tv NOW With Alex Wagner MSNBC December 2, 2013 9:00am-10:01am PST
goals albeit late of being able to satisfy 50,000 simultaneous users. >> the bottom line, healthcare.gov on december 1st is night and day from where it was on october 1st. >> a palpable sense of relief after weeks of worry the mood in the war room where the repair work is ongoing was good and upbeat. technicians ended saturday night with a group high five, which is the way i end most saturday nights. good news in the way of enrollment numbers. bloomberg 100,000 people signed up for health insurance through the exchange a four fold increase from october. if the white house thought any of this would elicit anything but criticisms from the other side of the aisle, that's another program. >> i don't know how you fix it. i don't know how you fix a program in this manner with one side of the aisle and taking the
shortcuts we're taking to put it in place. >> you never get a second dhoons make a first impression. the first impression here was terrible. i think unfolding disaster for the president. >> as senator ted kennedy once said the work begins anew. indeed while the front door is fixed, the back where information transmitted to insurers remains in an alarming state of disrepair. insurers say they are getting duplicate files. more worrisome sometimes not receiving information on every enrollment taking place. what is indisputable according it is improving fast. or to put it differently, healthcare.gov will be fixed. for most people it is fixed or will fixed soon. then there's a question for republicans, what next.
as it stands the current gop isn't exactly wing hearts and minds. >> the election is like which party will commit suicide last. the republicans messed up with the government shutdown, now the obama website. the concern next we'll see. >> joining me political writer, "daily beast" columnist sally cohn and contributor editor wallace walls. from washington, no longer in auburn gear although i expect his team spirit is soaring former white house secretary and founding partner of the insight agency robert gibbs. robert, i'll start with you. i will use football metaphors for fans at home and fans on set. is the white house -- is healthcare.gov are we seeing end to end a la auburn last night? is this a major play we're seeing on december 1st or are we in the middle of the field right now? >> i think the obama administration should be glad it appears to be first and ten
again. it's no longer third and 35. we're a long way from 109 yard field goal return. look, i think you summed it up quite well. the users experience on the front end is greatly enhanced for most people that are using it. i never get tired of watching that clip by the way. >> we're going to keep playing the clip for you. >> god bless you. the front end is in a much better state. there's two things that continue to be worrisome for the administration. one is identification verification, which is obviously crucially important in terms of subsidies you qualify for. equally important is the back end form, 834 form, which is transmitted to the insurance company which actually is where enrollment happens. if for some reason the insurance company isn't get all the data
it needs from that form, a person isn't enrolled. look, the good news is the website is much improved. the test, obviously, will come in the next couple of weeks as people who are looking to ensure that they are insured, go and shop for an insurance poll sichlt we will know more about this as the days and the weeks go by into december. >> i want to ask you, i want to throw a handful of confetti because 50,000 users can use the site simultaneously. what joe scarborough said there's a wall with no saloon behind it. to the back end, it sounds as if you read "the new york times" blow by blow, there's a political decision here. we're going to make sure the front end is looking good for
consumers so from the outside it looks like it's functioning. that back end is pretty critical. from your assessment here, was this an effort at damage control? >> i'd say first of all, joe is a little grumpy because of the activities of the weekend. lets put that aside. i think both of these are important. if users can't get into the front end of the system, create an account and shop for a policy, then the back end won't matter. i think probably the most disconcerting thing, if you read the report from over the weekend, they fixed 400 of 600 fixes on their punch list. two-thirds of the problems have been fixed. many of the problems that can't be fully fixed or identified until the process runs its course. this will continue to have to be improved as we go along. obviously like i said, it's first and ten.
