were criticizing president obama for failing to
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put troops in. you could argue that, maybe this is the best option? >> well, again, i think the fundamental question is, are we going to deal with the threats to our country. 9/11 was an attack on the united states of america. we lost 3,000 people, over 3,000 people that day. we went to war as a result of that. confronting al qaeda, bin laden, and now isis. we have made good progress in that fight, but it is not over, and so, to suddenly declare victory when we have no victory. we have made good progress, no question about it. we made tremendous gains. this is not a time when, you're dealing with terrorist groups who can reorganize, and threaten the security of our country. this is not a time to back away from that responsibility and that i think is, the message
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that concerns me. we're sending a message to isis, that somehow, they can come back, they can be resilient. they can, at some point come back and attack us and, have us vulnerable to another 9/11 attack. that is unacceptable. chris: let's talk about the shutdown. you worn a lot of hats during your time in washington. you were a budget director, for bill clinton be back in the '90s. look, the border wall, five billion dollars for the border wall. the democrats are saying they will if i give 1.6 billion for r security, president wants 5 billion for the border wall. couple questions. how much is politics, how much is policy? , when i say politics and policy on both sides, as someone who lives in california, knows about the difficulty of trying to control illegal immigration, what is a wrong with a border wall? >> well, i have never quite felt an 18th century solution
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applies to the 21st century in terms of building a wall. i do think it is important to have strong border security. i do think it is important to develop, in many ways the technology and other steps necessary to create what should be a virtual wall. the idea of spending $5 billion to build a wall, as we know any wall is vulnerable to the highest ladder that goes over that wall, is just politics. i realize he made a promise on this. but, what is playing out now in washington, is a political confrontation between the president, and the democrats and the american people are paying the price for that. i mean, there are innocent people now, as a result of this shutdown who are being hurt. innocent men, women, children, families at christmastime. why take it out on them?
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the challenge of a president and a leadership in the congress on both sides of the aisle is to sit down and resolve these issues. and to deal with it. and yes, you know, i understand the different positions but what's missing in all of this is a comprehensive approach to immigration. that is what's needed. that is what's always been needed. you can't just solve this problem with a wall. you have to deal with every element that is broken now in our immigration system. chris: finally, sir, i've got less than a minute left. i know that you have a lot of disagreements on policy, and probably on behavior, conduct with this president but after this week, and what you've seen, whether it is the shutdown, or abrupt 180-degree turns on syria and afghanistan, do you have any doubts about donald trump's fitness to be president? >> you know, chris, i believe deeply in the office of the
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presidency and regardless of who is president, i want that president to succeed, because, if that president does not succeed the country pays the price. so what i would like to do is see president trump recognize the chaos and crisis that we're in right now. this period of tremendous instability, that is hurting the country, in terms of our security, and our economy. and takes steps, appoint a strong chief of staff, not just an acting chief of staff, appoint a strong secretary of defense. chris: right. >> abide by the policy-making process that is important to the white house. do what is necessary to be a strong president in the united states. that is what i want him to do. chris: secretary panetta, thank you. thanks for sharing your weekend, with us. sir, to you and your family, merry christmas. >> and a merry christmas to you, chris and to all of your viewers. chris: up next, we'll bring in
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our sunday group to discuss one of the wildest weeks of the trump presidency. plus what would you like to ask the panel of what resignation of defense secretary mattis means for the trump white house? go to facebook or twitter on "fox news sunday." we may use these folks, they don't have time to go to the post office they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the amazing services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again! i live to fight. [hissing] and i fight to live. [hissing] i went to 45 doctors
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>> let's work together. let's by partisan and get it done. >> this may be the most chaotic week in the hit of the presidency of the united states. chris: president trump, senate democratic leader chuck chuck striking very different notes about the events in sunday. time now for our sunday group. katie pavlich, townhall.com. mo elitheee, susan page of "usa today," and fox news
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correspondent gillian turner. katie i will ask the same question i talked to leon panetta, how much trouble is the presidency now. >> we take weeks and blow them up into the entire presidency. the president made a number of difficult decisions with serious risks an consequences potentially on the government shutdown and in syria. but when it comes to blowing out of proportion saying that this is going to be the end, will not be reelected. government shutdown will affect the next election i think is overblowing quite significantly. there are serious questions on both ends of the aisle on decision to pull out troops in syria. 10 days ago brett mcgoerring, this is not -- chris: u.s. envoy that the president trump did not know. >> he was saying 10, 12 days ago, we have gained significant ground in syria but isis is not defeated and we need to make sure that we sustain the gains we have made so they're not for
