tv Charlie Rose PBS January 31, 2015 12:00am-1:01am PST
>> charlie: we can withum to the program. we begin this evening with super bowl xlix which will be played sunday night. we start with bill cowher the coach of the pittsburgh steelers took his team to the super bowl twice and here is his analysis of the upcoming super bowl competition. >> don't kick off till 6:00 you're sitting in your hotel, can't escape the pre-game shows. find a good movie on the movie channel, watch it for in the morning, then you can clear your head, and once you get through the stadium you can feel the buzz and excitement. there will be a lot of nervousness. these two teams have been there. that will make ate special game because i think we have the two best teams and coaches in football and i think we may have the two best quarterback playing at this time and having played this year. so this is a classic matchup. >> charlie: from the site of
the game, rachel nichols of cnn. >> we've had deflategate deflategate, deflategate for what seems like years but only 10 or 12 days really going into the game. the only way i see it really impacting the game sunday is to help the new england patriots. that team thrives on the us against the world mentality. you can bet bill belichick will be playing a clip wheel. other former players and announcers et cetera, are saying the patriots cheated to get to the super bowl and maybe didn't deserve that place and he will tell his team that you need to go out and show everybody that you do inside deserve to be here. if you beat the seahawks on a fairfield, no one will question you. >> charlie: we talked toll jeanine poggi about the advertisements.
>> over 112,000 people watched the game, the only time people sit to watch the commercials. every other time, people dvr the tv shows skilling the commercials, no one wants to watch brand messaging except in the super bowl. south a really great platform. >> charlie: this evening bret bret of the "wall street journal" talking about his new book america in retreat, the new isolationism and the coming global disorder. >> america and american leaders, whether obama and whoever his successor is going to be, ought to come up as a matter of priority sometime in december 2016 before he or she takes office and say what are the five things as president i must not allow to happen? one i would argue is the nuclearization of iran. another would be -- >> charlie: even if in the end it needs attacking, iran with its nuclear capacity. >> absolutely because a nuclear iran means a nuclear saudi arabia, perhaps a nuclear turkey then a middle east with four, five or seven six nuclear
powers, each with daggers drawn. >> charlie: we conclude with riccardo muti the conductor of the chicago symphony orchestra. >> fiction doesn't exist. you can try all your life to discover some of the truth that is in a score so you are faithful to what is written in the score but this is just one part of your work. but behind the notes, you have the universe the truth with the capital "t," and you cannot possess, you cannot reach that point because if you are able to know the universe behind the note, you are good. >> charlie: all about the super bowl, bret stephens and riccardo muti when we continue.
>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: super bowl 49 kicks off this weekend at the university of phoenix stadium in arizona. the seattle seahawks are looking to defend their title and the patriots are looking to overcome controversy and cement their status as one of the most successful teams in n.f.l. history. joining me by phone is cbs analyst and former head coach of the steelers bill cowher. he has been to the super bowl.
there is no one i would rather talk to about a super bowl game than bill cowher. i begin with one question. tell me how you see this game in terms of the big matchup. >> you know charlie, i think it's a really great matchup. number one, when you look at it i think you have the most diverse offense in football in the new england patriots. we've watched them sit there and with tom brady spread the ball to players and without a doubt the kind of guy that gets them going is rob, the big tight end they line him up everywhere. then we see them pound the ball. you talk about the diversity going against the best defense in football, that being the seattle seahawks. >> charlie: what makes seattle the defense team that it is? >> well, i think when you look at them defensively it's that secondary. again, when you look at the secondary, you're talking about richard sherman probably the best corner in football.
