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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  March 21, 2013 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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political discourse, it's also driving some individuals to complete distraction. will the federal government begin stealing our money? yes! this late it's economic theory not of taxation, but outright theft was being discussed, but the cypriot government tried to introduce a new tax. though it was soundly rejected by the parliament, this didn't stop one particular television network from implying it might someday be proposed here in the united states. this nonsensical nothing was then followed by the asking of a question that appeared to come out of the nowhere. >> a research in killing jesus, do you know why jesus was killed? by the romans? >> that question has been considered by some of the finest theological minds in history. and it will be expounded from pull pits around the nation as
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we approach easter sunday. but all of them have clearly missed the point, according to mr. o'reilly. >> you don't know and shouldn't know, because it was about taxes. >> you don't know and you shouldn't know, because it was about taxes. now, as anyone with a modicum of biblical history will tell you, the death of christ was an act of substitutionary atonement. he neither lived nor died for taxes. in fact he simply said one should discharge one's responsibility to the state by rendering unto sees czar that is which is sees czar, but the purpose and meaning is spelled out by the prophet isaiah. he was pierced for our iniquities. the punment and business his wounds we are healed. he died for the sins of the
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world, including the lies and the misappropriation of his life by those whose sole purpose is to make money at his expense. thanks so much for watching. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. gunfight. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm crist matthews in washington. the shooting has begun at the ok corral. uchbt to stop the sale of assault weapons. go for it. joe biden says it's always a chance. the news from the battle is it's gown do background checks, which i hear could go either way. we might end up with the horror of newtown with nothing more than something about trafficking, secondhand
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purchases, but for all those who care about gun safety, let me repeat what i said, get ahold of your senator or member of congress and say you want a real background check on people who buy guns. get ahold of your senator, by calling 202-224-3121. if you don't know your senator or member of congress, fine, just go to and enter your zip code to find out who your congressman is. and to find your senator. you can then click on his or her name when it pops up. it will take you to their website with all their contact information. look, at the switchboards are jammed, wait a few minutes and try again. it means we're working, this thing is working. it's a good sign of the impact you're having. cynthia tucker is with the university of georgia, and sam tine is with the huffington post. sam, i hear you have some news,
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and i think the focus on back ground checks. will the senate include background checks in the actual main bill that goes before the senator? s. >> yeah, a bit of breaking news. i'm told reliably that senator harry reid will move a bill starting tonight and it would have background checks in the base component of it, which means it won't be offered as an amendment. that's a victory for gun control advocates. they wanted it to be in the base bill. they thought without it reform would be toothless. now they'll get the fight they want and we'll see how the votes play out. >> what will the elements be? background checks, something on traffics. >> federal trafficking ban. >> secondhand purchases. >> and the final component will be measures for enhanced school safety. everything else i'm guessing from my reporting would have to be added via an amendment, which means a bad on high-capacity magazines would also have to be added, it still could get there with 60 votes, still a victory
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tonight for gun control advocates if this reporting is true that they will have background checks in the base bill. >> i'm still making the push, because they have to vote for the bill even if it's in the bill. let me ask you about the reporting here. does this mean that the senate majority leader harry reid from nevada does believe he can get 60 votes for a bill which includes tougher, broader background check program? >> reporter: that's exactly what it means, the whole idea was to put some base piece of legislation on the floor that could pass. they wouldn't put a provision into the bill if they thought it could endanger the entire bill. that was the logic behind making the bill via amendment. they didn't want to endanger the whole bill, but they wanted to show me you have 60 votes. by attaches it, he does believe he has 60 votes to pass the senate. but this is all a sideshow, because if john boehner doesn't decide to pick this up in the house, then for naught. >> well, it's not for fought if
