tv 60 Minutes CBS September 9, 2018 7:00pm-7:59pm PDT
captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. >> you're saying you were sexually abused... >> yes. absolutely. >> ...by the national team doctor... >> yes. >> ...while you were out there representing your country. >> yes. >> she's a three-time gold medalist and captain of the last two u.s. women's gymnastics teams. aly raisman is one of the most accomplished olympians of our time. and, as you're about to hear, she's not done working for her sport, and for other young athletes. >> why are we looking at "why didn't the girls speak up?" why not look at "what about the culture?" what did u.s.a. gymnastics do, and larry nassar do, to manipulate these girls so much that they are so afraid to speak up? ( ticking ) >> they're some of the most athletic horses in the world,
worth large sums of money, and incredibly, they're clones, grown from cells taken from one of the best horses ever. and they belong to this man, the number one polo player in the world. as far as you are thinking, they're exactly the same in health, longevity. >> si. >> ability to play the game, all of it. >> similar. similar. the good thing about it, they are machines, all of them. >> "machines"-- that's polo talk for horses that never quit. but how do they perform in competition? tonight, you'll find out. ( ticking ) >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm scott pelley. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm jon lapook. >> i'm bill whitaker. those stories, tonight, on "60 minutes." ( ticking )
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but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. ( ticking ) >> whitaker: now, dr. jon lapook on assignment for "60 minutes." >> lapook: aly raisman is one of the most accomplished american
gymnasts of all time. she's won six olympic medals, three of them gold, and was captain of the u.s. teams that dominated the last two summer games: in london in 2012, and rio in 2016. doing a backflip on a balance beam takes a certain type of courage. last year, raisman displayed courage of another kind, when she spoke with us for the first time about a deeply personal and painful part of her life. it was a stunning development for u.s.a. gymnastics, the national governing body for her sport. raisman said she was sexually abused while competing on the u.s. national team. her story, and those of other women, set off an extraordinary chain of events that led to the resignations of the most powerful people in her sport, including just this past week, the current president of u.s.a. gymnastics, kerry perry. but it all began with raisman and hundreds of other athletes speaking out about abuse, that
raisman says was difficult for her to acknowledge. >> aly raisman: i was in denial. i was like, "i don't thi-- i d-- i don't even know what to think." it-- you don't want to let yourself believe but, you know, i am-- i am-- i am a victim of-- of sexual abuse. like, it's really not an easy thing to let yourself believe that. >> lapook: you're saying you were sexually abused... >> aly raisman: yes. absolutely. >> lapook: ...by the national team doctor... >> aly raisman: yes. >> lapook: ...while you were out there representing your country? >> aly raisman: yes. >> lapook: few athletes have represented their country with as much distinction as aly raisman. her floor routines at the last two olympics dazzled audiences f the most iconic moments of the summer games. the doctor she says abused her, larry nassar, worked with the u.s. women's national team and athletes at michigan state university for more than two decades. raisman says nassar first treated her over eight years ago, when she was 15 years old.
>> aly raisman: i was just really innocent. i didn't really know. you know, you don't think that of someone, you know, so i just, i trusted him. >> lapook: you thought it was medical treatment. >> aly raisman: i didn't know anything differently. we were told he is the best doctor-- he's the united states olympic doctor, and the u.s.a. gymnastics doctor, and we were very lucky we were able to see him. >> lapook: nassar is now in prison. he pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography, and to sexually assaulting underage girls, most of them athletes who say his treatment for hip and back pain involved putting an ungloved hand inside the vagina. >> jessica howard: the girls would say, "yeah, he touches you funny." >> lapook: the first top gymnasts to speak out about nassar appeared on "60 minutes" in february 2017, describing what he did to them more than a decade before aly raisman joined the national team. over 400 women have alleged similar abuse. last year, nassar and his lawyers declined to comment for this story.
