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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  June 27, 2012 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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>> rose:ing with to the program, tonight a conversation with marco rubio the junior senator from florida, a rising star in republican politics, and a man who is on the short list for mitt romney as a vice presidential running mate. >> the number one issue is hispanic households are economy, the future, the reason why immigration matters it is not a statistical argument, the reason why argument matters and goes right to the heart of my book, i discussed this one of the things i do in the book is discuss how i as a son of immigrants in a community of immigrants all of my neighbors are immigrants, my wife's families are immigrants how torn i am on the issue from time to time. one of the things about it is, i get it. i understand we have to have laws, they have to be pose enforced but if you are in a hispanic people you love people that are undocumented and you understand the human story behind the statistics, you understand the human stories behind the facts and figures that you see reported. illegal immigration is not a problem or issue, it is a human being that you know.
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and so for hispanics that is how that issue comes to play, hispanics are not in favor of illegal immigration, i think the way you generate more revenue for government the way you do it is through more taxpayers not more taxes you find people jobs, people work, they make more money at the jobs and they pay more taxes, the government takes that revenue and uses it to pay down the debt, not to grow the government, that is where i think i want us to focus and look here is a very telling thing that really struck me the other day i finished care row's latest book. >> rose: of lyndon johnson. >> yes about lyndon johnson and one of the things he took on was kennedy's tax cuts and the reason why kennedy wanted to pass tax cuts is to generate revenue, so what changed in the democratic party, president kennedy and president i don't know son believed the way they could generate the revenue for government they wanted in order to pay for the things they wanted to pay for is by lowering tax rates, why has that now changed? now i am not saying that is necessarily the challenge today, i think more of a challenge than simply the rate today is stability in the tax
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code, a simpleness to the tax code, a compliability with the tax code and i wish we would spend time on tax reform, and the arab spring doesn't happen without technology and without twitter, facebook, youtube it just doesn't happen and in cuba people don't understand this, i think the latest figures are 80, 85 percent of the people have no access to internet whatsoever they can't communicate with each other, if you been people had access to the internet, there is no way the castro regime could survive. >> rose: a conversation with the great indian businessman and philanthropist ratata and the president of the rockefeller foundation we will show you that broadcast at another time. tonight, marco rubio for the hour. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following.
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additional funding provided by these funders. >> and by bloomberg, a pro captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.
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in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: marco rubio is here, sea junior senator from florida, he is often described as one of the rising stars of the republican party, he is also on mitt romney's short list of prospective running mates, his political began in the florida house of representatives in 2000, the youngest person, first hispanic to hold the post of florida house speaker and came to national prominence after winning 2010 senate race and tells his story in a new book an american son, a memoir, i am happy to have senator rubio at this table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: whatever happened to your business in washington. >> we had to vote. >> rose: you had to vote. so let's tuck about immigration and let's talk about cuba and talk about presidential politics and talk about the economy and other issues that might come up. >> first the immigration issue. >> yes. >> and today's vote on arizona. >> well, first, you know, it is
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interesting, and i grappled with that issue during my campaign, there and one of the chapters in the book as i am discussing how the campaign unfolded talked about a moment of time in april when arizona passed the immigration law and asked to comment and as candidate of the united states senate and i was torn about it, initially i didn't like it at all, i mean i didn't like this idea you could profile people, this was being said about it and two things happened, the first is arizona went back and tweaked the law to make it specifically prohibited, to be able to profile people, it was never their intent but they went back and delineated that specifically. and then the second thing that happened is i started to learn more about the arizona situation and i came to realize that arizona has a very unique situation, unlike florida, we have an immigration problem in florida but we are a peninsula. >> rose: they have the border problem. >> they have a border problem and not just immigration, it is not just an immigration issue but a gun running issue, human trafficking issue, in fact, those issues are bigger than the immigration problem, they are frustrated the federal government hadn't acted or
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hadn't acted enough and they turned to their legislature and said pass this law, i understood that. >> rose: but beyond all of that, i mean, are you bothered by the idea of profile something. >> well, obviously, but i don't think that is what they want in arizona, they made it very clear you can't profile and you can't pull people over because they look like they are hispanic you can't do that, the law specifically pro hints that. >> rose: what does it allow. >> it allows basically for the issue to come up, if you stop somebody in the lawful conduct of your business as a police officer, you have a right to inquire about their immigration status as a secondary matter to whatever other reason it was you stopped them, it can't be the primary reason why you stop them and so i think that is what the supreme court upheld as well, but so i think they have a constitutional right to pass a law like this, i understand why they passed a law like this, but wrong it is a national model. >> rose: and you support a law like this. >> well, i don't think it is a national model, i support's arizona's right to pass it. >> rose: i understand what their right to pass and another thing obviously -- >> and i understand why -- >> rose: -- appropriate for florida. >> i don't think florida needs a
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law like that and to be quite frank i don' i don't think thatt the rest of the country should do, i think it won't be necessary to do that if we have a federal government that does its job. and again i will remind people if you don't like the arizona law then get the federal government to do its job because otherwise more and more states will feel the pressure from their citizens to tip marley border states to address issues like this, so my hope is we will have federal action on an issue that does belong in the value purview that will get rid of need for laws like this in the future for, so the states won't take them up. >> rose: talk about immigration in a broader sense, you have said many times you think that what has to happen and you say it in this book too that the federal government has to win the confidence. >> yes. >> rose: a series of immigration, number one, 2 it has to modernize the immigration system which is broken and you say the final step is the hardest it has to define what happens to people who are illegal. >> yes. >> what happens to them, and
