tv PBS News Hour PBS April 14, 2014 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> woodruff: the escalating unrest in ukraine, stoked by pro-russian protesters, mobs and militants, spread to more cities in the country's east, threatening kiev's control of the region. good evening, i'm judy woodruff. >> ifill: and i'm gwen ifill, also ahead tonight: jeffrey brown reports from the asian nation of myanmar. a country taking small steps toward healing after years of war and rebellion. >> brown: not long ago, this was an area of violence. home to what was often called the world's longest-lasting civil war. but a cease-fire is now in place, offering the chance for peace and a possible model for this long closed-off country. >> woodruff: plus, the search for the missing malaysian
jetliner has turned to a robotic submarine to scour the ocean floor, diving some two-and-a- half miles under the sea. those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives.
>> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: wall street got the week off to a good start, as stocks recovered ground lost in last week's sell-off. the dow jones industrial average gained 146 points to close at 16,173. the nasdaq rose almost 23 points to close at 4,022. and the s-and-p 500 added nearly 15 to finish at 1,830. a powerful bomb ripped through a bus station in nigeria today,
killing 71 people and wounding 124. the blast in abuja was the worst terrorist attack ever in the african nation's capital. it destroyed dozens of buses and cars, and left charred, mangled metal amid the blood stains. president goodluck jonathan visited the scene and blamed boko haram, the islamist group that's killed thousands in nigeria's northeast. >> ifill: a wildfire burned for a third day in valparaiso, chile, as the military moved to evacuate 700 more families. the fire, which erupted saturday, has killed a dozen people, forced thousands to flee and destroyed 2,000 homes. firefighters worked through the night to contain flames being whipped by pacific ocean winds. today, air and ground crews tried to keep the blaze from consuming even more homes. >> ( translated ): it is very hard to be in a place where you grew up, played, ran, and had a
good time, shared with so many people and today no one has anything. to be burned like this, in ruins, it's as if a war has happened. >> ifill: the chilean forestry agency warned it could take another 20 days to extinguish the fire. syria has now shipped out about two-thirds of the raw materials for chemical weapons that it admits to having. but, the "organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons" said today damascus still has a long way to go to meet a june 30th deadline. a u.n. agreement mandates that syria's entire chemical stockpile be destroyed by that date. exposes on government surveillance won pulitzer prizes today for "the washington post" and "the guardian," in the public service category. their stories were based on leaks by edward snowden, a former national security agency worker. the "boston globe" won for breaking news coverage of the boston marathon bombing. "new york times" images of one boston victim's recovery took the feature photography prize. the times also won for breaking news photos of the mall attack in nairobi, kenya.
in the arts, donna tartt won the fiction prize for her novel, "the goldfinch." we'll have more on the continuing debate over those surveillance stories, later in the program. also ahead on the newshour: the widening unrest in eastern ukraine; a look at the deadly shootings near kansas city; myanmar tries to move on after years of rebellion; plus, the robot taking the search for the missing jetliner 15,000 feet under the sea. federal and state authorities continue their investigation today into the shootings in kansas that left three people dead. federal authorities confirmed it today, they believe the passover eve shootings at two jewish community sites were motivated by >> we have unquestionably determined through the work of
local and federal authorities that this was a hate crime. we needed the verification of some investigation to make this determination. it's more than just an opinion, it's actually a legal status. >> ifill: the suspect in sunday's shootings, 73-year-old frazier glenn cross, also faces state charges of first-degree murder. police say that cross is also known as frazier glenn miller, a former grand dragon of the ku klux klan. after his arrest, he yelled nazi slogans from a patrol car. the gunman's first target was a popular jewish community center, where two people died, a 14- year-old boy and his grandfather, who was dropping him off for a singing competition. they were not jewish. today the boy's mother, mindy corporon, spoke to reporters. >> people keep saying how come you're so strong and i'm strong because i have family, i'm strong because i have faith, i know that god did not do this, i know that there are evil, evil
actions but what we do have is each other, and we have love and we have prayer and we have friends. he was with us for wonderful 14 years he had really full life for a 14 year old, and we were very blessed. >> ifill: a theater coach says she huddled inside, in lockdown, for about 90 minutes with a group of children in her care. >> it was really scary, i thought that i was fine and under control and when i called my mom and she started crying and then i started crying i kind of just couldn't help thinking of sandy hook, looking around at these very young children, i was really scared. >> ifill: minutes later, a third person was killed outside a jewish assisted living center, about a mile away. she, too, was christian. in washington this morning, president obama joined in condemning the attack.
