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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  March 19, 2013 1:00am-1:59am PDT

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>> too close to the story? for refusing for critical? >> we didn't keep our distance. we didn't ask the right questions. we weren't obnoxious enough. that's our job. it's not to take the line that officials are giving you, but to probe and to poke holes at it and to test it, and we didn't do it sufficiently. >> why not? >> we got caught up in the sort of group mind of washington and group think was saying, yes, it's terribly important and this is something we must do. >> did they see it as a patriotic duty? >> there were reporters who quoted those retired intelligence firms or military officials who were saying this is not right. but those stories ran on page a-37 1/2. so yeah, they were there but that's not the way we should do
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it. this should be a sober anniversary, i think, for us. >> very much so. not intoxicated on self congratulation. but your colleague suggests that in his book that colin powell threw the stuff up in the air and said this is not real. >> clearly there were members of the administration who knew that -- who knew saddam hussein was a bad guy, and the world perhaps would be better off without him. but knew that our rationale, what we were saying about why we were going to go amass a huge army and invade a country was not true. >> eugene robinson, thank you so much for your insight. >> welcome.
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>> by the way, rachel maddow's documentary, hubris, selling the iraq war, airing this friday at 9 pm. "the rachel maddow show" starts now. thank you for talking about ubrous. i love to hear you talk about it. it's such an important thing. i really appreciate it. >> thank you so much for making that documentary. it's a great one. >> thank you. and thanks to you at home for joining us. we start with some jaw-dropping information about american politics that has been reported out by a british news source. it's the bbc. they have just aired a new documentary based on oval office tapes, which proves something about the american presidency and modern history that even the most conspiratorial among us would not be able to believe.
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but apparently it's all captured on tape. it's about the 1968 election. the democratic electorate was split. they were not unified behind their candidate. on the right, southern white democrats who were against civil rights, they were being peeled off to vote for george wallace, the symbol of proud segregation. also, different problem for the democrats. people hated the vietnam war. and the president at the time was a democrat, lyndon b. johnson. so if you were against the war, as most americans at that point were -- this is the gallop polling on the war -- the number of people who thought it was a mistake -- if you were against the war as increasingly
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everybody was, you were not psyched to vote for lbj's successor. so the democrats were losing their appeal in the south because of racism, and they were losing the anti-war vote. the republican candidate tried to take advantage of that split, and was this handsome devil. nixon in 1968 was running against a democratic party that he knew was split. he was, in response, pledging to get rid of the draft. and he claimed to have a plan to end the war. he argued that if you wanted the war to end, you needed to elect him. you needed to vote the democrats out of office because clearly lbj and his party, the democrats and the democratic party, hubert humphry had no idea how to end the war. what you needed was total change at the white house. the democrats had to go so nixon could come in and end vietnam. but then less than a week before the election, it all went horribly wrong for richard
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nixon, because less than a week before election, on halloween night, 1968, the democratic president, lbj, went on tv in a surprise nationally televised address. he made a surprise announcement that peace was at hand. the communist side, the vietnamese side was going to be make concessions at peace talks. the south vietnamese were going to agree to a deal. peace was at hand. the terms were all set. peace was at hand. in recognition of the fact that peace was about to be declared, the united states would step back right away and stop all military operations in vehement. lbj said that on thursday night. the election was going to be tuesday. turns out the democrats know how to end this war. that was bad news for richard nixon, but good news for the country who wanted the war to be over.
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good news for the people fighting the war. this was good news, right? almost. thursday night lbj made that announcement, that peace was about to be agreed to, by all sides in vietnam. that was thursday night. by saturday morning, never mind, deal was off. peace was not at hand because the south vietnamese side had decided actually it didn't want the deal. in fact, they didn't want to talk about a deal. they pulled out of the peace talks. and so the war was back on. what happened? what happened between thursday and saturday? now we know. >> good morning. how are you, my friend? >> fine. >> i've got one that's pretty rough for you. we have found that our friend, the republican nominee, our california friend, has been
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playing on the outskirts with our enemies and our friends both, he's been doing it through rather subterranean sources here, and he has been saying to the allies that you're going to get sold out. >> president lyndon johnson, 1968, saturday morning, november 1st, explaining to senator richard russell what had gone wrong with this peace deal that everybody thought was going to end the war. lbj was so sure this was going to end the war that he went on tv thursday night. the reason peace did not happen, what he was explaining on the phone, is that the republican nominee for president that year, richard nixon, had intervened in the peace talks to blow them up. he used an intermediary who was involved in the talks to approach the south vietnamese side and told them don't do it.
