tv PBS News Hour PBS November 23, 2016 3:00pm-4:00pm PST
captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, donald trump announces more top appointments to his administration, and we take a closer look at the president- elect's potential conflicts with his business interests. then, we explore the many ways mexico and the u.s. are bound together, despite the border. >> reporter: truly separating these two countries is nearly impossible, given their deep connections. not only geographically-- i'm standing in the u.s., and everything beyond the water is mexico-- but also intertwined economies, and families who live on both sides. every day, more than 1 million people cross the border legally. >> woodruff: plus, this week's "leading edge" looks at the science and psychology behind efforts to stop terrorist
attacks; and, looking at the long tradition of presidents pardoning a thanksgiving turkey. all that and more, on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> ♪ love me tender ♪ love me true we can like many, but we can love only a precious few. because it is for those precious few that you have to be willing to do so very much. but you don't have to do it alone. lincoln financial helps you provide for and protect your financial future, because this is what you do for people you love. lincoln financial-- you're in charge. >> bnsf railway.
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thank you. >> woodruff: on this day before thanksgiving, new cabinet nominees from president-elect trump, that send a message of diversity. he announced his choices today for united nations ambassador and secretary of education. john yang begins our coverage. >> yang: during the primaries, south carolina governor nikki haley was a frequent critic of candidate trump, instead backing marco rubio. her "state of the union" response was seen as an indictment of mr. trump. >> during anxious times, it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices. we must resist that temptation. >> yang: but that was then. the daughter of indian immigrants is in her second term as governor, the first female, and first minority to hold the office. she drew praise last year for
her response, after an avowed white supremacist killed nine parishioners in a black charleston church, and for leading the drive to remove the confederate flag from the statehouse, where it had flown for a half century. haley's exposure to world affairs is limited, but she's attracted foreign companies like volvo to south carolina. announcing the pick, the president-elect called her a "proven dealmaker." "we look to be making plenty of deals. she will be a great leader representing us on the world stage." that's a far cry from last march, when candidate trump tweeted: "the people of south carolina are embarrassed by nikki haley!" today, though, haley said in a statement: "when the president believes you have a major contribution to make, that is a calling that is important to heed." mr. trump today also tapped michigan philanthropist betsy devos to be his nominee for education secretary. she's never worked in public education. a big republican donor and one-time chairman of the michigan party, she is a champion for charter schools and
school vouchers. she and her husband formed a pac to support pro-voucher candidates nationwide. and late today, "the wall street >> this historic political campaign is now over, but now begins a great national campaign to rebuild our country and to restore the full promise of america for all of our people. >> mr. trump and his family are for the pbs newshour, i'm john yang. >> woodruff: there were initial reports today that ben carson had agreed to become secretary of housing and urban development, but a carson spokesman said: "nothing has been offered, and no decision has been made." in the day's other news, hillary clinton's lead in the popular vote in this year's election has passed the two-million mark. as of today, clinton has 64.2 million votes in the
nationwide tally. president-elect trump trails with 62.2 million votes, despite winning the electoral college. the updated totals are due largely to absentee and provisional ballots still being counted in california. that ongoing count in california has approved a ballot measure speeding up death penalty appeals. state officials declared tuesday that proposition 66 won 51% of the vote. it's meant to cut down on the years that convicted killers wait on the state's death row, and make sure they are actually executed. france accused syria and russia today of exploiting the u.s. political transition to launch all-out attacks on syrian rebels. the french pointed to heavy bombing of eastern aleppo, with thousands there and elsewhere cut off from food and medicine, and the foreign minister called for an emergency meeting. >> ( translated ): france is
taking an initiative to confront the strategy of total war by the regime and its allies-- who are taking advantage of the uncertainty in the united states-- to gather very quickly the group of the friends of syria in the next few days in paris. >> woodruff: the u.n. special envoy for syria joined in the concern. staffan de mistura warned that syria's military could launch a new offensive in aleppo before president-elect trump takes office. new clashes between indian and pakistani forces erupted today in disputed kashmir. tensions have been rising in the region since militants killed 17 soldiers at an indian army base there in september. today, indian units opened fire along the dividing line, hitting a passenger bus and killing ten civilians. the pakistanis said they fired back and killed seven indian soldiers. in britain, a jury convicted a white supremacist of murdering labour party lawmaker jo cox. she was shot and stabbed to death a week before britain voted to leave the european