>> nobody should have to worry about their security when gathering with their fellow believers. no one should ever have to fear for their safety when they go to pray. >> we have to stand unioned against this kind of terrible violence which has no place in our society. >> cross has not yet appeared in court. formal charge kos come tomorrow. they have been keeping an eye on the suspect in this latest crime for some time. mark potok of the center has more about his history, and beliefs. he joins us from montgomery, alabama. welcome. so the authorities said today the federal authorities, u.s. attorney said this is definitely a hate crime. so start off for us, defining what that means.
>> well, a hate crime simply means a crime that is mood vated largely or in whole by a particular type of prejudice. it varies according to the state law but generally it's sexual orientation, race, religion, ethnicity, those kinds of things. so and the classic hate crime is where a person kills another person who he doesn't know at all. and that is precisely what appears to have happened here. it seems that cross allegedly murdered people simply because they were jewish or he thought they were jewish, wrongly. >> ifill: that's an important point, does it matter whether the victims were actually of the group that he was seeking to terrorize. >> that's right t has no legal meaning at all. it's simply what he thought he was doing. >> ifill: so tell us about franklin cross, what do you know? >> we have known him as frazier glenn miller before he apparently legally changed his name to cross. as a grand dragon of a group
called the carolina knights of the include klux clan in the early 80s. he later formed a group called the white patriot party. both of these groups were essentially klan groups but very para military in orientation. they marched through the streets with guns. they wore fat agencies that kind of thing. we got involved because we sued the white patriot party in the carolina knights over their intimidation of black people in north carolina, and also their operating of a paramilitary organization it turned out they were actually being trained and supplied with stolen weapons by active duty marines at ft. bragg. so it was quite a scandal at the time. ultimately glenn miller, agreed to break up his group to stop the paramilitary organization. he broke that agreement. was convicted of contempt, went on the lam and was a fugitive until the fbi found him in 1987 in a trailer filled with explosives, with
grenades, with weapons. and as it happens, also a plan to murder, to assassinate the founder of the southern poverty law center where i work, morris dees. thoughso that was our original encounter with glenn miller. >> ifill: so if it turns out he indeed is found guilty of a hate crime what is the penalty, more he is vore than if he was just found guilty of an attempted or committed murder? >> i don't think so. because i think in this case he can be charged under state law with a capital crime. the federal hate crime statute does not have i death penalty provision in any case. there are some civil rights laws that could bring the death penalty to bear but i don't think-- you can't get any worse than death and that is what he is likely going to be tried for in the state. >> ifill: it is easy to dismiss people who make these kinds of threats of simply being maybe not so simple, unbalanced.
how do you make the distinction about when they cross the line into being dangerous in a way they can help head off at the pass these kinds of attacks? >> well, two things. one, i think it's a mistake to describe all people in the extreme or even most people as mentally ill it that is a way of pushing the way and saying it really has nothing to do with-- in our society. the reality is our society is changing. we are becoming less white it that of course very much represented in the election of a black president. and people like glenn miller are reacting. now glenn miller is a particularly vicious and violent man. certainly in his rhetoric over the years and the kinds of things he's tried to do. you know, there really, but the reality, of course b somebody like glenn miller is that when he says that the world would be a wonderful place if only we killed all the jews, he is 100% protected by the first
amendment to the constitution. so it's very hard to look at someone like glenn miller who didn't do much for the last 20 years other than publish propaganda and say he looks like he is about to commit a mass shooting. i don't think there was really any indication that that was coming. >> ifill: for anybody watching who is a little confused, i want to be clear this man goes by a couple different frames, franklin glen cross, glenn miller, franklin miller so, everybody knows we're talking about the same person are. people like this always loners, individuals, or are there conspiracies we should be keeping an eye on or that you are keeping an eye on? >> much, much more often than not these days they are loners, so-called lone wolves. and that is largely because conspiracies tend to be found out so very quickly and often quite easyly by law enforcement. also conspiracies when actually a whole group of people actually plan a crime or domestic terrorist attack, they will very likely all go down, if even only one of
them is caught. so today almost all of these attacks, certainly the most dangerous attacks come from lone wolves or people with operating with just one or two friends like, for instance, timothy mcveigh and the bombing of the oklahoma city federal building in 1995. >> ifill: at what point, you mentioned tim knee mcveigh, that is an example. at what point do we begin to treat these kinds av tacks as domestic terrorism, not just as hate crimes or individual acts? >> well, i mean, they are domestic terrorism. let's be plain. there is nothing to distinguish this from other forms of terrorism. it is a way n this case. terrorizing the jewish community around kansas city in particular but around the country in general. and that's what terrorism is. it's a criminal act that is aimed at far more people than the immediate victims. you know, the law enforcement has been off and on about being candid about the terrorist nature of these attacks. but i think today by and large american law enforce
