tv Democracy Now PBS December 12, 2014 12:00pm-1:01pm PST
12/12/14 12/12/14 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] >> from lima, peru this is democracy now! broadcasting from cop20, the united nations climate change conference. >> if we fail, future generations will not and should not forget those who ignore this moment. no matter the reasoning. future generations will judge our effort, not just as a policy failure, but as a massive collective, moral failure of his store consequence. >> as secretary of state john kerry flies into lima to give an impassioned speech about combating climate change, he says nothing about the proposed
keystone xl tar sands pipeline. protesters gathered near kerry's speech to send a message against the pipeline -- at least they , tried to. >> we did not specifically name him. we could not use the names of country, so we could not clout the united states or canada around keystone xl. we were not allowed to name specific projects, for example, so we can't talk about keystone xl pipeline. >> the rules book at the cop. we will look at how the united nations is silencing voices of dissent inside the climate summit. and we will look at the state of the talks as negotiations enter a final day. all that and more coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman.
cia director john brennan has refused to rule out the agency's use of torture under future presidents while defending the officials who devised and carried it out. speaking out for the first time since the release of senate findings this week, brennan refused to label cia methods "torture." in defiant remarks, brennan also rejected the senate's conclusion that the torture methods provided no useful intelligence toward preventing attacks. our reviews indicate the detention and interrogation program produced useful intelligence that helped the united states's work attack lands, capture terrorists, and save lives. but let me be clear. we have not concluded that it was the use of eit's within that program that allowed us to obtain useful information from detainees subjected to them.
the cause and effect relationship between the use of eit's and useful information subject willing provided by the detainee is, in my view, unknowable. >> as brennan spoke, senate intelligence chair dianne feinstein posted point-by-point rebuttals in real time over twitter. on the issue of whether torture could have thwarted attacks, feinstein said -- "no evidence that terror attacks were stopped, terrorists captured, or lives saved." senator feinstein and brennan's differing accounts revived the war of words between the senate and the cia that emerged during the investigation. the cia was accused of spying on senate staffers' computers and obstructing their probe. in his address, brennan also defended the bush administration and cia officials behind the torture program, calling them "patriots" aiming to defend the country in the shadow of the 9/11 attacks. while acknowledging some methods
were "abhorrent," brennan urged the nation to drop scrutiny of the torture program and instead look forward. limited number of cases, agencies officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were b be repeatedhould to by all. we fell short when it came to holding officers campbell for their mistakes. in the light of the fact these techniques were banded seven years ago, fervent hope is we can put aside this debate and move forward to focus on issues that are relevant to our current national security challenges. >> asked whether the cia will ever torture again, brennan refused to offer a guarantee, saying he will "defer to the policymakers in future times." congress has avoided a government shutdown with last-minute passage of a spending bill before thursday's midnight deadline. the $1.1 trillion measure had
come under threat after democrats voiced outrage over last-minute pro-corporate measures. one key provision will repeal a major rule in the dodd-frank financial reform bill that limits risky trades by federally insured banks. speaking ahead of the vote, democratic congressmember maxine waters said undoing critical regulation through a government spending bill must be opposed. >> under the cover of must pass legislation, big bank lobbyists are hoping that congress will allow wall street to once again gamble with taxpayer money by reversing a provision that prohibits banks from using taxpayer insured funds, bank deposits, to engage in risky derivatives trading activity. this provision must be stopped. enough is enough. >> according to the "new york times," the financial giant citigroup authored the provision in question. another amendment will increase
tenfold the amount of money allowed for certain political donations. despite the objections of democrats like maxine waters, the white house urged lawmakers to pass the bill and avoid a shutdown. more than 50 democrats then joined with republicans to approve the bill in a narrow 219 to 206 vote. the measure funds all government agencies through september , except for the department of homeland security, whose allocation expires in february. that will set up a new showdown over immigration, with republicans vowing to hold up additional funding in a challenge to president obama's reprieve for up to five million undocumented immigrants. the nationwide protests over unpunished police killings of unarmed african-americans have spread to the halls of congress. in a coordinated action, dozens of african-american staffers walked out from their desks on thursday in a show of solidarity with the protesters in ferguson, new york city, and cities across the country. the staffers raised their hands in the "hands up, don't shoot" pose and held a prayer service
