tv Face the Nation CBS March 11, 2019 2:30am-2:59am PDT
wiisianalican senator john kennedy. senator, before we took this break, you were responding to andrew mccabe, the former deputy f.b.i. director, who has described himself as a lifelong republican but laid out here his deep concern about the president and his actions. >> well, let me say it again, there were and perhaps still are some people at the f.b.i., one of whom was mr. mccabe, who helped politicize the agency. when an f.b.i. agent knocks at your door, you shouldn't have to worry about whether you're a democrat or a republican and whether that makes a difference. and mr. mccabe has helped politicize that agency. and that's wrong. he really should be ashamed and he should hide his head in a bag. >> brennan: what do you mean
"pol there.an:n house," what do you mean by that? >> well, let me back up and say this, margaret. i'm talking about people over there who were both for trump and for c. they're intierd to have a personal opinion, but they're not entitled to act on it or leave the impression that they acted on it, and i think mccabe did that. i think he's part of a group over there that think they are more smarter and more virtuous than the american people, and i think it hurt the f.b.i. badly. mr. mccabe is also at the present time playing the role of huckster. he's trying to sell a book. and he was fired for lying to his fellow f.b.i. agents. now, if you and i lied to the f.b.i., we'd go to jail. if an f.b.i. -- >> brennan: i t mr. mccabe w dis just or his ability pension. some would say that was politically motivated firing of
him. >> he's lucky he wasn'tt? >> i'm in the saying this because -- >> brennan: for what? >> i'm not saying this because mccabe is obviously pro clinton. >> brennan: what would he be prosecuted for? >> for pudgery, for lying to an f.b.i. agent. he did it repeatedly. if you and i did, that we would go to jail. he just got fired >> brennan: i guess this is a preview of the questioning we'll hear from him before the senate judiciary committee if he's called to testify, senator yaim has said, but i want to ask you, since you sit on that committee as well, the sentencing we saw this week of trump campaign chairman, former trump campaign chairman paul manafort. he was charged with an array of felonies, financial crimes. federal sentencing guidelines would have had him serving upward of 20 years. got 47 months. does the punishment fit the array of crimes? >> before i answer your question, let me be clear aboute
whether you're a republican or a democrat. if you're at the f.b.i., you're not supposed to act on and i believe he's one bent too before. now, number two, mr. manafort -- >> brennan: sorry, can i clarify. you in the past i thought supported the mueller probe. mccabe helped to set up some of the special counsel there, specifically to look at the question of whether the president -- >> i do support the mueller probe. i do support the mueller probe, but that doesn't preclude mr. mccabe from being what he is, a bent to before. he hurt the f.b.i. badly and all the people over there who tried to help clint or tried to help trump. every one should hide his head in a bag. they hurt the premier law enforcement agency in all of human history, and we're going to have to spend a lot of time rehabilitating it. the american people don't trust it as much as they used. to that's wrong. >> brennan: but you say you still supp number one -- number one, i was
surprised at his sentence. i thought it would be longer. number two, as i said in the past, mr. manafort is a grifter. he used to be partner with roger stone. i'm sorry, margaret, he's just a sleaze oid. he's always played at the margins. number three, rather than just be opinionated, i would rather be informed. judge ellis has been on the bench 30 years. i have not read the sentencing memos. he obviously believed four years was enough. i might disagree with him, but i'd have the read the sentencing memos first, because there's a lot of stuff in there that you s >> b: lastly, does it trouble you that the president admitted he had discussed a presidential pardon with michael cohen? should he have been discussing that in an investigation he's involved in? >> well, as i understand it, at least part of the story, margaret, is that cohen and/or his lawyers approached the president and asked for a pardon. >> brennan: the president said
it happened directly in a direct conversation. that's the what the president said. >> well, okay. mr. cohen once again in front of congress lied then. he said that never happened. and i think with mr. cohen, given his checkered past, if he's breathing, he's lying. but, yeah, i mean, i guess i don't blame cohen for asking. it was inappropriate, but he shouldn't have lied to congress about it. >> brennan: senator, good to talk to you today. >> dr. stanley: remember this: cannot change the laws of god. when he has visited you in some form of adversity and he brings you through that, that's like he the founon of your life andyo f. [music] t about on the campaign trail,
