tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX December 15, 2013 6:00am-7:01am PST
marks an anniversary. plus, when so little action after the national outrage, we'll sit down with key figures on both sides of the gun debate. mark kelly, husband of gabby giffor giffords, and larry pratt. as lawmakers on capitol hill try to avoid another government shut down. >> in a divided government you don't get everything you want. >> the plan deepens the divide inside the gop with speaker boehner slamming outside conservative grouping. >> they're pushing members in places they don't want to be and i think they have lost all credibility. >> we'll talk with one of the architects of the deal, paul ryan. and our power player of the
week, molly ringwald life after being the it girl of the '80s. >> i don't think being a star, just being famous, is very fulfilling. >> hello again from fox news in washington. no matter how many times we see the images, it's still agonizing. kids screaming out of school, hands raised. a boy injured one girl before taking his own life. >> one of the victim that's day, vic vi vickisoto, died learning to protect some of her students.
we'll discuss where the gun debate stands with two people on opposite sides of the issue. first, my interview earlier with her kid sister, carly. >> how are you doing? >> we take it day by bay, we have bad days and good days. we just try to take it day by day and feel the feelings as they come. >> what's a good day? >> we just had a new little baby born in our family, so that was a good day, but it's also sad because vicki never got to meet madeline victoria. >> named after her? >> yes. >> the picture you got on your cell phone has become our image of our heartbreak of that day.
as we mark the first answ anniversary, how do you feel about dredging it up? >> i can remember everything that day, everything that somebody said to me. every smell, every person, it's so vivid to me. >> the fact that it's all being brought up again, is that hard for you? >> it's very hard. i'm just trying to keep myself busy and think of the anniversary as just another day. every day without vicki is extremely hard. it's just another day without for me. >> vicki has been honored for her extraordinary courage that day. she literally put herself in front of the rifle to protect her students. i have to think as her kid sister in a way all of that doesn't matter, you just miss
her. >> i would give back everything just to have my older sister back. it's amazing our country has recognized them as heros because i know my sister would have done anything to save more of her kids. 11 of them are able to have a future, they're able to grow up and have a life. >> there was national outrage after newtown, calls for more gun controls, a universal background check. i know you were in the gallery the day the senate voted that down. >> it was extremely hard to watch them come in and vote no on something so sensible. it's a background check and it only takes 90 seconds. it's not preventing anyone that should not have a gun. it was hard for that to happen,
and to see it happen, but like president barack obama told me and vice president biden told me no one ever thought slavery would be abolished, or women would have a right to vote. >> i know you gone out around the country to argue for more gun controls, i have to think that has to be tough for you because part of you would probably like to get as far away from this as possible. >> it's hard, there is days i don't want to do this, i don't want to speak on camera, i don't want to talk in front of a group of people, but my sister can't do that. so there's so many people that can't be advocates and i know i can. >> as we mark this first anniversary and think back to the horrible events of that day, what would you like us to remember about vicki?