on the capitol steps. the protests continue with nationwide actions on saturday, including what organizers have dubbed a "millions march" in new york city and a "justice for all" national march against police violence in washington, d.c. the d.c. march will be led by the reverend al sharpton and family members of several slain african-americans -- michael brown, eric garner, akai gurley, tamir rice, and trayvon martin. thousands of people gathered in the occupied west bank on thursday for the funeral of a palestinian official who died when the israeli military attacked a peaceful protest. ziad abu ein was helping plant olive trees near an illegal settlement when an israeli officer grabbed and shoved him. witnesses say ein collapsed to the ground and then died after inhaling large amounts of tear gas. the cause of death is under dispute, with palestinian officials saying he died of his wounds and israeli officials
saying he succumbed to a pre-existing heart condition worsened by stress. palestinian officials have threatened to cut off security cooperation with israel, in which palestinian authority forces help israel police the occupied west bank. police in hong kong have cleared most of the pro-democracy protest camp that took over a key downtown area for over two months. the protests erupted in september after the chinese government rejected demands for free elections. the protesters want an open vote, but china says it will only allow candidates approved by beijing. on thursday, hundreds of protesters voluntarily left their encampment after movement leaders cited the threat of harsh police repression. several activist leaders were arrested. many demonstrators left the protest site with chants vowing to return. a major storm in california and the pacific northwest has caused hurricane-force winds and dumped over 7-inches of rain in the worst-hit areas. the storm has knocked out power to tens of thousands of homes
and canceled several hundred flights. speaking at the u.n. climate summit here in lima, peru, secretary of state john kerry linked the storm to worsening extreme weather under climate change, which he said poses a major threat 22 years after the earth summit in rio. >> this morning, i woke up in washington to the television news of the superstorm rainfall in california and washington state. torrential, record-breaking rain in record-breaking short time. it has become commonplace now, the here of record-breaking climate events. but this is 2014, 22 years later, and we are still on a course leading to tragedy. >> we'll have more after headlines from the u.n. climate summit here in lima, where talks are in their final day. another woman has come forward to accuse the comedian bill cosby of drugging her as part of a pattern of sexual assaults.
writing for "vanity fair," former model beverley johnson says cosby drugged her at his new york city apartment three decades ago. she writes -- "for a long time i thought it was something that only happened to me, and that i was somehow responsible. but the last four weeks have changed everything, as so many women have shared similar stories. i couldn't sit back and watch the other women be vilified and shamed for something i knew was true." more than 20 women have accused cosby of drugging and sexually assaulting them in attacks dating back to the 1960's. bill cosby is facing at least two lawsuits over the allegations as well as an lapd investigation. and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting from cop20, the united nations climate change conference in lima, peru. the talks have entered their final scheduled day as deep
divisions remain between wealthy and developing nations on emissions cuts and how much the world's largest polluters should help poorer nations address climate change. on thursday, u.s. secretary of state john kerry flew into lima and made an impassioned plea for all nations to work for an ambitious u.n. deal next year to fight climate change. former vice president al gore and todd stern attended this beach. .erry said time was running out >> it seems every time i speak at in the event about climate change, someone introducing the, as todd did today, says john kerry is but every major gathering since rio. it's true. that will tie you something, that is kind of troubling. because it was in rio, as far back as 1992, when i heard the "everyry general declare bit of evidence i've seen persuades me that we're on a
course leading to tragedy." that was 1992. this morning, i woke up in washington to the television news of the superstorm rainfall in california and washington state. torrential, record-breaking rain in record-breaking short time. it has become commonplace now, the here of record-breaking climate events. but this is 2014, 22 years later. and we're still on a course leading to tragedy. so this is an issue that is personal for me, just as it is for you. absolutely. at the end of the day, if nations do choose the energy sources of the past over the energy sources of the future, they will actually be missing out on the opportunity to build the kind of economy that will be the economy of the future and it will thrive and be sustainable. coal and oil may be cheap waste
of power in economy today in the near term, but i urge nations around the world, the vast majority of whom are represented here at this conference, look further down the road. i urge you to consider the real, actual, far-reaching cost the come along with what something is the cheaper alternative. it is not cheaper. i urge you to think about the economic impacts related to agriculture and food security and how scientists estimate that the changing climate is going to yield -- is going to reduce the capacity of crops to produce the yields a do today and rice or wheat and make a fall by 2% every single decade. think about what that means for millions of farmers around the world and the impact it will have on food prices on a most every corner of the world, particularly, as each decade we see the world's population rise towards that 9 billion mark.