the mueller probe and interpretation surrounding it. toluse, what did you hear from the candidates? >> i thought it was really striking to hear governor hickenlooper really try to position himself when it came to capitalism versus socialism. he struggled earlier in the week. he struggled when you asked him about it. he sort of tried to talk about party labels an how labels should not be the focus, but just being able to say, "i am a capitalist," when republicans are really trying and going all in on trying to brand democrats as socialists for a former businessman and a former governor who has not really toyed around with socialist ideas in the past, for him to struggle shows that the democratses are really trying to figure out how to approach this issue of whether or not capitalism works. we heard a little bit abouttomo. she did say that she does believe in markets and she does believe that capitalism is a positive program when you do have the right rules in place. but it is when you have bernie sanders getting very big crowds, it's hard for democrats to
figure out sort of how to talk about socialism versus capitalism, and they will be hit from the right from republicans and from the presiialists. >> as a republican, i just marvel at how democrats trip this we had president trump tweet that the communist economy of north korea under the dynamic leadership of its dictatorial leader could achieve unprecedented economic growth. the president routinely picks favorites among companies. he's erecting tariff walls, which are taxes on american exporters, and democrats can't figure out how the defend market economy with social insurance programs and let this guy claim the mantle of the champion of free enterprise? really? >> so there is a much more interesting drama beneath the surface that's going on among democrats, which is where is the energy in the party? why did w20. there is an a narrative that says we succeeded because the progressive left was full of energy and was out making this
happen. we took control of the house because of that. centrists in the party saying we're going crazy saying, no, no, that's not what happened in 2018. what happened in 2018 is republicans, soft republicans, suburban women, in districts that donald trump carried in 2016, proved over to our side. these were moderate voters that won the house back for us in 2018 in states like pennsylvania and minnesota and in virginia. and those are the people we have to go after. they will not be won over with a alist ssage. they're moderates, and those are the people who will make a difference in 2020. that's the debate. >> brennan: it's an interesting theory to go into the california primary of california's biggest business, too. what do you make of warren's strategy there? >> i agree with that. i think there's two things to unpack here. one is that senator warren is a very accomplished promotor of her ideas and of her ideology. but i think the other thing that's happening in the democratic party right now is the trump style of politics is being introduced. so you have basically the debate
of ideas and jerry's right there, is a huge debate inside the party about the best way to appeal to the voters that they need to appeal to in order to defeat trump. that's one debate. but it's in the purely about ideas. right? a lot of it is about style. and that's where i think you see the most pronounced shift. are we headed toward the tea party of the left? i think that's what connects the dots between what's happening inside congress this week and what's happening with these 2020 candidates. you see people like john hickenlooper vizbly uncomfortable with the new style of politics. elizabeth warren i think is a very interesting character. right?ditrom ose ornie nders, b her style is dramatically different. on your show, i was struck by how calm and measured she is, how very, you know, she is remember a former harvard law school professor. and she appears to be that way, which is very different than the bernie sanders shouting politics. and i think that's what fundamentally, as much as
ideology, is a conflict around the kind of party. are we going to have a demagog of the left to take upon a pop list right-wing demagog, which is what the president of the united states is basically. >> brennan: toluse, how do we understand the showdown among house democrats over congresswoman ilhan omar's remarks? >> house democrats did not want the spend this week talking about anti-semitism. they had a number of different bills they were putting through, but because they are struggling with this interesting battle between the progressives and the base and the moderates and the leadership that is older, you have religious lines, you have racial lines, you have generational lines that the democrats are struggling over. they haven't quite figured out how to balance the very diverse class they have. i think that's part of the reason you saw nancy pelosi wanting to start off with a very tough resolution specifically commenting on ilhan omar's comments, but then she got a lot of push yam from 2020
