tv Meet the Press NBC April 23, 2018 2:00am-3:01am PDT
this sunday, russia and the growing pressure on president trump. republicans win the release of james comey's memos. >> this is a big, big beginning to the end of what has been a witch-hunt. >> but the memos reinforce comey's version of events. >> it is certainly some evidence of obstruction of justice. >> and they reveal president trump's obsession with disproving the steele dossier. >> he'd bring it up repeatedly. >> plus, could michael cohen be pressured into helping the mueller investigation? >> he has has been on the certained about cohen flipping on him.
>> my guests are marc short and susan collins of maine. also, the democrats lawsuit. the dnc sues the trump campaign for allegedly conspiring to sabotage hillary clinton's bid. i'll talk to the chairman of the democratic national committee, on the perez. and saying good-bye, to former first lady barbara bush. >> people admired her and loved her so. >> joining me for insight are andrea mitchell. the christian broadcasting network's david brody. amy walter, national editor of the cook political report and democratic pollster cornell belcher. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. perhaps we shouldn't be
surprised that it feels as if sometimes we're living in a tabloid presidency given the president was raised in a new york tabloid culture so we imagine our own tabloid headlines this week. the president charges that comey broke the law. he claims that the president told him vladimir putin said quote, we have some of the most beautiful hookers in the world. rudy giuliani is back. this time joining the president's legal team. a porn actress causes a spectacle at a court hearing including michael cohen. it's revealed in that open courtroom that one of cohen's three clients is sean hannity from fox news. there's open debate if cohen will flip and testify to avoid a possible jail sentence and now the democratic national committee sues the trump campaign, alleging they conspired to help trump get elected. it's deadly serious business, and the country is deeply
divided and the president appears increasing in peril. >> there was no collusion with russia. >> president trump is lashing out tweeting james comey illegally leaked classified documents to the press in order to generate a special counsel. therefore, the special special counsel was established on an illegal act. a president under siege, increasingly agitated as the squeeze is put on his long term personal lawyer michael cohen whose office, home and hotel room were raided by the fbi last week. >> mr. president, can michael cohen flip? >> cohen told "vanity fair" in september i'm the guy who would take a bullet for the president. >> i would do anything to protect mr. trump. >> but now the legal advisers are saying that cohen may cooperate with federal prosecutors if faced with criminal charges. >> he has to be concerned about two possibilities, number one, cohen flipping on him. and not only singing but composing and making up stories.
and second, files that are seized. >> adding to mr. trump's concerns the justice department pressed by house republicans released 15 pages of memos from the former fbi director and an intimate look at the relationship between mr. trump and comey in the months leading up to his firing. the memos document the president's efforts to get the fbi to drop the criminal case against fired national security adviser michael flynn. >> it's certainly some evidence of obstruction of justice. >> and they detail the obsession with disproving the steele dossier, particularly an unsubstantiated claim that the russians had tapes with hookers. >> my sense is he's based on the personal piece. >> according do the memos it was mr. trump who brought it up in the meetings on january 6, january 27 and february 8th and said that the hookers thing is nonsense, but that putin had
told him we have some of the most beautiful hookers in the world. many of mr. trump's allies claim that the comey memos vindicate him. >> this is a big, big beginning to the end of what has been a witch-hunt from pretty much day one. >> but after a week long media blitz, that at times veered into the petty and sensational -- >> you referenced trump's possible self-tanning, the size of his hands. >> the detailed memos ended up adding credibility to mr. comey's account. as one republican critic worries about the president's stepped up campaign on law enforcement. >> tearing down the justice department or the fbi is not a good thing for our nation. >> joining me is the chief congressional negotiator marc short. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you for having me back again. >> all right. we have a ton of stuff to get. i'll start with the russia probe simply because over the last 48 hours half of the tweets have simply been on russia and comey
and then sporadic ones on a whole other number of issues that we'll get into though. but his focus this weekend in particular on the russia probe it seems to be as almost as if it's consuming him. why is that? >> chuck, i think he's responding to a lot of the coverage that mainstream media is put on this. but i think the administration remains focused on doing the things that we promised. i think you see that the economy had unemployment at 4.1% the lowest in 17 years. you see 5 million americans have received either a bonus or a wage increase since the tax plan passed. deregulation continues. we're continuing to make progress in putting the conservative judges on the courts so the administration stays focused on the business. >> does it hurt your ability to tell those stories when the president spends his time focused on russia? >> i just did. i mean, no, i don't think it hurt our ability. we are making the case as thousand the tax plan is helping americans and how deregulation is helping the economy and how we have a booming economy with 3% gdp.
