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tv   Bulls and Bears  FOX News  November 13, 2010 10:00am-10:30am EST

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>> that's it for "fox & friends" this morning and thing for joining us see you tomorrow morning at 6 a.m. where alisyn will be in traction. join us for the after the show, show, friends@foxnews.com. thanks for everyone for coming. ♪ where it's snowing all winter through ♪ ♪ that's where i want to be >> tea partiers were going to be able to push through tax cuts all, but gone after the president says this. >> extending permanently the upper income tax cuts would be a mistake and that we can't afford it. >> and what it's to, this. the dow suffering the biggest weekly drop in three months. is the market telling us to forget what voters voted for?
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i'm brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears, let's get to it. gary b smith. tobin smith. eric bolling along with democratic strategist jgemu green. >> and dest. pete the election outcome? >> i really think so, brenda. remember a couple of months ago there were a few democratic senators and congress women saying maybe we should extend the bush era tax cuts forward. the market rally that week, 400 points and now there was confusion earlier in the week whether or not they'd be willing to extend the tax cuts temporarily and market held its own until mr. obama went on tv and said no, no, no, i'm not talking for everyone, just the people i've been talking about all along and nancy pelosi backed him up. guess what the market rolls over down 200 for the we cannot a good performance. >> i don't know if we actually looked the market longer term during the obama administration, it hasn't done that poorly.
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>> exactly and i think the reality is when eric says the people they've been talking about, those are the middle class americans. obama is interested in a tax cut from 98% of americans, from middle class americans. i'm sorry those are-- >> we are, too. >> those who voted to fix the economy, we cannot afford to have millionaires and billionaires to get $100,000 tax cut and cost us $700 billion dollars, we can't afford it. >> wait, i've got to go to toby because he will tell you the math as he likes to do. he lectures around here. >> i do. >> we know this line, go. >> the math is the math. 2% of these people pay about 25 to 28% of all the taxes. the top 10% pay almost 90% of the taxes so to say that, you use this percentile thing as if it's a flat number, but it's a multiplier of about 10 to 20 off that number. so, you can't in economic sense, you can say this in words, but in economic sense you can't make a case that
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says this won't hurt the economy at the margins and employers like me, guess what, until this is settled i'm going to cut 10% of my salaries so i can make the same money i made last year, nice knowing you. >> i've got to get to garry and then to you. what does it mean for the market and the economy? >> well, you know, it's interesting, brenda. in the clip we saw of obama. he said we can't afford to do extended tax cuts for the rich and i would argue, in fact, not only me, most economists would argue just the opposite. you can't afford not to. i think this whole politics here is clearly class warfare and wealth redistribution and a study came out and showed the multiplier, the effect from raising taxes. lowering taxes. the multiplier of raising taxes on gdp was negative 1.1. so for every dollar they take
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in the economy shrinks by 1.10. look at the flip side. christi christina romer herself, found the multiplier of tax cuts to be three. for every dollar in toks cuts the economy increases by $3. it's simple economics, forget about whether we can or can't afford or or the politics aside. it's just good for the economy to extend the tax cuts for everyone jemmu. >> christina roamer used to work for-- >> it's good for millionaires and billionaires. >> that's an old line, you need a new line. >> the 700 billion dollars that our economy would lose by extending to the wealthiest americans we can't afford it. >> you don't-- >> hold on, hold on, wait a minute. >> what you don't understand is that investment capital is what creates jobs. and this somehow does not permeate. those millionaires, people who
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make incomes in that area, are the ones who take capital and they don't spend it. gosh, they invest is. that investment creates jobs. if the obama administration doesn't understand that then, well, maybe we'd have a 10% unemployment rate. >> we need to invest in small businesses and small businesses are not going to receive the tax cuts and the small businesses needed investment. >> and let me talk about small business. >> let's talk about small businesses. everyone hates billionaires i get it. let they them pay. the reality is half of the people who are going to see the tax, 1/2 of those people, those groups, those filers are small businesses, and those are the people creating jobs. if you raise taxes on them, you will stop unemployment-- you will stop employment, you'll keep unemployment, who knows, elevated 10%. you can't do it right now. you can point your fenger at this the 5 or 10 billionaires that may experience higher
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rates. who cares, great. fantastic. small businesses will get hurt by this. >> small businesses are the ones who need the investments. 98% of small businesses owners would not be receiving these tax cuts that we are talking about. so, at theened of the day, i think voters, overwhelmingly said we've got to fix the economy, we've got to address this deficit and we cannot afford 700 billion dollars to give $100,000 tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires. >> can we afford not to. >> just using the math. say they took in the 700 billion dollars. that would shrink the economy by 770 billion dollars instead of increasing, raising the economy by 2.1 trillion dollars. look, she might hate billionaires and millionaires and all that, but fact is that 98%, those are people, individuals selling $5,000 worth of stuff on ebay, for crying out loud. toby is right, the great job
