tv PBS News Hour PBS May 24, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc ru >> wo: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight... >> this is a tremendous setback for north korea and indeed a setback for the world >> woodruff: ...president trump calls off the historic summit with north korea, accusing the regofimpen hostility. then, top u.s. lawmakers are briefed following president trump's claims that the f.b.i. planted a spy in his campaign. and the release of an n.b.a. player's arrest video fuels the debate over excessive force by pol e towards african americans. all that and more otonight's pbs newshour. >> e major funding fopbs newshour has been provided by:
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>> this program was made onpossible by the corporaor public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the singapore summit is canceled. put atiend, for now at least, to planning for president trump to meet with north korea's kim jong un in early june. today, the president sent a letter to kim, announcing he's puheing out and referring to massive and powerful nuclear capabilities of the united states. foreign affairs correspondent nick schifrin begins our coverage. >> schifrin: president trump once said his summit with kim jong un could produce "peacand safety for the world." today h but to cancel. choice >> based on the rent statement of north korea, i've decided to terminate the planned summit. i believe that this is a tremendous setback for north
korea and, indeed, a setback for the world. >> sc confidence to cancellation, took less than a month'r >> i think looking at the libya model of 2003, 2004. >> schifrin: on april 29 national security advisor john bolton invoked libya its former leader muammar gadhafi, who in 2003 traded his nascent nuclear progr for normalization, but in 2011 was overthrown and killed by u.s.-backed rebels. on may 16, rth korean first ce minister of foreign affairs kim kye gwan called bolton "repugnant" and said "if the u.s. is trying to... force our unilateral nuclear abandonment, we will no longer be interested in such dialogue." on tuesday, vice president mike pence repeated the reference to libya. >> as the president made clear, this will only end like the libya model ended if kim jong un
doesn't make a deal. >> some people saw that as a threat >> it's more of a fact. >> schifrin: last night, chief nororth korean negotiathoe son hui called pence's remarks "ignorant" and "stund added, "whether the u.s. will meet us at a eneting room or ounter us at nuclear-to- nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the cision and behavior of the united states." just hours later, trump ced those words to cancel the summit, and immediately mention u.s. military was prepared. >> and our military, which is by far the most powerful anywhere in the world, and has been great enhanced recently, as you all know, is ready if necessary. >> schifrin: that's exactly the talk south korean president moon jae-in's been trying torevent. he met president trump just two days ago and today expressed surprise. "i am very perplexed," he said in a statement, "and it is very regrettable tort the north -u.s. summit will not be held."
the u.s. says north kont back on its promise to invite experts, but journalists including associated pss ease rafe were >> schifrin: but the nature of that denuclearization remains in dispute. north korea expresses interest in slow, step-by-step denuclearizaon, and step-by- step american incentives. the u.s. would prefer all-in-one ridenucltion. and administration officials say >> you can tell when something's coming together and people are getting ba quickly, and the logistics are being worked out. it was your sense over the course of the last week or so, that that was diminishing, is that corre? >> we got a lot of dial tones, senator. >> schifrin: the intelligence
community has long concluded kim would not give up his nuclear weapons. but today, even after he cancelled, presiednt trump repeis faith in kim's intentions. >> they really want to do what's right, i really believe kim jong un wants to do what's right, and fuhopey things will work out. >> schifrin: president trump >> schifrin: president trump he felt "very strongly"bout canceling, but if the north s wanted to talk, he was still open to it. for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin. oo>>uff: for more now on why the president backed out of plans for the summit, i'm joined byntur white house correspon yamiche alcindor. so, yamiche, you have working on the story all day. what have you learned about why? >> i learned the summit was canceled because white house officials believed norea was engaged in a pattern of behavior that showed it wasn't seriouabout denuclearization. the senior white house official said and told me and the otr reporters there was "radio silence" when it came to north korea. so they were trying to work out the logistics and policy issues
and some point they stopped getting called back from their north korean counterparts and could gotten forward so this was canceled because they didn't think they could be ready by june 1o >> woodruff:u get a sense this is off permanently or could it come together again >> two people i can at least quote on the record were kellyanne conway who is white house counselor and rudy giuliani who is the president's personal attorney, bh of them and several other people who can't be named all said they thought this was definitely ing to happen, they thought president trump is very much interested in having many meeting happen. the problem is they're not sure whether or not north korea is treally going to me conditions they want. rudy giuliani told me particular, i don't think it's necessarily totally canceled. kellyanne conway made ate point to say she thought there was so much that had been gained in the last few weeks, hostages were reeseed, north korean and south korean leaders have their own
