tv Taiwan Outlook PBS September 30, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
>> hello and welcome. i am françois picard. coming up, just when it seemed like he might ride into the sunset, silvio berlusconi is back and he has turned the tables on his rivals, pulling his ministers out of a fragile coalition. is it really all down to one man? by the way, this is not just italy's problem. berlusconi is fighting his ban from politics has all of europe
wondering if the continent should be worried about the crisis in italy. prolonged wrangling, snap elections casting doubt over that country's brittle recovery. we will look at dysfunctional politics in italy and beyond. we will also be checking in with james in our media watch segment. in our newsroom, let's say hello once again to calire. >> these are the headlines. washington marches towards its first federal shutdown in 17 years. if there is no deal on the budget before midnight, 700,000 staff could be sent home. say some prayers for italy, the words of italy's prime minister, enrico letta, as he battles to save his coalition. turkey announces major political reforms in keeping the peace process with the kurds on the road. they include changes to the electoral system.
first, to the u.s., where barack obama says he is not at all resigned to a government shutdown. this as democrats and republican lawmakers fail to agree on a new budget. that means that at midnight, the government might have to close all nonessential federal services. with more on the potential impact of the government shutdown, here is olivia. >> for many federal workers in the u.s., their paycheck is hanging in the balance. staff at national parks, museums, and other services could be getting some unexpected time off over the next few days. >> there is a sense of frustration. i just heard on cnn that congress went home and did not work through the night. the are here. a lot of us live paycheck to paycheck so we are concerned about it. >> the u.s. is facing the possibility of a nationwide shutdown involving a number of federal institutions, tourist
attractions like yellowstone, the everglades, and the statue of liberty would be shut. the national gallery in washington would have to close their doors too. the pentagon has warned that they could furlough some of their civilian staff. the environmental protection agency could suspend monitoring operations. schools could be affected and the u.s. congress and the white house would have to put some nonessential staff on unpaid leave. the situation could prove catastrophic. financial analysts estimate the shutdown could cost up to $8 billion or week. -- per week. some state structures would not be hit, u.s. border control, food inspection, and the federal reserve would operate as normal. it all stems from the gridlock in government with republicans than democrats at loggerheads over a funding deal over obamacare. the u.s. has already faced a
nationwide shutdown in november and december of 1995, some 800,000 federal employees were ordered to stay at home. as well as having to deal with the looming shutdown, barack obama had tense talks with israel's prime minister this monday. the meeting focusing on iran's diplomatic offensive. this a few days after iran's president spoke to president obama on the phone, having told the un's general assembly that his country poses no threat to the world. obama told netanyahu that he would be clear eyed in talks with iran. the israeli leader urged them to keep sanctions in place. netanyahu will address the un's general assembly on tuesday. today, it was the turn of syria's foreign minister, among others. this a few days after adopting a resolution ridding the country of chemical weapons.