then factor in how that would also exacerbate the human challenges like hunger and malnutrition. add to that, the other long-term related problems that come from relying on 20th century energy sources and the fact that air pollution, caused by the use of fossil fuel, contributes to the deaths of at least 4.5 million people every year and all of the attendant health care costs that go with it. and for everyone thinking that you can't afford this transition or invest in alternative or renewable energy, do the real matt on the costs. consider the sizable costs associated with rebuilding in the wake of every devastating event. in 2012 alone, extreme weather events caused the united states -- cost the united states $110 billion. when typhoon hit the philippines last year, the cost of responding to the damage exceeded $10 billion. even smaller skill disasters
bear a hefty price tag. in the over call costs of businesses from the severe floods that hit the parts of the united kingdom earlier this year $1.3 billion.ed you start adding up these 100 billions and 10 billion's here in country after country and think of that money has been put subsidizedto transition to an alternative or renewable, cleaner emissions-free, to clean emissions capacity. those are just the cost of damages. think of the cost for health care due to pollution. largest single cause of young children in america being hospitalized during our summer environmentally air induced asthma that those kids suffer. the agricultural environmental degradation is probable. so, my friends, it is time for countries to do some real cost accounting. onlyottom line is, we can
factor in the cost of the media energy need or energy transition. we have to factor in the long-term cost of carbon pollution and factor in the cost of survival itself. and if we do, we will find the cost of pursuing clean energy now is far cheaper than paying for the consequences of climate change later. nicholas stern showed us that in a study in a number of years ago. all ofstill need to get our countries more serious about doing that. works -- >> secretary of state john kerry speaking in lima, peru. he is the highest ranking u.s. official to attend the u.n. climate change conference since president obama took part in the 2009 copenhagen talks. while kerry spoke for 30 minutes, he never addressed an issue on the minds of many -- the keystone xl tar sands pipeline. kerry must make the final recommendation to obama about
whether the $8 billion pipeline should be approved. just before kerry spoke, i had a chance to briefly interview former vice president al gore who won the nobel peace prize for his work on climate change. >> mr. vice president, i am amy goodman for democracy now! your thoughts on the keystone xl? >> i have been opposed to it for a long time. i think it is a terrible idea. in theiries use veins toes when the ones in the arms and legs collapse, -- >> >> have you major recommendations greater president obama? >> of course. >> do you know which way he will go on it? >> no, i don't -- >> go ahead. >> i kind of think you will not approve it. i have thought of that for a while. >> and if he does, what will it mean for the climate? >> it would mean a large new supply very high carbon energy,
of course, so it is a bad idea. >> can ask you a quick question on another issue? >> i'm not doing interviews. the secretaries coming in. >> after the talk where secretaries take kerry spoke about the importance of taking climate change seriously, i put the same question to him as i did to al gore. kerry looked over, but he did not respond. secretary kerry, keystone xl? your view on it? who caught up with a man introduced john kerry, u.s. chief climate negotiator todd stern. mr. stern, keystone xl, your thoughts? >> no thoughts right now. i'm sorry. >> democracy now! has been to the last six climate change talks. stern avoids answering my questions except in prescott says when someone else calls on me and he is forced to respond.