mmit, and she thinks something could happen in the future. >> woodruff: interesting the president's attorney and political counselor are talking about foreign policy. >> yeah. >> woodruff: yamiche, what did you learn about conditions or what the white house wants to have happen if anything's going to move forward? >> that's the key here. i talked t people and asked them, okay, what needs to happen if the summit t is goi happen, what can happen in the future? they said north korea cannot engage in missile testing, ndclear testinghey cannot publicly object to the u.s. and south korea military exeises. so that's kind of something that's pretty clear. but the things that the whiteha housbeen more cagey to nfirm are there is reporting out there and at least one person confirmed this to me that they want north korea start dismantling its nuclear warheads, its nuclear material and interballistic missiles oversages and move them out of north korea within six months. that was one t person wd me that, but there were all the people at the white house i was tryito physically chase down
today and none would confirm that. so it's still up in the air what north korea has to do specifically for the united states to want to meet with them now. >> woodruff: sounds like a lot of discussions underway internally. >> i think if north korea at least picks up the phone, they might be able to have a conversation. >> woodruff: yamiche alcindor, wehank you. >> woodruff: in the day's other news, senior justice, intelligce and f.b.i. officials briefed top members of the house and senate, on classified documents in the russia investigati. the briefings came as president trump claims the f.b.i. tried to infiltrate his 2016 campaign. the white house initially arranged a republicans-only briefing, before democrats objected. we'll have a full report, later in the program. international investigators say there's no longer andoubt: the missile that destroyed a ngmalaysian airlines pas plane over ukraine in 2014, came from russian military unit. they say the missile was trucked into ukraine from kursk, where a russian missile brigade is based. e announced in
the netherlands, and prosecutors said the question now is: who fired the missile. >> we are entering the next phase of the investigationhich is really now progressing towards the people who are responsibl now we are narrowing down and narrowing down to find the perpetrators. so see this as a confident call for the next phase. >> woodruff: investigators already concluded the missile was fired from ukrainian territory controlled by russian- backed rebels. all 298 people on board the airliner were killed, and most were dutch. moscow denieany responsibility. in syria, war monitors say air strikes killed 12 pro-government fighters overnight. they say those killed were foreigners, possibly organized by iran, and the air strikes likely came from u. coalition planes. the u.s. military said it has no information on the reports. there's word that u.s. airmen guarding nuclear missiles in wyoming used and sold l.s.d. for
months, before getting caught in 2016. the associated press reports trafficking in the mind-altering drug happened at f.e. warren air force base, near cheyenne. 14 airmen were disciplined. e air force says none wa accused of using drugs while on duty. china, japan and europe are warning the s. not to raise tariffs on imported cars and auto parts. that's after president trump ordered an exploration of the move, on national security ounds. he acted as trade talks with canada and mexico have stalled over auto production. in beijing, china's foreign ministry warned of repercussions >> ( translated as everyone knows, china's stance is we oppose the abuse of national security clauses, which will seriously damage multilateral trade systems and disrupt normal international trade order. iina will resolutely defe own legitimate interests.
>> woodruff: the head of the united auto workers, dennis williams, voiced cautious support for the presnt's move. but some in mr. trump's own party, including texas republican congressman jeb lihens, warned of touching off a global trade war. the u.s. senate voted today to overhaul rules for handling gasexual harassment claimsst lawmakers. the bill eliminates a mandatory bwaiting periore accusers file a complaint. it also requires legislators to nyrepay the costs of settlements. the measure now goes to the house. oscar-winning actor morgan ereeman apologized today a eight women accused him of sexual harassment and otr misconduct cnn reported the allegations aincluded touching, stari suggestive comments. in a statement, frman said, "i apologize to anyone who felt uncomfortable or disrespected-- that was never my intent." and on wall street, the dow
jones industrial average lost 75 points to close at 24,811. the nasdaq fell one point, and the s&p 500 slipped five. still to come on the newshour: briefing congress on why an f.b.i. informant was talking to the trump campaign. police release the video of a black professional basketball player arrested over a parking ticket, and much more. >> woodruff: for a select group of senior lawmakers, part of this day was spent meeting with jutoice department and intelligence officials. the topic was a sensitive one: the origins of the f.b.i.'ses russia igation, and a confidential f.b.i. source's contacts with the trump campaign. president trump, this week, has used this very issue to attack
