tv Face the Nation CBS February 28, 2016 9:30am-10:30am CST
tuesday, he may well be unstoppable. i don't think that will happen. >> dickerson: he's not the only one vowing to stop donald trump we'll talk to senator marco rubio. >> i will do whatever it takes. dickerson: hillary clinton thunders through south carolina with a big win. we'll talk to her rival bernie sanders about his future plus brand new cbs battleground tracker numbers. it's all ahead on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. super tuesday where there are primaries or caucuses in 12 states. according to our cbs news battleground tracker things are looking good for the front runsers. in virginia donald trump is at the top of the republican field with 40%. marco rubio follows with 7% and ted cruz is in third at 22. georgia is also showing 40% for trump, ted cruz second at 29%. marco rubio is at 22.
it's ted cruz up by 11 points over donald trump and marco rubio is in third with 19%. john kasich and ben carson are much further behind. we'll have more battleground poll numbers and results from the south carolina democratic primary coming up but right now we want to go to donald trump who joins us from his home in west palm beach. mr. trump i want to start with a tweet from you this morning in which you write, quote, republican establishment has en pushing for light weight senator marco rubio to say anything to hit trump. i signed the pledge, careful. what does that mean? >> well, they're not treating me well. i signed the pledge, i've been very good and straight and honest and honorable not treated me well. look at the way they stacked the audiences in the debate i've won every debate according to every poll. every single online poll but way they stacked the audiences, the way they talk. they have this light weight
terrible things, just personal terrible things. i don't think it's fair the way that the establishment is treating donald trump. i'll be honest with you. i signed the pledge. i will abide by the pledge unless they default. as far as i'm concerned they defaulted. >> dickerson: you wouldn't abide by the pledge because you think they're defaulting. >> i think you understand exactly what's going on you pick up any paper, always talking about how we can overthrow donald trump. i'm representing tremendous -- millions of people. that feel angry and disenfranchise. these are great people. i love them. i'll tell you what we're not being treated right. the republican party not treating me right and they're not treating the people that i represent right. >> dickerson:let me ask you ask you question of taxes, you're being audited. what about release knowledge summary that sometimes what candidates do, show your income,
do that? >> i've already released my financials which are massive, by the way, it's over $ $ billion of net worth that i built with very small starter years ago. i've already done that. that's down and filed in the federal elections office if people want to see it they can. obviously your cohorts have gone through them in great detail. i've been given very good reviews. >> dickerson: what about a summary. >> you don't learn very much. john, you don't learn of much from tax returns when you're under audit you don't give your papers. i've been under audit for so many years, every year i get audited. for i think over ten years maybe even 12 years. i've been audited. i think it's very fair, i think i'm being singled out, it's not a fair situation that the i.r.s. audits me every year. i have friends that are very wealthy, they have never been
why are -- am i audited every single year. until the audit is completed obviously i wouldn't show anything. i'll show it as soon as it's completed i have nothing to hide -- >> dickerson: what about -- everything of real value is in my financial disclosure form. >> dickerson: you said that in interview with cnn after the last debate you were being targeted because the fact i'm a strong christian, what does that mean? >> it could be that. it could be because i'm a believer in the people of the tea party. i have a lot of different likes maybe dislikes. i don't know why. but why is it that every single year i get audited i have friends that are very wealthy they have never been audited. >> dickerson: would you produce the audit in terms of those who are skeptical maybe this is effort to not release your tax returns? >> i don't think i have problem with that. i assume i can give you a letter
but i've been -- i'll let you know how many years. i've been audited for consecutive years, many, many years i think it's unfair. i say to my people how come i'm always audited and friends of mine are never audited. >> dickerson: let me ask you a question that's been raised about foreign workers in florida. the "new york times" said there were people that wanted the job you had said basically only can find farm workers because there aren't americans who want the jobs. the "new york times" said there were people. >> they have to be qualified. it's during the season within you can't get people it's very, very hard to hire people, qualified people. lot of people didn't want the job because it's a three to four month job just during the season, the hot season, the high season. it's very hard to get people because it's just one of those things. everybody is working. and then during the off season it's easy we don't have the people during the off season because the club closes during off season, lot of people don't want part-time job. >> dickerson: you say that
