tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC March 15, 2013 1:00am-2:00am PDT
show is moving to weekends saturday and sunday from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. and i understand that politico wrote something about the fact that i'm going to a relative no-man's land for cable news programming. really? well, i guess i wouldn't want it any other way because we're going to build those hours to the best hours in cable. this is what "the ed show" has always been about. what "the ed show" is always going to be about. the people on the road, the stories, the butcher, the baker, the candle stick maker, the middle class americans who are fighting for a fair share. and their dream, their piece of the pie of this great country. that's what i want to do, that's what i'm going to do, and i'm looking forward to it. now, just as a warning, if you happen to see this video, it's not fake. it's the real deal. there's going to be some fishing involved in this, phil, you have to understand that, now. that's a dandy. that is a wall eye, it's a 10-pounder, i love to do that. so when i have a few days off during the week, you know, this is what you might see on the
weekend. there is one person i must thank. and that is the lady i met 16 years ago in my life wendy schultz. she is a great wife, a great mother, great grandmother and i'm a granddad, holy smokes we've got nine grandkids and two more on the way. i've got to get a third job because when they come to the lake, they eat everything, if you know what i mean. wendy is fantastic, when i met her 16 years ago, she was the director of the fargo homeless clinic, she gave up her career to help me on a talk show that everybody said wasn't going to make it. so we start on another journey that we both want and we are going to build these weekend hours. and just remember one thing, liberals, 5:00 on sunday afternoon, the biggest brand in liberal talk gets the first whack at the sunday shows on what is happening in america and you're going to tune in and i'm looking forward to it. and i also want all of you folks
loyal to this program and my brand to stay right here, don't go anywhere. stay here at 8:00 monday through friday because chris hayes is going to do a fantastic job. he's a great, brilliant young talent who will have a lot of years at 8:00. thank you so much for watching. the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening my friend, ed. i am going to miss this moment with you every night at 9:00 p.m., but i am so looking forward to watching you become the weekend anchor and just taking over that part of the media. and i look forward to being your teammate and your co-conspirator for as long as you'll have me. >> i appreciate your support, rachel. you're a great friend. i want to know if i can fly ed force one to no man's land. i've got to call politico and see if we can get that deal done. and you have to admit, that fish was a dandy, wasn't it? >> i don't totally believe the fish, but on this day, i'll give it to you. rachel, we'll see you, thanks so
much. >> absolutely. thank you. >> you bet. >> thanks to you at home, as well. for staying with us this hour. we've got a big show for you today. we've got sister simone kimball here who i'm really, really looking forward to talking to. we have as our guest also this hour, the man who you would most like to ask about this footage you see on your screen right now. it's a political traffic jam. a traffic jam on purpose and for a very specific reason. and the man who can explain it is here tonight in just a few minutes. but we are starting tonight in connecticut. and i almost never have to do something like this at the start of a story, but i feel i need to in this case. so in all seriousness, we on this show have been in touch with a bunch of families, a bunch of people who were directly affected by the killings at sandy hook elementary school in newtown, connecticut. people who had family members killed or friends killed there. and if you are one of those folks, you might not want to watch this story. at the top of the show. i'm sorry to have to say it but
i feel it's the only responsible thing to do. now you know. today the "hartford current" newspaper published new details that happened at sandy hook elementary. today marks three months since the massacre of first graders and school staff at that school. the headline in the current today focuses on reports from sources close to the investigation who say that the killer from sandy hook researched other mass murders, including the right wing nationalist attack in norway a couple of years ago. that attack saw eight people killed by explosives and 69 people shot to death, most of them teenagers. but we also now have the most specific information we have ever had about how the sandy hook elementary school massacre happened. the way he got into the school, which was locked, for example, was bullets. there were glass windows at the front entrance of the school and the killer shot through the glass window, shot the windows
multiple times, thus making a hole in the glass big enough for him to get through. the school principal, and the school psychologist ran into the front hallway of the school when they heard that noise from the gunfire and the breaking glass, the gunman then shot both of them dead immediately. there were only two people who were shot that day in that school who were not killed. only two people injured and not killed. both of them were hit at that point in the attack. that initial point. one teacher who was in a meeting room with the principal and the psychologist was hit by a ricochet bullet from that initial onslaught of gunfire. she was wounded in the leg, but she crawled back into the meeting room and she called 911. further down that same front hallway, another teacher heard the noise and came out into the hallway to close her classroom door. she too at that time was hit by either a ricochet or an errant bullet from the initial blast of gunfire. she was shot in the foot and she survived.