he said those who were fighting the regime are terrorists and that they are being supplied with chemical weapons. >> there is no civil war in syria. it is a war against terror. this very city, new york, and its people, have witnessed the devastation of terrorism. they were burnt with the fire of extremism and bloodshed the same way we are suffering now in syria. how can some countries hit by the same terrorist acts that we are experiencing now in syria claimed to be fighting terrorism in all parts of the world while supporting it in my country? >> moving onto the latest political crisis in italy, the prime minister is battling to save his coalition after silvio berlusconi pulled his ministers from the cabinet. enrico letta will go to parliament for a confidence vote and he said he will resign if he does not win. henry brown has the story. >> an attempt by silvio berlusconi to save his skin, this time by causing the
collapse of the prime minister's government. >> several weeks since his conviction in early august by the court of appeal for tax fraud banning him from public office for three years. several weeks and a game of chess has been played in italy to avoid berlusconi's fall. >> on friday, the senate committee is due to decide on his fate. or the sony hopes to bring about early elections by then. -- berlusconi hopes to bring about early elections by then. >> you can expect a majority of parliament, which would prevent his decline again and again and again. >> he is not the only one wanting a return to the polls. the northern league and beppe grillo's five-star movement have also expressed hopes for elections. if he does not attract enough support in parliament on
wednesday, the italian president may prefer to name a new prime minister. it might not even come to that. as many as 20 senators from berlusconi's party are said to be ready to form a breakaway group if threats continue to bring down italy's government, a -- letta's coalition. >> the latest political crisis had a negative impact on the european markets. here to talk us through it is markets. in italy -- is marcus. in italy, share prices plunged and borrowing costs were up. >> absolutely. of course, italy was hard hit. the stock market was down 1.2%. borrowing costs or interest rates that italy is paying have gone up to a three-month high. there are concerns in the markets. we need to say that it was not as bad towards the close of
european trading as it was during the morning hours here on monday in europe due to the fact that there are reports that 20 senators from silvio berlusconi's party may go against him, which has put a little bit of -- it has dampened the market concern, to a certain extent. italy has a lot of investor eyes on it due to the fact that it is the third biggest member of the eurozone. it is also the third biggest bond market in the world after the united states and japan. due to the fact that it has immense debts to the tune of more than 2 trillion euros. of course, if there is political turmoil in italy, the concern is that its economy will go down the drain. >> it is not just italy riling the markets. investors concerned about what is happening in the u.s., a potential government shutdown.
>> republicans and democrats are continuing to run on capitol hill. so far, not really a deal in sight between these two parties. which means that at midnight washington time, the u.s. government or part of the u.s. government will shut down, which means that 800,000 civil servants would have to stay home on tuesday without pay if that goes through. there are concerns from the markets about what that will mean for the u.s. economy. those concerns are limited at the time because economists say that if this shutdown is limited in time, if it lasts for a couple of days or maybe up to two weeks, it is not going to hit the u.s. economy that hard. if the shutdown is longer, about a months time, moody's warns that it could take 1.4% of the u.s. growth this year. >> thank you very much indeed. it is not enough. that is the reaction from turkeys pro-kurdish peace and
democracy party after the prime minister announced a package of proposals aimed at democratic reform. a few months after a cease-fire was declared, they include new kurdish rights. >> a speech about reforms that was long-awaited. in the audience, a woman in a headscarf. a secular country with a population that is 99% muslim, turkey was founded on secularism and many still hold the principal dear. monday, her husband announced the ban would be lifted. >> we are lifting the ban that bars women from wearing their heads car. -- their head scarf. this is a file asian and discriminates against freedom of religion. >> the speech has been dubbed a democratization package, making he concessions to kurds, making
up about 1/5 of the population, to make it easier to get to parliament. the kurds must win 10% of the vote to gain representation. erdogan said that could be trimmed to five percent or even lower. >> as a third option, we can remove the national rush holt altogether and implement a narrow electoral system. >> analysts say his biggest concern is jumpstarting the kurdish peace process. they gradually began withdrawing fighters. in return, they demanded raider rights and representation. everyone -- erdogan is trying to rebuild his public image. this year's protests grew into wider ranging criticism about his government. >> that is all for now. it is time to cross over to francois for the debate. >> thanks.
just when we were told that the worst was passed for the eurozone, can one man alone like diffuse of a fresh crisis? silvio berlusconi has ordered his cabinet ministers to slam the door on italy's grand coalition. it is over a height and value added tax. critics claim the 77-year-old is simply holding the country hostage over the senate's upcoming vote to bar him from office. berlusconi cabinet members have -- are trying to hedge their bets. you can see him watching on as the prime minister speaks, claiming he is pro-berlusconi, but in a different way. those ministers still resigning and enrico letta is still going to have a tough time cobbling together a noah -- another coalition. this has markets worried.
the last time italians went to the polls, it took nearly two months to form a government. more gridlock could kill the palm -- the promise of a recovery inside the eurozone's third-largest economy. it is not just in italy, where politics can seem broken these days. the latest nation to see the big inroads is neighboring austria, which voted in a general election this sunday. today, we are looking at berlusconi turning the tables on his rivals. with us from brussels, a member of the european parliament from berlusconi's pdl party, fabrizio bertot. is that the proper way to pronounce it? >> no. it is ber tot with the t on the end. >> let's set the record straight. thanks for that. from london, costas lapavitsas. welcome back to the debate.