build, come back to america, build their products here, have american work workers. why would those corporations say version of what you're saying they can't find the workers here they got to go other places y. wouldn't they just say what you're saying. >> because those are full time jobs. that kind of thing, talking about full time jobs. lot of the people this we made offers to, when we make offers when they hear it's part-time job, it's four month or five month job i understand this they're not interested. they're american people they're not interested. what you don't talk about is the thousands of people that i do hire. thousands and thousands of people on my payroll over the years that are tens of thousands of people that work moore me. pick up one club where it has high season where very, very hard. it's very hard to get people in palm beach during the season, during the social season. >> dickerson: michael hayden the former director of the national security agency said that if you ordered u.s. forces to kill the
suggested also use waterboarding which you also suggest that they would refuse you. what is your response to that? >> i don't know what he means by refuse. i can only tell you lot of bad things, they're chopping off heads in syria, they're chopping off heads all over the middle east, isis is doing number, plenty of other -- isis is doing it now. all i know is that when they start chopping off heads we have to be very firm, we have to be very strong, we have to be very vigilant and i heard a statement i disagree with the statement that we have to be very strong, can you imagine these people that chop off heads of christians and plenty of other people and they do it routinely and they drown people in big steel metal cages, they drown them. they leave them in for half hour then pull it up and everybody is dead. they hear us talking about waterboarding, give me a bridge we have to get a lot tougher if we're going to win this war. if we're not going to get tougher we're not going to win this war. >> dickerson: thanks for being
again soon. >> thank you very much. dickerson: we caught up with senator ted cruz on the campaign trail in virginia beach. what other states were you on super tuesday? >> the most important day of this entire primary election. it is the most delegates awarded in a single night. i think we are positioned to have a very good night on super tuesday, about 65% of republicans believe that donald trump is not the best candidate to go head to head with hillary clinton. and we are the only campaign that has beaten donald trump and we're the only candidate that can beat donald trump if you look at super tuesday states we're running neck and neck with donald in states all across super tuesday. so it is my hope that all of the republicans who recognize that nominating a candidate who agrees with hillary clinton on host of issues, who has very similar record, is not the path to victory. if we come together, conservatives stand together
>> dickerson: if they don't is he unstoppable? >> there is no doubt that if donald steam rolls through super tuesday, wins everywhere with big marge in that he may well be unstoppable. i don't think that will happen. but i think if you're at home and you don't want donald trump to be the republican nominee then only candidate who can beat donald is our campaign. so i would encourage, even if you like another candidate, stand with us if you don't want donald to be the nominee. if and when we stop him on sunner tuesday, that is how we end upbeating donald and nominating a proven conservative which is what it's going to take. >> dickerson: what did you make of chris christie endorsing donald? >> i don't think that was a big surprise. i think it was a blow to the rubio campaign. but at the end of the day, the washington establishment is going where they're going to go. this is super tuesday is a battle to determine where conservatives go. i think the debate this week was really some powerful moments of
we saw that donald trump substantively has the same issues on issue after issue as hillary clinton. he agreed with hillary clinton on libya. toppling the government in libya that led directly to benghazi. led to handing that country over. he agreed with hillary clinton supporting john kerry who agreed with hillary clinton on being, quote, neutral between israel and the palestinians. i'll tell you as president i'm not going to be neutral. america will stand unapologetically with israel. on domestic policy, donald trump agreed with barack obama on the wall street bail out. the bail out of big bank. i think the government ought to be standing with mainstream, with working men and women. and then you put on top of that the ethical issues. whether it is refusing to release his taxes. and that's a real problem. >> dickerson: why is that a problem? why is it a problem if he doesn't release them?