ththe legitimacy oprobe, now led by special counsel robert mueller. our own lisa desjardins has been following this story all day for us. lisa, what a dramatic day. two sepate briefings,top college, department of justice officials going to the hill. take usthrough why there were two. >> they were on the exact same topic, what was known about an informant working with the f.b.i. as they looked into the mptrump gn. the first was with the department of justice. that was the first initied by republicans in the house, devin noonunez, how intelligence chairman, wanted the qns answered in a classified segment. the white house convened and helped that meeting come together. trey gowdy was added to the invitation list. who wasn't on it? democrats nor other senate intelligence, ranking and chairman were not involved. that was the stiond m. the gang of aismght usually that
is the group of top leaders responsible for looking into gedges matters like this that includes the top republican and democrat in each chamber and on each intelligence committee. that's why tre were two meetings. >> woodruff: this investigation, lisa, as we know, is about russia, whether there was a connection between the, trump campaie trump white house and russia. house of the white housese involved iing all this up? >> we have now seen actually the spinvestigatt. the mueller investigation is looking into any ties between russia and the trump campaign. but now there are questions and investigation, all of that investigation, how the f.b.i. has handled things, and today, one eyebrow-raising moment, judy, i saws i waite for the meeting at the senate with the gang of eight, who did i see? chief of staff john kelly, we knew he would be there, but left of the photo, that is emmett flood,he white house attorney handling the mueller investigation. when you think about this, judy,
you have a person representing the president and the white house, talking about classified information for an investigation that may include the president as a target. even some republicans were concerned, including lindsey graham who told me he found it odd and wanted to know why thatp ed. the white house and democratic sources say the white house officials did not get involved d the classifiction of these briefings but instead gave remarks. still, if they were arguing the president's case here, is an exceptional circumstance, democrat mark warner, top democrat in e senate intelligence committee, sent out trare strong statement from him sayi president, chief of staff and attorney have no business showing up to a briefing.intelligence there is real concern about lines being crossed here. s> woodruff: so after the briefing, democrade a statement, a short one. tell us about that. >> that's rthight. democrats ho how huddled for que some tthe afte meeting. they decided to send out one
representative, adam schiff, who 2read second statement saying we learned nothing new, feel thenoand left it at that. behind the scenes, judy, i know democrats are concey ed t not want to be looked at as undermining anyg invesion or leaking any classified information, but at the same time they believe this whole process is about undermining mueller. some republicans feel differently. >> woodruff: it's interesting republicans also said nothing. >> right. >> woodruff: potentiallyton fronting questions about whether they agree with the presint's charge. >> we got statements from prine in the first meeting. he basicallyaid i was happy we got this information and congress has an oversight role. in the end, judy, i don't thinka weed anything and it's not clear even our lawmakers learned anything. >> woodruff: that's what i was going to ask. th there any sense any new information, ary any closer
to understanding whether the president is right about whether the f.b.i. was spying on his campaign? >> if you listen to the ocstatement from dts, no. they say there was no new evidence today. but republicans have not spoken, in general, about the stance of this meeting. of course, it was classified. we as reporters, we as a natio d 't have any more information, and what we do have is a very difficult situation of what is distraction and what i important debate about the actions of our lawmakers. >> woodruff:urther sign this investigation is taking over so much of this city. >> we have t pay careful attention. >> woodruff: lisa desjardins, thank you. >> woodruff: now, we examine the last few weeks of diplomacy with north korea and the decision by president trump to call off the summit with kim jong un. foreign affairs correspondent nick schifrin is back for that. >> schifrin: thankou judy.
christopher hill served as both the chief u.s. negotiator with north korea during the george w. bush administration and as u.s. ambassador to south korea. analytical policy journal on north korea. welcome to you both. thank you very much. jenny town, let me begin with you., in your opiniwhy do you think this fell apart? >> i think the real challenge started when john bolton made the comments starting to talk about the libya model. we all know how libya turned out. if you areorth korea receiving those messages, you know, you've gotten the sense that the u.s. wants this process to be very quick. they want it to be, youno the security guarantees on paper. and, you know, without changing the actual nature of our political relationship. so if you're north korea, you're looking at this as sort of a veiled threat, and then the president following up afterwards by saying, oh, if you don't make a deal, you will end
up like libya. oftentimes the north koreans said before they're not going th negotiate gun to their head. so there is really the behavior that they've swn in the past couple of days and past couple of weeks is really predictable, given the way that they have been treated. >> ambassador hill, is this abouthe libya model and t administration's use of it or is there also a substantive disagreement about ture of denuclearization? >> i think there's a substantive sagreement. m not sure the north koreans were really ready t give up their nuclear weapons programs, especially as the trump administration has been saying in reese uppt weeks, we're not giving anything up, we're not going to bee the guys before, no sanctions relief, we're not going to do this until they've really given up all their programs. i thinthat probably worried them, and i think the trump administration got a little worried, especially whenome the north koreans took to the air waves to saythat somehow