raisman, now 24, talks about her experiences in a book called "fierce." it's the story of a girl who dreamed of going to the olympics, and how she managed to get there. raisman says she will not discuss the graphic details of what nassar did to her, but she does provide new insight into a scandal that goes to the highest level of her sport. she told us, a lot of people have asked her why nassar's accusers didn't speak up sooner. >> aly raisman: why are we looking at "why didn't the girls speak up?" why not look at "what about the culture?" what did u.s.a. gymnastics do, and larry nassar do, to manipulate these girls so much, that they are so afraid to speak up? >> lapook: you're angry. >> aly raisman: i am angry. i'm really upset because, it's been-- i care a lot, you know, when i see these young girls that come up to me, and they ask for pictures or autographs, whatever it is. i just, i can't-- evt every me e them smiling, i just think-- i just want to create change so
that they never, ever have to go through this. >> lapook: about 165,000 athletes and 3,400 gyms are members of u.s.a. gymnastics. raisman is calling for major changes in personnel, training, and education to keep athletes safe. >> all right, aly! >> lapook: aly raisman first joined u.s.a. gymnastics when she was in elementary school. here she is competing when she was nine. as she got older, she sacrificed family vacations, parties and boyfriends, in favor of grueling workouts-- four to seven hours a day, at a gym in suburban boston run by her trusted coach, mihai brestyan, who she credits for much of her success. coming up in gymnastics, did you think of yourself as naturally very talented? >> aly raisman: no. it's funny because, mihai will say i'm the most uncoordinated olympian in the whole world. >> lapook: is it true that you're afraid of heights? >> aly raisman: yes. i'm very afraid of heights. ( laughs ) >> lapook: how is that possible? you're flying through the air!
>> aly raisman: i don't know. you know, it doesn't scare me on floor, but it scares me on bars. >> lapook: her hard work and dedication landed her a spot on the u.s. team for the london olympics in 2012. during the qualifying round in london, this video of her parents, lynn and rick raisman, went viral. >> lynn raisman: let's go, let's go, catch it! >> lapook: at the london olympics, you became perhaps the most famous cheering section in history. >> lynn and rick raisman: just the hop! stick it, please! stick it! yeah! >> rick raisman: i just think we got caught up in the moment. the amount of pressure and, you know, that she was under at that time, it's just, not easy for us to watch. >> lapook: in the first key test in london, the team finals, aly's performance on the floor clinched gold for the u.s.-- >> announcer: raisman finishes the job. team u.s.a. has got team gold. >> lapook: --their first gold
ever on foreign soil. it was a picture-postcard moment, that only told part of the story. one of the women standing next to raisman, her teammate, mckayla maroney, has said that nassar sexually abused her before the team's victory. in a twitter post, maroney wrote that nassar's abuse, "started when i was 13 years old, and it didn't end until i left the sport." raisman says she and other athletes did not realize at the time that nassar gained their trust through a predatory technique designed to build an emotional bond with the athletes. it's called "grooming." >> aly raisman: he would always bring me, you know, desserts, or gifts. he would buy me little things. so i really thought he was a nice person. i really thought he was looking out for me. that's why i want to do this interview, that's why i want to talk about it. i want people to know, just because someone is nice to youas saying they're the best person, it does not make it okay for them to ever make you uncomfortable.
ever. >> lapook: u.s.a. gymnastics has a long-standing policy that adults should "avoid being alone with a minor." despite that policy, raisman says she was alone with dr. nassar. he treated her and other athletes in their hotel rooms during competitions abroad. all those years, you were out there representing the united states of america. did our country's sports system look out for you the way it should have? >> aly raisman: no. i think-- nobody ever educated me on, "make sure you're not alone with an adult." you know, "make sure he's not making you uncomfortable." i didn't know the signs. i didn't know what sexual abuse really was. and i think that needs to be communicated to all of these et, no matter the age. >> lapook: after helping her team win gold at the london olympics, aly raisman had a crisis of confidence in the next competition, the individual all- around. she finished fourth. by the time she got to her last
chance for individual gold, the flr exerse final, she was so nervous she considered not doing one of her more difficult moves. but then your coach said something to you. >> aly raisman: he said, "you worked too hard to not be olympic champion because you're a little afraid." >> she took coach mihai's advice, and won gold. >> aly raisman: it felt like i was, like, floating. it felt like it was effortless. and i've never felt like that before. but it was, like, the best feeling in the world. ( crowd roaring ) i learned a valuable lesson that day. in the all-arounfil, was nervous. i doubted myself, and i made a mistake. in the floor final, i knew i was going to hit the best routine of my life, and i did. tenay.d roaring ) ♪ ♪ she competed on "dancing with the stars," got involved in business ventures, and struck endorsement deals with reebok and other companies.