so i think the american people are feeling it around appreciating it. here's one tweet on friday night. james comey illegally leaked classified documents to the press in order to generate a special counsel? therefore the special council was established based on the illegal act. what does that mean? >> i remember there was a time when it was opposed that there was no check and balance on them. we have seen special counsels that have abused their roles, both democrats and republicans. republicans fell in love with the special counsel when a whitewater investigation turned into the investigation about a 21-year-old intern having sexual relations with the president in the oval office is. special counsel have challenges that go wide ranging and this administration has cooperated, provided thousands of documents. taxpayers spent millions on this investigation. and to date, we continue to cooperate without evidence of collusion. so yes, i think the president expresses a lot of frustration
with where this investigation is. >> does he believe the scope has been fair so far? >> i think we have frustrations and this the scope has gone well beyond what was intended to be investigations into the meddling in the election. i think the house and the senate have had their own investigations and the house have completed theirs and anxious for the senate to complete theirs. >> jeff sessions has said if rosenstein is fired he'll resign. >> i have no information. >> do you believe that republicans on capitol hill would be supportive in the president fired mr. rosenstein or mr. sessions? >> you know, chuck, i think that i have been on your show, i'm grateful, we have the same conversation about when's the president going to fire one of the guys. >> no, he himself brings it up. like we don't -- we don't imagine it. >> okay, when is he going to fire rosenstein or mueller, we have the same conversation. as far as i know the president
has no intention of firing these individuals. >> right. but it's always as far as i know, the president -- he never says definitively. why not? it's not going to happen, this investigation is going to run its course, period, end of story. i'll -- >> you know how far off the investigation is going to veer, he has no intention of firing them. we have the same conversation again and again. the president says i have no intention of firing them, but the media every single da day, every single week when is the president going to fire them? we have no evidence of collusion. >> why was it so important for the president to have the comey memos rehe'sed? sgling this is pushed by the house republicans and i think they were anxious to show that comey himself saying the president said to him if there's evidence of russian interference i want you to get to the bottom of it. i think that is countered to the
narrative in the media that the president is trying to obstruct justice or the investigation. it shows that he was advising comey to get to the bottom of this. >> no, in fact i concur. it seemed like he was saying investigate the dossier. would you go as far as say -- agreeing that that's what the memos indicate? >> perhaps. i can't say what comey was thinking in his own words but perhaps that's fair. >> i want to move to north korea and i want to put up what ari fleischer he writes this. call me a cynic, but based on history they'll suspend today and again tomorrow. this is how they behave. what has the united states gotten from north korea? he's done temporary everything but he's not made a pledge on denuclearization this last time. he hasn't released the hostages yet. have we -- we have given him the
meeting. that in itself is a huge give. what have we gotten in return? >> i would say that what, one, an agreement to stop testing which is something that north korea has not done before. we have cautious optimism, chuck. you heard the president say many times we're going to keep up maximum pressure. we're not going to stop that until they denuclearize. he said i can walk away from the table, but chuck, more important reasons why with need a secretary of state confirmed sooner rather than later. these are important to the american people. >> but denuclearization, what does that mean to the president and do you agree on what that word means? >> i think they have to sit down and get to that point but from our perspective, it means no longer having nuclear weapons that can be used in warfare against any of our allies. >> all right, another topic here, mitch mcconnell was asked
about the recision bill which means -- it's simply pulling back some of the spending that you guys agreed to in that bill that i know the president wasn't happy with. here's what mitch mcconnell said about it. >> you can't make an agreement one month and say, okay, we don't mean it and come back the next month and say, oh, we didn't mean our agreement. >> you were in the room, you agreed to the negotiations. i mean, are you guys -- why should democrats ever negotiate with you again? >> sure. several things. one we would ask the senate to look at the pack an that gets sent up. did you know between president ford and president clinton there are over 1,200 recisions submitted to congress. >> why did mcconnell said you don't want to do it? >> he hasn't seen the package. i think you what you will see us putting forward are dollars not being utilized and second, we had a negotiation and a top line agreement what we should spend on military and how we should get the first funding to build the wall in over ten years and
nobody saw the text. the president said that. nobody saw the text of the bill within 24 hours because the process in congress is broken. the last time congress finished an appropriations on time was 22 years ago. you can keep government open or shut it down. so it's a switch that the president has to face. if he got it on time there wouldn't be recisions. >> does scott pruitt have confidence in the president? the person he was renting a room from -- a lobbyist he was renting a room from did have some something before the epa did have an official meeting with him. that's not very drain the swampy. >> that's fare, but scott pruitt is doing competent job. >> what would it take for him to lose confidence? >> that's a hypothetical.
