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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  May 1, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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absolutely. but i still think the pressure will build. and the nonpartisan congressional budget office has said the other issue is the silent job killer. 750,000 fewer american jobs at the end of this year if we keep the sequester in place. >> congressman, thank you so much. that is "all in" for this evening, "the rachel maddow show" starts now. good evening, rachel. i was racing to get in there on time. >> i can be the rachel maddow star. i like that. i was fishing there, thank you, chris, appreciate it. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. the basic story, the basic facts of the boston marathon bombing, at this hour, those basic facts remain the same as we have previously understood. the two suspects are two brothers, one aged 26, who's now dead, one age 19 who's being held in federal prison recovering from multiple gunshot wounds. they lived in cambridge, massachusetts. immigrated from russia about a decade ago. after he was caught four days after the bombing, the initial interrogation of the surviving
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suspect reported a confession to the bombings, motivated by religious extremism, the assertion the brothers learned to make the bombs from instructions on the internet. the suspect also reportedly asserted that he and his brother did not have any connections to any other terrorist, individuals, or groups, either here or abroad. that basic story of the case remains unchanged today. but with the news today of three additional arrests in connection with this case, we now do have explanations for some sort of tangents or stray elements in that basic story that previously had not been explained. specifically, there are three things that have happened during the investigation already that did not necessarily make sense before, but now with today's news, now they are starting to make sense. the first was the two arrests that happened on immigration violations in new bedford, massachusetts, on the day after the bombing suspect was caught.
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now we have more of an explanation on those two people arrested and taken into custody on immigration violations and how that is connected to the bombing case. the second thing was the shutdown that same day of the whole campus of umass dartmouth, that whole college campus. now we have more of an explanation why that happened, as well. the third thing was the fbi searching a landfill in new bedford, mass. now we know what they were looking for and now we know that they found it. it all started to unravel here this morning at a hearing in front of a federal immigration judge in boston. these were the two men who were picked up on immigration violations the morning after the bombing suspect was caught. they attended this hearing with the immigration judge this morning via video conference. their images got beamed into the courtroom via satellite from where they sat in the suffolk
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county jail. the judge told them they were being held in prison for overstaying their student visas. their lawyers disputed that was true, but importantly, these young men were also told this morning at this first hearing since they were first arrested, they were told they are not charged with any crime. not charged. that was this morning. this afternoon, that changed when the fbi released this criminal complaint describing they might not have been charged with anything this morning, but as of this afternoon, they are being charged with a crime. they are being charged along with one other young man. the two guys with the immigration issue are from kazakhstan. it's on the other side of the caspian sea. it does abut kyrgyzstan. even though kazakhstan is not part of the old soviet union, anyone from kazakhstan is likely to speak russian. both men ended up at the same time at dzhokhar tsarnaev, the younger and surviving bombing suspect. today's criminal complaint alleges that these two young men, along with a third young man, a friend of dzhokhar tsarnaev's from college, today's
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criminal complaint alleges these three young men essentially reacted in a way they should not have reacted when they realized that one of the bombing suspects was their buddy, was their friend from umass. the complaint alleges the night the fbi released the photos of the tsarnaev brothers identifying them as the bombing suspects, dzhokhar's friends who recognized him from umass recognized that it was him in the photos, they reacted by going to his dorm room on campus, they convinced his roommate to let them in, and they took from dzhokhar's dorm room his laptop and a backpack. the backpack reportedly contained a number of fireworks, or at least the outside containers of fireworks that had been emptied of their incendiary powder. fireworks incendiary powder is said to be one of the components of the boston marathon bombs. these three young men, knowing their friend was a suspect in the boston marathon bombings allegedly took his laptop, the backpack containing those fireworks, took it to an apartment and then decided they
