tv Outnumbered FOX News January 25, 2019 9:00am-10:00am PST
it was a hectic morning outside of his own. >> bill: since about 6:00 a.m., before the sun came up early today. we will stand by for that. watching of action throughout the day here. >> sandra: heck of a weak! [laughs] that's a wrap for us. we will see you back your monday morning. "outnumbered" starts now. speed when we begin with the fox news alert. we are expecting comments from former trump political advisor roger stone or his attorneys possibly this hour. after his arrest in florida this morning in a predawn raid. stone is facing several charges including obstruction, lying, and witness tampering in a rush investigation as we are getting the reaction paper will bring that life. this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, fox news contributor rachel campos-duffy. fox news contributor morgan ortagus. and, fox news contributor jessica tarlov. joining us in the center seat, andy mccarthy, former u.s. attorney and fox's contributor as well. and he is "outnumbered."
let's get right into this indictment, which you have been going through. roger stone, released on a $250,000 bond, his passport taken, told through his people moments ago that he will speak this hour or someone on his behalf. would you be expect to hear as you take a look at this indictment? >> andy: ordinarily what we did expect is that you have no comment. or that they would advise them not to have comment. but stone has made so many statements at this point, he probably figures that ship has sailed and he's going to go down being as aggressive as he has been all along. i think he's got some points to make going through the indictment. to me, the consequence of this to stone is far less important than the consequence to the country. i look at this indictment, i think, "don't has got some cards to play, but he's got big problems." there are some things, some documentary evidence, things that were said that were
misleading. he clearly put pressure on people not to testify and provide information to congress. the important thing about this indictment is, as you read it -- and if you consider in conduction doughnut conjunction with the two filings by mueller -- they have to have been known for over a year previously over a year, that there was no conspiracy between the trump campaign and the kremlin. that was the reason this whole investigation got started in the first place. if you read this indictment, this is a bunch of bozos who don't even know what wiki wikileaks has come a much lesser in codes with carmen. which is why it got lunch in the first place. given that they violate the fbi, violated their internal protocols in february of 2017 by going public announcing the existence of the investigation and, unbelievably, think the
term campaign was a subject of the investigation on suspicion of being in coordination with the kremlin, they had an obligation at some point in time to issue an interim finding. that said, "look, we're looking at a lot of stuff you. obstruction, false statements to investigators, all these things. but, there doesn't appear to be any evidence of conspiracy --" >> harris: however they do that, though? >> andy: they created this impression that there was. >> harris: you had to have been assuming, andy, wouldn't you? that they can what people think? this is investigation. we saw with james comey, he stepped out and really stepped steps on hillary clinton with that. democrats were all mad about that. >> andy: harris, if they didn't care about what people thought, why did comey and the public hearing before the house intelligence committee in march of 2017 make the extraordinary announcement that the fbi was conducting an investigation of
russia's cyber intelligence interference in the 2016 election and gratuitously add that aspect of that investigation was any trump campaign coordination with russia's effort? if they didn't care what people think, why come out and say that? against all the rules? >> morgan: what about the "was directed" line in the indictment customer and i think a lot of people are zeroing in on that city. it appears a senior campaign official directed on the campaign to speak to roger stone -- i think that's what -- >> jessica: it was steve bannon directing waterstone to speak to wikileaks. and we know that they have connections to russia. >> andy: that's icky political stuff. >> jessica: isn't it actually working with a foreign power? they are trying to get dirt on the clinton campaign. that's what it was. >> andy: right, trying to find out what wikileaks has. white >> jessica: publicly saying, "hey, wikileaks, if you are listening, emails will be
great." >> harris: we have a lead look at the screen right now. what we are waiting for is we would are being told that roger stone or somebody representing him, potential himself, though. these are reported to who gathered outside the offices of roger stone. he was in federal court this morning, remember, on a multi-charge indictment. our phil keating is in that melee that you see with all of the reporters there, in fort lauderdale, florida, with all this. bill, i don't know if you can hear this, but i want to hear from you momentarily and we will come back to you for a full report after whoever ends up speaking. >> it's going to be roger stone. >> harris: well, that's definitive. thank you. [laughter] >> it's going to be him, yeah. >> harris: if that's the only thing you say, that was important. perfect. [laughter] >> it's a roger stone spectacle. he's coming. >> harris: what happened in court? >> at 11:00, one hour ago,
roger stone arrived with two of his attorneys for his first court appearance after being indicted by that d.c. federal grand jury on seven counts. these are those counts. five counts of making false statements, one count of obstruction, and one count of tampering with a witness. earlier this morning, at around 8:30, the suv came in come into the sally port of the u.s. courthouse here in downtown fort lauderdale. that was carrying roger stone inside. just a couple of hours after he was rudely awakened at his home in fort lauderdale by the loud sums of about a dozen fbi agents. you can see the crime scene tape for hours this morning in the neighborhood of his house as agents really wanted to keep onlookers and media away from the home. i'm not sure whether fbi agents were executing search warrants and there, however, they did execute a search warrant at his nearby oakland park office.