he's doing a great job at the epa. we're happy to have him. there's an important person still standing between the bill and the senate floor. mitch mcconnell. >> this is a piece of legislation that neat necessary in my judgment. i'm the one who decides what we take to the floor. that's my responsibility. we won't be having this on the floor of the senate. >> it's important to consider but it does not governor what happens if consideration was a standard for approving a bill in committee or not. we wouldn't be probably moving any bills out of this committee. >> republican senator susan collins of maine joins me now. welcome back to the show. >> thank you, chuck. >> i'm going to ask about that very question, mcconnell said i
decide what goes on the floor, it's not happening. where are on this floor? >> i believe it's important to have a debate on the bill in order to send a clear message to the president that congress does not support his taking any action with regard to mr. mueller's investigation. now, i don't think there's any chance in the world that the president is going to sign the bill. and there are some legitimate constitutional issues that have been raised. but i think that message is an important one. >> well, you and i know we can attach stuff to must signed pieces of legislation. president obama got to pass bills that he didn't want pass and you could do that. >> we could but i think the president might be told the entire bill that it's attached to and also that it would be struck down. but the message is an important one. >> that's why you want this debate. you think having this public
debate, what about mitch mcconnell's pledge not to bring it to the call? >> it's his call, but i hope he might reconsider after the judiciary committee reports the bill. >> when i saw that i think the house decided to adjourn a day early, it feels as if washington is almost paralyzed right now by the mueller probe. and i know that -- or at least it's a pall that makes everything hit -- everybody is hitting the pause button. can't seem to focus on a lot of other issues. is it consuming washington? the mueller probe. >> well, there's certainly a lot of interest in it and in some ways i think people are following the daily developments, but we are getting work done in other areas. i'm optimistic that this year we may finally return to a regular appropriations process. we just passed the sex trafficking bill. >> by the way, you brought up -- what do you make of this decision to potentially repeal some spending, a recisions bill
that you heard talked about? you cut a deal with the democrats and with everybody and what kind of deal makers if you pull the rug? >> i would advise the president to focus on the coming years -- and not relitigate. >> you won't support this? >> no. >> doesn't that send a message that this isn't going anywhere? >> well this is what's an agreement that all the parties were in the room, both chambers and the administration agreed to. i don't think anyone should renege on it. we should focus going forward on the appropriation bills before us. >> i want to ask you about your role in the senate intelligence committee. michael cohen, he has made one appearance before the intel committee in closed session. what's your sense of michael cohen's connection to this russia probe? >> that's a very difficult
question to answer. there's been one interview of michael cohen. it has not been released to the public. i'm not at liberty to say what he said. but let me just say that i don't see him as being a central figure in this. the fact that the special counsel referred the allegations against mr. cohen back to the justice department and was referred to the u.s. attorney suggests to me that it's not intimately connected to the russian probe. >> do you feel as if special counsel robert mueller has expanded his probe beyond the scope of what he was assigned or do you feel like he's staying within the parameters? >> i believe he's staying within the parameters. and the proof of that is when he came across the allegations against mr. cohen. he did refer them back to the justice department and they're now being handled by a u.s. attorney in the southern
district of new york. he didn't keep those. >> james comey's book tour, what do you make of james comey and what do you make of the -- what's the lesson now you're taking way from perhaps -- what advice would you give a future fbi director by watching comey and the book tour and how he's handled this? >> if i were advising a future fbi director i would say, follow the department's protocols and guide lines which unfortunately james comey did not do in the hillary clinton investigation and he did not do when he leaked fbi work documents to a friend of his knowing they would go to the press. and so that would be my first advice. the second would be don't write a book in the middle of an investigation. >> do you think this is potentially disruptive to the mueller probe? >> that's what worries me. i cannot imagine why an fbi director would seek to essentially cash in on a book when the investigation is very much alive.