but those two safety to me i think are the best pair of safety. you talking about chancellor and thomas and the things that they can do is they're big, they're strong. i think you can go see chancellor trying to cover rod, but they're great tacklers. that's one thing you watch when you see seattle is you don't see a lot of big plays because they can tackle very well. linebackers wagner may be one of the best linebackers in the game and certainly with their ability to put pressure with the up front people, michael bennett and avriel, they play very efficiently. >> charlie: there are a couple of good runningbacks in this super bowl. >> i think it's a game for the seattle seahawks. one of the big keys is not to get mind. mar shawn lynch is definitely the fog within what they try to do. he sets the tone and the running
game is big. you look at guys like doug bald within, he's going to playit big in this game because they will have to throw the ball. jermaine, a true receiver no one's heard much about. but with russell wilson and his feet and he can make plays on his feet, the biggest thing for new england is keep him in the pocket. it has to be important for seattle to establish the running game and play action game with russell wilson. >> charlie: you said while we know this is a great offense against a great defense the patriots against the seahawks, it may very well turn out the game is determined by the reverse circumstances, the seahawks offense and the patriots defense. >> yeah, when you look at the patriots defense, the guy to me you have to keep an eye on is jamie collins. he's such a versatile line bakr for them. you can see him rush and i think
you can see him spying a guy like russell wilson. when he gets outside the pocket, russell wilson is very, very dangerous. the matchup of dorell reeves. who is he going to get matched up on? he's good in the secondary. the big key big vince, you will watch him warming up, the guy with probably the biggest belly in the field, he will see a cog in the middle of the defense. so collins, it will be important they can take down the first running game of lynch because if they can run the football, that being seattle, it opens up all the other elements. the defense of the new england patriots and the offense of the seahawks could be the side bar to this game. >> charlie: i can't imagine what it would be like to be a coach or a team heading into the super bowl but i would assume everybody that's part of the game is saying let the games begin.
>> yeah they're enjoying it. if you get closer you feel the magnitude. the longest day and i have been there twice as the super bowl head coach is the game day. you don't kick off till 6:00 you're sitting in the hotels and everyone is starting the pre-game shows and you can't escape it. best thing is to find a movie watch it for the morning clear your head and then when you get in the stadium, you can feel the buzz and the excitement. there will be a lot of nervousness, but we have the two best teams in football, the two best coaches and may have been the two best quarterback playing at this time and having played this year. so this is a classic matchup. >> charlie: thank you for taking time to talk with us. >> always a pressure. i love watching games with you, charlie. do it again. >> charlie: i was going to say that! when we come back, rachel nichols, sports reporter for cnn. >> charlie: so on friday as we approach game day sun day, what
is the big story? >> you know, we've had deflategate, deflategate deflategate for what seems like years but has only been about 10 or 12 days going into the game. the only way i see it impacting the actual game sunday, though, is to help the new england patriots. this is the team that thrives on the us against the world mentality, and you can bet that bill belichick will be playing his team a clip wheel of aflouncers commentators, other former players saying the patriots in some way cheated to get to the super bowl, that maybe they don't deserve or earn that big place in the game and he will tell his team you need to go out and show everybody that you do indeed deserve to be here. if you beat the seahawks on a fairfield, then nobody can question you. so it will be extra motivation for the patriots. don't think it will affect the seahawks and we know the footballs will be properly inflated, the n.f.l. is making sure of that. >> charlie: is there some
momentum for the seattle seahawks because they came from behind to win two weeks ago? >> absolutely, and that takes on the personality of their coach. pete carroll is fascinating. he is a maverick a different guy and has a relentless optimism about him. i sat down with him recently and asked him, your wife, the people around you are they ever annoyed at how chipper you? he said, yes, absolutely they're telling me all the time knock it off, but i just always think things will get better and has transmitted that to his team in. the fourth quarter when they were down by dibble digits, they were able to talk to us and say we'll still win this. you normally wouldn't hear that from an n.f.l. team in that position but they absolutely believed they were going to come back in that game and there would be no point sunday against the patriots where if they fall behind it, they don't believe they have the momentum to continue to win and that is a dangerous weapon.