union in june. prosecutors said thomas mair's home was full of nazi literature. back in this country, the long thanksgiving travel weekend has begun, and it's expected to be the busiest in nearly a decade. airports, railways and roads filled today. a.a.a. predicted nearly 49 million people will venture at least 50 miles from homes, due in part to record-low gas prices. but police urged patience: >> there's just so many motorists that are going to be traveling. and oftentimes we see where operators get nervous or they get upset, or road rage kicks in because they're not getting to their destinations quick enough. don't be that driver. >> woodruff: heavy rain and snow caused delays in some places today, but for the most part, the weather was not an issue. the rate of abortions in the u.s. has fallen to its lowest point in decades. the centers of disease control reports the rate in 2013 was down 50% from 1980. the c.d.c. cites the sharp
decline in teen pregnancies and expanded contraception coverage as likely factors. there's word that social media giant facebook has built software to censor material seen by users in china. "the new york times" reports it's part of an effort to gain re-entry to the country -- after a seven-year ban. a facebook spokesman told the "times" there have no specific decisions, but she said: "we have long said that we are interested in china." on wall street, two new records on a day of light trading. the dow jones industrial average gained 59 points to close at 19,083-- a new high. the nasdaq fell five points, and the s&p 500 rose a point, also reaching a new record. and archaeologists think they've solved a longtime mystery-- the exact spot in plymouth where the pilgrims first lived, after they arrived in 1620. scientists from the university
of massachusetts-boston found calf's bones, musket balls and ceramics at a spot known as "burial hill." the artifacts were discovered during a dig this past summer. still to come on the newshour: why the president-elect's business past could create problems for his presidential future; how life on the mexican border might change under a trump presidency; using counseling instead of prison time to de-radicalize convicted terrorists, and much more. >> woodruff: a deeper look now into one of president-elect trump's key cabinet picks today. and again, to john yang. >> yang: one of those choices that immediately drew a lot of attention was his pick for education secretary, besty devos. it does send a number of signals about what mr. trump intends to do with his education policy,
but raises questions, too. alyson klein of education week joins me now. thanks for coming. betsy devos, not necessarily well known nationwide. who is she and what does she say or what does her pick say about trump on education. >> on the campaign trail trump talked about school choice and betsy devos is a long-time school choice advocate. so we can expect the administration will make school choice a huge priority. >> yang: what can the federal government do on school choice? >> a great question. on the campaign trail donald trump proposed taking $20 billion in federal funding by is almost a third of the u.s. department of education's budget and using that for a school choice program. it's unclear if a proposal like that could actually pass
congress. senator alexander who will preside over betsy devos' confirmation hearing put forth a similar proposal last year and it didn't get the votes to clear procedural hurls. so having somebody like betsy devos talking about school choice from the bully pulpit of the department of education could really give lift to the issue in states and districts. >> yang: another thing mr. trump spoke a lot about on the campaign trail is common core. he doesn't like it. what do we know about betsy devos' position on common core? >> she's clarified her position on common core today saying she thinks it's a federal boondoggle. she's also said she's in favor of accountability and local control. some school choice advocates actually worried about devos as a common core supporter because she's on the board of governor jeb bush's organization and obviously jeb bush is quite a supporter of common core and she
made it clear today she stands with mr. trump in opposing the standards. >> yang: how does her battleground compare? she was a philanthropist, a chairman of the michigan republican party. how does her battleground and experience compare with previous education secretaries? >> it's unusual battleground. our last couple of education secretaries, had both worked in school districts. john cane was the state chief of new york. arne duncan was the state school superintendent in chicago. other school sectors actually have been governors. so it's unusual to have someone who has been an advocate. >> yang: she's never worked in education, never run a big bureaucracy or organization, is that what you're saying? >> yes, that's correct a. >> yang: what's her reaction to being named as a nominee?
>> the advocates are excited to have one of their champions headed to the department of education. teachers are unhappy and picked up on she doesn't have a battleground in a school district and are opposed to vouchers which they say siphon off money for public schools. >> yang: that's been an issue for some time in public education. >> absolutely, the idea of creating a choice program is something republicans have wanted for a long time. the closest is the voucher in the district of columbia. >> yang: will she have any chance getting confirmed? >> i expect not. senator alexander made out a supportive statement on her confirmation. she's certainly donated to a lot of republicans and they may look upon her appointment favorably. >> yang: alyson klein helping us understand who betsy devos
is. thanks so much for soming in. >> thanks for having me. >> woodruff: one area of uncharted territory under a trump presidency centers on potential conflicts of interests with his businesses. yesterday, the president-elect told "the new york times," "the law is totally on my side." but recent meetings with some current and potential foreign investors have raised new questions. we explore those with richard painter, a university of minnesota law professor who was president george w. bush's top ethics attorney in the white house; and kenneth gross, he's an ethics law expert who advised new york mayor michael bloomberg when he went from businessman to public official. and we welcome both of you to the "newshour". i'll start with you richard painter. when donald trump says the president can't have a conflict of interest, is he right about that?
