tv Lockup Raw MSNBC December 7, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PST
msnbc takes you behind the walls of america's most notorious prisons, into a world of chaos and danger. now the scenes you've never seen. "lock up raw." behind the walls of america's prisons, we witnessed the depths of despair. >> but i don't want to lose you your children. >> we've learned the price of crime that's often paid by the most innocent. >> i can't get out my daddy. >> we've seen creativity wasted
on destructive ends. >> i stabbed somebody with some jolly ranchers. >> we've also seen inmates determined to be themselves no matter how risky. >> oh, that's my schoolteacher look. >> and we've seen them adapt to a life in prison. >> it takes a lot of anger and temper away. makes it easier to cope in here. >> the thought of going to prison is frightening. it's really unimaginable. and for an inmate to survive behind bars, he really needs to be able to adapt. over the years we've come across some very creative ways for inmates to adapt to the environment. >> on the positive side, we've seen long-lasting friendships. inmates bonding with cats. and creating their own prison cuisine in their cells. but there's a negative side to adaptation as well. any corrections officer will tell you there are way too many homemade shanks in prison and
plenty of inmates willing to use them. we were at the penitentiary of new mexico when an inmate tried to break away from his escort officer. and tried to stab another inmate with a unique homemade shank. >> he actually fabricated this out of a piece of a pencil sharpener. you can see the rivet right in there. then he attached paper clip to it, put plastic secellophane on it. he put this on there so he could have some control. once he sliced the individual -- he's pretty ingenious as far as how he makes weapons. >> the inmate is 30-year-old christopher and his ability to craft ingenious weapons isn't the only thing that makes him memorable. >> the first time i met him i was quite shocked by his appearance. i'd never seen anybody before
who had a giant bullet hole in his forehead. >> a tattoo i got a long long time ago. it's just a bullet hole. it's like a bullet hole. >> shiver decker has had plenty of time to amass tattoos and learn the ways of prison. at an age when most boys collect baseball cards he was collecting convictions. >> the time i really got in trouble think i was 10 1/2. got grand theft auto. >> since then, he has spent far more time inside correctional institutions than outside. he's currently serving 45 years for assault, battery and possession of a deadly weapon by a prisoner, a weapon every bit as creative as this most recent one. >> i stabbed somebody with some jolly ranchers. took a bunch of candy off the canteen, melted it down into a cone. let it get hard like a rock. and it's actually stronger than
glass. and sometimes it's not always you're going to outmuscle somebody. you got to outthink them, you know? >> at 4'11" and 100 pounds, shiverdecker must be creative to survive in prison. he also uses his size to his advantage. >> he is so small that he can slip his handcuffs. he's got a little game with the new officers where they'll put him in there to take the handcuffs off him and he'll hand them to them after he's slipped them. >> but just because i'm small i'm able to slip the handcuffs anytime i want, i'm a problem, you know? >> this handy talent enabled shiverdecker to elude sergeant rick ortega and officer michelle carpenter when he launched his most recent attack.
in a matter of seconds he slipped his cuffs, tried to get away from her. i decided to take him down because i felt he was a threat alread already. >> ortega, you've got to leave some damn weight. can't trust me. >> despied shiverdecker's violent reputation, oddly enough he got along pretty well with staff members. he will defend himself at all costs. but staff never bothered him. and he had respect for the fact they're doing their job. all he wanted to do was survive. >> he's actually a cooperative inmate. he was very concerned about the staff getting hurt or assaulted during this situation. he had no intention of injuring or assaulting any staff members. he just had a mission. >> he told me make sure it's not a rookie escorting me. make sure it's you and the sergeant. then he said to watch myself today. so i got an indication that something was possibly going to
happen. >> the more i spoke to him, and in spite of his criminal history, shiverdecker believed in karma. and while we were there, he shared with us how he was trying to improve his karma. and it had to do with a haircut. >> talk about your hair. what happened? why did you cut it? >> cut it off. it was long enough so i could cut it off so i could send it out. >> to? >> locks of love for the kids who have cancer. >> why though? >> why? why did i do it? i don't know. just something to do. i mean, i don't know how you'd put it, karma. you do something bad you got to do something good to level it out. >> when it comes to someone as crafty as shiverdecker, even an attempt to do good arouses suspicion. not long after he cut his hair for a cancer patient, officers decided to confiscate. >> it's been done in the past where they can make a head and glue all that hair onto a dummy
head. an officer can go by thinking the guy's asleep and it's actually a dummy head and this guy can escape. so we had to consider that. >> hey, i need to get that hair from you. whatever documentation you have to send it out, give me the documentation with it. >> i'll let the case worker do i it. >> they want to make me look like a monster. i've been here over 2 1/2 years. never did nothing. i don't disrespect nobody, don't cause no problems or nothing. >> we met a rookie officer who was about to find out if that's true. >> i haven't messed with him before. it's the first time.