now, all of the shootings so far in the incident was done with the same gun, with the bush master ar-15 assault rifle. 30-round magazines. after shooting his way in and killing the principal and the school psychologist after wounding the two teachers, he then went to the classrooms. the first classroom he came to was katelyn's classroom. the door to that classroom was closed when he got to it apparently because she'd heard the noise and closed her door. "the current" reports her classroom window was also covered up so the gunman could not see in. quoting from "the current," sources say that sandy hook elementary had only weeks earlier had a lock down drill and that she had not taken down the piece of black construction paper that teachers are instructed to place over the small window in the classroom doors so that no one can look in. and so the gunman went past that classroom. kept going, into the classroom where lauren russo was the teacher.
in that classroom, he killed the teacher and all but one of the students. the students, the first graders were all found together in the same corner of the room apparently trying to get into the confined space of the bathroom in the back of the room like they'd been trained. the one student who survived in that classroom survived apparently by playing dead. she played dead and then once the gunman had left and moved on, she ran from the room. when the gunman moved on where he moved on to was the classroom where vikki soto was the teacher. quote, authorities believe the gunman started walking toward the back of her classroom where the bathroom was. when he noticed some of the children hiding under the desks. the gunman then shot those students. the current says at some point he stopped shooting either because the assault rifle jammed or he made an error in reloading it. and that gave six children the opportunity to escape. teacher vicky soto placed another group of five children in a closet where they too were
found alive by authorities. police had previously thought that some bullet holes that were in three cars in the parking lot outside the school showed that the gunman had been shooting at police as they were responding to the scene. we learned today that authorities now think those bullets were the gunman shooting not at police as they were arriving but at another teacher who was standing near a window. so apparently he missed the teacher, the bullets went through the window and went on to hit the cars in the parking lot. we also learned one absolutely stunning detail today that we did not know before today. and it's this. overall, this entire incident from the first shots fired to break that glass so he could get inside, from the first shots fired to the last shot fired -- so the first shot fired with that assault rifle to the window to all the subsequent shots with the assault rifle to the end, to the time when he finally stopped shooting with the assault rifle for whatever reason and he switched to the pistol with which he killed only himself,
overall the entire incident took less than five minutes. and in less than five minutes he fired 152 bullets. he's said to have used 30-round magazines, which means he may have had to reload four times to shoot those 152 bullets in less than five minutes. i mean, if you think about it, it's one bullet in the chamber of the rifle, 30 bullets in the first magazine, that's 31, then you load 30 more, 61, then you load 30 more, 91, 30 more that's 121, and then you load 30 more, 151 bullets and then he is done with the rifle and then it is just one more bullet from the pistol, which he fires into himself and then it is done. 152 bullets. four magazine changes. had he only had access to ten-round magazines instead of 30-round magazines he would've had to reload 14 times. he would've needed 14 spare
magazines beyond the one in the gun with the extra round in the chamber. reloading 14 times. you think he would've still pulled off the whole thing in less than five minutes? before anybody had time to think before anybody had time to react, before the cops got there, do you think there's any chance he might have had a jam or might have screwed something up in the reloading or might have dropped something or screwed it up a little bit earlier before bullet 151 left the gun with not even five minutes elapsed? today in the senate, the judiciary committee passed on a party line vote, a new federal restriction on the sale of assault weapons. it's been proposed by california senator dianne feinstein, no republicans voted for it. the bill includes a return to what used to be the law until 2004. the restriction on the sale of magazines that hold more than ten bullets at a time. that bill will now go to the full senate. and so far, no republicans have said they will support it. in debating it today, though, something kind of amazing happened in the senate and we
have the tape of it. i want to show you the tape and what's going to happen here at the beginning is that you will see the republican senator from texas ted cruz, freshman senator giving a little lecture about what he thinks is important in this discussion. this lecture specifically to senator dianne feinstein, but bear with me. sit through the lecture for a second because what you're watching for here, what you want to see is the reaction to the lecture. watch. >> if i might pose a question to the senior senator from california. it seems to me that all of us should begin as our foundational document with the constitution. and the second amendment in the bill of rights provides that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. the term the right of the people when the framers included it in the bill of rights they used it as a term of art. that same phrase of the right of the people is found in the first amendment, the right of people to peaceably assemble and petition the government also found in the fourth amendment, the right of the people to be free from unreasonable searches
and seizures. and the question that i would pose to the senior senator from california is would she deem it consistent with the bill of rights for congress to engage in the same endeavor that we are contemplaing doing with the second amendment in the context of the first or fourth amendment. namely, would she consider it constitutional for congress to specify that the first amendment shall apply only to the following books and shall not apply to the books that congress has deemed outside the protection of the bill of rights like wise would she think that the fourth amendment's protection against searches and seizures could properly apply only to the following specified individuals and not to the individuals that congress has deemed outside the protection of the bill of rights. >> senator -- >> let me just make a couple of points in response. one, i'm not a sixth grader. senator, i've been on this committee for 20 years.