>> well, no. of course, the president can have a conflict of interest. i mean, think about where we would be today if president roosevelt owned the buildings in germany in years leading up to the world and deutsche banc. you can have conflicts of interest that would be detrimental to the american people. you need a president who will stand up to foreign dictators and who will focus on the needs of the united states, the need of peace in the world and strength. these conflicts of interest are real. whether or not a specific criminal statute applies to the president, which it doesn't, even though it applies to every other executive branch employee, but there are other rules that do apply to the president including the clause in the constitution which says president cannot receive payments from foreign governments, and that's something that the trump organization needs to deal with because they have outstanding
loans from the bank of china which is controlled by the government of china and have foreign diplomats checking into their hotels and renting their expensive suites and that needs to be dealt with, so the law does apply to the president and he can have conflict of interest and eneeds to get rid of them. >> woodruff: keneth gross, how clear are the rules and the laws that apply to the president? >> well, what's clear is that the domestic conflict of interest side was not apply to the president, that's the letter of the law. what the ethics surrounding a president and what the conventions say he should be doing is a very different thing. the emole youment's clause which is the gift provision in the constitution is alive and well and does apply but the application of that is not so clear. you know, what sort of foreign corporations would come into play? are they owned by a foreign government and is what an
emollument? is it a payment or is it a commercial transaction? there are issues of interpretation as well. >> woodruff: richard painter, what do you say donald trump needing to do in order to remove any question of a conflict of interest, given his significant and widespread holdings? >> well, i think the first step to make sure that he complies with the constitution, and he does need to address the emoluments issue, and i suggested to his transition team that they ought to have an assignment over to the united states government, an assignment of any and all payments from foreign governments that are covered by the emoluments clause. that is an answer to a problem of a different foreign government. you can give it to the united states government. he could do that today with a simple of assignment of those payments plus an audit that would take place every year to
make sure we swept them all out. that's the bare minimum and i think the electoral college should insist on that before voting, just as they would want to see a birth certificate if that were at issue or anything else. that's important constitutionally. >> woodruff: richard painter, let me stop you right there because i want to make sure what everybody understands what this emolument business is. anything that would benefit donald trump's businesses, being sure that doesn't interfere in any way with the u.s. government. >> as well as i can define this -- >> no, no, that's too broad. that's too broad. >> okay. so what we have here is a provision in the constitution that says you cannot receive a present, meaning a gift. then there is this question of emolument. it clearly applies to someone who works in the national institute of health that wants to work for a foreign government because he's providing a service and if he gets a payment for
that, at the raise as question under emoluments and has to be dealt with. if a foreign government se paying into a place they're renting owned by mr. trump, the president of the united states, i have not seen the emolument provision apply in that. it's not a service, it's a commercial transaction. >transaction. >> woodruff: in the minutes we have, richard painter, again, what are you saying that mr. trump needs to do? >> if they are above market rents or below market interest rate loans from the bank of china, i think those are presents like any other present. but the point is he could now assign over to the united states government anything covered under the emoluments law and we can sort it out and that needs to be under the electoral
college. his assets can be divested through an initial public offering or other ways. many families do that when they want to move on from their business. he's going to be the president of the united states. >> woodruff: he talked about putting his assets in a blind trust his children would run. would that take care of what we're talking about? >> it really doesn't. it's not a behind trust. first of all, he knows what he put in it. in order for it to be a true blind trust, he would have the liquidate his assets first. that is not realistic in any short period of time. i don't know about going public with everything. that's not so easy either. i understand most his assets aren't all liquid and they don't all create conflicts of interests. i agree you need to look internationally first. but having a trust with your children in charge doesn't meet the requirements of a blind trust if he were required to
meet the requirements, which he's not. richard painter, how much of this is complicated by the fact that we don't know publicly what donald trump's business interests are. he has nod released his tax returns. he has made a financial statement, but a lot of this is not public information, is it? >> no, it's not. i asked him to release the tax returns in the campaign even though he decided not to do that, and every campaign has done that. i think he needs to give some to his kids, put some in a blind trust and be a good president. he made the decision to be a president rather than businessman. now that he's made the decision, it's time to do it. >> woodruff: keneth gross, does he have to sell it all off? >> it's not realistic.