years, then three years, then maybe five years. if there's a problem his taxes, voters have a right to know because come september, october the general election, fox in the media are going to make a heyday about any problems in his taxes, i think primary voters have right to know and his excuse that he's being audited. that makes it even more important. for him to release his taxes so voters can see if there is -- mitt romney suggested there could be bombshell there. i don't know if there is or not. but donald is hiding them from the voters and i think he owes cannedder to the voters. >> dickerson: he said some pretty bracing things about you still like him. how can that be the case? >> donald is a charming person. he can be fun -- >> dickerson: but he can turn on you. >> just overnight he can turn on you get nasty and personal and vicious. i treat him as an entertainer, i laugh him off. it's like going to the circus seeing the acrobats and dancing
he's willing to say things that are patently false. for example, at the debate this week he backed off of his health care position for 20 years. for 20 years he has agreed with hillary clinton and bernie sanders on socialized medicine saying, obama compare doesn't go far enough. he wants the government to pay for everyone's health care and control it. and he and i had back and forth where i asked him. is it true or false that he said the government should pay for ever one's health care. he said it's false. within minutes we put out video contrasting what he said there with video of him just few months earlier saying exactly the opposite. and what i think the debate this week did, is gave real clarity to the voters. that to beat hillary, we need a consistent conservative, someone who has stood for free market principles, who has stood for constitution and critically who stood for the working men and women of this country.
record on immigration. that he is irony he made the center of his entire campaign immigration given that he faced a $1 million court judgment for being part of a conspiracy to hire illegal aliens, given that just this week, news broke that he is hiring foreign workers at his fancy hotel in florida and he claims, he did interview after the debate where he said, gosh, you can't find americans to do these jobs to be waiters or waitresses or bell hops. what ridiculous nonsense. the "new york times" reported roughly 300 americans applied for those jobs, he only hired 17 instead he brought in foreign workers because they're captive workers, you can pay them less, they can't leave. and i think the working men and women are getting hammered right now, they want someone they can trust to stand with them and part of the reason so many conservatives are uniting behind our campaign i'm the only one that led the battle against am negligence tee, led the battle
working men and women. >> dickerson: the question about borders and your position on workers. hypothetical someone over stayed their visa, president cruz going to send the feds, take him output him on a plane. you said you better believe it. in an interview given similar scenario we don't have system that knocks on doors of every person in america, one case you were not knocking on the doors and -- >> difference is how large. we don't have storm troopers that knock on the door of every american citizen, we don't do that. but when we have evidence that a particular person has committed a crime we send law enforcement to apprehend them. the he is spiff i can question was visa over say. john, right now, current federal law requires a biometric exit-entry system when you come in on visa. obama adadnistration is just ignoring federal law. 40% of illegal immigration not people across the borders i willlily it's people who come
if we have a biometric exit-entry system we know if john dickerson comes in for six months and hasn't left we know on the day after six months, okay, john exceeded his visa. with that exit-entry system we can send law enforcement agents that exist to go get john say, you're here illegally. that is how law enforcement operates. >> dickerson: senator cruz, thanks so much. >> thank you, john. dickerson: we'll be back in one minute with another of the top consteppedders in the republican race, florida senator marco rubio.hing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed?