suspect perfectly well aware that there is a very serious domestic radical right and some people within that milieu are, in fact, terrorists. >> and we expect formal charges to be brought against him tomorrow. mark potok of the southern poverty law center, thank you very much. >> a pleasure, thanks for having me. >> woodruff: now, to ukraine, where the government in kiev appealed today for u.n. peacekeepers. that's after pro-russian gunmen defied demands to surrender. they now control key buildings in ten eastern cities. we begin our coverage with a report from lindsey hilsum, of independent television news. she's in ukraine. >> they may look like a disorganized mob but the authorities in kiev were sure that the men that attacked the police being today were acting on orders from moscow. the crowd that gathered was
enthusiastic, but western journalists were not welcomed. the police inside didn't get much choice. if they remain loyal to kiev they would be beaten up. the crowd chanted bring the real government. >> we demand the people's head of internal affairs in this region this is our only demand, for that person to support the people. all the heads of regional administration have switched to the size of the people and refuse to recognize the government in kiev. >> reporter: one of the intruders raised a russian flag and got rid of the ukrainian colors. >> a few streets away we saw a group of young men marching around town carrying the russian flag. people seemed unsettled by the turn of events that had no faith in the authorities in kiev. >> for sure they must consider the opinion of the people in the southeast. they put us down. we want them to hear our opinions.
we want a referendum and russian to be an official language. >> reporter: in the >> reporter: in the regional capital, a group calling itself the people's republic of donetsk has controlled the municipal building for more than a week now. the pro-russian groups occupying government buildings like this across the donetsk region took absolutely no notice of the ukrainian president's deadline this morning. that makes the authorities in kiev look weak. and if president putin's aim is to destabilize eastern ukraine, he's succeeding. they're calling for a referendum on donetsk becoming independent. sort of. >> i don't want listen kiev. i don't want to listen europe or united states. that's why. >> reporter: what about moscow? >> moscow, they are our brothers. >> reporter: at the entrance to the town of sloviansk, seized by pro-russian forces yesterday,
they believe they have god on their side. but if prayer is not enough, behind the barricades of tires, they had molotov cocktails at the ready. no need. there was no sign of the anti- terror operation to dislodge them, promised by the ukrainian government. the man in charge insisted that a local camera crew film us. it would be evidence, he said, if he took us to court for failing to tell the truth as he saw it. >> ( translated ): i speak russian. i live in russia, no, i, i mean in ukraine. look, the situation is as follows, there are too many provocateurs and that's why we duplicate the video of all the reporters who come here to film. so we can see if you change the information. and we will tell the whole world that yours is the worst channel. >> reporter: inside sloviansk, crowds gathered.
and the men in charge felt secure enough to hold a press conference. >> ( translated ): dear president of the russian federation, vladimir putin. we ask you to look personally into the current situation and help us to the extent possible. in a sign of unity of the two brotherly nations, we will raise the flag of donetsk republic next to the flag of the russian federation. >> nothing disorganized about those in control here. they were professional soldiers with all the-- and they looks uncanily like the men who seized in crimea in february just before a hastily organized referendum and annexation by russia. >> woodruff: president obama and russian president putin spoke by phone this afternoon, but the white house gave no details. spokesman jay carney did say the u.s. is looking for ways to support ukraine, but not with any kind of lethal aid. so who is behind these
separatist take-overs in eastern ukraine? for an assessment of the situation there we turn once again to adrian karatnycky, a senior fellow at the atlantic council. he just returned from a trip to ukraine earlier this month. and michael mcfaul was u.s. ambassador to russia from 2012 until this past february. he's now a professor of political science at stanford university. welcome to you both, adrian karatnycky, who are these people, they appear to be in came flouj uniformed, very well armed t seems orchestrated, what is known? >> it is already known because of-- conversations on their internal communications that have been revealed by the ukrainian security forces that these people are acting under the direction of russian minders. in fact, the person who orchestrated the political technologist who orchestrated the takeover of crimea is now their point of
contact. these people are perhaps perhaps some of them redeployed forces from crimea. there are not very many of them as yet. probably less than a couple hundred. they are not deployed in all the cities where there have been these kinds of takeovers but generally the typical pattern is 20 or so of these soldiers heavily armed, semi auction, auction weapons, grenade launchers moved quickly, lightning bolt speed. they overwhelm local police who basically are carrying pistols and light firearms. they immediately are followed by a group of 50 to 100 black masked thugs who are also, who probably are people who are used in the violence against the protest movement that brought down mr. yanukovych when thousands of these thugs and strong men and groups from criminal gangs were used to suppress and actually to abduct and to kill protestors. and then the third layer is a combination of i would say
