tv Caught on Camera MSNBC December 29, 2012 2:00pm-3:00pm PST
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>> brother, good to see you, my friend. >> happy friday. thank you for sticking around, we learned something huge today, we are going over the fiscal cliff, we are going either all the way over, or partly the way over. we are definitely going over, that whole fiscal cliff thing where congress and the white house cannot reach a deal, and they may be get us in a recession. it's going to happen. that was the whole point of president obama's press conference this afternoon. >> i still want to get this done. it's the right thing to do for our families and our businesses and the entire economy. but the hour for immediate action is here. it is now. >> allow me a quick moment, that press conference came after president obama met with john boehner and nancy pelosi and harry reed and mitch mcconnell and all the kree congressional leaders and listen to the president here.
>> the american people are watching what we do here. obviously their patience is already thin. this is deja vu all over again, america wonders why it is, in this town for some reason, you can't get stuff done in an organized timetable. why everything has to wait for the last minute. we are now at the last minute and the american people are not going to have any pabs for a political -- patience for a politically self-inflicted wound right now. i have to repeat, outside of washington, nobody understands how this is a repeat pattern over and over again. ordinary folks, they do their jobs. they meet deadlines. they sit down and discuss things and then things happen. if they have disagreements they
sort through the disagreements. the notion that the elected leadership cannot do the same thing is mind boggling to them and needs to stop. >> i just have to repeat, congress, you are terrible at your jobs. i really don't like working with you. >> we will talk about that, but as much as the public hates the congress, but you get the feeling that the congress's approval rating with the president is in the negative of 75,000%. i know that is not a real number. but he is tired of working with these people. but there's a way that republicans could be helping out the president. everyone knows two things. you are going to get more taxes in a deal after you go over it than in a deal before you over it. the taxes go up across the board, they go up by $5 trillion, so anything that you do, any reasonable deal congress
reaches, it will be a big tax cut can. but the other thing about the fiscal cliff, you do not want to be blamed for going over it. it is going to be bad for the economy, it's bad for the country. what speaker boehner has done is create a situation in which we are going to go over the fiscal cliff. but the people who want higher taxes, the democrats they will not be ready for it. it was john boehner that walked away the negotiations to try plan-b and then it was mr. boehner who failed to pass the plan. and then it was mr. boehner who said it was somebody else's problem. what he has done is a debacle for the republicans. the white house has been sitting back and letting it happen. you can call it deal and jam. >> i am optimistic that we can reach an greept that can pass both houses in time. senators reed and mcconnell are working on such an agreement as
we speak. but, if an agreement is not reached in time, between reed and mcconnell, i will urge senator reed to bring to the floor a basic package for an up or down vote, one that protects the middle class from an income tax hike and extends the vital life line of unemployment insurance for two million americans looking for a job and lays the groundwork for more cooperation on deficit reduction and economic growth. guys, i can hear you over there. i believe a proposal can pass both houses bipartisan majority. as long as they let it come to a vote. if members of the house or senate want to vote no, they can. >> i would really like to know who he is shushing there. to his main point. here is what he intends to do.
senators reed and mcconnell will try to come to a deal. but they will try to passes a bill on the two key democratic priorities and dare republicans to block it. and they will not be able to do it, at least not for long. >> if we get down to the end of the year and the only choice we have is to keep the taxes from going up on the middle class, i will support that. >> a quote was given, mr. boehner said he wanted a deal along the lines that the two men negotiated in 2011, you missed your opportunity on that. president told him. cold. but what we know right now, what we know from that, is that john boehner wishes he could go back in time, go back to 2011, and get the deal that the president
offered him then. mr. boehner wants another bite at the 2011 deal, because the president was going to stop $800 billion on taxes on the rich. in a few months the republicans will want to go back to 2012, to right now, and get the deal that the president offered them a week ago, which raise $1.2 trillion in taxes. if we get a small deal, because they come to a deal in the senate or because democrats just jam the republicans in congress. it's mostly going to be about extending the bush tax cuts for the middle class, that will net somewhere around $600 billion in new tax revenue the white house will pocket that. they got in 3 quarters of what they wanted last year. then we will go over the cliff and the pressure will quickly mount, the white house will insist that the next deal include a dollar in tax increases for every dollar in
spending cuts. in that next deal, imagine republicans want $800 billion in spending cuts. democrats will say they need that much in taxes too. because they have raised rates. they got the middle class tax cuts extended and the rich ones expired, they will be open to tax reform, that will be easier for republicans to swallow. let's say they get a one to one match, that is a $800 billion tax increase. so that democrats could end up with all of it said and done, with more revenue than president obama was asking for a week ago. and it will happen if it happens. because over and over and over and over again, john boehner and the house republicans could not take yes for an answer, so they kept delaying until they were weaker. they pushed the negotiations from 2011 when they were strong to 2012 right after the president had won re-election and now they are pushing to 2013, after the fiscal cliff hits and taxes go up and they
get blamed. it is an odd way i to negotiate. to get one republican view on what will come next. earlier this evening, i had the privilege of speaking with tom coburn of oklahoma. >> thank you for being with us tonight. >> glad to be here ezra. >> the deal is dead, we are down to a small deal, a mini deal or going over the cliff straight, what is your reaction to this? >> i'm not sure it's true. just talking to my colleagues in the senate, i think the middle ground is well known by everyone and i think you could get something that is viewed by the rating agencies and the american public as a pretty good solution. so i think it's possible, i don't know that it will happen. it's unfortunate that we are waiting until this late in the hour to try to accomplish something. >> so then, what do you see as the middle ground, i know you are a member of the gang of 8.
