tv News Nation MSNBC December 6, 2013 11:00am-12:01pm PST
ten days. >> mandela will be laid to rest with a state funeral sunday, december 10th. leading up to the service, zuma declared this sunday, december 8th, a national day of prayer and reflection. there will be a massive public memorial at the soccer stadium in johannesburg that hosted the world cup. he'll lie in state for three days at pretoria city hall. flags are at half staff in the capitol and white house as well, which confirmed this morning that president obama and first lady michelle obama will participate in memorial events. the guest list for his funeral will likely include every living u.s. president able to travel along with dignitaries from around the world and celebrities across the globe today,
countless newspapers paying tribute. as president obama says now belongs to the ages. >> we have lost one of the most influential, courageous, and profoundly good human beings that any of us will share time with on this earth. >> and this morning, on the "today" show, former secretary of state colin powell who attended mandela's inauguration, shared what he meant to him. >> a man who never forget his principles, prepared to go to prison as long as it took in defense of his principles and as he said on a number of occasions, i'm ready to give my life forewhat i believe in. and he triumphed. >> world leaders have been paying tribute including pope francis, who in a telegram writes, since his death was announced there's been celebration and vigils and services in mandela's honor and hundreds filled the streets.
the crowd filled with people of all ages and races wanting to pay respects to mandiba. one released a white glove in memory. michelle kosinski joins me live. describe what you're seeing throughout the day and night. how do you put it in words? >> reporter: it's tough. emotional and unified is a good way to describe it. even when you look into this crowd this is just one little segment you're seeing, everybody is taking a peek in the camera. the incredible diversity you see in our one live shot. when you walk through the crowd, you see much more. all races, all faiths. it's a big crowd, hundreds of people at every moment throughout today and there was always dancing and singing without ceasing. it's completely orderly and very polite. we've been touched by the efforts that people have been making. one family went home and baked a
bunch of treats for people and brought them out here to give them away. another person had a camera and portable printer and giving people photos to have a memento of this. it just feels like a kind of outpouring of energy for good, a really positive sense that they had a great person in this country and they want to keep that feeling alive. i think that's what sort of stirs you and that's what we've been hearing from people here. it's nice that it is a positive force that brings everybody together. that seems to be what people are reflecting. the crowd here -- sorry, just hit someone they are standing so close to me. sorry. people are gathered around this fence that's right outside the mandela property. this morning it was a long bare wire fence. at this moment it is absolutely covered with roses. i think to have so many people in one place going on 24 hours
now, with the same idea that let's -- that the mandela message and legacy was not just for one group but was for all groups and for democracy, it makes people very happy to be a part of it. >> you can see that, behind you. we see the rainbow that nelson mandela referred to and wanted his country to be behind you. tell me a little bit more about what we're hearing regarding the next few days and how this country, this world will pay its respects. >> lots of great stories. i think the plans have been in place for a while. they are really spread throughout south africa. we have that big gathering on tuesday that will be a memorial service in the stadium and holds tens and thousands of people. that will be an outpouring. and a number of world leaders are expected to attend that and not only the state funeral that will be on the 15th but even
prior to the memorial service on tuesday, the president announced this coming sunday will be a day of prayer and people are encouraged to do things in their own homes. there's just something about this story that has extended over. decades that makes people want to go outside and just hang out here really. people haven't been staying all day. it's not one of those things that gathers too many people and then becomes unruly. it's that people want to show up and pass through and put some flowers down. they tell their own personal stories. we see a lot of interracial couples and friends of different races coming together to represent what the spirit of this is all about. >> what a blessing they are to have this experience today and be able to share it with so many people. thank you very much, michelle. let me bring in nbc news contributor charlayne hunter. joining us by phone, u.s.
