the challenges that the catholic church has to address. how prepared you think the catholic church is to address these issues or, to put it more bluntly, reform? >> there is a strong will in the church, among the hierarchy. that was also clear at the pre- conclave meetings, that there is -- i almost said an almost desperate need to reform. i think particularly from the north americans, who have suffered strongly from me -- the child abuse scandal.
it was particularly scandalous in north america, and there is a deep sense the church needs to reform. we are moving now into a close- up of the -- of the balcony. as i say, i'm straining my eyes to see. it has disappeared. i'm straining my eyes to see whether we could see shadows behind the curtain. we should, at any moment -- >> in the meantime, we are seeing lots of cheering, waving people. all as excited about who the new pope is going to be as well as the catholic viewers, all waiting to see the identity of the new pope. you were mentioning earlier that the cardinals conclave -- it has ended much quicker than we thought. >> this is extraordinary.
the amount of time that it took -- it is the same amount of time approximately that it took to elect the previous pope. it's not extraordinarily fast. it only surprise many of us because there was no favorite. therefore, there was a great deal of speculation about the cardinals being divided and therefore taking a long time, having to choose a compromise candidate. now it would appear that because of the time span, they did not choose a compromise candidate. my analysis would be that they decided fairly early on somebody who had a simple majority. in the papal election, benedict xvi revised that to make sure the new pope had very widespread support throughout the world. he reintroduced the old condition that the pope has to achieve at least a 2/3 majority.
in this case, 78 votes is a minimum out of 112. that is 2/3, plus one. because 112 is not divisible by 3. it would be extraordinary if the pope had only achieved it by 78 votes. he probably had even more. that indicates to me that, as i said, if it is not a compromise candidate, it is somebody who the cardinals, a considerable number of the cardinals decided very, very early, probably last evening or even early this morning, that was the man that they believed was best equipped to lead the church through this very difficult period, where there are so many huge challenges, varied challenges. they are so varied. we are trained in north america and europe to be very eurocentric and america centric
-- americacentric. in africa, there -- perhaps crisis is too much. the problems and challenges of the church in africa are things like animism. i hope i don't sound condescending. i imagine there are quite a lot of people on the streets of berlin who don't know what animism is. traditional worship of ancestors. it conflicts with the catholic faith. it is almost an hour since we saw the white come out of the chimney -- >> it is almost an hour since we saw the white smoke come out of the chimney. the crowd is getting restless -- a bit restless. >> so are we. it is taking rather longer than we thought. >> let's absorb the atmosphere a bit.
we are waiting to hear who that new pope is. we are waiting for him to appear on the balcony, and his identity will be revealed. while we are doing that, let's look at some pictures coming to you live from st. peter's square. the speed with which the cardinals conclave has come up with the decision has surprised some of the observers. we are seeing a rustling of curtains on that balcony. this could be the moment. >> this looks very much like it , amrita. >> we are seeing the shadows. it could be the moment that the identity of the new pope will be
bit old for the robe. he is a man who is deeply respected for his deep, deep spirituality. he is a person who has made extraordinary -- an extraordinary stand in latin america and argentina for the poor. and he is a person who is greatly loved. not a manager sort of person. i was saying earlier that the cardinals would probably want somebody who is a strong manager. this is a man who will be a pope who will be a spirit chill ideal, perhaps even, for many people. this is a man who, when he became a bishop, he moved into a little flat rather than into the bishop's palace. he cooked his own meals. he traveled by bus rather than going by car. when he was appointed cardinal, he told the people of buenos
aires, don't waste your money going to rome to see me be made a cardinal. give it to the poor. >> about 50% of the world's catholics live in latin america. >> it will be received with huge delight in latin america. i don't think that is a primary concern of the cardinals. i think that what has really -- has probably persuaded most of them that bergoglio is the right man is he is a man who is -- whose personal authenticity, his -- whose personal authenticity is absolutely overwhelming. you may disagree with his views, his theology, he is quite conservative in terms of his moral views and his dogma, but he is a person who -- i don't think there is any doubt he is a person who is absolutely authentic in his location. -- location. as
-- vocation. >> is this surprise you -- does this surprise you? , it does. i thought -- we just saw a pope resign because he said he was not up to the challenges of the job. his physicals ranks was not -- physical strength was not up to it. with the goalie of being elected -- with bergoglio being elected, how many years of good health will he have, with these huge challenges that face the pope, the travel alone involved, the reforms, the structural reforms, and so on? >> he has picked the name of francis. how important is the choice of name for the pope jacko >> hugely - -- for the pope? >> hugely important.
i'm sure most people think of francis of assisi, the little, poor man. that is the great inspiration, one of the great inspirations of bergoglio's own life. i think -- i say this half jokingly, but i think some of the cardinals will be afraid that he will wander through the vatican and start selling off the treasures. he is quite radical in his sense of the way the gospel is a gospel message to the poor and the downtrodden. i think that will be -- social justice and the cause of the poor will certainly be a highlight of his papacy. >> what does this choice tell you about the general direction in which the catholic church is now expected to go under his papacy? >> i think, particularly, the child abuse scandal, but also the vatican scandal, have
confronted the cardinal and catholics like myself with the fact that the church, during the 20th century, really became very worriedly -- worldly. that a large number of people who could find them each for themselves where they could really betray the art in the principles of the faith and what christianity very -- christianity at its best -- could really betray the principles of the faith and what christianity at its best stands for. i think the cardinals have decided a manager would be useful, somebody who can come in here and clean shop would be useful, but even more important is somebody who can present the basic message of christianity in its love and compassion, its concern for those who need somebody to stand up for them. >> many would argue that the
catholic church also needed good governance, good managerial skills, good administrative skills, especially after the vatileaks. will he be able to deliver on those accounts? >> my first thought is mandatory. i hope he will be wise enough to appoint people who are you he is a highly intelligent man. he is very simple and straightforward and humble. that does not mean one is incapable of making wise and clever decisions. we will see in the next weeks and months if he starts changing people in senior positions in the vatican. >> pokes tend to contrast greatly with their predecessors. is it possible -- pokepes tend - popes tend to contrast greatly
with their predecessors. is it possible already to tell how different he will be from his predecessor? >> pope benedict's great contribution was that he set up the intellectual framework for the necessary reform of the church. he wrote what i think will be a seminal work that will be read for many years, at least by theologians within the church, on the life of jesus christ here that's getting back to the roots did secondly, he wrote his general letters -- on the life of jesus christ. that is getting back to the roots. secondly, he wrote his general letters -- his first one on love. benedict was viewed by many people as being very conservative and rigid. he does not talk about what you should not do. he talks about the positive effects of love, hope, and faith. he set up the framework. i think that pope francis is
going to probably try to give substance in a very human way to that framework that has been provided in an intellectual way. >> we saw a flurry of cardinals their -- there. possibly pope francis is among those cardinals and he will be appearing shortly on the balcony. people are waiting in suspense to see their new pope.
[applause]if you have just joined us, you are watching a special edition of the journal -- "journal" coming to you from berlin. the catholics have a new pope here his name is francis -- new pope. his name is francis i. give us a summary of what we have just seen. >> there were a few surprises for me in what we have just seen. every pope stages, to a certain
extent, this first appearance a little differently. francis i appeared to be in a white cassock -- appeared simply in a white cassock. the fact that he was not wearing the pallium -- that is the sign of his papacy in the liturgical sense. it was a very humble appearance. i thought it was interesting in comparison to recent popes who usually, with both hands, even joseph ratzinger, accepting the greeting from the crowd. he stood there with his hands at the side, almost helplessly. i don't think helplessly at all. a man with extraordinary authenticity.