tv Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News May 19, 2019 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
kristinchris: i'm chris wallac. we're live in new hampshire where 2020 candidates are making their case and responding to the gop's big moves on abortion and immigration. >> our proposal is pro-american, pro-immigrant and pro-worker. chris: the president rolls out a merit based immigration plan that goes beyond building a wall. and alabama passes the country's toughest abortion law. >> when you make abortion illegal, it doesn't stop abortion. it just stops safe abortions. chris: we'll discuss how the recent moves will affect democratic plans to take back the white house in our 2020 sit-down with presidential candidate senator amy klobuchar.
it's a fox news sunday exclusive. then, the president's trade war with china causes a rift among republicans. we'll discuss the impact the president's tariffs are having on the economy and u.s. farmers with gop senator pat toomey. plus, joe biden now up double digits against bernie sanders in the latest fox news poll. we'll ask our sunday panel how solid biden's lead really is. and our power player of the week, one of america's greatest historians on his life's work. >> i feel unless i see it, really understand it, i can't make the readers see. chris: all right now on fox news sunday. and hello again today from the gym at stevens high school in claremont, new hampshire, home of the cardinals and tonight the site of our town hall with mayor
pete buttigieg on fox news channel. we came to new hampshire the site of the first primary in eight months to get a sense for where the democratic race for president stands at this point. the field is 24 candidates deep with mayor pete rising in the polls. in tonight's town hall, voters will get a chance to learn more about the mayor and we'll see how he responds to moves republicans made this week on abortion and immigration. but first, we want to talk about all that with a candidate who has already had her fox town hall, senator amy klobuchar, joining us from the campaign trail across the state in new hampshire for a sunday sit-down. senator, welcome back. >> thanks, chris, it's great to be on. chris: eight states now, eight states have passed tight new restrictions on abortion that pro-life groups have been pushing and as i say,
dramatically restrict rights of abortion. alabama would ban abortions at any point, except on matters of the extreme health of the woman. my question is, if the supreme court overturns roe v wade, when you become president, what will you do? >> if the supreme court overturns roe v wade, i would make sure that we are codifying roe v wade into law. i think it's really important for the fox news viewers to understand exactly what's happening here. these aren't nuances anymore. this is a case where the laws that they have passed in these states would actually make it so that no one could get an abortion and at the same time while we've reduced the number of abortions, because of making contraception more available all over the country through planned parenthood and other bays, they've also moved to defund planned parenthood.
this is dangerous. it is a place that we have never seen. i think people have always warned this could happen. it's actually happened. and when i talk to people, whether they are pro-choice or they are personally opposed to abortion, a lot of them don't think we should go this direction. 73% of americans don't want to overturn roe v wade. you have a situation here where they would actually put doctors in prison, 99 years, that's what the alabama law says. this is a law that they passed that would mean that if someone was raped, if a college student was raped, she wouldn't have a choice in that pregnancy from a rape. i don't think the majority of americans are where the republicans are on this issue right now. chris: but senator, pro-life advocates are pushing back. there's a group called restoration pac. they're running an ad on facebook that we're showing right now, showing what it calls the party of death.
six democratic senators running for president including you who have opposed restrictions in the later stages of pregnancy. you talk about the extreme as you call it on one side. let me make the case and you can answer it on the other side. because folks say that one of the concerns is that a number of democratic senators are not willing to see restrictions on late term abortions, abortions after 24 weeks as we enter the third trimester. that's only 1% of all abortions in the country but even 1% is 6,000 abortions after 24 weeks when a fetus might well be viable. are you okay with that? >> i'm okay with the law, chris, and what the law says is that in that third trimester it is allowed to protect the health and life of the mother. but that's not what the president said, chris. the president misled the american public. what he said at a rally was
basically a doctor would be holding a baby and kill that baby. that's illegal under the law. that is already a crime. i know this. i'm a former prosecutor. that is a crime. chris: back to you. are you okay -- let me ask you. i understand the argument against that. what i'm asking you is, are you okay with abortions after 24 weeks? >> to protect the life and the health of the mother. that is exactly what the supreme court ruling said. and i am okay with that. but i just think it's really important, chris, for your fox viewers to know, because there's so much misinformation out there. that what the laws do is extreme. there are a number of republicans who said they are opposed though them. they are extreme. then you have the president misleading the public and telling them that this is about basically killing a baby after a baby is born. that is not what this is about. that is a crime.