fringe pro russian groups and fairly poor people who apparently are being paid about 50 dollars a day which is a lot of money in ukraine to come out and protest. and there are phone numbers that have been revealed and people have made phone calls, journalists to a number of people who are organizing these groups. they are offering money for participation. some people are participating legitimately but in most cases if you look at the crowds you're talking about 500 people, a thousand people. you don't have kind of the groundswell of the masses of the population in any of these city centers. and as importantly, in the main center in donest, you don't seem to have clearly the support of the political elites. the political elites are biding their time. i think they're using these protests to negotiate a stronger bargain with kiev. but i think they are playing with fire. basically i would say there is a substantial russian coordinated military and
paramilitary engagement. and i would believe that there may be a hand of mr. yanukovych and his former interior minister who built these networks of thugs to suppress protests and now are across the border 100 miles or so from the ukrainian border, and they, i believe, are helping to coordinate or in cooperation with russian security services and the russian military intelligence, helping to coordinate and to bring to bear all those assets in the service of this theatre and of this what i would call in some cases acts of terrorism. >> woodruff: adrian karatnycky, you answered several questions about how well organized it is and how much support there is among the general population. michael mcfaul what does this is a that russia wants, there are troops on the border but the russian leadership, we know putin and others have talked about
a federation. what system of government is russia looking for in ukraine? >> well, first and foremost, they're not looking for a system of government. they're looking for a weak government. they're trying to undermine what they consider what they call the il legitimate government in kiev. and they're being rather successful at it. as adrian i think very eloquently and comprehensively just described, this is a very effective campaign. and the governments in kiev now looks weak. people on the right are criticizing the government for being ineffective. and so what the long-term objective may be unclear. the short-term objectives are very clear that is to destabilize the government of ukraine. >> michael mcfaul staying with you, just to drill in on this a little bit more what is the difference between a government in ukraine, the russian kos live with and something they can't and won't live with. >> you know, i don't think vladimir putin knows the
answer to that question himself right now. let's be clear that he pivoted after a different kind of strategy that he was following for years, where he thought he could economically dominate all of ukraine. that fell through for him. and he then moved into crimea. and that was a tactical reactionary move. and for him it seems like it's been pretty cost-free so he is encouraged to go further. and i think that is what you are seeing in eastern ukraine right now. i don't want to pretend that i know his final outcome, what he says. i know what he says, which is they want a federal system of government; they want a government that listens to the people that speak russian and are ethnically russian in eastern ukraine but there are lots of ways that that could be done without military intervention. armed military intervention in eastern ukraine. >> woodruff: adrian car a at-- karatnycky, the government in kiev have several times given deadlines and those deadlines have passed. what ability do they have to
stop what is going on? >> i guess ukrainians don't have the tradition that these door roosevelt, speak softly and carry a big stick this he seem to be on facebook, posting and maybing all sorts of demands and they are looking very week. -- weak, i do think the ukrainian government does not want a bloodbath. i think they have already made, if they are kanl carrying out military and security operations in the coming days, i think they will only try to target people who are carrying weapons and take them out at points where there might not be large krousd of civilians. i think they are trying to be very careful not to provoke a bloodbath that might turn the population which at the moment is relatively passive in many of these places, very nervous. you have to remember these guys are not just coming in and taking over. they're creating their own governments. they're actually getting rid of people who are elected and who seem to have in most of these places enjoyed the
support of the local you know, the local citizenry. and now there's a sort of a breakdown of the delivery of services. there's a question of whether money will be coming to banks so people will not be able to cash their monthly pensions. an people are living marginally and for day-to-day. people are i think basically hunkering down and you know, and staying-- and staying at home. >> woodruff: finally to you michael mcfaul, where is this headed? >> well, i think it's a very dire situation. the government in kiev does not have good options as adrian just eluded to because they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. if they don't use action, they look weak. if they do use action that creates a pretext for further russian intervention. i think we're off to a very long, troubled standoff between russia and you crane. i'm very pmisistic about what's going on right now. >> woodruff: all right, on that note we thank you both, michael mcfaul.