that's over. the agents have now left the scene. as far as that crime scene, the crime scene tape -- i believe it's still up. but roger stone, longtime political dirty trickster as he likes to call himself -- he is also a longtime friend and advisor, politically, to president trump. he was so when president trump was candidate trump. that is, of course, what much of this indictment focuses on. activities that have ended 2015 to 2016, during that hotly-contested presidential campaign between president trump and president clinton. roger stone was on tucker carlson just two nights ago. he has been in our office, actually, in the past few months. he told tucker, "you know, this entire investigation of me has taken a very personal toll. especially financially." take a look. >> literally millions of dollars
have been spent. i believe all my emails, text messages, phone calls in 2016 and since have been scrutinized. to date there is still no evidence of russian collusion, wikileaks collaboration, or any other illegal act in connection with the 2016 election or anything else. this has been financially devastating. >> so a very dramatic morning outside of roger stone's house has has now led to this roger stone spectacle right outside the federal courthouse. as word has spread that he is going to come out, go to the microphone stand as you can see down there. all of the media is here. local, national, international media. we've got spanish-speaking language stations, and you've got in the crowd pro-stone people, anti-stone people, pro-president trump people, anti-president trump people. it is a bit of a small circus over here right now as they are waiting for roger stone to come
down. typically he is very dapper lee dressed, but he left the house this morning in the custody of the fbi agents and a navy blue polo shirt, jeans, shackled. in the courthouse, he was shackled in the courtroom in front of magistrate lorena's now. shackled at the wrists, as well as the ankles. he didn't say much, just some polite, "yes your honor," when he was asking him if he understood the charges. she could have open this up to the government, offering to argue that they would not release roger stone and deny him any bond. but apparently both sides agreed before the 11:00 a.m. first court appearance that they would not do that. he did have to sign his name to a $250,000 a surety bond. he doesn't have to put up any money for that, he just has to
sign it. if he doesn't show up for later court appearances, then he would have to be paying that money back via a lawsuit. he is not restricted to travel, only in south florida or in d.c. or eastern virginia. it is widely expected this case, and other the first court appearance is over, will then transfer and he will be transferred up to washington for the duration of what comes next for him in the courtroom. for those seven charges, any of which, if he's convicted, could bring some serious prison time in the federal penal system. any second now, roger stone will come down here. he is always bombastic on television. we are expecting a bit more of a classic roger stone appearance. thank you. >> harris: phil, we are going to open this up a bit. rachel and i have some questions for you. i want to start with reports that there may be other properties that were looked at of roger stone. what do can you tell us about t
in terms of where the detectives or investigators may be looking? >> yeah, they went to his office. in oakland park, which is a suburb or a nearby city next to fort lauderdale. they were there for a couple of hours this morning. apparently they had a search warrant so they went in, and i don't know if they took much ou out. we did have an nmr, a multimedia reporter there. we save the agents have now left. as far as the house, they were there. there were about a dozen fbi agents, guns drawn, tactical gear. according to reports, the six cars pulled up slowly and quietly into the subdivision and then they stormed the door, pounded very loudly. the second floor bedroom light comes on where roger stone and his wife were sleeping, and then the door opens. within 30 minutes he was taken away in custody, most likely to the fbi field office before he was taken here to the courthouse at 8:30 this morning.