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nothing. you've seen lindsey graham come out obviously, talk about consequences of this. there have been republicans who are questioning whether we need to be leaving now. eventually they do want to leave they understand that president trump made this promise on the campaign trail but they look at history, shows barack obama also made a campaign promise that he was going to take troops out of iraq which of course led us to this point now. chris: of course president trump hammered obama for doing exactly that. >> right. chris: let me switch to mo. there have been a lot, as katy points out a lot of disruptive weeks in this presidency. you heard mick mulvaney that is why people elected him to be a disruptor why, or you don't believe it is this week is different? >> we're actually seeing what the trump brand of disruption actually means. for a lot of people it is disconcerting at best. we're seeing it both in the national security front with general mattis's departure,
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mcgurk's departure and pretty, a pretty difficult decision, vis-a-vis syria. we're seeing it on the economy with the stock market really taking a nosedive. and it is not just this week not this week happening. there is negative trend conversing what happened in china. that all began with the trade war. we're beginning to see some of the impact of chaos. it is, it is disconcerting. i agree with katie we do have a tendency to take a look at a week, look at a snapshot in time try to extrapolate what it means. we should caution against that. the problem is, every week is chaotic, and every week feels disconcerting this one particularly bad. and but that accumulation is having a real impact on both politics an policy. chris: we have had other shut downs, bad weeks or even bad months in the stock market. clearly, set this week apart, set as lot of people here in
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washington's teeth to rattling was the sudden, abrupt shift pulling troops out of syria, drawdown in afghanistan, that led to the resignations of first, secretary mattis, and then now the special envoy brett mcgurk. we asked you for questions of the panel. on this issue, of mattis quitting we got this tweet from troy. no current military officers with mattis's experience will be aligned with the nationalist america first president. so where does trump go to find a replacement? gillian is former staffer on the nse, for both bush 43 and for obama. how do you answer, troy? >> there is option already on the table in place ready to go, that is patrick shanihan who is mattis's current deputy. he is somebody tightly aligned with president trump on most military matters. he is a business guy like the president. he views his mission as fulfilling the president's vision. he supported the face space
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force, military brass did not support. there will a secretary of defense. there will not be a crisis of no leadership at the pentagon. the question is, is he going to find a republican that is going to get in line with his agenda because the drawdowns he is talking about lately coming down from joe biden. drawing down from afghanistan, syria, all in one guy. chris: pick up on the issue of republicans because the other thing that set this week apart this was the week when a lot of congressional republicans sharply and publicly broke with the president, whether it was on precipitating the shutdown and especially over pulling troops out of war zones. here is republican senator lindsey graham. >> in this war, you will not win it by quit, by giving up. this is akin to surrend did iing. chris: susan, how much trouble do you think the president is in right now?
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he is clearly satisfied some republicans with this decision to shut down but that also ticked off a lot of republicans who felt gotten assurance from mike pence he would sign the clean cr to kick it down to february? how much trouble is he in with congressional republican. >> he is pretty isolated. members of congress he invited to talk about shutdowns, not only no democrats, republican leadership was not. there the most conservative forces in the republican party and congress who met with him. i think that contributes to the sense of isolation. one of the things that concerns people watching the president, not just people who wish i am ill, he seems isolated who he is talking to, who he is listening to and policies that he is pursuing and one big problem the president has. his too big safety nets for past two year seem to go away. one is the good economy. the second has been republican control of congress. chris: let me just pick up on that, katie, we have a about a minute left. the president reportedly agreed to what was going to be a clean
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cr. we'll fund this until february 8th. mike pence the vice president told republican senators that. you have john cornyn, the number two republican senator, says he will sign the cr. he took this huge deluge of criticism from rush limbaugh and other talk radio hosts and also from the house freedom caucus. that move, was that basically about i'm going to shore up the my core base here? >> well, i don't think it is only that democrats were saying they were getting a lot out of president in this deal that they never thought that they could. president trump in march was promised that this border wall funding would be available at the end of the year. and here we are now, he can't get $5 billion he was promised never have to sign something gone without it. chris: talking about the shift though. we have 30 seconds. where he was from early -- >> everybody is surprised that donald trump changed his mind at last minute. you haven't been paying attention how he operates. when it comes to leverage he is obviously using the government shutdown as leverage at a last
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minute, he knows, if he doesn't get border wall funding now it will not certainly happen when there is democratic house because they can't negotiate with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer at this point in time to get $5 billion of fencing which they voted for before. chris: the bad news. we have to end this panel. good news we'll probably be talking about the shut down next sunday. see you next sunday. have a merry christmas. all of you. outgoing ohio republican governor john kasich on his today is the day you're going to get motivated... get stronger... get closer. start listening today to the world's largest selection of audiobooks on audible. and now, get more. for just $14.95 a month, you'll get a credit a month good for any audiobook, plus two audible originals exclusive titles you can't find anywhere else. if you don't like a book, you can exchange it any time, no questions asked. automatically roll your credits over to the next month if you don't use them.