welcome back as well to francesco saraceno of the french policy watchdog, the ofce. thomas friang, who is the founder of youth diplomacy, welcome back as well. and we welcome valentin kreilinger of the pro-europe think tank, notre europe. you can always join the conversation on facebook and twitter. #f24debate. right now, fabrizio bertot, a meeting of the pdl party taking place. there has been some dissent in the ranks. five cabinet members have slammed the door of the coalition. let's state the record clearly. did they do the right thing, following berlusconi's order to leave the government? >> i suppose they did.
the opinion is that the economics cannot support an increase in the tax. i think that is the time to put order in our accounts. but we cannot do it -- >> is this really about raising v.a.t. or stopping silvio berlusconi from being barred from office? >> it is not a problem, berlusconi and the politics alone. if he wanted to do something, he had to do it. the problem is exclusively economic. i just saw an urgency about berlusconi, he declared that he is ready to take on all the economic arguments in the next week. we are ready to do our part for the improvement of what is
necessary. but we need elections. people have to choose between the tax party and the no tax party. >> is this about raising the v.a.t.? >> i am an economist, so there are many issues here in italy. one of them is berlusconi, who has held hostage the whole political system. because of his personal affairs. and then there are the problems of the difference in views among the different parties of the coalition on how to get out of this crisis and put the housing in order. >> you think that those ministers left so that silvio berlusconi will not lose his are the mentoring immunity? -- his elementary -- his pa rliamentary immunity?
>> yes. >> so a difference of opinion on the timing. the locals with a it or taste on the unfolding political drama. -- with a bitter taste on the unfolding political drama. >> everything is so corrupted around us that we have already drowned. >> it is our fault. we are to blame. we all need to go there with our pitchforks and take everyone out. ron berlusconi to the president. -- from berlusconi to the president. >> it is hard to believe that italians who cannot find a job have to worry about the problems of just one single person, berlusconi. >> some people angry with berlusconi. some saying kick the bums out, all of them. >> it is not an issue with italy or we spoke about austria, you can speak about germany and france. we carry a survey stating that
52% of people do not believe in politics and a democratic and national framework is no longer responsive to today's challenges. that may be another part of the crisis that italy is going through. the political instability, politicians are no longer able to carry on reform needed to prove that national politicians can address the trial and is -- the challenges. of course, mr. letta will not only be able to lead his way, but italy will have to find a new government to prove that it is able to lead the reform needed. >> we will get back to the issue of how to deal with the crippling debt in italy. first, let's go to rome and senator lucio malan joins us
right now. he is also with the pdl party. just came out of a meeting with the party, where they have been discussing the parties stance -- party's stance. what was the crux of it? we have been hearing some within the party wavering over berlusconi's order to quit the government. >> yes, good evening. we had this meeting with the ministers. mostly members of the government , those who expressed some disapproval of the decisions. at the end of this meeting, we all agreed that the good thing to do was to be ready to pass all the urgent measures that we have in the parliament to prevent the raising of the sales
tax and the added value tax. >> are you suggesting that if there is a compromise, those ministers will not quit the government? >> yes. they already did quit the government. they are ready to continue along the party. they expressed some worry about the fact that our decision could not be wel understood, so the decision was to explain what was behind what we have proposed and what we have not been able to get from the current government. we agreed that we asked for new elections as soon as possible. in the meantime, we are ready to pass the urgent measures in the parliament currently.
and also to stop the rays of the sales tax -- the raise of the sales tax. >> let's just be very clear. if there is agreement on stopping this hike of the sales tax, will your ministers return to government and will there be -- will you avoid having to have a snap election? >> no, because we have seen that we have conceptions about government, how to manage the economy, that are not compatible. we do not want to raise taxes. the proposal of the democratic party in order to prevent raising the sales tax was to increase the taxes on the fuel.