you certainly don't expect us to give up our nuclear weapons for just economic assistance, which is actually what they are expecting them to do. so i think both sides got very nervous. i must say i hope the trump administration takes this as an wopportunity to rev its radiplomatic trade, review public messaging as they go toward a very d sficultmit and, frankly, i think there's room for improvement there. >> jenny town, you were shaking your head during that. do you believe north korea is serious about the negotiation process? >> irehink the serious about the denuclearization process. e u.s. only cares about north korea's nuclear weapons progm and sort of project w they think the north koreans want and have sorof discounted what the north koreans actually say they want. the problem is when the north koreans are approaing this, you know, they are looking at more of a holistic view of what that relationship actually means, so it's not enough just
to try and buy them off, but security guaraees mean nothing when you have no trust between your countries. so having something oern p even if it's signed, we've all seen agreements fall apart from ministration to administration as, you know, far back as the framework as to now as recent as the iran deal and john bolton was there for both instances. this is one of the cases where, sure, you might not believe, but if you don't try, first of all, you will never know. but certainly north korea is in a position right now where they were serious about notiations, they were doing unilateral actions to try to creat the momentum for it. but, at the same time again, they're not going todo it unilaterally or with a gun to their head. >> in that sense, they're not going to do it unilaterally or with a gun to their head. the u.s.xptations, were u.s. expectations going into the summit perhaps too hh? >> i think they're perhaps too high that somehow in juan-off
summit you could get the north koreans to say we're giving up all o weapons and giving them up now. that said the north koreans do ask force broader cs which is why when i was doing this we put together a peace treaty, we e t together cross recognition of states, wlked about a lot of different things in that henat, and it seems that the north koreans ask for these kind of broad things and you move heaven and earth in washington to get everyone to agree and you bring it back to the north koreans and vai voila, look -- voila, look what we've done, they seem to be disinterested in it. i'm afraid it comes down to the questi of denuclearization and whether they're prepad to do that. i told them with denuclearization everything is possible, i didn't go as far as president trump has gone in that regard, i said with it everything is possible, but if you don't denuclearize, frankly, blnothing is pos, and i think the stakes -- i think it's pretty stark and i think the north koreans reall do have some thinking to do because they need to decide whether heavy
nuclear weapons offers them a better future it does, and i think we ought to keep at it, and i do not agree with those whoay we need to accept somehow a nuclear north korea, kitd of live with nd contain it or something. i think we continue to need to do what the preside has been saying, which is denuclearization. >> jenny town, this a peninsula, we're talking about north korea, south korea, the u.s., south korean alliance. is there any threat to that alliance today? >> well, i mean, this is lya read way to have announced it. the way that donald trump did this was really the worst way possible and the worst timing ssible especially with moon jae-in just leaving washington thinking everything was on track. so it goes to some of the antagonism the scenes have ft under the administration, resurfacing and manifesting, once again, in a very important issue and one moon has put so much personal capital in as well, so it's rlly bad for them. >> ambassador, quick quickly,
what's left? t the u.s. say ball is in north korea's court. what's the lyle response and what are we expecting to see next? >> well, it was quite a remarkable letter that theth evidently put together there. i do hope the part win itch deal with continuing the dialogue are real. i think it's very important for the trump administration to have a fteam people, doesn't have to be the secretary of state, it can sbe the asstant secretary, could be an office director, but they need to be able to ke sounding out the north koreans on what might be possible. look, if north korea can come to the understanding that we can accept a lot from them but we cannot accept nuclear state, then i think things can be done, i think the president has tried in his own way to suggest that he's willing to live with north korea and live with them w vel if they give up their nuclear weapons. so i hope we can continue that and put away this mynuclear arsenal is bigger than yours.
>> we have to leave it there. ambassad jenny town, thank you very much. >> woodruff: stay with us, coming up on the newshour: why an economist says the people o invest your money should have "skin in the game." d e story of jack johnson, the boxing champion president trump posthumously pardoned today. but first, a case of police force in milwaukee that city ciofs admit was excessive. it is raising anger again about e treatment of african- americans by law enforcement. as amna nawaz reports, this case involved a professional basketball player, and included a lengthy body cam video from the police. >> do you have a drir's license? whers it at? backp? you don't see the issue here? >> don't touch me.