i was a mayor for nine years, i walked in, i saw people shot. i've looked at bodies that have been shot with these weapons. i've seen the bullets that implode. and in sandy hook, youngsters were dismembered. look, there are other weapons. i've been up -- i'm not a lawyer. but after 20 years, i've been up close and personal to the constitution. i have great respect for it. and so i -- you know, it's fine you want to lecture me on the constitution. i appreciate it. just know i've been here for a long time, i've passed on a number of bills, i've studied the constitution myself, i am reasonably well educated, and i thank you for the lecture. incidentally, this does not prohibit -- you use the word prohibit. it exempts 2,271 weapons. isn't that enough for the people in the united states? do you need a bazooka?
do they need other high-powered weapons that military people use to kill in close combat? i don't think so. so i come from a different place than you do. i respect your views. i ask you to respect my views. >> mr. -- >> senator -- >> mr. chairman, i can't add anything to that. >> senator cruz. >> mr. chairman, i -- would ask another question of the senior senator of california. i think nobody doubts her sincerity or her passion. and yet at the same time i would note that she chose not to answer the question that i asked. which is in her judgment would it be consistent with the constitution for congress to specify which books are permitted and which books are not. and to use the specific -- >> the answer is obvious, no. >> let the record show that you can be a united states senator for 21 years, you can be 79
years old, you can be the chair of the senate select committee on intelligence and one of the most recognizable and widely respected veteran public servants in your nation. but if you are female while all of other those things, men who you defeat in arguments will still respond to you by calling you hysterical and telling you to calm down. they'll patronize you and say they admire your passion, sweetie, but they deal in facts not your silly girly feelings. it's inescapable, you can set your watch by it. senator feinstein to her credit went on to explain with facts and everything. that the first amendment does not stop us from regulating some forms of speech. like, for example, child pornography. it is hard to imagine that it would be a violation of the first amendment for somebody to yell fire in the crowded theater but not a violation of the second amendment for someone to bring 100-round magazine into a crowded theater in, say, aurora, colorado.
but the message, the political message here is nevertheless clear. dianne feinstein was the president of the board of supervisors in 1978. when she was suddenly through an act of violence forced to take over as that city's mayor. >> this is the body of supervisor harvey milk as it was taken from city hall. witnesses say after killing the mayor, he ran down the hall firing three shots at milk killing him. in the total confusion after the shooting, dianne feinstein spoke. >> both mayor masconi and supervisor harvey milk have been shot and killed. >> jesus christ! >> the -- >> quiet! >> the suspect --
>> a few moments later, dan white surrendered to the police. this is a stunned city. >> it was a stunned city. after the san francisco mayor and supervisor harvey milk were shot dead in 1978. that is how dianne feinstein became mayor of san francisco in 1978. and that's what she was talking about today. to ted cruz when she talked about seeing the bodies. an incident in which she had to put her fingers into the bullet holes to try to find a pulse that she did not find. san francisco was a stunned city again in 1993 when a gunman walked into an office at 101 california street holding a pair of semiautomatic weapons. he had modified them so they could fire even faster your typical semiautomatic weapon. with those weapons he killed eight people and wounded six others before he killed himself. it was in reaction to that massacre at 101 california that then senator dianne feinstein
led the national fight for an assault weapons ban. in 1994, and at the time, nobody said it would pass. but it did pass and it was in effect for ten years. while the constitution survived and everything. president george w. bush and the republican controlled congress let that law expire ten years later in 2004. and because they let it expire, that is why the mother of the sandy hook elementary school shooter was able to buy legally and easily the bush master ar-15 assault rifle that the sandy hook gunman used to fire all but one of 152 bullets that he fired in the space of less than five minutes. that morning three months ago today in connecticut. the gun that he used that day would've been illegal for his mother to buy. had the republican-controlled congress and president george w. bush not let dianne feinstein's law expire in 2004, the mother of the young man who killed those 20 first grade kids, his mother from whom he took all his weapons would not have been able
to legally and easily by those big 30-round extended magazines that we are told he used that day. not the gun, nor the extended magazines. she would've only been able to legally and easily buy ten-round magazines, not 30-round magazines. so when he took those weapons from her that morning, he would've needed 15 separate 10-round magazines in order to reload 14 different times to try to do what he actually did so easily and so quickly thanks to the expiration of dianne feinstein's law in 2004. it is three months after sandy hook as of today. the bill to reinstate what used to be law which we now know might have made a large difference at sandy hook, that bill to reinstate what used to be law heads to the full senate now. everybody says the politics of this are impossible. why should they be?