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second, to show some respect for the people who are legal. >> well i hope the point that comes across in any book is i try to bring my personal perspective to the probation issue and i think what i argue is it is very complicated, both sides over simplify immigration there is the real human element here and these are folks that most, the vast majority come to this country in search of a better life, many of them are desperate and doing exactly what many of us would do if we found ourselves in that position, on the other hand, we have to have immigration laws and they have to be enforced and can't be the only country in the world that doesn't enforce its immigration laws, i think it is also important to remind people how generous we are with our immigration policy. >> rose: you talk about enforcing our laws, what laws and what enforcement do you want to see? is the question. >> i think the important thing when i say want enforcing the laws we can't have the attitude i understand they broke the law but now they are here we have to look the other way we have millions of people waiting to look here legally and many hispanics with a indicating to come here legally from what ten america what do i come when they come to my office, i tell them
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to come illegally because it is quicker and cheaper? so i think what we need to do is number one, the first step in this process is to win the confidence of the american people, and that means continuing to improve border security and i think it is important to recognize that the border has gotten more secure, still some more work to do, a lot of this is a function of funding and secondarily some sort of electronic verification system, e file system that is cost-effective and that business accounts use to verify the employment eligibility of the people that they are hiring, we need to modernize the immigration system, a guest worker program, agricultural program, we need to have visas that take into account high tech jobs and things of that nature, we need to re-examine this whole per country quota issue which doesn't make a lot of sense, and then i think if you do these things and you have a 21st century legal immigration system, a border that is secure and e verify system in place, i think it becomes easier to deal with the people that are here undocumented, i don't think it
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will ever be easy and have more options and easier to deal with. >> rose: so if there is a way to say that we do not want to encourage illegals come is there a way to say that in a clear and distinct the if way, then you would be prepared to do something positive about the illegal aliens, 12 million of them that are here now? if in fact i am trying to get the condition that is necessary for one of the more prominent politicians on immigration in the united states. >> but i don't think we can talk about how you specifically address the groups that are hire illegally now, outside of the kids which we can talk about in a moment because i think the kids are here through no fault of their own we can't address that without having the other issues in place and here is why, when the immigration issue a decade ago was not nearly as controversial as it is now, there was a lot more openness because the american people by and large are pro immigration. >> rose: has it become controversial. >> i think the issue got worse and the numbers got worse in terms of the people coming here and unaddressed, no one paid attention to it, if you raised
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objections to illegal illegal, illegal reentry, it only made people more upset because they are not anti-immigrant or anti-hispanic they want the law enforced and see the dramatic impact illegal immigration could have, i think the other side is also guilty of it, i have criticized some of the rhetoric in my own party on the issue of immigration and challenged -- >> rose: who have you criticized. >> for example, i don't think we should be the anti-illegal party but the pro legal immigration party. >> rose: what is the difference. >> rose:. >> ? >> we have to recognize it is good for america. >> i don't think enough emphasis is placed on it when you just talk about enforcement and don't talk about how important it is to have a functional, legal immigration system, people can get the impression you are just against immigration and we are not. >> rose: and immigration is good for the united states. >> it has been and will continue to be as i said the other day in a speech, how did immigration become a divisive issue in a nation of immigrants? is. >> rose: do we risk having this idea that immigration is bad for the united states
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because of the present the dialogue? >> i do think there is always a risk of that and that's why it is important for us in public office to remind people of how important immigration is for our future and how good it is for america. >> why so many politicians want to change immigration and are not. >> i think the politics are powerful on both side of the equations it is a useful politician distinction point and we believe, the left uses it, i think i am absolutely convinced there are some, not all obviously but some democrats who prefer the immigration issue go unresolved until after the election they want to use it to win hispanic votes and i know there are people on the other side of the equation that raise money off of this issue and so forth. so i think both sides, there are enough elements on both sides that have figured out immigration unresolved is a more powerful politician, political issue. >> rose: what stance on immigration would cause most hispanics to come to vote for one person or the other? >> i think hispanics by and large are like the rest of the country, the number one issues in hispanic households, are job, the economies, the future, the
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reason why immigration matters it is not a statistical argue, it goes to the heart of my discuss, one of the things i do in the book is i discuss how i as a son of immigrants in a community of immigrants all of my neighbors are immigrants, my wife's family is immigrants how torn i am on the issue from time to time. one of the things about it is, i get it, i understand we have to have laws and they have to be enforced, but if you are a hispanic community you know people or you love people that are undocumented, and you understand the human story behind the statistics, you understand the human stories behind the facts and figures that you see reported, illegal immigration is not a rob or an issue, it is a human being you know so for hispanics that is how that issue comes to play, hispanics are not in favor of illegal immigration, 100 percent understand how -- >> rose: in favor of legalizing those who are here? >> i think. >> notwithstanding it doesn't mean they are in favor of illegal immigration, you can be for legalizing illegal immigrants without being in favor of more illegal immigrants