ambassador, patrick gasper. thanks for joining. i have to tell you i read an interview with you yesterday and comments you made and we wonder about our journey on this planet. here you were in the early 20s in a room alone with nelson mandela, a nervous young man and now here you are the ambassador of south africa. what did he mean to your life? >> well, tamron, thank you so much for having me on at this period of reflection. nelson mandela meant everything in my life. like many other young activists, he was our touchstone, north star and somebody whose moral example really stirred my sense of how ordinary people can do extraordinary things if they have valued sense of politics. i'll never forget the time i was able to spend with him both in new york and then in south
africa, 23 years ago. and i'm going through everything i can as u.s. representatives to help carry forth that legacy. >> and you first met mr. mandela right after being released from jail. you were in a room alone with him. tell me about that moment. you're young, 20 and impressionable and looking for your place and 20 years later you would be the ambassador for south africa. what happened in that room? >> really pretty incredible to me and hilarious in retrospect. this was immediately after the ticker tape parade we had and i escorted him into city hall, and next i knew we were alone. i discovered in moments of silence, had a weightiness to him. i was probably staring at him awe struck for ten minutes then a voice said, young man, may i
trouble you for a glass of water. he said it with a little slight i am patience and it became clear he probably asked several times but i was so dumb struck by him that my feet were rooted. of course, i hurried and got him water and never ever had such pleasure in providing service to another human being. i just wished i could have done more in his service and for his cause. >> we hear people say that nelson mandela is the moral compass for south africa, for the continent, for the world in so many ways. with this job of great responsibility that you have as an ambassador, how do you go about your day and making t an assessment and representing the u.s. there with i guess your hero in mind, our hero in mind and your daily decisions? >> you know, something, tamron. nelson mandela cared profoundly about the concerns, aspirations
of young people. i've done all that i can in two and a half months i've been here to make it clear that the united states intends to invest in the young people of south africa to make certain they have better health care outcomes and they have real economic opportunity and that education is something that is available to all that we walk towards more pros spert pore young people in the country. when president obama was here a few short months ago, he talked about the ways it has the potential to be an after our strengths are linked to one another. i think that's the best way to memorialize all that he meant to us. >> we know december 15th is when will be the final good-bye, if that's appropriate to say, we'll see each other again, but the final good-bye here.
i can't imagine there won't be a television set or radio on where people will gather and watch this moment that will be unmatched as far as the diversity and the range of people who sincerely say that this man changed their life, set the compass of their direction in life. >> that's so true, tamron. during the anti-apartheid moment, we used to chant all the time, the whole world is watching, here again he has made certain that the world world is watching, everyone is pausing and reflecting on what this man meant to us all. we count ourselves blessed to have lived in the shadow of his grace all of these years and it's just going to be one of those moments spoken of for years. where people ask where you were, what you were doing and how you marked this history. >> i'm going to let you go. i know you have a lot to deal with this at hour. i greatly appreciate you joining
us. it's an honor to speak with you. let me bring in charlayne hunter and we have with us former u.n. ambassador. last night watching the coverage and reading and i cannot recall as a journalist seeing so many journalists take great pride and say i interviewed him at this time. there was one after another. the list goes on and on of people who held this interview with nelson mandela in a sacred box almost separate from any other interview. >> i know, we all talk about objectivity but we're all creatures of our environment, our background and experiences and just this morning a friend sent me a youtube clip and reminded me that after every new year's eve party that my husband and i used to go to new york, bring back, nelson mandela, the great song. i don't know.
i think he rose above -- >> there was a time when he was judged. but i don't think those doing the judging look like us. there came a time when we african-american journalists brought a new perspective looking at the free south african movement and nelson mandela. there were others like tom brokaw and any number i can use, can name, but i think that it took many of us who had been partly -- part of a civil rights movement and fought against jim crow, which is our apartheid in america. we appreciated someone who was rising above the situation in south africa so the world could know. for many years their struggle was going on and nobody was listening. >> absolutely. you wrote in your piece on nelson mandela to the very end,
he was frail and somewhat forgiveful and remained the father of the nation for south africans and in several trips he made to the hospital over the past two years, he was in his own way preparing his family biological and extended, for his final return home. he was 95. we know this life is not permanent in this form here. when you -- the news broke, despite his age and despite knowing his health situation, no one wanted to let him go for what he represented, even though that continues as he's passed away. >> i think so many people wish it could continue even more intensely. but i've got rn e-mails from friends in south africa who were doctor and people who like you said watched his progression and they say even though -- they've been writing to me saying i think he's going -- but now that he's gone, they are shedding tears and it's a moment that very few of us have ever experienced.