i still put the same question to him as i did to john kerry and vice president al gore. we try to every year get a question and where the most faithful news organization and the united states. thoughts on keystone? >> [indiscernible] >> can you say what you thought of the secretary speech? >> excellent speech. >> but i did find some and who would answer my questions, one of the organizers of this ball protests after kerry's speech, a protest against the keystone pipeline. she explained how difficult organizing that protest was. >> my name is alyssa johnson-kurts. >> right after secretary kerry gave his speech, you had a small protest. can you talk about what your protest was about? >> it was about tar sands, specifically, and calling of the different infrastructure projects that are transporting tar sands around canada and the united states. netas a c-project with the
-- cope project with the canadian youth organization. >> can you talk about what it takes to get a protest approved here at the cop? >> we had to send in a request to the secretary and for any of the actions here. on the request -- >> to who? >> to the secretary. >> to the u.n.? yes. you have to send in any slogans will be using. you're not allowed to call out any specific people, so while kerry is here, we were not allowed to specifically name him or use the names of countries, so we cannot call out the united states or canada around keystone xl. we were not allowed to name specific projects, so we're not allowed to talk about keystone xl pipeline. >> did you give them a picture of the banner they said no to? >> grid issues around getting our banners approved.
we eventually used the banner that said "climate action with and arrow in one direction and tar sands in the other. >> did you submit any others that were denied? >> we try to cement a banner that would have an arrow with keystone xl a one direction and a livable future in the other direction, and they rejected that proposal. >> because you're not allowed to name keystone xl? >> we were not allowed to name keystone xl. >> you're not allowed to name john kerry or the united states? >> we're not allowed to name him or any specific countries. >> what if you did? >> we would risk losing our badges and her potential accreditation of future events. >> do feel the protest was able to convey your concerns about secretary kerry and his involvement in deciding whether
the keystone xl gets approved across the united states? that was youth activist alyssa johnson-kurts of the group sustain us. joining us now here in lima, peru at the u.n. climate change conference is jamie henn, co-founder and communications director of 350.org which helped launch the movement against the keystone xl pipeline. that is quite amazing what alyssa has laid out. they had to send pictures of the banners they're going to use, and they get rejected or not. >> it is amazing, the restrictions placed on activists here the talk. the arnie is, very few is,rictions -- the irony very few restrictions are placed on the fossil fuel industries. there are no such protections here at the u.n. we find it a bit amusing and disturbing that they put so much restrictions on mentioning a project like used on but let companies like chevron come in and talk about dreams they have about carbon capture and
sequestration. >> how does that work and has this been raised with the u.n. secretary? >> it is been raised repeatedly. there's been a lot of back-and-forth on the restrictions placed from the number of badges that people get to come into the talks to things like alyssa was bringing up about restrictions about banners. people are doing a great job making the voices heard outside this process in the streets of lima, which your covering, them back in new york in september, but we need or access and better ways to make sure people's voices are coming in. >> do you think there is been an increasing separation between civil society and what goes on within the cop, as perhaps less work gets done here? i mean, being on the grounds of of the military headquarters, known as a place where people were disappeared and killed here in peru, there is military and police court owning off the areas, very hard for people on the outside to get in, much more so than any other time. >> that's right.
i think it is a real detriment to the process. we've seen civil society be able to push forward at the talks, i think then it would be to the advantage of the u.n. to bring in the voices and 11 people get engaged in this progress -- process. decisions are being made that we're not here to push -- >> talk about what those decisions are and what you see as something that has changed, for example, in the agreement the may soon come out. >> one of the most interesting things happening in the text right now is the discussion about the long-term goal of where this treaty is really headed. in the past, it has just been put in in terms of to further targets are temperature reduction. for the first time, delegates are talking scarcely about phasing out fossil fuels completely by 2050 and going to zero carbon emissions. that type of target that begins to push this process into the realm of reality and begins to get more people potentially engaged to be seeing this process for what it is, which is a showdown with the fossil fuel industry. >> fossil fuel the limitation.
trucks it is striking. i think it is been a real change in the rhetoric and i think it comes from the fights that up and happening outside of it around fossil fueled investment, keystone xl. that is changed the type of discussion underway and it is powerful. i think it sends an important signal not only in the talks, but to investors, banks, to others watching. people are getting a little nervous that may be governments are finally getting serious about regulating the fossil fuel industry, and time to start moving money out of the problem and into real solutions. >> i want to turn to president obama. this was monday night, appearing on on"the colbert report" and talked about the keystone xl pipeline. >> we have to make sure it is not adding to the problem of carbon and climate change. these young people are going to have to live in a world where we are in no temperatures are going up -- already know temperatures are going up and keystone is a potential future murder of that.