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coming, can you not? >> but here is what i would say, i don't pretend to speak for all hispanics nor do i pretend to speak for a majority of hispanics, i can tell you my view which i think is typical of many, people happen to be of hispanic descent on the one hand i understand this country need to have a legal immigration system and what is the purpose of having a system of laws if they are not enforced and not respected and we don't expect them to be followed, on the other hand, i know people that are undocumented or have been undocumented in the past, and i feel bad for them and feel sorry for them. >> rose: what do you do for them or against them? >> that is a my role as a policymaker to see how we can balance the two issues in a way that on no-no, honors our heritage as a nation of law and immigrants and it is not easy and that is my biggest beef with this whole thing both sides over simplify it. >> rose: let's speak about the issue that you have some agreement on, you believe that people who are children, who were brought here without any decision making part, any part in the decision-making process should happen, should be done, what should happen to them. >> first of all i don't support
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the dream act, i think the dream act as currently structured is too broad and encourages illegal immigration in the future and particularly creates a special pathway to citizen ships that would encourage illegal immigration in the future and would apply to many people outside of these kids because now these kids would quickly become citizens and be able to bring in relatives here is a better approach and the one we have been developing. >> rose: and you are in the process of developing this -- >> and continue to develop and taking input from everyone who wants to be involved. >> rose: why while you are developing that, you think the president stepped forward because he wanted to cut -- >> i don't i don't know their motives i can tell you they certainly did it for political reasons and wanted to have a position on this issue, i think the president's campaign concluded that the intensity of support in the hispanic community is not at the levels they wanted, and they figured out well let's do something to increase that intensity so they acted on this anybody a way i think is going to set us back in the long-term from finding a long-term solution, by politicizing it. >> rose: yo you are favor or what they have done, go ahead. >> there are differences number one i wanted to cothis in the
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law and a lot of details to hopefully what i will propose here soon that the president's plan doesn't have in place, so just as an example, i think you would would look and see kids under a certain anal, you know, 15, 14 years of age who entered before that anal have lived here continuously and have no criminal record, graduate from high school and are going to college, would receive basically nonimmigrant visa which we do now, nonimmigrant visa. >> rose: what is that different from what the president immigrated. >> he is basically saying we won't deport you and give you a work permit for two years and after that you are back in the same -- >> rose: you would give them more than him. >> a no a nonimmigrant visa looe problem is it is not a serious effort to deal with this, there was a serious effort to deal with this issue if you are serious in basically saying look this is an issue that is so important, this issue of the kids is a humanitarian issue and not an immigration issue let's put party politics aside and
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threat's work with anybody who will work with us to solve it and that never happened, in fact there is a documented, at least two different newspapers and media have reported when i first began to discuss my idea, the white house called dream act advocates, the kid and asked them not to cooperate with us, not to work with us on this, eviscerated us and attacked my idea and called it second class citizenship, the dream act without the dream, the modern day a pa apartheid, apartheid aw the president's idea is for it and shows how politicized this issue is, but just to wrap up the idea i think it is important, these kids will get nonimmigrant visa to study and after they braugh to work and after a period of time probably ten years from start to finish, they would have every opportunity as any other nonimmigrant visa holder to be petitioned for under the existing immigration system, not a special pathway, so it is not second class citizenship, at some point they would be like any other nonimmigrant visa holder but doing it in a way that is responsible, that doesn't encourage illegal immigration in the future that
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doesn't fall in some of the pitfalls the dream act has. >> rose: what would you do for those illegal immigrants who are not children? what would you do? what would you say to them you don't have to go back -- >> i don't have an answer to that right now. it begins by saying it is not easy to deal with it, because anything -- i will tell you what we are not going to do, we are not going to round up and deport 12 million people and grant amnesty to 12 million people, neither of those two things is going to happen so i believe if we can win the confidence of the american people and create a legal immigration system with a functional guest worker program then i think we will have more options in how to deal with these folks. >> is it political in you saying that why shouldn't we expect more from you, from you, because of the career that you have had and because as you said, you talked a lot about it here, why shouldn't you have an answer? why shouldn't a man who began to speak out because he is on foreign affairs and other committees, intelligence committee speak out on this very important issue. >> because it is a complicated
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issue. >> rose: but -- >> well let me tell you, in order to help these people, because of the situation they are in, you are going to need the significant support of the american people, you cannot find a solution to the problem of those folks that is divisive or divides this country sharply, and you are not going to get to a point where the american people are going to have a conversation with you about what to do with folks to find themselves in this predicament, so long as we are not enforcing the laws, the border is not secured in their minds, there is no e verify system in place to protect american jobs and a functional system to plug these folks into and you are just not going to get the political support for it and create more with divisiveness in politics, my point is this country has a long tradition of accommodating immigrants i think that is still in our nature and still a pro immigration country, but it is also a country that wants its laws respected and has the right to have these laws respected i think once the american people feel more secure their government is serious about immigration and immigration enforcement, then i think you are going to have or space. >> rose: you seem to be saying
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as soon as the public feels more coident and secure then we can find a way to go forward with this, in other words -- >> i don't think you can engage -- the public in a conversation about what to do with these folks so long as they feel the border is porous and there is no verification in the workplace. >> rose: so what do you need to get their confidence? >> i think it begins with that, i think you have to if border is more secure, at least to a satisfactory level and i think the next key and the big one is electronic verification in the workplace, it is good for employers, and by the way it is good for the immigrant, because otherwise, they are being taken advantage of in many instances. >> rose: with the candor you are speaking tell me what you think of governor romney's positions on immigration expressed during the primary campaign. >> well i think what he expressed during the primary campaign is strong support for at that legal immigration system that works, he outlined that in a speech in orlando, here is another thing he did in the campaign he gave voice to a very