we experienced it with martin luther king and his murder was somewhat different. but this is a man who like dr. king, taught us about humanity. and wanted us to be more human in our interactions. and i loved hearing michelle talk about the interracial couples because when i first went there, you didn't see that. and now that is one symbol of the progress that you see these cap chino colored children. that's not the only measure. so many white people have turned out there and i think that that's a real testment. the real question is will this continue beyond this day? i think that's a question of leadership. if the leaders can now embrace mandela's vision and make sure that it remains captured like this moment has captured it. >> ambassador young, let me bring you in to the conversation. thank you for making time.
we heard charlayne make the comparison and like dr. king, nelson mandela, rejected by many, labeled a terrorist until 2008. but with the push from journalists of color, lawmakers of color, eventually, pointing to the truth, this is the man we remember today, not this man vilified or this creature that never existed. >> he never existed as a terrorist. he was a product of the university which was methodist congre congregationalist and tribal values are essentially geared towards reconciliation and living together.
what happened in this country was our civil rights movement became integrated, he was sentenced in '62. that was just right after the freedom rides. it was just before we went into birmingham. and while we were in birmingham, i think somewhere around there the sharpville killings occurred. and so our movements moved in parallel. i first went with arthur ash in 1974. and when we came back, we came back determined that i was in the congress then. that we were going to start the process of sanctions. it was interesting to me that we couldn't get a lot of middle ground democrats to lead. we got the black caucus but i had to get actually newt gingrich and former secretary --
oh, i'm having a senior moment. >> that's okay. >> two republicans that first came on the list. and then we got this. then it was voted and then it was vetoed and then a movement started but all of the time there was some also movement going in africa, led largely by nigeria and tanzania, putting pressure on the commonwealth. this didn't happen just because nelson mandela became a saint in prison. it happened because of the outside pressures that were put on south africa on the united states and on great britain from all over the world. >> it was a collective outside pressure from my perspective. located in texas i remember vividly watching mtv and seeing pop culture people say they would not perform in sun city
then hearing the song about the man nelson mandela and watching you and other leaders on the news discuss this. we're looking at it from all of these different perspectives but collectively it impacted all of these lives. i think that's the but it will of what we talk about today and what we will talk about for eternity when you speak of nelson mandela, the beauty of here we are, african-americans in the united states with our struggle, this struggle and the continent that is our home, happening and they merge together add an incredible time in the world. >> mrs. king invited winnie mandela to the 20th anniversary of the march on washington in 1983. and winnie mandela had a hard if not hard a time outside the prison on her own. it was turned into what they
call robin island university or nelson mandela university. they really ran that prison. those on the outside continued to be plagued, continued to be suffered. steve was killed shortly after that time. chris hanny, the -- there was not a sudden change in refirmation. we grew towards freedom and it was the spirit of mandela, along with the spirit of all of the people of goodwill all over the earth. >> and spirit of people whose lives were lost along the journey as well. many of them both there and here in this country. thank you so much for your time. charlayne, always an honor to be in your presence. >> same here. >> much more ahead. i'll talk with buygrapher who says we need to remember mandela's years of suffering and
sacrifice and not allow him to be the only peace until loving grandfather figure, we must remember the young man who fought for his country. plus, another big story we're following, stocks rally after the unemployment rate drops to five-year low, more than 200,000 jobs added, zachary cara bell will discuss the new numbers and what it means for the stimulus program. the icy conditions that brought traffic to a stand still in the dallas ft. worth area spreading east. hundreds and thousands of people without power. a million right now without power. we'll get an update on that storm. and this is just amazing. it's one of my favorite images of the day. nasa joins the worldwide tributes to nelson mandela with an image from space.