that was not really serious, to exchange one tax or another one. >> what you are saying is come what may, you are still calling for snap elections. >> yes, we are. we need strong decisions. >> one other question for you. interior minister has been quoted as saying that he is pro- berlusconi in a different way. are you pro-berlusconi in a different way? >> well, i support the views made tonight and i also think that what he said was we have to be very careful not to senior responsible -- to seem irresponsible and to be careful
about the public opinion. we have to explain very well our group. we have to tell the truth. the truth is that we need strong decisions. this cabinet has performed some good things. but we need to do more in a stronger way. to do that, the only way is to have elections and let the people decide either in favor of the democratic party or our platform. >> many thanks for joining us coming out of that meeting of silvio berlusconi's pdl party in rome. i will begin with you, read dilbert out -- fabrizio bertot. did i hear correctly that there was a nuanced endorsement of mr. berlusconi? he did kind of agree that you have to be wary the way you handle things around silvio berlusconi these days.
>> i do not think there are so many differences in our party. lucio malan said that at the end of the meeting this afternoon, they decided to go on approving the economic measures. so i think this is a good position. anyway, there are no possibilities to be part of a government that is thinking about more taxes. because taxes are the limits of participation in this government. it is not stable for our programs. we just have to explain that there is nothing to do with the justice problem of berlusconi.
they are older than this decision. last week, the commission brought forward his excommunication from the parliament and the judges are doing their jobs. but the problem in italy is an economic problem. >> disagreement of opinion between you and francesco saraceno. let me get you to react to what lucio malan said. he seemed to hedge his bets a little bit when it came to that statement about being pro- berlusconi in a different way. >> i am sorry. >> one at a time. francesco saraceno. >> i do believe it is not as political as it looks. we will see what happens in the next 48 hours.
we will see how enrico letta approaches the confidence vote on wednesday. there may be a few different scenarios. what is interesting to me is the economics of all that. it is not clear today. first of all, it is not clear what should we do to solve the problem today. this is a real question in the sense that the berlusconi party says expenditure has been ruling italy 49 of the past 10 years and they basically did not cut any expenditures. how do you manage it under the urgency of a few months? they will do what has been done in the past. the second issue is that the reason why the v.a.t. is increasing is because we
abolished tax on real estate that every other country in europe as in one form or another. we are the only country that does not tax homeownership. that is something we should consider. >> we cannot stretch the blanket from all the sides. >> i do not agree. first of all, the declaration about the difference made by our secretary was done yesterday. worried about the possibility to vote the economic measures for this week and the next week. this afternoon, we have made clear that we will vote what is necessary for our economy.
the declaration to be over the stone in a different way -- to be pro-berlusconi in a different way, it belonged to yesterday. now we are in another scenario. another thing that is important, it is true that we removed the tax on real estate. in italy, 80% of the families are owners of their home and their house. so the tax on the first property is really -- the result is that in building houses, there are big increases getting this kind of tax. >> for now, still no real estate
tax. on twitter, we have reaction. "let berlusconi and not the fresh election he called for." what is your reaction? >> italy has major problems. it's real problem is lack of growth. this is similar to france. which also has problems of lack of growth, not as severe as italy. how italy will rearrange its public finances by where italy will get grow from. both italy and france belonged to a monetary system that is quite clearly dysfunctional. the lack of growth and the stagnation asked do with the eu,
which does not work. it works in the interest of a few countries in europe. >> we are back to the eurozone crisis. we are going to pick up on that point. we have to take a quick break, unfortunately. stay with us. much more to come. >> before we resume the debate, a sample of the stories that we will be following at the top of the hour right here. the un's general assembly, in a speech, the syrian foreign minister compares the rebel offensive to the september 11 attacks on the united states. israel's prime minister is in washington. netanyahu meeting obama. obama says he is not at all resigned to a government shutdown. he expects to speak to congressional leaders during the
day and in the ensuing days. we are heading towards the first federal shutdown in 17 years if there is no deal on a budget by midnight. wall street is down because of the looming closure of many government services. turkey announcing major political reform aimed at keeping the peace process with the kurds on track. they include changes to the electoral system. we will have those stories and much more for you on the top of the hour. welcome back or welcome if you are just joining us. italy with the prospect of a vote on wednesday, whether or not we will find out if italy is going to have to face snap elections after silvio berlusconi pulled his five ministers out of a coalition
government. the italians went to the polls in february. it was a long, protracted process because they -- before they came out with this patchwork government. it has all of europe worried. we are talking about it from brussels. he is a member of the european parliament, fabrizio bertot. from london, costas lapavitsas, author of "crisis in the eurozone." he teaches at soas in the eurozone. francesco saraceno of the osce. thomas friang of europenova and valentin kreilinger. to celebrate his 77th birthday, silvio berlusconi telephoned a rally with his party in naples.