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he can put the pressure on the house. >> that's true. >> that's certainly to me a pretty tough position to be in. if you're boehner, this has passed the upper house, i don't think the members should get a vote on it. cynthia, if sam's reporting is right, and he is a first-rate reporter, and we have a bill that includes background checks, does 2 including the ban? does it include the magazine or whatever, does it have something worth while in it? >> chris, i would like to know more about the details of the background check bill, because one of the fights between democrats and republicans has been over recordkeeping. democrats say if you don't require private sellers to keep any report of a background check, how do we even know that the background check was down? republicans have been say no records of any kind because of course the gun lobby insists that any recordkeeping will lead
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the government to confiscation of guns. that's never happened, it's never going to happen, but that's where republicans have stood. i would like to know what -- >> sill thinkia, i think there was a time we confiscated all the cars in this country because we registered them? >> machine gun ownership has been a matter of very prohibitive restricted ownership for decades now. you may own a machine gun, but you have to have a federal license. it has to be registered, but those guns have not been confiscated itches those collectors still have their machine guns at home, i hope locked up safely. >> that's from the days of machine gun cully back in the fights in chicago. sam, can you report something on the actual language of this background check provision? >> i still need to get my sources, but cynthia is right,
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the devil is in the details on this one. this has been the problem between schumer and coburn, what to do with a sale record. i think gun control advocates have a legitimate point, you have a toothless federal trafficking statute if you don't have a record of sale. how do you go about prosecuting a straw seller if you can't prove that a sale was even made? that's been a sticking point. you would have to be in the room. at the same time coburn and others argue why would you need a sale for a family-to-family transaction. they're trying to negotiate around that. i'm hoping my reporting can bear out what they finalized with respect to that. that is the key sticking point. and we're talking, sam, about a vote right up to the two-week easter vacation, more than two weeks from now, sometimes in april? >> yeah, i think that is the plan right now. obviously things can change, depending on negotiations. keep in mind tom coburn want the only republican in the game here. we have a number of republicans
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they're looking at. mark kirk who does not have a good nra rating, is a coresponsibilitiesor or was a co-sponsor for schumer. he's looking for other people to get. coburn is the one they wanted to get, because he thought he could bring 15 or more republicans with him, but there are different areas to getting this through the senate. joe biden said today he wasn't giving up on a ban. he joined mayor bloomberg and families of the newtown connecticut shooting victims that called for the ban despite harry reid's decision to not include it in an overall gun bill. let's listen to the vp. >> for all those who say we shouldn't and can't ban assault weapons, for all those who say the politics is too heart, how can they say that, when you take a look at those 20 beautiful babies and what happened to them? and those six teachers and at march tors? for all those who say we
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shouldn't or couldn't ban high-capacity magazines, i ask them one question -- think about newtown. think about new does thtown. think about what happened when gabby giffords, my good friend, was shot and mortally wounded. think about when the young man had to try to change the clip. had he only had a ten-round clip, when he changed the clip and fumbled, how many more people would have been alive? >> where is the progressive side going to come down on this? i try to be program and not just have a value sim. cynthia, it seems to me that a democratic majority in the senate is basically saying they can't do it. most democrats overwhelmingly believe there would be a minimal reaction to what happened, which would be to restore the assault weapon pans from the 1990s. no ban is likely to pass now. no limit on the size of the maing sine. you can't have a 30-round clip or anything like that anymore.
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that's not being considered really, of course they'll be coming up in amendments, but not really as the main channel here of opportunity. what do you maybe of this? how will it look in history? >> chris, catherine, i am so disappointed by this, particularly in democrats. certainly the reporters in washington have been saying for weeks now that the assault weapons ban probably wouldn't pass, but i don't know why democrats haven't stood up for it. we had one in this country for ten years. someone please explain to me how a firearms enthusiast's second amendment rights were infringed upon by that? i don't remember any hunter saying in that ten-year period, well, i spotted a ten-point buck, but i couldn't get him because i didn't have an assault rifle at hand. i don't remember a -- >> i agree with you. >> i can't protect my family because i didn't have an assault weapon bans.