so i think what people have to understand here is that we are at a point where a number -- it is not just alabama. this happened in ohio, this has happened in missouri, this happened in georgia, there's a law that's being passed in michigan that the democratic governor is going to veto. this is happening across the country. people need to know what's really going on here. this is a violation of civil rights. chris: attorney general barr sat down with bill hemer earlier this week and he said he could understand why president trump called the russia probe a witch hunt, a hoax, because he said president trump felt he was falsely accused and the mueller report seemed to back him up. he said he intends to drill down on how the fbi and continu the l agencies handled the probe. here is the attorney general. >> i thought when i came in from the outside that all the questions that i had and many other people had that would be
readily answered, once i got in. i haven't found that to be the case. chris: aren't there legitimate reasons to investigate the investigators, senator? >> i don't think there are. and this really bothers me, because we have in front of us two things. one of them is to get to the truth of what happened here and we're simply trying to get director mueller in front of us so way can find out. i remind you, this investigation was started under a republican attorney general with a former republican appointed u.s. attorney, rod rosenstein, with a former republican appointed fbi director. that's where we were. they started the investigation because of legitimate news that there were people from the trump campaign talking to others about russia and exchanging information. we know that. the second thing that is most disturbing to me, we having right in front of us. the current fbi director and the current director of intelligence
have told us that russia is getting bolder, that what we've seen is a dress rehearsal. yet, any attempt i've made with the security elections act which is a bill i have with conservative senator langford that would say let's get backup paper ballots, let's get audits in place so we don't allow a foreign power to invade our election again. they didn't do it with tanks or missiles. they did it with a cyber attack. theyed stopped that in the their tracks. the white house made calls to stop the bill despite strong republican support for the bill. that's what's right in front of us. barr is talking about whatever he wants to talk about politically. what he should be doing is protecting the integrity of our elections and our democracy. chris: as you know, new hampshire, where we both are, although in different parts of the state, is among the five states with the highest rate of opioid related deaths in the country, twice the national
average you. you released a plan to deal with mental health and substance abuse. they all sound roughly the same. prevention, treatment, recovery. i guess i want to ask you, just focus on one thing, one thing that you think makes your plan dramatically different from all the other democratic plans to deal with this problem. >> this is an issue that no presidential candidate has taken on really in history and i would emphasize here the mental health aspect of it. one in five americans have problems with mental health. for me, the mental health addiction issue comes from my heart. mid dad struggled with alcoholism his whole life had two dwis and a third before i got married. he was facing either jail or treatment. he chose treatment. in his words, he was pursued by grace. and i think every american has that right to be pursued by
grace. and what i've done here is lay out a thorough plan so we have beds for people who have extreme problems with mental illness, so that we have counselors for people to talk to. we had 30% increase in suicides including farmers, including veterans, including students in this country, in 15 years, and chris, the other thing that's unique about my plan is i show how i'm going to pay for it. i figure if you're running for president, you better be addressing real problems with real solutions and show how you pay for it. i would take on the pharma companies that got people indicted to begin with. you can start with a fee on the opioids that are sold and there will be a master settlement with the companies that profited off of people's addictions, that got people hooked. and that's where you get the $100 billion. chris: i want to get to two more subjects, one is immigration.