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these peace talks in paris was not going to be a good deal for them. they should not participate. they should just wait until after the election when he, richard nixon, would be president and he'd give them a much better deal. johnson was going to sell them out. he, richard nixon, was the one he should deal with. nixon's intermediary was caught on tape telling the ambassador, just hang on. we need the war to keep going through the election. it's outrageous, right? the war could have ended. it was on the verge of ending, except a candidate for office in our country thought that the war ending would help his opponent in the election. he thought he'd have a better chance of getting elected if the war kept going. so instead of getting the war to end, he did what he did. it was astonishing. and president johnson thought so too. >> and they oughtn't to be doing this. i think it would shock america
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if a principal candidate was playing with a source like this on a matter this important. >> yeah. >> president lyndon johnson there on the same day as that earlier tape remarking that, as far as he could tell, this is treason. he says it repeatedly on the tapes. he thinks that is a hanging offense. he thinks that was treason. this was four days before the election that year. having thought that the war was going to be over, now the president finds out the peace deal fell through because a candidate who wanted there not to be peace before the election intervened to make one side walk away. now, why didn't lbj say anything publicly? this is right before the election. can you imagine how the country would have reacted to that? this is a war the whole country was against. it was going to be over except candidate nixon intervened to undo the peace deal and keep the war going?
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can you imagine how angry the american public would have been. but lbj did not say anything publicly at the time because he thought he couldn't. the reason he thought he couldn't is the way he found out what nixon had done. the fbi illegally wire-tapped the phones of the south vietnamese ambassador. we couldn't let anybody know that we were illegally listening into the ambassador's phone lines so they couldn't let anybody know what they had heard. so nixon got away with it. and the october surprise. the halloween night surprise that the war was ending right before the election, that october surprise ended up getting undone. anybody who was anti-war in the country had no reason to vote for a democrat. the racist right wing voted peeled off the the vote on the other side. and yes, nixon won. he got by barely.
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squeaked by on the basis that he was the guy who knew how to end the war, not those dumb democrats. and of course nixon did not know how to end the war. he didn't have a plan. and instead of the war ending on halloween in 1968, the war went on five more years, in which time 15,000 americans were killed as were untold numbers of vietnamese. so that happened. that actually happened, and now in 2013, what are we supposed to do with that information? lbj is dead, nixon is dead, george wallace is dead. 15,000 americans are dead who otherwise would not have been. how does this get made right? it cannot get made right because the people of this decision cannot be brought back from the dead.
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you also can't get revenge. you can't indict nixon's ghost. but you can refuse to let him get away with it again. we can make sure it is a way we tell his history and the history of modern politics. you have to include it in the history, both so nobody gets away with it in the long run, but also so we don't do it again. so we at least don't dismiss this kind of possibility as some conspiracy theory of nonsense. so we knee there is precedent for this particular kind of evil. on friday night's show, chris hayes was here. one of the things chris talked about was the appearance at cpac this year of the last candidate for president, mitt romney. but the thing that struck me the
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most about mitt romney's speech, which was his first major public appearance since losing the presidency, of the part at the end of his speech where he talked about the iraq war. he described the iraq war as a war of liberation. we fought the iraq war to liberate the iraqi people from tyranny. the iraq war was supposedly to get saddam hussein's weapons of mass destruction and the nuclear weapons he was going to set off. we were going into that war to stop him from giving those biological and chemical weapons to the terrorists that they told us he was working with in al qaeda. that's why they told us we had to go to war in iraq. that's what they told us about why we had to have that war. none of it was true. ten years ago when we invaded iraq, we were told it was all about 9/11, that if we didn't go invade iraq, that the next attack by the same people would be a nuclear attack. a chemical weapons talk or a
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nuclear attack. the smoking gun would be a mushroom cloud. and that's not true. there was relationship between the iraqi government and the people who attacked us on 9/11. and yet, there's the republican presidential nominee, the last one to run, saying actually the iraq war was a war of liberation. at the republican convention this year, when they picked that nominee, the speech was given by the national security adviser during the iraq war, the one who said the smoking gun would be a mushroom cloud, who described that war in her speech that night at the convention as a hard hard decision to keep us from being attacked again. ten years later it is hard to come to terms with the fact we went to war based on something the president told us that was not true.
