tv The Ed Show MSNBC March 27, 2012 12:00am-1:00am PDT
heavy stakes, very heavy. that's "hardball," thanks for being with us. good evening americans. welcome to "the ed show" from new york. one month ago today trayvon martin was gunned down in the streets of sanford, florida. new details are emerging about the events of that night and the conservative media is smearing the reputation of a dead 17-year-old. >> even in death they are still disrespecting my son. >> the parents of trayvon martin say authorities are demonizing their son. >> they've killed my son and now they are trying to kill his reputation. >> new details have been released and george zimmerman's are spinning his racist remark. >> it's a difference between a c and a g from what i understand. goon is a term of endearment in the high schools these days.
>> we're going to florida for the latest. the right wing smear machine is attacking trayvon martin. history was made inside the supreme court today. outside, it was another political circus. >> if you really want obama care repealed, there's only one person that can make that happen. >> jonathan cone of the new republic was inside the room for today's argument. he's here with the latest. it's tebow time in new york. we'll show you what happened when tim tebow met with new york press. >> i thank my lord and savior jesus christ. that's the most important thing to me. i don't think the attention is because of my faith. thanks for watching. the effort to smear trayvon martin is in full tilt. one month after he was killed police have released part of their investigation and sources have leaked other selective information to the immediate
yea. the city of sanford, florida posted the initial reports. one officer describes the shooter george zimmerman this way. i could observe that his back appeared to be wet an was covered in grass, as if he had been lying on his back on the ground. zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. trayvon martin obviously cannot defend himself but george zimmerman can. according to the orlando newspaper authorities say trayvon martin approached zimmerman from behind as zimmerman was walking back to his suv. they exchanged words and then trayvon punched him in the nose sending him to the grountd and began beating. the miami herald raises other questions. one of the witnesses who heard the crying said she called a detective repeatedly but said he was not interested because her account differed from that of zimmerman's. trayvon's parent dispute this and believe it's all part of
character assassination of their son. >> even in death they are still disrespecting my son. >> the only comment that i have right now is that they killed my son and now they're trying to kill his reputation. >> information about trayvon's suspension from school was leaked. he was suspended because traces of marijuana was found in a book bag. the family attorney responded to that. >> whatever he was suspended for had no bearing on what happened on the night of february 26th. if he and his friends experimented with marijuana, that is still completely irrelevant to george zimmerman killing their son on the night of february 26th. once again, law enforcement is attempting to demonize and blame the victim by releasing bits and pieces of their ongoing
investigation. >> a friend of george zimmerman, joe oliver has been making the rounds. he says he wants to diffuse the situation. here is what he says about the racial slur in the 911 tape. >> to me it's a matter of interpretation of whether he's saying coon or goon. there are a lot ov parts of this country where people call themselves coon [ expletive ] i know too many people that use that term as a racial slur. as for as that other word, goon, that among mydaughter's peer s a term of endearment. >> he says he finds it unusual the police are so slow to release information. >> there's a gap there still even with all this other information about how the two met.
there's still a gap that's missing that hasn't been leased about how the gun went off. i don't understand why this information is taking so long to come out given the past practices of florida law enforcement in releasing information in a high profile case. >> today there was another rally in sanford, florida and martin's parents appeared at a city commission. people were asking why hasn't there been an arrest in this case. get your cell phones out. will george zimmerman supporters be able to paint him as a victim? text a for yes, b for no. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. i'm joined tonight by senior reporter of the huffington post. great to have you with us.