but it wasn't enough. she wanted to compete in a second olympics-- something no american gymnast had done in 16 years. >> lapook: did you think that some people had written you off? >> aly raisman: yes, absolutely. i remember when i first said i was coming back, some other coaches would just say, "i think it's going to be really hard for you. i don't think you can do it." >> lapook: that's not the thing to say to you. >> aly raisman: yes, yeah-- >> lapook: "i don't think you can do it." right? >> aly raisman: yes. but there were so many days where i just thought, "should i stop? should i? this is just crazy. this is so hard." >> lapook: it got even harder in the summer of 2015, a year before the rio games, when an investigator hired by u.s.a. gymnastics paid raisman a visit. a coach had raised concerns about dr. nassar's treatment off guard when the investigator asked her about it. >> aly raisman: and i said, you know, "well, he-- his touching makes me uncomfortable, but he's so nice to me. and i-- i don't think he does it on purpose, because, you know, i think he cares about me." >> lapook: so it was only after the investigator left that you
began to put the pieces together. >> aly raisman: yeah. i mean, i think it's important for people to know, too, i'm still trying to put the pieces together today. you know, it impacts you for the rest of your life. >> lapook: after the nassar scandal broke, u.s.a. gymnastics president steve penny resigned. his replacement was kerry perry, who stepped down this past week. in a statement last year, u.s.a. gymnastics told us it had adopted a "safe sport policy" that requires "mandatory reporting" of suspicions of sexual abuse, and sets standards to "prohibit grooming behavior" and "prevent inappropriate interaction" between athlete.aay that any athlete has been harmed," the statement said. "we want to work with aly and all interested athletes to keep athletes safe." but last year, the raismans told us the changes hadn't gone far enough. >> lynn raisman: with the exception of steve penny, the same people are in place. so i don't really have tremendous hopes that a lot of
those policies will be enforced. >> lapook: a lot of people are asking, where were the parents? >> lynn raisman: we were there. but if she's not knowing that it's wrong-- never in a million years did i ever even think to say, "hey, when you see the team doctor, is there someone with you?" >> lapook: if you could hit the rewind button, is there anything you would have done differently? >> lynn raisman: i think the most important thing, if anyone takes anything away from this interview is, sit down with your kids and explain to them that predators aren't just strangers. they can be highly educated. they can be very well-respected in the community. it could be a family member, it could be a family friend. so, you know, that's really the, i mean, if i could go back in time, i would do that. >> lapook: aly raisman's experiences with dr. nassar haunted her, but did not stop her from pulling off one of the most memorable performances of the olympic games in rio. in the all-around, she won silver. >> aly raisman: i finally
competed in the all-around final without any major error. i finally competed for myself. and i finally believed in myself. >> announcer: a return to the olympics has been worth it. >> aly raisman: that was just such a good feeling. it was really empowering for me. >> lapook: after she returned from rio, she says she spoke with f.b.i. agents who had opened an investigation of larry nassar. last summer, raisman and her teammates from rio were inducted into the u.s.a. gymnastics hall of fame. >> aly raisman: we must remember that protecting athletes comes first, and doing right by athletes is always the priority. i love our sport so much, and i want the best for it. >> lapook: some of the most powerful people in the sport were there, but raisman says it seemed that many of them were giving her the cold shoulder. >> aly raisman: there was a table of a lot of people that are very high up in u.s.a. gymnastics, that were in the room. and-- they didn't come over. you know, my-- my teammates and