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>> i'm with you. red state democrats up for reelection, states carried by romney, but they have to win it in 2014, they face pressure from both the right and to some extent programs as much but not necessarily from the level. the head of the change campaign committee said it will hurt democrats. with dustwuns it will be a major election issue for democrats opposing strong gun laws. in other words, the real democrats won't show, which in an off year would be a very bad idea. if there's a credible primary challenge, a vote would absolutely hurt an incumbent democrat. that's from howard green. let's look at they states now. it looks to me, sam, that you have states like out west, i want to see this list of human. pryor in arrange saw, in arc, mary landrieu, kay hagen, there's a lot of senators who have to run in conservative states, mitt romney states. how do they deal with this issue this.
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>> you know the left, the progressive community hasn't made that much of a stink about the assault weapons ban. that might be because they recognize the political difficulties, but my sense is they recognize the assault weapon is using a very small actual number of violent crimes, violent gun crimes. they think there's studies that suggest it's down to about 2%. they recognize the bill would have a much bigger impact on reducing gun violence. so when i talk to progressives, they don't get caught up over it. the high-capacity magazine issue is a whole other thing. i haven't heard a constructive argument in defense of -- >> i'll give you one. how would you like to be a police officer up against a semiautomatic. >> i wouldn't. i don't know why you're asking me that question. i wouldn't want to be that person at all. they're not going to waste their political capital on the assault weapons ban. and keep in mind, it polls at 9 on%. what else polls at 90%.
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>> we're all together on this one. it's about background checks. if you care get ahold of your congressman or senator, and say you want a new requirement or newtown means nothing. thank you both. coming up, standing in the school house door, for all the republicans, hopeful talk of changes to be made and lessons learned, about you when it comes to abortion rights and gale marriage, their tomorrow is looking a lot like their yesterday. legislatures are moving backwards or abortion rights. the gop leadership is nowhere, anywhere to be heard of on same-sex marriage. also months after the election there's a fight over the leadership of the rep party between two newcomers. we believe marco rubio has some juice, and the libertarian hot hand is rand paul. their fight may determine who is the gop nomination in 2016. a conservative newspapers in
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israel on the president's trip. the president seems to have won over many skeptical israelis. that may have real political consequences back home here. and sarah palin is back, or was that tina fey? >> same-sex marriage, what is your view on that, please? >> well, the bible says it's gross. a lot of the amazing wonderful people i met in the audience of "dancing with the stars" seem to go that way, but no. i love the way she says that. that might be the best political impression ever. this is "hardball," your place for politics. oked vacation!♪ ♪ ♪booking dot yeaaaahhh! as your life changes, fidelity is there
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i know what our principles are and i know our party believes marriage is between one man and one woman, but i know we have a party that will le inclusive, will listen to people and allow differences of opinion in our party and we're going to move forward and build. welcome back to "hardball." was that a person or a taped machine, one of those pep pets. that was reince priebus. he's saying the right things, and you heard about the gop learning from mistake, about becoming a more inclusive party, but the reality is very different. the party is mosque backwards on self fronts with states with
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republican legislature routinely enacting more restrictive abortion laws. the bottom line right now is that the gop is changing its message sounding but not its policies. michael steele is the former chair, a very good chair, and he won a lot of election. and stephanie sherock. president of emily's list. are you pat san or nonpartisan? >> we're partisan, all democrats. >> why don't do you say progressive? >> progressive democratic women. >> a subset. let's get serious. your party has had a very bad report this past election. . let's talk about young people, in order to make people feel better about being republicans, your chair right now, mr. priebus is saying let's talk more positively about gales,
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about more different views on issues, but he's really not doing anything. >> no, and that's going to be -- >> he's not telling anybody to change. >> in one sense you're not saying anything new. you didn't need to spend $10 million to figure that out. it's very obvious after the election, just after 2006 and 2008. we had a people problem. it's beyond the message. it's how we connect to people and how they respond. number two, with respect to young people they are going to be the outcome determinative factor for the party. the future will rest in their hands, and their attitudes are shifting and changing, and how the national leadership begins to reshape the argument. i mean, look, we are a party that believes very firmly in the marriage between a man and a woman. how do you express that without alienating those who believe differently will be the challenge. >> you know the gas stations night training, if you -- if you
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changed the label, would that change the wine? >> it would not. it would still be bad wine. >> what does he think he's accomplishing the mind people notice it tastes like the old stuff? what are they going to do? >> they're not going to join the party. >> no they're absolutely not. you talk about young people. women, there's been a continuing growing gender gap. the ryan budget, devastating to women and families, violence against women act. it took a year and a half to get it reauthorized. what's happening in the state legislatures, state by state, rolling back the clock on women's rights, is going to come back. it's already fakeding the gender gap. >> and rpg in congress are not exactly jumping on the marriage equality bandwagon. saxby chambliss thought politico, quote, i'm not gale, so i'm not going to marry one. i love that. it means absolutely nothing.