you have been with the family for most of the day. how are they responding to this leaked information which obviously is trying to pants their son as some kind of a misfit? >> the legal team prepared the family for this. they said as the case rolls along there would be a push back and some attempt to discredit their son. i spoke with tracy martin, the father, he said no matter what, they are committed to continue the fight because the whole world is watching. if they stop then everyone else will stop. they want to make sure they keep the wheels moving regardless of what opposition they are confronted with. >> what was said at that commission meeting this evening? >> speaker after speaker from congresswoman sheila jackson lee to corrinne brown to al sharpton and jesse jackson all pleaded to hold the police department responsible and accountable for any missteps and the arrest of
george zimmerman be it the state police or the federal investigators. they want an arrest and soon. >> what do you make of the timing of the release of this information via a website when there's been so much media pressure over the last few weeks? is this standard operating procedure? >> no. i don't think it is. the information should have been revealed much earlier in this whole process. the fact that they are just leasing bits and piecings of the investigation is rather suspicious in itself. we do realize that by florida statue and as well as some other states the release of ongoing investigations is prohibited and once they complete the investigation then they will be able to release the entire investigative reports. there are been some issues with the initial investigation report and how the officers responded to the scene. >> what's the number one thing
that jumps out at you as an investigator and former police chief? >> well, the first thing is they responded to the scene and the first responding officer approaches mr. zimmerman. he sees trayvon laying on the ground and he approaches mr. zimmerman and he asks him if he seen the suspect or the subject. ziying i'm the one that shot the individual. you would think that the officer would ask him why or what had occurred. nowhere in his investigation report is there any mention as to if he asked him why did you shoot him. what happened here? nothing to that effect. that's crucial evidence to any investigation. >> i want to ask you about this police report. none of it matches up, at least from what i can see, none of it matches up with any of the 911 tape. what about this piece of information where one of the witnesses who heard crying said
that she called the detective repeatedly but said he was not interested because her account differed from zimmerman. what do you make of that? >> if there's any truth to that it just reflects extremely poorly on the detective and the sanford police department. here we have a homicide investigation. i don't think you can get anymore serious of a crime than a homicide. for them to just push this back and not return calls to a witness and probably a key witness is unquestionable. that is totally incompetence in the investigation. >> what was the family's reaction to the information that was released today? >> i think the family kind of expected this to come and they were hurt. the thing that people should be focusing on is that their son was killed and unarmed. on march 8th, i speak with chief lee for about ten to 15 minutes
and there was never any mention of this information. he told he zimmerman got out and followed trayvon. this is a complete shift from what i'm hearing now. the family all along suspected that at some point some of this information would come out. >> did police chief lee ever tell you that zimmerman was handcuffed and that medics attended to him in a patrol car and he was bleeding? was there ever said to you as a reporter? >> never. not once. >> what do you make of that? that's pretty vital information, isn't it? if a guy is bleeding there's some kind of confrontation? >> that's the point i was trying to make.
if the officer approached zimmerman and he's bleeding from the back of his head and nose, a logical question is what happened here. none of that was asked. the only thing that's reported is that zimmerman is telling the emts that i was calling for help and nobody would respond. we have to remember is that zimmerman was not a suspect. the police could have questioned him at that point. you only have to invoke your constitutional right once you become a suspect. i don't understand why the police didn't question zimmerman more at the scene. he was questioned later on in the police station but you're right at the scene there. you get vital information at the initial point of the incident. >> another thing that bothered me about the police report. they knew what the slain victim was. they knew who trayvon martin was. it said how much he weighed. how tall he was. they must have had a driver's license or something. there was no follow up to find his parents anywhere. why didn't they go door to door? >> i think that's what has so many people confuse and
perplexed. why not go door to door. they also had his cell phone. why not call the last numbers he called. for days on end he was listed as a john doe. it's the mounting questions that keep plaguing the family and tonight at the city council hearing they implored the commission, what would you want done if this was your child. that's the part having spent some time with the family that bothers them most. they don't have any answers and it doesn't seem like anyone is pressuring the police department as to why they allowed george zimmerman to go home with the dna evidence on his shirt. these questions are mounting. this is really disturbing the family. >> one more thing i want to bring up with both you have. this joe oliver who seems to be going out doing the media rounds. is he credible? does he know zimmerman and what's the connection there?
>> i'll have to say like so much in george zimmerman's life there's a fog here. i have to admit, i don't know much about the connection. it doesn't surprise me that none of us know much about him because there still this wall we're trying to breakthrough. we're learning more. like so much in this case, more questions than answers. >> does this police report today cloud the picture even more or do you see anything being cleared up as a positive step towards justice? >> i think this whole investigation is cloudy right from the beginning. no matter what they put out now there's always going to have some question about the validity of it. >> is it a good old boy network at work? >> let's face it, central florida has a history of good old boys here. you would hate to see this be the case here, but it is what it is. >> thanks for your time tonight.
appreciate it so much. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen and share your thoughts on twitter. we want to know what you think. right wingers are trying their best to demonize trayvon martin. turner clayton jr. will be joining me later. he will join me to talk about it and years of right wing attacks on health care reform have finally gone to the supreme court. three days of hearing kicked off today. jonathan cone will join me. stay with us.