i were all sitting at the table, and they did not come over to say hi to us or to congratulate us. >> lapook: after your speech, or-- ? >> aly raisman: before, at all. the-- the whole time. all we've done is-- is worked really hard. we love the sport. and-- we were treated like, you know, "we don't want anything to do with you girls." >> lapook: are you concerned that being so outspoken could jeopardize your odds of making the next olympics? >> aly raisman: you know, i think that's a very valid point. but i think that this, speaking out, and creating positive change so that athletes are safe, is more important than any-- olympic medal you could ever win. >> lapook: since we first broadcast this story, aly raisman has emerged as a leader in the fight against sexual abuse, and has not been training for the tokyo olympics in 2020. at a court hearing in michigan in january, raisman was one of more than 150 women who confronted larry nassar. >> aly raisman: imagine feeling like you have no power and no voice. well, you know what, larry? i have both power and voice, and
i am only beginning to just use them. >> lapook: nassar was sentenced to spend the rest of his life in prison. since then, the entire board of u.s.a. gymnastics was forced to resign. the president of michigan state university stepped down, and the university agreed to a half a billion dollar settlement with nassar's accusers. in washington, a new law was passed, requiring amateur sports organizations to report allegations of sexual abuse to law enforcement. theardssu,ismao spoke out about larry nassar received a standing ovation as they were recognized for their courage. >> aly raisman: to all the survivors out there, don't let anyone rewrite your story. your truth does matter. you matter. and you are not alone. >> how to talk to children about
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>> stahl: you don't expect to hear that some of the most cutting-edge biotechnology is now part of the elite game of polo, the ancient sport of kings, but on a trip to argentina last december, we went to a big polo match, and discovered that several of the champion horses on the field were clones. ( cheers ) it's a big day in buenos aires. the final match in this year's world cup-slash-super bowl of polo, called the argentine open,
with the usual pageantry-- the tango included. ♪ ♪ in polo, the horses, called ponies, are just as important as their riders. the two teams are la dolfina in white, and ellerstina in black. each team has four players, who ride as many as a dozen horses during matches. all of the players today have reached the highest ranking in the sport, a ten-goal handicap. the player generating the most interest is the man in the blue and white helmet, adolfo cambiaso. he's led his team to victory for the last five years. at 42, he's the tom brady of polo. >> adolfo cambiaso: i love the sport that i do. i love polo. i love horses. and so i try to be the best. >> stahl: you are number one in the world in your sport. that's stunning, isn't it?
>> cambiaso: it's strange. when they say it to you, you don't feel like it, but-- >> stahl: how long have you had this title? how many years? >> cambiaso: for 22 years. >> stahl: you've been the best in the world for 22 years? >> cambiaso: that's what they say. ( laughs ) >> stahl: at age 25, adolfo decided to create his own polo team, called la dolfina, and a breeding business from scratch. today, he has nearly 1,000 horses, that are fed a special diet of plants and grasses grown on his massive farms. >> cambiaso: if they have a little pain somewhere, i dig a swimming pool for them just to swim. >> stahl: a swimming pool for the horses, where they do laps and stretch out their sore muscles. and they like it? >> cambiaso: they love it. >> stahl: they do? they like to-- >> cambiaso: they love it. they jump in. it's amazing. >> stahl: his most prized horse for a long time was named aiken cura, but at the argentine open
12 years ago, aiken cura's leg was broken, and adolfo was devastated. >> cambiaso: more than anything, i say, "save this horse." >> stahl: he was your favorite? >> cambiaso: yes. >> stahl: but the horse could not be saved. before they put him down, adolfo made a fateful decision. he asked his veterinarian to save some of the horse's skin cells. he thought that one day, he could bring aiken cura back to life through cloning. >> cambiaso: i was really sad, and i say cloning should work-- >> stahl: how did that come into your head? >> cambiaso: i don't know. i decided to keep some cells from him, just in case, years later, cloning is normal. >> stahl: he remembered dolly the sheep, the first cloned mammal. since then, scientists have cloned cows, pigs, goats, and in 2003, the first horse. biologist adrian mutto, one of the first scientists to clone in
