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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  November 21, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PST

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the fact remains if you want the republican party to nominate you for president, you have to kiss the rings of the televangelist. be healed, republican party, be healed. that does it for us tonight now tonight, we have more video of the new mexico state police reckless shooting at a mother and her five children in their minivan. eight more minutes of that video that has not yet been seen. and today, here in washington, it was a historic day in the united states senate. for the future of democracy. >> on track to go nuclear. >> nuclear. >> in the senate. >> so-called nuclear option. >> using a 51 vote majority. >> change the rules of the senate. >> stopping filibusters of
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presidential nominee. >> utterly absurd. >> republicans are concerned. >> frustration has been concerned. >> congress is broken. >> the democrats are just at their wits end. >> i believe the american people are right. >> the democrats are fed up. >> sound like harry reid is trying to change the subject. >> obstruction. >> obstruction in congress. >> so much obstruction in the senate. >> this gridlock has not served the cause of justice. >> that story line is patently ridiculous ridiculous. >> the red phone is ringing. >> will republicans pick it up? >> absolutely not. >> the camel's back was broken in the united states senate today by this straw. patricia millet nominated to be one of 11 judges on the washington, d.c. court off peels second most important court in
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the country. that court has jurisdiction over some of the most important appeals that find their way down the street to the united states supreme court. it its the place where presidents most often look for their next supreme court nominee. when patricia millet's nomination was considered three weeks ago. she is not qualified. she argued 32 cases before the united states supreme court. most lawyers including most of our highly accomplished lawyers never have the honor of arguing even a single case before the united states supreme court. the republican case against confirming patricia millet was simply that, they didn't feel like it. when the votes were counted. 55 votes. which should have been enough to confirm her. but wasn't. because the senators were voting on breaking a republican fill buster against her nomination.
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a simple majority was not enough. her nomination would have needed 60 votes to prevail at that point. today the senate broke that filibuster with 52 votes after the democrats decided to change the rules of the senate through a method that has been referred to as the nuclear option. and the last few years, and has been contemplated but not used. normally, it take is a 2/3 vote of the senate to change a senate rule. but takes only a majority vote majority vote to overrule a ruling of the senate's pro siding officer which is what they did today. that's this -- that's the senator, they're presiding over, the one in the big chair overlooking the body and ruling with the advice of a professional parliamentian on a variety of parliamentary issues that come before the senate. those things happen in debates. usually the most boring seat in the chamber.
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that's why it is reserved for junior senators forced to sit there and follow the word for word whispered instructions of the parliament. today -- it was the most important seat in the chamber. occupied by one of the senate's elder statesman, patrick leahy who watched from the chair as history was made on the senate floor. first, harry reid brought patricia millet's nomination up for reconsideration. again, a large majority voted for patricia millet. 57 votes in favor of reconsidering her nomination. senator leahy had to rule that was not enough. to reconsider the nomination. that was the moment when harry reid moved to the nuclear option. >> mr. president. >> majority leader. >> i raise a point of order the vote on cloture, for all nominations for supreme court of
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the united states is by majority vote. >> harry read asked for a vote of the senate to overrule the presiding officer's ruling something senators could ask for at any time but almost never do. take is a simple majority to override the presiding officer. 52 senators voted to overrule the off officer. it is harry reid's intention to use the vote as a precedent on presidential nominations except for nominations to the supreme court. which will still be subject to a 60 vote requirement to break a film buster. the democrats did not take this step lightly. they have been considering for years. after it was first threatened by republicans when they were the senate majority. harry reid blamed republicans. >> there has been unbelievable unprecedented obstruction for the first time in the history of
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our republic. republicans have used the filibuster. >> of the 168 fill busters against presidential nominees in the history of the united states senate, half of them were against president obama's nominees. president obama welcomed the change. >> one of the president's constitutional responsibilities is to nominate americans to positions within the executive and judicial branches. over six decades before i took office. only 20 presidential nominees had to overcome filibusters . in five years, 30 treated this way. >> mitch mcconnell could offer nothing more than a threat.