the president proposed a plan that emphasizes merit, skills, education over family ties here's how the president described it. >> we discriminate against genius. wees discriminate against brilliance. we won't anymore. once we get this passed. chris: now, canada and australia have merit based systems. why shouldn't the u.s.? >> you can do both. you can have some people coming in that get degrees here on merit. i think you also have to have people that maybe don't have those degrees and i'm talking here about we need workers right now in our fields, in our factories. we have openings in our nursing homes. we don't have enough labor in some of our states for those kinds of jobs as well. and so what bothers me about the president's plan is the fact that he doesn't deal with the dreamers. he doesn't deal with the millions of people who came here
with no fault of their own. he doesn't deal with the 10 million people that are here now, many of whom would like to see if they follow the law, learn english, they want to be on a path to citizenship. a lot of our republican colleagues, like mike rounds, they joined with democrats to take this on. i feel like the president carved out one niche, instead of dealing with the overall conference i've immigration issue. that's what i would do as president. chris: senator, i want to talk a little 2020 politics in the time we have left. i want to put up the real clear politics average of the latest polls. in iowa, you're in eighth place with 3% support. and here in new hampshire you're also in eighth place with 1.5% support. i understand that it's very early. we're still months away from people voting here in new hampshire. i guess the question i have though is why do you think you
have not gained as much traction so far in the campaign as other candidates, for instance, mayor pete is going to be here for the town hall this evening. >> oh, chris, i think being in the top 10 in the 25 person race when you're from the middle of the country, in a state that's not as big as some of my colleagues, i think that's pretty good. i wouldn't count me out. everything i've done in my life, whether taking on 48 hour hospital stays for new moms, i got it done. i was the first woman to run for d.a. in my state in the biggest counties, i got it done. i run for u.s. t senate, running against a congressman and win big-time. i am someone that takes on challenges, and finds a way to get there. no one thought i could raise money when i was running for senate. i finally just called everyone i knew in my life and i raised an all-time senate record, $17,000
from ex-boyfriends. and as my husband pointed out, it's not an expanding base. i will find a way to win. no one thought a peanut farmer from georgia would win. jimmy carter pointed out he had less support at this point than i do. no one thought a guy named barack obama could become president. this is --you know politics, it's a long road. chris: it's forever. listen, it is a snapshot of where we are at this point. i'm not counting you out. that's why you're here for the sunday sit-down. thank you for taking my. always good to talk with you. up next, we'll bring in our sunday group to discuss the growing 2020 field and a frontrunner who keeps building his lead. plus, what would you like to ask the panel about alabama's strict new abortion law, just go to facebook or twitter at fox news sunday and we may use your question on the air. as fox news sunday reports live from stevens high school in claremont, new hampshire. ♪
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star and mo elleithee, from the institute of politics and public ser visms thank you all for coming up here to claremont to keep me company and answer my questions. joe biden officially opened his campaign today, although it seemed that he's been campaigning for a few weeks. he really has done remarkably well. let's put up the latest average of national polls, biden up up to 39%, sanders down to 16%, and everyone else in the single digits. mo, why do you think that biden has had such a good rollout so far and how solid do you think his lead is? >> i think a couple things. one, i think democrats care about electability. i think joe biden sort of projects and electability argument well. number two, i think democrats like a lot of people in the country are looking for an authentic champion. and joe biden, when he's out
there on the stump, projects authenticity and he can be a champion for folks. i think ultimately the reason he's doing well and others are sliding, probably at this point has more to do with his name i.d. than anything else. but others are going to have to start moving in the right direction if they're going to catch up to him. he's looking really, really strong. chris: ben, how strong do you think -- obviously he's looking strong right now. but as senator klobuchar pointed out, there's an eternity, we haven't had the first debates yet. any doubts about buy accident's staying power. >> the only question that emerges is how much his lengthy history of previous decisions and positions will be a problem for him in a field with a lot of new faces to it. democrats tend to like the new faces, inspirational figures who come along, you're going to have mayor pete tonight to be one of those figures. i think the problem for biden is going to be navigating all of
the previous decisions and positions that he's had. i think he also has a lot of built-in advantages, not just name i.d. but i think his advantage among african american voters, particularly in the south, is going to be a real strong point for him and everybody else has to figure out what kind of lane exists to take on biden and the best way to critique him. chris: perhaps the biggest political development so far this year and certainly this week has been that now eight states passed very restrictive laws on abortion, alabama leading the way with the most restrictive law which would only alaw an exception not for rape or incest but only to prevent a serious health risk to the woman and here was the back and forth among alabama lawmakers. >> i apologize to the women of alabama for this archaic law we passed. >> alabama law it's a person. chris: we asked you for questions for the panel and on
alabama's new law, we got this on twitter from ray kitchens. why would they make no exceptions to rape and incest? katie, how do you answer ray and how do you respond to the whole fact that this has become such a hot issue. >> of course, abortion is always a hot issue. to answer the question, if you are intellectually and morally consistent with your belief that life starts at consistent conceu have a hard time justifying an exception for people who were conceived in rape. there are a number of people who are adding to the conversation and saying why are we valued less because of the way that we were conceived. when it comes to the abortion issue, this is something that a number of states have passed. the accusation has been that republican men are trying to control women's bodies when the alabama governor is a woman. there's a democrat in louisiana, the governor there, who is willing to sign a similar piece of legislation.