argentina, showed us the process: he starts with an egg extracted minutes earlier from a mare. >> adrian mutto: you can see here, this is an egg. and with that needle, we eliminate all d.n.a. of each egg. >> stahl: next, he replaces it with the d.n.a. of the horse they want to clone. >> mutto: the next step is introduce again into the, into the egg, the needle. this is the d.n.a. into the egg. >> stahl: you did it? >> mutto: yeah, this is our cell and this is the egg. >> stahl: and that's it. >> mutto: that's it. >> stahl: the new embryos are then incubated for one week. no sperm has been involved. >> mutto: we don't need the sperm. >> stahl: there's no male-- ? >> mutto: yes. yes, no male here. only me. >> stahl: ( laughs ) but, but that's incredible. so, it's not a male-female reproduction at all. >> mutto: yes. >> stahl: you're just taking a cell from whichever. could be a mare, or could be a male horse-- >> mutto: yes. >> stahl: and you're putting it
in this egg-- >> mutto: the cell, into the egg. >> stahl: no sex at all? >> mutto: and we-- no. poor horses. >> stahl: the incubated egg is implanted in a surrogate mare, who gives birth to the clone, like this one, that's three weeks old. cloning represented a business opportunity to this man, texas oil heir and polo enthusiast alan meeker. he had long dreamt of building a fleet of champion horses, and now had a way to do it. >> alan meeker: i did some short math and i realized it would take 50 years and about $100 million to do what i wanted to do. and i thought, "well, why don't i just clone a bunch of horses? really, really good horses." >> stahl: in 2009, meeker founded a horse-cloning business, and a year later, licensed the technology that was used to clone dolly the sheep. >> meeker: "okay, now-- now i need to find the best horses." so i put together an idea of licensing the genetics from the very best breeders in polo.
i knew some people that knew adolfo. >> stahl: was he considered one of the best breeders? not just the best players, but also one of the best breeders? >> meeker: breeders and owners of horses. his horses were performing better than anyone else. >> stahl: when alan first approached you about cloning? >> cambiaso: and i say yes the first day. >> stahl: immediately. >> cambiaso: yes. >> stahl: and, "guess what," you said, "alan, guess what i have?" >> cambiaso: yeah. i want to tell him that i have cells from a horse that i really loved, that i would love to clone. >> stahl: it took a while to get it right. one attempt failed. but after two years, adolfo got his wish. the birth of a clone of his beloved aiken cura, who grew into this magnificent, healthy horse, almost exactly like the original in strength, athletic ability, and temperament. >> cambiaso: when i saw him, i couldn't believe it. >> stahl: did you know by just looking, and of course it was a little foal at that point. >> cambiaso: yes, it was, but... >> stahl: you could tell?
>> cambiaso: to make sure, i took some hair from him, and i bring him back to argentina to do the d.n.a. >> stahl: ( laughs ) to double-check. >> cambiaso: to double-check it was him. >> stahl: at the same time, he decided to clone another horse-- his biggest star, a mare called cuartetera. now 17 years old, the original has been playing polo since she was four-- a year younger than most polo ponies, simply because she took to the game so quickly. >> cambiaso: i think she's born to play, you know? there is those horses in life, or like, soccer players like messi. it's not many. >> stahl: like you. >> cambiaso: no. i don't know, no. but what i'm saying, this horse is amazing. >> stahl: he took us to the barn where cuartetera lives, with eight of her clones. >> cambiaso: you see those, these two little points-- >> stahl: yeah? >> cambiaso: from this little point is where you make all these horses. >> stahl: this is where they took the cells to make the other? >> cambiaso: exactly. to make the other. because of her you get all these ones.