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legitimate frustration in america about immigration, it is a legitimate frustration, i will repeat with all of the repeat all of the 12 million people here undocumented and believe me i know the stories and they are heartbreaking maybe, 40, 50 million people coming to wait legally and see their families in my offices and no one talks about them, what about them? someone needs to speak out for them, they have done it the right way and i think not enough attention is being paid to that either. >> rose: well, can't you care about what happens to illegal without suggesting that you don't care about the people who came here and did all of the right things legally? >> rose: speak to the cause -- to the idea of illegal, you say they won't be deported and america won't let that happen. >> we are not going to round people up, that is not going to happen. >> rose: you said deport them -- >> people do get deported. >> rose: the president had a reasonably good record on that. >> i think you will continue to see that move forward, but i think it is going to become less necessary because of we are trying to see that the downturn in the economy, for example, has led a lot of people to go back
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home and improvement in the economy in latin america, for example in mexico with all of the bad news about violence the mexican economy is improving and emerging. >> rose: people are coming back. >> people are coming back, last year it was a net zero, maybe even a negative at the border in terms of the number of people who came and left, but the bigger point is on the issue you are asked, an important question, yes, you have human compassion for the story of folks who are here in undocumented fashion but here is my point, what message do you send to people who are trying to come legally if you are going to grant people that came illegally instant access to the country and the people who are waiting in line. >> rose: you can make a division those people who are here and say that is what we are talking about and it has nothing to do with how we peel about legal immigration, we are in favor of it and support it and ought to support the laws we have yet at the same time -- >> i think every action we take on immigration sends a mental and if america allows people to come here through a amnesty it sends a mental that is the better way to come here and that was the practical reality of the mid mean eighties. >> rose: do you like the word
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amnesty. >> i think the word amnesty has come to describe a process which -- >> rose: a code word for -- >> i think primarily what people are concerned about is you are going to take someone who knowingly violated the laws of this country and knowingly violated the immigration process and reward them by giving them a fast-track to citizenship than they normally would have had if they did it the right way and not a concern about that and a concern what message that send to other people trying to come the right way. >> rose: you said for immigrant families, the issue is not immigration, their issue is the economy. where do you think our economy is as we speak at the end of june, 2012? >> i think we are a resilient people with a resill yentl economy that struggling under the weight of a disfunctional government, a government that has unpredictable and unmanagable tax code. >> rose: unfunctional because. >> it can't solve any problems. >> rose: because? >> because everybody wants to wait until after the election to deal with issues and we have elections every two years so there will always be a next election but if you look at what
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is happening today from the business side, from the private sector which is the only place you are going to get the amatic growth. >> rose: where job creation takes place. >> that is where explosive economic growth takes place which creates jobs and revenue for government to pay down its debt we have a very unpredictable tax code, no one knows what it is going to be two years from now, much less a decade from now. >> rose: will tax reform be, if you have anything to do with it, a primary consideration of the next congress? >> absolutely i wish you would start on it right now, in fact if you told me two years ago when i got elected two years would go by without any progress on tax reform, regulatory reform or entitlement reform i wouldn't believe you. >> whose fault is that. >> everyone. >> rose: republican, democrat. >> absolutely, two thought roses some in my party that believe that let's just wait it will after the election because let's let the focus be on the president's record which i think is a very valid reason, thing to focus on, he has to defend his record but i think we have to be for something i just don't want
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the republican party to be the opposition i want us to be the alternative and i think democrat is prison to their base. >> rose: that's the argument they make about the republican and you are a hero of the tea party but the tea party has made the republican party in the house prisoner to them. >> yeah. >> hostage. >> the tea party movement stands for mainstream positions in american politics, unfortunately that is not the way it is often portrayed, what the pea party moves for is a government that doesn't spend more money than it takes in, a tax code that you can comply with, it is not an anarchist movement but it is not -- >> rose: the perception people tea party members in the congress and house on the republican side have held hostage the public leadership to making a grand bargain. >> well, i don't know about that, i can tell you that i think people, especially those who were elected in 2010 expect to be held accountable to what they campaigned on, i never understood that, you get elect and you say this is what i stand for, but people on washington
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when you get there, expect you to forget about it what you stood for and basically change your mind otherwise they say you are unreasonable, i expect to be held accountable for the principles i ran on and the things i believe in, i was very clear when i ran the things i supported and the things i didn't, and i think people who voted for me expect me to live up to those things and five years from now the people of florida decide that they want a different senator that stands for a different set of principles, we will have an election to decide that, if indeed i run for reelection so these are the can kind of things i find frustrating in washington is, you know, i think many of my colleagues that were elected in 2010 were elected on a very specific set of principles. >> all right, i want to talk about the economy and what you would to about it and the notion of a grand bargain, you and i briefly talked about it earlier on cbs this morning, it is this idea that many people are saying, yes, we need to have a grand bargain, yes, we need to look at entitlements and yes we need to have not only a new look but we have to change the way it into.s are granted in this country, regardless of what the
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promise has been made, on the other hand, those same people say, yes, we have a huge deficit, that are impede our economic growth and limit us unless we have something on the revenue side, a grand bargain that will include both, entitlement cuts and tax reform and tax revenue increases we will not be able to achieve the objectives that are necessary. >> well let's start by degoing what the goal is, it is not do give each side something it wants, the goal here is to solve the problem. >> rose: right. >> so it does us no good to have a solution half what we want and half what you want but not solve the problem. >> rose: can you solve the problem without having some kind of compromise. >> the only way to solve the problem you can't cut your way out of this predicament and not tax your way out in of the predicament we are in, the only way out of the predicament is grow our way out of this predicament and i think if you look at the, at what the president is saying and governor romney is saying there is agreement on that point, the