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other than bill and hillary clinton, this might be the most successful and politically ambitious husband and wife team in western politics in the 21st century. this is the late nester kirchner. he passed away a couple of years ago, but between 2003 and 2007, he was the democratically elected president of argentina. his wife, christina, was his democratically elected successor. she was elected in 2007. while she was president, before he died, he went and served as a member of congress in his country. then in 2007, the year before she was up for reelection as president christina fernandez de kirchner picked a fight. her government sponsored a bill that gave gay people in argentina an equal right with
straight people to marry, adopt children, inherit money just like first class citizenship. it was a proposed expansion of human rights in a country that a generation prior had famously, famously violated human rights on a grand scale. under a military dictatorship, an estimated 30,000 people were killed or sometimes just disappeared. there are still people in argentina who do not know what happened to friends and family in the 1970s. there are still people who are technically considered missing. and against the backdrop of that relatively recent massive human rights violation history, the very first woman to be re-elected president of argentina, she staked her personal reputation and her professional future on human rights issue. specifically on legalizing gay marriage in latin america in a very heavily catholic country. one of the major influential powerful institutions in argentina is therefore the
catholic church. and in response to this move of the government, church leaders organized big anti-gay marriage protests around the country in the months and weeks and days before the country's senate was due to vote on the bill. they spoke out forcefully against gay rights, against gay marriage and against christina kirchner in particular. but far and away the most outfront vocal opponent of gay marriage within the church's effort on this issue, the one who took on as his cause celeb, the most gusto to keep gay people from getting married in argentina was the archbishop jorge bergoglio. we all know him now as pope francis. at the time of this political fight, he said of the gay marriage bill in his country, quote, let us not be naive, we are not talking about a simple political battle, it is a destructive pretension against the plan of god. we are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination
of the father of lies that seeks to confuse and deceive. cardinal bergoglio called on god to get argentina's senators to vote against gay marriage. her response was rather furious. she said his argument and the argument of other church leaders was like something from, quote, the times of the crusades. she said they are portraying this as a religious moral issue and as a threat to the natural order. when what we are really doing is looking at a reality that is already there. it would be a terrible distortion of democracy if they denied minorities their rights. and the cardinal ended up losing that fight. she won that fight. and argentinians got same-sex marriage rights. and the following year, president christina fernandez dekirchner got reelected. since that fight over gay marriage, the relationship between the president of argentina and the cardinal have been described not just as a bad relationship but an awful
relationship and you can see why. and now he's pope. when an opportunity for a political fight on this issue presented itself, cardinal bergoglio inserted himself into that fight trying to make the biggest impact possible. he got brushed back by the president who both won the fight and won it so decisively that it led to criticism in his country of the church being both divisively political and influencing public policy. worst of all worlds. the cardinal stuck his neck out on this one. gave quotes to the press, in his condemnation of gay people and ended up losing. and now he's the pope. do we know what that means for how he and the billions strong church he leads will be involved in social issues and political fights going forward? joining us now is sister simone campbell, the executive director of the national catholic social justice lobby called network. if she seems familiar, you may
remember her from the nuns on the bus tour last year. sister simone, it's really nice to have you here tonight. thank you so much for being here. >> it's an honor to be with you. >> thank you. >> as somebody who has been an activist on behalf of the church's teachings, what do you foresee from the church and its political involvement and its leadership on these kinds of issues with this new pope? >> well, i think he's been very strong in a very positive way about economic justice, about caring for those in the margins of society about engaging economic justice issues, the disproportionate wealth in rich countries and by the wealthy and the abandonment of people at the margins. i think he would speak out against paul ryan's new budget. i think on the issues more
sexually oriented that he probably won't change the church's traditional teaching on this. but what i do have some hope for is that he appears to get touched by experiences of real people with real needs and real issues. so i'm hoping as he becomes pope for the global church that he will be touched by other people and see their struggles, see their efforts. and let his heart be broken by that. >> as somebody who has been so involved in this personally as you are means of serving your church and your way of expressing your faith, do you feel like you have learned that there are better ways and worse ways for the church to be involved as a political actor? to be part of policy conversations and political debates? >> oh, absolutely. i think when we get too identified with an ideal that is politically held that we can hold on to the ideal with losing sight of the gospel. but when you have to stay rooted