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generators are those, unfortunately, million nars and billionaires that are creating the wealth in this country and as i just pointed out the checks are behind extending the tax cuts, regardless of how you feel about class warfare or not. >> let me point out one other thing, you're throwing around the 700 million dollars. >> that's 7.8 on-- you know that's less than 2%, you cut back the budget less than 2% and you can extend the bush tax credits across the board, go forward and create jobs. >> the other thing we're missing is when you all say it's only 2%, you make it sound like those 2% only hire 2%, but the harvard studies and other economic studies have shown that those really bad 2% account for 28% of all of the hiring. that's a fact. >> we've got to let her have some time to take on all of those points, go ahead. >> i think it's amazing to think that these tax cuts for
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the wealthiest americans would absolutely go back into the economy when we know exactly where it would go. it would go to increasing-- >> where would itting. >> increasing their wealth. clearly the wealth gap between the have's and the have notes have been increasing and it would go into their banks, it would not go into job creation. it would not go into creating capital for small businesses. you know, why do we want to ten investing in the people o already have? we need to invest in the people who are struggling, who cannot pay their bills and to hear gary when you talk about who the 98% of the people are, these are the american people. it's the middle class. and backbone of the country. they deserve a tax cut. >> i'm pointing out. go ahead, ten seconds, gary. >> i was just pointing out, that's how you get this large number of the small businesses that includes these small entrepreneurs that are selling chachkis on ebay, that's a
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large percentage of them. >> that's got to be the last word. >> slash 200,000 government jobs in ten years, that's the debt commission pitch, but someone here found 400,000 d.c. jobs that can be slashed right now. and we're talking serious savings. and rioting over tuition hikes, are students in america next? when they hear about hiking keys to get this, save union pensions? . hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices? sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi plce around the corner. well, in that case, i better get bk to these invoices... whh i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie.
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>> live from america's news headquarters, i'm jamie colby. president obama speaking at a business conference saying that they'll benefit for stronger trade relationships and the president is looking to double u.s. exports within five years and believes selling more goods to asians will help to meet that goal and create more jobs at home and the president has more meetings tomorrow in japan and returns to washington tomorrow night. and right now, in florida, a navy missile destroyer named for med tal of honor recipient jason dunham is being commissioned and you're looking at live pictures. after 2004 after he threw himself on a grade to protect other members of his convoy in iraq and president george w. bush presented his parents with the medal of honor and dunham christened by his mom. jamie colby, back to bulls and bears. bears. >> the debt commission taking
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flak for calling the cut 200,000 government jobs. even though they wouldn't start slashing until 2012. those critics better sit down for erik's plan to save taxpayers a bundle. and fire away. >> here we go, brenda. forget 10% over the next ten years, how about 20% right now, slash 400,000 government jobs right now, guess what, it saves 48 billion dollars a year, times ten years, almost half a trillion dollar, that's an amazing amount of money and start doing it right now. in the private sector they'd do it right away and in the government, ten years to pass it. >> in the private sector, many of us have faced cut benefits, cut jobs all the way around. what about on uncle sam's payroll, doesn't eric's plan make sense? >> i think it's pretty clear to most americans that what they need to hear is you're hired not are' fired. we're clawing our way out of
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this recession and eric, you want to just take a bulldozer and-- >> no, i want them to hear you're hired in the private sector, you're fired in the government's federal sector and bring them over to the private sector where the job will be there for good. >> it's great that jobs in the private sector have been increasing over the last ten months and if we expect to continue to see those increases, but you also have to take into account the services that federal workers provide for us. just we're not going to have food safety inspectors and we're not going to have people inspecting mines and veterans waiting to get benefits and elderly and disabled having to navigate the social security system. make it more difficult for them. this is not the way that-- to get us out of the recession is to fire 400,000 people. >> gary b, talk about the money and the compensation gap we see sometimes between federal and private workers? >> exactly, brenda.
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let's just stipulate that jehmu is right, every single federal employee does a wonderful job, okay? we'll stipulate that. the fact is that if you're comparing even look like for like jobs for the private sector just or salary alone to get about 60% more, like to like jobs, lawyers to lawyers or gardeners to gardeners and if you throw in benefits they get about double the private sector, so, you can clearly see jehmu, the affect that unionization, the government is the biggest employer out there has on wages. as eric points out we simply can't afford it. you can adopt eric's approach that's fine or maybe we'll do a combination of what you and eric were talking about, maybe privatize it, for example, canada, all the air traffic contollers there are privatized. we can do the same thing here and cut expenses.