he should have waited to do his memoir. >> the senate confirmation process on everything seems to be more and more difficult all the time. let me ask you about mike pompeo. you voted to vote him as cia director. any reason you wouldn't vote for him for secretary of state? >> i would vote to confirm him. >> any concerns with him? >> i worked chosely with him as -- closely with him as a member of the intelligence committee. i don't agree with every position he has taken but i believe he has an extensive knowledge of world affairs. >> gina haskell, dianne feinstein came out against her. have you made a decision? >> i have not. i want to wait until we had the meetings. i had a lengthy meeting with her last week. i want to know her role in the destruction of the videotapes which had been a major concern
of mine. >> of potential torture. >> exactly of detainees. we still have a lot of questions to ask of her. >> before i let you go can you share with us -- i know you attended a memorial service for barbara bush. who is a long time -- a part-time resident of your hometown state of maine. tell us about the service. >> it was a heart warming tribute to barbara bush. it included beautiful liturgy. wonderful tributes to her. lots of grandchildren. and representatives from the first families, so going back to lyndon baines johnson's family. that was -- and to president kennedy's family as well. and that was heart warming as well. to see people putting away partisanship and coming together to honor a truly wonderful woman who had a huge influence on this country and my state and i'm
very grateful that i was able to be there. >> it felt like america said good-bye to its grandma. >> exactly. >> susan collins, senator from maine, thank you for coming on. much appreciated. when we come back, if the president and his businesses have done nothing wrong, why is there so much talk about michael cohen flipping? the panel will talk about that and about the return of a trump ally to the president's their experience is coveted. their leadership is instinctive. they're experts in things you haven't heard of - researchers of technologies that one day, you will. some call them the best of the best. some call them veterans. we call them our team. retail. under pressure like never before. and it's connected technology
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no one thought much of itm at all.l people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small at all. energy lives here. welcome back. david brody is here. andrea mitchell and democratic pollster cornell belcher. all right. i have to start with the president, russia and the larger atmosphere we're in right now. amy, it feels as if all of washington -- he's consumed by
it. for obvious reasons, but is washington almost paralyzed now? >> yeah, it does feel that way. although let's be really clear i think. the moment that we saw the speaker of the house say that he was retiring, it was to me anned a mission that nothing is going -- an admission that nothing is going to get done. we're done doing anything pent for focus on the midterm elections. that has been really -- and i think that mcconnell is saying the same thing. so some of it is about russia, but a lot is the environment is so bad. we're not going to get anything done in here. let's go out and at least try to make our case on the campaign trail. >> except the president keeps bringing attention back to russia. >> he's not helping. >> a point i made before with short. >> exactly. james comey has been donald trump's best friend this week. i don't think there's any question about it. look, he says he doesn't leak and then he leaks. and he calls the president
morally unfit and oh, by the way he's under investigation himself. he wants justice and he's going out on a book tour during an active investigation. i mean, this to a degree is comey's comedy of errors and it goes to all the tweets that everybody laughs at, witch-hunt, that donald trump talks about. here it is, in the red world of trump's base it's deep state gone off the rails and we haven't gotten to andrew mccabe yet who had a bit of a lack of candor. >> i think susan collins is the best tell on this when she said that he should not have written the book in the middle of the investigation and should not have her words cashed in. >> rough language, yeah. >> she is -- she is so down the middle on this. and that is a real indicator to me. i disagree on the quote leaks because i think he had every right to write memos to self and they were not classified at the