internationally, that's where the primary focus should be. >> woodruff: ken gross, richard painter, we thank you both. >> thank you. >> woodruff: during his run for the white house, president-elect donald trump made mexico, perhaps more than any other individual country, a campaign issue. tonight, with the help of the pulitzer center on crisis reporting, we begin a special, two-part series from mexico, and a look at trump's promises to deport millions of undocumented immigrants, and to build a wall along the u.s. southern border. special correpsondent nick schifrin and producer zach fannin begin their report tonight from the outskirts of the mexican border city of ciudad juarez. >> reporter: in the dry riverbed that separates mexico from the u.s., the promise of a better life is only a few hundred feet away. the woman is a 23-year-old mexican from juarez who asked to remain anonymous.
leading her is a half guide, half smuggler, known as a coyote. everything beyond the fence is el paso, texas. she's trying to cross illegally. >> ( translated ): there's work here but the wages are very low. you can barely survive here. life there is better than here. >> reporter: the coyote's been doing this for ten years. compared to when he started, today's border is much more secure. >> ( translated ): it's more difficult now. before, they used to cross just to have fun. now, they cross because they want to be there, like her, and live there. >> reporter: she's part of a recent spike. from august to october, the number of people apprehended on the southern border rose by nearly 20%. she's trying to get in before donald trump is inaugurated. >> ( translated ): they say it will get more difficult, so i have to do it now. >> reporter: what would happen if president trump built a wall right here? >> ( translated ): we would cross anyway. anyway, we would cross. we're never going to stop crossing. >> reporter: how would you cross
if there were a wall there? >> ( translated ): that's what we wondered when the fence went up. and we found a way. here we are. there's always a way. >> reporter: it's not easy. tonight, a border guard scared them away. tomorrow, they'll try again. stopping this kind of illegal immigration was a central trump campaign theme. >> when mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. they're rapists. and some, i assume, are good people. on day one, we will begin working on an impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, beautiful southern border wall. ( applause ) >> reporter: the mexico-u.s. border is nearly 2,000 miles long. right now, walls or fences, like this one west of el paso, texas, cover about 700 miles. the terrain can be rough. but the distances between american and mexican cities are
often small. in some places, sturdy iron gives way to standard-issue chain link fence, which is scheduled to be replaced. this fence couldn't keep this young man out. u.s. border agents arrest a 17-year-old mexican who crossed illegally. he's been arrested before, trying to lead undocumented immigrants into the u.s. this time, he was spotted by a highly sensitive camera manned by an agent more than a mile away. >> they've got nighttime equipment, cameras they can use to look down and really cover a vast area with the technology they have available to them. >> reporter: joe romero is a supervisory border patrol agent. he says there is no quick and easy solution to securing the border. >> we've got 18-foot fence. there's a guy in mexico, i'm sure, making a killing off of 20-foot ladders. at the end of the day, people find a way to get through. >> reporter: every day they patrol for eight hours. the vehicles and fences are meant to deter and stop would-be
crossers. the increased presence, along with more aggressive prosecution, began a decade ago. it worked. illegal crossings are down 84% since 2006, despite the recent spike. is the goal to get illegal crossings to zero? >> i can't say that you'll ever be able to stop crossings 100%. i just don't see that. and really that's not the goal. the goal is to mitigate the threats coming to our borders. >> reporter: truly separating these two countries is nearly impossible, given their deep connections. not only geographically-- i'm standing in the u.s., and everything beyond the water is mexico-- but also intertwined economies, and families who straddle the border. every day more than 1 million people cross the border legally. the olivares castro family's commute starts every day at 4:00 a.m. mother reina, behind the wheel, is a mexican from juarez. 12-year-old anna wants to be a doctor when she grows up. to cross the border, she needs a binder full of papers and a
student visa. about 370,000 vehicles cross the southern border every day. the wait can be morthan an hour. all of this, so anna can go to an american school that's better than any school in juarez. >> they teach you more things, they get more deep into the subjects they teach you. i have more job opportunities. they recognize your talent. >> reporter: she says this private school treats her with respect. they, and many mexicans, believe that president-elect trump disrespects a country of 120 million. >> ( translated ): not everyone is a criminal. they need us mexicans, they need us latinos, and we need them. >> he's telling lies. and all of those people think that we're what donald trump says. but we're not like that. we're friendly people. >> reporter: 2,300 miles north, the latino community in columbus, ohio feels the same frustration and fear. >> here in the midwest, in ohio, now, all latinos seems to fit a
profile for people. >> reporter: john ramos heads the local office of the pro-latino rights organization lulac. he is most concerned by trump's promise to deport millions of undocumented workers. >> i am going to create a new special deportation task force, focused on identifying and quickly removing the most dangerous, criminal, illegal immigrants in america who have evaded justice. >> reporter: that promise seems to have awakened previously hidden racism and nationalism. this undocumented mexican immigrant, who was too scared to show her face, gave birth nine months ago in ohio. that means the daughter's a u.s. citizen, and the u.s. is obligated to provide her social security. but when the mother tried to get her baby a social security card, a local official threw her out of the office. >> ( translated ): he told me, "i can't help you. get out of here." and his voice was upset. i told him, it's not social security for me. it's for her. and he told me, "you don't have documents.