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there is nothing that can bring back the more than 4400 american troops who died in that war, the more than 30,000 american troops wounded will not be made whole. we cannot bring them back. we cannot heal their injuries retroactively. and george bush and dick cheney and condoleezza rice are still around. in terms of how we get right with this as a country, the accountability can't just be personal about the decision makers. it has to be about telling the story honestly about what happened so that they, like nixon, don't get away with it in the long run the way they got away with it in the short run, so we tell the story correctly and honestly, so it's not dismissed as a conspiracy theory by generations hence by americans who can't believe something this evil would happen in our country. it did. we need to teach it that way and learn it that way if we want to
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have any hope of it not happening again. in american politics there were plenty of democrats who went with the iraq war ten years ago, who believed it, and made it more convincing by virtue of their democratic endorsement. on the democratic side that at least as since become a source of shame. it's a strike against you in democratic politics. it's part of the reason we have a president named president obama who was not part of that mess and not hillary clinton who frankly was part of that mess. they have had to apologize and explain why they were wrong. that vote for the iraq war has held against them. on the republican side, nixon still does have a secret plan to end the war. on the republican side, iraq was a war of liberation if you ask them in 2013. on the republican side the iraq
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war is what kept us safe so we wouldn't get attacked again the way we did on 9/11 if you ask them in 2011. that smoking gun could have been a mushroom cloud. thank god we went in. we have been through two presidential election cycles since then, and this is still the top line at the republican party, trying to sell us the same lie. and until the republican party gets right on this, the history will never be told honestly because it will always be told as a contested and partisan thing. how does this get right? ♪ [ male announcer ] from the way the bristles move to the way they clean, once you try an oral-b deep sweep power brush, you'll never go back to a regular manual brush. its three cleaning zones with dynamic power bristles reach between teeth with more brush movements to remove up to 100% more plaque than a regular manual brush.
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intermezzo, like most sleep medicines, has some risk of dependency. common side effects are headache, nausea, and fatigue. so if you suffer from middle-of-the-night insomnia, ask your doctor about intermezzo and return to sleep again. ♪ the problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapon. but we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud. >> condoleezza rice talking about the lead-up to the iraq war in september 2002 about something that was not true. joining us now is retired army colonel lawrence wilkerson. he has been a truth teller about what went wrong. colonel wilkerson, thanks for joining us.
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how would you describe the prevailing mindset about the war in iraq? a lot of democrats supported the war. democrats essentially had to repent if they supported the war. how do you think republicans feel about it now? >> rachel, that depends on to whom you're speaking. some like myself, i think chuck hagel, i would describe as moderates, as hagel as said in the past that iraq was a catastrophe, still believe that and believe that history's verdict ultimately will be that. others in the party are trying desperately to defend the decision because they see it as impacting their future possibilities of particularly regaining the white house. and still others just don't want to listen.