we've moved the chains. that doesn't mean we're any where close to scoring on this. that back end has to be fully functioning. the information has to transmit perfectly to the insurance company so when somebody believes they are enrolling themselves, when they go into the doctor's office in january, that's the case. >> i'm going to open up to our panel. brian, if we're going to continue with the football metaphor. the good news, the audience is in the stadium. the bloomberg piece, people signing up for this thing, 300,000 people visited the site yesterday. we had 100,000 federal enrahm rollments in november. november was still the work in progress, men at work sign. the fact people are knocking on it is a very, very good sign for the potential in the next couple months. it is aggressive. the enrollment target 7 million
americans march 31st. >> does seem like first two months de facto outage. demand didn't disappear, people didn't give up on the site. >> much like every effort otherwise. >> if they can make sure the enrollment process is completable, make up for lost time, the october and november months basically lost and as get closer to 7 million enrollment. i don't think they care if insurers have a hard time sorting this out after january and making sure people's papers are in order, they want people to get through the process and make paymentv a receipt. we're going to see those numbers in the middle of december, january and expect a pretty big spike. >> you know what's interesting, sally, how the republican message around this has been tailored -- as the affordable care act has become law and is a real thing in people's lives, brian made this point. when there are people who have
signed up on the aca website and have actual health insurance the zeal for repeal will be greatly diminished because it will be taking away health care from people who now have it. >> you would think that, but that would make you living in a reality-based reality, and that's not -- look, here is the thing. the republicans had a gift for the last month or so, because they could take -- first of all, they were in the political dumpster after the shutdown. they were also in the doldrums, they had no other thing to offer. repeal and then what. all these things in the affordable care act people liked, kids staying on their parents plans loeg longer, getting rid of bars for pre-existing conditions, they only make sense if you have an individual mandate. republicans know that's why they invented the individual mandate. now all of a sudden they have this gift. they can attack the website and impugn the whole policy because the website didn't work. suddenly they can't do that no
more. they are going to have to go back to critiquing the essence of the policy which american people like and republicans have no alternative for. >> so what happens then? what happens in january, ben? >> well, you know, who knows. we've heard in the "new york times" story this morning that 30 to 40% of the site, the back end functions, ways insurers get reimbursed has not been built yet. there's this much ambiguity this late date six months after. looking at a pretty bad situation, a crisis looming, is really, really embarrassing for the president. you look at the political numbers, they don't look great. taken a big hit over the last few weeks. we're in this situation we're kind of talking ourselves into. maybe in january they come around. by 2017 everything is going to be okay. >> by 2050 this thing is really
going to be -- robert, i want to ask you about a point ben is making. i have to ask you as communications guru what you make of this quote from i believe it was jeffrey zients. while more work to be done the team is operating with private sector velocity and effectiveness, a statement our own chuck todd is an indictment of the whole idea of government as a solution. was that a well worded statement in your mind? >> sometimes the truth is the best way to go at it. this has been a completely unnecessary embarrassment. whether or not we look back in three months, six months or two years back to this time period of october, november, and the website. whether that means anything in some period of time we won't know until we get there. we won't really know how to fully evaluate this until we're at the end of this enrollment period. this has been a totally
unnecessary embarrassment. it's been an embarrassment for activist government. "the new york times" piece this weekend about how we got here and what had to happen to fix it was a very startling piece. some people said this, maybe the biggest thing we learned over the weekend was just how messed up this was and how badly it was messed up for so long. look, we are -- again, i think they are sort of in a safe place for now. we'll know much more about whether the technological problems scare people off temporarily or, as i presume will be the case, young people are going to come back when the deadline is approaching and probably always were. we'll know more in two or three months. >> robert, i think the big picture question is does the white house learn anything or do anything tangible in response.
ron fournier calling in his own way the sensational title of his team is "president obama needs to fires himself. not literally, of course but practically he needs to shake up his team. you have said wns these problems are fixed there will be staffing changes. do you still think that's true and do you think it's as dramatic as fournier suggests. >> i don't think it should be as dramatic as the president firing himself. >> that would be unconstitutional. >> it will be inexplicable if somebody involved in the creation of the website doesn't get fired or a group of people don't get fired. again, if you look at that "new york times" story from this weekend, when folks at hhs are looking at the white house and dennis mcdonaccdonough's white