>> when you talk to colleagues what do they see as what can be salvaged here? >> let me answer the first part of that. none of us wanted to jeopardize what was going on. so we did not intentionally interject other than very little behind the scenes saying we needed to get something done. as far as specifics. i don't know, there's a change that you can pass in terms of revenues. there's a range in which you can meet on medicare. that i think is solvable in terms of actually creating some savings in medicare that will secure it. that won't be harmful to seniors. so, i think there's the potential for that. i think there's the potential to do -- do some changing with the sequestration in terms of how
it's done so that we do not eliminate good programs more of the cuts come from those that are not as effective or well functioning. the mood on both sides of the aisle is that they want to get something done. what that means we will have things that we do not like about it, but we will swallow it so we can do what is best for the country. >> the question is, how did we get in the position and where are the grown ups that make sure it does not happen? that is the problem, it's a failure of leadership that we are at this late date and no compromise has been brokered. >> is it fair to say that that is separate from reed and mcconnell's negotiation? >> i think they have heard well
from their caucuses and we have been talking across the aisle. i had visits with several colleagues today, we want to see something get done. and there's a range in there that everyone knows where we can go. and what i would imagine is that you will see reed and mcconnell come with something that is in that range. and the president has to say, yeah i can take this too. if we lead in the senate, we will see what the house will do with it. starting from plan b and going into the reed mcconnell deal. seems to be a vote on taxes. democrats will be able to pocket taxes, but it will be separate from spendsing cuts from the outset and then likely there will be another set of negotiations after the new year that will have spending cuts and taxes in it.
that sounds like a recipe for democrats getting more in taxes than they would have with an up front deal. are your colleagues worried about that at all or are you? >> first of all, you are enlightening me so something that i was not aware of. that was not the conversation i had with my colleagues across the aisle or with the minority leader. so, you have information that i don't have. look, we cannot solve the problem with taxes you have to do both. this country is in trouble fiscally and financially as well as ratings. if we do not do something significant, we will have a rating problem. and there will come a time that we cannot afford the interest. what is the best thing that we can do now, given the political dynamics in washington that actually makes difference in the future and when i say future i'm talking about our kids and grandkids, what can we do that will actually get us back on the path. you know, one of the things that people don't look at, they
compare our debt to gdp ratios, ezra, but when you make a equal comparison to us, to the countries of europe and around the world, we are actually at about 120% debt to gdp right now. and of course, that is internal and external, but external debt, we areover 100 now, we are in much worse shape than we recognize, i'm willing to do it incrementally, i'm willing to do it all at one time. what i want to do is solve the problem for the future of the country and if we do sdmarks the more we do of it, the more we will see economic growth start coming. i think we are prime for economic growth, but we have to solve these very real issues to be able to take advantage of the prime. >> i agree with you, i think the economy can take off if washington gets out of the way at this point. tomko burn, senator from oklahoma there's one way we can
start to fix our dysfunctional congress and guess what? they are actually thinking about doing it. that means that other congressman are thinking of how to stop them from doing it. that is next. pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. start saving at citi.com/pricerewind. ♪ doing it with a cold, just not going to happen. vicks dayquil -- powerful non-drowsy 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ no matter what city you're playing tomorrow. [ coughs ] [ male announcer ] you can't let a cold keep you up tonight.