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they're sort of like that crew that you were describing in your opening remarks that won't believe the truth even if it hits them in the face. and incidentally i was using the lbj revelations in my seminar today to demonstrate to my students some of the things that happen at the highest levels of power in this country. >> thinking about the republican possibility of regaining the white house, people are making that calculation about how they have to explain their past behavior, i think in any presidential year it's a 50/50 chance that a democrat or republican will take the white house, give or take the circumstances. but that's why i am worried about the republican party not sort of getting right about what happened there. because it's possible we are going to have a republican president sometime soon again, and i want to know that the republican party has been through an acknowledgement about what went wrong there, and some
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sort of process to make sure it doesn't happen again. do you feel like there is at least honesty that it was a mistake, that there's some effort to make sure it doesn't happen again? >> i wish i could say yes. i wish i could answer in the affirmative. i will tell you that one of the basic reasons i cast a vote for president obama this time around, even though i'm a republican, a second time around, although i'd lost some faith in him because he didn't close guantanamo and other things i wish he'd done, the main reason is because i kept thinking that mitt romney would be another george bush, that despite the fact there's always an inconsistency, of late there's development a schism in the foreign policy and mitt romney would indeed lead us down the road to another catastrophic, this time with iran. >> having been there while it was going so wrong, seeing it up
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close, when you think about our governance, do you think there's something that we can do now as a country to try to make it right, to fix the harm we did to ourselves as a country, not just politically. is there any kind of way we can fix the strategic error of that war internally and internationally? >> i think it boils down to the american people. i would like to say there's institutional change we could make statutorily or otherwise. i would like to say that we could elect different people. i would like to say all manner of things that would be easier to do, but i think the bottom line is the american people have got to get angry and they've got to start doing things, local things, state things, national things, whatever they can find or think to do. i was in great neck, new york, talking to a synagogue group this last weekend, and i'll tell
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you that all those people were war weary and sick and tired of all the money we've been spending. they're jewish americans and yet they see what we're doing in terms of israel, they see what aipac does from time to time in terms of influencing u.s. policy, and they see how it would lead potentially to another war, this time with iran as i said. and the american people need to get angry. they need to get as angry as these people were. they need to do things. they need to write their senators, write their representatives, call them. do whatever they can do within their capacity. some have a greater capacity than others. but it's ultimately going to take the american people to say we are sick and tired of the military instrument being the representation to the world. until we do that, we're going to have more of it. >> colonel wilkerson, that view that you are seeing out in the world, that's reflected in public opinion polling. that's people saying they think the war in iraq was a mistake.
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thank you so much for your time tonight, sir. i really appreciate having you here. >> thank you, rachel. >> a reminder that our look back at how the count was sold on the iraq war, hubris is going to air this friday at 9 pm eastern. today was a big day for american politics. by new, think betamax. think pong. boldly into the future. [ male announcer ] this is bob, a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke.
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good morning. it is 4:30 a.m. here in energy. it is 9:30 in the morning in rome. and the spectacular view inside st. peter's basilica, the world watching the vatican again today because leaders from around the world have gathered, there are hundreds of thousands of people in st. peter's square. this will be the official inaugural mass for st. francis. we had seen him earlier today. he was out and about in the
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crowd. some of them who had come before dawn to wait to be here for this historic event. already this morning pope francis entered the sacristy to be clothed for this rite. he heard the sound of silver trumpets and chants of you are peter, he is the successor to the throne of peter. together with the patriarchs of eastern catholic churches. and he went to pray at the tomb of st. peter. and he's assumed the modest miter, one symbol something very different than we saw eight years ago. this will be a much simpler ceremony, something we've seen from this new pope since the first moments he was elected. let's listen inside st. peter's basilica. ♪
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♪ >> joining me for this special coverage, dr. bartunic, and with me here in new york, a father from the trenton diocese. welcome to all of you. as we've been watching the first opening moments, what strikes you? >> well, the grandeur of st. peter's just take opposed against the simplicity of pope francis, who spoke of the humility of the cross, of mercy, and of simplicity.
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>> we're looking at these investments that seem very simple compared to what we might expect a pope to wear. even what he is wearing on his head. and there are a lot of jokes for people who don't understand what the different things are that cardinals and popes wear, but this is much smaller. >> typically the pope what is known as the uponity if i cal mighter, like 2 1/2 feet high. but the pope has chosen a more modest medium sized. average of an ordinary pastor or a church. with the brown and gold. he can see his investment is a simple investment. he wants to imstaitate st. fran.