there is also a report of a townhouse in new york city that was looked at this morning by agents, but that is cleared out by now, too. >> harris: phil keating, we are going to let you know but we were come back as in his words on this as we are watching for roger stone to step up. rachel, when you go back, it'll give us an opportunity to ask more questions about who might be with him at this point, as well. we do want to get a little more on that. but you had a thought. let's open it up. >> rachel: i was good ask, and maybe somebody else has an answer. we know cnn was on the scene when the fbi arrived at his house. how did that happen? how did they know to be there? >> jessica: cnn has really sustained about in that they have been sticking out his house because of unusual activity yesterday around the grand jury. so it wasn't a tip-off from the fbi or the mueller probe. it was good old-fashioned reporting. i've seen a lot of that on twitter, with the statements coming up from rudy giuliani in the white house, saying it has nothing to do with them. "oh, look over there, there's
coronation between the state news media and the mueller probe." that's not true. >> rachel: i guess, but -- my main question -- again, maybe andy could answer. you are a lawyer. i look at this in the first thing that strikes me as they said this indictment has nothing to do with coronation. so i would think this might be good news for roger stone. in the sense that -- i mean, yeah, there's always other things, but this whole process and investigation started because there was supposedly coordination. if the indictment says there was a couple you're talking about process crimes. >> andy: the indictment says there wasn't by implication. it doesn't come out and say there wasn't. i think they should have come out and said that there wasn't. it is bad news for roger stone. nobody could read this and think that this is good. i want to be clear -- personally, i think it's a disgrace to deal with juliana julian
assange and wikileaks. so damage income is almost incalculable. it's interesting that he was a director during a lot of the time that wikileaks was doing that damage to our national security. that's an interesting angle of this, too. the important thing for the country is exactly what you are referring to. my beef with this has never been that this was not worth investigating, if they had a hard evidence. i think the obama administratio administration, the fbi, the justice department, would have had an obligation to investigate this if it was part of -- >> morgan: but we do have russians who have been indicted for the hacking. so the question in all of this, these russians that mueller and his team have indicted -- is there any can connection to the campaign from those russian so far? that's in a document in question to me. i don't know if they are leading by saying there was, perhaps they are leading into the question. but to me that's what this has
been. we know who did it, we have russians who hacked and were indicted for doing it. was there anyone on the campaign had any sort of coronation directly or indirectly? >> andy: but i don't how it would be possible. first of all, let's be clear -- the russians he has indicted have no connection with the markets. and the americans he has indicted has no connection to the cyber espionage in russia. it's two different bundles. the question has always been whether there was connection between them. but if you look at the russian indictments, they seem to preclude the possibility of partnership with anyone on the american side. not just the trump people -- anyone. this is a russian operation. if you look at this indictment, there's a lot of addressing stuff in this indictment. these people didn't even know what wikileaks had. as we understand how this works, russia hacked and we somehow get the information to assange,
which is not the pricing because of the pipeline that is excessive for long time. these guys are scratching around trying to figure out, but they don't know. >> harris: we are going to scoot and take a quick rake because we are waiting for roger stone to come up. what do you tell the world when you've got a 7-charge indictment against you and you lied to congress? that's part of the charges that are against you, potentially. what do you say? so, roger stone is going to expectedly step up to the microphone within moment. let's take a quick break. we will be right back to catch it live. ♪ when cravings hit, hit back. choose glucerna, with slow release carbs to help manage blood sugar, and start making everyday progress. glucerna. billions of problems. sore gums? bleeding gums? painful flossing? there's a therabreath for you. therabreath healthy gums oral rinse fights gingivitis and plaque and prevents gum disease for 24 hours. so you can...
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xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. call, go online or demo in an xfinity store today. >> you have a runaway special prosecutor who is accountable to no one. the house intelligence committee, democrats keep insisting that i have perjured myself. that's a lie. no matter how much pressure they put on me, no matter what they say, i will not bear false witness against donald trump. i will not do what michael cohen has done and make up lies to ease the pressure on myself. >> harris: watching roger stone there, talking on on fox news. and now we watch the doors to see if he will walk and step up to a place where he can talk with reporters. as we pan out, you will see all the reporters weeding in fort lauderdale, florida, after he was in federal court this morning facing indictment. released on a $250,000 bond.