adrian karatnycky, thank you. >> woodruff: in 2007, the world got a horrific peek inside the closed world of myanmar, the country formerly known as burma, as the military regime brutally crushed the saffron revolution led by monks and students demanding political freedom. in recent years, however, the government has signaled a new openness, promising democratic reforms, and proposing peace treaties with numerous ethnic groups in the country that have been at war with the government, in some cases since the end of world war two. jeffrey brown recently traveled to myanmar for a look. here's the first of his reports. >> brown: it is a land long shrouded in mystery. kept isolated from the world for more than 50 years. now, as myanmar begins to open up, its wonders and beauties become clearer.
but so do it's complexities and huge difficulties. one place to see it all is here in karen state in the southeastern part of the country. where signs of the past are a reminder of the tenuous political situation. not long ago this was an area of violence, home to what was often called the worlds longest- lasting civil war. as ethnic karen people fought the central government for independence. but a cease-fire is now in place, offering the chance for peace. and a possible model for this long closed-off country. >> brown: for these young girls, their faces adorned with the traditional tree bark cream that women here use as sun block. that means the possibility of coming to paan, karens capital city, to attend a government accredited school. these are the children of rebels who long battled that same government. and these girls have spent their entire lives in an internationally-sponsored
refugee camp on the nearby border with thailand. >> i know they've signed a cease-fire. >> brown: does that make you happy? >> if people aren't fighting and dying, that is much better. >> brown: the government is now seeking a permanent peace treaty here in karen and throughout the country. it wont be easy. burmans living in the central heartland make up the great majority of the country's population. but all around are lands occupied by numerous ethnic groups, more than 100 by some counts. many have been in armed conflict with the government. here in karen, at least, the rebels say they're ready to end that. >> ( translated ): this fighting that has gone on until now, we
see there's not benefit for our people. the people of karen have suffered. their villages were destroyed. >> brown: mann thein is a deputy with the karen national union, the political wing of the rebel group. a former fighter himself, he smiles as he tells us of his days chasing his enemy, the military government. >> ( translated ): it was not a game of chase like children play. it was one that involved guns and shooting. >> brown: but now, mann thein sits across the negotiating table from the very general he once fought. >> brown: do you trust the myanmar government and the myanmar military? >> ( translated ): in order for there to be trust, the trust must be built. just as we have to make them trust us, they have to do things to show that we can trust them. >> brown: a continuing area of violence, a religious clash between buddhists and muslims living in the western state of rakhine, has recently drawn
international attention. in january, the u.n. confirmed a riot that left 48 muslims dead. the government continues to deny the event occurred. another very real issue here: who gains from moves toward peace? while most people in karen are very poor, the area is rich in natural resources. and there are widespread reports of land grabs by government cronies. this woman, who raises pigs and sells soap outside paan, with aid from a micro-financing cooperative, was sure of one thing: >> ( translated ): peace only benefits those people with money, not poor people like me. >> brown: why not? >> ( translated ): from my perspective, peace means people with money just do business with each other, but it doesn't affect me. >> brown: it is, though, affecting many. in yangon, the country's largest city, there are signs of bustle and building, as foreign investors, sensing a new beginning for the country and
new opportunities for themselves, pour in money. president thein sein, himself a former general, has promised a disciplined democracy. under his tenure many, though not all, political prisoners have been released. and restrictions on the media have been eased. the moves were enough to cause the u.s. to lift most sanctions. and brought a visit by president obama last year, the first ever by an american president. >> considering the very rigid and military rule in the last 25 years, the extent of reform and what has been achieved in the last two years is quite remarkable. >> brown: min zaw oo is a director at the myanmar peace center in yangon. a government-appointed committee negotiating a national peace treaty. but he's also a former fighter against the government, who left
the country for many years and only returned 15 months ago. believing his former opponents are engaged in real change. >> what the current government is doing is opening up this process, so people can come and join the political opening and gradually steer the transition to broader participation and broader reform. this is the only opportunity in the last 50 years. >> brown: this is it. >> this is it. >> brown: will that road be taken by everyone? will this one be taken by anyone? one of the stranger sights in this country, or perhaps anywhere, is this nearly empty 20 lane highway in napidaw. the country's new capital, built in the hinterlands in 2005 by the military government. it was a hugely expensive
the highway leads to the new parliament building. where another sign of myanmar's change is on display: the presence of aung san suu kyi. the nobel peace prize winner, held under house arrest for 15 years, is now a member of parliament. and her party, the national league for democracy, has a chance to win a majority of seats in next year's election. but huge barriers remain: the constitution mandates that 25% of seats be held for the military. and bars aung san suu kyi herself from being president because she has family members, two sons, who hold foreign citizenship. her party wants the constitution amended. >> brown: so this is where you live when parliament is in session? zaw myint maung, who spent 18 years as a political prisoner, is today an n.l.d. parliamentary member. now sitting across the aisle from the former interior minister who jailed thousands of dissidents like him. >> what they did to us, we can forgive them. but what they did to the country, that is important.