in the gospel and jesus is called to welcome in everyone, welcome in those at the margins, even when it doesn't fit my own political story. and that's the challenge. we have to break out of our rigid political loyalty to be able to be loyal to the gospel. it's very hard. it's challenging. >> and the hierarchy nature of the church lends itself to political analysis like other hierarcal institutions. also the spiritual hierarchy. and in that context, you and so many other women of the church who have spoken out on issues, and that's been the organizing principle about your work about the ryan budget and everything. you've ended up having quite a bit of conflict with the male church hierarchy over some of your stands in the way you have articulated them. do you now foresee that getting better?
could it get worse? >> i guess it could get worse. but the thing that i've seen, rachel, is that the fact that we got criticized by the vatican, gave us the notoriety that gave birth to nones on the bus. so i say that the holy spirit from my perspective, the holy spirit is alive and well and making mischief. so even though painful things happen to us when the criticism from the vatican, the spirit took it and generated a hope and an engagement for people. so that yesterday i was in richmond and some of the people in the crowd pointed out, we were talking about women's leadership in the church. and one of the members of the group said, oh, but you -- but you, sister simone, have become a leader in the church and i was really surprised. i mean, i think of myself as engaged in politics. but there is a way in which this movement has generated a -- i don't know -- a really electricity about hope and about another way forward.
the spirit's alive and well while it could be painful in the criticism, other things are happening because of it. >> sister simone campbell, i have such respect for the way that you conduct yourself in these very heated political fights that you've been involved in sort of taking criticism on all sides. the way that you have always responded with such dignity and eloquence is a real inspiration. even people disagree with you on these issues. thank you for being such a model in that. >> thank you for this opportunity. >> thanks. the holy spirit is alive and well and making mischief and that's my kind of holy spirit. among other things, today saw the most politically significant traffic jam we have had in this country in a long time. that's coming up.
today's march 14th, happy pi day. the day we celebrate the number 3.14 and so on and so forth. you know, forever. but today's not just a big day for math nerds, it's also a big day for conservative politics nerds. because today is cpac day, it's the start of the conservative political action conference. it's like the conservative comic-con, three days long. the news from cpac today ended up not being what i thought it was going to be in a way that does not bode particularly well
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when there is a problem in public life. when there's a problem in governance, people with political power have choices. they can ignore the problem, which usually means it gets worse, they can try to fix the problem or they can use the problem. they can see the problem as an opportunity, something to exploit to accomplish some other thing. one way you can tell if politicians are choosing the third option. they're not ignoring it, not fixing it, using the problem for some other purpose. one way to tell when politicians are doing that is when the thing they propose to do in response to the problem isn't going to fix the problem. in 2010, republicans did not just win the house and they didn't just win a bunch of state legislatures, they won a bunch of governorships too. they elected rick snyder and within ten weeks of him being sworn in, rick snyder of michigan and the newly unilaterally republican michigan legislature passed a bill to give the state sweeping new powers that no one else has anywhere else in the country. they revamped an existing law to
give the governor the power to overrule who you vote for. they took for themselves the power to declare a town or school board to be dysfunctional. and if they decided you were dysfunctional then the governor could decide to take you over, you don't get a vote, they decide without you. and no matter who you and your town voted for to be your local elected officials, that is overruled. the governor appoints an emergency manager to run your town instead with the power to overrule your vote. they can strip elected officials of their power and take over themselves. they can even abolish the town, sell off its assets, you get no say. the governor used the new power to strip all the elected officials in benton harbor of their powers, the town council kept trying to meet, tried to pass a resolution honoring the constitution, for example, to try to make the rather obvious points. but they were not allowed to do that. they've been stripped of their powers. so benton harbor went -- a
detroit suburb called allen park went, highland park went, as well. michigan is a majority white state, but altogether, the populations have been their right to elect their own local officials taken away from them in these places were mostly black. michiganders fought back against it. we covered how michigan fought back at the state level too. gathering signatures and putting this radical new law on the ballot for repeal. the republicans fought against that by saying the font on the petitions was too small. and the petition shouldn't be accepted. remember that? but the signatures were accepted and it went on the ballot to get repealed and it got repealed in november. the republicans' radical abolish your local voting rights and let us take over law got repealed by the people of michigan in november. in that same election, republicans also saw their majorities in the legislature shrink. they didn't disappear, but shrunk. democrats did great in michigan, but still couldn't get the legislature back.