his passport taken away. told within the united states certain areas only that he will be able to travel. roger stone. rachel campos-duffy, next to me now, let's talk a little bit about where roger stone sits with the president and where he doesn't come as far as we know, with this indictment. >> rachel: we know he's a close advisor. what's interesting to me, and what i don't understand, is that at the heart of this is not just the collusion between potentialn in the russians. but really, the 30,000 emails that wikileaks supposedly was trying to get. these 30,000 emails of hillary clinton's belonged to the american people, so people who were trying to -- i'm not justifying what wikileaks said, but it seems like they're such an unfair treatment. that there is this fbi probe into whether roger stone or whoever else was trying to get these emails or in some way coordinating to get them.
but where is the curiosity or the investigation into whatever happened with those emails? >> andy: i think there should be a curiosity in general, rachel, about the two standards of justice that were applied to two different investigations. on the hillary clinton email investigation, which unquestionably was a criminal investigation from the get-go -- and it was by nature public because of the way it was referred to the justice department -- the attorney general leans on the fbi director should not mention the word "criminal." and not to say that it's investigation, because they are essentially echoing the clinton campaign rhetoric. the new come to this investigation, and they go out of their way against their own rules. not only true now so there's an investigation, but the trump people are subject of it. then they go on to say, completely out of the room of anything you'd believe if you were inside the justice
department, that they will be doing an assessment to see if any crimes were committed as is standard in counterintelligence investigations. it's not standard. >> jessica: can ask a question i hear this all the time, that they got a different level of justice and never got off easy. and that donald trump is a victim. if we think back? lots of people in the doj -- jim comey came out in the summer and indicted/nonindicted her. and talked again about the investigation into anthony weiner's laptop after the election. have a causal effect on the outcome. what they did before donald trump was a luxury of not being publicly implicated in an investigation that was going on. >> andy: he was the subject of a criminal investigation. a counterintelligence investigation. it's russia, it's not trump.
>> jessica: and this, hillary clinton was penalized twice for something that a number of law enforcement officials had made perfectly clear was not an issue. she was not going to jail for it. "lock her up" wasn't invented reliquary. >> harris: what's your point? >> jessica: my point is that donald trump is not the victim, here. he got off easy before the election which is what this is all about. everybody wants to be president. who had to cope huge press conferences that hurt your chances of winning the presidency customer killer clinton. >> harris: i want to get you in on this. if you want to talk about who victims truly are, wouldn't it be the american people? because we know that russia must've our elections. italy has tried to. we know that they want to continue to mess with us. and can see what america is doing, get our politics either, keep us divided. truly, it was the nation that was harmed by russia. the question is, do the russians have any help?
>> morgan: that such a good point, harris. something to happen the past few days that ties into all of this is julian assange, his lawyers filed underage application. he doesn't want to be extradited to the u.s. so they filed an application with the inter-american commission on human rights asking for u.s. prosecutors to unseal any of these secret charges we have learned about in the media. do you think -- because julian assange, andy, is that the center of all this -- in these secret charges, if the prosecutors are forced to unseal them, without give us any more clue as to whether he had any direct involvement with the campaign? >> andy: i think it, clearly, if they unsealed anything on him that we would have a much better read of what it is. i don't think there is snowball's chance that the justice department or the u.s. courts will unseal these things, because they get asked by -- whether it's assange or an international tribunal. if i was the attorney general and it was my call, i would say,