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in the same article, lindsey graham says i believe in traditional marriage, at least he without animosity. figure that one out. i don't mind if people are able to transfer their property, visit their loved ones in hospitals, but marriage to me, i've stayed with the concept of traditionally marriage. >> i love that phrase you. they're so awkward in saying something. first of all the party keeping says marriage is between one man and one woman. why do -- >> they say it that way, because that falls into the argument that when you open up this pandora's box that it would lead to marriage between -- >> or among. >> among more than one person. it's silly. oh, that's a debate. >> there are some very strong -- and i think important voices of gale republicans within the party. >> yes, they always astound me. >> the go proud republicans and others need to be expressed and to help move the party along in this argument.
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keep this in mind. there are gale members -- >> of course there are up up on capitol hill gale staffers in both parties and they support -- >> but you still have other national republicans, governor chris christie this week who refuses to take a position on a piece of legislation on gay conversion therapy. >> what's the state's involve? i'm a libertarian. why would the state ever against involved in conversion therapy one way or the other? >> because it's proven very, very damaging particularly to young lesbians and gays across the country. the state is saying we nod need to do that i want how do you stop someone who privately wants to do it? >> we don't want the state sanctioning such an event, either. how are you even open that that idea? >> i don't believe it in, i
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don't believe in converting people. i think we have to stop with a little bit is too much 16-ounce living around here. >> true on that. i don't know the details behind what governor christie has been told about this or knows about it, and hence why he hasn't taken a position. i would assume that, having been in that position as lieutenant governor, the stuff comes across the desk, what's your view? i need to know more. there's more to this. let's talk about the issue that means a lot to women, abortion rights. "mother jones" pointed out today, 14 states have republican governor, arkansas passed a law earlier this week banning abortion after 12 weeks, but earlier this week north dakota outdid it. they passed the heartbeat bills, banning abortions after just six weeks. let me get back to you, and the question here, stephanie is, why are they doing this? why are they pushing back on
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rights? we don't have to agree with abortion. a lot of people don't like it, i don't like it, period, as a practice. certainly don't like it as birth control, certainly not as a first resort, but when the law changes to squeeze down that window, where a woman, a girl, a teenager discovers she's pregnant, only has a little time to decide this thing. >> and in six weeks? >> when do you know? when do you normally know? >> i have a lot of friends who didn't know as six weeks. >> give me the politics of this. these legislatures are really controlled by incredibly conservative arm of the republican party right now, that is driving these policies backwards? i can only assume that they want to make the women the problem and put it on them to fix it. the truth is this is about -- >> what if they passed laws against premarital sex? start with that one. >> let's see how that goes.
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>> how about being there for the takeoff, not the landing? >> this is really -- >> it's always blaming it on the woman and time -- >> these laws are unconstitutional. >> i think that's the key point. >> they're trying to get something to the united states supreme court. that's what they're trying to do. >> can i take that point? the precedent has been set, but the precedent is precedent, not necessarily challenged. that's what i think you're seeing here, as a certainly level for certain states. they're devising these bills to go at roe versus wade from a constitutional angle so there's a definitive decision one way or another. that's why you're seeing some of these. they're also reflective of some of the attitudes. >> you know what, the preachers, rabbis, the government, people -- they got on the pulpit this weekend and started issuing statements -- try to avoid unprotected sex, you know what i mean?