>> stahl: and that was what you were thinking? >> cambiaso: yes. >> stahl: "i'm going to clone the best?" >> cambiaso: that was my dream, but everybody was saying that i was crazy. and i like it right now because i'm having a good time hearing those people. >> stahl: yeah, they're saying, "he's not so crazy anymore." and look what he's done. in seven years, he and his partners have created more than a dozen clones of cuaretera. >> mutto: it's incredible for me. i never lose my, wow, this is-- my production. this is my equine daughter. >> stahl: dr. mutto, who was hired as the lead scientist in o e the cuartetera clones, took he thinks of as his children. >> mutto: this is cuartetera number five. >> stahl: oh, my god. >> mutto: this is number four. number three. number nine. >> stahl: oh, my god. >> mutto: number six. ( laughs ) >> stahl: you can tell which one! >> mutto: yeah. >> stahl: you're not reading anything-- >> mutto: because i know her by
the-- they are-- are all clones. right now, we have 14. >> stahl: just from cuartetera? >> mutto: 14, and next year, ten more. and 2019, ten more. >> stahl: in all, they have produced more than 100 clones from several of their best horses. in each case, he said the clones are strikingly similar to the originals in disposition, athletic ability, and appearance-- but not exactly. for example, the cuartetera clones all have white markings, but with different shapes and in different places-- some on the face, some on the ankle.t all to have inherited the original's calm, self-contained personality. so the genetics include this temperament? >> cambiaso: yes. >> stahl: and do the clones get along with each other? >> cambiaso: yeah, because they live together all year long. so, from here, they go to the farm together, then they move in blocks. if you take one out of them,
they are looking for it. >> stahl: they miss the one that you take out. >> cambiaso: yeah. >> stahl: did the clones have any special health issues? >> cambiaso: no. >> stahl: we talked to scientists at the national institute of health and were told there is no evidence that cloned animals suffer disproportionate health problems, though they have a slightly higher infant mortality rate. at first, many of adolfo's cloned embryos died during gestation. but, they refined their technique, and now tell us they have an 85% successful birth rate and have not experienced any health problems. so, as far as you are thinking, they're exactly the same in health, longevity. >> cambiaso: si. >> stahl: ability to play the game, all of it. >> cambiaso: yeah, similar. similar. not exactly the same. >> stahl: what are the differences? >> cambiaso: there is some that are a little bigger. some eat more, some eat less. or they move a little bit different. but the mind are really similar.
the good thing about it, they are machines, all of them. >> stahl: "machines"-- that's polo talk for horses that never quit. but how would they perform in competition? at the final at the argentine open, adolfo gambled that his cuartetera clones would be as good as the original, and, for the first time, he rode them almost exclusively. that part of the story, when we come back. tag! ♪ ♪ you're it! ♪
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>> stahl: regulators of thoroughbred horse racing worldwide have taken a firm stand against cloning. but, there is no such prohibition in polo, and so, cloning is spreading to teams beyond adolfo cambiaso's. it raises some thorny questions: does cloning give a team an unfair advantage? is it ethical? and where will it lead? de final match of the argentine open in buenos aires, one team rode clones, while the other refused to. the competition was as much about the merits of cloning as it was a sporting event. ( crowd roars ) out of more than 850 professional polo players, argentine native adolfo cambiaso, wearing the blue and white helmet and the jersey marked number one, is the best player in the world. he's held that ranking for 22 years, and is now leading a cloning revolution.
he's cloning his best horses; the one he's riding is a clone. he's competing on them-- and winning. when you're on one of the clones, playing, is there a special feeling? knowing that, you know, this is something that was your idea, you brought it to life-- >> cambiaso: yeah. in this stage of my career-- the last couple of years for me to play and prove that the clone works and play with cuarteteras and everything is an extra motivation for myself, for sure. >> stahl: i don't know that you need extra motivation. >> cambiaso: yeah, i do. i do. she'sreated 14 clones of cuartetera, his very best horse, a 17-year-old mare who is fast, easy to direct and can turn on a dime. she was honored last year as the best polo horse in history. her clones seem to be just as gifted. are they all as good as-- i want to call her mama. i don't, that's probably not the right word. >> cambiaso: the original. yeah. >> stahl: are they all as good?