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goal is economic growth. >> rose: everybody is in favor of economic growth. tell me one person not in favor of economic growth and one person who doesn't think our economic growth level is inadequate now. >> that is right, everybody agrees that is the goal and so the debate is about how, what is government's role in generating growth in the economy? and the president believes the role of government is for the government to spend money in the economy creating demand. >> rose: the president believes in any kind of spending cuts. >> the president believes in spending cuts from one place because he wants to spend it in where else. >> rose: in negotiating he was willing to make spending cuts and some elimination of deductions which would mean tax revenue and so is john boehner and mitch mcconnell. >> i think the president was in favor of some discretionary cuts but not in favor of entitlement reform which is where the real money is, medicare and where is the president's plan to save medicare, he is in office four years and a pressing the issue and never offered a plan to save medicare and i am telling you, of all of the important programs in there, that impacts about
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3 million people in my state, one of them is my mother, medicare is a critical program for in earns, it has to be saved, it is going bankrupt, it will bankrupt our country unless it is reformed where is the president's plan on medicare. >> rose: what is your mother's view. >> we both support medicare and wouldn't support reforms to medicare that would hurt her mr. >> the only way to change med compare is accept the fact that my medicare and the people in my generation, i am 41 years old, my medicare if i want it to be reformed in a way that doesn't change the way my mom gets medicare it is going to look different than hers it is probably going to look a lot like some of these proposals that have been out here -- >> like paul ryan would like to see. >> that is one solution. >> rose: is that the solution you agree with. >> it is the only one out there i plea with right now and the only one that is proposed that is serious, when people talk about paul ryan's plan which is also senator widen's plan. >> rose: which is also mitt romney's plan. >> but here is my question if you don't like it what is your plan? that is my response. >> rose: fair enough. >> and i don't know people ask
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me how do you like it, i say compared to what, right now the only serious plan to say medicare. >> rose: you are saying i like it because it is the only plan out there or saying i like it because -- >> -- >> all of the things i believe in and if i have my way i would like too see the paul rand budget and plan enacted in toto? >> i this at this paul ryan plan i voted for it and very reasonable approach to this issue. >> rose: period, not in compared to other things. >> i am sure he would agree it can be improved, i don't know the detailed of the paul ryan plan as well as representative rhinos it i can tell you it is a reasonable and responsible approach to medicare reform and the only one out there that allows us to save the program. >> rose: why do you think the president has not come forward with what he would go to reform entitlement spending? because his base will revolt and the political costs of doing it and he wants to use it as an issue to beat up on republicans. >> rose: by what. >> by what he said, which ads
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show elderly being pushed over a cliff and accusing paul ryan of being uncaring for the plight -- >> rose: social darwinism. >> of all of these sort of things he said, it is very powerful politics, that is exactly why he doesn't do it. >> rose: look at this and tell me what think, conversations i have done renal recently in the last few months with john boehner and mitch mcconnell. >> many people say you and the republican party have to face up to the fact we are going to need additional revenue and that the president has to face up to the fact that they have to take a serious look and make cuts in entitlements. why cannot two people who are friends come to some understanding on this grand bargain and make it happen because of the american people want it to happen? >> i sat for month with the president, he wanted revenue, i said mr. president i will put revenue on the table that we can achieve without affecting our tax code but the only waily do
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that is if you are willing to have real fundamental reform of our entitlement programs. and the fact is, we have an agreement, and then two days later the president decided he wanted $400 billion more of revenue which was, in effect, $400 billion tax raise. >> rose: so the speaker of the house was prepared and with his own members was prepared to say, we will give you additional revenue if you will cut entitlements? >> absolutely. he knows it, i know it, everybody in the room knows it. >> i am ready to sit down with this president or the next president and have the same discussion we had last year and reach a conclusion, i understand full well that our friend on the other side live every day to raise taxes, i know that, i know it is important to them, they would argue we live to do something about the budget debt and the fiscal deficit, we don't do something about that, the spending and the revenue side -- >> almost 70 percent of the federal revenue is provided by
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the top ten percent of taxpayers now. between 45 and 50 percent of americans pay no income tax at all, we have an extraordinarily progressive tax code already. it is a mess and needs to be revisited again. >> rose: looking at ebb everything on the table. >> revenue from our point of view is tied to serious entitlement reform there is a way to get to the end here and to get an understanding that saves this country, but i will not make a commitment in advance about what i will or won't do. >> rose: but you are prepared for a grand bargain? >> i am prepared for a grand bargain. >> rose: and as a speaker. >> we are prepared to do a grand bargain, we have a to have a willing president -- you don't get knees deals done without a president who is serious about getting an outcome. >> rose: are you at one with the speaker and the republican leader in the senate? >> i don't think there is any debate about the need for more revenue the debate is how do you generate that revenue? i don't have -- i said this repeatedly, i don't have -- and i this at this way you generate revenue is
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there uh growth not through new taxes. >> rose: but that puts you at difference with them. >> it may, it absolutely might. >> rose: you heard them. >> then it does, i am not sure that's exac exactly what they my the grand bargain, i will tell you where i stand on it, a and where i stand is this, the way you generate more revenue for government is the way you do it is through more taxpayers, not more taxes, you find people job jobs, people people work and make more money at the jobs they make and pay more tax it is government takes that revenue and uses it to pay down the debt not to fro the government, that is write think i want us to focus and look here is a very telling thing that really struck me the other day, i finished care row's latest book and talks about -- >> rose: lyndon johnson. >> yes amount lyndon johnson and one of the things he took on was kennedy's tax cuts, and the reason why kennedy wanted to pass tax cuts is generate revenue what changed in the democratic party, president ken at this and president johnson believed the way they could generate the revenue for government they wanted in order to pay for the things they wanted to pay for is by lowering tax rates, why has that now