about how she lived and how she died. >> my sister was an amazing person all around. she loved teaching and that's all she wanted to do was be a teacher. and she did everything in her power to save those kids. i know that she wouldn't have done anything differently. it's sad that i will never be able to have a conversation with my sister, but at the same time i'm so thankful that she was able to save so many of her kids in that classroom that day. it's hard, but i'm so, so proud to say i'm victoria soto's little sister. >> we'll, carly, if i may, our best go out to you and your family during this holiday
season, and we're just as proud of her as you are. >> we spoke to mark kelly, whose wife gabby giffords was shot. captain kelly, i have to say you have not had much success, congress passed no major new gun legislation and let's take a look at what the record is in the states. they passed 109 new gun laws, but two thirds of them loosen, not tighten. how do you explain that? >> you chalk it up to politics. we have not had much success in dc. we have had success around the country. you point out it's two thirds that loosen some, but in places
like colorado and delaware they passed extended background check bills. we have had the recent races in virginia where this issue was discussed, not only around the state, but during the debates, and we saw success that as well. >> is it true you're foe kugs more on the mental health side of this, better treatment and more effectively reporting on people that have mental health problems? >> this is not one reason why we have a horrendous rate of death from gun violence. but i still strongly believe that the first thing we should do is require a background check before somebody can buy a gun but you know the mental health
aspect of this is significant as well. >> you're focusing more on politics, trying to change the map. a super pac, and a pact to contribute money to candidates -- do you really think that you can beat the gun lobby which in the first six months of the year outspent you 10 to 1. >> i don't know if they outspent us 10 to 1, in virginia we spent about the same amount of money that the nra did and you saw the results there. we don't have to compete one to one with any organization. i think we need to bring some balance to equation. for so long it was just the gun lobby that was communicating
with the constituents and the members of congress. we're going to get members of congress to think differently about their next election and then i think we'll see some real change. >> you talked about success in passing laws in colorado, but that's only part of the story. there was a recall election, and two top state senate democrats were recalled and forced out of office. >> when, john morris before he took this issue on, he said this could cost his seat in the state senate. and they knew going in that this could ask their outcoffect thei i don't think recalls should be used on somebody who was doing their job. the law is the law of the land, and overtime that background check law will have a positive
effect in the state of colorado. >> you're running a tv ad right now that shows scenes of the scenes of newtown with the song "silent night." >> captain, when you look back over the last year, the national outrage, initially over newtown and then the lack of action, especially at the congressional level, do you honestly ever get discouraged. >> yeah, we do -- after what happened in april when the bill was not passed. a bill supported by 92% of americans and over 70% of nra mechan
februar members. politics is a tough fight, i'm confident that in the long haul we'll be successful. >> captain kelly, thank you for joining us today, sir. >> now for the other side of the gun debate, larry pratt, do you see the failure to pass any new major gun legislation on the congressional level and not much on the state level, do you see that as a victory for gun rights? >> chris, we're not really able to talk about a victory until we get rid of the laws that prohibit people from being able to protect themselves in schools and public places. every pass murder has occurred in a place where guns were prohibited. >> so you're saying it's not a victory that you stopped more gun legislation, you want to see more of the legislation rolled
back? >> yes, the legislation on the books is lethal, it's killing people. these gunfree zones are murder magnets and we need to get rid of them. it's an illusion to think that we'll be safer because we can't have a gun in a particular area. the bad guy will have a gun. >> how do you explain the fact that we had a huge national outrage after gun down, and so many people supported more background checks. >> i don't agree with those polls. i don't think 90% of americans agree on anything. it didn't find it to jive.
gun owners of america don't put any credence on those polls. >> let's talk about the problem because when owe see, and we have over the last year seen continued acts of violence whether it was that shooting on friday in a colorado springs high school, shootings in workplaces, in other public places, shopping malls, how do we stop it? i want to put what president obama, who addressed the issue in his weekend media address, that's what he had to say. >> we have to do more to heal troubled minds. >> mr. pratt, how do you answer the president? >> the president is looking at it through the wrong end of the telescope. the problem is not how are we going to keep bad guys from getting guns, they're going to get guns. when do we stop good guys from
having guns so when a dirt bag goes into a mall or a school, people can protect themselves with their own gun. >> you certainly would agree, wouldn't you, that people with a criminal record or mental illness should not have guns, correct? >> the idea is not to keep bad guys from getting guns, they're going to get guns. the background check is futile. something like 42 last year of record were prosecuted for trying to buy a gun with a criminal record out of 11 million. it is not a crime fighting tool, to rely on the background check it's not going to be effective. we have to be able to protect ourselves, not rely on something like a background check. >> since it first came in, hundreds and thousands of people have been denied guns because they failed to check. some will be able to still get
guns, but particularly a fella who is not a hardenned criminal, but has a real mental problem, maybe that's the different between getting his hands on a gun and not? >> if we're really serious about people who have some kind of problem, mental or criminal, they ought to be in jail. not just to think that somehow saying you can't get a gun, going down the street we're not going to bother with you. >> you just heard mark kelly, we also heard michael bloomberg say that they're going to spend $25 million in the next election cycle, do you this will be a big issue? >> i'm not sure that the money billionaire bloomberg has is
going to be effective. he outspent the candidates that won in colorado enormously. so i think the message is we don't like the force of power, we don't like being told we need to be unarmed. so he will continue to lose. >> thank you nor coming in and giving us your side of this debate. >> thank you very much. now to the other side of the globe, south africans said goodbye to nelson mandela. several thousand guests attended the funeral of the man that helped his country at the end of apartheid. one of the authors of the plan, paul ryan, answers conservatives next. and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america.