calendar and laughing, micro managing, lets be clear, one thing the white house didn't do on this, they didn't micro manage beaurocracy enough. if we get through the end of the enrollment period -- i said this first on your show, alex. we should get through the fixing of this before we clean house. i think it will be inexplicable if we get sometime in the spring and somebody at hhs or cms or both haven't been fired. there aren't good excuses for not firing people. private sector velocity should also include the velocity of moving somebody's framed pictures out of their office and into a new job. >> that, my friend, is going to get picked up on the internet. former white house press secretary robert gibbs, congratulations on the auburn win, my friend. >> war eagle. >> after the break, without medicaid expansion certain states are shuttering hospitals
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call it a tale of two americas. across the country in the nation's capital and in the 25 states that have accepted medicaid expansion under the affordable care act, hundreds of thousands of low in come americans are enrolling in health coverage while millions are eligible. the 25 that are refusing the expansion and not moving forward to do so tell us a different story. in those states nearly 5 million low in come americans who were
supposed to qualify for coverage under the law will now be left without insurance. in some cases they will be left without adequate access to hospitals. at least five hospitals serving low in co-patients closing this year scaling back services mostly in states where medicaid was not expanded. the the reason, millions more americans would qualify for medicaid and therefore the hospitals would have to foot less of the tab for the uninsured. last summer when the supreme court ruled medicaid expansion to be optional, all that changed. now, instead of finally being able to access health care, poor americans whose governors and state houses are in many cases worse off than they were before. patients in areas with shuttered hospitals could be forced to travel as far as 40 miles to see a doctor. in georgia home to three of the five hospitals that closed this year, this mileage is proven to
be nearly fatal. bloomberg reports on the story of pam renshaw who suffered second and third degree burns over half her body because of a car crash because her local hospital closed due to funding cuts, had to travel two hours to be flown to a hospital and receive emergency care. hers is not the only story of human suffering as a result of ideological purity. as plane as 15 hospitals in georgia will be shut in months. in tennessee nearly half of the state's hospitals may face major cuts or closure if the state decides to stand firm in its resistance to medicaid expansion and place the burden instead on the poores and sickest among us. president and ceo of essential hospitals dr. bruce siegel. doctor, thank you for joining us. this is a hugely underdiscussed element of aca, what's happening to hospitals. hospitals are forced to care for people and give them emergency
care. with these funding cuts, that's becoming ever more difficult. give us, if you will, a picture of what it's been like for hospitals in states where there's been no medicaid expansion. >> it's really a nightmare scenario. the supreme court kind of blew a hole in the law. we have a situation where half the states aren't expanding medicaid. people still depending on hospital emergency room for care at the same time payments to essential hospitals are cut back, everyone assumed coverage would pick up the slack but it's not happening. >> i want to open this to our folks in new york, ben, what is happening in these largely red states with either republican held state houses or governorships is in many ways the worst part. the worse off of society given less, more is taken from them to the hospital. what is interesting is that you
now have situations where one state has accepted the medicaid expansion and a neighboring state has not. if we're talking about practical, real life interaction with the aca, this is it. discuss this one specific story, kentucky versus indiana. nathan, 34, lives in louisville. his in come of less than $15,000 a year qualifies him for expanded medicaid. the cafe where he works has nine employees and they live in indiana. so even though they make the same or less money, they are not eligible for the same coverage. that is an insane situation. because there's no deadline for governors to opt in, my hope is that public pressure mounts to the point these governors have to accept reality and expand coverage. >> looks this is the cost of politics. this is where you see everything that happened over the last 10 years meeting the road. half a decrease aid ago we
talked about red and blue state america as political concepts, increasing realities, you see this very much in the health care debate, they are different places and resources available to people. that is insane. one of the problems with this sort of -- if we're watching full adaptation to 2017 as david plouffe says, aca rolling out ever more slowly, you're going to have governors and state legislatures looking at a political environment and say lets see who the president is. if we have a conservative take, adopt have to fix the gaps, lets see what the environment look likes in two years. it's really grim but this is where the see the cost of everything we've been talking about politically. >> to that point, sally, that ben makes about red state america versus blue state america tim eagan has a piece and says the south is dooming itself. we could see a mason dixon liven of health care, on one side
insured north, a place where health care is affordable and available to people. on the other side uninsured south. health care to the poor would amount to treating charity cases in hospital emergency rooms. >> he's exactly right. what people don't realize is not being able to get timely emergency room treatment because these hospitals are shutting down means people have worse and worse health outcomes down the road. that has consequences for the economy, people's ability. >> the safety net. >> the whole thing starts to crumble. i hear about red states blue states but a deeper hypocrisy. republicans have said they like devolution. they said we're going to cut subsidies, direct subsidies for state hospitals under medicaid. instead we're going to create the power of the states to opt in instead of direct subsidies people are going to get