>> charlie: should we expect a big game from russell wilson? >> he has a lot to amend for a terrible first half and third quarter of the championship game and he wants to make up. lynch running on the ground versus him who can move his feet well is dangerous opens up play calling for the seattle seahawks. so he's coming out fired up. you talk about legacies, charlie, if he goes throw for throw against manning and the broncos last year and beats tom brady and the patriots this year, that's pretty impressive on the resume. >> charlie: off to a good start in an n.f.l. career. finally richard sherman. is he going to be there? >> yeah. you know richard sherman is very funny. his girlfriend is nine months pregnant with their first child it's going to be a son, and he's pointed out look, she is not due for another week or two and he said he's had some conversation with the unborn son in her belly. he's told that son to "do him a solid" and stay in there for
another couple of weeks. so he's not expecting this is an imminent problem. all that said, we know how pregnancies work and if she ends up in the delivery room sunday, they made allowances and make sure she has the right doctors around her and he will have to decide in the moment about going to the game versus being with her in labor. knowing richard he'll try to do everything. they've said whatever decision he wants to make no penalties or pressure, but i think we'll see him at the game. >> charlie: often it is said about great games that it depends on the team that makes the fewest mistakes. who has the potential to create the most mistakes? >> you know what? the seahawks play a dangerous defense, so sometimes there's big risk/reward there. but these are well coached teams. i don't expect a sloppy play. last year was a blowout. we didn't know that ahead of time. we hope going in this will be a
legitimately close game. you have two excellent teams. hopefully a down to the wire game of the fourth quarter. >> charlie: wish i was there. we wish you were too. come out, still time. >> charlie: super bowl xlix will take place this sunday night in glendale, arizona. the new england patriots led by tom brady will play the seattle seahawks led by russell wilson, over 100 million viewers are expected to warchtion some tuning in just for the commercials. jeanine poggi is joining me a television reporter at "ad age magazine." i am please to have had her here. i love these commercials as so many people to. $4.5 million for -- >> 30-second spot. >> charlie: why do they do it? well, think about the reach. over 112 million people watched the game last year. the one time of year people actually sit to watch the
commercials. every other time you've people d.v.r. tv shows skipping over the commercials, no one wants to sit and watch grand messaging except during the super bowl so it's a great platform. >> charlie: last year i think the super bowl was the number one television show of the year. >> yes. >> charlie: and i expect this year because to have the matchup we have. budweiser a traditional big advertiser. they do things i love because i love animals. take a look at this what we now know about one of their ads in the super bowl. here it is. ♪ ♪ when i wake up ♪ ♪ when i go out, yeah i know i'm going to be ♪ ♪ i'm going to be the man who
goes along with you ♪ (singing) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> charlie: doesn't get any better than that if you love animals. >> really doesn't. >> charlie: then there was a controversy about go daddy. what was that about? >> making fun and poking fun at budweiser and use of puppies in the super bowl in the past couple of years and just the general use of puppies in super bowl commercials. >> charlie: but then. but then go daddy tried to spoof this and had their own lost dog trying to find its way home. it comes running up to the owner
and she's relieved to see it but not for, you know, the reason that everyone would think owners are relieved to see their dog. >> charlie: let's take a look. here it is. ♪ >> it's buddy! i'm so glad you made it home! because i just sold you on this web site i built with go daddy! ship him out! >> get your domain and web site all in one place. >> charlie: go daddy pulled the ad. >> they pulled the ad and are replacing it with another ad they said would make us laugh. they didn't realize how upset people would be over this poor dog being sold online. so they realize social media has a great way of giving a brand telling a brand what they need
to do. >> charlie: traditional advertisers of automobiles as well, they're coming back to the super bowl. >> not as strong. we're not seeing as many automakers in the super bowl this year. about seven name plates confirmed. there were eleven last year. in the last couple of years there were a glut of automakers but we'll see fewer ad commercials this year. >> charlie: here is one. ♪ a child arrived the other day ♪ came to the world in the usual way ♪ ♪ but planes to catch and bills to pay ♪ ♪ he learned to walk while there was a way ♪ >> charlie: >> charlie: that's nissan. they're not going to release it, not releasing the full ad till the game airs. >> it's a big advantage for them to release it before the game because they had a lot of people talking about it. >> you see all the hashtags tied
to the ads paying $4.5 million for an ad, you want to get the most bang for your buck. >> charlie: a good year for fathers. fathers are being honored by commercials correct? >> yes. so we're seeing the son is one of them with dads. and a couple of others also celebrating fathers and what it means to be a modern man chiming in on the conversation where more women in the workforce, more stay at home dads participating in the household, playing on that conversation and wanting to be culturally relevant in the conversation. >> charlie: there are also new players this year. we talked about automobiles and beer. there are new players this year who are coming for the first time. there's something about avocados. >> yes, we have 15 new players this year, at least coming in, which is up from about 10 last year. avocados from mexico being one of them. they're the marketing arm for the produce in the u.s. so an interesting one, and one that, you know, we haven't seen
advertised on tv much, so will be some cute ones coming in. >> charlie: take a look at avocados. ♪ >> with the next pick in the first draft ever australia selects the kangaroo. >> yeah, i like that pick. jump vertical -- brazil selects the sloth. off the field issues. not a locker room guy. the united states selects wheat. >> wheat. madagascar selects lemur! china ginkgo. botswana selects the zebra. (audience booing) with the next pick we have a trade, traded for the dodo bird. and mexico selects -- the avocado! >> great pick! that makes a ton of sense!