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i've been an underdog my whole life. we'll pick up a lot of delegates on super tuesday. we're going to move on. here is with is never going to happen in this race. never time republican party rallies around that you have to get out for purposes of rallying around donald trump. donald trump is not a republican. donald trump is not conservative. donald trump is trying to pull off the biggest scam in american political history. basically a con job trying to take over the republican party by telling people he's someone who he is not. we'll do whatever he takes. we'll be in this race as long as it takes. be in as many states to make sure i'm the nominee that donald trump never gets the 12236 delegates which he needs. >> dickerson: what we hear your campaign gotten a lot cappier about donald trump. the for a um of -- i never wanted it to get to this point. by own course the way the media
open their eyes see who donald trump really is. that unfortunately has not happened. the polls and early states indicate he's been able to fool a significant number of people to believing that he is something that he is not. donald trump is a locales con artist, he conned all these people that signed up for trump university now trying to do the same thing to republican voters. he's trying to convince them that somehow he's the guy that is going to stand up to illegal immigration but he hires illegal immigrants. that he's fighting for american workers but he's hiring foreign workers for his totals, go to bring back jobs from china and mexico but in fact he's creating jobs in china and mexico because that's where all of his suits and ties that he sells are made. it's a con job, it's a scam. we're going to unvail it here, going to reveal it i believe more people learn about that the less support he's going to have in the weeks to come. >> dickerson: donald trump is one in three states. you say voters there were conned, what does that say about voters in those states? >> well, i think has lot to do with the media coverage as women
particular, but the media coverage has been cheerleading over the last couple of weeks i'm convinced it's because many in the press want him to be the nominee. one, they think it's going to be good for rating, two, because they have lot of material to work with. if donald trump were to ever become nominee immediately the hounds would descend on him, going to tear him apart, everything he's ever done from not releasing taxes to all of his failed business dealings and hillary clinton is going to have clear shot to the oval office i think there are many out there rooting for that outcome so that he's the nominee you can see it in the coverage he's gotten. this guy has not offered single serious policy proposal which is important if you want to be president of the united states. and again other night at the debate he refused to outline health care plan. they just moved on instead of pressing him on it. he gave a ridiculous answer on the national debt he moved on without pressing him. no other candidate could have gotten away with that. i think there's a weird bias in the media rooting for donald
>> let me ask you about all the thing you've said about donald trump a. big scam, it's a con job how can you possibly retain position that if he's the nominee you'll support him? be the nominee. hypothetical that's never going to happen. donald trump will never have 1,236 delegates which is what he needs. it won't happen. in fact i know i can get those delegates. we're going to continue to work hard to make that happen. all these things we're talking about now it will take time to sink in when voters realize what we're up against here, what he's trying to do i think you're going to see a sea shift here. >> dickerson: what's confusing you say if he were the nominee would destroy the conservative movement. then you're saying he'll never be the nominee. you signed on to the #never trump. you say all these terrible things chris christie said bad things, turn around endorse him
>> well, again, he's not going to be the nominee because we are not going to allow. people will wake up not allow con artist to take offer the party of lincoln and reagan. he's pulling off a world class scam here. he's telling people he's all these things, he's fighting for the little guy. the working class. he has spent his entire business career sticking it to working people. his projects go under. first people that don't get paid are contractors that some of them have gone bankrupt. i'm getting nonstop e-mails and calls from people that have been scammed by donald trump and their stories are heartbreaking. >> dickerson: you say you're going to stop him. are you going to win florida or beat threw? >> absolutely. we're going to win florida. con artist like donald trump. he has the benefit of the fact that he's dominated media coverage. literally dominated media coverage because of the outrageous things he says. that's going to end. there's going to be real fight
do whatever it takes to pre prevent it from being taken over by a conartist i ask people to sign up to our effort at marcorubio.com to make this happen. >> dickerson: you'll do whatever it takes. your campaign manager talked about contested convention, taking it all are the way to the convention. in that case, basically taking nomination away from donald trump. wouldn't that just cause an uproar from all those people who voted for him, who have given him their support? wouldn't that create calamity in the party? >> well, that we beat him out right in the primary process i believe that's what's going to happen in the next few weeks as we move to winner take all states. terrain begins to change. i feel very good. i don't think it's going to get to that. let me just say the rules what are they are in the republican party, you have to have x number of delegates in order to be the nominee. if you don't have those number of delegates then there's a process in place. here is where there is calamity for donald trump to become our nominee. if he's our nominee it could be the end of the republican party.