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would throw the backpack away. they threw it in a nearby dumpster. if that was their plan, as is alleged in this criminal complaint today, it was a dumb plan and it did not work. the fbi's first interview with this young man, this young umass dartmouth student happened on friday the 19th. we now know the previously unexplained shutdown of the umass dartmouth campus happened that same day. we know his friends, the kazakh guys were arrested on immigration violations the same day. now we know the reason fbi agents were searching the new bedford landfill is because these young men told them where and when they dumped the suspect's backpack and the police followed the trail of that trash to dig it back up. we know they got from the landfill what they say is the
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backpack with the fireworks in it, and we know that because the fbi has released this photo. we also know that they got the laptop, because we were told earlier this evening the laptop is now in fbi custody. the two young kazakh men are being charged on conspiracy to obstruct justice. the other young man is being charged on lying to law enforcement. he could get eight years in prison, the others could get five in prison. all three are accused of blocking the investigation of the boston marathon bombing by lying and trying to hide and destroy what looks to be damning evidence. that's today's developments. those developments do not change the basic facts of the bombing, but they do drag a whole new cast of characters into it, and they do explain a whole bunch of things how we have seen the investigation unfold thus far that we could not explain before today. we've got a former senior fbi official on deck to help us understand the importance of these arrests today and what we
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learned because of them. he'll be with us in just a moment. but i want to start first with michael isikoff with the latest. mike, thanks very much for being with us. i really appreciate your time. >> good to be with you, rachel. >> is there more to add to the factual picture tonight beyond what i just summed up from the criminal complaint in terms of our overall understanding? >> i think you basically got it right there, rachel, but i want to emphasize a couple of points first here. as everybody has said all day long, there's no evidence that these kids had any prior knowledge of the bombing, played any role in the bombing, were accomplices in any way, and clearly they did things, if as alleged in the fbi complaint, are pretty stupid and indefensible, going to that apartment, removing evidence. but there's a couple things that are absent from the affidavit that are worth pointing out here. and you eluded to one of them. the laptop computer, they took,
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in addition to the fireworks, they took the laptop computer from the apartment, from tsarnaev's room, and took it back to their new bedford apartment. and then the affidavit is absent -- is curiously absent on anything about what happened to it afterward. they dispose of the fireworks -- the backpack with the fireworks, throw it in the trash, and that's the obstruction of justice. that's the concealing evidence. the affidavit doesn't say anything about what happened to the laptop, which if you think about it, is what the fbi would want most in a case like this. they want to see who tsarnaev has been in contact with. they want to see who he's been e-mailing with. they want that hard drive. what we were told tonight from the lawyer for one of the kazakh students is that laptop was turned over. and he says it was turned over
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voluntarily and that's consistent with this defense from which is that they cooperated with the fbi. now, we don't have confirmation from that from the fbi yet tonight, they haven't said anything about that. but it is noteworthy they don't accuse these kids of trying to get rid of the laptop. secondly, we have the two kazakh students and the other american charged with lying to the fbi. the two kazakh students are not charged with lying to the fbi. they are not accused of misleading them once they are confronted by fbi agents, and that leaps out, because it's lying to the fbi in a terrorism investigation that is in some ways the more serious offense. it carries the heavier penalty, and the kazakh students are not charged with that. so, i think that, if, in fact, they had misled the fbi about that laptop, they would have been charged with lying to the fbi. they weren't. so, bottom line, as i said, if the facts are alleged, it's hard to defend what these kids did. it's clear that they went to that apartment because they
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thought their friend might have been the boston marathon bomber and they were trying to protect him. and given the enormity of the crime, it's impossible to defend that, but was this part of some larger plot? were they acting on direction from tsarnaev? were they trying to conceal a larger conspiracy here? it's hard to square that with the facts as alleged in this complaint. >> absolutely. the point worth underlying here, there's no indication they had any advanced notice of the bombing, that they were in on the plot in any way, other than what they did when they found out about it. michael isikoff live from boston tonight for us, mike, thank you so much. i really appreciate it. >> thank you, rachel. >> thank you. joining us now is philip mudd. he's former deputy director of the cia's counterterrorism center and the fbi's security branch. he's now at the new america foundation. his new book is called "take down." mr. mudd, thank you very much for being with us. appreciate your time tonight. >> sure, sure.