democrat. ritter made a call people did not expect. he didn't promote a congressman or mayor. he didn't go for a politician at all, in fact. he went for michael bennet, the superintendent of the denver public school system. bennett was, as you can imagine, excited. he was now a senator, a member of the world's most exclusive club. that is a big job. it is an impressive, big job. a job that makes you think pretty highly of yourself. what bennett was not prepared for was that when he took that big, important, impressive job, everybody would all of a sudden hate him. and they would hate him because they hate congress, and he was now part of congress, this thing that they hate. in november of 2011, bennett went down to the floor of the senate with a chart that is still one of my favorite charts of all time. it was a simple chart. it just showed how popular different things were. the irs, the people who collect taxes and audit you, 40% approval rating, unpopular. richard nixon during watergate in 1984, 24% approval. also very popular. banks that had just crashed the
global financial system and were throwing tens of millions of people out of work worldwide, 23% approval, not good. paris hilton, 15% approval. the u.s. becoming a communist country, which had apparently been polled by rasmussen got 11% approval, oddly. and then there was congress. 9%. 9% approval rating. that is not good, people. that was in 2011. now, according to gallup, congress is up to 18%. that is still awful. and even the people who serve in congress don't like congress, they hate congress. they are embarrassed by it. just listen to them. >> we have lacked the courage to face up, to deal with these issues. we here in washington are going to hurt the american economy. we're going to hurt americans at every level, and to me, it's just a travesty that we've not been willing to deal with this issue. >> americans believe congress is broken. the american people know,
democrats and republicans, that this place isn't working and there need to be some changes. >> america people should not countenance this deal made in this gridlock. we're here to do our jobs in washington, and we're seeing this failure demonstrated time and again because of ideological and political and philosophical stubbornness. what about the entire country? what about the good of the country? >> and yet, any time anyone tries to change anything about congress, any time someone tries to make it a little bit better, the status quo force together and quick. right now, the filibuster was meant to be a majority rule constitution. the founders considered making it a super majority. they rejected that, big-time. in a federalist, alexander hamilton wrote that a super majority congress would serve to, "embarrass the administration, destroy the energy of government, and substitute the pleasure, caprice
or artifices of an insignificant, turbulent, or corrupt junta to the regular deliberations and decisions of a respectable majority." but in recent years, the senate has been remade into a super majority constitution. you need 60 votes to get almost anything done. between 2009 and 2010, we had more filibusters than we had in the '50s, '60s, and '70s combined. and they're not filibusters like we think of them, where the senators go to the floor and debate an issue until they keel over from exhaustion. they're just obstruction. if you watch a filibuster today, it doesn't look like anything. it's the blue screen on c-span, the one with the classical music playing over it. you don't tune in to here an intense minority demand a great debate on the issue of the day. you tune in to hear a string quartet. senator jeff merkley, a democrat from oregon is trying to change that. he's got a proposal to force talking filibusters in the senate. it wouldn't change what i think is a central part in the senate, the 60-vote super majority, but it would make the filibuster
into something that the minority had to put some effort into using. you have to want it. now, so i want to be clear on merkley's proposal. if it passed, the minority could still filibuster anything they wanted. they couldn't subject almost everything to the same 60-vote challenge we have now. all they would have to do is talk. tell the american people why. and they probably wouldn't even have to do that that much, because the majority can't just let them talk all the time, they have to let them get stuff done. but even that modest reform is too much for many senators. "the huffington post" reports that a bipartisan group of lawmakers led by herman cain and levin are proposing a counter proposal that does even less. it would eliminate some redundant opportunities to filibuster. give quicker consideration to some nominations, as long as no other senators objected. and give the minority a little bit more freedom to offer amendments. that is it. if you turned on to c-span during the filibuster, still be that blue screen with the classical music. it's filibuster form for people who don't think the filibuster is broken.