how dare you come here." >> reporter: is that a federal official effectively going rogue? >> i would say so. yes, it is. it's not in his position as a social security employee-- federal employee-- to request a person to show proof of their citizenship. >> reporter: the mother returned with a lawyer, and the government official gave the baby the social security card. but he improperly forced the mother to provide her address. ramos says that's never happened before. >> if you have to provide right now, your residence, your point of contact, your phone number, you're providing a tracker. >> reporter: and that has sent a chill into the latino community in columbus, ohio. >> it's all the hate. it's all these comments that he would say about, like, "oh, i would just punch him in the face." >> i'd like to punch him in the face, i'll tell you. >> so you would have people now
thinking they could probably come up to you and just act on their own and attack you. >> reporter: the day after donald trump was elected president, something happened at school. tell me what happened. >> this kid was making fun of me at school. he was like, "are you going to go pack your bags? are you going to go back to mexico?" >> reporter: the girl is an american, born in ohio, and goes to a local public school. her father is an undocumented mexican who has been here for 11 years. they're also scared and didn't want us to identify them. he runs a taco truck, he pays taxes on a relatively steady income, and his customers are mostly fellow undocumented immigrants. they've always felt welcomed, he says, until donald trump began his campaign. >> ( translated ): inside the mexican communities, people go to work with fear. and the kids' grades can go down because they're worrying about what's going to happen. the impact has been like a bomb. it's affecting the children, the
young people, the innocents. >> reporter: in response to those fears, mexican foreign secretary claudia ruiz massieu released a video featuring mexico's consul generals. they urge the five-plus million undocumented mexicans in the u.s. to stay calm. >> we are alert. that is why i have instructed my 50 consulates to increase their outreach to our community. >> reporter: massieu says she wants to work with the incoming administration, but she warns that if trump follows through on all his promises, it's not only mexico that would be harmed. >> if the environment were to become more hostile, i'm sure the united states would also feel a negative effect in its economy, in prices, inflation, in loss of jobs, and in loss of people that really contribute a lot to different communities throughout the united states. >> reporter: but even before trump's taken office, illegal
immigration has risen, as has the panic among mexicans on both sides of the border. for the pbs newshour i'm nick schifrin in ciudad juarez, mexico. >> woodruff: stay with us. coming up on the newshour, david brooks and others on how to keep the peace during your family's thanksgiving meal; and the final turkey pardon under president obama. now, trying to reverse radicalization and terrorism in the u.s. miles o'brien looks at how experts in the field of clinical psychology are tackling this, as part of our weekly series on the "leading edge" of science. >> reporter: in a federal courtroom in minneapolis, they are facing the threat of homegrown terrorism, in a manner that has never been tried before in this country. it is a bold experiment in criminal justice and clinical
psychology. the question: can aggressive counseling bring someone back from the brink of radicalization? >> what we have started here is revolutionary. i think it's great. >> reporter: manny atwal is a federal public defender representing 20-year-old abdullahi yusuf. he is one of eight first- generation somali americans, all in their teens or early 20s, convicted in may of plotting to go to syria and fight for the islamic state. >> i know we punish juveniles. i get that, and i understand that, and i know we punish young adults and i get that and understand that, but at the same time, to say "let's just lock them up for a lifetime" is not the right solution. >> reporter: while he was in jail awaiting sentencing, abdullahi yusuf has become the nation's first convicted terrorist to undergo terrorism rehabilitation. he has two mentors who counsel him regularly, and a wide- ranging reading list.