[indiscernible] >> of course, it was not his 37th, it was his 77th. are you surprised at the fact that silvio berlusconi, who recently said he was going to take more and more of a backseat role? >> maybe we should adjust to the famous smile between angela merkel and nicolas sarkozy that actually killed silvio berlusconi politically at the european level. he is still trying to come back. he still wants to be in politics. but at the european level, there is a deep lack of confidence from his peers. if he actually takes a more active role and tries to take a
more active role in italy, this sort of political instability that comes along and that is now appearing is dangerous for the european union as well. >> italy continues to be the joke of europe, says alex on twitter. italy needs to move into a post berlusconi era asap. that is one twitter reaction. in paris and london, they say the crisis is no laughing matter. >> are we going to see a repeat of what we saw in april? political paralysis, which gripped the market for a couple of months. the italians working together in order to form a viable government. that is not the case. it is very fragile out there. >> we saw this monday that
italian lending rates were up while the stock market was down. is this going to have a profound effect on the markets, on economics? the fact that we are perhaps entering a period of uncertainty? >> of course it is going to do it, not so much he does -- because, not so much in the short term, because we are still oneok sturgeon tank of the ecb and there is no reason the supply will stop working. i do agree that italy is a chronically depressed country. as long as italy does not put its act together, it will remain the weak man of europe. i also do not think that the european recipes are what we should do.
>> do you agree? funny two percent v.a.t. is crazy and that you should not be taxing people too much? >> it is one of the things that is keeping demand down. if i were at the government, i would increase the taxes. this is where i strongly disagree with mr. bertot. i would give tax breaks to firms and the poor and middle classes. that is not going to happen because we are in a situation of political fragility. i agree with the previous remark, within the eurozone that is strongly dysfunctional. it is very bad for growth. >> for your consideration, first, you say that i heard about the position of sarkozy and angela merkel that were
against berlusconi. they tried to make him ridiculous. just consider that nicolas sarkozy now has disappeared completely from the political scenario. and angela merkel has to make an accord with the socialists because she does not have a majority in her country. not her party, but her coalition. so i think that they tried to make him look ridiculous, but the result was a bit different. another consideration, it is true that the financial markets today have a problem. they lost one point something
percent. on friday, we had the news for the possibility of a decrease. i think this can be the result of the news. it is not possible for our economy to accept this kind of tax on our purchases or customer habits. >> thomas friang, when the german elections took place, everybody was saying for months leading up to them that there was a lot of grandstanding going on in a lot of countries. once these german elections are over, we will be able to sit down and have an adult conversation about how to really reform. last year, we have not been able to do it because everybody has been in electoral mode. the german elections have happened and we have a new crisis in italy. >> i would like to say that i am not so sure that we cannot have
another conversation on the future of europe without the great momentum of the elections in the national framework. i was a bit afraid seeing angela merkel saying that they would speak about the european future after the elections. on the other hand, i am not so sure that now that the german elections have passed, that we will be able to build up the momentum for europe. >> in other words, we are scrambling. we are stuck in 2009. >> we are. italy is now focused on its national stakes and france is missing the point that there is a rendezvous with germany about the future of europe. even in the next year, when the european elections will take
place, i am not so sure that they will be -- that there will be democratic debate in france about the future of europe. >> in a wall street journal column, simon noxon writes that the euro has survived despite politics rather than because of it. what matters is whether democratic governments can adapt themselves to the unfamiliar disciplines of sound money. he asks this question. are european governments willing to confront cronyism, confront -- corruption, and unaffordable privileges? >> that is to change the topic and put it in the wrong direction. italy exemplifies the choice faced in europe now. it is an impossible choice. if things continue, the economy will keep having problems.