"show up here in the united states, surrender yourself, you will get all the discovery and the due process you are entitled to. until that happens, tell your story walking." >> harris: we just got a sigman. representative adam adam shift released a statement. i will rebel thing, because its entire page. i'm listening now. you can hear the voices there. the indictment of roger stone released today by the special counsel provides a new and important details about the term campaign's effort to acquire dirt and hillary clinton, which wikileaks possessed in the forms of thousands of emails stolen from her campaign. by agents of the kremlin. it also details the extent to which mr. stone knew and liked your committee about it. andy mccarthy, as we rate for roger stone to walk out -- and now we are seeing him -- perhaps you will address some of us. let's watch and listen, though, as he makes his way down the
stairs. he was in federal court is money. he has a $250,000 bond paid for the first time we were here from the man himself. >> jessica: oh, wow. >> harris: this is what you were talking about, andy, in terms of -- normally people make no comment. let's watch. >> andy: i wouldn't do the nixon gesture. >> [chanting "lock him up!" [yelling]
>> he speaks for himself. you know that roger stone has always spoken for himself. he has never been shy about telling his story. he is innocent. we are going to defend his case, and we are going to win this case. but let me start out by saying that the spectacle this morning was completely unnecessary. everyone knows where roger stone is. he is not in hiding. the spectacle this morning with the s.w.a.t. team breaking into his house, searching the house, scaring his wife, scaring his
dog, completely unnecessary. a telephone call would have done the job. mr. stone would have appeared. let me let roger speak for himself. there is nothing to hide. he has nothing to hide, and he has spoken before. he will speak to you now. roger? >> thank you. [booing from crowd] as i have always said, the only thing -- it's not being talked about. the charges today relate in no way to russian collusion. [crowd chanting] collaboration, or any other illegal connection in the 2016 campaign. i am falsely accused of making false statements during my
testimony. that is incorrect. any error i made in my testimony would be both immaterial and without intent. [crowd chanting "lock him up!" >> i found it disturbing that the special counsel office released it prior to my attorney -- that i would be charged today. this morning, at the crack of dawn, 29 fbi agents arrived at my home with 17 vehicles with their lights flashing. when they could simply have contacted my attorney, and i would have been more than willing to surrender voluntaril voluntarily. they characterized my wife, my dogs. i was taken to the fbi facility. although i must say the fbi agents were extraordinarily courteous. i will plead not guilty to these
charges. i will defeat them in court. i believe this is a politically-motivated investigation. i am troubled by the political motivations of the prosecutors, and as i have said previously, there is no circumstance whatsoever under which i will bear false witness against the president. nor will i make up lies to ease the pressure on myself. i look forward to being fully and completely vindicated. [indistinct question from reporter] since i was not contacted prior to the charges today, my lawyers have not talked to the special prosecutors. i don't want to -- i made it clear i will not testify against the president. because i would have to bear false witness against him. i will be appearing for an
arraignment in d.c. next week, and i will address those questions at that time. i intend to tell the truth. i have told the truth through this entire proceeding. i will prove that in a court of law. >> are you going to ask the president for a pardon? >> i'm one of his oldest friends. i am a fervent supporter of the president. i think he is doing a great job. >> roger, did anyone tell you to contact wikileaks? >> no. i have said that before, that wasn't correct. pardon me? >> reporter: if you were convicted, should the president pardon you question my >> the only person i've advocated a pardon for is marcus garvey.
>> reporter: did you in anyway work with the russians to help president trump? >> categorically, no. absolutely not. >> we've got your back, roger! >> with all due respect -- >> my attorneys have come i have not had the opportunity to read it. i will address those questions next week in washington, d.c. >> reporter: roger! >> harris: some words that were difficult to hear because, as andy and i was talking, andy mccarthy sitting next to him, that is a crowd mixed with pro-trump supporters and anti-president trump supporters. we heard roger stone saying how close he is to the president of the united states, and that he think he's doing a fine job.