rich soil. >> perfect weather. making avocados from mexico the ideal year around snack. >> avocados from mexico! >> charlie: everything an ad should do. >> great time for it. i think it will catch attention. >> charlie: when you see the quality and creativity high quality ads this year. >> yes, there are great high quality ads. mcdonald's released their first ad since 2008, so they're rejoining the super bowl and it sort of banks on their coming -- piggy banking off their lovin' it campaign they released recently and sort of playing on the seventy mental value of ads. >> charlie: i assume beyond the super bowl these ads can run for a while on television and other places on social media. >> absolutely. they use the super bowl as launch uppad. if you're release ago new campaign and product it's a good place to launch it.
ettes a great place to start. >> charlie: thank you. good to have you here. backwe'll be back. stay with us. >> charlie: bret stephens is here. editor of the "wall street journal" from 2002 to 2004. was editor and chief of the jerusalem post-. awarded a pulitzer prize for his commentary in 2013. in 2012 wrote an article for commentary magazine which just expanded into this book called "america in retreat: the new isolationism and the coming global disorder." i am pleased to have him at this cable. welcome. >> good to be here. >> charlie: what do you mean america is in retreat? >> look, i think president obama came to office very clearly telling americans that what he wanted most of all was nation building at home and there was a policy, in fits and starts, no question with some exceptions,
in which american policy was about pulling back from different corners of the world. we wanted out of the middle east because we thought no good could come from engagement, involvement, certainly not intervention in the middle east. the problems like syria, iraq really had no good solutions and not much upside to the united states being there. >> charlie: do they have good solutions now? >> no, but this is an important point and goes back to some of the problems in the bush administration. we can not solve the middle east problems, the israelian-palestinian conflict, we can't liberalize or make a democracy out of iraq off, we can't put the humpty dumpedy of syria back together. >> charlie: can or cannot? we cannot. >> charlie: all right. but we can try to keep our nightmares at bay. a smart foreign policy is not about making dreams come true it's.>> charlie: the president said the most important thing is don't do something stupid. >> that the the hip contract oath in foreign policy. this is different. american leaders whether obama
or his successor, ought to come up as a matter of priority sometime in december of 2016 before he or she talks office and says one of five things as president i must not allow to happen, one i would argue is nuclearization of iran, another -- >> charlie: etch if in the end it needs attacking, the iranian nuclear capacity. >> absolutely because a nuclear iran ultimately means a nuclear saudi arabia, perhaps a nuclear turkey, then a middle east with four or five or even six nuclear powers each of them with daggers drawn -- >> charlie: a chance of mishap, and a misunderstanding leading to a nuclear exchange. >> imagine if saudi arabia iran and israel all have gnarl weapons say five years into the future. are the israelis aallied with saudi arabia in the arrangement against iran? they are today. >> for purposes of convenience but that's not exactly a marriage of ideology, true
hearts and minds. so the possibility of a dynamic instability is just a terrifying for any american present to behold. you think about the cold war where you had a symmetrical balance of terror between the u.s.a. and u.s.s.r., and that was complicated enough to manage. now imagine the most volatile fanatical region in the world with five nuclear powers each trying to calculate should i strike first, wait, form an alliance, what would the effect of the alliance be, guilty be like europe on the eve of the first world war. >> charlie: what do you think is the most likely development with respect to iran and its desire for nuclear potential? >> well, i think there's no question the iranians are not really interested in a final deal. rather there is no final deal that america could offer iran that iran is prepared to accept in part because i don't think the iranians feel they're going to face serious consequences, at least from this administration. so my prognosis is that they are going to kick the can down this
road at least through 2017, at least through the end of the obama administration they will extend and extend the joint -- the interim nuclear agreement. but as the british prime minister said about politics what does he fear the most? events, dear boy, events. and there are events. the israelis will sit still for only so long. this is a dynamic, fluid situation where things can happen in unexpected ways, and what i worry about for america is that as we have retreated from many places, we are creating kind of systems of dynamic unpredictability. >> charlie: when you look at the world today, what role do you think china wants to play? >> well, china is very much i think like germany before the first world war. it wants its place in the sun. it wants to be recognized as a leading if not the leading power in the world. but it doesn't know what that power ought to be about.