i don't know. shiverdecker. i've heard of the reputation. i wasn't too far away when he did his action last week. but i'm hoping to anticipate a good day for him, that he's not going to go crazy, but we'll see. >> we were with rookie officer derrek brell as he had his first encounter with shiverdecker. the prison believes there's an opportunity of training for somebody like shiverdecker. >> show us a demonstration of how you do it. >> no. >> why not? >> this is prison. this isn't a play thing. >> we want to train these officers on what to look out for. and you'd actually be a vital training element in this. we got an officer here, a new officer named officer brell. >> that's my [ mute ] safety net. >> i understand that. but if you can do it you can do it.
>> yeah, right now. but i don't just do it just to do it, you know? if i don't like what's going on of course i'm going to do it. >> that's understandable. but i'm just asking you for training purposes for this new officer would you be willing to show us how you do it? >> no. >> no? >> shiverdecker refused to comply. but he did have some advice for the rookie officer. >> straight up. i mean, we're not your buddy. we're not your [ mute ] friend. we're here to do our time. you're here to do your job, you know? if i feel like i'm in a bad situation and i got to go through you to save my own ass, ten son it. that -- then so be it. that's what i'm going to do. that goes for anybody. this is prison. >> i understand. put that a little tighter. hold up, shiverdecker. hold up. check this out. if you can put your finger in
there it's too loose. see how loose it was? >> yes, sir. >> best thing i can tell you is don't trust nobody. >> you can city slip that damn cuff, can't you? >> coming up. >> i did so much damage, they said that i had to have a weapon. >> violent women attempt to balance prison with motherhood. >> i have guilt of thinking of my kids. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. [ male announcer ] this december, experience the gift of exacting precision and some of the best offers of the year [ ding! ] at the lexus december to remember sales event. this is the pursuit of perfection.
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new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, changes in eyesight including blurry vision, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or skin sores from diabetes. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. most inmates with lengthy sentences usually find ways to adapt to life behind bars. but dealing with changes outside prison walls, that's a greater challenge. particularly as their families adapt to life without them. and they find there's nothing they can do about it. >> i have two boys.
i have a 9-year-old and i have a 7-year-old. >> i gave birth to a healthy baby boy almost 20 months ago. >> we met christina meadows and christine taylor at the tennessee prison for women. both were eager to talk about their children, which made the graphic details they shared about their violent crimes all the more shocking. >> i did so much damage, they said that i had to have a weapon which i didn't. >> it was almost like an al pacino movie, i guess you could say. very brutal, bloody. >> christine taylor, serving 12 years for aggravated robbery and kidnapping, told us about the eight hours she held a friend captive and brutally beat her. she had accused the friend of stealing from her. >> burned her on her face. i burned her on her sides with a 12-gauge shotgun i had pistol whipped her in her hip which took a chunk about a quarter size out of her hip. she was disfigured, i guess you
could say. her face couldn't really look at her and see it was her. >> christina meadows also knew her victim. she and her cousin got into a fight that escalated into a vicious assault. >> i hit her so many times in the same spot, you know, i made a gash from up here to down here. she was 6'0" and weighed about 350 pounds. i was about a buck 30. i did so much damage, they said that i had to have a weapon which i didn't have a weapon. but you hit somebody repeatedly over and over, especially in your head. it's thin skin right here, you know? it's going to eventually bust open. but when you're hopped up on drugs you're capable of anything. >> just your hands? >> yeah, hitting her with my hands. >> what happened to your hands? >> nothing. >> meadows' hands got her into more trouble. she had been at a minimum security facility, but after several fights with other inmates was transferred to the segregation unit at tennessee