time, they were not leaks. he could share his, he could share them given the fact he had not yet been fired. so that i disagree with but that's the narrative that certainly is out there. and i think that by getting personal by not writing a legalistic book, by speaking about hands and hair and other affects it's too novelistic. >> here is i think the problem with the comey thing for the president that's larger. the quinnipiac poll, 63% disapproving of the president's handling of the russia problem and the comey thing doubles down on that. what i found striking how focussed the president was on personal. both republicans and democrats were saying russia is aggressive and they're attacking on us. he was focused on his own self-interest. i think for middle america that's a problem. >> right. >> i do want to bring up michael cohen because the president he was really animated about that michael cohen story. he got really upset with sam nunberg's quotes but not roger stone who said this about
michael cohen. donald goes out of his way to treat him like garbage. the president pushed back really hard in a series of tweets, amy. >> yeah. >> going out of their way to destroy michael cohen and me and his relationship with me in the hope that he will flip. i don't see michael doing that. referring to flipping. boy is he nervous. >> it's not about his business, but my business. if he sings, to get out of those problems he's going to make stuff up. you have heard a number of other folks say that too. well, you know, he may -- cohen may feel really pressured to say stuff to get out of this. but it's clear we've moved far away from russia and that's the question i want to understand is what are voters going to think when what was ostensibly started as russian interference turns into learning more about the president's personal business
behavior? what are voters -- are they going to say, well, we kind of -- i think that's out of bounds or are they going to -- >> that's precisely why mueller as senator collins said that's why it was referred to manhattan to the state prosecutor and that's -- you know, to the new york case. that's why he -- she has said it's not gone beyond. we don't know where it's gone but it's not gone beyond the original brief. >> we don't know that though. >> amy brings up a good point and i want you to touch on this. mueller needs to produce what the connection is probably. if he doesn't it may lead people to believe, wait a minute this looks like they're just trying to get him. >> right now -- we say that, but right now when you look at public opinion on this, they think there's a there on that. we may never get to where it holds up to collusion in ocourt but for people, common sense, something is going on there it's not right. >> and then i would say there -- it doesn't seem like they're getting there. that's the problem.
real quick on michael cohen. i have known him for seven years and pretty well, actually. let me be clear i don't see him flipping at all. and this whole roger stone comment, look, donald trump has an up and down relationship with everybody. >> that is a fact. i can attest to it myself. >> you're in garbage one day, pent house the next day. >> i feel like the bigger issue is that the president -- if washington isn't completely gridlocked which i think it is, the president is completely consumed by this. during times that we have had the -- you know, the chemical attacks in syria and this -- in fact the nuclear -- >> with north korea. >> he keeps getting back to this and keeps focusing on it and this is what comey memorialized in the memo. he was not asking about the russian attack on the electoral system. he was asking about him and michael flynn and the hookers, the hookers in moscow. >> a year from now what do you
think we'll be talking about -- cohen or north korea? what was more substantive? >> i think two years from now. >> i think the people will say they got more money in their paychecks. >> they're not feeling that yet. >> the polling shows you know it's the economy, it's immigration. it's not this. >> this is a conversation we'll touch on later. sort of the democrats' focus. is it on russia or is it on the economy. very quickly, north korea. there seems to be a split even in the trump administration. the president is gung ho, his advisers are like grabbing the rein, aren't they? >> most are saying that kim jong-un has played this so smartly. he has a meeting on friday with the south koreans and he's pitching himself as the great negotiator and the conciliator, the base in the north was not liked by china, they'll get rid of that. they're popping up elsewhere underground or wherever. we have bad intelligence on it. we didn't know how many weapons they already have. he's not giving up anything that's real.
he hasn't tested in months and months. this so-called freeze on testing is what was taking place. >> we shall see. the president never has a bad personal one-on-one meeting, what does that mean for kim jong-un. democrats accused the republicans of an act of previously unimaginable treachery. tom perez will be here. as we go to break, jeb bush on first lady barbara bush. >> mom got us through difficult times with consistent take it to the bank unconditional, but tough love. she called her style the benevolent dictatorship, but honestly, it wasn't always benevolent. mom, we look forward to being with you and robin and all of god's children. we love you.