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>> the friends on the other side of the aisle. you will regret this may regret it a lot sooner than you think. >> joining me, the columnist for "the washington post," msnbc analyst, alex wagner host of "msnbc's now with alex wagner." the threat by mitch mcconnell had me intimidated. i was like afraid what happens when the other side has the power. i recently came around. like the final few senators to the realization that of course they have got to do this. because in fact, when the republicans have power, and the republican presidency, the, democrats in the senate would not be attempting to use the filibuster this way to that degree anyway. they don't need that protection in the minority. >> no, absolutely right. i think that the, the abuse went too far. i mean to reject, not one, not two, but three of the president's nominees including patricia miller who is
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incredibly respected across the board. that was a slap in the face. i also think, rejecting mel watt. really for the housing job, really infuriated democrats. you are right. if you go back in history. democrats have opposed republican nominees. robert bourke and beat him on a majority vote. they haven't used the filibuster very much. the figures you cited. 168. in all of our history. almost half under obama. same on judges. go back the last 45 years or so. most of those are against obama. so i think that, democrats decided they had little to use in the long run. obama has three years needs to govern. >> alex wagner, my favorite thing said in the last week or so. chuck grassley, on the senate floor, said if you guys do this, then, you know we are just going to when we get back in power we are going to confirm a scalia. yeah, of course you are because scalia got 98 votes in the senate.
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the democrats voted for scalia, they did not filibuster scalia. >> from the nuclear option we have the scalia option as republican rejoinder to what harry reid did. every piece out side, not only is the supreme court carve out going to go way of the dinosaur. republicans will extend the nuclear option to supreme court nominations to put democrats in a really tough place. if they take back the senate. some people are saying this could be the end of the legislative filibuster. pandora's box has been opened. and the filibuster on nominees was causing havoc, dysfunction, what's to say they could not go further when there is a huge piece of legislation held up because of filibustering. that as a senate junkie, i wonder what your thoughts are about the prospect of losing the
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filibuster entirely. i think i am in complete agreement with you. that it is high time, democrats sort of albert finny network moment we're mad as hell and not going to take it. the country will applaud this decision. what it portents for the future is very much anybody's guess. >> you know, any senate staffer who sat on the senate floor in the minority, while your minority its using the filibuster as i did -- made me reluctant to see this thing go. but what you saw today, as alex points out, is how fragile actually all of the rules of the senate really are. they're not written in granite the way people think they are. this so-called nuclear option was used by robert byrd years ago to refine rules of the senate including the filibuster rule. this has been used before. it is rare. but used before. >> and i think what happened here is -- there were a lot traditionalists, dianne feinstein, last aboard.
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the only defense of the filibuster really was that it was used rarely. it was used either to stop extreme appointments or it was used on something of great moment. and it could be a consensus forcer. and sure, if you get 60 votes for a bill. probably more of a consensual bill. but those days are gone. this has been accused so much on so many issues, the filibuster is bad, is questionable, if you care about minority rule in the first place. but it is absolutely useless if it becomes a matter of routine. there is nothing in the constitution that says, it shall take 60 votes to do business in the senate. the only super majorities are on a couple things like treaties. i think if people just said. this is -- an antique. not being used the way it was supposed to be. >> the filibuster rule used to be 2/33. 66. pulled done to 60. we have seen movement in the past. let's listen to more on what president obama had to say about
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this today. >> over the past three weeks, senate republicans again denied a yes or no vote. thee three americans to fill three vacancies. though they had support of the majority of senators. four of president bush's six nominees were confirmed. four of nominees were obstructed. the republicans were using an extraordinary, and harry reid said unprecedented level of filibuster. >> i think really the core of the story is the degradation of the republican party. crystal has the great analysis on this. this is, the filibuster and the, the sort of promiscuous use of it is very much like an out growth of radicals like ted cruz, getting into the upper chamber, which is supposed to be the delibrative body.
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the rise of the tea party. outside conservative groups. scoring votes. holding republican legislation hostage. and also sort of referendum on mitch mcconnell, harry read and their relationship. keep in mind, the last time harry read walked off the brink of the nuclear option because john mccain came to the rescue. mitch mcconnell is beholden to the primary challenge and radicalized by virtue of his rehe election that, that, bipartisan agreements and working together is basically gone. and that is really -- i mean the onus of that is on republican shoulders. >> i had a sad thought while alex was making that good point. which is, the word deliberative its the very last word you associated with the united states senate. totally against tradition in the senate. >> use to be the aura of the place. e.j. dion, alex wagner, thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you. >> thank you, alex. >> coming up, the republicans have an actual playbook they can carry under their arms telling them how to attack the
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affordable care act. and we have more video from the police dash-cam in new mexico that captured that reckless police shooting. we have an explanation from the mother of five driving that minivan in her own words. joy read will join me to discuss all of the new evidence. the american dream is of a better future, a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪
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katie couric interviewed shellie zimmerman, george zimmerman's estranged wife today who said this about her husband in the process of divorcing. he does seem like a ticking time bomb. up next, how to measure the real success of the affordable care act. [ baby crying ]
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[ mom ] be right there, baby. [ muffled noises ] oops. ow. sorry. [ baby crying ] ♪ [ female announcer ] new pampers. unlike ordinary diapers with 2 layers, pampers have 3 absorbent layers, to stay up to 3 times drier, so babies can sleep soundly all night. ♪ wishing you love, sleep and play. pampers. >> the republicans have a playbook, actual playbook of strategy on obama care. it is entitled, house republican playbook.