individual coverage. there's going to be more individual responsibility brought to bear. by the way, the federal government is going to cover 100% of the medicaid expansion for two years and 90% thereafter. there is literally no reason for states to opt out. they are doing so purely i had logically. in the case of georgia the government is saying the government was wrong to cut subsidies in the first place, begging for subsidies back rather than taking responsibility. >> dr. siegel, i want to ask you, in terms of this dynamic, you are familiar with many hospitals across the country. are they speaking up? are they speaking to elected representatives in state houses and governors and say the position you've put us in is untenable. >> they are speaking loud and clear. when they look at the future where they have millions more people who don't have coverage and see billions of dollars in funding that went to the state going away under the aca, the situation is simply not tenable for them. lets be clear about one thing. this is not only about poor
people in these communities. the essential hospitals are going to be impacted by this are places who provide trauma service, the burn units, training the next generation of nurses and doctors. these are incredible community wide services jeopardized. frankly a lot of leaders have a choice, let them go away through hospital downsize closure or basically raise taxes locally and support these needed services. we don't have to see this happen. but right now the gridlock in washington is stopping us from getting to a solution that allows these essential services to be provided to everyone because everyone in the community depends upon it. >> brian, that's a really important point. not just poor americans but americans who need health coverage. living in new york city, living in other places across the country, nobody likes to see local hospitals shuttered. it's actually a very emotional
thing for a community for a hospital to close its doors. i think that has a profound impact, actually, in terms of this ideological stance that republican governors have taken. >> this is going to sound bloodless to me but a what we're setting up is an expert where the politics of supporting obama care and the ideological tension on the right, whether you should tax wealthy people to finance, subsidize poor people is going to come into conflict with constituent issues. should we be shuttering that don't help, trauma victims and so on. i can't imagine that the firewall is set at 24 states that refuse expansion. some of them are going to crumble. you definitely could see this kind of system that extends in perpetuity where a lot of places just kind of leave these 5 million people and others in the lurch. >> doctor, one last one before we go. when a hospital loses funding, cut back services, shut their doors, do people who go to the hospital, is the community aware of the dynamics here, why this
is happening? are hospitals doing their part to help to educate people as far as what's going on with this? >> they are. they are working hard to let people know what the dynamic is. part of the debate has to be not just about hospitals and governors but the business communities in these places saying if we're going to be competitive, if we're doing to have a strong educated workforce that can go to work in the morning and be health y, we have to make sure we support essential hospitals in every way we can. that business community has got to step up to the plate in these states. >> doctor, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. coming up new details in yesterday's early morning train wreck that left four dead. we'll have an update after the break. if i can impart one lesson to a
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time to compare plans and costs. you don't have to make changes. but it never hurts to see if you can find better coverage, save money, or both. and check out the preventive benefits you get after the health care law. open enrollment ends december 7th. so now's the time. visit medicare.gov or call 1-800-medicare national transportation safety board said today or tomorrow it will interview a conductor and engineer aboard the training that derailed in new york early sunday. the crash left four people dead and more than 60 hurt, some with
critical broken bones. they are looking into whether the derailment was caused by track problems, equipment or operator error. the two black box retrieved could provide answers and are currently analyzed by ntsb in washington. what can we expect to learn? what's the latest on the investigation and what kind of information might we see coming out in the next day or two? >> reporter: you know, alex, those black boxes are critical to the investigation and data. a couple of things, how fast was the train going? they have the black box from the front and rear cars. they should be able to tell how fast they were going. also whether or not the brakes were applied or tried to apply. that's a key. this is a curve where you're supposed to slow from 70 miles per hour to 30 miles per hour.
as you said ntsb hoping to talk to conductor and engineer. cord to reports they have spoken with investigators and the train operator told them he tried to apply the brakes and they didn't work and brake dumping, applying all at once, a last ditch effort to slow down or slow the train. they have done blood alcohol, truck tres. that's standard procedure. no indication that's suspected. they have done that in the standard investigation a lot to come out. we expect to hear from the ntsb later today, alex. >> nbc's kristen dahlgren, thanks for the update. coming up, what's if john boehner steps down as speaker of the house. what happens if he does not? we'll talk next what happens to the gop after obama care. that's next. there are seniors who have left hundreds of dollars of savings on the table by not choosing the right medicare d plan.