prison for women. >> warden said i was a threat to security of this institution and i was a threat to inmates. that he didn't have a program for me, that my behavior was too aggressive. >> meadows' sons are living with family while she serves four years for aggravated assault and a concurrent sentence for forgery. and she's concerned one of her boys might be following her example. >> first he stole like a dollar from his teacher. and then he's stealing money from his grandma. and i got on the phone and i asked him, why are you stealing money from grandma? he said well i was stealing one dollars and five dollars from her and she never knew, so i thought i would take a 20. he got in trouble for that. the whole family came down and did like this intervention thing. so i told him not to steal from grandma. instead of stealing from grandma he store from the next-door neighbor. so i'm having to deal with my crime, you know, forgery, it's the same sense. i stole the money. i forged a check. so to me i look at myself, and i
have guilt, major guilt of thinking okay so my kid's a thief because i was a thief and what i got to do to change it. >> christine taylor also struggles with parenting from prison. especially when it comes to negotiating with her children's father. >> unfortunately some events transpired at daycare last week that are horrible. and he's still letting our children go there. but there's nothing that i can say. because i'm here and i'm helpless. >> later, we noticed taylor on a cell block pay phone talking to the father of her children. >> he's okay with going? he doesn't say, i don't want to go? does the lady still watch him? does she treat him any different? i mean, i don't know. should i be wondering these things after that incident? >> when we're filming in these prisons, i don't know if you call it luck or not. but we're there roaming around, and we just happen upon these situations with some of the people we've been filming with. and they're used to us at this
point. and in some ways they've become oblivious to us, as in the case of christine on the phone. >> then why don't you come down here and see me and bring our children? why can't i be a part of your life no more? i'm sick of being in this [ mute ] without you and wondering what's going on. i'm trying real [ mute ] hard to stay out of trouble and get my [ mute ] together. it feels like i have nothing to come home to. >> is encapsulates the loss one goes through when you're incarcerated. she's begging the father of her children to not leave her and to please let her see her kids. and it just became this very sad, desolate situation. which she rarkd upon afterwards. but it was the quintessential prison moment as far as we were concerned. >> i understand but i don't want to lose you and these children. and that's what it's feeling like. >> i've been with him since i was 15. we're unstoppable. and ever since i made a few
choices and i ended up here, it's put a damper on our relationship. it's very -- it's very hard. >> coming up, a troubled inmate and the young son who struggles to understand. >> i can't get out my daddy. >> it's the visitation our crew will never forget. >> i was over in the corner bawling. it was just horrible. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.
one of the most surprising experiences i had on lockup, i was working in michigan city, end which is my hometown at indiana state pensiitentiary. i ran into someone i used to play with as a child. it was one of those odd moments. what do you do? i didn't want to interrupt his visit and say hello. but later on as we were interviewing somebody else he came up to me and started talking to me. i got talking to him for a good
while. it was just the most interesting experience. because i hadn't seen him in years. and to be talking to him as he is now an inmate. and when we were 12, 13 years old i would never have guessed i would have been seeing him in this position. >> visitation often proves to be a place not only to find great stories but to see inmates in a different light. when we first met jonathan hall, serving 40 years for second degree murder at colorado's lyman correctional facility, we wouldn't have guessed that one of the most emotional reunions we would ever see between an inmate and a child would include him. >> my first impression of jonathan hall was that he was an out of control, maniacal young man. he was screaming at me through
his door. he was quite verbally assaultive. >> as time went on, i started having off-camera conversations with jonathan. and quickly i saw a very different human being. he was trying to educate himself. he had come from a very difficult life. and he was calm. and he was articulate. but the most striking thing about jonathan, which shifted his personality from this very tough, hard-core inmate to a far kinder and even softer person was the second he started talking about his son, ryan. >> this is me, my son, and my wife when my son was first born. i felt like my destiny was fulfilled, that that was what i was put on toert do was to have my son.