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>> we learned today that fbi agents now have reportedly the laptop in their own hands. it seems to me like if you're looking for trying to connect the -- this crime to a motive or any sort of larger organization out there in the world, the laptop might be critically important. does it seem like an important break to you? >> it's not might be critical, it will be critical. the first question i would have as an intelligence professional is not just what these two guys did, one of whom is dead now. the question is, we cannot shut down this investigation until we determine whether these two spiders were in the middle of a spider web, and believe me, that investigation's going to take time. and a critical piece will be who they talked to, and there the laptop will be essential. >> in terms of the attack itself, as michael just made clear and as the affidavit makes
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clear today from the fbi, there's no accusation that these three people that were arrested today had any part in the planning of the event. does after the fact assistance to their friend, the suspect, indicate anything to you as an intelligence professional about them potentially being either sympathizers, fellow travelers, or somebody might be worth investigating, might be a thread worth pulling towards a larger connection like that? >> it doesn't tell me much. i think the media coverage is extensive because of the nature of the case, obviously, but as a intelligence professional, their lies that got them into such trouble is not that interesting. there's one interesting question, and that is, where there people you were aware of who knew about this beforehand or participated beforehand? is there a spider web that goes beyond these two guys? >> you have talked about the difference between an
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ideological association with a group like al qaeda and an operational association. an operational association would be the sort of thing we think about with them being kind of activated as a cell, them being directed to do something, trained to do something, and then they follow through. an aspirational or inspirational link would just be what they had in their heads when they were acting on their own accord. is that division between those two different kinds of relationships important in terms of whether or not we think about this as a terrorist attack versus a crime? should we care all that much about what these guys were thinking about if nobody told them to do this, if nobody trained them to do this, they worked it out on their own? >> i think we should care, because there's a broader message about how we fight this campaign against terror, and what i would call a campaign against murder. the first people we took down from al qaeda when i was at cia,
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people like the architect of 911, muhammad in 2003, these were ideologues that will go to their graves believing that what they did was for a greater good and that the results of their efforts might not bear fruit for 50 years, 100 years. they had bits of emotion, but they were driven by a deep-seeded ideology. you fast forward 12 years, increasingly, and this case is not unique, you have kids that pretend like they've got an ideology, but, in fact, are emotional driven, they are frustrated, they are angry, and their ideology is just a veneer. if you press this guy for an hour, i guarantee you, he can't really explain the roots of what he did. he's going to tell you it some day, by the way, to close, that what he did was wrong, because his ideology is not as deep as the people who originated this movement 10, 15 years ago. >> does this mean you think of this as more of a senseless crime, more of a random crime, the kind of way we look at mass shootings and things, we don't care why they did it, we care about ways to stop them? >> i mentioned earlier, i see common characteristics to columbine, which people in this country hate to the hear. they want to categorize this as foreign terrorists. two brothers, one of whom radicalized the other. i guarantee they don't know much about the religion. this does not look to me like the al qaeda guys we were taking down 10, 12 years ago.
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the last thing i'd say on this is really important, terrorists want to be called terrorists. there's validation in the background for terrorism that says what you're doing is okay, because you can't frontally fight the united states. they can't, however, defend against an accusation and a charge that they are murderers. they killed innocence, there's no reason for that in any religion. >> philip mudd, fbi's national security branch, thank you so much for being with us tonight. i've been looking forward to talking about this for a long time. all right. we've got new video that nobody has ever seen before from the most incredible thing you have ever seen inside our nation's newest presidential library. it's brand new, never been shown before. it blew my mind when we got it in today, and we have that for you next. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 searching for a bank designed for investors like you? tdd: 1-800-345-2550 schwab bank was built with tdd: 1-800-345-2550 all the value and convenience investors want. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 like no atm fees, worldwide. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 and no nuisance fees.
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i live in western massachusetts, just outside the city of north hampton. among the charms, north hampton, mass, has an elegant public library, called the forbes library. not just a centerpiece of downtown, it turns out it has national significance. forbes library isn't named for a u.s. president. there's never been a president forbes, it's actually named after some rich guy judge that donated the library, but it contains the presidential library and museum of former president calvin coolidge.
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that's tucked away somewhere inside the place i used to check out dvds when i couldn't afford rental fees at block buster. the papers memorabilia is tucked away inside that building. it's a public library in north hampton. calvin coolidge is the last u.s. president not to have a free standing named after him presidential library. since coolidge, all other american presidents we've had, even nixon, they have an edifice built somewhere in their honor. the tourist brochure from the national archives about all the presidential libraries includes this kind of creepy map that seems like the disembodied heads loom over regions of the country. look at poor arizona. they have nothing to do with nixon, but he looms over the state like a death's head. this map showed all the different places you could go in the country as a member of the public to explore the modern
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presidents and the things they have preserved for history about their presidency. as of today, as of may 1, 2013, you can add a new one. brochure is now out of date. down there in dallas, texas, today, the george w. bush presidential library and museum officially opened to the public for the first time, and i think it is important to know, i think it should probably be said every time somebody notes that there is a george w. bush presidential library, i think it should be said every time that this is, rather bluntly, a museum that is designed to make you think that the iraq war was a great idea. seriously. there's a game that you play inside the george w. bush presidential library, and there have been all these sort of vague print press descriptions about this game, that it lets you decide, it sensitively handles the controversies of the bush presidency by letting you decide. no. we finally today got footage of the game being played.