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the rebranding continues after a year that saw a disastrous government shutdown, plunging approval ratings and almost no legislation out of congress, the grand ole party putting on a happy face. speaking to the richmond times dispatch house majority leader eric cantor announced gop needs to be able to answer a basic question, how do we address the basic questions people have? is that familiar? he said almost the same thing before his party shut down the government. >> over the next two years, our house majority will pursue an agenda that is based on a shared vision of creating the conditions of health, happiness and prosperity for more americans and their families. >> through government shutdowns. anyway, cantor may not be the only one trying to chart a new
path through the republican party. running down the list of the five in the gop who could succeed john boehner the hill posits association with boehner could open the door to a challenge of conservative leadership running on anti-establishment message. the potential challengers, financial services committee chair judd hensarling, committee chair paul ryan and grandmaster of take no prisons caucus also known as republican study committee chairman scalise. all voted against this. address the fundamental problems of those that loathe american government and don't want a solvent economy. sally, what is the deal with the republican party come 2014 and beyond? first lets start with the boehner question. >> okey-dokey. >> want to know your thoughts on
where will the party go. do you think there's some parts of the gop who thinks we need someone in boehner's role, a peacemaker between factions. >> there's a part of the gop that sinks. as an american i would like to see a functioning two parties in the country. as a democrat, good, republicans, you're doing our work. first of all, you need to be seen as the growing up party. that means for republicans to go somewhere they have to have been somewhere. they have said don't judge us on what we've done, judge us on what we've tried to repeal. the dozens of votes to repeal obama care, jobs bills, things are languishing, not only majority of americans want, majority of voters want. look, if they are going to refashion themselves, they need a new leader latino lesbian under 25.
but there aren't any republican party and that's the problem. >> you've got to ask yourself, too, i'm trying to think of a sports metaphor, like having a case of the chickenpox that mask your sprained ankle. the affordable care act provided the smoke screen so they don't have to deal with the instructial problems within the party. republicans made zero progress reaching out to any demographic groups, women, young people, latino, autopsy, the famous rans priebus document they have to stay alive for that great tea party rally in the sky. >> you're seeing a conflict between the fact the party wants durable majorities and beholden to shrinking monochromatic base. i think it would be a real conservative to replace boehner at some point, could wake up to the fact not about insufficient conservatism.
only thing they agree is taxes should be lower. if they try to do anything else they run into a freak out problem with the base. they need to try to be willing to let some of those voters go elsewhere or stay home or reach out to new people. until they do that -- >> they need to leech themselves. the republican party has failed in terms of creating a governing platform, the tea party has won in that the goalposts moved far to the right, broud bipartisan, budget talks, extending unemployment benefits is a democratic ask. i wonder what you think -- bernie sanders said to the "washington post," i don't wake up every morning saying oh, my goodness, i don't wake up every morning and say i want to be president. but if nobody is going to do it, i'll do it. there's talk about elizabeth warren, bill dallas i don't, if not more resurgent, ascend ant in the last years.
>> one of the things that happens through the end of press tension administration politics gets broader and more imaginative and more hinged to the personalities that run it. back to sally's point for a second. there is a crazy like a fox argument on behalf of the republicans. that is as depraved and nilistic as the gop caucus has come to seem, how great does it look for chris christie or scott walker to come in in 2016 and say we've made a mess, my party has made a mess, but now we're going to change, modernize. >> do you feel like they can say that? they are scared of rilg up the pitted snakes that is the base of the party. >> we said in 2004, 2008 that this party, 2012, this party had moved so far it could not accommodate anyone but a raging right winger, john mccain, mitt
romney, is chris christie really so far out of that norm and that tradition? >> he's more far right than either of them. there's a fundamental disconnect. this isn't the end of obama's term and mud ling of democratic left, what's actually happening is there's this gulf that's been created where the far right, tea party so successful they have moved their party so far to the right they have actually moved them out of the republican mainstream let alone american mainstream. that creates an opening. midsoutherners palpably -- minimum wage no longer livable. >> a whole gulf in attendance to wall street, all these things that neither party that creates this opening and hope democrats will walk into it. >> fundamental problems people have. somehow i think the left is better poised to answer them. who knows. eric can't or can try to pull a
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chaos. >> everybody's street premiers today on the west coast. joining us from the west coast in los angeles is the director of that film rodas my good friend cheryl dunn. it's great to see you. i wish you were in new york with me. >> me rodas too. hi me, too. >> i want to ask you a question i don't know the answer to and i should. what drew you to the medium of photography, street photography. why some go to the street, other studios, some want to think it's a movie, other photographers walk into the world and say, show me. i wanted to get you -- why do you do it? >> it's an incredible adrenaline rush. it's hard to do well.