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it's been a long time, but there was actually a spirit of compromise on capitol hill this week. the house passed a bipartisan budget agreement that the senate is also expected to improve. for all of the good cheer there was plenty of criticism, especially from the right. earlier i spoke with paul ryan,
patty murray declined our invitation. >> thanks for having me back. >> your budget deal opened a bigger split in the republican party, between the leaders that supported it and tea party groups that opposed it, some before it was even announced. here is house speaker boehner this week. >> the day before the government reopened, one of these groups said we never really thought it would work. are you kidding me? >> are you getting fed up with outside groups that talked tough? >> i think these groups are valuable. they're part of our conservative family. i prefer to keep these conversations within our family. john was frustrated because they came out before we reached an agreement, but i see them as
indeexpenseble. keep washington accountable, and they helped us get our ship righted again. i think what we're doing here today, we have two thirds of the house conservatives voting for this, i think it's a step in the right direction. >> you're also taking heat from some fellow republicans in in congress and some might say because soft some potential rivals for the 2016 president election. here is marco rubio. >> over the next couple years, they will forget it and keep borrowing more. >> what do you say to him? >> i would like to talk to him about it. we're making permanent law charges, per innocent spendiman
cuts. so we're paying for $63 billion of seacrester relief, half going to defense. we're maintaining 92% of the sequester in this deal, and prevents possibly two government shutdowns from happening here. >> i want to put some of these numbers up on the streep. you bust it by spending $62 billion -- >> can i stop you right here? >> while you reduce deficit by 85%. the biggest complaint is that you're trading definite spending increases right now in return for the promise of deficit reduction, as one critic put it, during hillary clinton's second term. >> we're not busting sequester caps. in the next two years, 70% is in
tact. 92% of the sequester over the life of the sequester is in tact. the democrats said do the entire sequester. now we have agreed to 70% of it now. as i mentioned before, changing entitlements and what we call mandatory spending, the auto pilot part of government, those are permanent law changes. the hardworking taxpayers that pay for those don't have to change as much. that's not a promise that might happen lay ere, it is happening now. and to stop those savings, a new congress would have to change a new law to prevent that from happening. look at the detailing to those criticizing it. no tax increases, net deficit reduction, permanent spending
cuts. -- >> but the criticism is, you say we don't best them, but you let it leak. >> yeah, we relieve it. >> you spend $60 billion more than you would have. critics say ewe going back to the days of spending more and taxes more. because there is new revenue. >> there is no taxes in this. there is user fees saying let's have a user pay for the government services they use, if a person gets on a plane, why don't they pay for their security instead of the person that never gets on the plane. this is divided government. the budget that we pass in parch, that balances the budget, it pays off the debt entirely, it's our vision, it's our goal. that's where we ultimately want to go.
this doesn't substitute for that. i'm not trying to oversell this, it's an enormous budget accomplishment, it's not, but it's important that it prevents government shutdowns. it's important that it rejects tax increases. one for one, one dollar mandatory, this goes beyond that -- >> i want to talk to you about -- you say, and quite frankly so, you remove the threat of government shutdowns for almost the next two years. on the other hand we have a debt limit crisis that will come up in the next couple months. should republicans risk a default crisis, the president will say you're going to send the country into default, by demanding more progress on spending or do you cave and say look, we're going to kick this can down the road and focus on oba obamacare. >> one step at a time, chris.