we have to examine that and without a consume out of jobs that it will actually create, which are not a lot. essentially it is canadian oil passing through the united states to be sold on the world market. it will not push down gas prices here in the united dates. it is good for canada. it could create a couple thousand jobs in the initial construction of the pipeline, but we have to measure that against whether or not it is going to contribute to an overall arming of the planet that it could be disastrous. presidentou have obama and grabs his strongest statement about the keystone before the decision is announced. jamie henn, talk about the significance of what he said -- on this comedy show. >> as usual, colbert is making news and breaking headlines. i think is been a shift in momentum against keystone xl. i was on a press call and heard "wall street journal" reporting it now seems like the president is going to reject the pipeline, what is our response?
we are try not to read too much in the tea leaves. we need to continue to push the president, but it seems like things may be turning in our favor. >> what is happening in nebraska today? >> today is one of the first day's weather could be a supreme court decision on whether or not the route in nebraska is legal. >> of the pipeline. >> of the pipeline. the governor of the brusque approved the pipeline, but it turns out he doesn't have the authority do that. landowners are challenging him and the legality of the route. decision likely won't come today but it could come any friday between now and expected to come by the end of the year. the decision is made in nebraska, the new president will either have the information he that this route is illegal and can reject the pipeline based on that or if it is approved, will go back to the state department process where we have been for the last two years and we need to continue to push them to really take a closer look at the climate impacts of this project. >> the fossil feel divestment campaign, jamie henn, if you
could talk about how it has grown and how significant this is an do you see this wang in? mike burke of democracy now! just ask ban ki-moon about the divestment movement. at the beginning of a statement, spoke at a very diplomatic way, he talked about its importance. >> i think it is had a huge impact on this process. that was one of the most surprising things for me, seeing how many people are talking about investment and how it is begun to frame the data in a different way. just yesterday, the u.k. energy minister said we should be regulating companies to look at how much money they have in the fossil fuel industry because of the risks not only poses to the planet, but the broader economy. the development movement, the work students are doing on the ground, that pushes beginning to push this process. >> and what is it doing? is to target public institutions and asked them to take their money out of the top 200 also feel companies. this february, we're holding a big investment global day of
action where people will challenge banks, colleges, religious institutions to begin to put their money where their mouths are and take money out of those companies and really began to reinvest it in climate solutions. >> what can we expect to come out of the end of this conference? >> it is going to be probably another all nighter tonight, so we will see what happens. we need strong signals on finance that real money is being put on the table for climate. keeping those long-term goals and phasing out. feel emissions, and have real clarity about what needs to be in a document as we head toward paris next year. >> jamie henn, of 350.org, founder and communications director of the group. his new piece for the huffington post is called, "the climate talks find an enemy at cop20: the fossil fuel industry." we will link to it at democracynow.org. when we come back, a group of union is, labor leaders, are here, deeply concerned about keystone. when we come back, we will talk about keystone at cop.
>> "global warming," -steel pulse. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. from lima,oadcasting peru. the conference of parties in 20 years has been held in the heart of amazon country. on thursday, i spoke to the man who crunched the numbers on keystone xl job creation. he has raised a lot of questions. >> a codirect cornell university's global labor
institute. also here representing trade unions for energy democracy. secretarytried ask kerry keystone xl and he did not answer the question. vice president gore is opposed. i asked todd stern, the chief u.s. climate negotiator, he would not answer the question. you have been involved at high level when it comes to keystone xl and providing the numbers for president obama around it, is that right? >> that is correct, right, the job figures. >> what have you found? >> the jobs debate has been severely distorted by transcanada corporation and the american petroleum institute. they put forward numbers that really cannot stand up to serious scrutiny based on normal research practices and methodologies for the numbers are far, far higher than are actually real. the numbers summit into the state department were far, far
lower. >> did you brief president obama yourself? >> no. we know the president rather report. made reference to the figures. >> because that is the issue that is raised so often that environment lists are killing jobs by killing the keystone xl. explain how you arrive at your numbers and how many jobs would be lost or gained. numbersny respects, the were submitted by transcanada to the state department and we simply interrogated the claims of the multiplier effect, which researchers understand is the jobs in direct and induced jobs that would be created by a certain amount of dollars spent on a project. the numbers you will notice have not gone down with the jobs, even of the project is have completed. the numbers they originally claimed three years ago have not gone down at all, but must have