>> nawaz: the milwauige police last released body camera footage showing the arrest of stn.b.a. playeling brown. the officer confronted the milwaukee bucks player for parking violation, in the middle of the night in late january. >> nawaz: brown was wrestled to the ground and then tased. r! taser! tase taser! >> nawaz: brn was arrested, given a parking ticket and released with no criminal charges. his injuries, still visible during his next game. news reports today said the aukee police department suspended and plans to retrain two sergeants and an officer. both the mayor and the police chief apologized to brown. >> i'm sorry the incident escalated to this level. our department conducted an investigation into the incident, which revealed that members
osted inappropriately and members we're recently disciplined. >> nawaz: in a statement, sterling brown said he plans to atake legion against the milwaukee police department to "continue forcing change in our community." milwaukee mayor tom barrt also criticized the officers' use of force. >> this type of behavior has no place in our city. , nawaz: let's get some reaction to the caw the police handled it and what should change going forward. deray mckesson is an orgizer with project zero and the black lives matter movement. and david klinger is criminal justice professor at the university of missouri, st. s lod a former los angeles police officer. we invited milwaukee's mayor, police chief and representative of the police union. all declined or didn't respond to our offer. so thanks for being here to both of you. deray, iant to start with you. we heard the police department,
the mayor all apologized r the actions taken by the officer there, but the police union is tidefending the s saying the use of force will never look pretty but is unfortunatey a necessary component of policing. what's your response to that? >> it's good the mayor came out saying this was inappropriate, good the police chief came out saying is inappropriate. we have to be mindful they're saying the officers were disciplined but won'l us what the discipline was. anything that allows these police officers to still police communities in washington is not a good solution. the police union has an aggressive statement and come down and say the force was justified which was clearly not the case. they tasered him for no reaso none of that is okay. >> let's talk about what so many people have seen in the video. it's a 30-minute video. it's been viewed more than a million times which is twice the population of the city of milwaukee. how does it go from zero to 60
so quickly? >> let me challenge one assertion your guest made said it's obvious the use of force was inappr driate. 't know that. we can't see from the body cam exactly what happes d. how it gom zero to 60 is this, you had a situation where dia police officer not manage the confrontation that he got from mr. brown appropriately. as soon as you get resistance, as soon as someone starts to push back,ou have to understand, huh, i'm dealing with something other than a standard issue, in tis case parking ticket stop, and go ahead and try to calm things down. inead, what heid is he starts using language such as this is my spaceth. i ow space. now, the police officer has every right to control that spac but he doesn't need to explain it that way he could say, sir, you need to step back, le me explain why, i can't let you get access to this motor vehicle, that's a legitimate reason to create space between himself and the individual.
the officer called for an additional unit which is a good ulthing, andple units showed up. hony times, when a large group of police officersup to a situation where it really isn't warranted, the emoons kick up. so the combination of not managing the verbal interaction initially in an appropriate fashion, trying to deescalate is havingrm of art now, and multiple police officers show up when there wasn't the need for that many created a very tension-filled environment. >> you mentioned what we don'set in the video, we are relying on the one body cam here, whatou dohink could have happened? what would have justified that level of use of force?el >> you have a situation where a citizen refuses to comply with a lawful ordeand let's assume for a moment it was a lawful order to go ahead and keep your hands outf your pocket to mr. brown. mr. brown places his hands in the pockets.ce the of get apprehensive, go ahead and grab mr. brown. the question is i he is struggling against that, take him to the ground. n
i understand the use of the taser. i don't know why the officer who deployed the taser did so. when you have multiple officers in that close proximity and you've got the o individuthe ground, doesn't make a lot of ulsense why a taser be employed. but i want to read the police report and hear exactly fm mr. brown's mouth what happened so i can get a better sense of whether the tasinwas propriate or inappropriate. >> let's talk about what we know based on the video, too.he yo them going back and forth, sterling brown and the initial officer who confronts him about the parking violation. they even get into it afterwards when he's been hand couched and is stding there, they go back and forth about who initiated everything. do you think there's a sha of blame when it comes to the escalation? >> no. i'm reminded the police dont's get to willy-nilly come into people's lives or the communities or any of their perm spacfand just say you don't agree with them in that moment that that is just a crime, that that's resisting arrest. we know a third of all the
people killed in this country killed by a stranger a isually killed by a police officer. policenk of violence by that's pervasive in a challenge like this incident, we see no real accountasility. o with the police saying they have been disciplined, what does that mean? ctthe hey're being coy about what that means, i think this itheo, and i must disagree the other guests, i think it's clear, it's not clear to me at all why the officer stopped him in suchssn aggve way. it can't be just because the police say take your hands out of your pocket and do this and that, the community just have to comply with anything the police have to say because they're the police. we don't live in a police state and that is not the standard. as>> let myou about the accountability point deray isis g. they're saying three members of the police force have been suspended as a result of this. we don't know what else will happen. this is something milwaukee wants to stop and it's already cost taxpayers
$20 million in policeu miscoct since 2017, does that send a message that this behavior won't be tolerated? >> i don't believe it does because we don't know what theye disciplin before. my understanding is there are more officers involved. the officers are disciplined for a purpose which is a key question. if you're on t police side and say what are the guys disciplined for, we don't kw and how can you alter the behavior. stepping back to the assertions, when aolice officer has lawful warrant to stop somebody and clearly pngarour motor vehicle in a handicapped zone is a violation ofwa a mee ordinance or a wisconsin law, i don't know what the story is there, but then once the officer has a lawful stop, he or she has the right to control where you are and what you do and to keep yourahands in plain view. i'm sorry, if you engage in behavior where a pice officer has reasonable suspension to detain you or probable cause to arrest you, you have to do what he or she says. >> we see video aer video of similar encounters a lot and a