and this is something that has been going on as a debate topic for 30 years and for a good reason. the pro-life movement has a choice to make here, take it to the courts and hope it gets to the supreme court and hopes that roe v wade gets overturned. there's a way they've done this over the past couple of decades in the sense of changing people's public opinion based on the new science and technology that we have, rather than going through the court system. so it's a two-fold issue. it's always a hot topic. amy klobuchar couldn't answer your question about how she feels about late term abortion, not just for the health of the mother but elective late term abortion. that's a question democrats will have to answer on the campaign trail. chris: president trump has been surprisingly quiet about this all week until yesterday afternoon when he put out this tweet. i am strongly pro-life with the three exceptions, ra rape, ince, protecting the life of the mother, the same position taken by ronald reagan. some of the new laws, especially
alabama's, don't make exception for rape and incest. julie, i hate to reduce this to politics. it is a hot political issue. how does the white house political operation feel about this drive and particularly if women come to feel that roe, the 1973 ruling, that allowed a woman's right to an abortion, stated it, might conceivably under threat? >> i heard two different arguments from republicans this week. one for people who think politically, again, we will have to talk about this in a political space, who think politically it will be good for republicans, it energizes a portion of the republican base that has been supportive of trump for one reason, which thy believe he will put judges on the court that will try to overturn roe. the second piece of it, i heard this from a lot of republicans, they're worried about what this done to their support with women. if you look at the 2018 mid-terms, republicans lost
significantly with women in suburban areas. it's one of the reasons that republicans lost the house and there's a concern that if the party is seen as rallying around these state laws, cheering them on through the court system, that that will have a detrimental impact on trump and other republicans in 2020. chris: i thought that as the issue stood right now, with there was a bright to an abortion, the -- right to an abortion, it energized the pro-life side. if there's a chance they might go up the court system and get to the supreme court and people begin to perceive that roe is under threat, does that change? >> with the exception of john edwards of louisiana, we've had a great cultural sort on this issue. the parties are divided on them. the number of pro-life democrats in any office can be counted on one hand. to a certain extent, driving the base on both sides on this issue serves both parties' interest. the fact is the president, not
just the court appointments but rulings on title 10 and other aspects of issues that pro-life americans care about have been consistently putting him in rewarding them for backing him in 2016. i think this is meant to serve as a reminder of where things are and frankly going back to someone like mayor pete, he came out for repeal of the hyde amendment, saying he wants to take taxpayer funding and spend it on abortions. in that situation, i'm not sure this actually moves that needle that much. i think that people basically made up their minds. chris: panel, thank you. up next, manufacturers and farmers are feeling the brunt of the president's trade war with china. we'll talk with republican senator pat toomey about the rift it's causing inside the gop. as fox news sunday reports ahead of tonight's town hall with mayor pete buttigieg who recently bragged about his appearance on this show, appearing on late night tv. >> is it true you hooked up with fox news at the start of your campaign? because some might say that
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chris: the president's ongoing trade war with china is creating a growing divide in the gop. many of the businesses feeling the effects are in states mr. trump won in the 2016 and are represented by republican senators. one of those is senator pat toomey, a leading member of the senate finance committee, who joins us now from bethlehem, pennsylvania. senator, our trade war with china escalated in the week. president trump put the chinese telecom company huawei on a business blacklist, and china cut its orders for u.s. pork, and chinese state media became
more nationalistic. here's what the president had to say about all this. >> we're having a little squabble with china because we've been treated very unfairly for many, many decades, for actually a long time. and it should have been handled a long time ago, and it wasn't, and we'll handle it now. chris: senator, how worried are you about the escalating trade war with china? >> chris, thanks for having me. listen, i put china in a distinct the category separate from the rest of the entire world. and i do that because of the facts in the case, right? china's the world's second biggest economy, it's a revisionist power. it's now, for the first time, attempting to be the able to project force, it's intimidating neighbors, it's disrupting american institutions, and it's engaged in some egregious economic behavior; the theft of intellectual property in various ways. so i actually think the president is right to challenge china.