the pipeline has been constructed. >> why haven't they gone down? >> it is really about the atmospherics around the project. if it is perceived as being jobs lifeline for out of work union members, then that is the message they have to stick to. >> what about the division within the labor movement? even here at the cop, the more conservative unions, the other unions -- where did the union's fall? >> it is three camps, really. there's the afl-cio, which has its hands tied by the building trades position on climate change, which is, don't give away the store to china. there's no point in the u.s. having an aggressive emissions reduction policy because they're so much coal coming on in china. generally, it is holding back the u.s. negotiators from, if
there were so inclined, to move in a more ambitious direction. on the other side of it, unions like the nurses union, transport unions, health care generally, their policy is much more in turn with the social movements around climate justice, the need for a really aggressive approach to emissions reductions. and the need for real job creation in numbers that would really matter to people. >> and who is winning? >> if you asked me three years ago, i was a those on the side of climate and action were winning. i think that has changed dramatically in years. a difficult struggle within the u.s. trade unions. they're under attack. ofve seen the emergence unions beginning to grasp what it means to take on climate change, but also do it in a way that stands for equity, justice, entry sustainability. >> why does climate justice until to domestic workers, nurses, and others? nurses union for
example. they were the first union probably dissent 3000 nurses to relief work best to send 3000 nurses to relief work. they were there when sandy hit new york and north east region. they were there when dust flies all over the working class neighborhoods. so they see the impact of fossil fuels close up. they see it as an extension of advocating for their patients, the same transport workers. they know what it is like to read than fossil fuel particulates. they know what it is like to try to service communities suffering from asthma. their own members are suffering from diesel fumes and other pollutants. against -- to transition and injectable and democratic way over a period of decades is a major struggle within the trade unions, but there's a believe now this can
canone in a way that is, a, address the serious nature of the climate crisis, but do it in unionshat really links with working-class communities. to mystic workers, many of their members, like the health care unions, were not born in the united states. there immigrants from various severely affected by climate change. >> what is the alternative to keystone xl? >> hopefully, there will be a planned to wind out of the tar sands. or 75,000 workers in the tar sands. we don't want to pull the plug on them. we believe there is potential for muscle -- massive scale of, private done under control. they charge high fees for electricity produced by renewable energy in the form of power purchase agreements, that is not the way we want to go. trade use for democracy is a network of unions in the global north and south advocating for these kinds of public control
measures. sort of a real new deal approach that really takes a public goods -- puts public goods in the equation. everybody benefits from emissions reductions, so why can't we all be part of that solution? >> any prediction which way president obama will go on the keystone xl? >> i have to believe he is going to say no. not because i am emotionally attached to it like everyone else about in the president has nothing to gain and every thing to lose if he goes yes on keystone. two cave-in on the enemies of workers in communities all over the world in the form of koch brothers and big oil companies, to me, would be political suicide, not just for obama with -- but with the democratic party as well. >> democracy now! also spoke to bruce hamilton, the president of amalgamated transit union local 1700.
atu is here to express the point of view there is an alternative point of view in the u.s. labor and the point of view that really supports a real [indiscernible] reduces emissions. >> what is your position on keystone xl? >> the a was the first uniontu to oppose the xl pipeline back in 2011. since then, some other unions have joined us, which is very good. the national nurses union, twu, some with the cwa, and a lot of locals another unions have come into the fight against further expansion of dirty oil. >> and why? >> the primary reason is to save humanity on the planet. we also believe labor has a
responsibility to really lead the transition to a low carbon to know carbon economy -- no carbon economy. if we don't, some kind of transition is going be made by big business and it will be very detriment to working people. >> talk about the kinds of workers he represented. >> atu represents most of the transit workers across north america -- but strivers, train operators in transit, bus cleaners and all sorts of people related to transit. >> keystone xl has always been pushed as a provider of jobs. wouldn't that interest you? how did that divided union movement? >> far, far, far more jobs are available and fighting against climate change than there could ever be in expanding dirty fuel. is inggest job killer action on, change. a natural for us
because we represent mass transit workers. without a massive increase in mass transit, we can't possibly reduce emissions to a sustainable level. >> what would look like, that massive infusion of funds to public transition? where does the u.s. stand? not in the top, let me put it. -- publics to be transportation needs to be so available and so attractive as an option that no one would even think about driving a car to work. that is definitely possible. i live in new york city. new york city, it is fairly easy to get around on public transit. i don't own a car and certainly don't need one. but even in new york city, there needs to be a vast increase in what is available, where it is available, to make it so nobody has to walk more than a few blocks to avail themselves of public transit. if that were the case, people would simply not want to drive.