lot more tragically than this e, why is this so hard to crack? why can't this be fixed? >> it's so hard because we continue to gethe narratives that police have to comply with tanythi police officer says. >> that was the law. slavery was the law, too. i don't accept that wasus a thing and that people have to comply with unjust behaviors by police departments just because you don't want them do. >> keep your hands in plain view, how is that unjust. >> the fact people can taser people, that's unjust. if they tasered your son, it would be different. iit wasn't your son or somebody who looks likeou. one in eleven homicides in california is by a police officer. what about tha that is a problem. we should live in a world where we don'tio accept thence from the police. >> when people feel they're being askedo do something by a police officer that isn't just, do you still say they should comply request in that moment? >> absolutely. the courts ruled that is the
case. you comply and you file the complaint. now with body cams, so on and so forth, the evidence is there if the officer is doing something appropriate. if the detention is illegal and the officer is issuing illegal i commands thes redress. >> hue do you file a police complaint from the grave, wn you have been beaten and brutalized so badly you can't speak anymore, how do you do that? >> well, sirthis was not situation. >> exactly, you don't have an answer for that. that is becae the police continue to harm people in communities and it can't be just that youomply willy-nilly. >> sir, what you are doing is you are creati narrative for people to go ahead and refuse to comply with the police which is only going to exacerbate the problem. what i am saying is thatou the should comply with awful order to the police and the police need to learn how to do a better job of structuring interactions. i agree that the police did not act in a fully appropriate way in this fashion, but to run from that to an argument that people don't have to cply with the
police, when the police have lawful warrant to detain them, is wrong. nger, what do y want to see happen in police departments next? >> better training focusing on intwo , one interpersonal communication skills and two the management of space. so if we get police officers who know how to verbally cool people out and now how to manage space, we can reduce these acros the board. >> deray, i'll give you the last word. what do you hato say about what should happen next. >> there are people who want it to be a complicated issues that we need ten thousand series t'out. the one thing isabout race. >> no, it's not. the other is as long as the police have no accountability ntinoversight they will to do these things. >> deray mckesson, klinger, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> woodruff: this year marks the tenth anniversary of the crash 2008, which began with the demise of the investment bank bear stearns.
w people saw the crash coming but economics correspondent paul solman certainly approthe possibility, with, among others, investor nassim b. paul rec again to hear his latest concerns for our weekly series, making sense. >> reporter: back in 2006, when he was a hedge fund owner, econic contrarian nassim tal warned of a coming financial crisis in his then soon-to-be- published book, the black swan. asal understand it, your cen insight is that people underestimate the likelihood of rare events. >> exactly. and my idea is twofold, number one, that rare events happen more often, and, two, that, en they happen, they're far more devastating than we can imagine. >> reporter: more than a decade later, taleb believes there's a big con going on, and that the federal reserve's response to
the 2008 crisis is part of it. so what's the point of the new book? >> unless a person owns his or her risk, the system will eventually collapse. >> reporter: the whole system? >> the whole system. >> reporter: the book is skin in the game, which argues that a financial system wthks only if people who are running it have a stake in the outcome. >> and you should build a society in which people who make decisions are eventually zed if something goes wrong. >> reporter: tal gripe with both big government and big business today: thation >> it's that rise of the class, the no-skin-in-the-game class in decision-making. ople who intervene in ir thinking, "hey, we're going to bring democracy," orabstract concept. the thing falls apart, and they in the financial world, we have the same class, a lot of
has not, for example been reduced by the crisis. as a matter of fact, they were compensated. >> reporter: what risk are they posingo us now? >> the system is loaded with debt that has benefited these bankers. the chan of a certain bank now is making $23 million a year again in bonuses. >> reporter: that would be jamie dimon of jp morgan chase, and his 2017 bonus was actually $28 million, $5 million in cash and $23 million in restricted stock tied to performance. th megabanks weren't far behind. bank of america's brian moynihan and citigroup's michael corbat each got $21 and a half miion stock bonuses. and tim sloan, of scandal- plagued wells fargo, got a $15 million stock bonus. but the point is, says taleb, none of them had skin in the game, and continue to proceed risk-free. but if i'm a manager, c.e.o. of
a company have stock options, then i am punished if the stock goes down. >> no, not really, because you still have upside, net you have upside. >> reporter: you mean i'm never to have money taken away from me. >> exactly, whereas the taxpayer only has downside. the taxpayer will never have the benefit ofhat's going on, but we pay the price as taxpayers, in case something go wrong. >> reporter: because we're going to bail them out, you mean? >> of course, so we are real the people who are owning the risk. if people can make money transferring risk to others and aren't penalized, then the system will blow up. t'ss very dangerous, and unfair, it's immoral.r: >> reporut wait a second. didn't the federal reserve-- the instition charged with saving the banking system-- in fact save it, by creating new money through so-called quantitative easing? >> the federal reserve tried to cure debt with debt, transferring debt from one to the other, from the ivate to the public. >> reporter: what you mean is
that that federal reserve has created several trillionha dollars, ands money that eventually the american public, at least in concept, in theory, is going to have pay back? >> exactly.o those used the crisis are rich today. >> reporter: but didn't the federal reserve pour money into the system and keep it going and prevent the very paralysis that you were worried about. >> no, that was novocaine. >> reporter: you told me in 2008, yo to barter.uld be back it could be worse, i could quote you, it could be worse than the great depressik to the american revolution. >> let me tell you, in 2008, what it should have donet the time, first of all that we should have done, is immediately try to convert debt into equity, make sure the that caused the crisis were penalized, not regular people. i would like the federal reserve to understand that interest rates, very low interesttiates, quanti easing, drove people into higher end assets and stocks. who benefited from it? people who owned a lot of stocks