this agreement, if we reach one, won't solve all of those problems, and the tariffs are absolutely painful and dislocating. but if in the end we end up with an agreement that gives us a meaningful reform of china's most egregious behavior, we might look back and say this was worth the price that we're paying. i look at 232 tariffs can and tariffs on canadians and europeans and mexicans -- chris: but those are national security tariffs, right? >> that's correct. and i put those in a very different category. but i think the president is right to challenge china and to think about this in the broader context such as what vice president pence laid out in a famous speech where he made the case of how aggressive china has been. chris: now, farmers are among the folks that have been the hardest hit so far by the u.s. tariffs and the response from the chinese. but the white house says, well, they're got a plan, and they're talking about up to $20 billion
as a bailout to farmers. here's the president's message that he sent to farmers this week. >> they'll be plant, they'll be able to sell forless less, and they'll make the same amount of money until such time as it's all straightened out. chris: but you call this plan, quote -- your words -- very bad policy. why? >> yeah. i think it's bad policy to, you know, start just sending checks to farmers or any segment of the economy. what i think we ought to be doing is working with allies, working with friendly countries, finding more markets, opening up more markets, taking down trade barriers and creating an opportunity for our farmers to sell their products around the world rather than sending them a check from the taxpayers. chris: generally speaking, it's fair to say you're a free trader. you were a former president of the club for growth. what are your thoughts about the president's trade policy and his willingness in an effort to try to -- and he says that, to try
to bring down tariffs, to raise tariffs at least in the short term which sometimes goes on for a while? >> yeah. so the way i look at tariffs, they are a tax on the american people. they can only be justified if they are a means to an end. in the case of china, i think we might be pursuing the right end. i think in the case of canada and mexico, for instance, on steel and aluminum, we were not pursuing the right end. i think the changes that the administration has made to nafta actually diminish nafta as a driver of economic growth and prosperity. i think it would be a huge mistake to impose taxes on the auto imports, for instance, from europe and asia. i think that would be a huge cost to consumers without a good objective. so, you know, i'm going to continue to push back on the use of national security as a justification for imposing taxes on americans when they choose to purchase products from our neighbors and allies and friends. chris: let me turn subjects with
you. president trump proposed a dramatic new immigration reform plan in the week for legal immigration. i want to talk about that. currently, 12% of green cards are based on skills, and 66% are based on family. the president would flip that to 57% based on skills and and 33% based on family. as the grandson of irish immigrants, how do you feel about this, the president's proposal for this new system? >> so it's mixed. i think this is -- so i'm very much open to expanding legal immigration. i think people who come to this country wanting to build a better life for themselves is and their families, they contribute to america. they help to build this country just as my relatively uneducated and pennyless grandparents did when they came here. so i'm open to more legal immigration. i think the president's right in his insight that, you know, people who come with a lot of
human capital, intellectual capital, education, these people contribute to our country enormously. it's a no-brainer to allow people who come here, the best and brightest from around the world come to our colleges, get a great education, and then we ship them out so they can compete against us rather than welcoming us. so i pulley embrace the idea -- fully embrace the idea that these kids with greater skills and education and knowledge should be welcomed. but i think people with lower skills can contribute as well, so i'd be open to expanding that category as well. chris: i want to ask you another question on immigration. the department of homeland security says the overcrowding -- and there's no question there is -- on the border in texas between mexico and texas has gotten so severe that it has started flying illegal immigrants to san diego to hold them there, to process there and conceivably to release them there. they were also going to do that in florida, but there was such a backlash -- including from the republican governor of
florida -- that they stopped that. but apparently, dhs is considering continuing this. how do you feel about the idea of shipping people in this country ill -- illegally all over the country? >> well, chris, it's a symptom of a complete, full-blown crisis that we have at our border. they are swamped. they are overwhelmed. the numbers have been staggering. we've got a humanitarian crisis and a security crisis. so we need to respond to that. we need better border security, we need to -- we are building and we need to build physical barriers, walls. we need more personnel, we need more surveillance, and we also need the ability to adjudicate these huge numbers of people who come here, they ask for asylum, they have very, very little case to be made for granting an asylum. but we're encumberedded by having inadequate resources to adjudicate those claim ares, those requests -- claims, those requests. that's a big part of it. we've got to change our laws that are driving people.