it is a fundamentally insecure country and that is why i think you see this odd quality to chinese foreign policy. it is demanding respect but respect exactly for what, isn't clear. my great fear with the chinese isn't so much that they will continue to rise economically but that that rise will slow in a way as to create a fatal gap between the expectations of the chinese people and what the communist party is able to deliver. >> charlie: and rise in nationalism as a result. >> precisely right. >> charlie: the united states i'm always wanting to understand, what is the quarrel with the president in the context of foreign affairs? we know that at the time of syria when he did not strike when he was going to go to congress and didn't strike and it was said that the red line that they passed the red line and we didn't, yet at the same time you had benjamin netanyahu and others saying, well, that in the end was smart. >> what benjamin netanyahu says
and what he thinks may be two different things. the israelis are nervous about what they say in public about american foreign policy because they have been taken to the woodhouse one time too many. but, look, i think what happened in syria was momentous and was momentous in two respects. a president who repeatedly announces a red line -- and we can have a discussion about whether it was wise to announce the deadline, but, nonetheless it was there, he said it again and again -- and found a way to walk away from the red line in the face of 1,000 or so people dying of sarin gas sent a terrible signal not just with respect to syria but with respect to the rest of the world, because this is the same president who has been saying iran with a nuclear weapon is unacceptable to him. so it sends a cue, a signal to the world's revisionist regimes countries who want to revise local orders, that america's word, the president's word is
not altogether serious that there are no consequences if they misbeehive. >> charlie: is that what israelis believe about this president? >> i think there was a turning point in september 2013. if before then you ask most israeli senior decisionmakers, they will say in the final analysis this president will act to prevent iran from getting a nuclear weapon. after 2013 the consensus view is he will never act. it creates two problems. on the one hand, the world's rogues think they can do what they want without consequence from the united states. on the other hand, our traditional allies not just israelis, but the saudis, taiwaneses, central europeans start to need to think about devising a foreign policy in a post americana world. and we are better served when the little countries choose not to freelance their foreign policy. the israel were to strike iran, it might cause us to become
involved in a manner in time not of our choosing. a dangerous world to live in. >> charlie: no doubt in the israelis think the u.s. will not strike, they will strike. >> there is a doubt in my mind. i have to be intellectually honest. i have been predicting an israeli strike for so long i have to scratch my head and say why have i been so wrong? one possibility is they have been bluffing, which would be very dangerous. secondly, they have been sort of trapped in diplomatic amber because they're waiting for a resolution to the negotiations with iran. but the third possibility is that in the final analysis, they are going to act, and the question is whether a country that is ultimately as small as israel really has the wherewithal for the kind of sustained military campaign over a number of other countries that would be required to really significantly damage the iran anynuclear capability in the way that makes the strike worthwhile. >> charlie: your assumption is that the american public wants
the united states to be the world's policeman. >> right. >> charlie: that that's what they want and if, in fact, that's more important than sort of nation building at home, which is the argument made by a number of people, including george bush at one time, right? >> well, look, what i think every american president since truman -- >> charlie: he would argue he doesn't want to go around the world nation building, was the theme of his campaign. >> most americans understand we have to be strong at home to be strong abroad. but truman says we need to be strong abroad to be strong at home. that the security of an ally like south korea, an impoverished little nation that we stood up in 1950, or west berlin, all these far-flung kind of frontiers of freedom matter to our prosperity at home and that was the essence of the truman doctrine in 1947 and all american policy from truman all the way through to george bush senior and even to some extend -- >> charlie: some are in a
different world because you had two superpowers faced off against each other and that's not the realty of the world today. >> the reality of the world today is we face a situation in which there is pocks americana the default position we've had, and very beneficial for america, what other forms of global order can you construct? do you want the u.n. to take charge? well, i wish it would but the u.n. never does a good job. do you want to balance the power that resembles the eve of the first world war? we're is hundred days out of the july crisis of 1914. i don't think that's a good idea. who are we sharing balance with is this by the way, is the third possibility, the essence of democratic peace, countries moving toward the end of history, that has that been realized? it hasn't. we're left with the reality that america as a policeman, not a
priest, will create power vacuums to ememory around the world. >> charlie: the problem i have with the argument is i don't think anybody's saying we want to be a police and not a policeman they're saying the the world changed and how we decide the best and most effective way to do what is our power and relevancy is exercised in different ways and before were costs and consequences to two military engagements over the last 15 years. >> right. and there's no question -- there's no question that politics is an art of making brew detentionle judgment about what your priorities ought to be and we need to think carefully about what it is that we can realistically achieve to maintain a peaceful stable world, not trying to win hearts and minds but trying to shape patterns of behavior. >> charlie: i listen to you say that. i think that is exactly what president obama would say, what you just said. would you disagree with that?