so we sought to find common ground to find this problem. this being a shut down possibly in january and another possibly in october. we have our principals established here. >> are you going to demand more in return for raising the debt limit? >> we, the caucus, will meet and discuss what we want to get out of the debt limit. we don't want anything out of the debt limit. we will decide what question accomplish by one of the problems and concerns i have which is we don't know when it will hit. jack lou had ultimate discretion on when this could occur. so the timing on this is very much in doubt. we're going to meet in our retreats and discuss exactly what it is that we will get for this. >> in the bill, the remembers extend the so called dock fix. you avoid a major cut in cuts to
doctors. but you do nothing to extend unemployment benefits for the 1.3 million people that will lose it. and they say that's exactly what's wrong. you care more about doctors than unemployed. >> this came with spending cuts for the doc fix. in the 11th hour when they asked to put it in there, they had no way to pay for it. a 13th extension from the emergency 2008 crisis, we have evidence showing it will prolong unemployment. our focus is getting people back to work. we want jobs. we want to create jobs so we don't have people going on unemployment in the first place. provide some certainty, prevent government shutdowns, and get the economy going again.
>> all right, 30 seconds left, you and patty murray sat down and arrived at this deal. it's a first step, but it's no grand bargain. do you come away in 30 seconds thinking a grand bargain is possible or basic principals, entitlement cuts, that it's just too big? >> i don't think with this president or this senate we're going to have something like that. that's why i think we need to win a couple elections. this, i think, healths us bet doer that. it's good for the country. it allows us to focus on obama care oversight, laying out a conservative vision, we'll have to win the senate and the white house to truly fix this country's fiscal problems. i don't think this country and senate are willing and able to do it. >> thank you for coming in today, merry christmas to you. our sunday panel comes
around next to discuss the pros and cons of this not so grand bargain on the budget. plus, what would you like to ask the panel, ask on twitter and we may ask your question on the air. here's a question for you: where does the united states get most of its energy? is it africa? the middle east? canada? or the u.s.? the answer is... the u.s. ♪ most of america's energy comes from right here at home. take the energy quiz. energy lives here. you stand behind what you say. there's a saying around here, take the energy quiz. around here you don't make excuses. you make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up, and make it right.
and what we have done in the last few years has not violated any conservative ideals. house speaker boehner and mike lee showing the divide in the gop that passed the house this week. it's time for our sunday group. brit hume, julie pace, bill cristol, and bob woodward. speaker boehner seems to have gone out of his way this week to hammer some groups, and he says those groups are using their republican members to build organizations and raise money. >> there is a war within the republican party and there is a certain set of outside groups that have opposed so many things that the republicans have tried
to do, and actually pass, and who are satisfied with nothing that you could ever get through the senate or past the president. and there is enough people in the country with money in their pockets that went to spend on politics that keep these groups flush as long as they keep up their opposition and it's worked very well for them. >> is it helpful for boehner to take them on? >> i think it may imbolden the caucus. he was not strong enough in the negotiations that led to the shut down. he let them have their way and they tried this defund strategy that led to a shut down. he feared it would be unpopular, and it was, and that they would get nothing out of it, and that's exactly what happened. mitch mcconnell in the synthetit
going to vote for this because he has a primary challenger. >> let's talk about the other end of pennsylvania avenue, the white housing the narrative that between the bipartisan budget deal, and something of a staff shake up, i don't know if it's really a shake up, that they can jump start the president's second term agenda including on immigration reform. julie, our woman at the white house, do they really believe that? >> i think what they believe publicly is a little stronger than what they believe privately. it takes the threat of a shut down off of the table. and then next year we can sit and stair at each other or try to -- they're certainly going to try it again, i don't know if this budget deal changing the
dynamic that exists around washington. but again, what is our other option? >> we're asking all of you to send us questions on twitter or facebook. we got this one on twitter about the budget deal. why are gop for this? it does nothing to stop the bleeding now. bill, let many ask how you would answer dave. i remember paul ryan talking about the main drivers of the debt, entitlements. >> president obama won't do it, it's a good short-term deal, limited objectives, it gets money for defense which is much needed. it is not the big deal. there's not going to be a big deal. i think paul ryan accomplished something important. i think they will look back in two months and say that was the