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. we will have much more ahead on passing of nelson mandela. labor department reported employers added 203,000 jobs last month and nation unemployment rate fell to 7%. that's a five-year low and we're on track for the best year of job creation since 2005. wall street is reacting to the gains with up over 188 pointsz and s&p up as well, nasdaq up too. joining me now, cnbc contributor, how do you rate these numbers? >> they are pretty good. more people are looking for jobs and that there are jobs to look
for. it's a good headline number and the rate is going down. fz interesting that -- two things, one, stocks are going up. for past week stocks have gone down on the hint of bad news. my favorite headlines stocks rally on worse than expected data. there's a game going on, if the economic data gets too good the federal reserve changes its policies and withdraws this easy money. the other side is, even those these numbers are getting better and better, there's a big sentiment gap between the numbers getting better and just a vast amount of both discontent and legitimate struggling going on. which these numbers are not doing a good job of capturing. we've talked about the minimum wage this week which obama had the big speech about on wednesday. even though you have job creation, still a lot of this in the service sector and bartenders, it's not great jobs and not paying so well. i think we're going to morph into a much more constructive debate about what are people
earning and what is their livelihood and security? >> that's a fantastic point. you look at the unemployment, break it down by race. we're seeing .6 decrease in african-americans and .4 in hispanics and .2 with whites. no change in asian. but the larger question, seems to be and you've been pushing this, transitioning from focusing on the unemployment number and focusing on the kind of work that people are -- >> the kind of jobs people are actually getting. >> with jobs that people have to try to make ends meet and the ends are not meeting when you're making 15,000. >> you're getting mcdonalds and walmart, large sources of employment. but you have a lot of government transfer payments to meet them. we're in this mix. the employment situation has improved and we should acknowledge that. you can't falsify crisis in order to generate a political
discussion. we don't have unemployment crisis, spain has one. we have an issue, what's going to happen in terms of education and labor force? >> the working poor conversation. >> exactly. that is very -- blacks and hispanics are at the epicenter of that along with education. and we're not going to solve this in the next month. every time the rate gets better, a lot of people get angry. either the numbers are gained or their own situation, i've still got $15,000 here, got payments and health care issues and that's the discussion that we'll have next year. >> zachary, we haven't seen you in a while. great having you on. >> we're tracking two winter storms. icy mess in the south and headed east. along with another blast of snow and freezing rain, not far behind. we're just learning the weather has forced cancellation of a big marathon in texas this weekend.
we'll get an update from the weather channel. pope francis responds to complaints that he largely ignored the catholic church's child abuse crisis. how the pope is now addressing it. but first -- ♪ >> more on the life of nelson mandela with live pictures outside his family's home in south africa where the crowds have gathered to celebrate the father of the nation. >> in the name of peace, democracy and freedom for all, i stand here before you not as a prophet but as a humble of you have the people.
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welcome back, at least a quarter million people are without power as a major ice storm pounds the central part of the country. tens and thousands of more people could lose their power in the coming days. hardest hit has been northern texas, ice as knocked out power to 450,000 homes there. 1,000 flights in and out of dallas have been canceled and just a few moments ago, city officials announced this weekend's marathon and children's hospital parade have also been canceled. a line of ice is threatening an area stretching from texas to ohio. in ft. worth alone, police have reported 180 accidents in 12 hours. the weather channel's paul goodloe is live with the forecast. this is pretty much a wash for the weekend even into next week with the second storm here as i understand it, paul. >> that's the key. you're from texas, it's hard to get 20s for a consistent amount of days and that's what we have here. we'll stay in the 20s into the weekend. hence all of the things being
canceled. the good news for dallas is reporting all of the that freezing rain and sleet out of the metro plex but still going on across much of arkansas and southern missouri and into western tennessee and kentucky and indiana and ohio dealing with this. the freezing rain is slowly going to come to the end around little rock and we're seeing fine, good riddance. it's 26 in dallas. we'll be around the same temperature for a high all weekend long. so whatever is frozen right now will stay frozen throughout the weekend. here's our forecast. throughout the afternoon we start pushing freezing rain and sleet out of little rock but still in the memphis area, also causing problems for travelers and packages, fedex is hubbed out of there. then we start to shrink that freezing rain and sleet line. it's more of a rain or snow event and we can actually see decent snows with this system as well. if it wasn't for the parl liesing ice, it's also a decent snowstorm. philly and new york, all rain for you. pittsburgh, we're seeing snow