we're trying to figure out ways to have influence within the realities of today's world. >> well, let me put it in a way he wouldn't agree with. >> charlie: fair enough. maybe i was speaking in terms that are too general. the united states should not be conducting a foreign policy based on tidbits. our interests are global. we can't pretend one place matters more than another. we pivot to asia, discover a problem in ukraine. we need a sense of priorities. we need to figure out what are the fires that burned down their neighborhood and what are the fires that simply burn themselves out. what are the countries we must defend, what are the guarantees we must make sure are good and which are the ones we can let go. >> charlie: today the biggest security threat to the united states is -- >> the biggest security threat to the united states is the prospect of a nuclearization of iran. >> charlie: second? an accidental or not so accidental war between china and one or several of its neighbors.
>> charlie: japan? japan philippines vietnam, taiwan. >> charlie: what is the likelihood of that? >> think about the origins over the first world war, began at the very pinky finger of europe. what we learn is that sometimes minor sparks at the far peripheries can move very quickly to the center, if a variety of equities are at stake. most of us have never heard of the sinkoku islands, these rocks in the middle of nowhere. because of our treaty guarantees to the japanese, because of the chinese claims to the islands it is not unrealistic to imagine an accidental cop flood victim leading to something much more serious over something so seemingly trivial. >> charlie: let's talk about terrorism and it's threat today and how we deal with the threat of some caliphate in some
islamic state in between syria and iraq. >> you talked about islamic state and you used the word "caliphate." i think it's important to be clear about what we have. we are dealing with a caliphate, at least as they imagine it. the difference is the state has borders. every state knows at some point there are borders and it's seeking to define them. a caliphate a does not have borders it sees itself extending as so far as it can go. so you have to worry -- now we talk about i.s.i.s., i.s.i.l whatever you want to call it, in syria and iraq. what keeps it from moving into jordan? what keeps it from moving into the sinai peninsula in egypt? it is already moving into those places. what about lebanon? so we have to ask ourselves -- we can't imagine this is a problem contained many a remote desert area. it is spreading and will continue to spread unless it is made to slink and ultimately
goes away. >> charlie: how do you do that? >> i think you have to do it in sort of a shock and awe campaign. you need to take the initiative away from i.s.i.s., but you have to do it by the way mindful, okay, that we are not going to have a permanent solution in iraq, in syria, certainly not one that we are politically or militarily willing to impose. what we can do is change the military dynamic, change the political dynamic and by the way, let's not imagine our problem is simply i.s.i.s. we also have a problem with the syrians, we also have a problem with the iranians. unfortunately, we have multiple enemies. how do you create a space so that those syrians who don't want to be a member of the strong horse whether the assad regime or whether it's i.s.i.s., we can create a third space for them. i would say start by creating a no-fly, no-drive zone in syria to safeguard syrian lives as a humanitarian, it's the right
thing to do, and creates the possibility if it still exists of safeguarding and creating a genuine third alternative for the syrians. >> charlie: of all the people who might or are likely to seek the republican nomination for president in 20 2016 does one of them or more reflect your own views more than theouters? >> well, i wrote this book in a sense with them in mind. i started it two years ago not knowing exactly who the field would be. look, i don't know. what i do know is the one who least reflects my point of view is rand paul. the guy is a work in progress, no question, and no question he's not simply his father just as george w. bush simply wasn't his father. but he is taking a view that's in a way oddly similar to what barack obama is arguing. barack obama wants nation building at home wants to retreat from american commitments abroad for the sake of basically bigger government.