>> we were there when hall's mother, sister, wife and 3-year-old son orion arrived for a visit. the first with orion since he was an infant. but there wouldn't be so much as a hug between them. hall's prior behavior problems resulted in a non contact visit. >> hey, you. >> hi. >> can you say i love you, daddy? >> i love you, daddy. >> i love you, too. i miss you. >> orion was a bright light from the second that we saw him. he was very aware of his surroundings. he was over the moon to see his dad. he knew, oddly enough, that he was in a place where his dad didn't belong.
>> he was so excited to see you. he kept saying, i'm going to see my daddy. i'm going to see my daddy. you know what he said too? >> what? >> he said, this is a castle. we're going to the castle. >> oh, yeah? >> castle? >> he thinks it's a castle. >> daddy. daddy is stuck. he's stuck in the mirror. >> yeah. >> i can't get out my daddy. >> hearing that little kid say to his family, you know, i need to get my daddy out of the mirror, was heart-breaking. and as you can see now, i well up very easily. and i was over in the corner bawling. it was just horrible. >> my dad. my daddy. my daddy. >> you look like your daddy. >> later on, after the visit while we were still filming at lyman, jonathan was shipped out
to a much more restrictive prison. he seems resolute he's going to try to maintain a relationship with his little boy. >> next on "lock up raw." >> let's just say i hurt a lot of people. the best way to get aggression out. >> an old school convict with a reputation for trouble finds his softer side. >> get the little purr machine. you look at those big betty davis eyes and you think this guy depends on me. i got to take care of him. four perfect courses, just 15.99. come in to red lobster today and sea food differently. at afraud could meanuld blower credit scores. and higher car loan rates. it's a problem waiting to happen. check your credit score, check your credit report at experian.com.
president obama and the first lady will join former presidents clinton, george w. bush and carter in south africa next week. they'll all attend to memorial service for former south african president nelson man dell last snow, ice and rain are making for deadly, dangerous conditions across the nation. frigidly cold temperatures will grip many areas for days. how cold is it? so cold that this woman was actually able to ice skate on her street in southern indiana. i'm veronica de la cruz.
let's get you back to "lock up." i am talking decades and decades of time behind bars. and in order to survive they have to find ways to make the absolute most of whatever small pleasures they can find. >> i think we should go get some bleach and make everything brighter and whiter. >> james stone may still look like a young man, but his boyish face conceals a hard-lived life behind bars. >> when i first came to prison, had nothing to lose. didn't care about anything. and i was very violent. >> he is now 55 years old, and has been an inmate at indiana state prison for more than two decades. >> they said i deid attempted
murder, deviant conduct and chemical conversion and kidnapping. >> in all, stone was sentenced to 101 years for his crimes. >> the judge puts you in here. now, how you make your life in here is up to you. >> these days, stone doesn't like all the changes he's seen at indiana. especially when it comes to the younger generation. >> they have no respect for themselves, little less anyone else. back in those days you had respect for everyone in here. you didn't have to lock your stuff up. there was rules that we followed that was our own. i mean, sure. there was stabbing, there was deaths. but they were legit. they weren't over a box of cakes or something like that, you know? because a guy's a child molester or wants to turn state evidence on someone or something. he got knocked. these guys now, for a $2 rolo he's getting mugged. come on. >> but stone used to be a bit of
a menace himself in his younger days. >> let's just say i hurt a lot of people. seemed the best way to get aggression out. i was taking pills, drinking. because back in those days we had real liquor in here. not wine. not hooch. we had real liquor. >> stone used to be kind of a rebel. >> major robert cavanaugh was a correctional officer when stone first arrived. >> me and stone got to know each other quite a bit when i was in charge of cell houses. i was the captain in charge of cell houses. and i used to walk a lot. >> that's because when fistfighting with officers was allowed. if they opened up your cell door and told you to step out, it was punch for punch and no write ups involved. all about respect. get your teeth knocked out or next day everything's forgotten about. can't do that now, though. now they call it spouse abuse. >> he would go around and drink, smoke, get into different kind
of things like that. >> i was on pills. i was popping all these [ mute ] pills and acid. anything i could get. what the [ mute ]. i mean, you know, what? i got to stay healthy or something? you just put me here, i'm more or less just a zombie that ain't just woo but i'm having fun so screw it. i'm going to stay bomb and high and everything and go around and beat everybody up if i can. that was my hustle, collecting for the dope guys. >> he was a hoodlum. >> but by the time we met him in 2008, stone had matured and found satisfaction in things beyond fighting and drinking. >> he knows that he's in prison. and he's going to make the best of every day. he is social. he has friends. he likes his job. >> a bird it's a plane no it's the biobucket man. >> he wakes up knowing that he has a purpose, although it's not his ideal purpose. he never questions it. >> to the bat cave.