>> learning american civics, learning about american culture, learning about the east and west, it just opened up his eyes. and that, i think, is the engagement that i speak up to try and get these kids to disengage from some of their thinking that's been put in their heads, and to get them back to be the good citizens that they were before this happened. >> reporter: it appears the effort may have held sway with the judge. yusuf, who also testified against his friends, was sentenced to time served-- while most of the others have received long prison terms. the case of these young men is one chapter in a long sad story. >> minnesota has the greatest number of terrorism prosecutions of any of the federal districts in the united states. >> reporter: john tunheim is the chief federal judge for the district of minnesota, home to the largest somali american community in the u.s. he has watched from the bench as a tragic exodus began in 2007.
23 young somali americans from minnesota joined the ranks of the al qaeda-linked, al shabab terror group as it tried to topple the government of somalia. more recently, the call to arms has come from the islamic state. for judges trying to mete out fair sentences, it is uncharted territory. there are no guidelines. >> they're different from a bank robber or someone who sells drugs. i mean, we understand those cases, we have had many of those cases in our courts. we haven't had much terrorism in cases. we need to understand them. we need to make sure that we can keep them to the best effort that we possibly can from becoming terrorists again. >> reporter: for some expert advice, they turned to this man in stuttgart, germany. >> the minneapolis group was a by-the-book radicalization process. what they did was they actually followed isil's own recruitment
handbook step-by-step. >> reporter: daniel koehler is one of a small cohort of experts in the world in the emerging field of de-radicalization. the judge hearing the cases in minnesota is factoring koehler's guidance into sentencing. >> when you start working with a person, the first question is, "is that person willing to change?" is he or she actually asking for help to leave the movement? is there any cognitive opening? it's like peeling an onion. layer by layer, you try to work yourself to the core and offer something that gets more and more attractive to that person, to compete with a narrative of groups like isil or al-qaeda. >> reporter: koehler has de-radicalized neo-nazis for years, and he says the approach is much the same, but the enticement to religious extremism is even more compelling. >> it's the opportunity to become a hero, to become a martyr, to serve a cause greater than your own.
>> reporter: psychologist arie kruglanski says terrorists are seeking that-- and certainty; clear-cut answers in a chaotic world. the psychological term is cognitive closure. >> the need for cognitive closure is the need for certainty, the need to be confident about a topic, the need to know for sure. >> reporter: kruglanski and his team have authored reams of research on the sri lankan terror group known as the liberation tigers of tamil eelam, the tamil tigers. he discovered a clear link between feelings of self worth and the desire to join a group. >> you feel that you're humiliated, you're insignificant, and you do not matter. that predisposes people to listen to ideologies that tell you, "i'll tell you how you're going to matter. you're going to matter," and this is in the case of isis and radicalization, "you're going to matter by joining the fight." >> you can go ahead and come on in. >> reporter: kruglanski has tested this theory with a simple experiment, which he replicated
for us. our subjects: four university of maryland undergraduates. graduate student marina chernikova presided over the experiment. >> the purpose of this experiment is to explore the evolutionary-- >> reporter: they all played a simple videogame called the "duck hunt." the game was set to be impossibly hard for two of them, and incredibly easy for the other two. they were told a score of 100 or more predicts all kinds of success in life. >> but scores lower than 100 strongly predict failure. so you're going to be playing that game today. >> reporter: ben weinberg had it easy. he was knocking ducks out of the sky right and left, and waltzed to the 100-point threshold. but when it was mara lins' turn in the hot seat, there were no sitting ducks. not even close. >> i felt really frustrated, because the duck was just going so fast, i couldn't ever really click on it that well, and the scores just kept going more down. it made me really uncomfortable,
actually. >> reporter: they took a survey that included two dozen questions designed to assess people's need for support from a group. >> this person seems to be scoring very high on interdependence. do you know what condition was he in? >> yes, this one was in the failure condition. >> if you're successful, you feel relatively independent of your group. you can have it on your own. you do not need the group. you do not need other people. but when you feel humiliated and weakened in a sense of failure, that's the circumstances that lead you to attach to the group, to the larger entity that would tell you-- that would first empower you, and tell you how to feel significant, by doing what the group requires you to do. >> reporter: the minnesota men were straddling two cultures, not sure where they belonged, and they were incessantly watching isis recruitment videos. >> i don't mean to sound so callous about it, but it looked
cool to them. i don't think, personally, these kids ever thought through it, and to be actually picking up a gun and killing people. >> reporter: ayan farah runs a small restaurant in a mall that caters to the somali community. two of her sons were convicted. one got ten years; the other 30. she believes the sentences are too harsh. >> they're teenage. teenage is teenage, always teenage is teenage. >> reporter: but does de-radicalization work? arie kruglanski has data that shows it does. in sri lanka, he studied the tamil tigers at different times during their first year home after a long civil war. some were exposed to a full de-radicalization program; others were not. >> we found a significant decline in violence in the experimental group that received the treatment, as compared to the control group that received only minimal treatment. human minds, human psyches are malleable.