in his local community in fort lauderdale, florida, people are getting political mix in with the reporters. it was difficult to hear in the beginning, but he did say that "i find it disturbing that special counsel's office released a press release prior to informing us of the charges." i don't know the timetable of this morning, but it was predon that he knocked on his door i should say the timetable for him. so we will have to listen to him and his attorneys tell us that. because we were not inside the house. he said the fbi agents treated them extraordinarily curly slee sleep. and then the crowd quieted down we could hear some of the questions. we hurt him, andy, see more than once, "i will not bear false witness against the president." what is that supposed to be telling us about the euler investigation when he says that more than once? >> andy: i think stone's narrative is of the mueller investigation is trying to squeeze everyone, as people
frequently say. to either sing or compose about the president. the problem with the narrative is, if you look at all of the indictments that mueller has filed, whether they are against the russians or the american side, the special counsel has never uttered a sentence that suggests that president trump has done anything wrong. that's an awful lot of squeezing and singing and composing to come up with that, and to continue to accuse the special counsel of trying to fabricate a case when there is no doubt he's given us a lot of evidence and it doesn't seem to be any indication of that. >> rachel: he said he would be willing to come down, if they had just called and prayed so why does the fbi send all of these agents and scare his wifed his dogs, as he said customer quite a they do it? >> andy: first will come of fbi does come in this instance, with the justice department or the special counsel tells them to do. the special counsel has to have gone and gone and the rest
warrant and search warrant. and the fbi comes out and executes it. i think it's a great question, and a good question in connection with manafort. why not call the lawyer, as he would do in normal white-collar case and say that your client has been indicted and you need them to surrender? we won't know unless we see what's in the affidavits. we will, because as a criminal case. we will get a look at what is ie affidavits according to the search warrant. do they think he had evidence in his house? and that if they hadn't read it it he was going to destroy the evidence? b5 and a, page 20 of the indictment, roger stone apparently said, "prepare to die," and set a swear word to the radio host was charged with witness tampering. i don't know, perhaps the fact that roger stone was threatening this man's life. this is mentioned on page 20 of the indictment. if that's a reason to go in with guns blazing, so aggressively. no? >> andy: it doesn't seem to me. it seems to me, especially if you're going to let the guy out on a $250,000 bond where he
doesn't even have to post anything, that he just has to sign -- >> morgan: he's being accused of lying to the congress, to federal agents, obstructing -- these are incredibly serious charges. >> andy: yes. >> morgan: and he could, according to our fox news reporter, face a lengthy amount of jail time. this is a very sad day for america. >> rachel: can i just say, there's been a lot of lying about the 30,000 emails. i've never seen this kind of reaction. i'm sorry to harp on that, but if you like there is such an injustice about the way that i don't think it's good for our country to think that talk depending on who you support there's going to be another standard for how you are treated. >> morgan: or, just don't lie. >> rachel: i agree. >> harris: i want to ask you, as these charges have come down today, andy, there's been a lot of talk about process crimes. as morgan has pointed out, some of these are not within the realm of the minor process current. witness tampering series.
that's something that paul manafort had come into his case, as well. that has to do with the charges. of course, he is a convicted liar. so i don't know what we can believe out of michael cohen's mouth, but that is what he was alleging against the president and the president's attorney from over the weekend. threats against him. no evidence of that. that's what his attorney is saying. >> andy: may i say, though -- a lot of times, nonlawyers use the term "process crime" to convey the idea that it's an unserious crime. as somebody who worked in the process for 20 years, it's quite serious. all these crimes, under the auspices of obstruction of justice, whether it's witness tampering or lying to investigators. lying to congress. they are all obstruction crimes. you are obstructing the investigative process. it's still very serious stuff. even if they had just called and told him to surrender rather than reading the place, he would still be looking at the same very serious prison time.
look, the two most important expressions i heard him say or statements i heard him make was that if he said anything that was wrong it was "immaterial and without intent." that's almost a concession that, "look, the government will be able to prove things that i said weren't true." and it sound too if it's important and whether he meant it. it's not a good place to be at the beginning. >> harris: yesterday, when his attorney -- or, i should say, when the attorneys were saying, "why would someone lie? would be bad memory? would be pressure of the campaign?" this is a thread that has kind of been there in terms of why we are not getting the truth in some cases. i'm curious about that. >> andy: i think they often say in washington that the cover up is -- >> harris: they say that
everywhere. >> andy: but there is a particular reason for it in washington. that is, a lot of times what you need to cover up in politics is crummy, icky political stuff that you've done that would be embarrassing and that the voter might take out on you if they found out about it. but it's not necessarily a violation of the criminal law. like taking information from bad people. there's a lot of awful things to say and feel about that. it's not a violation of the criminal law. i think a lot of times what these guys do is they say things that aren't true, and they tried to cover up the facts that they were out practicing politics inn a particularly scummy way. >> harris: i want to bring in chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge. catherine, to bring their reporting into all this -- are you with me question actor you are we watch this play out in the same time. we are digging deeper into the indictment. what are you finding? >> harris, i want to take a minute to lay out some of the data points on the timeline.