candidates, from some of the progressive base who said this was unfairly singling out, you know, a muslim congresswoman, one of the few african american women in congress, and one of the few freshman in thed e it ae broad statement and looked at not only anti-semitism and anti-slim bigotry and anti-lgbt action. i think that was part of the reason why the democrats spent the whole week sort of trying to figure out where they can find some sort of balance in the party. >> brennan: this is red meat for republicans, certainly the president. he tried to label democrats anti-jewish. >> he did try that, which is certainly eyebrow raising. i think what's going on here is that when you have a big intake in any party in a year, you pick up a lot of people who are not ready for prime time and a lot of people who are. quethat will face progressive democrats, who here wants to be inside the building making the decision, and who wants to be outside the
building carrying the placards. people will pick different career paths. i think you can see from the extraordinarily careful and targeting and self-effacing questioning that alexandria ocasio-cortez did versus the rather sad defenses of ilhan omar by the democratic leadership, you have towns, she doesn't quite know what words mean, if you don't know what words mean, congress may be the wrong line of work for you >> brennan: well, i want to ask you, to tee up the piece you just wrote for "the atlantic." >> thank you. >> brennan: great read, but it's a topic that touches some of these very hot-button issues, thamemand ace,g is to with the challenge of population growth and influx of people either across the board of just into this country. >> so one of the things that's a real casualty of the trump
years, the articles about immigration, the united states and other countries from a social point of view need less even as their economies are clamoring for more of it. the argument of the piece is this is about preserving socialist ability. what's happened is immigration, and i blame trump for this, has become a culture war issue rather than a social stability issue. so it's not a binary question. it's not open the borders or have none. it's not something any one country can manage on its own without reference to other countries. immigration is a system. you have to manage it ooze a system. and our ability and when i saytt across the developed world, we have to think rationally to, stand up for the citizens of the country, we answer to the citizens of the country, not to the world, to your own citizen, how do you do something that stands the test and is not just driven by the imperatives of business. i think the greatest single line ever written by this problem was written by a swiss writer who said, "we wanted workers, we got
people instead." i think we need to understand, you are choosing the future population of your country. if you choose wisely, immigration can be a great source of strength. if you choose poorly, it can rip your society apart and empower the most extreme elements in your own society. >> brennan: you say this as an immigrant yourself. >> i am born in canada. i was naturalized in 2007. >> i think what everybody knows and nobody will actually acknowledge is that the problem here is not immigration, it's the immigration system is broken. it doesn't work. it hasn't really been upgraded since 198. if everybody would step back from to motion, they would agree that what's needed is comprehensive immigration reform, not this many immigrants or that many immigrants. that's not happening. that's the problem of the paralysis in this city. >> well, it's the death of technocracy and rational policy debate. you can have all the reasonable, rational arguments you want for immigration reform. i had a conversation the other day with a former senior official in the bush administration. was that the key domestic policy
failure of the bush administration, putting aside the iraq war, was to not pursue comprehensive immigration reform, but to go for social security reform first. i think we'll all look back at that deal that was available then obviously we would be in a very different place in our politics right now had that occurred. >> the comprehensive immigration reform is usually code for more. and the right answer is less. and the right answer is not zero, but the right answer is less it seems to me. and yes, it's true, that technocracy and evidence-based decision making has had a bad bunch of innings. people who advocate this approach, we havt failures on our hand we're watching the brexit debate. that's a reaction to the financial crisis, theilures, the iraq war and the bush administration, which i was a part, but for all its failures, prejudice and impulsiveness and yelling at people and symbols, that has an even worse record
than evidence-based decision making. >> brennan: well, immigration is going to be its own show another day. we have so much more to talk acted, but we have to leave it there. thanks to all of you. we're going to be back with more "face the nation" in just a moment. boss: it's a big responsibility. employee: oh, it's huge. i know, it's huge. boss: and the salary... employee: oh my god, yes. i was literally about to move in with my parents and right before... yeah, so this saved me. boss: i really believe in you. you know? employee: thank you. it's nice to hear that from someone. boss: these are cool. did you...um? where did...