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for stelara®. welcome back. the 2016 presidential campaign never ends, does it? it won't. well, 2050 we'll be arguing about it but on friday the democratic committee filed a lawsuit against the donald trump campaign and wikileaks saying they alleged in a conspiracy to sabotage hillary clinton and help him become president. joining me is the chair of the dnc tom perez. >> all right a pleasure to be here. >> let me start with this, why this lawsuit right now? the democrats are quick to say let the mueller probe run the
course. and this to me is a lawsuit -- you're making a claim that mueller hasn't made yet. why not wait for the mueller probe to end before you file your lawsuit? >> sure. well, there are three basic reasons. number one, you'd have to file claims in a timely manner. under the statute of limitations. i don't know when director mueller's investigation will end and we need him to do a good, thorough job. >> when was this going to expire, how close to the deadline with you? >> again, i don't know when director mueller is going to file his complaint. whatever action he takes. >> you couldn't have filed a lawsuit if you waited a couple weeks? >> well, again, but we don't know when director mueller is going to act. again, i don't want to ask him when he'll act. secondly, we did our homework. a year ago people said file a lawsuit then and i didn't do so because i believe in doing the homework. we have seen a mountain of evidence of collusion between the campaign and the russians to basically affect our democracy.
and so we did our homework and we brought our civil case. then finally, i'm worried about the midterm elections because they did this with impunity. you know, general mcmaster said that we haven't -- we failed to impose sufficient costs on russia. well, we know why i think they have failed to impose sufficient costs on russia for this dramatic and reckless and unprecedented hack. because this administration is compromised. i want to make sure we send a very clear signal. >> i'm curious of who you chose to include in the lawsuit and who you didn't. you have donald trump jr., jared kushner, roger stone, you don't have michael flynn? i'm curious, why is he not included. no steve]@qb bannon, no corey lewandowski or kellyanne conway. what was the decision made?
>> we brought the case against the people who we feel there's sufficient evidence to move forward in the civil case. that does preclude us from moving to amend the case as we discover your evidence. >> you don't think there's enough evidence on michael flynn? >> again, i'm a big believer in making sure i have confidence in every aspect of my case. and in the watergate case that was brought by larry o'brien, former chair of the dnc that was amended over time. i'm confident we will file an amended complaint over time. >> did hillary clinton push you to do this? >> you have to ask her -- >> you don't know if she's supportive of the move or not? >> i have not consulted hillary clinton to ask her permission to file a complaint. the buck stops with tom perez and we filed this complaint because our democracy is at risk. this was an assault on our democracy and we have to protect that. >> i spoke with a legal expert on my show on friday who said he believes under federal law that your claims if it does come to trial will have to be decided by a judge, not a jury.