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changed? now i am no knot sayig that is necessarily the challenge today, i think more of a challenge than simply the rates today is stability in the tax code, a simpleness too the tax code, a compliability with the tax code and i wish we could spend time on tax reform. >> rose: and you clearly will, i mean, if you and others have their wish in the next senate -- in the next congress, take a look at this, this is jeb bush, former governor, who for his money you are the guy who ought to be on the ticket with mitt romney as he said repeatedly. screb bush. >> you in testimony before congress said that you are okay as crowell know, with $10 of spending cuts for $1 of tax revenue. >> yeah. >> rose: that is a different position than every republican candidate in the primary. >> i know. >> rose: get -- mitt romney and everybody else over here and jeb bush over here. >> i can appreciate why they are reluctant to say that because commitments on spending are, you know, hard to implement,
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commitments on raising taxes immediately happen. it just seems like historically you can have deep distrust that that that is, that that is the case so i can understand the caution in that regard but if you are asked a hypothetical question, which i was. >> rose: and which they were. >> they were. >> rose: and only you had i would say courage to say da i would go there. >> it was living proop. >> proof i am not running for anything. >> if they hadn't been running they might have said something different. >> i hope so because we have unsustainable deficits. >> rose: i haven't heard governor romney say i would take that position back, i would be prepared to raise taxes -- >> no, no. >> rose: if in fact we have $10 this spending cuts. >> this is where it gets dangerous i didn't say raising taxes. >> rose: raise revenue. >> this is a way to, eliminating deductions and things you can do. >> rose: but they are not even prepared to go there, because governor nordquist which you refused to sign says said that
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is not a logical way to go, he says that reducing deductions is raising taxes. >> here is what i know to be true, next year, or the year after, there is going to have to be a grand bargain, we are in an unsustainable course, it is not possible to continue to do what we are doing today, it is just not possible. >> rose: that is essentially -- yes he basically ends by saying, you can't go the way we are going now, it is impossible. >> that's right. >> rose: you can't change the economy without doing something. >> that is right, but i think look again that is a false choice that is constantly put on the republicans. this is about solving the problem, it is not about whether you will take $10 of cuts for $1 of taxes, it is what solves the problem, and i don't believe that tax increases create economic growth and i think there is no evidence for that that tax increases generate economic growth this is not an ideological objection or religious and moral objection, this is a practical objection to the fact that increasing taxes on anyone in america today is not going to lead to the kind of
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growth we need to generate the kind of revenue we all agree we need. >> rose: these have been conversations about what ought to be done, tell me what you think will be done about this fiscal cliff. >> well, i don't know, that is part of the things that troubles me because one of the things i talk about in the book that started me about the political process and i think i express a lot of frustration is the lack of urgency, this notion somehow, somehow things can wait to the next election, another month, another year and these issues can't wait and they need to be addressed now the longer we wait to address things like the fiscal cliff or entitlement reform or the long-term debt of this country the longer we wait to address these issues the more disruptive and more painful and less the solutions become and the less options we have so i hope to address them quickly i am not overly opt historic we will do it before the election but i wish we could. >> rose: can you imagine it being done before the election? >> look i think there are senators ready to act right now, i have startup 2.0, that we can't even get reaction on that,
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as the jobs bills, the second act of a jobs bill that passed this year and has some immigration reforms in it, a lot of reforms for the tax treatment of small startup companies, not all startup companies are small, but this is where the real net job creation happens is in the new startup companies and you create conditions in the tax code, it is a bipartisan bill, bipartisan agreement, we can't get any traction on the thing. >> rose: let's talk about cuba. that is also in this book. your father came from cuba went when. >> first time in 1956. >> and what happened? >> well, you know, like as i talk about in the book, not every immigrant story is one of instant success, they were discouraged and always hoped one of the thing we forget is cuba is 90 miles away from the united states, it is not halfway around the world and always had the hope things would get better in cuba and when they did you had the right to go back. >> when castro won they were hopeful and went back to --
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>> rose: and supported his over throw. >> i can't tell you definitively they were on either side of the debate, i knew havana was very unstable -- >> rose: they had no love for dictators. >> but again they were not politically involved in that way, but i think when fidel took over, they were hopeful, like most cubans in cuba had a new beginning. >> rose: was that a realistic idea at all. >> i wasn't around at the time. >> rose: but -- >> i think there was just this hope this would be different and if you listen to some of the things he said early on, he was a democrat and would have elections and rejected come in munism and all of these things and didn't turn out this way. >> rose: he said he never intended -- >> i don' i don't know what he d later he said a lot of things since then, my parents went back to cuba and as i detail in the book his brother told them don't stay, go home and never come back until this thing is done because these guys are up to no good and it is the best advice my parents probably ever had, my grandfather did go back, and he lived there for a few year and came back to the u.s. again in 1963 just a couple of months
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before the cuban missile crisis but the point is that my parents were impacted by that disruption and had to settle down here in the united states and make i think they knew, especially by the mid 1960s this is going to be home for quite some time and i was born almost a decade and a half after they came here, and i think what i tried to do in the book is explain to people that the american dream is many different facets for some people it is the ability to make a million dollars, for my parent, the american dream was their ability to leave their kids better off than themselves and never made a lot of money and weren't able to save for, you know, our college education but what my parents were able to do for us provide us a strong and stable home and the encouragement to dream big dreams. >> rose: is that american dream still live. >> it is, it is alive in the hearts of the people and still very possible, i think the job of government is to make it easier for people to pursue and not harder,. >> rose: do you do that by doing positive things or does the government do that by getting out of the way. >> i think through educational