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we got permission from the library, we sent a crew down there with a camera this morning to show, so we could see for ourselves, what happens when you play the game. and it's amazing. the library's open to the public for the first time as of today, and this is what's happening there today, when people from here on out go to the george w. bush presidential library to play the decision points game. this is what happens. watch. >> george w. bush made many tough decisions as president. now you'll get a flavor for what that's like. take a look at the list of scenarios in front of you. first, you will select which one you want to tackle. the majority of the theater chose the threat of saddam hussein. president bush had to make a choice, one, seek another u.n. resolution, two, lead an international coalition to remove saddam, three, accept saddam hussein will remain in power. you are about to get expert advice.
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you'll have to weigh conflicting points of view. okay, we're ready to start. work fast, the clock is ticking. >> with a literal drum beat, actual drum beat to war coming out of the speakers in the theater, you get advice from members of the intelligent community, while you're getting those briefings, you get interrupted by ominous breaking news developments. >> if we act to depose him, other countries could use our actions to wage unjustified wars in the future. >> chemical warheads. >> this is the first really solid evidence. >> after you deal with all the breaking news interruptions about new weapons that weren't disclosed before being discovered and get advice from your fake actor experts, it's finally time to make this decision. they do set up three options to choose from, right?
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you can seek a new u.n. resolution, that makes sense. you can invade, of course, they don't say invade, they say, lead an international coalition, which means invade. if you want to not invade, what's the label for not invading? that choice is labeled take no action. that's the neutral presentation of options here. you can lead, or you can do nothing. if you choose to do nothing, well, president bush's former white house chief of staff then appears on screen and obviously expresses his disappointment in you. >> time's up. it's time to make a decision. you were asked how to address the threat of saddam hussein. you had three options. the people in the theater today decided to take no action and accept that saddam hussein will remain in power.
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>> accept, way to go, wusses. he doesn't stop there, though, with his disapproving, almost disbelieving lack, he then has president bush to come on screen and say the correct answer is you should have invaded. when i first read descriptions of this, i thought they'd meant you'd get historical footage of george w. bush from his presidency, documenting the history how the bush presidency handled the issue at the time, but as you can see, this is president bush now, this is contemporary george w. bush taped recently still making the case today that invading iraq is the right answer. >> my first choice was to use diplomacy rather than putting american troops into harm's way. >> first choice, diplomacy. he goes on to explain the u.n. resolutions passed. then he launches right into this explanation for why invading iraq was the right thing to do,
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because smoking gun was going to be a mushroom cloud, because saddam's weapons of mass destruction, saddam being linked to terrorist groups. seriously. >> the stakes were too high to trust the dictator's word against the weight of evidence and the consensus of the world. saddam posed too big a risk to ignore. he had used weapons of mass destruction in the past, showed every sign of continuing to pursue such weapons, and supported international terrorist organizations. the world was made safer by his removal. with his departure, 25 million iraqis have the chance to live in freedom and build a free society. the new democracy in iraq can be a valuable ally in the heart of the middle east and a beacon of hope to reformers around the world. >> imagine at the bill clinton
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presidential library, an interactive exhibit designed to prove that he did not have actual relations with that woman. imagine an interactive meet tricky dick hologram at the nixon library, showing ways he really isn't a crook. you know, the weight of evidence did not show that we had to invade iraq. there was no consensus of the world that we had to invade iraq. when we invaded iraq, look at this, every country in the map that is shaded blue here, every country here on this map shaded in blue was against us invading iraq. does it seem like there was a world consensus we should invade iraq? the head of the u.n. at the time said he considered that invasion to be illegal. the consensus of the world was george w. bush had to lead an international coalition to invade iraq? are you serious? these little kids, who as of today are going to our nation's newest presidential library to learn the unvarnished history about this presidency are being
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told saddam hussein showed every sign of continuing to pursue weapons of mass destruction. the case to invade iraq was not mistaken. the case to invade iraq was cooked up. it was a hoax perpetrated on the american people, and they are still cooking it up right now, ten years to the day after the mission accomplished speech, as if the last ten years has never happened. this is what kids are being taught that part of our nation's history. i kind of think this is a national scandal. lindsey! i just discovered these new triscuit are baked with brown rice and sweet potato! triscuit has a new snack? no way. way. and the worst part is they're delicious. mmm, you're right. maybe we should give other new things a chance. no way. way. [ male announcer ] we've taken 100% whole grain brown rice and wheat, delicious sweet potato, and savory red bean... and woven them into something unexpected. the new brown rice triscuit line;
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in this 2011 interview with britain's newspaper "the guardian," a man called curveball confirms the lies of his pre-war claims. [ speaking foreign language ] >> there was actually one person from the u.s. government who met with that guy, who met with that professed liar, the guy who said i'd do anything to get rid of saddam. one guy that met with the united states before we invaded iraq, he was sent by the pentagon to meet with that guy, to hear his story to assess whether or not he was telling the truth, and this is what he reported back. quote, i do have a concern with the validity of the information.