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announcer: support more victories for veterans, go to dav.org. >> brennan: we're now joined by former deputy secretary of state william burns. that's author of a new book "the back channel: a memoir of american diplomacy and the case for its renewal." welcome to "face the nation." >> margaret, it's great to be with you >> brennan: i hope this isn't saying that american diplomacy is dead. >> new york it's not dead at all. in fact, i think it matters more than ever on today's international landscape, which is a lot more crowded and ete som ways than ever before. my concern is just that i think we're drifting right now, and that's the case for rening diacy.ly t russia, because you spent a lot of time in russia. you speak russian. and you have a number of documents declassified for the book that you wrote, revealing private conversations you had. and one of them, you write about a one-on-one you had with vladimir putin in 2007. it stands out because he
essentially to you, to your face, threatened the u.s. if the u.s. interfered in their elections, saying, "don't think we won't react to outside interference." in hindsight, was that a preview of what happened in 2016? >> it was a little bit of a preview, i think. you know, putin is a very combustible combination i think of grievance and ambition and insecurity, and he's convinced that the united states has been trying to undermine his regime and the kremlin, you know, going back to the color revolutions in ukraine and georgia 15 years ago. the truth, of course, is those revolutions were about ukrainians and georgian, not americans, but puritien came to the conviction we were out the undermine him, and putt season an apostle of payback, so when he saw an opportunity in 2016 to take advantage of dysfunction and polarization in our own political system and interfere and sow -- sew chaos, he took
advantage of it. >> brennan: you talk a lot about the trump administration toward the end of the book. when it comes to putin, you basically say the president has a very wrong-headed approach to think that flattery or trying to be friends with putin will get him anywhere >> i think foreign policy diplomacy, as you well know, is about advancing american interests. it's not about getting along with people. i think if you saw the summit press conference between trump and putin in helsinki, what you saw was really embarrassing, an attempt by president trump to ingratiate himself with putin and throw his own intelligence and law enforcement agencies under the bus. i think putin reads that as a sign of ovilmar -- a sign of weakness, a sign of ma in my opinion laability. >> brennan: you're not a talking head. you're a career diplomat, 33 years, five presidents, ten interest rates you speak under. you speak russian, arabic,
french, a slew of awards from the intel community and the state department, and i lay that out to say, you were very careful in choosing your words. when you write about the trump administration, you say it has diminished american influence on a shifting international landscape, hallowed out american diplomacy and only deepened the divisions among the americans about our global role. has the president hurt u.s. national security? >> well, i am concerned that just as wrote in the book that what you're seeing in this administration, especially from president trump himself, is a worldview and a set of actions that are undermining our stature and our influence in the world. it has real corrosive effect right now. the truth is president trump didn't invent a lot of problems on that landscape or a lot of concerns within our own society, but i think he's making them worse right now, too. this is a moment when the united states is no longer the only big kid on the geopolitical block.
it is a moment when diplomacy, when our alliances, our capacity for building coalitions is what sets us apart from lonelier powers like china and russia, is more important than ever. and more concern is that we're squandering those assets right now >> brennan: do you applaud his attempt at diplomacy with north korea? >> i do, i think effort, including the effort to engage directly with north korea's leader, started out as an admiral effect. the concern i have right now is in the second summit meeting in hanoi, we're giving kim jong-un an unearned boost in his stature. i this i we need to take advantage of the disappointment in hanoi to reset our approach on north korea. >> brennan: now, you helped lead the back channel talks that began the secret negotiations with iran that ultimately led to the nuclear deal. president trump pulled out of that. it still exists in some form with the europeans at least. at happens nexto that deal? do you see the u.s. on a
trajectory to have a direct clash with iran? >> my concern is that, you know, given the law of inadvertent collisions, we can bang into the iranians or our allies and friends can. there are so many combustible parts of the landscape in the middle east right now. that can set off a chain of escalation that can be very difficult to control. i do think it was a huge mistake to pull out of the iran deal. i think it was the best of the available alternatives to prevent iran from developing nuclear weapons. i think pulling out has added to the fissures between us and our closest european allies. in way it's done vladimir putin's work for him. i think it's also eroded the long-term value of sanctions as an instrument of american foreign policy simply because by unilat israeli pushing for -- unilaterally pushing for sanctions rather than working with our partner, we open up another area of vulnerability >> brennan: thank you very much. >> it's a pleasure.
belter than mine.ndwriting is you sparked a nice big movement for sure and we get to represent it together, that's it. >> reporter: she got to wear them center court at the warriors game on international women's day right along side her idle and one-time pen pal. >> i want to be just like him. >> i want my girls to grow up like that and have that confidence. that's our sdwrub shane their perspective so they know they can do what they want to. >> we elehave a voice.sily wri e can make a change. >> that's the overnight news for this monday. from the cbs broadcast centenen
quijano. ♪ no survivors. a boeing jetliner crashes in ethiopia. all 157 people on board are killed, including eight americans. why it's raising questions about the 737 max. also tonight several democrats who want to be president try out ideas add a trendy texas festival. president trump pick as new fight with democrats while being preoccupied with an old employee. a jaguar attack as woman taking a selfie at an arizona