what we saw go down this morning. based on our reporting, we have the arrest of roger stone at approximately 6:00 a.m. he said in this news conference at the special counsel issued a press release about the indictment before. if i could hear him correctly, he notified stone's attorney. i received the press release from the special counsel's office as spokesman peter carr, approximately 617 this morning, and that press release could deny him the indictment a lengthy summary of the 24-page indictment against stone. that would have taken a certain amount of preplanning or premeditation, if you well. stone went on to say -- and we will have to check to see if it's accurate come with the fbi -- is that there were 29 agents or personnel on site and7 vehicles. i think andy would agree with me, this is a significant show of force by the fbi that is typically used in cases where the individual is a flight risk. or if there is a threat of violence, or if they fear the destruction of evidence.
stone has said that if they called his attorney he would have appeared voluntarily. the other thing that jumped out at me from the news conference is that he did take a question specifically on a central allegation. i think this is the allegation which would have the most legal exposure for the administration, that a term campaign official directed stone to contact wikileaks and get additional information about the hacked emails. and stone said, "no one from the campaign told me. that is incorrect." he was also asked categorically if he had ever worked recorded with the russians. he said that was also false, and he also made clear what we have heard from his interviews here at fox news earlier this week. that he has no intent and has made clear to the special counsel that he will not testify against the president. just a little bit more clarity on the timeline this morning, when he knew, when his lawyer
knew, when reporters were notified with that press release. also, a direct response of what i think is the most significant allegation in the indictment, that there was direction from the term campaign to stone to go to wikileaks and gather information about the hacked emails, harris. >> harris: you know, at one point -- and there was no way to know who was shouting at him, so i will assume this was one of the journalists in the audience were in that crowd -- they asked, "what about contacting wikileaks on behalf of the campaign?" that's what i think i heard. i did hear the answer to what i thought i heard was the question. he said "i reverse that before. that is incorrect." can we go back a little bit over that previous ground? so we know exactly what he was saying? and then he admitted that he either wasn't honest about that, was bloviating about that. >> i don't like to speculate, period. especially in something like that. but when he's talking about reversing it sounds like he come at some point, corrected a
statement that he made. in this case, the special counsel, the grand jury, or to the house intelligence committee. i would also add that this does appear to be the same prosecutorial model that was applied against michael cohen. they went to the statements, to congressional investigators, and use that as a bed or a foundation to build the false statements case. i agree with you, this is a good word to key in on, but we simply don't know what that is in reference to. >> harris: it was hard to hear. i am joined by andy mccarthy here, and i don't know if you cut what catherine was saying -- the same prosecutorial model. i would love for you to to talk to each other about that. [laughter] >> he's the expert! [laughs] >> andy: catherine is right, we would ordinarily do in a case, especially if you were trying to prove false statements or intent would be so important, as you would want to get your hy
they had given on things that were relevant. >> yep, okay, okay. >> harris: catherine? >> part of me. they were talking to me in the air. just repeat that please? >> andy: if you remember, and the clinton investigation, one of the things that was bothersome to people is that a few people were asked, "did you look at what she said in her benghazi testimony you compared x, y, and z thing, or did you look at what she said her public statements?" at the fbi's response was, "well, no. we were only concerned with what she said to us." to me that was a very peculiar investigative approach, because usually you want everything. if you have to prove intent, you want everything they ever said about what is being investigate investigated. >> morgan: that's what rachel was bringing up earlier, which reminded me that the new chairman of the senate judiciary committee, lindsey graham, has said that he's going to continue or open up -- it looks like continue these investigations into the fbi.
so two investigations. one is the fbi handling of hillary clinton's private email server, and everything you just laid out. also, he's going to be looking into something of particular interest to me for my background in the intelligence community, which is the fisa warrant application process that targeted term campaign, carter page. thank you for bringing that up, rachel. it triggered my mind. we don't know how long it will take, but we will get something from the senate judiciary committee and an investigation into this. it's an ongoing investigation that senator lindsey graham has been publicly done in the past few days and that he will continue. >> andy: along those lines, was interesting to me -- not only about these charges that we are just seeing, but the charges against the russian lawyer by the southern district of new york a couple weeks ago. a lot of this stuff is based on a theory that if you make a misrepresentation to a tribunal or you say something to a tribunal that turns out over time not to be true, you have an obligation to go in and correct the record.