>> cambiaso: i already won two argentine opens with the clones, so they will end up being as good as her, i think. >> stahl: cuartetera's clones are identified by numbers. shouldn't they have names? >> cambiaso: they have names. >> stahl: well, they don't. >> cambiaso: cuartetera. >> stahl: yeah, but-- >> cambiaso: cuartetera one, two, three, four-- >> stahl: was that your idea? >> cambiaso: yes. because i-- i believe that she is a cuartetera. all of the ones that i ride, they are cuarteteras. >> stahl: so, you actually think-- >> cambiaso: she's cuartetera when i play. >> stahl: when you're-- so, six is cuartetera, is-- >> cambiaso: is cuartetera. >> stahl: and when you're on nine, it's the same thing? >> cambiaso: cuartetera. >> stahl: but she' >> cambiaso: yes. but the d.n.a., it's a cuartetera. >> stahl: yeah, but when you have identical twins, they each get a name. >> cambiaso: but this is not twins, it's a clone. >> stahl: they can now create 100 clones a year, and they're using them in adolfo's already- successful breeding business.
they mate the clones with champion horses, and sell their foals for up to $250,000. but they never sell the clones. >> cambiaso: you sell the clone, you sell the blood, you sell the line, you sell the d.n.a. you sell everything, if you sell a clone. >> ernesto gutierrez: we keep the key of the genetics, and this was, i think, the good business to make that decision in the past. >> stahl: the idea of never selling the clones came from ernesto gutierrez, a shrewd argentine businessman who became a third partner in the hehis 0-acre property outside buenos aires, that includes three polo fields, and a nursery where the clones are born. they are carried by surrogate mares who treat them like their own. >> stahl: are these all cloned babies in here? >> gutierrez: all cloned babies? yeah. >> stahl: and these are the surrogate mothers?
and does the mother think it's totally her baby? >> gutierrez: totally, totally. look at that. >> stahl: gutierrez took us back to see the newest one-- that three-week-old clone of cuartetera who has her own nurse. oh, look how sweet! and frisky. oh, look at that, oh my. oh! not everyone in polo thinks cloning is a good idea, including adolfo cambiaso's main rival and opponent at the final of the argentine open. >> facundo pieres: there's a lot of guys cloning. but i think that they have to be careful, you know, because, the thing is that they're opening too much, you know? i mean-- >> stahl: pandora's box. you know what that means?oblems- >> pieres: exactly. >> stahl: facundo pieres is number two in the world, right behind adolfo. he showed us what he can do, like dribble a three-inch ball in the air while galloping down the field 20 miles an hour.
he's the captain of ellerstina, an old-school team made up of three brothers and a cousin. they are committed to keeping it a family enterprise. do you ever get angry at each other? >> pieres: yes. ( laughs ) yes, but in a good way. never, never-- never bad. >> stahl: his team is headquartered at another spinte, where they operate a multi-million dollar breeding business selling foals and embryos. they believe they can produce better horses through their the d.n.a. of two different horses, rather than by replicating just one. >> pieres: we want to keep it this way. and what we have here is amazing. >> stahl: in polo, what's more important, the horse, or the player? i was told that it's 80% the horse. sorry, no offense. >> pieres: yes, i, i agree. no, i agree. i agree. i totally agree. i think that the horse is. but of course, you need to have
a little bit of-- of talent and ability and-- and experience in the head, you know? >> stahl: facundo's team, ellerstina, has made it to the finals the last four years, but lost each time to adolfo cambiaso's team. fueling the rivalry on the field is a bitter history between them. adolfo played on the ellerstina team for nine years. >> cambiaso: because of what happened, that i left ellerstina and the rivalry is there-- >> stahl: intense. >> cambiaso: yeah. >> stahl: to this minute. >> cambiaso: yeah. >> stahl: do you feel it too? >> cambiaso: but it's fun. >> stahl: oh, you like it-- >> cambiaso: you've got to have rivalry to be better player too. >> stahl: there's more. before he left ellerstina, adolfo bought cuartetera, as an embryo, from the pieres family-- the very horse he is now cloning to compete against them. >> cambiaso: i was lucky to end up with cuartetera. >> stahl: you cloned from the best horse in the world. >> cambiaso: but she's born on my farm. i create her. >> stahl: there are people who