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credits to help you switch to at&t. >> dickerson: now for the platest in the race for the democratic nomination. last night hillary clinton had a big win in south carolina. she won a whopping 73% of the vote compared to 26% of bernie sanders. and democratic race in our super tuesday battleground tracker hillary clinton is up over bernie sanders by 20 points in virginia. she leads 59 to 39. in texas clinton has 61% support from democratic primary voters sanders has 37%.
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>> dickerson: welcome back to fakes the nation. vermont senator bernie sanders joins us from rochester, minnesota. senator, it was disappointing loss in south carolina last night. coming up there's georgia, virginia, texas. when analysts look at that map they say there's not a plausible path for you to the nomination, what is your response? >> well, my response that i'm in minnesota, i think we're going to win here in minnesota and win in colorado.
we're going to do well in massachusetts and going to win in vermont and got number of states are coming up that we're going to do extremely well, possibly winning including california and new york state. i think we do have a path to victory i won't tell that you we didn't get beaten and beaten very badly yesterday in south carolina. i congratulate secretary clinton on her victory, but, john, i think that's as bad as it's going to get. >> dickerson: when you look at the progress that you made which surpasses all analysts who looked at your campaign from the beginning, even given progress you've made, is there enough time left, you mentioned some places where you think you've done well, but isn't time kind of running out? >> no, i don't think so. i think you got tuesday we'll have over 800 delegates bein selected. i think we're going to win a very good share of those delegates. major states coming up and i think the important point is
country are resonating to our message. and the message is that super pacs and corrupt campaign finance system are destroying american democracy. we're proud that we received four million individual contributions more than any candidate in american history at this point. people understand that the economy is ripped. going to the people on top, that is why we are doing well. i tell you something even in south carolina as badly as we did, we did very badly. we won the votes of people 29 years of age or younger. the future of the democratic party, the future of this country is involving young people in the political process, getting them to stand up for their rights, dealing with student debt which i got to tell you is questioning people all over this country. making public colleges and universities tuition free, those
out, demanding the wealthy and large corp operations start paying their fair share of taxes. this is what younger people, working class people. that is the future of the democratic party. >> dickerson: in order to create the movement you've been suggesting that you want you're going to need to attract african american voters and you're economic justice message didn't seem to hit home in south carolina. and in other places. isn't that a fatal flaw? >> no question, to be very clear. we did really, really badly with older african american voters. we got decimated. on the other hand if you look at the younger people, african american younger people, and whites we did much better. so, again, i think our message, the clinton campaign was very strong, remember this is their fourth campaign in south carolina. two for bill clinton, two for hillary clinton.
well. i congratulate her. we came into that state like 7 or 8% in the polls it was tough road for us to hoe. i want to thank all of our supporters, the members of the south carolina state legislature who stuck with us. we are confident in the future. >> dickerson: our polls show that one bright spot for you is that big majority think that you are more honest and trustworthy than hillary clinton. what does it say to you, though, that voters may believe that and yet are voting for hillary clinton? >> well, i think people cast their votes for a number of reasons. i think if you look at your polls you'll probably find that many people think that our views are closer to what they believe the future of america should be. our views are closer on economic issues. lot of those polls come down to demographics, the age, to how much money you are making.
started this campaign, john, 3% in the polls. in the also two weeks national polls that actually had us in the lead or reasonably close to secretary clinton. if you were with me yesterday in texas you see 10,000 people out in austin, 8,000 people out in dallas. we had good turn out here last night. i believe we have lot of momentum. sometimes the media -- this state had election at the end of the campaign. dozens of more states to go we're feeling good. >> dickerson: all right, senator bernie sanders we'll be back with more numbers from our cbs news battleground tracker.