>> brown: what about the future? are you hopeful? >> i cannot say much about the future. our party will try its best. the future is progressing. but if they do not amend the 2008 constitution, i think some unrest or some uprising. >> brown: really? that's possible again? >> that's possible. >> brown: what are the >> brown: what will happen next? how does a country transition from closed to open, from dictatorship to democracy? these young students at the yangon school of political science debated those questions recently. it was the first time in their lives, they told us afterwards, they could study politics freely. >> brown: has your life changed?
>> i'm a youth. i can have more employment opportunities because so many foreign companies are coming for investment in myanmar. >> brown: is it an exciting time? >> yes. it is exciting. and at the same time, its also nervous. because there are a lot of challenges. we have ethnic violence. so it's exciting but i feel nervous. >> brown: a country in a state of de-isolation. poor, ethnically divided, with a very troubled past. and a potentially booming future: exciting but nervous. >> ifill: tomorrow, jeff looks at what this new political openness means for myanmar's cultural heritage. and on our art beat page, you can read jeff's travel journal, which is part of his series, "culture at risk." >> woodruff: now, the search for that missing malaysian airliner.
it underwent a major shift today, as officials decided to give up listening for pings and start looking at the ocean floor. >> woodruff: for days, crews on the australian navy vessel, "ocean shield," had been preparing a u.s. navy robot submersible to go deep in the indian ocean. their chance came today, six days after the last known signal from what may be the plane's recorders. >> today is day 38 of the search. the guaranteed shelf life of the batteries on the aircraft black boxes is 30 days. >> woodruff: angus houston is running the search off his country's western coast. >> despite the lack of further detections, the four signals previously acquired taken together constitute the most promising lead we have in the search for mh-370.
we need to pursue this lead as far as possible. >> woodruff: as this animation shows, the submersible, bluefin 21, can create a 3-d sonar map of any debris on the ocean floor, but it's slow going. each mission can take up to 24 hours. and this first trip will cover only about 15 square miles, in a search area that spans some 18,000 square miles. >> i would caution you against raising hopes that the deployment of the autonomous underwater vehicle will result in the detection of the aircraft wreckage. it may not. however, this is the best lead we have and it must be pursued vigorously. >> woodruff: meanwhile, an aerial search continues, although officials say the chance of spotting any debris is increasingly unlikely. investigators are also analyzing a sample from an oil slick, but
that process will take several days. >> woodruff: now that the search has shifted, there are new questions people have about the submersive vehicle and its role. david kelly is the c.e.o. of bluefin robotics, which makes the bluefin-21 welcome to the newshour, give us a sense of the task that this robotic device is being asked to perform. >> well, judy the vehicle is rated to 4500 immediaters of depth which is two and a half miles down which is about the depth of the ocean in this area. and it will go on a series of dives to survey the ocean bottom and come back with imagery that can then be analyzed to see if there are any objects of interest. >> woodruff: how does it go about doing its job? i mean we showed some of the visual animation there. but once it gets to the bottom or chose to the bottom, how does it operate? >> well, the vehicle is what
is called autonomous. there is no operator in the loop. so it is programmed on the surface for the area to be surveyed. the vehicle will descend down the two and a half miles. it has navigation instruments on board so it knows where it is. as it approaches the bottom it will stop about 50 meters above the bottom which is a good surveying height and it will ton on the sonars and image the area. and the sonars can image about half a mile acrossment and it will run parallel lines just like are you mowing your lawn and it will go back and forth overlapping. and then that data will be collected on the vehicle. and when it returns to the surface the data is offloaded. the batteries on the vehicle are changed, another mission is programmed. the vehicle is relaunched and meanwhile the data that has been recorded from the prior mission is processed and analyzed looking for objects. >> and again these are sonar images that it's bringing back. >> that's correct. at that depth it's pitch-black. it's slightly above freezing. there's tremendous pressure
and the best sensor to scan a large area is a sonar so these are images that are painted with sound, so the objects look slightly different than if you were looking at it with a came rament but the analyst can still see whether an object is man-made or part of the natural surroundings and that is the key point that they would be looking for. >> you mean by the shape of it? >> correct. most of the objects in nature are going to be rounded. you can tell the bottom and most man-made objects will have some sharp edges or right angles and those are show up on the sonar imagery. >> woodruff: how durable is the submersible. what do you worry about it running into problems it could run into down there? >> it's a very harsh environment. and pressure is the biggest issue. at that depth the pressure is about three and a half tons per square inch that would be the equiv len of hafing a cadillac escalate balanced on your thumbnail. so there is tremendous pressure on the vehicle and the equipment testimony is a tough environment to operate in. >> woodruff: we've also read,