>> indiana prison officials allowed us to give certain inmates personal cameras to tell their stories in private. stone used his to tell us about some of his healthier choices. >> as you see, there's plenty of vegetables. i grow gardens here. and i try to eat as healthy as i possibly can. because we don't get it in the chow hall. down there you see vitamins. i take vitamins every day. it's just part of my daily routine. i like making stuff out of garbage, recycling. here's clocks and stuff. chests, clocks that i've made with recycled material out of the trash. old scrap lumber that was gotten rid of. >> but there's one thing that turns stone's life around more than anything else. >> get the live purr machine. >> before i had a cat, believe me, i wasn't a person that you wanted to know. as a matter of fact, i wasn't a
nice person at all. >> at indiana state, some inmates are allowed to adopt cats from a local shelter that might otherwise be euthanized. but the program started when stone first helped out a newborn stray more than ten years ago. >> i've got a lot of knowledge and way with animals from the streets. and i helped deliver some kittens that was caught from a wildcat near. and one of them, he was deformed looking. nobody wanted to even handle him he looked so weird. and i wasn't going to let him be killed or go to the pound or anything like that. >> it was hard to think of james stone as being this rabble rouser. just seeing him being just such a nice guy and just friendly to everybody, it was hard to imagine him in his skull-cracking days, as he said. i think his first cat had a lot to do with that. i would have liked to have seen him back then. just to see the contrast between the two. >> this is jinx. this is my little buddy here.
i've had him since 2005. because my first cat died in 2005. and they replaced him with one that looked similar to him. >> hey, jinxster. smile for the camera. that's what i'm talk about. >> and i have to tell you, this guy loves his cat. loves loves loves. he talked about his cat more than anybody that i had met. he had built this elaborate cat house, this two-story -- it almost looked like a doll house. it was crazy. >> as you see, it's got everything to it. it's got skyline windows, the whole bit. >> i keep everything so it's more or less cat proof. i don't have things down to where the cat can mess it up. because a cat's a cat. >> his cat was his best friend. his cat was his roommate. he was probably his confidante. and most importantly, this cat talked him down. if anything got on his nerves, that cat probably heard an awful lot. >> i mean, he takes a lot of the anger and temper away.
makes it easier to cope in here. because when i do feel like i'm about ready to go and do something stupid, i can just hold him in my lap, pat him, stroke him a few times. you look at those big betty davis eyes and you think, hey, this guy depend on me. i got to take care of him. >> stone's cats have even eased tensions with old adversaries. >> what's up? >> thought i'd bring big boy over for you to see. >> i can't believe how fat he is. look at that guy. he's a cow! what's up, dude? >> just goes to show, fruits and vegetables ain't necessarily good on a diet. >> how you doing? he's too fat to catch anything. >> no, but i don't have to worry about that big ass hawk anymore. >> i think i lost a couple to the hawk and the coyotes. >> yeah? >> yeah. >> that might be why he's so fat, too. figuring that bird can't pick him up. >> how big he is.
he's huge. >> he's not as big as jinx was, though. jinx was longer and taller. >> jinx wasn't that heavy, though. >> no. he was strong. >> he was just more lean. >> he's my little buddy. >> see you. see you, jinxster. >> he's more dependable than anything i've got in here. i will do without before he will. i give animals more respect than i do people. because they deserve it. they deserve it. they're not the ones messing up the world, we are. >> up next, the gender-bending ways of the inmate known as holly betterly. >> i might look sophisticated. [ cheeping ] [ male announcer ] you hear that?