or they can adopt what the germans have done, more taxes and cuts and driving wages down in hopes of making their economy more efficient. the choice imposed on italy is impossible and it is similar to the choice imposed in france. the answer is not in rome. the answer is in paris and berlin. not a lot is going to go well in europe. the periphery of europe has been pacified because it has been browbeaten. people taking huge wage cuts and huge recessions. that is to mollify and make the crisis is here. -- easier.
i think this is what we will see in france in the coming period. >> the ball is in berlin's court. looking for a situation like the one in italy. >> indeed, germany is dominating europe through its economic power. the ball is indeed in the field of berlin and angela merkel. we must now wait for the negotiation. there is actually a franco german document that was signed on the 30th of may by francois hollande and angela merkel. france and germany together for a stronger european stability and growth. >> does it include things like lowering the sales tax question mark 22% -- the sales tax? 22% in italy is huge. >> the document is a roadmap that could lead to further steps in completing the economic and
monetary policies. steps that are necessary. the tax is that the national level, monitored by the european commission. these decisions take place and there is a so-called european semester, which is budgetary surveillance of the budgets of the member states by the commissioner, the economic and monetary affairs commissioner. these are decisions to be taken at the national level. for making the union function better, they must be taken. how they are taken is the decision of the national level. the european commission will play a larger role now and this is good in order to assure economic and monetary union. >> it is very clear that, either way, whether it is enrico letta,
the outgoing social democrat, dp, sorry, left of center leader, who tries to form the next government or not, that whoever tries to form the new government has some difficult choices to make at the national level. >> of course. i totally agree. the solution of the european crisis, i would not say it is in berlin. i would say it is in brussels. with the given situation, italy has to work on the margin. i still believe that, using v.a.t. money to not reduce social spending is a good thing. in a country with a very high tax evasion rate, it is very difficult to obtain such a
justice using tax as an income. we have to use taxes on consumption and property once again. that said, the problem is that if we do not see a change of policy that is basically keeping down growth in the south but also in france and sooner or later, even in the core, germany and countries that seem more healthy, it is not going to be solved. but i am optimistic. i hope the solution will be in brussels and not in berlin. i hope we will have a beer european decision-maker in the future. >> let's get to the man who is in brussels, fabrizio bertot. the have a comment on twitter that says berlusconi is endangering its dying government because of his ego and the european people's party continues to support him. the center-right coalition to which your party belongs to in the european parliament. how are things when it comes to
other people who are inside the epp? what do they think about this? >> we have discussed a lot about our national situation. as you know, europe has not competence in the fiscal measures. >> where you are sitting right now in brussels is not the place where italy's problems are going to be solved? >> no. we discuss a lot and talk about the economy. as you know, in the south of europe, we propose to be more elastic about the accountability of each country. but anyway, the problem is not about the rigidity of the measures. the problem is how each country decided to get the result of balance in equilibrium.
if you think about new taxes or if you think about low-cost of our public system, i know that in italy, we have a huge public system that costs too much. we have to work in this direction to reduce the costs of our public system. we cannot make an increase of taxes. taxes destroy the possibility to grow for our economy. he have to work in this direction. the socialist party in europe and the democrats in italy think that we have to increase taxes. we do not agree. i think that the solution to put a stop in this direction is a good solution for the italian economy.