last shock, john boehner taking all of these hits in the last budget month. so what ryan has done is cleared the deck. there will not be a firing squad in january over a government shut down. as long as they can handle the debt ceiling, they can look forward to the next year in focusing on obamacare. it's a political matter for the republican party, and a substance, if you care, is pretty effective. >> i want to pick up on your point. barack obama won't do anything about entitlements because having read your book "price of politics" bob, he says that obama said democrats have to get serious about it, but it seems in this deal that congressional democrats want to keep holding that mantle as the protector of
entitlements. >> i think this deal worked, quite frankly. let's go right to the center of this because obama was not part of the zoenegotiation. paul ryan comes off as somebody, he is a conservative, but the philosophy that he employed here is very significant. sitting down with the democrats and saying what is our common ground? what can we agree on? and it is indeed small, but it is a step forward. and what it does is it strengthens ryan, but it also strengthens boehner in a very, very significant way. it got way over 300 votes for this. it's the ultra right wing, and the outsiders, so it puts them
in a position to deal with some of these things. >> before we say it's all good here, the fact is there won't be a government shut down, but they'll have v to deal with a government shut down, he basically said we're going to demand something. the president's position in october was no deal, no negotiating, will he stick to that? >> yes, and the republicans said we have to get something and the president is saying we won't give you anything. i think there is always ways to work things out so both sides can claim they got that position, but the real question about the budget deal is if it doesn't change the approaching from the real conservatives when it comes to the debt ceiling.
>> what is it that president obama held out for that he would not give in in early october. maybe they should just delay oba obamacare for a year. >> but with all of the conservative criticism, brit, of this mini deal on the budget, can they raise the ceiling without getting something in return. >> shutting down the government over the budget is unpopular, making a big fight on the debt limit, the increase of which is very unpopular, it polls terribly, has the republicans on stronger political ground and in better position to demand something. i still think if the government shuts down it will not work for republicans. >> when we come back, more
deadline changes for obamacare. our panel has some answers. does it end after you've expanded your business? after your company's gone public? and the capital's been invested? or when your company's bought another? is it over after you've given back? you never stop achieving. that's why, at barclays, our ambition is to always realize yours. if hey breathing's hard.me, know the feeling? copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms.
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. i think the statement about keeping your plan was one that was -- it is applicable to the vast majority of americans in the health insurance market. >> health and human services kathleen sibilas saying that the president didn't mislead the county. well as the healthcare.gov improves, they're now requiring
insurers to cover people who don't pay their premiums until december 31st, and they're encouraging companies to cover people retro actively and also to let them see their old doctors even if they're no longer in the network. this january 2nd when people have to go to doctors and don't no which doctor, it could be the next mess for obamacare. >> it makes a lot of people nervous. people who have gotten through and think they have coverage will start going and trying to use that coverage. if they can't, there will be a whole host of problems on the political spectrum and on the policy side. i think what is interesting about these changes is that they are intended to make this easier for people. when you talk to some of the insurance companies, they're quite confusing. you have stating running their
own system. i think you will have to see whether the intention of this will be carried out. >> bret, we're also learning, and not surprisingly, that they must accept all customers regardless of their pre-existing condition. some they're saying, well, the pill you must take to stay alive, that won't be covered. so they found a loop whole. >> that's what they do, they try to make their risk pools as narrowly drawn as possible so they can avoid having to pay out the benefits. that's what they do. it's how insurance works. if you have too much risk in your pool, you don't make money, you don't do business, you go down. i question how terribly widespread this is, but i have
no doubt it happens. i think the problem is insurance companies can be blamed for this and the insurance company and defenders will no doubt do that. the problem is that it has been such a disaster that i think the law, and the policy, gets the blame when anything goes wrong, whether it is the insurance company's fault or the law's fault. >> i think the general feeling is that the website is finally getting better, but you see all of these problems cropping up, and i just imagine people on january 2nd, i assume they'll be watching bowl games on the first, but going to a doctor, not having an insurance card. not knowing if they're covered or not, it could be a real mess. >> it already is a real mess, i don't know how you untangle it,