showers for you. again, the ice is the parlizing things, watching for storm total about a quarter inch or more, including louisville and churchill downs is covered in ice right now. the snow, you can see some areas in the northern ohio valley, picking up 6, maybe even 10 inches of snow from this storm. there's another one, tamron that comes for the end of the weekend. >> all right, paul, thank you very much. coming up, more on the top story in the world. these are live pictures outside nelson mandela's home in johannesburg, crowds are still there and not leaving, paying respect to mr. mandela. we'll talk with a biographer who is concerned the former leader will his younger image will be forgot be and people will focus so much on what we see as this silent grandfather. we'll talk about this and what he means by this. we'll be right back. y -
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more on the life and legacy of nelson mandela. sheila jackson lee and barry dennenberg, congresswoman, thank you for joining us. we saw the photograph that you sent when you had an opportunity to meet mr. mandela. what was that like for you? >> so very special. and as i think about the meeting and the opportunity to see him again in my own hometown of houston and then of course as we travel to south africa, all of those types were all encompassing, meaning that all of your five senses were touched by his appearance, his stateliness and words you heard, by his spirit and sense of humbleness and the worldliness
that he had even looking better over a life of tall mountains and low valleys, incarceration, imprisonment, he still had the common touch. late last evening i called him among other things i man for all ages. i would offer today he was a man for all people and we're seeing that now. what strikes us, i guess, is the humbleness of someone of such grandeur and such responsibility for so many people during his lifetime. >> let's talk about the politics and how the united states handled the call for sanctions and pressure that was needed to put on. many of your colleagues in congress, african-american members of congress were the first to sound the alarm and put pressure on the leadership, ronald reagan and others to do something, to stand for what was seen as courageous at the time.
>> the black caucus provided enormous leadership. when i say that, even those words don't equate to the leadership that the congressional black caucus had. my predecessors, bar bra jordan and ron dellums, great leaders all throughout the congressional black caucus would not take no for an answer, not only from congress but president ronald reagan that thought he was adhering to the leadership of a sovereign nation. but we know that sovereignty could not in any way stamp on our trample on freedom or justice or democracy. there was no freedom and democracy in apartheid south africa. each time we pushed for sanctions or the congressional black caucus at that time, i was not in the united states congress, there was pushback. but they would not be denied. what helped them was the many efforts springing up around america that sort of would he
have themselves between the civil rights moment and anti-apartheid moment. and finally, the congress was able to override the president's veto. that was a grand gesture befitting of the kind of leadership that president mandela was to give. >> that the overriding reagan posing economic sanctions that helped break the o apartheid regime. let me play what ronald reagan said in 1986 at the time. >> this was in a sovereign nation, you can't dictate to them and tell them how to run their country. >> barry, let me bring you in. your concern is that -- not -- i don't know if that's the right word, something you pointed out. >> that's the right word. >> you're concerned that people will see the image of nelson mandela today, which is a beautiful image, as you pointed out some see it as a loving grandfather and forget the fighter who went up against the world in a sense and went up against those who might have
known what was right in their hearts but chose to act differently with their words and their actions. >> i think that's well said. and my people, to define them, i write books for american middle grade students and my concern -- and i was pleased to see you had a picture of nelson mandela with mohammed ali. >> you make the parallel between the two great men. >> one actually wonderful story is that when mandela was released from robin island and was -- had access to a television, his first request was to watch the thriller in manila. don't forget, mandela was a heavyweight boxer and greatly inspired by ali. my point to get back to the original one you raised, i fear that people like lincoln and i
call it becoming ali, that students today are not remembering this picture of nelson mandela, what revolutionaries they were and how tough and complicated things were. yes, i think mandela is inspirational and it's foolish for me to even say that. but i want him perceived as not an icon but an icon class. i want him perceived as a real person with faults, something he always said, and that's my concern in my book, which i many revising as we speak. >> how will we make sure that does happen? you have the media responsibility but this is also an issue of sometimes what people are comfortable -- i think a lot of folks especially in the states aren't comfortable remembering the stance that ronald reagan took or nelson
mandela was on the terrorist watch list until wait and choose to remember this beautiful image that exists now but kind of put the backburner on what was that struggle to get to this point. >> the answer to that question is you could have people like you having people like me talking like this. okay? and having the truth in its complexity come out, con sigs is the enemy of truth. yes, we need sound bites but we also need more nuance looks at people. and i think that one of the things that came out from the recent movie and from his families experience with that, which i applaud, is that he had a sacrifice really being a father and husband. and i think that's -- that's important. it's important about martin luther king and important about nelson mandela. and again, to get back to my