>> the alternative? >> the alternatives to? >> to cars? bus rapid transit, which we see in lima. i don't know if you have noticed all that is available here. it needs improvement, but the infrastructure is there. actual lanes dedicated totally to buses. fares are paid on the platform so buses pull up in multiple doors open, passengers get on very quickly and the bus rolls on, not impeded by any traffic. it is a very quickly developed, knight capital-intensive, sadly not like subways, but of very good way of getting people around. like subways,ot but a very good way of getting people around. >> what countries do you look to as a model? leader inmerica is a bus rapid transit, actually, although they need a lot of improvements in workers
rights. reason why it is necessary for unions to get involved in this battle, it also to make it so the jobs in public transit are decent jobs that provide a decent living for working people. >> i asked secretary kerry's position on the keystone xl and he would not answer. are you concerned about which way the obama administration will go? >> yes, i'm concerned. it would just be a lot of us a lot of climate scientists say, a really would be the end of the game if it was built because it would be a vast expansion of the tar sands that would be brought for export out of the southern united states. apart from all of the dangers involved in firms in kansas and others, there's a huge danger of putting more carbon in the atmosphere. we can't be doing that. >> that is bruce hamilton, the
>> "bandolero," novalima they performed here last night. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting live from lima, peru, at cop 20, the united nations climate conference. where negotiators are hours away or maybe days away from the formal end of the talks, unless they are extended. activists here from around the world plan to carry out a mass die-in this morning in to draw attention to the voices the conference has forgotten. well, for more on what has been happening herend what s to done, wturn to ests we turn to winn byanyimis the executive director of oxfam. she served 11 years in the ugandan parliament and cofounded the 60 member global gender and climate alliance.
dipti bhatnagar is with friends of the earth international, where she is climate justice and energy coordinator. she travels to lima from where she lives in mozambique. welcome both of you to democracy now! talk about the significance of cop20. we are in the amazon, the first hosts thenian country cop, yet what is coming out of cop20? >> we are worried because the clock is ticking and we're coming toward the end of this meeting, but we don't see the breakthrough yet. it is important this meeting sets the stage for paris next year. we need a strong deal which should include a commitment by the developed countries to put money down to support the poor countries to adapt, to be able
to cope with the climate impacts there are ready facing. the question of financing is critical. the second piece of success for us is that there should be an agreement to have a review of the pledges that would be made in paris so that we know whether the commitments meet the science and our fair. that each country is contributing their fair share of keeping the world out of dangerous climate disaster. >> what would you want to say? >> the final text for cop20 has not come out yet. it was still being negotiated. the big picture at this moment is very clear. cop20 lima is doing nothing to prevent the climate catastrophe. we have impacted people throughout the world, millions
that are facing the impacts are ready of climate change and of dirty energy, which is one of the major causes of climate change. we have a situation where we have developed countries undermining the responsibilities, their act.rical responsibly to as she said, their reneging on the finance commitment and their commitment to support adaptation. >> on wednesday, democracy now!'s deena guzder ran into the former u.s. chief climate negotiator jonathan pershing and asked him if developed countries owe a "climate debt" to less developed ones for causing climate change. -- global warming. >> do you think the u.s. should compensate less-developed nations that are struggling with climate change? >> compensation is probably the wrong way to look at it. >> how should we look at it? >> probably more effective to look at what you can do at the problem and i'm not sure compensation is the way to look
at it. that is a punitive way. i would start with, what are your technology options, what are opportunities for these solutions? these financial restitution's for historical legacy of creating the conditions of climate change? >> but is that true? do you think that is true? >> yeah, i think the way developed countries have developed -- >> intentionally -- >> it is not a question of intentionality -- >> it doesn't matter? i don't know commission ask other people iolvein the process. >> that is jonathan pershing, who is here in peru, the former u.s. climate negotiator, together with todd stern. he was questioned by deena guzder. >> i think it is pretty preposterous what he was saying.