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these issues, in my opinion, weren't further inquiry before we use the information as a back bone of one of the major findings for the iraqi weapons program, exclamation point. he's saying, hey, i think this guy could be lying. do not use this information to build a case for war. that guy's information was then turned into part of the basis for secretary of state colin powell's case for war at the united nations. when the avatar of george w. bush pops up on your screen at his new presidential library in dallas, he pops up on your screen to make the case, even today, for invading iraq. when he talks about the weight of evidence about saddam's weapons of mass destruction, this is the kind of weight of evidence that he's talking about. the kind of evidence that came at the time with an exclamation point from our own people
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telling us do not use this, it very well could be made up. but the newest presidential library in america opened to the public today is still selling this stuff, still selling the same stuff, still. joining us now, retired army colonel lawrence wilkerson. colonel wilkerson, it's good to have you tonight, thank you for your time. >> thank you for having me, rachel. >> do you see it as important that the brand new bush library is arguing the weight of the evidence that existed to invade iraq? is it important in the big picture, or does everybody just expect that a presidential library will all be propaganda? >> i don't think so. i think, as you pointed out in your opening, this is a special kind of propaganda, this is carl rove propaganda, but let me point out to you how fast we rehabilitate things in america. you earlier on your show had philip mudd. philip mudd was the one standing behind me in the waldorf hysteria hotel at 2:00 in the morning insisting i put items
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about terrorism back in powell's presentation that i had thrown out calling them garbage. in fact, he was so insistent that he went and ran and told george tenant the next morning on the floor of the u.n. security council, george accosted me about what i'd done. philip mudd is still around, still advising on terrorism and so forth. we rehabilitated people really fast. >> you were involved in the preparation of secretary powell's presentation to the u.n. you have described that kind of pressure before, although i will tell you i did not connect that to philip mudd and talking about a totally different subject tonight, and thank you for connecting those dots. did you know when you were working on that presentation the specific thing about the mobile biological weapons thing that said he was a liar that shouldn't be trusted, did you have access to the information? >> we didn't know the term curveball. all we knew was an iraqi engineer had been working in one of the labs, according to the
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testimony, and had had an explosion in that lab and it had killed several people and that he had given the cia much information, which as you'll note in the presentation, we turned into sketches of the actual rail mounted and truck mounted mobile labs. it was very specific. it was very detailed, and george tenant stood behind it four square. we didn't know anything about curveball, the bnd, the german intelligence equivalent of the cia, or any of these other things, these revelations that have come out since. at the time, george tenant confided none of that in us. >> colonel wilkerson, one of the other things i wanted to ask you about which i did not realize before seeing the tape from the library today, their way of telling this history, you as the sort of fake president can get advice from the cia, from the defense department, from the u.n., from iraqi academics, but there's no option programmed into the game to get advice from
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the state department, even as president bush says first, we tried diplomacy first. i wondered if you feel that actually reflects the decision making in the months leading up to the war? how heavily was the state department consulted? >> it certainly does reflect the state department. it reflects the state department's power in the u.s. government to this day. diplomacy is the least used and the least honed instrument in our arsenal, and the reason for that is longstanding. it starts with dick nixon and others who derided the state department is the home of pink communist dogs. that's the way the state department was looked at by the bush administration also. they tolerated colin powell, because colin powell had poll ratings like mother teresa. they couldn't very well not tolerate colin powell, but the state department, the state department was looked on as a filthy, dirty place where people worked to -- were not competent