the idea that there is any one in the u.s. senate who would look around and say, you know, this is basically working out. this place is basically working the way it's supposed to be working, it is shocking. when you poll lower than richard nixon during watergate or the irs, it is time to start rethinking how you are doing things. and not just rethinking on the margin, not just in the small ways, in ways -- not just in the ways where you're throwing your critics a little bone, in big ways. in ways that show that you, a politician supposedly answerable to the people, you actually care that they hate the job you're doing. joining me now is democratic senator, jeff merkley of oregon. his filibuster reform proposal is known as the talking filibuster. senator merkley, thank you very much for being here tonight. >> ezra, good to be with you >> so, first, let me get your reaction to the counterproposal by senators mccain and levin. i'm sure you've looked at it by now. what do you think of it? >> absolutely. this proposal is all about not addressing the core problem paralyzing the senate. right now, the filibuster, as you described it, it's silent, it's secret, simply an objection
to a simple majority vote. no talking required. therefore, no visibility, no time and energy, no accountability to the american people. on bill after bill that we wanted to pass, if the filibuster had had to be done out in open, before colleagues, before the public, we would have had the momentum to be able to get that legislation passed, because we were in sync with where the country wanted to go. but the group today put forward the proposal that basically is designed to pull the rug out of this reform effort. >> the argument that folks like senator mccain make is that, yeah, this might sound good to you now, be if you are in the minority, you are going to regret touching the filibuster at all, and you'll particularly regret setting a precedent that the senate rules can be changed with a simple majority. tell me why you don't believe that that's true. tell my why you'd be willing to live with your rules? >> the senate rules have already been changed with a simple majority. it was de facto done in 2005, in just recent memory. and quite frankly, i have worked
very hard along with my colleague, tom udall of new mexico, to propose reforms that we think are healthy for dialogue and debate and that we would accept in the minority. if we want to block a simple majority vote, we should have the guts to stand up on the floor of the senate, make our case before our colleagues, and before the american people. if we don't have the courage of our convictions to do that, then we should sit down, shut up, and let a majority go ahead and make the decision. >> so i know you've been talking to many of your colleagues. you've been working on this a long time. do you think that you and senator udall have the votes? and in particular, do you think that the leadership, like senator reid, will be with you on this, as opposed to the merging coalition with mccain and levin? >> senator reid will have the votes for whatever package he puts together. certainly, i'm advocating that that include the talking filibuster. i think that if we take the momentum that's built up over the past two years and squander it in the fashion proposed by some colleagues today, we miss
an historic opportunity to kind of seize the reins of the senate and say we're going to steer the senate in a direction that makes it work better in debating bills, on deciding issues, and doing the work on the big issues face america. >> speaking of how things are working on the big issues facing america, i know you were following the events of the fiscal cliff today. are you confident that senators reid and mcconnell can come to a deal? >> no, i'm not confident at all. i know they're going to give it their best shot, and i wish god speed to them. i can tell you that on january 1st in oregon, we will have about 29 to 30,000 folks who will lose unemployment benefits, and they'll lose them right in the middle of their tiers. it isn't as if it's planned or graduated. it's sudden. it's like cutting people off at the knees. and over the coming 30 days in january, we'll lose another 10,000. and that's 40,000 families, not only are they decimated by this, but they're going to be impacted -- the communities will be impacted by the loss of spending from those families. so that's just one little piece of this.
there's so many other pieces. it's urgent that these issues be addressed. it's regretful that we're here at this last moment. >> i'm really glad you brought up unemployment benefits. we'll be talking about those a bit later in the show. senator jeff merkley of oregon, thank you so much for being with us on a friday night here. >> you're welcome. during this fiscal fight, there is one group that keeps getting kicked around. they are the group that can afford to get kicked around least. that story is coming up. ughs ] up high! up high! [ sighs ] [ chuckles ] yo, give it up, dude! up high... ok. up high... ok. high! up high!!! ok ok that's getting pretty old. don't you have any useful apps on that thing? who do you think i am, quicken loans? [ chuckles ] at quicken loans, our amazingly useful mortgage calculator app allows you to quickly calculate your mortgage payment based on today's incredibly low interest rates... right from your iphone or android smartphone. this great tool answers your home loan questions