there's a similar statement made by secretary of state kerry yesterday. is's not worry about who does whose responsibility it is, let's just all do our part. of course, everybody needs to do there part and fair share, but very clear the u.s. and the eu and other developed countries are not doing their fair share of emissions reductions, finance, etc., to stop the climate catastrophe. >> it is an issue of justice. if the developed countries don't put down the resources that the poor countries need to prepare for climate change, to protect themselves from the real impacts their facing already, then you're going to leave poor people around the world facing hunger, facing increasing
poverty, without being able to cope yet they did not create the crisis of climate change and they don't have the means of solving the problem of climate change on their own. it is an issue of human rights. >> how is uganda affected? >> deeply affected. we're seeing farmers unable to predict the weather, to know when to plant, what to plant. they put seeds in the soil. a flood comes and the seeds rot in the ground. or a drought comes and the seeds dry and the ground and there's no food for seasons. to providen unable for their families because the water is further and further away. the source of energy for cooking at home is not available. we see struggling people hurting even more. so climate change is having a
real impact on the lives of poor people already. whereas, the richer people can protect themselves. it is urgent. marching the day before. 15,000 people in the streets of lima. i was with indigenous women from all over latin america who were saying, we are hurting. we are never to feed our babies. we want solutions now. --ee not enough >> you just came from the rain forest? >> i did. farmers, women and men, who are being pushed off their land by companies that are there [indiscernible] which is a way of responding to climate change, but pushing people off their lands. we see the real impact, the real struggle of poor people, but solutions have to be found here. , you areipti bhatnagar
the climate justice representative of friends of the earth. you live in mozambique. explain the term climate justice. >> the idea of climate justice, ,he current energy system current food production system, is what created the climate crisis. and if we try to solve climate change without taking that into effect, then we don't serve the people who work anyway impacted by the current system. climate justice says we need to think about the developing countries and think about the poorest and most vulnerable people on this planet. what is the impact on them, not just from climate change, but from dirty energy and from the current model of the energy system? >> what was your take away from john kerry speech? many said, that is the old john kerry, impassioned, making a statement about climate change.
what do think is said to the american audience and the global audience? >> i think is good that secretary of state kerry acknowledged the depth of the planetary crisis and i think -- i know there's a difficult situation, political situation, he faces in his own country, but one of the things the u.s. is very deliberate lead to doing is pushing a voluntary nonbinding, non-legally binding system of pledges. >> let's go back to a clip of secretary state john kerry speaking here in lima. >> of course, industrialized countries have to play a major role in reducing emissions, but that doesn't mean that other nations are just free to go off and repeat the mistakes of the past and that they somehow have a free pass to go to the levels that we have been at where we understand the danger. is difficult for developing nations. we understand that.
but we have to remember that today, more than half of global half --s -- more than are coming from developing nations. so it is imperative they act, too. >> that is secretary of state john kerry. let's turn to winnie byanyima. 's personaly kerry commitment is very welcome. the point he is making -- it is important to recognize that for is abilityry, there to reduce carbon emissions. there is the issue of responsibility, how much it has contributed to this crisis. and a question of development. these must be put in balance. so a poor country that has
little responsibility for creating climate change or global warming, for a poor adapty that has a need to to protect its people from the for as that are real, poor country that needs to overcome poverty, the concentration -- retribution has to be measured. for a richer country that has more responsibility, contributed more to change, that has the resources and technology to address the problem and has already influenced, they must put down more resources. >> as we wrap up our climate summit coverage. >> cop 20 is doing nothing to ask. the clinic catastrophe, but people are acting. there will be an action here at 11:00 a.m. talking be a die-in
about justice, energy, food, the real issues people care about. earlier.bout seeds our slogan is "they buried us, but they did not realize we were seeds, so we grow -- >> we have to leave it there, winnie byanyima and dipti bhatnagar. that does it for our show. a special thanks to our whole crew here in lima. our crew in new york. and to the folks at ap who helped make this broadcast possible. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to firstname.lastname@example.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] democracy now!]
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