america's a magnet -- chris: but let me, if i may, i'm running out of -- senator, just to cut to chase here, because we're running out of time, how would you feel if dhs shipped several hundred migrants to pennsylvania? >> yeah. we actually do house some migrant families, and that's, you know, a temporary arrangement that is made necessary by the crisis on the border. i'd like to fix the crisis so that that's not necessary. chris: okay. let's -- one last subject i want to talk to you about, and that's iran. over the last week the president has taken a number of measures, he's ordered a carrier strike group to persian gulf. we're sending long-range bombers there. the pentagon at least considered a proposal to send 120,000 u.s. troops to middle east. really two questions. one, do you understand what's going on with u.s. policy in iran, and how do you feel about -- as you do, if you do
understand it -- what the president's policy is? >> i think i do, chris. i took the time to go down to secured briefing room and read the intelligence reports last week. i'm looking forward to the full briefing to all senators on tuesday on the intelligence we have. i can't comment on that, but let me simply say this: if you read a report about a potentially imminent threat to american personnel and american assets originating from the iranian regime, i think you should take that report very seriously. let's remember who we're talking about. this is the regime that systematically designed, manufactured and distributed the ieds that were designed to penetrate and kill american soldiers in iraq in large numbers, and they did. i think the president is right to try to deter the iranians from a foolish and dangerous attack on american personnel and our assets, and i think that's the strategy right now. demonstrate with a show of powerful force that this would be a really bad idea for the
iranians to pursue and, hopefully, deter a really tragic and disastrous decision by the iranians. chris: senator toomey, thank you. thanks for sharing your weekend with us. please come back, sir. >> thanks for having me. chris: up next, democrats call president trump's new immigration plan dead on arrival, but is the real purpose as a campaign weapon for 2020? our fox news sunday panel returns live here in new hampshire. that's next. ♪ ♪ i can't believe it. that there's a lobster in our hot tub? lobster: oh, you guys. there's a jet! oh...i needed this. no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on our car insurance with geico. we could have been doing this a long time ago. so, you guys staying at the hotel? yeah, we just got married. oh ho-ho! congratulations! thank you. yeah, i'm afraid of commitment... and being boiled alive. oh, shoot. believe it. geico could save you 15% or more on car insurance.
the most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. life. to the fullest. >> we'll see what happens with ira. if they do anything, it will be a bad mistake. iran is totally confused, that might be a good thing. chris: president trump talking tough about iran on monday, but by the enof the week, blaming
the media for the chatter about war. and we're back now with the panel. well, ben, help us sort this out. in the beginning of the week, there were some dramatic moves the president took, sending a carrier strike force, long-range bombers, talk about 120,000 troops. by the end of the week, the president put out the word that he had told his acting defense secretary i don't want to get into a war. what's going on? >> yeah. i think that the president is totally fine with rattling the sword here and there when it comes to confrontations with other nations around the world, but he has very much been opposed to any kind of significant involvement in the middle east. he internally has sent that message in a lot of different ways. i think one of the things that was happening this time was, as with so many things that go around the administration, people were having the argument in public m they were sort of pushing the story to various different outlets, and i think the he saw that playing out and wanted to send a message to his supporters -- many of whom are very much opposed to getting involved in what he calls
another stupid war -- and say, look, i'm still in charge, and we're not going in there. as much as this stuff has played out in the public square, i'm still in charge, and i don't want this to happen. chris: julie, i want to pick up on precisely that. as our white house watcher here, how much of a split is there within the white house or within the administration, especially, for instance, between the president and his national security adviser, john bolton, who's very hawkish on iran? and it does seem that for all of the talk that the president and the saber rattling, that he really does not want to get involved in another foreign conflict. >> he doesn't want to get involved in another conflict. there is a split, certainly, on foreign policy broadly, but specifically like iran. john bolton is incredibly hawkish. he sees iran as the central negative force in global affairs right now, and he believes that the united states has to play a role in trying to counter iran, and he is more comfortable than others in the administration if about looking at military options on that front.