way to pay for his budget. it's not stopping mitt romney from endorsing it. share your thoughts on twitter. we're right back. [ female announcer ] women have made it the number one selling anti-aging cream undeniably. it creamed unbelievably a $500 cream. and now women have made regenerist microsculpting cream also unscented. women love it. in original and also fragrance-free. has a facebook page these days. but where's the relationship status? well, esurance is now in a relationship...with allstate. and it looks pretty serious. esurance. click or call. the sleep number bed. the magic of this bed is that you're sleeping on something that conforms to your individual shape. wow! that feels really good. it's hugging my body. in less than a minute i can get more support. if you change your mind once you get home you can adjust it. so whatever you feel like, the sleep number bed's
going to provide it for you. at our semi-annual sleep sale, save $400 to $700 on our most popular bed sets. sale ends march 31st. only at the sleep number store, where queen mattresses start at just $699. let's examine why we had a test on the victim rather than the one that was aggressive. let's not play this double standard of trying to demonize who is dead and sanitize who was the cause of the death. >> that was reverend al sharpton down in florida. some right wingers will do
anything to defend florida's stand your ground law. they have no problem smearing an innocent kid in the process. conservative blogger wrote that conservatives are trying to turn his dit into a racial litmus test adding his personal remarks poured gas on fierp. he had no issue fanning the flames on her right wing website by posting this picture claiming the african-american kid in the photo was trayvon martin turns out it was not. the website has since apologized but needless to say it was ruthless and reckless. i'm joined by turner clayton jr. gooded to have you with us tonight. the new developments today on the press release that is out, the report that is out by the police department shed some light on it. some seem to be using that as an
effort to defend george zimmerman. what do you make of this personal attack that's taken place in the characterization of the victim? >> well, we expected right wing to come out that way. when you look at all the evidence, you will find that actually, mr. trayvon martin was defending himself. the fact that the stand your ground statute does not apply.ck panther party? >> we don't condone the action of the black panthers. the fact that they are offering a $10,000 bounty, we don't condone that. i understand they are saying to bring him in dead or alive. that's not what we're all about. we're a nonviolent organization. we want justice to prevail in the courtroom. >> zimmerman's friends and attorneys are out there painting trayvon martin as a villain.
how sad is that? >> he is a victim wo lost his life, but they are trying to defend the perpetrator who did the killing. now, mr. zimmerman who was in pursuit of mr. martin was asked by the police dispatch, are you following this kid? he said yes, i am. we don't need you to do that. mr. zimmerman should have stopped at that point, but he didn't. by continuing on now mr. zimmerman is beginning to stalk mr. martin in this particular case. he got out of his vehicle and approached mr. martin. it was not the other way around. if you are the aggressor, then you are the one who are perpetrating the crime. that's what happened in this case. >> in the police report it says that zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head and that the officer thought he had been laying on the ground because he had grass on his back. none of the 911 audio matches up with that but we haven't heard all of the audio and the lady
who has been trying to contact detectives and they departments want to hear her side of the story. what do you make of all of this? >> well, i think that's poor invs. gags. apparently she tried to make a statement earlier that night and they only took a brief statement from her. of course, they were supposed to go back and get a more detailed statement which they refuse to do. this is not the way you conduct an investigation in a homicide. >> joe oliver appears to be going out there trying to explain what zimmerman said on tape. he said it's a difference between a c word and a g word. how does that ring to you? >> i can take mr. oliver's word with grain of salt. i don't believe anything he is saying high pressure he's there in order to try to credit mr. zimmerman and discredit mr. martin. >> in the sound bite we played
earlier in this program, mr. oliver said he knows that word is a term of endearment. goon is a term of endearment in high schools. i thought the shooter was 28 years old. how would he know what george zimmerman was saying and what it would mean? how credible is joe oliver out there drawing conclusions. it just really plays into some kind of coordinated offensive that's being put out by zimmerman's camp to discredit the victim. >> that's all it is. i think this is just a rehearsal from mr. oliver to make mr. zimmerman look good. he's also making him look bad because there's nothing that mr. oliver can say in order to try to change what was on the 911 tapes or the evidence that should have been collected by the police department that night. >> give us the mood of the
community there. a lot of intense media pressure, meetings, demonstrations, advocates speaking out. what's the mood of the community and tonight's meeting? >> well, the mood is they are very unhappy at the moment. there's a lot of unrest in the community. of course, we're trying to provide some type of way they can vent their frustration without taking it out on other folks in the community. this is our community. we have to live here. i understand that a lot of national figures will be coming in and revving the community up, but once they're gone, we have to put the flames out. yeah, the community is in an uproar at this moment. we're doing everything question to try to contain that. >> thanks for your time tonight. former florida governor jeb bush signed stand your ground law into law in 2005. now he is breaking his silence on the trayvon martin case and defending the measure. later rkt paul ryan punts houn to pay for his tax cuts for
with a lobbyist from the nra at his side. stand your ground gives florida residents the right to use deadly force and call it self-defense. the law has allowed george zimmerman to talk the streets as a free man after shooting and killing an unarmed teenager. bush says it's always good to review laws and doesn't believe zimmerman's defense will hold up. the law does not apply to this particular circumstance. stand your ground means stand your ground. it doesn't mean chase after somebody who's turned their back. joining me tonight is former florida state senator and a former federal prosecutor. good to have you back with us tonight. how do you feel about this law now that we've seen all this unfolded?