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anyway, michael steele, stephanie sherock. you want next the return of sarah palin means the return of tina fey and her fantastic impression. >> you served only half a term. what's the right term to address? >> well, i'll tell you, i don't know. and -- i'm a half governor, or you could call me a maverick at large. this is america.
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address? >> well, i'll tell ya, i don't know. and -- i'm a half governor, or you could call me a maverick at large. >> you're fond of shooting wolves from a helicopters, which is understandable enough. have your views on gun laws or wolves changed at all? >> you know, jimmy, i believe -- if everybody had guns, there would be fewer guns in the source. >> same-sex marriage, what is your view on that, please? >> the bible says it's gross. a lot of the amazing wonderful people i met in the audience at "dancing with the stars" seems to go that way. >> right. >> but no. how does a woman like you make her way through a man's world? >> i don't think of it as a man's world or a woman's world unless again we're talking about marriage. i think of it as people being mavericks or not being a maverick. started to laugh there.
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by the way, it never gets old. she's the best. next, early this week i showed you this picture of the satan character from the history channel's mini series "the bible." during the broadcast, twitter exploded with comments about how the character looked like president obama, though the network immediately denied that the resemblance was intentional. rick wiles agrees that the film mashs did not go out and make satan to look like president obama, but still says it was on no accident. >> i don't believe these intentional portrayed the lucifer character to look like mr. obama. i think god guided the hands of the makeup artist and blinded the eyes of everybody on the movie set while it was being recorded, and the spiritual blinders were removed sunday night when the program was broadcast nationally on the history channel. >> how is that for an explanation of free will? that tops michele bachmann
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saying hurricane irene was a sign from god to cut government spending. hmm. speaking of her, you know how she's celebrating the third anniversary of the affordable care act, obama care? by trying tots rid of t. >> let 'repeal this failure before this literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens. let's not do that. let's love people. let's care about people. let's repeal it now while we can. so what does she mean by repeal it now while we can? it's been three years and over 30 failed attempts at repeal by house republicans. the law was upheld by the supreme court, president obama was even reelected. some republican governors are planning for the expansion. up next, marco rube yo and rand paul, who has the juice on the right wing? this will be fun for people on the left. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.
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i'm bertha cooperation with your market wrap. words about cyprus sending stocks lower, while oracle shares weighed on the tech indecent. the number of americans ticked hire last week by 2,000, but claims filings remain at five-year homes. and home restales hit a three-month high, but below forecast. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." breaking news right now. the senate majority leader harry reid has announced right now he will in fact bring a bill to the
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senate floor to reduce gun violence, and it will include background checks, also school safety and gun trafficking provisions. senator reid says he'll aallow votes on amendments including the ban and limits on high-capacity magazines, but he says any big his brings to the floor must include those background checks. now to the battle to 2016 already under way. on the republican side being fought between two relative newcomers. florida as marco rubio and kentucky's rand paul. "new york times" reported just today, for better or words they have come to represent this moment's forth in the republican road. mr. rubio, who decided the republican establishment in 2010 with his brash primary challenge to goismor charlie crist's senate run looks like the establishment's man for now. mr. paul, as he try toss expand his appeal beyond the libertarian base of his father, ron paul, has become the face of
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radically smaller government. both rubio and paul came to washington with solid tea party credentials, but represent very different wings. one of them might just end up being the republican gnome sneak. chip saltzmann ran mike huckabee's campaign, and willie brown, of course, the -- chip, you're the republican. i think it comes down to juice, that sense of life, of protoplasm, of excitement, of -- it has many different means, but charisma, excitement. do these two guys represent the exciting candidates in your party? >> well, they do today. we always talk about does a candidate have the it factor. they certainly both have it right now. chris, as you well know, the path to the white house is long and widy. there's a lot of next presidents to the understand bodies on the road. it's a long time between now and then. >> let's not be sheepish. do you sense right now they have the juice? ivities absolutely.
