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mueller report. democrats are demanding more information while republicans insist it's time to mou on. pls, this week gavin newsom mark his 100th day of california. and a pioneeringlo psychogist reveals how subtle biases can have a big effect on how we view and treat others. hello, and welcome to kqed newsroom. we begin with ongoing fallout from the mueller report. investigators laid out numerous incidents where the president believes the fbi, justice department, and toho aidesd follow his orders even when they may compromise a criminal investigation. house democrats have now issued a subpoena to compel the justice departmento release to zbra
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congress the full unredacted report and underlying evidence by may 1st. it sets up a legal fight with attorney general william barr, who yesterday held a press conference before releasing a redacted version of the report. he reiterated his opinion that thie was no coll or obstruction of jusbyce president trump. but the reportlearly states mueller's team could not reach a judgment on obstruction and, therefore, does not, quote, exonerate him. here now to discuss this is congresswoman jackie speier of an mateo county. she joins from palm springs, california. nice so have you back onm. the prog >> great to be with you. >> what do you think are the most concerning findings in the mueller report? >> the mueller report was really a roadmap for congress because of the department of justice guidance about not indicting a sitting president. mueller's hands werely liter tied. so he created a roadmap and was very clear in indicate to go
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congress, you have got to ta a this bal run with it. there are ierious, and want to underscore serious, claimsbetha areng made in that mueller report around obstructionof justice and the area that is less focused on is that fir volume about the intervention by the russians and th counterintelligence efforts that were now being pursued by the muebyer camp having these cases referred out. so there is 14 cas, two of which we know of, 12 of which we do not. what is clear in his rert, particularly in volume one, is the russians used every they had. they used every platform. they ued social media. they used opportunities to meet with trump associates. and while you couldn't find a crinality, there was a
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willingness to work with russia in of coordinating the campaign and the message both by the russiansd by the donald trump campaign. >> does that amount to collusion in your md? and also the other issue is obstruction of justice. did you seein examples that report as well that you think amount to obstruction of justice? >> well, first of all, collusion is not a legal term. >> right. >> was there a conspiracy to coordinate? i think there was conspiracy to coordinate, but then you have to establish was there a criminal intent. no, the intent was just to win the election at all costs and using whatever resource they could. so he went as far as he could by indicting the internet research agency out of russia and a number of the principlals there >> you said your reading of the report is a roadmap. is it a t roadmap impeachment
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proceedings? do you think there should be peachment hearings? >> i think that the judiciary committee needs to have special counsel mueller come in and question him in a very thoughtful manner that will, i n lead them to more paths to pursue. and if that conversation is, as i think it will be, i think starting an impeachment process would be in order.u ow, our democracy is at stake here. the president has spent two years undermining our law enforcement agencies. he has criticized mueller. he has criticized the fbi. he has placed all kinds of roadblocks in th way of us doing our work. and then he hires bill barr, who has become his spokesperson. not the attorney general, the highest law enforcement officer
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of the united states on behalf of the american people, but president trump's mouthpiece. >> congresswoman -- >> and all that is -- >> congressman eric swalwell has called for attorney general barr to resign. resig think he should >> i think that attorney general impeached. be >> you do? >> i do. i actually think -- >> on what grounds? >> because he has so misinformed the american people. he did so intentionally. he made the decision that struction of justice did not take place. he basicallsaid that the president was fully innocent, and that is not what the special counsel mueller said. there is a reason why mr. mueller was not at that press conference yesterday. and i thinkt has lot do with the fact that he does not see his work product the same way that attorney general >> you sit on the house
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intelligence committee, yond committeehe house judiciary committee have called forl specounsel robert mueller to testify before you. what do you hope to hear from mr. mueller that you don't already know at thisro point h this very long report? >> so there is 400 pages in the report. there is thousands of pages of background documentation that i think he could help us in sifting through that. i think heo have a perspective. i think he hwill share the perspect with. i believe that his hands were tied because of the department of justice's guidanc i would als say that is not law. that is guidance. and it probably is incumbent on congress now to look at this. nobody is above the law. mueller said that himself. nobody, not the president of thd uni states. so the fact that there is this guidance by the department of justice d you can't indict a
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sitting president is, i k,thi suspect. and i would also say that's why impeachment becomes so iimportant. eachment of the president? >> correct. >> okay. and i have to ask you this because you didn't directly answer whether you think impeachment heargs should happen. you said give it a little more time, hear from mr. mueller first. if you don't hold an impeachment hearing, wi showing a culture of lying, a culture of deception, what message does this send to future prs sidents? d suggest they, too, can engage in all sorts of questionable behavior as long as they feel there is no political will in congress to impeach them? >> so the question is, or these high crimes andmisdemeanors? do the crimes rise to that level? i think that has to beexplored by the judiciary committee. that's why i would like them to that proceeding. but to actually go through the articles and then hav bit voted y the house is a much bigger