this dates back to his early days in the administration when he was pushing the pentagon to put forward proposals for large-scale military action there. but the president looks at this, i think, from a political lens mostly. he campaigned -- as much as he campaigned on immigration, he also campaigned as being a president who would pull the united states out of foreign entanglements in the middle east and not go back in. when he sees some of his own advisers suggesting that action, he really recoils at it. he made a point by the end of the week to make clear that even if john bolton and mike pompei owe are talking hawkishly, that's not coming from the him. chris: do you think either of them are in trouble? >> i don't think either of them are in trouble the. trump is interesting in these situations, because he actually doesn't mind splits within his administration. he doesn't love -- chris: it's a certain kind of good cop/bad cop quality to it. >> absolutely. what he doesn't like is the idea that his advisers are pushing
him beyond where he wants to be. chris: all right. let's turn to immigration because the president did propose a new merit-based immigration plan which got real pushback from democrats and even some from republicans, especially because it didn't lower pat toomey's a little bit of an exception, a lot of republicans would like to see fewer legal immigrants come into the country as well. here's the president indicating that he doesn't expect this to become law anytime soon. take a look. >> if for some reason, possibly political, we can't get the democrats to approve this merit-based, high-security plan, then we will get it approved immediately after the election when we take back the house, keep the senate and, of course, hold the presidency. [applause] chris: katie, if this is really more about 2020 than any realistic chance of getting this passed before next year in this congress with a democratic
house, why do you think the president felt the need to put it out? do you think he feels a need to shore up his position on immigration? >> i think that the white house has been looking for different ways to deal with the current illegal immigration crisis on the border, the problem with the asylum laws and also looking at the entire system and saying we haven't had immigration reform on the legal side since the 1960s. the focus is always on trying to find a solution for people who came to country illegally rather than trying to find a solution for people who want to come to country in a legal fashion to be part of the american society in terms of becoming citizens and learning the language and advocating for the country in terms of economics. but when it comes to politics of this, it's on president trump's side because you have people asking why isn't daca in this deal. they can then say we've offered daca in a number of deals with democrats, they've said no to that, and the fact is that legal immigration in this country needs to be reformed regardless
of whether we pass dak a -- daca right now. we want to make it easier for people to come to country, they're still focused on getting immediate family members into the country. chris: there was no outreach to democrats at a all about this bill, and they have already declared it dead on arrival in this congress. but is it good politics for the president to be able to say it's not just that i'm against illegal immigration, here are some things that i'm for? >> i think it's necessary politics for him to change the conversation as it's being had around immigration. you know, we did a poll at our institute not long ago that showed while the american people support his approach to the economy, when it comes to immigration, they actually support congressional democrats over his approach. this is supposed to be his signature issue, and it isn't playing out electorally, politically for him the way he'd like beyond his base. and so i think what you're seeing here is the president and his team trying to change the
conversation a bit. he's never going to walk away from the wall, he's never going to walk away from his signature, you know, approach to border security because that's his bread and butter with his base. i -- the but i think his team recognizes politically -- >> that's half of this plan. border security is half of the plan that they're introduced. >> and i'm not saying he's walking away from it, but i think he and his team have recognized he has to start talking about -- chris: when you look at polls, i understand the wall and cracking down on illegal immigration plays dynamite with his base, but when you looked at polls, the american people are much more open, for instance, to a pathway to citizenship somewhere down the line. >> right. and -- exactly. people, that's sort of the hard-line approach, you know, that he has been taking is not where people are beyond his base. so i think he's trying to look for a way to open up the conversation. this may not be it, right? as we're seeing, he's running
into resistance even amongst people of his own party on the hill. but i think he's recognized what he's been doing is not going to work politically -- >> this is all about 2020, laying down a marker so he can say i have put forward an immigration plan and use it against whichever democrat emergings from this gigantic field. >> one of the great frustrations -- chris: you know what? save that thought. [laughter] >> thank you. chris: up next, our power player of the week. a biographer who has captured the essence of power, how to get it and use it in his award-winning books on lbj. ♪ ♪ smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are.