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opportunities, basic infrastructure and the things of that nature. >> rose: so government, education, and proper are crucial items for the government. >> yes, and i think particularly education at the state level, and i did a lot of education issues when i was in state government i think at the federal level we set more broader themes and one of the things i would love to see do at the federal level i keep going back because it matters is create a predictable tax code, a predictable regulatory code, look i interact with people all the time who are first generation immigrants who have been here for five years and just started a business, what i remind people of all the time is big government doesn't hurt the people who have made it, they may not like it but if you are a big corporation, you may not like big government but you can afford to deal with it and hire the best accountants and lawyers and lobbyists. >> rose: and influence the system. >> and influence the system if you don't like the laws you can have them changes the guy who or gradual gal trying to make it and the business in the spare broom of the, bedroom of the home, they can't deal with the
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complicated tax code and harder for the worker to become an owner and the employee to become the employer, and i think those are important things for us to point out as we as republicans try to make an argument to people, particularly those of hispanic descents who are increasingly very entrepreneurial and looking for the upward mobility. >> cuba in terms of the embargo on cuba, would everybody have been better off if we didn't have the embargo? could it have changed the system internally in the same way, you know, that the soviet union imploded from inside? >> no, i don't think, so i think that all it would have done is further solidify the personal then situate of the government. >> rose: why so? >> with. >> rose: why would that make a difference? >> first now cuba has access to any product in the world and is flooded by americans. >> and new cars. >> they have a dysfunctional economy because they have incompetent leaders, the truth is cuba, people underestimate
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because they never experienced anything like it before, it is truly how controlling that government is of every aspect of life in you barks of every aspect of life in you barks it is startling how many people say i am going to cuba. >> rose: it is not the only government like that. >> it pay not be the only one like that but you asked me about cuba. >> rose: you are making that reason to separate cuba because it is like that when there are other governments who are like the cuban government we don't make, have that kind of embargo. >> i think they are especially good at it it is a country and island, hit rally and figuratively, it is easier to control a small island or a vast country like china for example, but in china they have access to internet although it is censored, in cuba no internet, none, and that is at least the pep don't, and so my point is that the cuban government controls everything, everything in cuba is manipulated if i got on an airplane tomorrow as an american and traveled to cuba my entire visit will be manipulated by the cuban government for purposes of what they want to accomplish. and i think as much as we are
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always asking when is u.s. policy toward cuba going to change, what about cuba changing toward us. >> rose: some think if it is more open it might help create the change, because of dengue pow ching, he changed china in part, did not change the political equation, that is what i care about in cuba is the political equation what matters for me is cuba is freedom. >> rose: it may very well have some impact on the political equation. >> but i think the evidence is not really compelling on that, because for example, china is open to the world, people can go into china today, americans can go into china any time they want yet it is an extremely oppressive government. >> rose: run by one political party. >> yes that increase my controls the economy as well as government owned companies, so my point is if economic openings were able to change the political reality of a country, russia and china would be much more democrat. >> my question is how has the
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economic embargo changed cuba? that is good for people of cuba? >> i think what it will bring is the ability, leverage point for us to negotiate with the successor. >> rose: oh, you mean -- >> successor. >> rose: it might work with raul castro or it might work with -- >> i don't think it will work with raul castro or the old men surrounding him. >> rose: but the successor -- >> nobody knows and that's the problem with cuba, the boston thing in cuba is a young talented political operator because they don't like those guys around, if you are 40 something-year-old who is bright and ambitious, you tend to disappear from the political spectrum in cuba because the regime is threatened by you, the truth is no one knows what comes after raul castro but our hope will come after is some group of people who are open to democrat opening in cuba wa because thats what i care about, a free cuban people can decide any economic model they want. >> rose: go ahead. it is said in iron, iran example, there is a very strong reform element, we saw that in various countries in the middle east there was a strong reform element, and the arab spring
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gave it momentum and gave it hope, gave it inspiration, it gave it a willingness to take a chance. >> yes. >> rose: can that happen in cuba or can it never happen as long as the castro brothers are in control? >> i think it is very difficult for it to happen as long as the castro brothers are in control unless and this what i said already, the internet, access to the internet would change cuba and bring a lot of the same ingredients into play that happened in iran and the arab spring, it doesn't happen without technology and without twitter, facebook, youtube, it just doesn't happen, and in cuba, again, people don't understand this, i think the latest figures are 80, 85 percent of the people have no access to internet whatsoever, they can't communicate with each other, if the cuban people had access to the internet there is no way the castro regime could survive. >> rose: what do you know about castro's health, fidel. >> i know nothing other than what is publicly reported. >> rose: do you believe raul is different from his brother. >> he is trying to figure out how they can keep political control while creating some sort
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of economic growth in that country and i think they are increasingly freshd by the reality venz well larks hugo chavez wins reelection or not cannot continue to afford to subsidize up to 40 percent of the economic. >> rose: if so, what happens. >> i don't know how venezuela can continue to subsidize cuba, those subsidies are 40 percent of the cuban examine economy. >> rose: and the support they were getting from the soviet union? >> yes, i mean, i don't know if it is to the same level but it the is certainly that important to them, right now, so much of the cuban economy is built around the sub su difficult and support venezuela gives cuba that won't continue one way or the other, so raul and the guys around him are trying to figure out how can we grow the economy without losing political control and they are walking a the tightrope to figure that out. >> rose: you are 41. >> yes, but i feel 42. >> rose: and a senator from florida. >> yes, sir. >> rose: you are a rising star in our own party, i would never venture forward to ask you about the vice presidency, period. i have tried that.