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and every republican member of congress has one. "the new york times" report today on the playbook reveals the document, the product of a series of closed door strategy sessions that began in mid october is part of an increasingly organized republican attack on the affordable care act. president obama's signature legislative initiative. over months they plan to keep democrats on their heels through a multilayered sequenced assault. within of the plays republicans have chosen to run is comparing president obama's affordable care act to president george w. bush's failed response to hurricane katrina. a comparison that many in the news media have been eager to make. >> katrina. hurricane katrina. yes, i believe we have all seen the damning photos of the presidential flyover, surveying the human suffering of the health website.
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from a safe distance. >> joining me steve ratner former head of president obama's task force. and a pulitzer prize winning comb columnist for "the new york times". steve, struggling on this program. a bit of a struggle to get past anecdote to get past anecdotes about some one has lost their current insurance thinks they will have to pay more. to the actual statistical picture of what we think is really happening under the affordable care act. and you have been working at that. and one of the headlines you have found for example that you don't, see, every day is about 80%, 80% of the people out there will be unaffected by the affordable care act. >> sure. we all can find examples of people who have been adversely affected. but when you look at this from the top down, you find that 80% as you said of people are unaffected you. find that when you drill down
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further and further, you get down to this 5% of people roughly in the individual marketplace. what this is all about. you find that half of them are going to find better plans, at lower prices. 1 1/4 percent will qualify for subsidies. 1.2, 1.3% of the public. it's not 300 million people. this has gotten blown a bit out of proportion. >> the small percentage what we could refer to as losers in this scenario meaning people who have, come out under the affordable care act. having to part with more money for what they will get than they would have otherwise. >> sure. i think we have a chart on this that you may want to show. but the fact is -- the mistake the president obviously made in retrospect was to say that everybody could keep awful their insurance and imply there would be no losers. put in place something this vast. would benefit 25 million that
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don't have insurance. those will be losers. 1.2%. 1.3% we are talking about. >> you, you debuted on this show, talking about some of the anecdotes that have been put out there -- about people saying they are suffering now under the affordable care act. anecdotes you went about investigating for the l.a. times. didn't hold up that way. it was, it was, you ended up revealing that, these people didn't understand yet what their full options were how they could actually be better off under this. what do you think are the metrics we should be looking at to try to find. to try to get beyond anecdote to the real picture of what was going on. >> as steve said. important to put all this in perspective. 25 million, 30 million people in the united states, we're going to get access to health care. for the first time. certainly afford bulk affordable. access to health care, those who
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will be deprived in 25 states that refused to expand medicaid. that's 5 million if you compare that to the number of people that steve just talked about that may actually have to be paying more for health care, in the individual market than they have been paying in the past, that's, that, that latter figure is swamped by the number of people left unserved because of republican actions in the states. one thing is important. if you want to expand, access to affordable insurance for millions of people. you have to go with expanding medicaid, which after all was originally part of the affordable care act. a crucial part. it it was loosened. it is not required that they expanded it.