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if you drive northwest out of columbia, south carolina, and i'm going to admit something, i actually have not done this myself, you will eventually come to a teeny tiny little town called little mountain, south carolina. there it is. you can see it on the map there. little mountain, south carolina. population, 292 people. little mountain has a single stoplight, just one. and little mountain has a current job opening, mayor. there is currently no mayor in little mountain. which is odd. the mayor manages a $95,000
budget, plus state grants for school improvements and an elder care facility. there's also the little mountain reunion, a folk festival that draws around 10,000 people, big for little mountain. and which the mayor is supposed to help organize. little mountain seems to really need a mayor. and yet, nobody ran for the office in november when the 16-year incumbent retired. and the top two write-in candidates, they both turned the job down. they don't want to be mayor. marty fricke is a maintenance supervisor and 67 of his fellow little mountainites wrote him. in but he used to serve on the town council and his wife is having some health issues, and after considerable and solemn consideration, he declined. the retiring mayor, buddy johnson, he was second in the voting, he got 20. but he's retiring. he doesn't want to do it. mickey mouse and snoop dogg also got votes, but one is a cartoon character and the other is snoop dogg. although i would like to meet the little mountain resident lo say big fan of west coast gangster rap. all this would seem to point to melvin bowers, the ranking
member of the town council, but his wife is also having health issues and he declined the gig. the town plans now to hold a special election in march in hopes that someone, anyone, is going to be willing to be mayor. this right here, it's a story of some government and politics and small town life. mr. fricke, the leading write-in vote getter told "the new york times" that politics has lost its luster, even in small towns. oh, gee, i wonder why. thank you, washington. but it's also a story, an interesting story about unemployment. you have a job available, one that only pays a hundred bucks a month, and nobody wants it. and that in this economy is very, very rare. a job nobody will take. for most available jobs, there are lines out the door of qualified applicants. and that is the most important fact about not just the economy, but about what is happening in washington right now, as we speak. the biggest deal, the biggest problem with a deal that has not
been struck in congress is coming up next. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. start saving at citi.com/pricerewind.
headline today over the "tennessean" newspaper, the big newspaper in nashville, tennessee. 30,000 tennesseans will lose unemployment benefits with that fiscal cliff deal. 30,000. here is a headline at ktvn in nevada. unemployment insurance recipients notified benefits may end. nearly 25,000 nevadans were notified this week that their unemployment benefits will end after this week if congress does not vote by tuesday. to continue, though. here's the headline out of michigan. 85,000. 85,000 michiganders losing unemployment benefits. here's the palm beach post, 115,000 floridians being cut at the end of the year. 43,000 in connecticut could lose unemployment benefits. a few minutes ago, you heard jeff merkley of oregon mention, i believe, the 30,000 in oregon. one of the things that has been lost in all the fiscal cliff wrangling over the last couple of months is something really
dramatic will happen really soon that will affect a ton of people who cannot, cannot afford it. four days from now, if washington cannot find a way to get its act together, 2 million people will lose their unemployment benefits. all at once. they will go all go away. unemployment insurance is different from the other parts of the fiscal cliff in that way. there are tricks we can play on, say, the pack side. we can change withholdings so you don't notice it. and on the spending side, instead of laying off people, we can furlough them. there are things we can do in a lot of parts of the fiscal cliff, if we do over for a week, two weeks, maybe even a month, we can prevent the big pain from taking effect until congress reaches a deal. there are ways to make the cliff a slope, a plain, or a rolling hill, at least for a little while. unemployment insurance is not like that. if no deal is reached by tuesday it, ends. it ends for 30,000 people in tennessee, for 85,000 in michigan. for 119,000 people in florida.
these are the people who have been hit hardest by the great recession, who are the worst off right now. 2 million of them across the country. now, there are a lot of dumb things about this fiscal cliff time bomb that washington is about to set off, but this one right here, this may take the cake as the single stupidest thing we could possibly do in this economy. providing unemployment insurance to people without jobs in addition to being the right thing to do, it is crazy stimulative. it is stimulus on steroids. when you give people money to spend and they don't have a job, when they done have any other money coming in. you know what they do with that money? they spend it. they spend pretty much all of it. they spend it on gas, on groceries, on bills, on rent, on clothing for their children. that is real money, and it goes right back into the real economy, to be spend again. it is not like tax cuts, where a big chunk gets saved. this money gets spent and spent quick. it helps the economy. cutting that off, all at once, means you take that money out of an economy, just beginning to get back on its feet.