to give you an idea of why that is. of how well republicans in michigan have tilted the field to benefit themselves. look at the congressional races there for the same election for 2012. more people in michigan voted for a democrat to be their member of congress than voted for a republican. democrats got almost 250,000 more votes for michigan in the last election than republicans did. but the result of that vote was that of the 14 seats up for grabs, nine of them went to republicans and five of them went to democrats. republicans have so gerrymandered the state that even though democrats got more votes, republicans got nearly double the democrats' number of seats. tadah, same thing in the legislature. 300,000 more votes in the state than republicans did. but by the magic of republican gerrymandering, democrats earning 300,000 more votes earned them eight fewer seats in the legislature than the republicans got. but in that same election, when michigan was busy voting for
democrats but getting republicans anyway, michiganders voted to repeal the radical emergency manager law. but still the republicans still held majorities in the legislature, five weeks after the election, the republicans passed a replacement bill to the one that just got repealed by the voters. only this time they passed it in a way that could not be repealed the way the old law was. and now 13 weeks after that, republicans in michigan are going for it. they're going for the big one. today at 2:00 p.m. rick snyder of michigan announced he would use the takeover law, the one that got repealed and they reinstated. he would use that to overrule the voting rights of the population of the largest city in michigan. with this takeover and considering all the other things they've taken over under this law this will put roughly half the black population of michigan under the direct control of governor rick snyder of michigan. if you are an african-american and you live in michigan, the chances are 1 in 2 you are allowed to vote for your own local officials.
half of you get to do that and the other half, rick snyder gets to decide for you and overrules your vote. the choice in michigan is supposed to be dictatorship over dysfunction. you're supposed to believe that if you give up democracy, well, democracy's nice, but you can't fix problems with democracy. so if you give up democracy, then you can fix what democracy can't fix. but with the exception of the one town that is marked on this graphic with a gold star, all of these places have been in and out of financial trouble for years now. they have been in and out of emergency management under different versions of the law. weaker law, stronger law, it has not mattered. only that one very small town with the star on it is the only one to ever emerge in good shape from losing its democracy. and then stay in good shape thereafter. giving up voting rights as a way of saving cities turns out does not save the cities. and so, yes, detroit has a problem, nobody says that detroit doesn't have a problem. but this emergency overseer thing that the republicans are doing in michigan, it does not
seem to be that solution to that problem. it is a radical policy, which the republicans say is justified by cities and towns and school districts being in dire financial straits. the problem is this radical policy does not seem to fix the problem of these places being in dire financial straits. if it doesn't fix the problem, why are they doing it? in detroit, the opposition to being taken over. the opposition to giving up their democratic form of government. right now looks like this. looks like people driving really deliberately slowly down the freeway at rush hour. just a few cars poking along, one with a sign that reads democracy and another that reads detroit emergency manager. they're undoubtedly infuriating many of the people they're inconveniencing by this traffic jam that is on purpose. the organizers say they know what they are doing is a pain, but they are doing what they can with what they have. they are doing a moderately wrong thing for what they say are the right reasons.