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they is something that should be done. when you add 20 million, 30 m don't have insurance will be able to get it fairly, affordably, that is a big number >> we are seeing government earning by anecdote. all you have to do as republican opponent, come up with a set of anecdotes in your district, some of the people, 1.5%, whatever it is that who are going to end up having to pay more for something. and, and, and now you get into this duelling anecdote situation. it seems -- like that could go on forever in this debate. >> no question. here is the real problem. the real problem is that we have shown in massachusetts that this can work. that young people will sign up. that the incentives will work. the problem we have now is that, there has been so much dust thrown up. so many charges hurled against the affordable care act. that i worry that many of the people that we need off to soon
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up in order for the pools to work in order for most people to get the benefits that michael was talking about. will hold back. they went sign up. and i think that is frankly part of the republican strategy. you see it failed. i think the affordable care act could work if given of a chance. all this commotion is not going to make things easier. >> michael. you wrote a become about the struggles of implementing the new deal under fdr. there are similarity here aren't there? >> i think anybody who, who examines the 1930s. and the new deal has to be struck by the parallels between what happened then and what has been happening now. i think the lesson is that any time you up end this status quo as franklin roosevelt did in the 1930s. barack obama has done with affordable care act now. the status quo will strike back. i think that's what we are seeing with the republican playbook. what's remarkable about this republican line. nothing in there that talks
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about what they're going to do, how they're going to improve it. if they roll the clock back. what are they going to do about the tens of millions of americans who've then would be barred once again from the individual insurance market. doesn't make any sense. but, but, really, the fact of the matter is we see this all the times. historians know it. franklin roosevelt. ancestry was questioned. called a socialist. hatch pens over and over again. things don't change. especially when you are challenging the old order. that's what is happening now. >> steve ratner, michael hillsic, thank you for joining us, and helping us with the endless struggle to get the correct, full perspective on what is happening in affordable care act. appreciate your work on this. thank you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, we now have more of that extraordinary dash-cam video of the new mexico police officers trying to apprehend a mother and her five children. we can now show you exactly how that encounter began.
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and turn into a car chase that reached speed over 100 miles an hour. joy read is here to discuss the case. i'm a manager. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart.
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we now have much more video from the new mexico state police dash-cam that you really have to see. that's next. ya know, with new fedex one rate
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>> in the spot light tonight more video of the new mexico state pursuit of a mother and five children in their minivan. the taos news obtained and posted all 18 minutes of the routine traffic stop that became a dangerously reckless shooting by police followed by a high-speed chase hitting speed of 100 miles an hour. the new version of the video shows how it all began and include every minute of the car chase. in the interest of time we edited some of the car chase. >> like i said earlier, you are doing 71 in a 55. you are going to receive a citation. the state of new mexico will offer you two options, first, pay the penalty, misdemeanor, $126 or choose to go to taos magistrate court.
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what do you want to do? >> you didn't ask me anything -- [ indiscernible ] >> no, you have to make a decision right now pay the penalty misdemeanor $126, mail that in, have 30 days to mail it in if you want. or choose to go to taos magistrate court. >> when is court? >> within 30 days within today. >> i understand that. okay. listen -- okay, look. okay. i understand. but you are going to have to think about it. i don't know what i -- >> you can't. you have to pick an option right now, okay? >> according to who? >> according to the state of new mexico, okay. i told you your two options. you do have another option. if you don't want to sign the
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citation. if you do not want to sign the citation, you are stating you want to see a judge right now. >> with five kids -- i can't make a decision. i don't know if i will be here. >> you need to make a decision right now. if you don't make a decision -- i'm not saying you are doing anything wrong. i am already cutting you a break on your license. you know your license is expired. it is expired. i am not writing you a citation. i am trying to help you out, okay? >> no, you are not going to be -- >> or if i could pay the money. >> you don't need the money today. i understand that. which option would you rather choose? what would be better for you to do right now? >> right now i don't feel like i am guilty. i don't know what i am going to be able to do in 30 days.
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>> you can call the court and set up an appointment to go down there within 30 days. >> i may not make it. if i change my mind. >> no. >> look, i can't stay here and argue all day. which option are you going to choose. i will be right back. go ahead and turn the vehicle off for me. i will be right back. okay. look, this traffic stop is going to go one or two ways. you cooperate. >> i am cooperating. >> i am giving you a lawful order to turn the vehicle off. if you don't want to pick. you've don't want to choose. if you don't want to choose. your other option is you are telling me you want to go see a judge on the matter, right this second. i can arrange for that. okay.
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>> she pulled over. i am going to get her out of the vehicle right now. get out of the vehicle. get out of the vehicle right now. right now! get out of the vehicle right now! get out of the vehicle! get out of the vehicle right now! get out of the vehicle, ma'am! get out of the vehicle right now, ma'am! [ children crying ] >> get out of the vehicle! >> go back here and talk about it! close the door right now. close the door! listen to me!
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step out of the vehicle right now! >> she is going to go -- >> tell your son to get back in the vehicle right now. >> get back in the vehicle right now! >> i'm trying to -- >> i am not getting out. >> what are you asking me to sign, sir? i will sign it. i was trying to -- i was just trying to be honest -- >> i need you how to get out of the vehicle right now, get out. let's go! >> show me what you want -- >> look, i am going to give you one more opportunity. i am trying to help you out. >> and sign it -- i am going to be as peaceful as you will be, let's go.