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>> and we see the box which holding the fisherman's ring. it is used as a seal. in this case, it will not be solid gold. it is silver, it is plated in gold. another sign of a man who i think not only surprised us with his election, but someone whose every movement has suggested a different kind of papacy. >> i think it's definitely reflected what he thinks of himself. he realizes that as a bishop before and now as pope, he's just a servants of the people of god, and he expresses that in everything that he does. earlier this morning when he was driving through the crowd and greeting the faithful there, he actually stepped down from the popemobile and walked over to the side of the crowd where there was a handicapped man who had no arms and no legs and the
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pope leanedoff, blessed him, kissed him on the forehead. this is a pope who understands that his mission is to sefsht peop serve the people of god. and it's quite impressive. >> liz, as we spoke going into the conclave about what the cardinals were looking for, there was no doubt in those who gave interviews that they were looking for someone who coukoco inspire the people. we have already seen he bear hugs folks, he is happy to kiss children. he is out in the crowds and has to be making the vatican police and swiss guard a little nervous as much as he's been out and about. but his style is something that a lot of people are very early in this papacy embracing. >> it's an amazing thing. you're right, they were talking about someone who would be a witness to the joy of christian
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life. this joyful necessary and affection that he spreads everywhere he goes, and on top of that, this crossing of boundaries which for the italian, these boundaries that were so hard-fought between the vaticans and italian state, to see him step over this line and walk in and among the people reminds people that the church has no boundaries, the church is everywhere. and so this is a brand new wonderful spirit, like the holy spirit spreading all over the place. >> we mentioned the fact there are leaders from around the world that will aare there. the official u.s. delegation led by joe biden. and the sue peperior general ofe francis' jesuit order. and as i've been reading various
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op-ed pieces, the jesuit order still seems to be in the state of shock. we should tell people that this is an order that generally isn't have a lot of bishops and cardinals. there are people who eschew that kind of leadership. and so this has been something of a stunner for them. >> sure. saint ignatius didn't want its members to try to climb to power. something he fought against. but francis and ignatius are kindred spirits. both soldiers who underwent a strong conversion after seeing the glory of war wasn't where they wanted to go and they both embraced a different life oriented towards christ. so there is some connection between the two orders. ignatius admired francis. >> we also saw earlier some of the cardinals, the bishops from
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the orthodox church is there. he's the first orthodox patriarch to attend an inaugural mass. >> they split 1,000 years. what a sign of a new age when you have the patriarch standing there side by side with the pope, willing to after this 1,000 year period, there have been over occasions, but for the patriarch to come to this occasion in which the pope is being invested as the successor of st. peter, this is a tremendously important moment. this is a new opening towards the catholic church, one of the most exciting things happening right here. >> i agree. in fact you can see echos this began with paul vi whose ring the pope chooses to ring, the fisherman's ring comes from the reign of paul vi.
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>> and we've heard from religious leaders who talk about the fact that he opened the cathedral there for interfaith services. chief rabbi has spoken glowingly of him. he believes in reaching out to people all faiths and it will be interesting to see the impact he has in that area. but again, visible signs with representatives from so much different changes around the world as well as governments around the world. >> he gives to christ the kiss of peace. the altar comes from the jewish beginnings, the incense recalls
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the offers of the incense in rome, the sweetness which rises up to god, which carries our prayers from earth to heaven. >> and in another sign of his commitment to the poor, pope francis asked that people not travel great distances but instead take that money and particularly folks from latin america, from his argentina, he said take that money and give to the poor, but you see the huge crowds that have turn itted out. i understand that there had been people waiting overnight who wanted to be away to get a good vantage point to be able to see this installation mass. >> we were here about 6:00 this morning local time of course and there were many people waiting for those gates at the end of the road that lead to st. peter's square to be first, to just get in the front row to have a good view of pope francis. and those gates opened and
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people went running for it. looked like a rock concert in a way. so it shows how this pope has become so popular overnight. it took a very long tour on that jeep around the square, thousands of people packing the square giving the chance to see him up close and some of them of course got to touch him and to touch his hands. some of the children got a kiss. and as the father there was saying, he even stopped the car to go an kiss the forehead of as disabled man. so this is a man of the people, among the people and the people here are undering that. and they are reacting enthusiastically. >> claudio will stay among the big crowd. and a spectacular sight it is.