earlier this year, the congressional budget office looked at the economic impact of unemployment insurance. they found extending unemployment benefits would increase economic growth by as much as half a percentage points. that's big in a year when 3 or 3.5 would be a good number. so, a, it is great for the economy, unemployment benefits. it is the stimulative thing built into the system. and b, well, b is the part that is even a little harder to stomach. in the great history of this country, we have never before discontinued federal unemployment benefits when the unemployment rate was above 7.3%. right now that rate is 7.7%. this would kind of be a grand experiment we are trying on the unemployed. let's just kick them off unemployment insurance in an economic environment where we've historically never done that before. then let's see what happens. but, you know, what, it's actually even worse than that. what makes this a real punch to the gut is that what washington is now threatening to do, what they are just four days away from actually doing is taking
away the extended unemployment insurance from those who have been unemployed the longest, and at the same time, by going over the fiscal cliff, bringing the recovery to a screeching halt, people argue over how bad it would be to go over the cliff, but everyone agrees, it would be bad. and if we go over for long enough, it will create a new recession. so now you don't have a job and you don't have unemployment insurance. you've been looking for a long time. and good luck finding a new job, because we just crashed the economy. >> the american people are watching what we do here. obviously, their patience is already thin. this is deja vu all over again. we're now at the last minute. and the american people are not going to have any patience for a politically self-inflicted wound to our economy. not right now. >> this would be a wound to the very weakest in the economy. so what is it going to be here, congress? how badly do you want to hurt the people who have been hurt worst by the recession? gives you 1% cash back on all purchases,
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senator ted kennedy and the idea was to provide some overnight over the government's spying activities when it was americans who were getting spied on. the act was known as fisa. it forced the government to get permission from a special fisa court if, for example, they were tapping the phone of foreign agent and that guy happened to call an american. in the u.s., you need a warrant for that. president carter signed the bill into law in 1978. it was the law of the land for more than 20 years, until it got amended under president george w. bush. you might remember this. a patriot act and a number of other congressional acts vastly diminished fisa's privacy protections and expanded the goth's ability to spy on you and on me and all americans to tap our phones and read our e-mails. and in the end, you would probably never even know they were doing it. and we as a country, at that time, we had a huge fight about it. it was a major issue in the 2004 presidential campaign when president bush and john kerry. in the 2008 democratic primary, then senators clinton and obama, they fought about it. they even ended up voting on opposite sides of the issue when
it came up for a vote that summer. fisa, and whether or not we already have a government with too much power to spy on us, whether or not there should be more congressional and judicial oversight of that power, whether or not more should be done to protect people's privacy, our country's been having been fights over that tough for years now. but you know what happened today in congress? congress, despite being stalled on pretty much everything, today congress extended fisa, extended the federal government spying powers and did it quickly, like that. the republican-led house passed a bill in the fall with a little help from democrats and the senate passed it today in an overwhelming vote of 73 yeas to 23 nays. president obama is expected to sign it. if you are a civil liberties guy, there was good news and bad news in this debate. the good news is that there were a bunch of privacy amendments, including one from democratic senator ron wyden of oregon. his amendment would have required the head of the country's spy agencies to tell congress when americans accidentally got spied on. right now, we have no way of
knowing how often that happens. also, republican senator rand paul of kentucky, he wanted to force the government to get a warrant to read our e-mails and other electronic communications. for privacy advocates, these amends were the good news. the bad news, the democratic-controlled senate killed every single one of those amendments. killed them dead. they voted them all down. and today the once-controversial warrantless wiretapping bill was extended for another five years, and amazingly, almost nobody seems to have noticed. we used to fight about this tough. the whole reason fisa needs congressional reauthorization every few years is that we are supposed to reassess it, debate it, have a big conversation about it. but we were quiet this time. so let's have one here. joining us now, not to be quiet about it, is my friend julian sanchez, a research fellow at the kato institution. julian, good to see you here. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me on, ezra. >> this was an extension of the fisa bill that already exists,
but what could have changed? was it a missed opportunity here? >> and the sort of political maneuvering that was used to kill these very common sense, sort of mild amendments was really a kind of shockingly anti-democratic move. these are amendments that were proposed, you know, months ago. and yet, the debate here happened four days before the law was slated to expire, and because it was basically impossible to make a serious case against these amendments, the argument basically came down to, look, there just isn't time to get a modified bill to the house, so we have no choice but to give you your day of symbolic token debate, but we can't really, you know, seriously countenance any changes to this bill, because scary terrorists will get us if, you know, for even a day, they're forced to rely on the orders that already exist and are in effect for a year from when they're issued. it wouldn't really have changed very much, if it had lapsed for a week, but no one wants to, you