this law have any connection to the result of february 26th in your opinion? >> no matter what governor bush says, at the end of the day mr. zimmerman's defense lawyer is already seeking its refuge. the initial investigators thought it applied and there's no question that that law is going to make it more difficult to convict mr. zimmerman because it says and the jury is going to hear it in the jury instruction, it says that mr. zimmerman had no obligation to try to stay away from the situation and that he was free to use lethal force without ever having to walk away. that's going to be something that you're going to hear from his defense attorney after mr. zimmerman's gives his account or somebody does that is already happening. >> does a former governor, any governor who signs a law of this nature, have blood on his or her hands in the wake of these kinds of tragedies? i know that's an open-ended
question but the final authority in a state will be the governor to determine whether a law is put into place. what do you make of that? >> i think there's a lot of blame to go around. i understand why a lot foefk frs this terrible idea are backing off of it right now. the truth of the matter is, and i said this to you the other day, there was no one in florida who needed this law. this was one of these things they do that the nra did nationally trying to get states to pass it. there was no one in florida who claimed that they had been wrongfully charged or i quitted or convicted and needed this protection. this was done solely because the nra asked the legislature to do it and they have a lot of sway with the legislature. it will make it harder for mr. zimmerman to be charged if he is charged. >> that's powerful statement you made. it seems to me not pointing this at you, but the media, i think
has a responsibility to go to these governors and these lawmakers who follow alec and follow the national rifle association like puppets on a string and ask them why did you sign it if there's no clamoring in the public for this. we're passing laws because some industry wants it to be passed. in the meantime they are contributing to the thaugt process of someone that that a firearm in the middle of a confrontation and in this case, i think you could make the case that zimmer man thought he was doing what the law was going to allow him to do, to chase this kid down. >> this was really, listen, about 20 of us, i was in the state house at the time and 20 of us really voted against it but we said this is crazy. the fellow that was promoting the bill was the same legislature who protoed the terry schiavo and said this real devalues life.
it says lethal force is your first resort if you want it to be. it doesn't have to be your last resort. because of this outcry people are looking at it. had there not been this intention, there's no question that this case would have been long over. it would have been declined and no special prosecutors would have been appointed. everybody would have gone on their way. it's only when people look at it and stop the trains that people are trying to understand it and actually potentially revisit it. even after this episode, i'm not sure you can count on the legislature or this governor to do anything about it. >> 93 cases, 65 dead people since it went into effect in 2005. thanks for joining us.
this bill has far reaching consequences for the economic health of this country and for basic liberty in our society. >> the republican circus swarms to the supreme court as they begin the review of the health care law. jonathan cone of the new republic has the latest. martin sheen teams with democrats to fight the ryan plan. >> what is their goal? sacrifice medicare in order to give tax cuts to special interests. >> former labor secretary is here. and tebow mania officially arrives in the big apple. we'll show you what the jets quarterback had to say. >> it's not exactly the platform to get up here and share everything you believe.