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>> shut the door. come back here for me. look. >> yes. >> you cannot, turn around and just come over here, get out of the road. >> yes. >> you cannot -- i stopped you. i am trying to tell you what to do. >> what happened -- >> i said stop right there. i will be right back. you took off. okay. >> go ahead and turn around. turn around for me, okay. turn around me. there are going to be two other officers. turn around and face your vehicle. >> please! please! >> sir! >> get back! get on the ground! get on the ground! >> get back in the car! >> get on the ground!
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get down right now! get down! >> get them out! >> open the door! open the door! >> get out! get out of the vehicle right now!
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>> get out! get out of the vehicle right now! get out! get out right now! get out! get on the ground right now! right now! get down! get over here! get down! >> you can see the entire tape
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on our website. next in the "rewrite" the mother driving that minivan offers an explanation in her own words. and later, to analyze this new video and what the mother has to say, joy read will join me. en ? ♪ ♪ if i was a flower growing wild and free ♪ ♪ all i'd want is you to be my sweet honeybee ♪ ♪ and if was a tree growing tall and green ♪ ♪ all i'd want is you to shade me and be my leaves ♪ grown in america. picked & packed at the peak of ripeness. the same essential nutrients as fresh. del monte. bursting with life™.
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that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach. >> we have a guest "rewrite" by the submission of a had written op-ed to the "taos news." the news has a policy of not publishing op-eds, on open cases, because her case has received so much national attention. the news published the on-ed unedited. in the piece, the woman who runs a home schooling program, true school academy, tries to rewrite the image of her created by the taos media. here is her unedited op-ed piece. after witnessing uniformed police officers fire shots at a van carrying my five children, i
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have learned that the value of their lives only matters so much as criminal charges against me are concerned. a uniformed officer can shoot three bullets at my van and be considered to be doing his job. but my doing what i can to get my own children away from such a terrifying individual has been turned child abuse and endangerment according to new mexico law. an officer can use a baton to smash a glass window directly into the faces of my four young sons who were riding in the back seat. but some how my attempts protect them from further harm are dismissed because the perpetrator wore an official state uniform and hired to protect and serve. the media has been given authority to defame my character and to erroneously report partial facts pertaining to my case because an officer of the law was said to be doing his job. injustice at its best. for the past 16 years of my life i have devoted my every day to
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parenting and educating my wonderful children. any one who knows me will tell you this. i graduated my daughter from high school at age of 15 as her home educator. i have educated all five of my children, from the duration of their educational journey. i have shaped my entire life around their well-being. serving and protecting them is something that i do naturally without pay. being a peace officer is who and what i have been, out of my obligation and responsibility as a parent. law enforcement, i do that too, with our unit every day. as a single, african-american mother of five in this country, things are tough enough. i should not have to endure harassment at the hands of some one who has been hired to protect the citizens of this land over an alleged speeding offense. no one should. as a tourist who came to taos new mexico with intention of supporting the wonderful sites and offerings of this city i should not sit in jail now for continuing to do the best by my children as their mother. there are hundreds of people
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across the world who can attest off to the great commitment i have to the health, well being and safety of my children. i am considered a mothering mentor to many, and a model parent to most. the realization did not come, this realization did not come at the hand of my incarceration, this is the reality of my life. so much so that even in the taos adult detention center the women view me as encouraging, mother, sister figure who loves and cares about even those who so sigh team unfairly casts aside. i write none to pat myself on the back but to paint a true, accurate picture of who i am, not what a system that knows nothing abut me portrays me how to be. ask superintendent of memphis city schools who i am, or inquire about my person from the many memphis city police chaplains that i have worked alongside in various capacities, you can always speak with the families of the home school groups that i have run, as well as the many community service agencies.
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any number of individuals will tell you that i am most, loving, caring, peaceful person that helps others daily and my own children at the top of the list. i hope some one read this editorial and comes to know more about the real me and not the one misportrayed and demonized by the taos media. i hope some one takes the time to think how this ordeal is affecting myself and most importantly my children. they do not deserve this. neither do i. i hope the city of taos chooses to be fair in judgment of this situation and that a light be shed on the true injustices of the horrifying nightmare. finally a word of peace to the officers and other officials involved. it is my prayer that your families never be made to endure that which mine has as a result of this terrible situation. may you never be put in a position to protect your children from your own kind. oriana farrel. joy read will join me next to discuss what we have just learned.