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step. i think you have to preliminarily do the review, have the discussions with the specialco sel, and then look at the crimes that -- and crimes,ou know, are different in a congressional tting. so we then need to look at it in those terms. >> some democrats have suggested that there needs to be so that we can have future presidents play by thele r what kinds of laws would those look like to prevent some this kind of conduct from happening in the future? >> well, first a foremost, we have to require every presidenal candidate to provide ten years of previous tax returns. the problem with donald trump is heas so many involvements around the world that can in fact influence his ascision-making on behalf of the american people on whether he has loans from saudirabia or russian banks or whether he
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has business dealings in those coedntries. we president who is thinking, first andst fore about the american people and not his personal pocketbook. >> i actually have introduced leslation that requires 20 years of tax returns for a presidential candidate to participate in the electoral process. >> aight. congresswoman jackie speier joining us from palm springs, california. we appreciate your ti. >> thank you. side from the extraordinary events at the naional level, ifek also highlighted a benchmark in calornia politic governornewsom's first 100 days in office which promises has he followed through on so far and what can we expect in the coming months. herer hoover institution fellow lonnie chen, college law professor david levine and washington cooperate for the "san francisco chronicle." she joins us via skype from the
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nation's capitol. welcome to youal. what has the scene been like in washington, d.c. the past couple of days after the mueller report was released? >> one of the things you have to realize about theh timing of release is that it came during the first week of lawmakers easter and passover recess. so the odd thing about it is that the halls of capitol hill were largely empty when this report was delivered. some aren't even in the country. this is a popular time to take snternational trips. nancy pelosi overseas in ireland doing sortto of through parts of europe. we had to get a lot of reaction in emails, in-box sort of statements. overall, i think that washington was really preparing for a report with a lot more redactions. you saw a lot ofprebuttle focusing on barr misconstruing the report in their eyes and preparing for this dogged fit to get the full report and underlying materials, and th r havenlly changed the
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script all this much. you see a few democrats going afterhe president and actually presidential candidate elizabeth warren has said they should start impeachment proceedings. by and d large, theocratic leadership is still focusing on barr and getting the report. they are still saying that even though tese redactions, which were i think a lot lighter than peep people yexpected, t still want the full thing. >> david, from your vantage poinas a law professor, is there anything in theroreport thart mueller could have justifiably concluded amounted to a crime but perhaps chose not to? >> i think that's what he did with the obstruction material. there is so mansnces that look like obstruction or attempted obstruction, and that what mr. mueller does is he say, that, wecause of the complications of being able to indict theif president and they were to, that you wouldn't have an indictment, so tsident couldn't fight back. they decided to shy away from that. and really obstruction things, it really is the situation that because mcgahna
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the other aides refused to do things or ignored directis at it is that mr. trump didn't commit obstruction of justice. the aides saved him. >> and basically president trump has declared ato total v as a result of the mueller report. is it a total victory for him? this lays out a really troubling case of culture of lying, a lot of deception. what do you make of it. > a few thing are clear. congress and the democrats in congress will not stop. they are going to continue to investigate elementthat come out of the mueller report and things that they have been thinking about for some time with respect to the president's personal financial dealings. now, more broadly for the president, i do think he can read it as a victory for two reasons. oneins nothing the report took this out of the realm of the political and put itnto the realm of the legal. in other words, all of his exposure is politica exposure which i think he feels more equipped to handle. it allows him to continue to come back to themes that
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knows is popular with his base. no cloougs, no obstruction. he canb talkt the things in an adversarl way that allow him to continue to pitch his base and why ticy out toought t stick are him in the 2020 cycle. i think it is still a victory he can claim. >> you mentioned about senator elizabeth warren callinr impeachment proceedings. there is a growing call by her and other democrats for this to happen. couldrhis divide the demic party as we head into the 2020 presidentiaelection? >> i think it already is. i think the best news for the president and coming out of this report is i don't think there n was anything it that substantively change add lot of minds. in fact, a l ohat was in the report we sort of already knew because of the dogged investigative work of the prn s. weird way the drip, drip, drip of news saved him from thet impact thatis report would have had if we were all reading some of these details fresh for the first time. but you are seeing some democrats now more comfortable