they have to get a new subject here. and you know, whether the details of this are always going to be visited upon them to a certain extent, they can't get out from under this. and you know, in my newspaper this morning, there is an opinion piece about the person who had the worst year in washington is obama. and there is a certain truth to that, but the white house needs to find a way to start talking about things in a lot of these negatives, but we have not had a big terrorist attack, we don't have a new war as lots of people would like to have, and it's good we don't have that. the economy is advancing, and the white house has to find a way to get out from under this, and it is maybe literally impossible because the president and his team in the white house have appointed themselves
mission managers for obama care. >> i want to pick up on this macro look at all of this. you have spent -- you and others have spent your career making the conservative argument, and saying that big government isn't the way to go. is it possible that barack obama could be a more effective spokesman and could do more to help the conservative cause than any of you on the right ever have? >> sure, all of the conservatives riding against it in the west. what republicans have to do over the next year is not let people forget who is responsible for this. also, i think try to propose ways to let people escape the nightmare. republicans tried to do this in november with their bill, there
is, for example, people that can buy temporary health insurance. they should wave the penalty and let people buy it. and it will let people escape this problem that president obama has upon millions of americans. >> but it's too late. >> one year to let people select -- >> the republicans liked it it would sail, good luck. >> i will say to get to this larger point, inside the white house there is the immediate short-term conversation about how to fix obama care, but there is a broader conversation about the hits they're taking on the general philosophy of government that barack obama and democrats have been proposing for years. when you have people running for reelection in 2014, and
democrats running in 2016, how much of this debate -- >> are they really talking about this is really hurting the whole competency? >> kplutly, thabsolutely, this conversation they have. >> how do they change that? >> they make the law work. that's the only way to convince people that covet can run a large operation like this. >> you talk about a bill sailing through, i can't imagine republicans want to let barack obama off the hook. >> i disagree with with that. i think republicans would support it in droves. >> see you next week. up next, our power player of the week, hollywood's every girl of the '80s. ellyfish, impact life expectancy in the u.s.,
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through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. she supposedly turned down the lead roles in "ghost," and "pretty woman." but she says she's not sure and she did you want look back. >> i was sort of the every girl. i was the girl that everyone felt some sort of affinity for. i guess every boy kind of wanted to date. >> back in the '80s, she was
called the patron saint of adolescence. the star of "sixteen candles," the "breakfast club." and "pretty in pink." she made the cover of "time" magazine. >> why do you think you, molly ringwald, struck such a cord. >> i think there is something about my face that people responded to. i can make people cry. my husband says that's my super power, i make people cry. >> ringwald is now 45 and touring as a jazz singer. and it turns out the rest of her life has been just as interesting as it was years ago.
>> you were never really comfortable being just a star. >> i don't think that just being a star, just being famous, is very fulfilling. >> by the late 1980s, she was turning down pop rolls for serious movies. she said it was all about trying new things. >> i'm more interested in looking forward. if i look back, it really is the same way that people look back on their baby pictures. in addition to singing and acting, ringwald has written two books, and she is now a mother of three with a 10-year-old daughter and 4-year-old twins. she recently watched "pretty in pink" with her oldest child. >> it was the first time i had a feeling that i was seeing them like everyone else, through my
daughter's eyes. >> and? >> it was great. why didn't she become a train wreck like so many other teen stars? >> lindsey lohan was a troubled individual. i had a really great family and i feel sad for the people in the business that don't have that. >> so molly ringwald is going to keep doing it and and not looking back much. >> i'm just really looking forward to the next act. i think it will involve music, writing, directing, and acting. >> ringwald released her first album and she is donating a portion of the sales before the end of the year to a charity called l.a. kitchen. that's it for today, have a great week and we'll see you next "fox news sunday." ♪
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