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try post shredded wheat. i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. >> there will be two other officers here in a second. turn around, face your vehicle. ma'am, listen to me. >> no! no no!
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>> joining me now is msnbc's joy reid. i have so many question as but this. i don't want my questions to get in the way of the reaction to the op-ed piece that oriana wrote or new material in the video or any of this. what we cover. your reaction? >> lawrence, i watched all of the way straight through, the 18-minute video. as a mother. chilling. very hard to watch. my heart was racing, what you replayed there. the first 12 minutes. up until the officer tells the woman to turn around and she walks away.
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this mother, was absolutely 100% dead wrong. she endangered herself. she endangered her children. there is something in law enforcement, called use of force matrix. you heard the officer referring to parts during the encounter. that means this. if an officer gives you've a lawful order. he gave her a lawful order. and you say no. you have already allowed that officer to escalate this use of force to physical restraint. if the officer then tries to restrain you, he told her, turn around. she walked away. he grabbed her. she pulled away. you have allowed the officer to escalate the use of force to violent force. basically restrain you by violent force. if you grab anything, rock, wallet, pen, lighter anything that could hurt the officer you have opened the door to the officer using deadly force. that use of force matrix is something that every single person should understand particularly, every black person, because of -- there is so much fear and trepidation at the police. the use of force matrix is real and the law. difficult to convict police
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officers in shootings. that said at the point you are showing right now. when that officer started bashing in the door of that minivan with his two fellow officers present, this went from being an extremely reckless mom, who could have gotten her son shot, because my kids would have reacted the same way if they saw some body they thought was hurting me. jumped out of the car. the officer could have shot her son. you don't know what could have happened. she endangered her kids. when the officer starts bashing in the window of the car, he want from being a professional law enforcement officer dealing with a frustrating situation to an angry man with a gun. pointing the gun. may have been a taser gun. to the kid, a gun-gun. pointing it at a child. you know was a child. hearing those screaming kids, little kids, in that car, and then screaming, curse words and banging in that door, terrifying those kids, he is the one who then escalated that situation. after that, she is wrong again.
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racing, going into the oncoming lane. the car could have flipped over. when officers fired at the car as you talked about on the show. they crossed the line. possibly of legality. you cannot do that. car could have flipped over. could have exploded. could have killed all the occupants of the car. at the end they didn't recognize they were dealing with four victims in the car. little kids who had been through a traumatic situation now lying face down on the ground. the officer was unprofessional. all three have got to answer for this. when the first officer says there might have been a gun in the car. then corrected by officer, 774 in the transcript. be advised the suspect did not look to have a firearm inside the vehicle. big problem. you can't use force against some one that isn't attempting to use force against an officer. >> joy, clear violation of that department's own deadly force rule as we have shown on the
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program already. they're not allowed to shoot at moving vehicles. except in most extraordinarily threatening circumstances. you know, she, oriana says in her op-ed, ask superintendent of memphis city schools who i am. we tried to do that. we reached the superintendent of shelby county schools right next door. the superintendent told us that he served on a board with her. of the youth united with senior citizens group. and she was a helpful, responsible member of the board. he doesn't know her very well. but, joy, there is a moment there where i see her make what is the fateful decision. when the officer tells her she is behind the car. turn around. face your car. that's when she believes. i think what we are seeing. she believes she is going to get handcuffed. arrested. take any way from her children. with this mother. one thing she cannot allow is being taken away from her
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children. >> she panicked. earlier on in the encounter. she was refusing to get out of the car. kids were terrified. screaming. crying. didn't want to get out of the car. leave them there afraid with not knowing what was going on. when she realized. i am about to get arrested. she panicked. her op-ed points to the good work, she loves her children. no doubt about it. obviously a mother who was terrified. look, i got to tell you, i have been black a long time. a lot of african-americans are afraid of police officers. the situation is scary. you have little kids in the car. but i think that her mistakes, and her errors, don't excuse the officers callus disregard for the ages of the kids in the back of that car. i cannot believe that they would smash in the windows, screaming, curses. shoot at the car. the whole thing is heartbreaking.
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>> yeah, the officer forgot he wasn't just dealing with the mother he had a responsibility to serve and protect the five children. joy read. thank you very much for joining us. attack. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in new york. let me start with the daring attack. the democratic breakout that could change the course of this political war. nothing is more daring or more effective than the attack from a defensive position. it's how henry v. go for the offensive and make take on the attack. today struck with all the pent up fury. b


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