and people who owned real estate. we haven't really remedied what caused 2008. there's still a lot of debt in the system. >> reporter: so, how do we protect ourselves? >> i'm not telling you what to do, i'm going to tell you what i'm doin y >> reporte, that's what i want to know. what are you doing to protect yourself against the black swan. >> what i'm doing is i have a share of my money in currency. >> reporter: foreign currency, that is. >> maybe about 35%. plus i have some money that i spend to protect myself from crazy rise in interest rates. it may not happen, b paying that to sleep at night. >> reporter: and where is that? >> it's technical, like derivatives. to protect myself from a rise in-- >> reporter: so, if interest rates rise, you - >> dramatically. i don't think-- >> reporter: you would make money on these securities that you own. >> exactly. and then the rest is i own stocksn some real estate, i own the usual things. reporter: i had one las question. is the system today more fragile under president trump? you in favor of donald
trump? >> i was not against. trumcame in with very simplistic ias, but anybody with that same mindset, in other words "i'm not part of that group of people" would have been welcome. and there's some optimism, so let's see. but we have to do things to clean up the system of-- >> reporter: or, what's going to happen? >> the system laden with debt and with pseudo experts will collapse eventuall now it may be that miraculously, under trump, we may have a second wind and america may rise again, and pay the debt. >> reporter: you mean huge economic growth? >> that's my hope. but nevertheless, i'm a skeptic. he gotisease right. now whether he's going to fix it, i don't know. >> reporter: and, of course, neither does anyone else. for the pbs newshour, economics correspondent paul solman, reporting from new york.
>> woodruff: today president trump grted a rare posthumous pardon to jack johnson, boxing's first african-american heavyweight champion. john yang has more. >> yang: judy, in 1913 an onl- white jurycted johnson of violating the federal mann act, which made it illegal to transport women across state lines for "immoral purposes." the woman in question was johnson's girlfriend, who was white. johnson was heavyweight champ from 1908 to 191 outside the ring, he defied conventions by showing off his wealth, mocking white opponents and, perhaps most shocking for the times, dating and marrying white women. president trump signed the rdon in the oval office. >> i am taking this very righteous step, i believe, to correct a wrong that occurred in our history and to honor a truly
legendary boxing champion, legendary athlete, and a person that when people got to know him, they really liked him and they really thought he was treated unfairly. >> yang: the 2004 documentary "unforgivable blackness" tells the story of jack johnson and was directed by filmmaker ken burns, who joins us now on skype. ken, thanks so much for being here. you are one of those who were adcating for thisardon. what's your reaction now that it's a fact? >> thiis the right thing to do, and i'm just so happy that john mccain, who really led us through a decade and a lf in this, is going to live to hear about it. so'm very, very thrilled at this posthumous pardon and you have to understand it may be, in the only third posthumous pardon, all african-americans, which tells you a little bit about race in america. m >> ytioned john mccain.
what about the man who actually signed the pardon, president trump? >> well, you know, to me, this is something we have been add vo advocating for an awfully long time. it's very interesting johnson's private life as you described was quite controersial and involved not just marrying and sleeping with whomevetor he wand but also involved charges of violence, domestic violence. so there are some interesting things. the most important tng, i think, is it shines a light on the racism of that periobut also the racism of our period where code words and racist remarks still sort of populate our speech, and it is very, very harmful to an african-american man back then, jack johnson, who was the uisputed heavy weight champion of the world and arguably the greest of all time mohamed ali in his camp thght they were, and when ali sparred, they said ghost in the house, ghost in the hou, but almost for men of color today, almost daily we hear of
incidents of these things happening. so the pardon begins to remind us, i believe, of how much work we have the do, and the fact that it really begins with each one of us if we're really going to change this dynamic and live t, as dr. king said, the true meaning of our creed. >> help usnderstand more about who jack johnson was, how he ,ived his life in those tim and how that sort of fit into his times. >> you can't believe that he wasn't assassinated. hireign from the mid aughts to 1915 was a time when more african-americans were lynched for looking sideways at a white woman, more often than not. the fact he survived in his lifestyle and the atus he carried in his sport, the term the great white hope is when he won on boxing day in 1908, every
white contender went after him, he beat them all, and on july 4 he beat the biggest, retired star jim jeffries who had never been defeated, knocked him out in reno, nv nevada, and there were white-on-black riots tha killed a lot of african-americans throughout the country with a white race terrified this had some larger symbolism other than a man who, all hi, just wanted to be a man, and wasn't in migh anybos cause, didn't want to be a civil rights lea >> talk more about that that he did not see himself as a leader of a movement and compae him jackie robinson or mohamed ali. >> jackie robinson is the one who comes to mind most frequently. jackie robinson did understand the larger role he was playing. jack johnson wanteox, make money, he wanted to sleep with whomever he wanted, hwanted to live the way he wanted to. in some ways, he's a perfect
s erican, but we also have added in our demandr heroism people to be more than that and i think jackie robinson realized and assumed the burden of what hisymbolic act of trotting out to first base on3, april 1947, meant for civil rights. jack johnson wanted no such qualms. he wanted to live well and he did. >> filmmaker ken burns, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> woodruff:urns had a lot more to say about race relations then and now. you can find that and more on our website, pbs.org/newshour. >> woodruff: finally, we turn to another installment of our weekly brief but spectacular series. tonight, author and astrophysicist, neil degrasse tyson. for more than two , cades has served as director of the hohayden planetarium in hi town of new york city. tyson's latest book, "aysics for people in a hurry," is available now.