rand paul wants to do it for the sake of smaller government. i know that's a caricature to some extent but contains its truth. when rand paul makes the case somehow we are bankrupting ourselves in foreign ventures that's simply not true. >> charlie: let me move to other candidates. jeb bush. >> does jeb bush have a foreign policy? i don't know. the question with jeb bush, is he going to be so snake bit by association with his brother he is going to december play seek another foreign policy or endorse it? >> charlie: great to have you. good to be here. >> charlie: the book, "america in retreat: the new isolationism and the coming global disorder," i suspect the ideas will be part and central to the debate about the next american president. back in a moment. stay with us. >> charlie: riccardo muti is here, one of the preimmeant conductor working today.
♪ ♪ >> charlie: muti will lead the chicago symphony orchestra in three concerts at carnegie hall beginning january 30. i'm pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> charlie: is that the happiest moment for you when you're there with a good orchestra and music and composers you like, leading them? >> now, this is a good question. many people feel extremely happy on the podium. i feel always that to conduct a great orchestra in front of the public that knows what they are listlistening, it is a big challenge every time, so you cannot be completely happy. >> charlie: but is it thrilling to be there and each
time, think i can get it better this time? >> every time -- (laughter) one of the most difficult moments is the end of the performance because if the public likes the performance, the public applauds and sometimes with standing ovation. and if you are honest with yourself, you start to think about all the things that you didn't achieve. >> charlie: yes. and so you are starting the criticism against yourself, and you have to smile to the public, giving the impression that you are happy. so it's a contradiction. >> charlie: is there a metric for the perfect conducting of a symphonic piece? there's no way to measure it's perfection. there's no way to measure if it's the best because there's no real judge. >> perfection doesn't exist.
and you can try all your life to discover some of the truth that is in a score, so you are faithful to what is written in the score, but this is just one part of your work. but behind the notes, you have the universe, the truth with the capital "t" and you cannot reach that point because if you are able to know the universe behind the notes, you are god. >> charlie: and we are not god. >> we all have a little piece of that truth, so we altogether become god, altogether. because all together we can have the real truth. >> charlie: complete. but the complete truth nobody has, not even the critics. >> charlie: but it is the
pursuit of that that makes a lifetime in music so exciting. >> unique, yes. yes, that is the pursuit of that. and this takes the entire life. i remember when i was a music director in florence in the big orchestra in florence and there was 27 years sold. the founder was victoria, one of the greatest conductors, still alive in florence and 90 years old. when we met, he said to me, what a pity to be near to die, the end of life, when i was starting to learn how to conduct an orchestra. that didn't mean one, two, three, four. to conduct an orchestra means to be able to get out from the musicians the best of the culture of their soul, of their
feelings. and that's what he is conducting, not jumping on the podium and making all kind of noise. >> charlie: getting the best out of the soul and musicality of the musicians. >> you get that when you reduce, reduce reduce your beat. and the carlos cliveer, the great conductor that died, he said one time to me it would be so wonderful if one day we could conduct an orchestra without moving our arms. because many times a conductor is an impediment for the public to enjoy the music because we are becoming more and more a visual society so we are detracted from what we see on the podium more from what we hear. >> charlie: what do you think you've accomplished in five years since you began in 2010? >> first more and more i've liked and loved the city.