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>> brenda: okay, you think with unemployment nearly double digits, thank you for joining us for this segment. this is not the time to do this. >> took 80 years to make the government big. you can't inwind it in two years, that's aggressive. i like the idea to reducing, but eric wants to dump 20% arbitrarily. >> not arbitrarily. >> forget it-- >> it's a number that you want to cut the government during recession or during the weak economy, doesn't sound like a good idea in my opinion. >> brenda: hold on. what does history tell us, tobin, happened few times, post world war ii. >> tobin the professor. what if the amount of people making over $150,000 in the federal government has doubled by a hundred, gone up 150,000 the last few years, that was not 80 years in creation, that happened significantly last 24 months. number two, let's look to
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world war ii. we cut the payroll 50, 58% after world war ii as we built up and you know, not only did the economy not fall apart, and unemployment rates went up because they went into the private sector, you know what, if i work in the public sector, i would be mad, too, taking a 50% hair cut for doing the same thing. if the 2% are going to sacrifice along with 98%, let's sacrifice together. >> jehmu, seconds to take them on. >> we cannot say you're fired to hundreds of thousands of government. >> we did in the private sector. >> and that's going backward. >> brenda: and cavuto platform showing up in debt commission plan and lawmakers complaining it won't save real money, even some senate republicans are whining. why neil's gang is telling them to just say no to the
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gateway drug at the bottom of the hour. but first, rioting in england over tuition hikes, to cut government debt. now, worries what some u.s. students will do when they find out about higher fees to help pay for union pensions. ♪
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>> in 60 seconds. fired up over commission hikes. they're doing it to cut the debt and we're doing it to fund u
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>> protesting u.k. students taking to the streets over
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tuition hikes intended to cut government spending. the same week, some call california colleges approving a 15% tuition increase, not to decrease spending, but to help fund union pensions. toby, you say it's time to protest all the union favors instead? >> they should be. you know, to jehmu's point to insuring the middle class, over the last ten years the same educators, over ten years have a 45% increase in pay, in benefits, while the scores have gone downhill and graduation rates have gone down and they wouldn't have been fired in any other private business, but no, middle class hasn't had money go up in ten years. >> brenda: what do you think. >> students are graduating with tens of thousands of dollars in debt and top managers at these institutions should not be getting pay increases, but this isn't this union favors. you know, these increases are about increasing enrollment and number of people people
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graduating from college. >> brenda: the pension fund as well. eric, what message does this send? >> well, it's another example the union pricing themselves out of the market. keep requiring more and more tenure, more salaries, more benefits. and we need to cut the unions, the teacher's unions are some of the strongest unions around, break them. >> brenda: jonas, what do you say? >> and we don't have riots like those, california solving their problems, look, and i took accounting classes, i don't care if they solve by cutting revenues, as long as they're helping the states. raise the tuitions. >> brenda: and the gary b. >> the key here though is why is there a problem and clearly the problem is the unions. substitute, take out the california, the colleges and universities, substitute general motors and the steel industry, the unions killed the steel industry. they killed the auto industry and now trying to kill
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education if they haven't already killed education so that's what you're going to get. >> brenda: jehmu, ten seconds last word. >> this isn't about favors. the pensions first and foremost are to continue paying people who were working in public service and helping to educate our students to make us a stronger force in the global economy, but students should not be graduating with tens of thousands of dollars in debt. it's a problem that has to be addressed. >> brenda: that's got to be the last word and we appreciate you for joining us. nancy pelosi throwing a bash, celebrating this? that's right. the accomplishments of spending 6 trillion bucks. the name that could put a damper on the spending party and have you toasting the profits.
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>> predictions. and we've got toby in the hot seat. go ahead. >> the body scanner thing with the pilots. get real. body scanners are here and the systems are one of the makers and i think they're up 30, 40% after the pilots give up. >> bullish or bear. >> gather i b your prediction. >> brenda the latest greece, if you will, is ireland. i don't think ireland is greece at all. allied irish bank has gotten nailed and i think it's going to make a huge rebound up 50%. >> toby bull or bear? >> you know, i'd like to be very honest, they're not going to make it my friend, i'm sorry. >> jonas your prediction. >> call of duty video game hit the street biggest seller ever, almost a third of a billion good for activision and blizzard-- >> our video game player gary b. bull or bear. >> bearish, unauthorized stock split on friday and going to

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