i want to -- i certainly hope that if that's justice department theory, which i applaud. that's exactly what your obligation is. that they are going to apply that across the board, including investigating whether once they found out things that were represented to the fisa court were not accurate, did they go back in and correct the record? or did they repeatedly come a time after time after time, when they went to get a renewed fisa -- >> harris: look at the same unedited document. >> andy: right. the same information. >> harris: that's fascinating. i want to think catherine herridge, we will bring her back. she is collecting more. we will be ready to report if we need her to. we will take a quick break right now, because we have heard from roger stone. there is so much to break down. there are a lot of questions now. i'm reading some of the reactions and whatnot coming in. let's take a quick step away, we will be right back. stay tuned. ♪ stop fearing your alarm clock... with zzzquil pure zzzs.
man in the dark blue polo shirt there, with his hands in the air. that's roger stone. he is facing a multi-charge indictment today. federal court he was in early this morning. he is walking freely there because he has agreed to a security bond of $250,000. he has turned over his passport. closely aligned with the president of the united states, but as a legal expert in the center seat on "outnumbered" today is quick to point out, there was nothing in the indictment. you are still going for it making notes, post it notes and every thing. nothing in the indictment that has anything to do with the term campaign and any sort of collusion or conspiracy with the russians tampering in our election. >> andy: i would look at this in three sections. there is the russia section, the wikileaks section, and then there is the term campaign. what we see in this indictment is people who are in the orbit of the term campaign trying to figure out what wikileaks has. but there is nothing in the way
of people in the term campaign having any conspiratorial connection or any connection at all with russia, which is the big leap. >> morgan: that's an interesting way to put it. it actually kind of explains in a very interesting way. again, i'm not a lawyer, but i look at this and i think year and a half into the infestation of this is all you have? prieto think it's a fair assessment of what has gone on. there's a lot that we talk about on the couch. the mueller probe has indicted a lot of people. they have cooperating witnesses who were integral members of his campaign. the indictment, although andy has told us it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to turn into a criminal charge, it specifies what someone high up in the campaign directed steve bannon to reach out to roger stone. steve bannon -- it's widely agreed upon that it's in. to get in touch with wikileaks. there is something that is going to foreign entity, one that is
lined with a foreign government before, asking for dirt on your political opponents. as andy said, it's smelly icky political stuff and you don't go to jail for that. that's one thing. but it brings more attention to don jr. and that meeting at trump tower. which we know there have been lies about. >> harris: also, to my knowledge, not mentioned in here is that -- as jessica is putting it -- the house select committee on intelligence is the venue that roger stone is alleged to have lied to. we have seen lying to congress, areas where people have been caught in investigations of mueller. talk to me about that part of the indictment. i believe it's on page 3. >> andy: harris, looking at this, i think we are going to have a harder time proving the false statements than they are proving the witness tampering. it looks based on the text that you have here, the witness tampering looks very strong. but i am very surprised that some of the stuff they left out, here. for example, , on page 4, it los
like they tried to create the impression that stone has some kind of inside information that they are about to -- that wikileaks has something on the clinton foundation that they are going to go public with. they leave us out, all the important things. event by event by event. looks like it's complete and meticulous, but they don't put on here that on the very day they are talking about stone is blind copied on an email transmission between a guy named charles who has done a lot of research on the clinton foundation, and james rosen, used to be a correspondent here at fox. where rosen tells or tell that he hears they are about to come out something on the look of determination. so stone get that information, and the next thing he is talking to jerome corsi and saying, "we have to find out what they have on the critic and foundation." if you read this about me, you wonder how he knows it and
whether he is an insight you're going on at wikileaks. but turns out he was blind copied on an email that they don't mention in here. you have to look at this all very carefully. >> harris: and you say that is left out, , and it's something that caught your eye. >> andy: it caught my eye because it would inform why he knew that there was going to be something about the clinton foundation. >> rachel: now that he knew from wikileaks, but that he learned it from an email that he was blind cc'd on. >> harris: and that's what you bring andy mccarthy in on a day like this, because you are reading every line and putting those pieces together. thank you so very much. we are going to take a quick break. i will come up on the other side with "outnumbered overtime," as breaking news continues. we will bring it up to speed on what's going on otherwise. oh yeah. how do you kind of buy a new car? it's used. it's for mikey. you know he's gonna have girls in that car. yeah. he's gonna have two of them.
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