>> what i thinally happened, was that the universe chose me. i know that's not a very scientific sentence, but that's what it felt like the universe id, "come, neil join us. and yeah, i ver looked back, back at earth. i kept looking up i was starstruck at age nine. a visit to my local planetarium,. having been born in the bronx, i thought i knew how many stars there were in the night sky, about a dozen. then you go into the dome of the planetarium and then thousands of stars come out. i just thought it was a hoax. by age 11 i had an answer to that annoying question adults ways ask children, what do you want to be when you grow up? i said, astrophysicist. that usually just shut them up right there. nobody knew anybody who was an astrophysicist and then i'd get
back to the telescope. deniers are people who wish the world were a way that does not agree with the operations of nature, and that's a very believe what you want. i'm not going to even stop you. pwould just hope you don't rise er over legislation and laws that then affect other people who do understand how science works. that's dangerous. skepticism is, "i will only believe what you believe what toyou tell me in proportiohe weight of the evidence you presen" if you start speaking in ways where no kno law of physics supports it, then i'm going to be allver you with my epticism i'm recognized basicallyeveral hundred times a day. i wish i could put on a mustache and not be noticed but of course, i have a mustache. they don't care about me, tell about that black hole you mentioned a program i saw the other day.
or, will we ever travel through space? it's like, i'm just this, this smorgasbord of science food and i got them hungry from something i did before and they're still hungry and they want more. most of my professional effort is trying to glts scientifically literate. i think kids are born rious and if you fix the adult problem, the kids problem gets fixed overnight. but part of my confidence is i see this generation who's been since 1995, they're like teens, low 20s. that generation has only ever known the internet as a source of access to knowledge. i have very high hope and expectations for what world they will creat they actually assume the mantles of power. it's the gap between when they do and what's going on now that concerns me. it's the adults that may have
once been curious and forgot or there's a flamtathat has been ed down and you want to fan that flame and reawaken a sense of wonder about this w that we so often take for geented. when iyes light up because that moment was reached, i'm done. i'm neil degrasse tyson, your personal astrophysicist, and this is my brief but spectacular take on bringing the universe down to earth. >> woodruff: and you can watch more brief but spectacular videos online at pbs.org/newshour/brief. on the newshour online right now, companies are racing to launch the country's first "smart gun" on the market, but there's a problem: gun shops aren't likely to sell it. read all about it and much more on our website, pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, a hollywood duo the duplasrothers, chronicle
their directing and acting careers in book. plus the analysis of shields and brooks. i'm judy woodruff.jo us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs yowshour, thank you and se soon. >> major funding fhe pbs bnewshour has been provid >> knowledge, it's where innovation begins. it's what leads us to discovery and motivates us to succeed. it's why we ask the tough questions and what leads us to the answers. at leidos, we're standing behind those working to improve the world's health, safety, and efficiency. leidos >> kevin. >> kevin! >> kevin.
>> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymondjames.com. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporfor public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by nhour productions, llc captioned by media access roup at wgbh cess.wgbh.org ♪
elyse: we're the history detectives and we're going to investigate some untold stories from america's past. tukufu: this week, did these bullets end one of the most infamous crime sprees in american history? elyse: was this poem written by an american p.o.w. imprisoned in britoln during the revutionary war? wes: and cod this picture a rare 1700s drawing of washington by america's foremost portrait painr, gilbert stuart? ♪ watchin' the detectives ♪ i get so angry when the teardrops start ♪ ♪ but he can't be wounded 'cause he's got no heart ♪ ♪ watchin' the detectives