you can't will yourself to be good at it. you have to put in the time. the chance of finding something magical and amazing is -- it's like treasure hunting, like martha cooper puts it, treasure hunting. >> go ahead. in terms of the treasure hunting piece, one of the things about the film, it's as much about these photographers as it is a story of new york city. as someone who lives here, the thing that struck me was, the city doesn't seem as interesting as it used to, in terms of characters and ways of living. as new york city has gotten richer, more homogeneous, street life less. do you feel someone who shoots in 2013, do you reminisce and wish for the days of old? >> i do but i don't -- i think it's still there.
i think there was interesting feedback from my friends that came to my new york screening. they were so thankful the film i shot this 16 millimeter i shot throughout the interviews is only a couple -- within the last year or two or three. they were really happy that new york was looking like that to me and that i presented it that way. i think it's all there. you just have to look harder. it's harder to see but truly there. >> i'm going to open this up to our panel in new york. ben, you were born in the bronx, is that right? >> i was. >> i want to talk a little how the city changed, we're on the cusp of a new mayor. there's talk about is bill glassia going to make it into that new york. if you look at the numbers. in new york city the poorest 20% of the city earn an average of $8,993 a year, the richest 5% earned an average of $436,931.
it is dramatic. when bill de blasio talked about a tale of two cities there's real economic data to back that up. >> when you're talking about 20% of people of 8 million an enormous number of people making $9,000 a year. that's crazy. one of the things that's always been amazing about new york and sounds like this documentary gets at it is interplay of what's settled. when we look back with nostalgia on what soho looked like in the 1980s. you see that in more fringe parts of the city. that interplay is still there. >> there's also the questions of how much one person, a mayor, can change a city. we either ascribe too much to a mayor or pin our hopes too much or his or her lapel. in the "new york times" magazine actually talked about bill de blasio and whether or not we had
unrealistic expectations in terms of his ability to narrow the gap and create a more equitable society in new york city. at the end of the day new york city gets a cut of financial transactions and it behooves new york city to have very wealthy wall streeters in the city. >> all my wealthy wall street friends in a panic, redistribution socialist was going to become mayor and all of a sudden dramatically change the makeup of new york city's economy was misplaced. there's, a, only so much a mayor can do and, b, only so much he will do. he has strong relationships with developers and wall street, as you should. you should be a mayor for everyone, not just the 1%. where this film is very powerful is what you see. artists and what street photographers have been able to see is often what new yorkers weren't able to see, what often society doesn't see, those living at the margins. same thing, we want a mayor who sees those parts of new york that are struggling, not just the parts doing well.
>> cheryl, i would go back to you on that. so much of street photography is showing people the unseen, which is poor people, people living on the fringes. this was a multi-year project. that work is very much reflected in the film. what did you sort of learn along the way? i'm sure you learned a lot of lessons in terps of the unseen and body of work you amass during this. what was your biggest takeaway? >> well, just to speak to what you were just saying, i think what new york needs is cultural preservation. we have architectural preservation somewhat. when it gets turned into a clothes store, the reason people go to lower manhattan and downtown is because artists live there, lived there and made it cool. then people with money come in and -- >> make it something else. >> what happened? >> and make it something else. >> and make it something else, unaffordable for artists, then you lose the evident culture, unfortunately.
to answer your last question, i mean, things are fast and fleeting. nobody thought the world trade center would fall down, nobody thought rockaways would get wiped away. these documents are crucial to our visual history. >> it is a great piece of work. the movie is "everybody's street" premiers on the west coast. available for purchase. my friend, congratulations. >> on december 6th. thanks, alex. >> thank you, sally, ben, for tomorrow see you then, "andrea mitchell reports" coming up next. i'm meteorologist bill karins with monday december 4 forecast. we are looking at a nice mild start to the month. we have a big storm brewing in the pacific northwest and
northern rockies. but for the rest of us east of the rockies especially a mild day. there's lots of clouds out there. some fog in central plains. otherwise all your travels look dry and safe. enjoy. hi honey, did you get the toaster cozy? yep. got all the cozies. [ grandma ] with new fedex one rate, i could fill a box and ship it for one flat rate. so i knit until it was full. you'd be crazy not to. is that nana? [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex.
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