constituency, which are the kids, you can't fool kids. okay? it makes them realer. and they become more interested. >> congresswoman, let me get you in on the larger picture, the politics and tone of the day, how some of the things that people stand for today years later they regret and i'm sure decisions made by nelson mandela and lawmakers chose not to stand on what we know now is right. they were on the wrong side of history and we hear that argument to some of the issues today. >> first of all, let me say that the comments made by barry -- we thank him for educating the new generation, are certainly those who choose, many of us know that story very well. that is why members of the congressional black caucus and why there was such a widespread effort among the african-american community in
protest which was joined at that time by young whites and others. i know of mandela's trial, the first one he was acquitted. i know his father died as an offering and he was framed by the royal house, if you will, that he had another trial that he was convicted of. then of course, he was sentenced to those of us who went to robin island could never stand in his shoes. we know he had to break rock. we know he was a -- my good friend barbara lee and i joined in to press the administration and take his name off. we know he had a more than rough river to travel and mountains to climb. we give these accolades now so that the wholeness of his person can be evidenced by the fact that he rose above all of that. what i would say is there were so many on the wrong side of history, however, as the former president of south africa, it
took a man like nelson mandela to reach out to those on the wrong side of history and cast him aside and rendered him in essence incarcerated and enslaved for 27 years actually. and in a prison because he had been a rebel. he had used weapons. he came to the point of saying there would be no change without violence. but it took him to come out and to extend his hand and to get those on the wrong side of history to be as if they had never stood in those shoes and be a brother to him and get south after cannericans and he boxer and did a lot of rugby. i want to say, when i man can say i don't want black dominance or white dominance, i want freedom and democracy and people to live in harmony, that is an amazing statement to the world not just to south africans, but to the world.
>> absolutely. >> great pleasure having you both on today. thank you. still ahead, our "news nation" gut check, including what president obama said to chris matthews about the gridlock in washington. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of all day pain relief. this season, discover aleve. all day pain relief with just two pills. of their type 2 diabetes with non-insulin victoza®. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar, but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza®. he said victoza® is different than pills. victoza® is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once-a-day, any time, and comes in a pen.
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♪ honestly ♪ i wanna see you be brave ♪ time for the "news nation" political post script. this week began with the o bamd ma administration with a major push to put the technical problems behind healthcare.gov and get more young americans to sign up. >> i think there are a bunch of republicans who want to get stuff done. they've got to be embarrassed because the truth of the matter is that they've now been in charge of the house of representatives, one branch of -- one chamber and one branch of government, for a couple of years now and don't have a lot to show for it. >> joining me now, nbc news political editor mark murray. i imagine the sunday morning programs, the tone will take a change focusing on nelson
mandela and incorporating into the ability if there is to work together in this country in washington, d.c. but we're going to see a change in tone from what we were expecting to see on sunday. >> no doubt about that, tamron. going to president obama's remarks, 2013 has been a completely unproductive year, any statistic you end up using or if you're a glass halfful type person, it is the one reason you might have optimism on immigration reform that house republicans have to go back to constituents and say, here's what i was able to achieve in the house of representatives. that's going to be the thing that's going to be pressing and some folks might be wanting for come next year. >> just going back again to the interview with chris and the president. he also asks, chris matthews asks president obama about 2016. we don't have to play it but he
played the middle game, complimenting them both heavily. >> it was a very diplomatic response. president obama holds both in high he steam. the political community doesn't expect both of them to run. it's going to be one or the other and right now looks like hillary clinton. >> mark, have a great weekend. thanks for joining us. if you missed chris's interview, it does reair today at 4:00 eastern on msnbc. we'll be right back. [ paper rustles, outdoor sounds ] ♪ [ male announcer ] laura's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one.
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♪ >> he achieved more than could be expected of any man. today he's gone home. we will not likely see the likes of nelson mandela again. so it falls to us as best we can to forward the example that he set. to make decisions guided not by hate but by love. >> president obama leading our nation in mourning. former south african mandela, his death 24 hours ago was not unexpected but caused a deep sense of loss and outpouring of memories and condolences. he spent 95 years on this earth. 27 of them in prison for treason. he led the crusade against