you won't get a jury trial because of the statute that you're using. are you concerned if you don't get a jury trial? >> i'm confident we'll get a jury trial and we have had plenty of legal experts look at this. >> you don't believe this -- >> i don't agree with that at all. >> let me ask you a few different reactions to this. first, let me put up what donald trump's campaign manager for 2020, brad parse kale said. this is a bogus russian collusion claim claim filed by a desperate, dysfunctional and irrelevant committee. are you using the lawsuit to raise money? >> no. i'm laughing, chuck, because those are the precise quotes we heard from the nixon campaign. we're exposing the truth and we're deterring future behavior. we have elections coming up. they tried to interfere, they interfered in 2016. they did it with impunity and
they're trying to do it again. we have got to deter it. this is an attack on our democracy. we can fight for good health care, we can fight for good jobs and we can fight to preserve our democracy. in fact, we must do that. >> all right. let me ask you a question that apparently came up on a conference call that you had with some state party leaders. and this was from slate. it said i just mentioned this to a county -- this is referring to somebody when don't know who it was on the call, but a state party official, i just mention this to a county chair and her response was how can we spend all that money? can you address that, the financial burden that's on us? i will ask you how much money will this cost the dnc? >> we can't afford not to do this and when you look ahead and what was done before and what they're trying to do again, our democracy is at stake. it's hard to win elections when you have interference in elections. we have been winning elections. we know how to walk and chew gum
and we have boots on the ground in arizona, we have a great candidate. she's an undeniable underdog. we are fighting there. we just won in wisconsin. >> how much money is this lawsuit going to take up this year? millions? >> i don't know the amount of money it will take, but i'll tell you it's hard to put a price tag on preserving democracy. you know what, that's why i concluded it would be irresponsible not to do this. >> jackie spear, claire mccaskill, they called it a silly distraction, and jackie spear has seen all of this said, it's ill conceived, not in the interest of the american people. what would you tell them? >> i love the two democrats, they're great people. we're working to help re-elect them and i disagree with them preserving our democracy is priceless. when you have elections that have been attempted -- you see attempted interference in the past. they're going to do it again. by the way, i would love to
introduce them to some of my colleagues on the dnc. at the end of this, they were trying to bring about chaos, chuck. and they did. we had people on my team at the dnc who got death threats. and you know what? when you try to do that to our team, yeah, i'm going to punch back. i'm punching back not only for my colleagues. i'm punching back for democracy. that's what we believe in as democrats. elections should be fair. i understand people may agree or disagree. but you know what? we're fighting for them. >> okay. tom perez, chair of the dnc. thank you for sharing your views. >> always a pleasure. when we come back, why (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything so we know how to cover almost anything. even "close claws." (driver) so, we took your shortcut, which was a bad idea. [cougar growling] (passenger) what are you doing? (driver) i can't believe that worked. i dropped the keys.
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you're excited too, aren't you? never too soon to start having a little fun with our electoral college maps with the country's demographics undergoing significant shifts how will it look different this 2016? thanks to the report on the electoral future we have some answers based on a few scenarios. now, the country is growing more diverse, so by the time the 2020 election rolls around white voters are projected to make up a smaller share of eligible voters than they did in 2016. it's a trend that we have seen for decades and while african-americans, hispanic and asians will make up a larger share. how will the changes play out in a few different scenarios? as a reminder here's what the 2016 map looked like. donald trump flipped six states obama won including three in the supposed big midwestern blue wall. pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. so what happens if democrats are able to recreate the
african-american turnout that they saw in the 2012 election? well, we are more black voters in 2020, they would take back wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania and guess what, with a 2020 turnout they would get georgia a state they haven't won since 1992. along with a few other states that trump carried in 2016. but what if the african-american vote stays the same and republicans continue to grow their advantage among whites without a college degree while democrats grow their -- theirs among whites with a college degree? well, republicans would see a scenario much like 2016. they'd hang on to all of those blue wall states plus they'd even flip new hampshire. democrats would win the popular vote but the republicans would likely take the electoral college by a wide margin.