david kelly that there is some silt in this area, very fine sand or something like that. what is known about that and how much of an issue is that? >> we have run our vehicles around the globe and almost all the oceans across many bottom type. silt is one type of bottom. there is mud, there is sand, there is rocks am will you get different sonar returns from the different bottom types am you can adjust the equipment to deal with that. so again it's environments we've seen before. >> woodruff: so if something is under the silt or has sunk into the silt it could still image it s that what you're saying? >>. >> well, the sonars that are used would image on the surface of the silt. so if an object was down below the silt it wouldn't necessarily be imaged. >> woodruff: what happens next? if it comes back with an image that is interesting, that people, that the experts think could be something, what happens then? >> i think probably most
likely the next step would be go get a camera image of it. the bluefin 21 that is deployed does have a camera payload. it's a high definition still camera. typically when we image an area on the ocean bottom we would reduce the size of the area to about 100 meters square, a hundred yards square. they also could send down an rov or remotely operated vehicle with a camera. but most likely they would want to get a camera image of an object to compare that with the sonar image, to understand what they have. >> woodruff: do i understand you to say that could be taking a picture, a photo at the same time it is down there doing the sound images. >> no, those are two separate pay lods. they're swapable, easily changed on the ship. but only one of the payloads can operate at a time. and it has to do with the difference in height that the vehicle runs at. so when are you collecting sonar imagery the higher off the bottom at about 150 feet, when are you taking a camera image light doesn't go very
far at that depth and in that darkness so you need to be much closer to the bottom, about 15 feet. >> woodruff: based on what you know, how realistic do you believe the odds are that you're going to be able to find what's left of this aircraft? >> well, this is a tough challenge and we salute the men and women that have been working for a month to resolve this mystery. they have over time have worked to reduce the search area. they're now focusing the vehicle on those kerrs that they think have the most promise. but i think in reality this is a tough problem. it's going to require persistence and tenacity and i think people need to understand it could take weeks, could take months. it may be tedious on the outside but you have to follow a regimented well-planned search and just doing matically execute it. >> woodruff: david kelly with blue froin otics, we thank you for helping us understand what is going on. >> thank you
>> ifill: today's pulitzer award to "the washington post" and "the guardian" renewed debate over journalism's role and responsibility in reporting on domestic surveillance and national security. the coverage was based on a trove of documents leaked by national security contractor edward snowden, who now lives in russia to escape prosecution. u.s. officials say snowden's revelations did real damage, while his defenders say he performed a public service. geneva overholser joins me now. she's an independent journalist in new york, and a senior fellow at the university of southern california's annenberg center on communication, leadership and policy. she also served on the pulitzer prize board for nine years. geneva is the pulitzer board basically settling the argument today by saying that they're going to award this coverage. >> i with say that the argue
will not be over at least in terms of many people's continued discomfort with this reporting. but i do believe this is an extromly powerful affirmation of this important work. you know, director and national intelligence james clapper as you know not happy with this important work. he was quoted just yesterday at the university of georgia saying this is potentially the most damaging theft of intelligence material in our country's history. so what is the correct balance between security, transparency and journalism. >> there's always attention and always will be. and because even the most rabid of reporters understand that there are national security issues that cannot be aired. but we have been seeing the growth of government surveillance, of its own citizens particularly of the growth of secrecy. for many years, particularly since 9/11. and what happened in this
case is that journalism's biggest prize went to a series of stories based on stolen documents, and certainly as you said, the revelation of state secrets, decried by the white house. but i think therefore putting squarely behind these stories the american establishment of journalism and saying this is in the public interests. >> ifill: you mentioned journalism based on stolen documents, reminded me of the daniels-- daniel elseberg case. >> exactly. >> an in 1972 the same thing happened. the pulitzer board very controversialally then gave the pulitzer to the reporting by "the new york times" on the pentagon papers. and you know, that was the first time that had happened. so they have sort of already crossed that bridge about being willing to give the prize based on stolen