it right front and center in the supreme court. today's hearing was about whether the supreme court has the authority to rule on the law before it is completely inacted. both obama administration lawyers and opposition agree. they want a ruling this year. tomorrow the real fight begins when lawyers will tackle the question of the individual mandate. i think there is an element of sadness surrounding all of these proceedings because they are taking away from the many positive components of the law which you'll never hear from the right wing. preexisting conditions. patients with pre-existing conditions will get coverage. is that a good thing? 2.5 million more young people are covered because they can stay on their parents plan. the law will close the donut hole. that is big for them. the congressional budget office
estimates the law will reduce the deficit by more than $100 billion over the next ten years. the right wing has negated all the good. rick santorum took the opportunity to do some political grand standing today holding a press conference on the steps of the supreme court. >> the reason that i talk about obama care and it's impact on the economy and fundamental freedoms and mitt romney doesn't is because he can't. he supports it. >> santorum used the hearing as a prop to try to get a few more votes. it's much more serious than that. the affordable health care act will provide coverage for 30 million more americans. rick santorum has yet to show us any plan to cover anymore americans than what are covered right now. he wants to throw everybody on the freedom market. in fact, they just never talk
about health care in the santorum camp. let's turn to jonathan cone. he's a senior editor for the author of "sick." . jonathan, in the chamber today, one of a very few allowed in there with his oral arguments. give us the sense of the intensity. >> it's very interesting. today was a warm up act. there's been a group of people saying the supreme court shouldn't rule on this case right now because of an obscure law from 1867. if there was one message that came through today is that the justices of the supreme court they get this and they are eager to rule on this. they made it clear to their questioning, they don't think that law from 1867 should stop them from issuing a ruling on this.
they want to get to the real core issue is whether the government can run a program that guarantees everybody health insurance and thing we're going to get that tomorrow. >> the bottom line in all of this is the supreme court going to turn around with the legislative branch of government has done. we have a representative government. these people were sent to washington to do something about health care. the president was elected on health care reform. that's what he wanted to do. he gets it passed. the majority rules. we move forward and now the supreme court is taking this up because there's 26 states that say they don't want to do it because probably because they don't like president obama. how intense will this get along those lines? >> i think it's important for people to realize for the supreme court to step? and overturn the law that was the subject of so much work that the congress voted for and the president signed, this would be an incredibly radical act. the supreme court just doesn't do that very often. i think that everybody understands it and tomorrow when they are debating the individual mandate, which is the core issue here, i think you'll see some very heated arguments.
you'll hear pointed questions because i think everybody understands the stakes of what we're talking about. a decision like this if they were to strike down the mandate, not only would they be overruling congress but could be redrawing the lines of what the federal government can and cant do for generations to come. >> it will also redraw the lines of what the supreme court can do. this is about the mandate that will add 30 million more people when it comes to coverage. you think those kind of things will come into play, common sense might rule with the supreme court? >> i hope so. if you strip away the legal arguments and look at what's really the question. the mandate is really the lynch pin to this whole act. we're asking whether the government can run a program that guarantees everybody can get health insurance.
you would have to think the court would be mindful of that. are they going to really take that bold step and just wipe away this whole plan? you have to wonder are they really going to take that step. >> michele bachmann was there today. did you get her reaction? he was one of 60 people that got a ticket to get in. >> i didn't see her in the chambers. i overheard a bit of rick santorum on the steps. i thought it was interesting that he talked about this as a sweeping law, one that would have an enormous impact on health care. he's right about that. we're the only country in the entire developed world that doesn't do that. we finally have created law to do that. i hope the judges, the justices of the supreme court appreciate the gravity.