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>> indeed the pope -- his sister is not everyone there. imagine your family member, she was asked why will you not go. she said my brothers has commanded to us give the money to the poor, so i will do as he asks of me. >> the coat of arms that he will receive is the jesuit inspired one he used as archbishop of buenos aires. and let's listen in now to the mass. >> cardinal says may the god of peace who brought back from the dead our lord jesus christ, the great shepherd of the sheep, bestow upon you the pallium taken from the apostle peter. the good shepherd charged peter to feed his lambs and his sheep. today you succeed him as the bishop of this church to which he and the apostle paul were
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fathers in faith. may the spirit of truth who proceeds from the father grant you his abundant gifts of wisdom and eloquence in the ministry of confirming your brethren in the unity of faith. as the choir now sings from psalm 68, god shown forth as which he has shown from you in the strength most high guard you. the pallium is the collar worn by popes since the fourth century, a sign of authority. but a reminder that the authority comes only from jesus, the lamb of god. also meant to represent the lost, sick or weak sheep as the shepherd places on his shoulders. the pallium today is the exact same pallium that was once worn by pope benedict.
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six small red crosses and pins inserted into three of the crosses as a reminder of the nails that caused the wounds in each the hands and the feet of christ. the bishop emeritus of plbrusse prays. let us pray. o god who do not disappoint those who call upon you with upright and devout hearts, hear the fervent prayer of your church and pour forth your blessing upon your servant francis our pope. to whom through our humble service, you have granted privacy in the apostolic office. may he be strengthened by the gift of your holy spirit and
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worthily exercise his high ministry in accordance with the eminent carism he has received through christ our lord. and the people respond amen. the pallium the pope wears is also worn by all metropolitan archbishops as a sign of unity. >> this is part of the ceremony before the actual installation mass begins. we saw as you heard from the interpreter the pallium given to the pope. and now we will have the presentation of the fisherman's ring. you've heard us mention this. it is the symbol of his papacy as it is others. it's called of course that because st. peter was a fisherman, the first pope. and on the ring itself, st. peter is represented with the keys in his hands.
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>> and the symbol of his office, a poor fisherman from galilee. >> grant you the ring, the seal of peter the fisherman who put his hope in him and to whom the lord jesus entrusted the keys of the kingdom of help. today you suck steed peter as paul has taught. may the spirit of charity pour into our heart respect grant you the gentleness and strength to pre-seven through your ministry all those who believe in christ, in unity and fellowship. it's called the fisher man's ring. sometimes engraved with the
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image of st. peter fishing from boat and encircled with the name of the pope, a reminder of the gospel stories telling of the miraculous catch of fish after the lord tells peter and discipleses to let their nets be put out into the deep. pope francis' ring has the image of key as a he is often depicted in art. the reminder that christ gave the authority to forgive sins. it's worn by all popes and used to seal important documents and at the death or resignation of a pope, that ring is immediately destroyed. now six cardinals representing the college of cardinals will come forward to show their respect and obedience to pope francis and the choir will again
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sing you are peter. emeritus of the congregation for bishops. >> these cardinals represent three orders. and they essentially are there to offer their obedience to the pope, although this is something that all the cardinals already did the day after his election. and father, it strikes mes as we see some of them in these beautiful golden reasons, the contrast, the simplicity again of what we're seeing in the pope position. it is hard to imagine an installation mass where the pope has been so simply attired and he said as you see him so warmly greeting these cardinals. >> his simplicity is striking. as we were talking about the ring of st. peter, saint peter was a very simple man himself. as a matter of fact all the apostles that jesus first called
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were men of the people, normal people. and that's kind of what i think the holy father is evoking in his personality and in his style. and also with the symbol lick representations. and as the cardinals came up, you saw they kneeled and he immediately lifted them up and embraced them. in buenos aires he was away to form a lot of respect from his fellow cardinals. and he realizes that it's together that the bishops and cardinals and pope can serve the people of god best and i'm sure he'll be working in the same way as pope forming a real team of people to meet the needs of the church.