>> reducing the size of government is something that has not happened in a long while in a substantial fashion might either in italy or some of the other countries. that is the criticism that has been leveled. if there is a snap election, what is your prediction? what will happen? >> i am afraid that there is no solution out of this. first of all, we cannot predict precisely how the italian voters will react to the position that mr. berlusconi decided to adopt. whether he will be a candidate himself or not. on the other hand, i would like to mention some figures that are predicted at the national front level. -- french level. the french people at 50% do believe that the coordinated
european policy would make a strong difference in solving this crisis. only 32% of the french people believe that political party at the european level could make a difference with the left and right bloc debating. >> throughout europe, there is skepticism over how much brussels can do. if there is a snap election right now in italy, how do the main parties fare and how do the antiestablishment parties, like beppe grillo's five-star movement, farfe? >> the most likely outcome of a new election is what we have now. >> it would be the same. >> most likely. there are a few unknowns. we do not know the electoral weight and how much the story will affect berlusconi's
credibility in his own party. there are a few unknowns. the most likely outcome is that there will be a 30-30-30 divide in the senate and the nessus -- and the necessity to have a grand coalition of some sort. i think this is what letta is counting on. the risk is political correctness -- political paralysis in that he survives but he cannot take risks. >> on twitter, italy is stock in a self-referential debate and is unable to release urgently needed reforms. we get a sense of the possible political gridlock. the fears that these antiestablishment rds can feed off of them -- parties can feed
off of them. it is not just italy where antiestablishment parties are gaining ground. after handing himself and to authorities, members rounded up after the fatal stabbing of an anti-fastest -- anti-fascist hip-hop artist. in australia, the freedom party nearly finishing second, just one point behind the conservatives. >> we have never -- we have never had this before. losers form a loser coalition. >> what is your party -- what is your prediction as to the future voting patterns in europe? >> i am very worried about it. i am very pessimistic. we have the news that europe is in the grip of policies and
voters are moving to the right for answers they think are radical and will give them a better option. we see that across the board. in greece, it has become extreme. the reaction of people to this kind of economic policy that we are seeing in europe is also helped by concern about democracy. people feel that the european union has been an imposition of democracy. and basic democratic rights have been infringed. a are going to the right. i do not agree with that. in greece, it is going towards fascism. that is a major problem.
it is europe and its mechanisms that have produced this. things are not looking very good at all. >> valentin kreilinger, your reaction. >> there is rising europe skepticism, that is true. and there are different kinds. there is the far right golden dawn in greece. really far right, really eurosceptic. but there are eurosceptic rds in germany -- parties in germany -- >> closer to those in britain. >> in britain, they are pursuing a right-wing strategy as well. they have gathered votes from all parties and are pursuing a very light euro skepticism. and then we have, in italy, at
the last general election in february, 60% who are actually against the current fiscal policies pursued at the european level. and we have 30% of the electorate voted for parties who want a referendum on the euro. euro skepticism is a very diverse picture. >> it is not one-size-fits-all. >> not at all. 70% pro-eu in the next parliament. one third is a lot. >> traditional parties did lose ground. valentin kreilinger, i want to thank you. i want to thank francesco saraceno. i also want to thank thomas friang. fabrizio bertot for joining us from brussels and costas lapavitsas from london. before we say goodbye, there is
one man i would like to say hello to and that is james. >> good evening. just one word that is making the rounds on italian twitter. that is a phrase uttered by this man, the secretary of the pdl party. the deputy prime minister and one of the ministers berlusconi wants to pull out. is there a rift emerging? he said that if extreme is and continues in the new party launched by berlusconi, that he might have to be a berlusconi- ite differently. this turn of phrase has italians quite amused. the day of the launch of forza italiana on the 19th of june. differently, right?
all sorts of reactions on twitter, ranging from the ridiculous. i am very slim if really. -- differently. berlusconi is innocent differently. one of my favorites is a reference to the captain of the costa concordia. the boat is floating differently . my personal favorite, i am alfano differently. everyone found that turn of phrase a little bit ridiculous, basically saying that he will move away from berlusconi. >> diversity always welcome on the debate. james, i want to thank you. i want to thank our panel and