309-229. what if everything stays the same except voters who went with a third party candidate come home to the party they typically vote with? guess what, demes would take back pennsylvania and michigan and maine. oh, yeah, we'd have a 269-269 tie. yeah yeah. laugh it up. you think this is what us political prognosticators dream of. we do. the bottom line, our swing states are going to change. democrats are starting to gain a foothold in the sunbelt and georgia and arizona are coming into the battle ground and republicans are going when you say you need
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quickly. i want to start with the dnc lawsuit. cornell belcher, is that good politics for 2018? i'm a cynic here, this looks like a stunt. >> i think there are things bigger than politics at play. look, the dnc was attacked. people hacked them. we had lives destroyed. you had, you know, an attack by a foreign adversary on the dnc. they have a right to want to hold someone unaccountable. i put politics aside, this is bigger than politics. >> would it have been more effective had it been the individuals who were impacted? those are the victims. the dnc as a whole makes it look like more political. >> by the way, i think our election was impacted by this hacking quite frankly so i think it's bigger than politics. >> this is too wide. 66 pages. i mean, they have named so many different people, 12 apostles, seven dwarves everything is in there. on collusion and russia inside this document, in this lawsuit they talk about how the trump
administration has or they were concerned that the trump administration has policies that would support the kremlin. but the last time i checked didn't we just bomb syria? one of russia's allies, didn't we expel some diplomats? the point is that there doesn't seem to be any there there at this point. >> fair enough there. let me ask about rudy giuliani, amy. he's back. you dropped the mike there. well, is he at that point, we all live in the point. rudy giuliani. president's legal team. what's interesting about it is that a lot of people are bringing back the fact that rudy giuliani seemed to know that quote comey 2, the reopening of the investigation was coming before the rest of us did. if that is indeed confirmed that leaks were going to him, can he remain the president's lawyer? >> this seems more about the president wants a security
blanket, he knows rudy giuliani he's comfortable around him. he'll tell him what he likes to hear. he may go on tv and i think it makes it harder for rudy giuliani to be a front person because he'll get asked that same question you asked me, over and over again. it seems to me he's the behind the scenes person, that he can hold on to rather than the real voice. >> but he's a counterpuncher, you know? he can go on another network and not be asked those difficult questions. and just keep expounding what the president -- >> which one is that? >> but it's about judgment, right? i think it shows incredibly poor judgment. he lies about hillary clinton not showing up at ground zero, 9/11 and the leaks went to, right? his judgment is poor. i mean, this is a cabal of corruption and lies at this point. i don't think it's helpful at all. >> it's relationship. he knows mueller.
>> if rudy giuliani is seen as a recipient of fbi leaks does that undermine things? >> i think it could be a big p.r. problem and they have to watch out. >> cabal, corruption. >> all right. let's end on a note that seemed to bring the entire country together, even for a brief minute. first of all i want to put up this photo that was just put on twitter by the office of george h.w. bush. it's all the current living presidential administrations here. you have the clintons, the obamas, melania trump. laura bush. george w. bush. andrea, you were there. as i said to susan collins it felt like america was burying its grandma. >> it was. nobody is going to question that the george bush campaign in '88 wasn't a tough willie horton campaign. they played politics hard but barbara bush and the way that both bushes evolved and embraced
the clintons and that authentic relationship after that crushing defeat in '92 to the bushes, and what jeb said in his eulogy and they were beautiful, the church service were beautiful. jeb said about her kindness, her generosity, lack of, you know -- lack of meanness. her spirit. it was such an implicit rebuke frankly to the trump era. >> can i put up a moment here, i want to show barbara bush holding an aids baby in march of 1989. >> right. >> and amy walter, this was such an important moment. people forget 1989, this was before magic johnson was diagnosed. there was this perception that oh, my god, if you just touch an aids patient you too might get aids and barbara bush the -- >> what better image for a mother to be holding a child? at its core. i want to get back to what andrea said which is fascinating. i think she represents and that funeral represented the central
paradox we have in our political time which is we want that -- a return to that civility and the decency, but not a return to political dynasties. >> about that aids -- that image, the reagan white house was so late to come to grips with aids and really resisted that and so barbara bush broke through. >> huge moment. thank you, guys. before i go, a quick programming note. a special investigative edition of "dateline" headed up by my pal savannah guthrie. she interviews the national team coordinators from the gymnastics, the belas and my ka llama roney. that's tonight at 7:00. 6:00 eastern. that's all for today. thanks for watching. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> you can see m
ryan king got out of his truck armed with an ar-15 rifle and started shooting. >> urgent manhunt, police in an all-out search for the mass shooter who opened fire at a waffle house in tennessee as the public is warned to be on the lookout. high stakes summit, the president muddies the water for his summit with the north korean dictator. travel nightmare. dozens of flights delayed, passengers fuming. plus, the viral photo that's injecting civ