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♪ ♪ chris: he's one of america's greatest biographers, the winner of two pulitzer prizes. but he's taken a break from if his life's work to write about how he does that work, and loyal followers are freaking out. here's our power player of the week. ♪ ♪ chris: you must know that this is giving a lot of people heart burn. [laughter] >> yes, i do. you want to know the truth, it's heart warming that so many people are worried that i won't finish. chris: robert caro has spent more than half his life telling thety of lyndon johnson, four books, some 3400 pages.
but he's only up to 1964, not yet to vietnam. which is why, when he took a detour to write "working," it caused -- well, heart burn. >> i want people to have some idea of what it is the i do, how it is to research this type of book. chris: caro fans may not be happy he took time from finishing the story of lbj, but it is fascinating to learn how he goes about his master work. caro says he learned about research from the his editor at newsday back in the '60s. >> this guy looks up at me, and he says, just remember, turn every page. never assume anything. turn every page. chris: it's advice he's followed researching lyndon johnson. you walk into the lbj presidential library, and when you look up at the documents section, what do you see? >> you see at that time 32 million documents. they had 40,000 boxes, each of these boxes holds about 800
pages. that's the only time the i felt like turning around and going home. chris: caro says he has one big rule when interviewing. your notebooks are filled with a notation -- [laughter] >> yeah. chris: what does that mean? >> shut up. [laughter] people have a desire, a need to fill in silences. if you could just make yourself shut up, often they'll tell you what you want to know. chris: then there's writing. caro remembers what a professor at princeton told him. >> you're never going to achieve what you want to achieve, mr. caro, unless you stop thinking with your fingers. i knew exactly what he meant. it was so easy for me to write. i didn't think things through. chris: which brings us back to his final book on lbj which is about a third written. caro took us into his office. >> this is the outline to have the rest of my last volume. from here to there to end of the book over there. chris: he writes several drafts
in longhand, again, to slow himself down. >> after i've done a number of drafts, i go to typewriter, and i do a lot of drafts on the typewriter. then it goes into this box, and the box goes to my typist. chris: when i talked with caro after his last lbj book, he said it would take three or four years to finish the final volume. that was seven years ago, and he's now 83. are you really going to vietnam? >> yes. chris: why? >> i feel unless i see it and really understand it, i can't make the reader see it. chris: if you should be unable for whatever reason to finish the book, have you made provisions for somebody else? >> no. i've made provisions that nobody else can finish my book. nobody is going to publish anything with my name on it that i didn't write, not a word. chris: but caro is determined to finish the story of lyndon
johnson down to last word. on a smith corona 210. how many typewriters do you have? >> i have at this moment 11. chris: and will that get you through the end -- >> i'm worried. [laughter] [background sounds] chris: caro has tried to take care of everything. he uses old-fashioned carbon paper to make copies of what he types. a few years ago he bought what he says is a lifetime supply, just in case they stop making it. now this program note. join me back here at stephens high school in claremont, new hampshire, tonight at 7 p.m. eastern on fox news channel for a live town hall with mayor pete buttigieg. that's it for now. have a great week, and we'll see you next "fox news sunday. ♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪ paul: welcome to journal editorial report, i'm paul gigot. tensions with iran increasing in the week with the state department ordering the evacuation of all non-emergency staff from the u.s. embassy in baghdad. the evacuation comes as military officials warn of potential imminent threats to american troops and interests in the region. the secretary of state, mike pompeo, responding to critics who say the administration is exaggerating the threat and trying to goad iran into war. >> we fundamentally do not seek a war with iran, but we've also made clear to iranians that, if american interests are attack thed, we will most