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chris: fallout from the midterm elections will hit washington in the new year, democrats take control of the house. within weeks, we'll be into the presidential campaign with democratic candidates starting to announce. but how certain is it president
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trump will be the republican nominee? joining me now, ohio's outgoing republican governor, john kasich a trump critic, whose name has come up as a potential challenger in 2020. governor, welcome to "fox news sunday." >> thank you, chris. chris: you heard what we're talking about this hour, the shutdown, markets, resignations over the president's foreign policy shifts, what do you make of the situation in washington right now? >> well, chris it is so much dysfunction, you know. i was just saying to one of the people with me this morning, as governor, what if my communications director, my, half of my cabinet, or even significant numbers of my cabinet started to leave, it would create great chaos. we would have a great difficulty getting anything done. it would communicate chaos throughout the state and in the legislature, whatever. so, it is, it is very disturbing. and, you know, the implications of what all this means long term for our foreign policy, for our
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domestic agenda is really up in the air. it concerns me a great deal. chris: but president trump campaigned on building a a wall. he campaigned, he promised the american people he was not going to keep troops, he would pull them out of endless wars like afghanistan. isn't he doing telling the american people what he would do? >> chris, as you know, a president just can't get everything they want anymore than a governor can get what he or she wants. the fact of the matter i don't understand why he didn't make a deal. in other words, give me a couple billion for the wall, which is more than they had previously been agreed to, and in exchange for that we allowed the daca people to stay and people who didn't come here any other way but on their own to be able to stay in america and not be given the threat of being deported. that is a deal that maybe they could get, that he would get. i don't know why he hasn't done that. that makes a awful lot of sense to me. in terms of syria and troops, i
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think what everybody is objecting to is the precipitous nature, not informing your allies. not talking to the people who critically we need in this world. and, but let's also face in syria the fact that whole operation has been a mistake for many years. the obama administration ignoring the red line was a disaster. we've lost influence in syria but the precipitous nature of that withdrawal, without finally defeating isis or making sure they can't reformulate, it's a terrible mistake. chris: all right. let's get to the main course here. there is a lot of speculation, on whether or not you're going to take on president trump in 2020. and hire's what the president had to say about that. >> i'm going to bring upjohn case i can and arizona senator jeff flake. because they say they may run against you in 2020. >> i hope so. >> what do you say to kasich or flake. >> -- in the history of politics. chris: will you run against president trump either as a
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republican in the primaries or as an independent? >> chris, as you know all options are on the table. we look every day, i have a team of people who look every day at the factors that go into consideration like that. and, you know, we assess it. at some point i will make a decision and i will give folks full disclosure about how i arrived at a decision and what it is but at this point, again, all options are on the table. i want to finish my job as governor, have a few weeks left and then, we'll see what develops you know in terms of the politics in our nation. what i'm most concerned about, chris, having a a voice. when you look at secretary mattis' letter for whom two years, you cannot ignore your allies, do thing on youren, america first. saying for two years doesn't make any sense to engage in trade wars particularly with our friends. a lot of things you're hearing
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from other republicans is what i'm saying for over two years. what i'm concerned about is the division in this country. i don't like that. people have very serious problems. i grew up in a neighborhood where i understand the problems of people who have been left behind but you can either tell them that they're the victim of somebody else or you can tell them, yes, you have a problem and we can fix it. let's think about ohio for a second. you know the republicans lost in illinois, they lost in wisconsin, they lost in michigan and pennsylvania and they won everything in ohio because we have had a program of hopefulness, up jobs, including people who have traditionally been ignored that is the road map. so i'm positive about the fact that we can help people, including the people that live in lordstown where gn announced a a plant closure. i try to give them hope we can see better tomorrow. chris: we have a couple minutes left. i want to do like a lightning round. >> sure. chris: would it be fair to the say the idea of running for president is underactive consideration? >> yes.
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chris: you can go on a little longer than tha. >> we have to assess whether my voice can help this country. all options are on the table. i'm proud to a republican. i'm concerned about the party, they got smashed in midterms, that they moved away from the road map my team created here in ohio. we are actively thinking about it. i can't tell you when exactly we'll make a decision but we'll let you know. chris: would you run as a republican or might you run as an independent? >> if all options are on the table chris, that means they're all on the table. we have to see the development here that is the only thing i can tell you at this point. i'm not trying to be coy. we are seriously looking at it. my folks talk and meet every week about it. people involved with me politically and in the end i'll make a decision. chris: do you think that you could possibly beat donald trump in republican primaries? he has tremendous approval among people in his own party?