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>> dickerson: we turn now to cbs news director of elections anthonyal van toe. donald trump is up everywhere in texas what have we learned new about his durability. >> there's some signs here that clearly starting as push back against the establishment. against the republican party and politics as usual he's growing something much more. specifically, voters in georgia, in virginia and in texas all think that donald trump has the best chance now to win the general election. and also think that he has the most optimistic message of the remaining candidates. this isn't just about for them voting against something, against politics as usual. it's a signal that they're voting for something. that is in politics very
that's a campaign that will have legs. >> dickerson: tuesday we've got bunch of states voting, ted cruz will do well in texas. what can we learn about what's happening with cruz in texas whether it translates to any other state outside of his home turf. >> it's not translating right now. in texas, voters who know him say he has the most experience and say that he can best shake up politics. but donald trump owns those issues everywhere else. and even more than that, ted cruz you heard in your interview saying he's the conservative. well, he's winning that argument. they are overwhelmingly as most conservative but it's not enough. because he loses some of the voters who think he's most conservative to trump and also voters are placing more importance on, not just shaking up politics, but also fixing the economy and donald trump owns those issues. on the political monopoly board
most valuable space. that shake up politics in these states. >> dickerson: important again just to be clear because suggests if cruz can't win outside of his home territory not going to make inroads in other places. >> may pick up delegates elsewhere and hold serve in his home state but right now he's trailing every place else. >> dickerson: all the candidates say, remaining candidates i want it to come down to one on one race than i'll have shot against donald trump. in the numbers do you see any evidence that if other candidates were to fall away that enough voters would go to the remaining person who is alternative to trump that would actually change the state of things? >> no. donald trump would get, when we ask people, if he doesn't get the nomination who would you support. donald trump would get enough of rubio voters, enough of cruz's voters, not majority but enough, that added to his current standing would keep him as the front runner. consolidated race doesn't
standing and i think that's important. figured donald trump up around 40 he doesn't need that much to then get to majority. we've always talked about how he has a ceiling, he still does. there's lot of people would not make him second choice but his ceiling isn't quite as low as we once thought. >> dickerson: over to the democratic races it over? >> not yet. but super tuesday looks pretty good for hillary clinton. there's couple of thing going on. one is we talked about the demographics of the southern states, you saw the big support among african american voters that's consistent across all super tuesday states that we survey. people still say that bernie sanders is the honest candidate and is the principled candidate but similarity here almost to the republican side, too. these are metrics that we thought going in would be winning ones, they're not enough.
important, but where voters are going now for senator clinton's campaign that they're seeing her as qualified and seeing her as experienced, that's obviously her campaign message. they're voting on that. she's got big leads over sanders on those metrics and that's what is driving lot of this. >> dickerson: great, anthony, thanks so much. we'll be back in a moment with our political panel to figure all this out. announcer: you taught him how to hit a baseball. how to hit a receiver. the strike zone. the net. you taught him how to hit the upper corner.
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and yes, your children will have breakfast. every 8 minutes the red cross responds to a disaster and makes this promise. help us keep it. >> dickerson: we're back with more political 'al cyst. peggy noonan is column any for the "wall street journal." a senior political commentator for cnn. jamelle boy we covers politics for late also cbs news political analyst. ruth marcus is columnist for the "washington post." and ben domenech is the editor of "the federalist." peggy is donald trump unstoppable? >> well, we're going to find out. the indices are all in his direction, aren't they? i'm interested in his power, if that is the word, is such that
in a way a one-man wrecking crew in the area of deport. and one proceeds politically on the stump. mr. rubio is attempting as you know to give trump a fight in trump's own style. i'm not sure how that works. but certainly the indices are good. >> the 11th commandment is shredded, thou shall not attack a republican. rubio is trying trump's tactics is that effective? >> might have been effective had he be doing it six months ago. been really hitting trump on this point that trump seems to be in this for himself. as it stands, at this stage not only do i not think it's effective it might be count are productive. what it sounds like rubio saying to people that you were fooled