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going forward with using the "i" word inan action. alia ocasio-cortez who is a fire brand now in the progressive left, she is leading articles of impeachment. elizabeth warren w first out of the gate of the presidential candidates saying mpeachmentes proceedings should be initiated. the california pilanthropist and billionaire who started an oregon pushing forric impeachme. it already is creating tension and democrats are really going to have some soul searching going forward over how they think is the best way to play this very much away ware we are in the mid of a presidential cycle already. >> david, let's say, can he be indicted on somes of the thi that were laid out in this report after he leaves and what is the statute of limitations on those things? >> sure. the answer is yes, he, coud in fact i think part of what mrl
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m did is that he explicitly says they were preserving everyday and they do stay one audien would be congress. another audience once mr. trump lees office it may be that other prosecutors will take it up. on obstructioof justice it's a five-year statute of limitations. >> he is re-elected, could he run out the clock? >> on the events in 2017, yes. if we are talking about him not getting out of office until 2025, yes, you could run the clock on those. if he does not win re-election, he would be vulnerable ons uction of justice charges. >> okay.y and attornegeneral barr was not busy only with the mueller report this week. he issued an order on asylum on his order that he put out basically prevents certain asylum seekers from beg released on bond while their cases are pending. how poes thecess currently work and what does this decision mean? >> well, what it means is
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for people who have entered illegally, meaning not at theor standard of entry, that they would be held without bond. that's what mr. barr is directing. he also said that the order won't take effect for 90 day in part s the officials can get ready, but also that's going to provorde the opportunity legal challenges. the idea that they can be held without bond, without any opportunity for bond, is pretty surprising. the timing on these hearings running at least 700 days now, and if we are going to start athering up more and more and more people seeking asylum, those times are only going to stretch out further and further. >> and with this asylum order again it doesn't take affect for 90 days, but will this policy change anything in of how many people are trying to cross the border? >> i don't know that it will. i think fundamentally what it highlights is the inability of congress to act. this isre aonsibility of the congress to act to reform the immigration system. even on the asylum system or the asylum process specifically, reforms to the asylum process,
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the number ofn immigratudges to process these cases. this is something that congress should be handling, quite frankly, but what we're seeing now over the last several years is action that happened onim gration has been via executive action, whether it was he craigslist of the daca program by president obama, child separation issues, which president trump addressed early in his term and now the question of asylum. really it's beyond the scope of what the executive should bed ling with. >> let's turn to state politics. this week marks governor gavin newsom's first 100 days in office. he put out an announcement, reigning in prescription drug costs, amoratorium on the dea penalty. how would you assess his performance so far? >> one of the interesting things is h how muhas managed to make himself a national figure already. you know,e really forward-leaning move to put the moratorium on the death penalty especially because you have kamala harris running for pre dent. anythi does like that
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immediately inserts itself into the presidential debate and then the more national conversation among democrats. you know, we have seen th from gavin newsom in his history. he was very forward leaning on gay marriages, for example, and you have sehis ability to sort of inject things into the tional democratic conversation. and so, you know, he also played into the national conversation in a way he probably might wouldn't wantit to take back the high-speed rail announcement that was fumbled and happened at the act same time the green new deal was being discussed in shington and makes a push for high-speed rail. republicans seized on it as an example of why that wouldn't work. we so seen it play both ways. has beeninating how he able to make thatio natnal impact. >> high-speed rail and he also warned cities and counties they could lose theirad repair funding unless they met state goals for housing. then he backtracked on that, too, and said, hey, we'll set it aside for four years.
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some too quick to jump on of these ideas? >> being an active governor is a change from what we have seen al the last sev years. if you talk to sacramento insiders these first ation about him is how different the case and paidens of his administration is fromberry wn. think it's an active attempt to contrast. there is no penalty for him so far for overstepping or no penalty for being ac. >> translator:. why not? where not pursue the priority policies. >> could it backfire? could to make it seem harder to tell what his main friars are when he is going so rapid fire? >> it could be. the death penalty, the focus on ss, health care, giving medi-cal to undocumented immigrant those are things that i think will put him in good stead whether he succeeds or not. >> and i think these are very popular in california.
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sometimes he is ahead of the curve. less so if y think about his base here in california. >> did levine lonnie chen with the hoover institution and tal koppen in washington with the "san francisco chronicle." thank you all. >> thanks. now to an examination of implicit bias. jennifer eberhart is a social psychologis at stanford university and the 2014 recipient of the mcarthur genius grant. her wor her works the way uonscious bias can have profound effects in society. in her book she says we can all get better at spotting situations that trigger stereotypes and shares her experiences how to fight them. joini me is professor jennifer eberhart. nice to have you here. n>> thank you for hame. >> you say in your book that racial conditioning starts young, even as young as 3 months old. how does that happen?