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they both have great national names, they have organizations. they're going different paths. senator rubio is more the establishment route, and senator paul seems to be like he's going to take the antiestablishment creds all the way to the bank and will double down any chance he gets. >> youth, late 30s, early 40s, is that a big thing in the party. are you unlikely to bring in an older character? an incentive for you guys to go young perhaps against hillary clinton, joe biden, someone like that? >> i think it certainly helps. we can learn from what beat us last time. barack obama was the youthful candidate four years ago. he rode that pretty well. you 2k3we9 a lot of excitement, more people involved, you grow that tent. i think senator rubo and rand paul both do that right now. >> let me go do willingie brown in california. let me ask you about this, the prospects, what do you see? who would you least like to go up against if you were secretary
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clinton or joe biden? >> i think they would prefer not to have to face charlie crist or anybody like him? in this case obviously the governor of new jersey. >> crist christie? >> yeah, i like charlie crist better, because that was a better contrast, but chris christie is the one guy these two people would not like to face, simply because he can go into the democratic world and have some credibility as he's proven almost daily in new jersey. >> can he keep up? i want to get back to the two younger guy that is seem hot. can a guy like christie keep up this attitude of it's none of your business, that sort of street talk that's made him popular? ed koch did it for like 12 years before he ran out of that steam. can you keep up that way in politics, to just by dismissive and mouthy? does it work? >> i don't think he would want
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it to be described as dismissive, or out of sync. i think what he would like to be is a common fan, the football fan, the guy who yells at the referee. everybody identifies with that guy, or at least a majority of people do. that's what this guy has been doing. now, on the other hand, the two guys you were talking about at the outset and the two guys at the "new york times" talked about in my opinion, they do represent who the republican party really is. they also represent the republican party that i guarantee you both ms. clinton and mr. biden would like to see in 2016, because for sure they can defeat that republican party. >> okay. let me ask you that, chip, you're the insider republican. what would scare -- what would attract -- i see real attraction for they guise marco rubio has a style i like.
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the other guy is so far to the right, he brings back the goldwater urge, that we may not win, but we'll have a hell of a time. >> we're going 20 go down fights as long as they believe it's right. they're two different types of people even though they started off from the same side. they fought and clawed every step of the way. that gives them a lot of street cred with grass-roots republicans everywhere. i think the one who keeps that fight alive, that doesn't go washington, so to speak, will have a chance. >> can jeb run with the war in iraq so unpopular now? can he run with his brother still around? politically? >> i think jeb bush has carved out his own segment, especially with education, but there's always the bush name. that's good and bad, but they've been a bush in the white house forever, there's a lot of people
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that don't remember a republican president bus george bush. thank you, chip. you can't bring your brother to the convention with you, you have problems. thank you, mr. mayor for coming on again. up next, the president is in the middle east. he seems to be winning over many skeptical israelis especially the young who are not skeptical. that could be good things for the president. this is big positive trip for him. this is "hardball," the pla is for politics. i'm the world's worst cleaning lady. i'm here in your home, having a pretty spectacular tuesday.
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well, could 2013 be the year of the woman mayor? consider this. christine quinn is the likely front-runner in the mayor's race in the country's largest city of new york. she would be the first female mayor in new york history in los angeles it's a matchup between the controller, and if gruel wins she could be the first l.a. mayor. in houston, the country's fourth largest city, is set to elect the second female mayor. the only outlier is chicago. bet on rahm. we'll be right back. this day calls you. to fight chronic osteoarthritis pain.