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and had no advice to offer that was worth a damn. >> do you feel like when you're looking right now at the debates about syria, about iran, and how we're going to deal with them, do you feel like there is a real concrete effect of propagating a white washed history of what we went through with the iraq war? does that affect the debates we're having now on issues lake iran and syria? >> oh, i think so. i think as yogi berra once said, it's like deja vu all over again. i see us walking down the same road with the same characters singing in the choir, the same people off the same sheet of music with a few changes trying to get us into war with iran. the momentum with respect to syria is not because of the brutal civil war there, it's also because of people like lindsey graham and john mccain from my party and bob menendez would like to get in a war with iran. it's another catastrophe brewing, and if the american people don't wake up and start saying something about it, they'll find themselves in
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another trillion dollar ten year war not unlike iraq today. let me say, iraq is a mess today. it is an absolute mess. you've got the saudis funding the sunnis and a resurgence of the civil war. you have maliki in the back pocket of iran, so what we have, as george bush doesn't tell you in his library, is an ally in iran in iraq now. you have the curds about to establish their own state in the north and iraqis who know anything about their country predicting it will break up in the next four to five years. so, that's what george bush did for iraq. >> the end of the game involves when he says they do the status of iraq now and talk about iraq being an ally, a strong ally on defense and economic and all sorts of security issues for the united states. it's amazing stuff.
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retired army colonel lawrence wilkerson, former chief of state to secretary of state colin powell and the lead up to the iraq war. thank you for making the connection with our earlier guest tonight. that was stunning, and now i have to get you guys in the same room. that will be a great night. thank you, colonel. all right. we'll be right back. 65 last we. the math of retirement is different today. money has to last longer. i don't want to pour over pie charts all day. i want to travel, and i want the income to do it. ishares incomes etfs. low cost and diversified. find out why nine out of ten large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. who sells those remote control helicopters at the mall. buy'em or don't. whatever man. either way, he gets to fly helicopters all day. i'm talking da vinci style flying machines! he's dating kayla, the lotion girl.
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now that we know who the candidates are for the next u.s. senate election in june, which is for the massachusetts senate seat used to be held by john kerry, now we know the candidates, there are two ways to look at this matchup between democratic congressman ed markey and republican gabriel gomez. one way to see it is as the second coming of scott brown, right, it's a political unknown against a veteran democrat in a state that usually goes blue, but, hey, it's a special election, anything can happen. and this guy's a young, fresh face. that's one way to see this race. the second coming of scott brown. the other way to see this race is as the second coming of scott brown, the scott brown who is not a senator anymore because he lost really badly really
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recently. when mitt romney was losing the presidential race in massachusetts by 23 percentage points this past year, his massachusetts-based campaign staff was not just busy losing that race, they were also busy losing scott brown's race, too, an incumbent u.s. senate seat held by a supposedly popular guy lost by eight points. the same campaign people that lost mitt romney the presidency, lost mitt romney his supposed home state by 23 points and lost scott brown an incumbent u.s. senate seat in massachusetts, they are the same people in massachusetts doing the gabriel gomez campaign for the senate seat against ed markey. so, it's the second coming of scott brown either way, right? joining us now is steve kornacki, host of msnbc's weekend morning show "up with steve kornacki," also senior writer at steve, thanks for being here. >> no thanks needed for massachusetts. >> you know this stuff chapter and verse. that's why i wanted to ask you,
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broadly, what do you find the most interesting thing about this race? looking at history here, how does this fit in? >> massachusetts, yes, deeply blue state, 13% of the registered population is republican, but one of the consequences of sort of one party rule is every once or twice every decade, i'd say, the electorate of massachusetts gets riled up, gets cranky about one party rule and takes it out on a democratic candidate and that's sort of how scott brown got in over martha cokely, how mitt romney ran against the gang of three, the insiders on beacon hill and beat shannon o'brien in 2002. but the stat that jumps out at me, i believe ed markey, who's been in the house for 1976, 36-year veteran of the house, i think that would be the longest tenure ever in the house before moving on to the senate. kadyrbayev kadyrbayev dias azamat as mat azamat tazhayakov phillipos robel robel.