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i get out a lot... except when it's too cold. like the last three weekends. asthma doesn't affect my job... you missed the meeting again last week! it doesn't affect my family. your coughing woke me up again. i wish you'd take me to the park. i don't use my rescue inhaler a lot... depends on what you mean by a lot. coping with asthma isn't controlling it. test your level of control at asthma.com, then talk to your doctor. there may be more you could do for your asthma. when our cruise arrive at any new prison, there's one location that is considered a
high priority. administrative segregation. adseg is where destructive or violent inmates are housed in highly restricted cells. usually for 23 hours a day with virtually no privileges. it's also where some of our most dramatic stories are found. and the holeman correctal facility in alabama proved to be no exception. that's where we met marcus thomas, who prefers to be called holly berry. >> okay. i know that i was born a male. i know that. that i do know. that's just a reality. but i live as a woman. i so myself as a woman. oh, that's my schoolteacher look. yeah. i like to look sophisticated. >> i refer to holly as she because she asks me. to and out of respect, i'm happy to do that. but in reality, she's a man. the first time we met her, she was in lock up.
she was being taken out to have an interview. and our cameraman, brian, started to follow her. and i watched his facial expression change. because holly would do these exaggerated mannerisms what she thought was a woman. and her hips were swaying back and forth as she walked down the tier. of course, all the other inmates start hooting and hollering. everywhere she went at holeman prison she created a scene. >> holly was in adseg because his various relationships with other inmates led to disruptions. but he's no stranger to troubling relationships. he's serving 25 years for murdering the man he considered to be his husband. >> he and some of his colleagues were having a little ball, valentine's day ball. he come in and i was associating with another guy. just talking. and he just grabbed me. and one thing led to another. he drug me outside.
began beating on me, beating me, beating me, beating me, beating me. i just -- i just stabbed him. he fell. i stand him again. >> holly did not let prison end his love life. he told us he's had three prison husbands so far. and the current one figured out a way for the couple to be close to one another in the crowded general population dorms. >> let me tell you, he will actually pay the guy that slept next to me? he would actually pay him to sleep in his bed. sure would. just to be beside me. ain't that something? >> the inmate holly considers his husband asked to remain anonymous to prevent his family from learning about the relationship. >> i never thought in a million years i'd be in a relationship
like this. >> i'm his first, his only and his last. >> the prison, of course, does not allow inmates to marry one another. but that didn't stop holly and his boyfriend from exchanging rings and vows. but soon after, the couple landed in adseg after another inmate jumped holly and his boyfriend retaliated with a beating. holly's boyfriend was eventually released back into general population but holly remained in lock up a year later. >> well, back to my hot little cell. why you saying it like that? >> clean the pig sty up. >> you leave my house alone. >> the hardest thing about being in lock up is not being able to
sit and talk to him and prepare his meals for him, to iron his clothes, to wash his clothes. i mean, i enjoy doing all of that for him. going out on the weight pile and him coaching me and spotting me as i'm doing my little squats. >> shortly after this interview, holly had a meeting scheduled with warden grant culliver to plead his case for getting out of adseg. but before the warden arrived, holly broke down. >> i can't do this. i can't do this. >> it's okay. you're fine. >> i can't. >> from my observation, holly would burst into tears whenever she thought it would gain her some advantage. either getting sympathy from somebody.
at one point we were arguing about me referring to her as either she or him, and i had to remind holly that in fact, she had a penis which was why she was in a male facility. and she just went into this big greta garbo routine, wailing and bee moaning the fact she did in fact have a penis. >> what you crying for? >> oh, they wanted to do an interview with me. >> you want to be interviewed? >> they just -- they asked i have seen [ mute ]. >> that caused you to cry? because they asked you if oyou' seen [ mute ]? you're crazy.