they are pliable. in the same way as a person gets radicalized, it changes from a mainstream kind of person to a fringe kind of person, they can be brought back, and also, they can be re-radicalized. >> reporter: the experiment may soon have some other points of data, thanks some judges in minnesota who are leaning forward, looking for a better solution. >> while people may be very happy to see someone put away for many, many years, if they're accused of being a terrorist, that just is not feasible to think that warehousing these people without helping them at all is doing anyone any good. >> reporter: the science suggests de-radicalization is possible, but is this country ready to embrace the approach en masse? the jury is still out on that. miles o'brien, the pbs newshour, minneapolis.
>> woodruff: as families and friends gather together for this thanksgiving holiday, we are aware that this year's meal may be a more tense and awkward affair than usual, because of reaction to the election. in that spirit, we collected a number of voices-- some from the newshour family-- to offer suggestions about how we can talk to each other this year: with civility, sometimes with candor, and understanding too. i'm looking forward to what i'm sure will be an uncomfortable but celebratory thanksgiving. >> i recommend not talking about politics right away but having several rounds of conversations. the first subject could be things i always resented about you. the next could be ways you've wounded me from which i'll never recover and, by the time you get to poll the ticks, it will seem good, actually. >> civil is not a tone.
it's a temperament. if somebody says you're a knuckle dragging pond scum with a smile on their face, i don't feel better because they said it nice. seville is motivation. >> in the middle of a discussion if another piece of pie is to be had, try that. >> this is never an easy conversation even in the best of times which is why we're notoriously bad at vag it. there is always changing the subject. i understand a lot of people hike to talk about sports. >> we gamble. we play a filipino poker, so at least we're gambling while this is happening. so it adds civility. >> nine times out of ten, we end up saying the very thing we promised we wouldn't say and then you've got a turkey explosion on your hands. >> my solution to that is, as i said, just give 'em pie. >> i don't think we as a country know how to have conversations
anymore. i think what happens is we all just project and, instead of listening, really listening, what we do is, when people talk, we really decide how we're going to counterwhat they're saying. >> i've never lost a friend over politics and i don't believe in it. politics is something we care about. but friendship matters more, family relationships matter a zillion times more. >> the conversation starts with you moderating your own behavior and listening to what the other person is saying and forming a bond the other person is talking to. >> listening is a radical act and i could not agree more and i think more than anything we need to listen to each other. >> when things get heated, i think you can allow that person to say who they are, the values that drive them and not demonize or make them feel they have to be defensive. >> i get worked up sometimes and
when i can sense i'm about to go over the line, i'll just say something dumb or make a trivial pop culture reference that's just beyond silly to pop the pin and let some air out of the room a little bit. >> there's a lot of research that shows when we don't just say i'm angry or i'm sad, but i feel betrayed, i feel really sad, when we can get more nuanced about our emotions, we tend to do better in these interactions. >> everyone in my family, either -- most of them are either born here and are u.s. citizens or naturalized u.s. citizens. everyone is kind of panicking and worried. some of my family members including my grandmother thinks i should just go home, home being the philippines where i haven't been since i was 12. everybody is going to have something to say because that's what family is, and just to kind
of nod and smile and, you know, explain this is my home. and no president can take that away. >> i would encourage particularly white people to go home and have these difficult conversations. don't just have them in your echo chambers or when you're around other progressive whites. you need to take some of those important points home and point out why these issues are important to you. maybe talk about why it's personal, talk about friendships you have with people of color or people who are genuinely afraid and who have been affected by this. >> i don't think anybody should feel like they have some obligation to address these things. at the thanksgiving table. that's not what thanksgiving is about. it's not about you. i think people are confusing thanksgiving with festavis. this is not about the airing of grievances, not about self