activists in detroit for the fifth time, taking to the freeways as of yesterday to drive super slowly during rush hour. to protest republicans impending takeover of michigan's largest city. michigan republican governor rick schneider made it official today on his order, detroit will be giving up the ability to elect their local officials in favor of a state-appointed overseer who can just do with the city whatever he wants. joining us now is one of the activists behind the freeway protests in detroit this week, pastor david bullock, national spokesperson of the change agent consortium, president of the rainbow push coalition and of the naacp. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> do you intend to keep going with these protests, this type of protest specifically now or other kinds of protests now that an emergency manager officially is taking over detroit? >> indeed. we intend to escalate our protests. rosa parks sat down in the wrong
seat on the right bus and disobeyed a law because it violated her human dignity. we are on freeways, on the right freeway going the wrong speed, because the law emergency management violates our dignity. and our only recourse at this point is protests. it's rallies, it's civil disobedience. but we will not turn around and go back in the corner. we're going to fight for our rights. >> one of the hallmarks of civil disobedience is that it is often disruptive to the lives of people who are not participating in the test. you get in people's way of interrupting what is essentially day-to-day normalcy to point out and dramatize what you are protesting against. that said, are you worried that you're just making detroit mad at you? do you know if you are persuading people rather than alienating them with this type of protest? >> indeed, it may be inconvenient for some. we've gotten a lot of positive feedback, though.
people who say we're with you. we were stuck in traffic today, but we understand that this kind of protest, this civil disobedience is needed to bring awareness to the effect of emergency management on disenfranchising democracy. think about the inconvenience of having your vote taken from you. the inconvenience of having democracy destroyed. the inconvenience of knowing that when you go to the ballot box in august or november, that really your vote has no value. i think that inconvenience far outweighs the temporary inconvenience of being stuck in traffic for a few hours. >> we have been covering the emergency management phenomenon in michigan for a long time now. you and i have had several discussions about it. and the feedback i always get whenever we do a segment on this in the show is oh, maddow, you just don't understand how serious the financial problems are here. if you understood how big the problem was, you wouldn't be raising a stink about what it takes to get an emergency
manager installed. in thinking about that critique, we have been looking at the track record of emergency management, whether it's actually effective at getting these towns and these school districts out of bad financial situations. it seems like michigan keeps taking over local democracy on the promise that that will let them fix these towns. but the towns don't get fixed by this process. why do you think that is? >> emergency management does not work. look, it hasn't worked in benton harbor, it hasn't worked in flint. it hasn't worked in highland park or highland park schools. it hasn't worked in dps. the bottom line is, there is no connection between a financial turn around and dismantling democracy. there is no relationship between taking people's right to vote, between disenfranchising their elected representatives and some kind of financial turn around. the emergency manager doesn't come in and bring tax revenue, doesn't come in and bring fire and police. doesn't come in and stop violence. the emergency manager does not come in and even target or home in on the long-term systemic problems that have led to the
financial crisis. this is not a solution that's viable. >> pastor david bullock, the national spokesperson of the change agent consortium. keep us apprised as this protest campaign continues. i think you're poised for more national discussion of this, these issues in part because of the way you are disrupting daily life in your city right now in order to do that. pastor, thank you very much for your time tonight. >> thank you so much. the annual conservative-o-rama known as cpac started in washington. and what an o-rama it was. stand by. that's next. [ male announcer ] from the way the bristles move to the way they clean, once you try an oral-b deep sweep power brush, you'll never want to go back. its dynamic power bristles reach between teeth to remove up to 76% more plaque than sonic in hard to reach areas. oral-b deep sweep 5000 power brush.
they gather every year in washington, d.c. to plot out world domination! or at least the future of the conservative movement and the future of the republican party. this year, cpac is kind of a big deal, right? after this last election, what lessons will be learned from the electoral drubbing the republicans took in 2012. who did conservatives consider to be the future of their movement. who is the leader of the republican party after bush and cheney? this is where they try to figure that stuff out. and today was day one of that process. on the agenda, for example, muffins and minimum owes as so you can question the chooch about the ultrasound law while dining on a corn muffin. and the united versions versus the united states. the end run around the american way of life. i think that one is about bike lanes. but this was the item on the agenda that caught my eye as soon as the cpac schedule was released last month. too many american wars?