documents. >> ifill: what did journalists say to critics who say that edward snowden, well, actually the glenn greenwald at the guardian and at the post basically agoed as stenographers for edward snowden? >> wbltion you know, i don't find a whole lot of value in that, cha. it is true that these documents came to them, they -- have to go out and do a lot of deep reporting. on the other hand, lots of good reporting is based on leaks, particularly in these areas like national security. so if this report, i mean if this prize were given only, you know, for really deep digging reportedding than it would be misplaced, but it's not it was awarded to the most affecting story of this year, in my view. and this story had enormous impact. there was a white house review. the president himself has said there needed to be stepped taken in terms of reigning in the national security agency there have been legal statements saying
that what was revealed in these documents was unconstitutional. so i think that the story had plenty of impact and to quibble about well, did they do enough reporting is just wrong. there was plenty of good journalism that went into this. a choice is made the way it was presented. and very interestingly, the collaboration of not only journalists. as you know this went to two news organizations and several individuals. >> can reports ever be, you have been involved in giving out these kinds of prizes for some time. can reporters ever be considered accomplices in a case like this and is it something that even factors into your thinking? >> well, that's an interesting point. i mean you know, reporters are accomplices in that they are the ones who reveal this information. they, of course, are not criminally liable the same way that edward snowedin who shared the information is. and many people think that a grave injustice. this could not have happened without snowden and many see
this as a vindication of him. we'll have to see what happens on that regard. but particularly in terms of glenn greenwald who as you know is involved in the guardian story. and who is frankly, a journalist who writes from a point of view. and i think that's another interesting thing about this story, that that kind of reporting has received an affirmation. it is an increasing-- we're going to see more of it. and the pulitzer included his work. >> ifill: well, that reminded me of wikileaks and julian a sang and other ways of getting information not public sphere which caused controversy. is there a line any more between activism and journalism in. >> well, many people would say this was activism. some people would say all kinds of journalism is activism. i think that one reassurance here, i done know if there is a line but in this case, what we saw was a collaboration as i said that
included professional journalists at the highest standards, "the washington post," the guardian. these are very responsible news organizations. so has a news organization leak the guardian ever received a pulitzer prize before. >> strictly speaking that want to the guardsian u.s. that is how it fit the rules but as we all know the guardian which is based in the united kingdom as been doing very aggressive journalism on this. and you know in some ways interesting lee teng-hu teng-hui-- interestingly, the collaboration helped it avoid censorship in the united states-- i mean in the u.k. because the reach of this journalism has been so to we areful. >> ifill: so interesting, again evera overholzer, thank you so much for helping us through this. >> thank you so much, gwen. >> woodruff: again, the major developments of the day. the government of ukraine appealed for u.n. peacekeepers,
as pro-russian gunmen controlled key buildings in ten eastern cities. stocks recovered some of the ground they gave up last week. the dow industrials gained almost 150 points. and organizers of the search for a missing malaysian airliner deployed a robot submersible to begin hunting on the indian ocean floor. >> ifill: on the newshour online right now, the latest u.n. climate change report predicts massive policy changes will be needed if the world is to curb it's carbon emissions. are there solutions in sight? hari sreenivasan invited one of the authors of the report to a google hangout yesterday. you can watch a video of that interview on the rundown. and, one year after the boston marathon bombing, two brothers who each lost a leg in the attack talk about their struggles and triumphs these last twelve months, with our member station w.g.b.h. that conversation is on our homepage. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. >> woodruff: and that's the
newshour for tonight. on tuesday, we'll look at the future of myanmar's architectural and archaeological past, as the country opens up to the outside world. i'm judy woodruff. >> ifill: and i'm gwen ifill, we'll see you on-line, and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us.
>> at bae systems, our pride and dedication show in everything we do; from electronics systems to intelligence analysis and cyber- operations; from combat vehicles and weapons to the maintenance and modernization of ships, aircraft, and critical infrastructure. knowing our work makes a difference inspires us everyday. that's bae systems. that's inspired work. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs
report" with tyler mathisen and susie gharib. >> the bulls are back for one day. citigroup surprises the street with better than expected earnings, put investors in a buying mood. will the optimist continues with results from southeast biggest companies hit the street. super salary. which ceos are bringing home the biggest paychecks. we have the names and the numbers. managing your nest egg. piaa already a retirement agent. will their deal pay off as a way to woo more savers. all that and more for "nightly business report". >> good evening everyone. a beautiful spring day