actualization or understanding of your viewpoint. >> whether you supported bill clinton, whether -- whether you supported hillary clinton or donald trump, democrat or republican, don't mean to sound saccharin here, but we are all americans and we are all celebrate ago national holiday that should make us all stop and be at least a little bit thankful that we live in this country. >> i would just remember that the people who voted for trump if you're not a trump voter, in my experience, i've certainly spoken to a lot of them, they were realistic about the guy and they just wanted a change, wanted to be heard, they had sometimes legitimate reasons for voting for a person i personally disagree with. it's not like they were signing on for evil, they were taking the vehicle they had to change what they saw as a declining circumstance. >> instead of defining an individual by one vote or perspective, we can instead bring our value, our intention, our compassion, our love, our
kindness to people who we truly value. >> woodruff: on our web site, you can download our guide to civility at the holidays and use it as a place mat at the thanksgiving table, seriously. find it at pbs.org/newshour. >> woodruff: before the president and his family gather for thanksgiving, it was time for one last executive duty: the presidential turkey pardon. the annual tradition sees two lucky birds spared from the dinner table, but only one is selected to take part in the ceremony. >> malia and sasha, by the way, are thankful this is my last presidential turkey pardon. but what i haven't told them yet is that we are going to do this every year from now on. no cameras.
just us, every year. no way i am cutting this habit cold turkey. >> woodruff: the tradition has happened every november for the past quarter-century. but there's debate about how it all got started. >> president truman was the first president to pardon a turkey. >> woodruff: but that's not true. in fact, the truman presidential library says, "truman sometimes indicated to reporters that the turkeys he received were destined for the family dinner table. truman was actually the first president to receive a turkey from the national turkey federation. so who was the first president to pardon a turkey? lincoln, it appears, was the first on record. but it was a christmas turkey that his son had taken a liking to. president john f. kennedy was the first to pardon a thanksgiving turkey. in 1963, despite a sign hanging around the turkey's neck that read, "good eating, mr. president," kennedy sent the
bird back to the farm. richard nixon also gave the birds a reprieve, sending his turkeys to a nearby petting zoo. ronald reagan was the first to use the word pardon when he was talking turkey in 1987. the turkey pardoning became formalized in 1989, with president george h.w. bush. >> let me assure you, and this fine tom turkey, that he will not end up on anyone's dinner table. not this guy. >> woodruff: this year, the spared birds will be sent to virginia tech university, where they already have a prominent gobbler on campus. the event has become a white house holiday tradition. >> this is the eighth i have had the privilege to meet and set free in the rose garden. >> woodruff: in 2000, jerry the turkey from wisconsin sported a white house pass around his neck. four years later, the bush administration also had some with fun with the event. the names of that year's turkeys were chosen in a vote on the
white house website. >> this is an election year, and biscuits had to earn his spot at the white house. biscuits and his running mate, gravy, prevailed over the ticket of patience and fortitude. >> woodruff: for his final turkey pardon naming, president obama took suggestions from the iowa turkey producer's children and their classmates. the winners? tater and tot. >> woodruff: tonight on pbs, two documentaries commemorating the 75th anniversary of the attack on pearl harbor. "u.s.s. oklahoma: the final story" features first-person accounts from survivors who
spent days trying to rescue trapped sailors, and focuses on new efforts to identify those who perished. and "into the arizona" follows a team of divers who are the first to explore the lower decks of the ship where more than 1,000 sailors lost their lives. >> in 1941, the attack on pearl harbor claimed the u.s.s. arizona. now five years later one arizona survivor and a group of scientists take a look at the ship like it has never been seen before. >> the oklahoma was going over very fast, and everybody kind of was to himself to get out. >> pearl harbor is an event that reaches the 20th century into the 21st century. >> i know my family never had closure for generations. >> the ability to identify remains is really advanced, so
there's a lot of hope for the families' lost loved ones. >> woodruff: the two pearl harbor films air tonight on most pbs stations. finally tonight, we want to take a moment to thank you, our viewers, who have liked us on facebook and helped us reach a milestone. >> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight. on thursday, a look at the nation's top restaurants over time that have influenced what we eat. i'm judy woodruff. join us online, and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, have a wonderful thanksgiving! thank you, and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:
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