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those who adhere to the ideology of rejecting israel's right to exist, they might as well reject the earth beneath them or the sky above, because israel is not going anywhere. so long as there is a united states of america -- [ speaking foreign language ] -- you are not alone. we're back. that was president obama, of course, speaking earlier today in jerusalem to an audience of more than 2,000 israeli citizens, mostly young people. the speech was interrupted frequently by applause. he addressed peace talks with palestinians and the need for a palestinian state. this is very important. listen to this. >> i also believe it's important to be open and honest, especially with your friends. politically, given the strong bipartisan support for israel in america, the easiest thing for
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me to do would be to put this issue aside, just express unconditionable support for whatever israel decides to do. that would be the easiest political path. but i want you to know that i speak as a friend who is deeply concerned and committed to your future. the only way for israel to endure and thrive as a jewish and democratic state is through the realization of an independent and viable palestine. that is true. overall the trip has been seen as a big success for the president, helping to improve his image in to improve his ima where he hasn't enjoyed a lot of popularity in the past. by the way, the man to the right, netanyahu, has been frosty. he endorsed his rival, mitt
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romney, in his last campaign. look at them. in that improved relationship, it may pay political dividends for the president here. robert reich is actually now president of the center for middle east peace and peter is editor at "the daily beast." peter, let me go to robert first. fascinating comment from the prime minister of israel. first of all, he said, he's not sure if iran decides to go nuclear with their weaponry, that would take a year from them to real weaponize it. i thought that was very flexible and not at all war-like. >> you're right. and what the prime minister of israeli sengsly did was buy into the american time frame and what he was signaling to both the united states and, more importantly, to iran, and resip indicated for by president obama
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is that the united states and israel stands shoulder to shoulder in terms of the time frame as well as defenses, intelligence, military cooperation so the iranians should understand that there is a common belief between the united states and israel in terms of preventing iran and he got an endorsement of the american plan to prevent iran from becoming a nuclear weapon. >> peter, do you see it the same way, as common ground now? >> well, i think what obama did was buy himself some time. remember, there's a lot of opposition inside the establishment to unilaterally strike anyway. the task will come if the u.s. gets close to a diplomatic deal with iran, would israel support any deal that the united states could manage to get with iran? i think that would be the real test. >> but why does it matter?
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if we get a deal with iran for them not to go nuclear in terms of weapon, why does it matter if israel opposes that if we accomplish our goal? >> because i think a lot of republicans in congress, frankly, would stand with netanyahu. >> our government. >> i think it would mean -- if there's going to be a deal, we would have to give on something. it will not be a complete capitulation. there will have to be and take more than time, he bought time, as peter said, but he also bought leverage. what prime minister netanyahu has been arguing and many people in the united states has been arguing and the president accepts is that in order to get iran to the position we hope to bring them to, which is where they negotiate away their
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nuclear capacity, in order to do that, they have to perceive a credible threat, if that is military. but now with prime minister n netanyahu -- >> it seems that everybody talks every four years with the jewish voters how it's going to go republican. mcgovern against nixon, the weird election of '72 or maybe during the reagan period. is this really a problem for obama at all politically, that he has a problem with the jewish committee? >> no, it's nonsense. even mcgovern won two-thirds of the jewish vote in 1972. the jewish vote has been amongst the most stable in american politics, basically three-quarters for the democrats really since fdr, since al smith in 1928 and it's because americans use vote to the left on domestic issues. they don't primarily vote on israel and that's why these things don't change very much.
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i don't think this has to do with the jewish vote at all. i think it has to do with obama's views on national interest in the middle east. >> what about pollard, the spy. he's been in prison for a very long time. he wasn't spying on us, he was spying on arabs. he broke the law. he's a criminal. it seems if he makes a statement of apology, deep belief that he shouldn't have done it, we should let him out. what do you think? >> i think that jonathan pollard is culpable, guilty. the only question is, is the sentence proportionate to the crime? at this point i think it's now disproportionately severe. >> what do you think about that, peter? 28 years is more than nelson mandela. i mean, it's a long time and i wonder whether doing something wrong, he's got to say something, i think, myself. i want to hear him say something, this sent what freandly government should do to another government. your thoughts? >> i'm not sure we entirely know
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the severity of what he did. when bill clinton got close to releasing jonathan pollard in the late 1990s when benjamin netanyahu was first prime minister, his own cia director threatened to resign and they may know things that we don't know. again, i'm not saying i'm against commuting a sentence, i just think there's some things we don't know about what in fact he did. >> you're right. but it's 12 more years that he's served. >> yes. >> by the way, the way clinton handled those things was not the best part of his presidency. thank you, robert wexler and peter, who improves his image with me every day. we'll be back after this. [ kitt ] you know what's impressive? a talking car.
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