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>> yeah. so researchers have found that infants as younnt as 3 of age are already showing a preference for faces of their own racialro. so it happens partly because of how our brains are wired, but partly because of the faces that we are exposed to normally. to thextent that we live in segregated spaces, we are exposed to faces of ou own racial group. and so our brain gets practiced up on that and then that affects us. >> so with this inherent racial bias, you said it intensifies over time. what drives it toecome stronger? >> so i don't know intensifies over time is the -- i think that, you know, as -- when you are young and you're a child, you d't show mays much bias as, you know, as an adult would. d part of that is just kind of trying to figure out sort of what the stereotypes are abous
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the vari groups. sometimes when you are young, you don't know what the social categories are,ps what the gr are. and so as you leay that and as sort of learn more about how these various groups are positioned in the world, then you can experience, you know, and express more bias. >> we heard about how stereotypes can affect people are different races in criminal juste,e, for examut also even in education, right. you cite a study byocial scientists that i found very interesting in your book. you say that study described a phenomenon called whitening the resume where even college students whar looking for jobs are responding to implicit bias in interesting ways. what ahey doing? >> yeah. well, they were sort of trying to downplay their racial group membership in order to, you know, be more sort of marketable on the job parmarket. so that would mean maybe whitening their names. and s you know, black
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applicants, for examp instead of pudding, you know, jamal, you know, andrew jackson would maybe wri j. andrew jackson, something like that. same with asian applicants were whitening their resum├Ęs through their names and also through, you know, theinds of activities that they said they liked to engage in. they were more inclined to put down activities that awere more citing like snowboarding. so it be more retable so people would think they could fit in. >> we know that implicit bias affects a broad section of society from education, employment, the cri justice system. despite the fact that many business executives and teachers and police officers don't view themselves as biased. how do we begin to address that? >> yeah, i think one sort ofig ssue is just how we define what bias is. i think h that peoplee the
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sense of bias as people who are burning crosses and people who are filled with hate and so forth, but when we talk about unconscious bias or implicit bias we are talking about befs i beliefs and these feelings that people have about social groups that can influce the you know, even without their awareness. so you don't needs intention. you don't need motivation to, you know, do badil or e things. it's just something that's there that these associations are builtp er time. >> how do you teach people to recognize that and stop them from resulting in prejudicial behavior to people from her ethnic or racial groups? >> one way to help people toe recognit is to help them to understand that we are not always actingon our biases. so there are ctain conditions or there are certain situations that make bias more likely than others. so learning what those conditions iare, think, is
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pretty critical. >> can you give an example? just the one example is we're more likely to act on bias when we make cities really quickly. so when we're forced to think re more likely to rely on the sort of automatic associations that we have built up over time. and so that's going to potentiay affect our decision-making. >> so maybe step back? >> step back, slow down, yeah. and to take your time. sort of think things urough. >> orked a lot with police departments, including the oakland police department, and have they adopted some of the these procedures and has it worked for them in measurable ways? >> yes. so since i have been there we've work with the department to to add a question, a simple question to the form that they complete when they make rcutine trafstops, and that question -- >> what is the question? >> the question is, was this stop intelligence led, yes or no? is this aheck box, yes or no.
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they mean was the stop -- could you actually tie the specific individual to, you know, some, you know, particular crime. and just stopng -- slowing down again and slowing down and thinking about that, that leads officers to think about whether the tstop is a high s prioritop and all of that. >> not based on something prejudicial? exactly. that led to a huge drop, by 40%, in the number of stops made from one year to the ext. >> whout this concept of colorblindness? not seeing color, nut thinking abrace, is that a solution? >> right. i think many people believe that it i but the research should give us pause on that, right, because the research shows that when you tech children to be colorblind or we try to be colorblind, we not only not see color, but we cannot see discrimination. so if we are trying to be colorblind because we are interested in, you know,
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furthering rndial equality that kind of thing, then it'spr ducing the opposite where we are, you know, more inclinedo ort of ignore inequality rather than combat it. so it's not the collusion solut think it is. >> very interesting. so much more we could discuss. thank youor your time. jennifer eberhart. the new book is "biased". that does it for us. as always find more of our coverage at kqed.org/newsroom. thank yofor joining us.
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