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do you want to be president? >> i don't have any ambition about a particular office in the future, one of the things, and as i talked about this in the book, one of this things that was really liberating for me when i was speaker of the house in the last two years i had nothing else to run for, i had nothing to run for and i think what industry learned in my time in watching others in politics is that when you are in office and you view it as a stepping stone to something else, you end up ruining your time there and ruining your chance at the stepping stone as well so here is what i do, i want to do the best job i can in the u.s. senate so my kids can be proud of my service, so i can do a service to this country, i am so greatful to, if if do a good job in the senate i think i will have an opportunity to do other things maybe outside of politics, i don't know but right now i am just focused on doing a good job in the senate and i really, really work hard not to think about any other particular specific opportunities down the road. >> rose: before we go although we talked about it in one way or another, i want through you to understand the rising influence of hispanics in america.
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>> i think the number one issue in the hispanic community is the desire to leave their children better off than themselves and the burning desire to basically do the things you weren't able to do in your own country, and to give your kids the opportunity to do things you didn't have. in essence you know you can only go so far because you don't have enough education you got here too late in life but your kids can be anything you want and you desperately want that for them if you are the children of people in that position you desperately want to fulfill your parent's am bys for you and make sure all of their hard work and sacrifices were not in vein. i think people need to understand what a strong sentiment that is among earns americans of hispanic descents and for republicans the opportunity opportunity to show the americans of hispanic descent how the american free enterprise system which i believe is what we support and i believe the democratic policies undermine that the american free enterprise system is the only economic system in the world where that dream even has a chance. >> by instinct do you believe that hispanics the and immigrants are more conservative
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on some right-left issue, for whatever reason? >> , you know, i think the traditional confines of american politics are hard to apply on a broad scale like that, what i would say is on certainly on the traditional family issues, immigrant communities very much so are in line with what you call a conservative -- >> rose: why is that? >> i think that is what people bring in their culture, i mean the latin cultures are very family and faith oriented certainly one of the fears i mention this is in the book one of the fears i come across with hispanics why while the family found prosperity in america the family seems weaker, the kids seem more spread out and the cultural influences. >> rose: so they want -- >> yes there is concern about that, and empowering ourselves economically, do we undermine ourselves culturally or from our family's perspective and worry about that, again i think that over comes is many instances but people worry about that, on a broader scale i think what is important to recognize is that this over well ping sense of wanting to do better than your parents did because they worked
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so hard so you could have that chance, is very real and the debate we are going to have over the next two decades is which party understands that and has ideas that further that and that's where i think republicans can really gain over the next 20 years among americans. >> rose: why isn't it president obama seems to be so far ahead governor romney in winning the approval and the possible vote of hispanics? >> well, some of it is just historical, i mean the reality of it is there are many hispanics in america that live, that are, for example, some are liberal democrats and that is just what they believe in addition to immigration, 50 other issues they agree with the democratic party upon and part of that is where you live, so i will give you a perfect example, cuban exiles moved to miami probably going to be republicans, disproportionately if they move to new jersey they are democrats. >> rose: if they move to los angeles? >> they move to los angeles, i don't know what the empirical received on that but the one that really strikes me is, if the cuban exiles, same experience, same background, same shared experience that brought them to this country moved to new jersey and registered democrat or moved to miami and registered republican,
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it is a factor of where you move, if you move to a community dominated by a political party you are more likely to register to that party and identify with it, party identity still matters to people and i think that is a factor in some of these figures, but to me the republicans effort to win support among americans of hispanic descent is not just about november, it is about ten, 20 year process of making our message something that appeals to people. >> rose: is it an inis ultimate to hispanics to suggest if anybody of a hispanic background would be a nominee of a party they would more likely bet their vote because of the shared affinity for their background? >> well, i understand where you are going with the question. >> rose: i am not -- >> here is what i would say, i am not, i am knocking on the door but not there. >> i don't think that alone is not a factor, i think the more important factor is do people running for office understand our experience and do they have policies that speak to our hopes, our dreams and our fears and our worries i think that is really what matters and i think for the republican party it would be a mistake to only view that through the lens of november, it is not about the
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nextive months but about the next 50 years, it is about ensuring that center right constitutional conservativism is a message that has a fighting chance even among americans of hispanic descent and that's a long-term commitment we have to commit to that message, it is not just about november. >> rose: i asked about your dad who passed away. >> yes. >> rose: how long ago. >> september of 2010. >> rose: so he saw it all. >> well. >> rose: he saw the american son become a united states -- >> well, he didn't live to november, he saw me win. >> the primary one of the anecdotes on the night of my primary i, my dad had been sick for a while and i went by to see him the day of the primary and my nephew answers the door with a big smile on his face and i asked him what is so funny, come on back and my dad got out of bed that day put himself in the wheelchair with the hopes of going to my victory party that night, as the night went on he wasn't able to do it he got weaker and couldn't go but tried one last time to make the sack ice for me the night oh, my
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primary and i talk about it in the book that obviously two weeks later he passed away from that moment so he didn't see me, he wasn't here to see me get elected in november of 2010, but i have a feeling he saw it nonetheless. >> rose: he didn't need television. >> he didn't need television, they have pretty good channels where he is. >> rose: the book again is called an american son, marco rubio, u.s. senator from florida, a pleasure to have you here. >> it is my pleasure. >> rose: thank you for joining us, see you next time.
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>> rose: funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company. supporting this program since 2002. and american express. additional funding provided by these funders. and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia and news and information services worldwide. be more,
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