object to cloning on religious grounds. or on moral grounds. so what is the answer, when people challenge you? when they say, "man should not be doing this," because of these difficult spiritual questions? >> cambiaso: i don't see it, i don't see it wrong, to be honest. i'm just-- doing something for-- to improve my game, my sport. and i think the cuateteras did improve my game, my sport. and i'm not going farther than that. >> stahl: but, is there an unfair advantage, in terms of the game, in terms of the sport? >> cambiaso: no, because everybody's able to clone. now, everybody's kind of trying to start cloning. so, the advantage is that i did it seven years ago. >> stahl: so in 30 years, people will still be riding cuartetera? >> cambiaso: yes. >> stahl: so it could go on forever. >> cambiaso: yes, yes. >> stahl: alan meeker, the texas businessman who is adolfo's cloning partner, is well aware of the controversy around
cloning technology in the u.s., and the ban against it in thoroughbred horse racing. is a really good polo player-- does he have an unfair advantage if he's on a clone of one of the best polo horses ever? >> meeker: of course. horses are 80% of the game anyway. so if facundo pieres finds a horse that is better than cuartetera, then he has an advantage over his competitor. >> stahl: but he'll have only one. and that horse will get tired, and he'll have to switch to another horse in the game, whereas adolfo will have eight. >> meeker: right. >> stahl: so it's still an advantage. >> meeker: right. >> stahl: is that fair? >> meeker: under the rules, it's fair. there's no restriction on-- >> stahl: i know, but the game-- but sportsmanship, just the nature of the game. has this changed the very essence of the game of polo? >> meeker: no. i think what it's done is it's probably raise the bar.
>> stahl: you're going to have to clone. >> meeker: could be, yes. >> stahl: do you have any moral problems with cloning a human being? >> meeker: yes. i disagree with it. i know a good reason, lots of good reasons, to clone body parts, like hearts and lungs and pancreases. if it could be done in a productive manner, that can save lives. but i've been asked by some of the wealthiest people on planet earth to clone a human being, and we-- >> stahl: you have? >> meeker: absolutely. and the answer is always a resounding "no." >> stahl: well, they must have a reason. >> meeker: and they won't give it to me. >> stahl: they don't tell you why? >> meeker: no. >> stahl: i'm thinking, if science can do it, science will do it. and maybe one day, you know, there will be clones and we'll laugh at all the people who were questioning the morality of it now. >> meeker: someday, someone will do it, and we will either laugh or we will cry. but i'm not going to be the one to take that-- that leap. >> stahl: it could be done
today. >> meeker: yes. >> stahl: i assumed there'd be a big difference between a horse and a human. lots of differences. >> meeker: surprisingly little. >> stahl: oh? >> meeker: yeah. surprisingly littl >> stahl: at the final match at the argentine open, adolfo's team and the clones were expected to win, but seven minutes in, facundo's team was ahead, three goals to one. adolfo's team fought back. at half time, the score was: the cloners, seven; the breeders, six. it w so tense that at times it was as quiet as a tennis match. the end of the game was thrilling. ahead, 13 to ten, but then facundo's team, in a final blast, came back to tie the match. >> cambiaso: i never think i'm going to lose. i never. >> stahl: well, we saw you right before the overtime.
>> cambiaso: yeah. >> stahl: and here you are. like that. >> cambiaso: in that moment, i was trying to think, "which is the best horse for that moment?" >> stahl: he debated. should it be cuartetera nine? or five? finally, he picked number six. ( crowd roars ) in the first minute of the sudden death overtime, facundo's team lost control of the ball. adolfo's team recovered, and adolfo, on his mighty cuartetera six, outran everyone, and whacked the ball, setting up the winning shot.d watching, you had to wonder: waithe c othe world's best player, that made the difference? ( crowd roars )
>> this cbs sports update is brought to you by ford. i'm james brown with scores from the n.f.l. today. cleveland comes back from 14 down the tie pittsburgh. the first week-one tie since 1971678 other games of note, the bucs surprise the saints with four t.d.s. tom brady throws three touches as the pats hold on. k.c. wins. for 24/7news and highlight, visit cbssportshq.com. with our families and our friends. doing the things we love. alwa stronger when we're together. the 2018 ford expedition the j.d. power highest ranked large suv in initial quality.
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