for me. >> i agree. i think there's another way which it can be less than effective. you asked rubio if it was too little too late. i think there's a little bit of too much too late which is, he is just getting down in the buck with trump. when you get down in the muck you get up with muck on you. fine to go after trump university, and call him a con man about what that sauce. fine to take him on on lack of policy knowledge. start talking about whether he wet his pants, i think -- that's a little too -- >> knock off trump by being a knock of of trump. people want instability they got one voice. >> i think the only way that you can beat trump is recognizing that he is a one-man wrecking machine fueled by his personality you have to attack him on those bases. none of these ideological positioning issues matter for
you can say, one time you said this now you said this that doesn't get to his people. just out alphaing trump. >> i think you're right the positioning is useless. but talking to trump voters, i think the things that they attach to that they like about trump that he seems like he gets them. that he is like them in some fundamental way. i think the avenue for real estate tack have to be convincing that that is not true. the trump university thing is a start. but the con man stuff works against that. >> the issue on his can man thing. i heard you interview and ask very plainly would you support him essentially and he said that he dance around the question. he's going to destroy the republican party. i don't think he's going to be the nominee. he never said he wouldn't support him. and so he sounds very much like
language that aggravates those voters. >> dickerson: the con man in this political season are the politicians. that's the setting for con man we learned from the voters. >> you know, i think the way for -- i agree with what jamelle says, to look at -- for rubio to say to trump supporters, hey, he's conned you, he's a con man that's what you do. my goodness, that's not the way to bring them in. how about something more interesting. how about you come forward say, trump supporters, i absolutely know what you think about the republican party and the republican establishment and how disappointed you are. guess what, i'm going to tell you what you're right about. what they are disappointed about. republican party is easy to tell you the flaws of the democratic party. take trump supporters seriously by conceding what is true about --
trying to do that all along. your first question about whether trump is unstoppable at this point. i think the candidates, other candidates have essentially conceded that he is more or less unstoppable in the primaries at the place to stop him if he is to be stopped is at the convention itself. you see, rubio campaign and cruz campaign, the kasich campaign all positioning themselves and i even -- did i some canvassing among republican establishments in addition to the various stages of resignation you heard crazy ideas like, might not be too late for mitt romney to file. >> oh, my, goodness. >> all talking about convention strategies and not primary. >> dickerson: ben, we're getting to the high fantasy theories now. >> what we're witnessing is political realignment. we're moving from traditional understanding of left-right politics that we've had for a long time to something that
the thing to understand here is that donald trump and bernie sanders they're not the disease. they're not symptom of the disease they are beta test of cure for the perspective of the people. the those of us who looked sort of the established order of the political fray looks like chaos. to the people it looks like democracy. i think that is something that really is moving us to a new reality where the parties are going to have to retrofit themselves and adapt to this. >> i think that was very smart. dickerson: plus one for miss noonan. one quick question about this running against trump. if you are the democrats you're watching this, if you are in position that you used to be in are you gleeful, do you think donald trump is going to be a great candidate to run against? >> four months ago they might have been gleeful about running against donald trump. i think democrats war bit more
a sense of anger and anxiety out there that could go to some core of the democratic face, working class voters. working class who have been drifting away. what it can't do i don't think so is repay the breach with minority voters, particularly hispanic voters. i think that, that wall he's built between himself and hispanic voters cannot be -- that's going to be very high. that's a huge problem for him. in the general election with women, i think he will galvanize the democratic face. i still think he is -- has a tough road to ho to, win the presidency. but i think he's defied expectations so much that people are a little wary. >> a lot of the anger is not -- i don't think it's universal. if you look at polls of african americans, latinos, people i
they are pretty op toe miss tuck about the country's perspective. it's among slice of older white americans, younger might white americans feel betrayed about the money on college and being in bad place that the anger is. i'm not sure how trump general electorate where you have lot of americans, black, latino, asian american, who do not fundamentally feel the anger. there are white americans who are with them on that. how this plays to me -- >> i will say this, people say there's enthusiasm gap. you see it in the turn out. that is true. i think the antidote to the enthusiasm gap for hillary clinton should she be the nominee is donald trump perhaps the debate. that will l galvanize who may not be enthused about her as they were about barack obama. >> dickerson: we saw her trying