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>> well, chris, look, one thing that we know from your panel is every week it's a new story. we don't know what things will look like in the next month, the next two months, or the next six months. we just don't know how that is all going to work. so, the way we might look at it today is, frankly, we can't look at it today. you have to think about what it will look like somewhere down the road. chris: well you say down the road, that is my last question in this area which is, is there a drop-dead date you feel you have to make a decision? >> no, we don't feel, we don't feel there is one. we have to see what the circumstances are. and again, it is about my being able to have a positive impact. if i assess that i would have a significant, positive, impact in helping the country that is one thing. if i assess it, think, well, maybe i won't, it leads to another decision but it's a way off. chris: okay. >> at this point we don't know. chris: less than a minute left. right now you're in a veto fight with your own republican legislature. you vetoed a bill that would
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have allowed abortions when people can hear a fetal heartbeat. you vetoed a bill that would have given gun owners more rights which raises the bigger concern about you politically, which are you too moderate for today's republican party? >> look, first of all i signed a lot of pro-life legislation in this state. that is a fact. i don't want to pass something i think would be probably ruled unconstitutional. secondly i'm for the second amendment but let me tell you this, chris, if you see somebody who is unstable in your business or your family, and you think they pose a threat to people around you and you can go to court, i think their guns should be taken. that is not against the second amendment. that is common sense. i can't get that done. i'm not signing anything else until i can get that done. chris: governor kasich, got to leave it there. >> merry christmas. happy holiday. see you soon. chris: you took it all away from me. same to you and your family. >> all right, sir. chris: our power player of the week. honoring america's veterans this holiday season. plus another visit from the wallace grandkids.
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♪ it is a christmas tradition to share a story how one family found a way to express the meaning of the holiday season. a moving example of love for our country and personal generosity. once again here is our power player of the week. ♪ >> he wouldn't have the
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opportunities if it wasn't for the people that fought for us and gave their lives for us. chris: it is that plainspoken wisdom drifting moral woosetr for years, on a mission that touches america's heart. each december he places wreaths at arlington national cemetery. a thousands of people are there to help him. >> a lot of people think like i do. they appreciate the veterans. they want to show it. chris: this story begins back in 1962 when worcester, a 12-year-old paper boy from maine won a trip to washington. what impressed him most was arlington, its beauty, dignity and rows and rows of graves. >> everyone represents a life and a family and a story. they're not just tombstones. i mean those are all people. chris: 30 years later in 19992 he was running his own wreath
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company in harrington, maine but as christmas approached he had a bunch left over. >> these are real fresh, right just made and i didn't want to throw them away. chris: he thought of arlington and all those graves. when the cemetery approved, he and a dozen volunteers drove the wreaths down and laid them on the headstones. so it continued for years until a few christmases back, when an air force sergeant took this picture, which ended up on the internet. >> it kind of struck a nerve. people emailed it to each other. an it really went around the world. one right there. chris: we were there the next year as he and his workers at the worcester wreath company loaded up 5265 wreaths. then they embarked on what worcester calls the world's longest veterans parade. 750-mile journey at some points attracted more than 100 vehicles. when they got to arlington, so
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many people wanted to participate. >> this ceremony you are about to witness is an army wreath-laying ceremony, to be conducted for the worcester wreath company. chris: for years worcester paid for all of this out of his own pocket. he started wreaths across america, sending hundreds to cemeteries war memorials around the country. but he will need help to reach his new goal. >> i think about 2.7 million graves. that's a tall order to decorate 2.7 million graves. so -- chris: you would like to do it, wouldn't you? >> i really would, sometime. i don't know how. hey -- chris: how long are you going to keep doing this? >> i will keep doing it for as long as i work and then i know my family is going to continue. it will be here for a long time. chris: this is the 27th year morel worcester taken on his christmas wreath project. this year volunteers placed
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1.8 million wreaths on veterans graves at over 1600 locations in all 50 states, including in the rain and cold at a arlington. and for the first time placed american-made wreaths at the american cemetery in normandy, france. now another christmas interest is d here is a look last few years as at the wallace grandkids as they keep getting bigger and bigger. here they are again but something feels different this greer -- year. this is james, william, caroline, what am i forgetting? >> jack. chris: jack wallace making his television debut in his christmas outfit, aged 3 1/2 months. from our family to yours, have a very merry christmas and we'll see you -- >> next fox news sunday. chris: very good. all right, guys, three, two, one, merry christmas.
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howie: on the buzz meter this sunday, a rare revolt in the conservative media. abandoning president trump by averting a shutdown by not funding a border wall. they drew a line in the sand and said if there is not a shutdown, we'll look like a loser. >> this is a textbook example of the media calls cam pro mice. trump gets nothing and the democrats get everything. >> i think not funding the wall will go down to one of the worst things to happen to this administration. forget

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