>> i was reading an article in forbes, not exactly a liberal magazine saying that romney care is very popular. maybe someone should have asked rick santorum about that today. great work. thank you. tim tebow made his new york jets debut today. tiger woods is back. i mean he is back. the masters is just a couple of weeks away. stay tuned. i stepped on the machine,
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wisconsin on the eve of the primary in that state. we'll be broadcasting the show from the great dane from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. local time. then we'll be shooting our next series of lean forward promotional shots at the cooper tavern after the show. if you'd like to attend go to our facebook page and post our wall quote, i want to see big eddie live in madison. so do i. there are a limited number of seats, of coursely. we'll be giving out on a first come, first serve basis. don't forget to tweet us. we're right back. [ male announcer ] what if an entire car insurance company
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jet and went out of his way to play down any conflict between himself and starting quarterback mark sanchez. >> looking forward to my time here in new york and my time as a yet. i'm so honored and humbled to be a jet. i think the exciting thing is me and mark have a great relationship. we have had a good relationship for the last three years, i think. we've been friends, we've text back and forth. we've talked already. we're going to have a great relationship and a great working relationship. i think we'll have a lot of fun together. >> it's good everybody's going to be friends in new york. it's all about winning. tebow might look weird wearing green but tiger woods doesn't. tiger picked up his first victory in the pga tour in 30 months. he won the arnold palmer bay hill invitational. he's one win behind jack nicholas and it's also his first
win since late 2009 when revelations of his affairs sent his life into a tail spin. tiger called the win pure joy and it comes at the right time. the masters start april 5th. woods is in line to win his fifth green jacket. next, congressman paul ryan is having trouble defending his budget even in friendly territory on fox news. former labor secretary will tell us if the ryan plan is a political winner or loser, next. [ male announcer ] we asked real people if they'd help us with an experiment
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he doesn't have a plan to pay for it. he was grilled out e about how he could offset the tax cuts. he couldn't come up with an answer. >> lower the tax rates. >> broaden the base. >> here is the question cause you don't say in the budget, which ones. >> that's what the ways and means is supposed to do. there's a trillion dollars a year of these kind of loopholes that are built into the tax system. >> you going to pay the trillion a year. can you give me a number? >> i can't because those decisions haven't been made. >> are you willing to say it wouldn't be revenue neutral but distribution flally neutral which mean the wealthy won't benefit and the middle class -- >> there's no way to know the answer to that question. that this guy run a business? does he have any executive decision? has he hired or fired? has he run budget in the private sector? i'm asking the questions.
a total lack of specifics there. doesn't stop mitt romney from endorsing. even the white house has started referring to the plan as the romney-ryan budget. i'm joined by robert reich. good to have you with us tonight. does paul ryan have any clue about what he's talking about when it comes to running the numbers on the budget? >> i think he has a clue. i think he's trying to hide where all these big tax give aways to the rich are going to come from. he also says in that budget that a lot of the savings will come from medicare. he's going to cut medicare reimbursements for the elderly and take a big swipe out of what's called discretionary spending. that includes food stamps, pell grants and all things that go to lower mid class and poor families. this is reverse robin hood.
>> ryan's budget cuts spending on programs ranging from food stamps to border control. gutting all of these programs, what do you think this would do to the economy, to the base? the flow of goods and services and the transfer of the money, what do you think? >> we've seen what happens to this economy when the middle class, lower middle class doesn't have enough money to keep going. the ryan budget will make the economy much worse. it will slower economic growth. a lot of studies have shown that if we make huge tax cuts for the rich and cut all of the benefits that are going to the middle class and the poor, you're going to not only create distribution havoc in this country but take money out of the of pockets of people that do most of the spending. >> anybody that's ever been in business knows that the fastest way to effect the bottom line is to cut payroll. that's exactly what ryan is
doing with the budget. he's going right after medicare and medicaid. he's going after programs to nail right away and gives the tax breaks to the corporations and wealthiest americans. this will steroid the top line and the blue liners will be suffering again. mitt romney supports it. ryan said he would consider a v.p. run. what would a romney-ryan ticket mean for america? >> the good news is it would be very clear and made very clear exactly what they stood for. paul ryan, say what you want, he's been honest about what he wants. he's fudged a lot of the numbers but he's been very clear. this is a big, big boom to the wealthy, the average millionaire or above will get $150,000 of tax cuts per year. those tax cuts will be coming out of the hide of middle class, lower middle class and poor people. this is the blue print and now
it's mitt romney's blueprint. let us not forget he earned $21 million last year and paid taxes at a rate of 14.9%. you talk about reverse robinhood, that's where you find it. >> how could there not be a political winner for the democrats? how could you not easily make the case for the 99% with these kind of jokers coming up with plans like there. >> it will be if the democrats use it. the democrats have taken defeat out of the jaws of victory before by not focusing on what the republicans clearly want to do, what they are doing and who they are for. i think democrats ought to run with this. if if public looks at the ryan plan, if the news media convey what the ryan plan is, if romney is clear about what he wants as well, i just don't think that the average americans regardless of political persuasion will go along with it.