>> you saw her trying to do two things at once last night which i thought she did just fine. which is to still be attentive to the standard vote and arguments that they want to hear from her and so there was that about big banks. she turned her attention to her vision of making america great again which is making america whole again. i want to say one thing about donald trump the excellent question that you asked. i can't stay away about taxes. because his argument is, we don't learn anything from tax returns. and that is just not true. here is what we learn. that we don't learn from other filings. your income. what your effective tax rate s. how much you use loopholes and deductions and tax shelters. how much you've given to charity if you want to give it out who those charities are for. i understand tax lawyers don't want people under audit to give out their stuff. audits end, you can do two
give the summaries. case closed. >> dickerson: let me add a question to you, say whatever you want, but the question is this. when you talk about that beta testing that the public may be doing does that mean that there is a different standard or lower threshold in terms of fact. donald trump has been fact checked fairly well. he says things, he's called on it, he has said about the voters they don't care about policy position or these small things because he's speaking to a larger truth. do you think that's true or that there could be some thing that could knock him back? >> i think there is something that happens, phenomenon that happens around conspiracy theory, if you believe in it that every critique that have theory is simply more proof that the conspiracy exists. that is something that goes on in the person of trump. to his point about his taxes, few years ago trump was being roasted by comedy central, always have rules about things
donald trump's rule, only thing you couldn't joke about was suggestion that he has less money that he claimed to. i think that is quite a good deal how you can get under his skin. >> dickerson: back to the democratic race we saw hillary clinton make this pivot, ruth pound out that there seems to be general agreement that donald trump really helps her elevate to her best self. do you think that's right? does it make it easier to run against donald trump for hillary clinton than marco rubio if you were republican. >> two thoughts. one is that bernie sanders has whatever happens in his campaign he has very much succeeded in pushing mrs. clinton to the left in terms of policy. that's a big thing, whatever happens to him we'll see how that goes. mrs. clinton and trump, trump is sort of known as outrageous figure who gets away with a great deal.
month after month is also seen as a person who herself is not truth. we could wind up with these two wholely unusual figures where most of the people, these r he's outrageous, she's untrustworthy. i wonder next to brilliant democratic thinker, how does mrs. clinton turns around long untrustworthy. >> that's a hard thing to -- you can't stand up say i'm trustworthy. you have to ask -- not that much impact. >> but that is the question. >> it is. the question is on what standards are people voting and what's important to them do they at the end of the day feel that she is the strongest advocate for them on those issues. in the case of trump, whether he's a plausible commander in
because they absolutely believe that she is. >> to go back to a point you made earlier, trump is not only the trump earlier age rail against central park five. he was sued by the federal government for housing discrimination. trump is a guy who activates a lot of years of black and latino voters. >> dickerson: thanks to all of you. we'll be right back in a moment. my staff could use your help staying in touch with customers. at&t can help you stay connected. am i seeing double? no ma'am. our at&t 'buy one get one free' makes it easier for your staff to send appointment reminders to your customers... ...and share promotions on social media? you know it! now i'm seeing dollar signs. you should probably get your eyes checked. good one babe. optometry humor. right now get up to $650 in
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i'm sharyl attkisson. welcome to "full measure." today we begin with a question of human testing and the dilemma posed by the need to do research for the greater good and the right of human test subjects to know exactly what they're signing up for. our incredible story begins in 2004 with a federal study of 1300 extremely premature infants. some parents say had no idea they agreed to a risky experiment that could injure or kill their babies. little dreshan cook came into the world at 1 lb., 11 oz., fighting for his life. his mother sharrissa was barely six months pregnant when he was born. sharrissa cook: i remember the night that i went into labor, i was a hysterical wreck. i was afraid, i was scared, i was in shock. sharyl: how big was he, do you remember? sharrissa: he would fit in your hand. sharyl: shortly after his birth at the university of alabama at birmingham, sharrissa agreed to enroll dreshan in a study called