know, be seen to let the intelligence agencies somehow lose some of their power, for even an instant. the amendments were, again, very basic. ron wyden wanted to make the nsa or at least encourage the nsa to develop -- >> the national security agency. >> yeah, the national security agency was conducting these blanket surveillance. instead of traditional individualized fisa act, it creates individual warrants. a kind of blank check where the judges sign a very broad authorization and the agents have discretion about who gets wiretapped, as long as it's an international communications or surveillance with a foreign target, which includes a foreign group. so might be a google g-mail account. as long as their purpose is to get information about al qaeda, they can do that, and if it turns out after the fact, that was an american's account, as as long as their purpose is to get information about al qaeda, they can do that, and if it
turns out after the fact, that was an american's account, as lock as they din know at the time they were getting domestic communications, which, of course, you wouldn't, it's all legal and they can keep that in an enormous database indefinitely. and widen said, look, you are claiming we are not at risk. the civil liberties aren't at risk, then we shouldn't at bear minimum have some rough estimate of how many americans' communications are getting swept up in this database? and the nsa has repeatedly said we can't do that, and the reason why is secret. so go to a secret room and read the reason why we can't do this. the public isn't allowed to know. he also wanted to bar back door searches. the idea, again, because the authority is so broad, they can essentially say we will intercept all communications between the u.s. and yemen or pakistan and sift through them later to see what satisfies the criteria for being relevant to a terror investigation. so widen's idea here, look if this is really supposed to be
about spying on foreigners and not on americans, once you collected very broadly the huge reams of communications, you shouldn't be able to go to the database and google for ezra cline. that would then be clearly using information to go after an america american. >> let me ask you something about the white house on this. i think it's important. my understanding of obama's movement on civil liberties, he was much more aggressive we needed more fisa oversight, as a senator than as a president. where was the white house in this debate? >> they have essentially steadfastly fought any modifications. it's a total 180. barack obama initially pledged to filibuster the fisa amendments act and then ultimately, reluctantly he said, decided to break another senator's filibuster, but said because his own supporters were upset about this, a group called
get fisa right became the largest supporter group on mybarackobama.com, forced to release a video, and say i recognize it's a small bill, instead of not letting them have a tool they need, i will support this, it's flawed, and i'll do a review later and see what kind of additional civil liberty protections might be needed. but yet his administration has fought every possible proposal, often in incoherent terms. that would -- for example, senator merkley wanted to require the fisa court -- or at least the justice department to release redacted opinions of important interpretations so we don't have secret law. americans would know what the surveillance law means. they said, no, no, no. we don't need this, we already
promise dodd th promised to do this but then on the other hand, we can't do this. it would be dangerous to national security. >> this is often the way the white house is. when they get in power, suddenly executive power looks a lot better to them. >> no one wants to throw it away. >> thank you very for joining us. good to see, my friend. >> good to see you. for those of you who are frustrated because this show does not do stories about incredible norwegian kickers, relax. we got your back on this one. best new thing is straight ahead. copd makes it hard to breathe,
but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can be in the scene. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day.
advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair. if you're still having difficulty breathing, ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. get your first full prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. the best new thing in the world today is a video made with a guy with a very special talent. a guy who videotaped himself and then uploaded himself using his talent to youtube.
now he may be using that talent to make a living. it's the kind of story you heard a million times. but the way a story like this one becomes popular is when the thing the guy films himself doing is awesome. case in point. ♪ that is a few named hobart rugeled. he is a 28-year-old man born and raised in a small little village in norway, a country where they don't have football -- i'm sorry, where they don't have american football. because obviously in norway, like in the world, they have football as in soccer. and because this guy is amazing at kicking a ball, in this four-minute video, he shows off a whole bunch of skills, most of them the kind that a kicker in american football does not need in the course of a game. but he also shows off a bunch of skills that actually would come in very handy on a gridiron.
and he reportedly made this video because after years of playing am sure soccer in norway, he figured he could give place kicking an american football a try, to see what he could do. rugeland practiced more than a year, made this video with some friends, uploaded it back in september. now comes the part in any story of a video, where you ask is this real? it's hard to answer with certainty. we're not in norway, but maybe what happened next will be enough of an answer. the video got him an invitation to come to the u.s. and work with an nfl kicking coach and to try out for the new york jets, which reportedly happened last week. and rugeland has been invited to come back for a second jets tryout in a few months. and he now has a sports agent. so, kids, there is a moral to the story. and that is if there's something you can do, and if you have access to a camera, you might want to practice until you get really good at it, then you can put it up on youtube and let the world know