i think chicago is one of the most beautiful cities in this country. it's really a beautiful city. the people are really what we think that are the real americans. >> charlie: strong shoulders. yes, and that i like being a southern italian. and in five years we didn't have one time a friction. it was always a wonderful time to be together. and i think that working together i have brought as every conductor brings, part of my culture. i come from europe and i come from the mediterranean. so i think that we italians especially the italians to have the south -- the italians of the south, we have a sense of the light, of the beautiful sunshine that we bring also with men
melancholy in the music. >> charlie: you said the next five years are more important. >> yes, because now that we are one body together, i and the musicians, i think we have to use the chicago symphony and the music to heal as much as we can the world, because the world is an incredible, difficult time, bloody time everywhere. >> charlie: violent convict everywhere. >> music doesn't bring words, generally. forget an opera or an auditor quum, but music itself doesn't. words are the problems in life. because with words you can say lies. >> charlie: yes. with words you can offend. >> yes, especially when you say the truth, you can offend
somebody, you know. >> charlie: yes. if somebody says, you are ugly. you are bad. you are saying the truth sometimes. >> charlie: when you came to chicago you left lascala. >> yes. >> charlie: why? because after 19 years of a wonderful time together with the musicians and the many good things that we did around the world, it was a big problem between me and the land. >> charlie: what was the friction? >> two different views. >> charlie: two different visions. >> two different visions and that brought then this fight in a political as sometimes happens in italy, it became political. you know, the fact that some workers were on the left some on the right, became a problem of unions and became another thing. instead of being artistic,
became political. so when the politics come in a theater or an opera house or a concert hall it's better for the musician to go away. >> charlie: but, at the same time, you've also -- i've heard conductors say to me, you know, they tire of the sort of responsibilities of a conductor or the music director of a symphony because of fundraising, because of entertaining, because of all those other things that has to do with maintaining the orchestra, but not leading the orchestra. >> yes. depends very much on the people that are working for the orchestra -- board of directors. and chicago, it's very well-balanced. we have sponsors, the bank of america who have been very helpful and still are very helpful. then we have a family, sam and
helen, they are friends of mine and they gave a huge contribution to the orchestra for the chair of the music director. so staying together one or two times a year, having dinner together and making jokes and this and that -- >> charlie: it's pleasant. yeah it's pleasant. >> charlie: are you going to take the orchestra to cuba? >> i hope. i hope because that would be a statement. >> charlie: yeah. of friendship. as nixon when he opened the china, the philadelphia orchestra went there. that was one of the cultural statements. and it helped. when they went to japan, the french restaurants lost the competition with italian restaurants. >> charlie: what will you conduct at carnegie hall? >> now it's three programs. quite interesting, because we
bring two symphonies of scriabin. there's a composer that is neglected but one of the great composers of the russian school together with cha cove ski and the others. so we do the first program the first part dedicated to the sea. mendelson, and in english, a prosperous voyage. the second program will be brahms concerto 2 with a great pianist and schuman third
symphony. so a german program. the third program will be the program we did in chicago a few days ago, having one day before the film of ishenstein and then in a few days we will do a collaboration between he and another director, it will be ivan the terrible. >> charlie: on the 125th 125th season of the chicago symphony orchestra? >> it will be the third shakespeare of the opera. fallstaff will be the end of the season, an opera i've done many
times. it will be with the italian baratone. he started with me in lascala. i worked with him and made him sort of falstaf of today. not because he's large but because he's the right voice. >> charlie: are you concerned about the future of music and the future of symphonic music? >> i think that music will not disappear because if music disappears, means that mankind has gone. humanity. but i'm thinking which will be the future -- music will exist but will change completely, especially the new music. i think all this cultural
influences that we are having from different parts of the world from the east from china, korea japan south america and other parts of the world, let's say globalization, even it's a bad word that i hate, but the mixture of all this new cultures getting together certainly will bring a new language in music and maybe will bring also a better relationship between public and composers because now the distance between the public and the composers that are writing music is too wide and so, this makes it very difficult for the new music to survive because we have thousands of composers around the world. they write their music. when we conduct the score one time, two times, then we feel morally in order, and then we forget the piece after the
second performance, and the public, also. the incredible composers we had at the beginning of the 20th 20th century their life -- with their life, also the music is gone. that means we have to find in the future a way that composers and the public can communicate much more than today. >> charlie: it's great to have you here. >> gratzia. >> charlie: welcome to new york. all the best to you. riccardo muti. thank you for joining us. >> charlie: >> charlie: for more, visit us at pbs.org and charlierose.com.
report" with tyler mathisen and sue herera. rocky month. january closing up the first month of the year just as it started with dramatic ups and downs. but will the rest of the year see more of the same? growth follows, the economy didn't expand as much as they thought it would but one voting measure of the federal reserve isn't concerned. scaling back. chevron the latest oil major to cut investment plan slashing its drilling budgets by the most since 2003. all that and more tonight on "nightly business report" for friday january 30th. good evening, everyone. i think i speak for a lot of folks on wall street and around the country where we say january couldn't end soon enough. bag of