>> you ain't going to win no academy award. stop crying. i don't want to hear you crying. i ain't going to talk to you about this. they want me to talk to you about being released to the general population. i ain't going to listen to you cry about some other damn man. >> i'm sorry. i'm sorry. i swear i'm sorry. >> why should i release you to pop? >> because, mr. culver, i've learned my lesson. >> okay. what kind of problems do we have when we turn you out to population? >> i don't know. >> huh? >> i don't know. >> yes, you do know. even though you call yourself an individual do you not have people that are coming after you all of the time? yes or no? just yes or no? >> well, yes. >> okay. do you not like that attention? >> no, sir, i don't. >> i cannot stop these guys from coming after you. and you know somebody's going to make a play for you. somebody's going to either try
to cross you out or cross [ mute ] out. to be able to get to you. you already know this. then we got an incident. so why should i turn you out to pop? >> please, mr. culver, just give me a chance please. >> i don't want you to beg me. i want you to give me one good reason why i should turn you out to pop. >> because i've made a change. i'm not coming back to lock up, mr. culver. i promise i'm not coming back. please. please. just give me a chance. i'm not coming back. >> i'll think about it. i ain't convinced right now, though. and the reason i'm not convinced is in the past, your past tells me if you go to general population you've got about 60 to 90 days in general population and there will be problems. >> i bet you're wrong this time. i bet you're wrong.
>> we'll see. there you go. >> if you could say anything what would that be? >> i would let her know that i love her, miss her, need her. waiting on her. >> no matter how long she's locked up? >> no matter how long. >> must be love. >> yep. >> as for the future, holly looks forward to spending a life with his boyfriend outside prison walls. >> i'm going to give him the best life you could imagine. i said baby, i'm going to show you what real love is. you ain't got to look this way or be this way or be that way to be accepted. >> coming up, some of the prison's top chef inmates provide a taste of their cell
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among the first questions asked of "lock up" producers by their friends and family at the end of the long prison shoot is usually, how was the food? when we traveled overseas for "lock up world tour" the answer was, pretty good, actually. a belgian inmate gave his prison's kitchen nothing but rave reviews. >> food here, they give same way that they give in belgian restaurant. in the belgian traditional restaurant what they give, they give also here. same taste, same everything. it's a five-star hotel. >> the food seemed equally pleasing in eastern europe as well, especially at a serbian
prison called zabor. >> to me it was vastly different from the kind of food served in an american prison. loafs of bread. the food looked fresh. it wasn't processed. and it was ladled out, served out fresh. so it was a different visual for me in terms of seeing the food. we walk into this one area and these massive vats of dough and yeast were being prepared for this homemade bread that they serve the inmates. so they offered us a chance to try it. i just delved into that bred bread. it was so delicious. this bread was probably the tastiest bread i've ever had. it was that good. >> most inmates we've met prefer their own culinary concoctions to chow hall. james is a self-trained saucier and keeps an impressive collection of spices to turn minute dane prison grub into something exotic. >> spices.
>> not to be outdone by their peers overseas, american inmates often choose to forego the chow hall and create their own meals with food they can purchase from the prison canteen. we met chris at the lyman correctional facility in colorado. >> take one whole sausage, slice it up long ways four different ways in quarters. you make quarters out of them. then you cut that completely in half. then sometimes i'll put a little bit of honey on top of the sausage, then i'll put the cheese over the top of it and then cook it in the microwave for a minute so it melts it down. and it makes a pretty good meal. better than the food they serve you in the chow hall. >> but one other lyman inmate,
ray slagel, took homemade prison cuisine to an entirely new level. >> honestly, man, cooking is my hobby. on the streets even, i love to cook. i like to make people happy. i'll make something at work and go to the job site and i'll give it to my little brother. hey, bro, try this. that's what i like to do. >> several of slagel's friends at lyman like his food so much they suggested to othur produce he should have his own cooking show. so we asked him for a demonstration of his cooking skills. >> i'm going to make the slagel fish sticks. big chunks of fish there. i busted this soup so it ain't all stringy. just put a little in there for filler. by the time i get done this will be ready. honestly. get the soup packet, put it over the fish.
spread it out nice and evenly. then you put a scoop of this and a little bit of this on the fish. just eyeball that. it tastes real good. it flavors up the fish real good. this dental floss will cut through anything. i like to get about three chunks of cheese and put it in the bottom with the fish. because that oil, it does something and makes that fish taste so much better. a little secret there. honestly it really comes out a lot better when it's like that. you cut up the sausage and put that over the fish. and then you put your onion and pepper, of course. i'm going to cut this up real quick. just cheese on the top. and then when you cook it in the microwave it won't stink up the whole pot. i've been cooking this for a couple of years now, tweaking it and twisting it until that comes out perfect. that's tasty. i'm going to take this over there right now.