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>> let us acknowledge our sins and prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred ministries and say together i confess to all mighty god and to you my brothers and sisters that i have greatly sinned in my thoughts and in my words, in what i have done and in what i have failed to do. through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous thought, i ask blessed mary ever virgin all the angels and saints and you my brothers and sisters to pray for me to the lord our god. and the pope prays now may all mighty god have mercy on us, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life, amen. ♪ now the choir and people sing an ancient prayer in the greek language which expresses our aw before the majesty of god that acknowledges our need for his mercy.
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>> among the things that you will notice that are different in this pope is that he is no longer wearing the red shoes. >> no, black shoes. >> his own shoes. imagine that. >> and pants. >> and the message again that this must be sending about how he plans to run the vatican, how he plans to run the church, everything he is doing in these initial days are being looked at not just in the context of how it is affecting people and their does seem to be a very positive response to his very pastoral nature, but the simplicity and the humility and you have to wonder if some people in the vatican and in the hierarchy are saying this is going to be a very different kind of papacy on a very human level. >> yes, well, before he was elected pope, he did an interview in which he talked
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about the danger of a church that's self referential. which means that if we're just kind of focusing on the institution, just keeping the trains running on time, doing the same old thicng, then the church isn't fulfilling its mission in the world. and as bishop and now already as pope, his understanding of the process of eadvantagization is we have to live will the gospel and share the goods spell. it's simple. it's simple, it's very real, something you can't argue with. and i think that's a characteristic that he's shown just in less than a week of being pope. and i think it's something that as you said it's attractive to the people, but i also thinks it is kind of a shake up. even for me as a priest, kind of reflecting on the example of the spiritual father, it's forced me to reflect on how am i living my priesthood, have i fallen into a routine, do i need to rue knee the original spirit of christ and the spirit of the gospel. and i'm sure his co-workers in the vatican are thinking the
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same thing, wondering what the message is that god has for us through the testimony of this man through how he's begun his ministry and i think it's something also kind of captured our attention. we'll be watching closely to see the other manifestations of this spirit of simplicity and authenticity, living the gospel and showing what it means to love as christ loved even in simple ways. that's his style of evangelizati evangelization. capturing hearts in rome. >> and we saw this earlier in the week last week when he was elected, how quiet these hundreds of thousands of people can become when they take their cues from pope francis. let's listen. ♪
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♪ ♪
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♪ >> we're seeing some of the official crowd that has gathered, 132 official delegations attending, six sovereign rulers, 31 heads of state, three princes, and 11 other heads of government. and he already gave his first official audience, his one-on-one audience with the president of argentina, with whom he has clashed over the years, particularly on some of the hot-button issues that will also be an
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catholics, things like gay marriage and birth control. they seemed to have a good laugh. she gave him a tea that is apparently a favorite of pope francis. and it will be interesting among many things that we will be watch to go see his interaction with the political sphere. >> i think that's going to be a very important aspect of this pontifica pontificate. already this embracing of someone of the president of argentina with whom there has been a great deal of antagonism in the past. he's asked to see her many, many times and she refused. she actually refused to be present at religious services where he would be. and yet you would always find him serving the people on the ground as she is serving in the statehouse. and this is an interesting way to connect him up to pope john
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paul ii. lived in great conflict with the government, but at the same time managed to build a church in the place where the government had no intense of ever building a church. supposed to be a symbol, the steel mill factory, where there would never be a church. and yet i think this pope will manage to rebuild the church in the style of francis, not only in argentina, not only in rome, but i think we'll see it spreading through this tremendous message of love and acceptance of all men and women. >> and we're seeing these beautiful images everywhere you turn in st. peter's square, there is a beautiful work of art. on that political front, it's also very interesting we were talking about the argentinean president and here is someone who may have to adjust some of her own thinking because argentina by all accounts has


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