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. that's one way to see this race, the second coming of scott brown. the other way to see this is the second coming of scott brown. the scott brown who is not a senator anymore because he lost really badly, really recently. when mitt romney was losing in massachusetts by 23 percentage points this year, his gomez, there's appeal there. he looks like an outsider. he's not been that impressive of when he opens his mouth. on paper, there's a contrast. i think markey will be fine. there's a possibility this gets interesting. >> the common wisdom about what happened when scott brown won in 2010, while martha coakley made people happy, her performance was lackluster. she wasn't good at campaigning. i think gomez was awful in the republican primary debates. he was the only one with enough money to campaign. how do you see a mark up between
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markey and gomez both having to open their mouth? >> markey has more life in a setting like that than martha coakley. you remember the iconic moment for scott brown is when david gergen said this is kennedy's seat. there was a third candidate in the republican primary that finished last with 13% who is a sharp, quick whited, creative guy. if you could put his personality in gomez, you would really have a candidate. in terms of markey being in trouble, it rises on does the entrenched d.c. status, 36 years in congress, that kind of thing, really not living in molden and living in the beltway, does that rile up the voters, in a way. i think it's possible, not likely. i look at coakley and talk about the terrible campaign she ran. it was the height of the battle and why it captured the public's interest. the public looked at her. it doesn't work. the public, if it never reached
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that level of interest because of health care, she would have won. >> part of the reason is tea party groups and conservative groups decided to make scott brown their vehicle at a time they needed one. they found it in him. we'll see if that sort of same dynamic can play out with gabriel gomez. i don't see it but i don't always see it. steve kornacki, you are going great. >> thank you. i will use the word ferrari in a legitimate news context, next. i describe myself as a mother, a writer and a performer.
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this was the lead editorial in the washington post yesterday. virginia's deepening scandal. this was the lead politics story in the same paper. look at the headline. when the headline is about your governor insisting he's able to govern, there's a scandal at hand. bob mcdonnell received undisclosed gifts from a campaign contributor. the gift in question was a chicken dinner. a $15,000 chicken dinner for people at the wedding of the governor's daughter's wedding. it was a gift to his daughter, he didn't need to disclose it. it was signed by the governor. it was his contract. anybody paying the cost of the contract was paying his costs. now the fbi is involved. fbi agents and virginia state police looking into what is
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between the governor and the company, whether the governor took steps to help the company in return for anything of value for him and his family. we are getting more detail out of virginia about those things of value the governor took, things like a family vacation at the lake house of the company's founder. that trip included borrowing the executive's ferrari for the ride home. yes, this guy in a ferrari. bob mcdonnell, a ferrari. when the july vacation ended, they borrowed a ferrari for the three-hour ride back to richmond. it had a retail price of $190,000. the whistle blower is the governor's chef. he turned over the documents last year. this year, he was in trouble with the state attorney's
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general. ken cuccinelli with embezzlement charges against the chef. now the chef's lawyers responded saying our client, the chef, did not steal from the governor's mansion but we would like you to turn over things the governor's family took from the mansion. they provided a list, bottled water, protein powder taken from the mansion for use at their college residences. flats of eggs taken. liquor taking from a kid or her boyfriend for a private party. pots and pans given to the kids by the governor's wife. it's a political scandal mad libs. the attorney general says he wants to rekus himself from it he's in trouble for not saying he owns part of the company himself and now the gifts he, too, got from the company, including a catered thanksgiving dinner. not a chicken in his case, but
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turkey and still a nice vacation. ken cuccinelli is the republican candidate this year. democrats are calling for him to resign because of the scandal. that's happening while the current governor is reduced to this. >> there are two things i would like to people to know. one is that, you know, i had a remarkable opportunity to serve these last 3 1/2 years and there's nothing going on at all at this time that impairs my ability to do a good job and serve the people. i have been blessed to have a lot of friends. >> some of my friends let me drive their ferrari and pay for my daughter's wedding. have you picked the attorney general? no word on him in the ferrari. he's starting disclosing his
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free vacations at the same guy's lake house. virginia republicans keeping it classy and fast. watch this space. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." thanks for being with us. tonight, the boston marathon bombing case has three more defendants. pete williams of nbc news will join me with the latest on the investigation. three additional suspects have been taken into custody. >> the fbi took into custody three additional people. >> they were roommates. >> two of the people are here on student visas. >> ages 19 and 20. >> suspected of removing evidence after the bombing. >> what they are accused of doing is taking things. >> at least two of them expected to be in court. >> they are accused in


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