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tv   The Cycle  MSNBC  January 23, 2014 12:00pm-1:01pm PST

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cycle" today. any moment, edward snowden will start a live web chat. he has done this before. last summer with the guardian. but this time, the q&a is hosted by the free snowden website. the former nsa worker strongly denies new allegations that he is a russian spy. he's also expected to give his first public response to president obama's surveillance speech from friday. plus, some questions have been coming in using #asksnowden, so we will listen live once that gets good. in an exclusive interview, u.s. attorney general eric holder said he is open to some sort of resolution with snowden. ari will be back tomorrow with that entire interview exclusively here on "the cycle." but for now, the doj is accusing a private contractor that vetted snowden of massive fraud. claiming the front conducted phony background checks. another news story, this one has to do with the nsa wiretapping program that revealed to the world an independent board
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created by congress has determined the program is illegal and should be stopped immediately. and that whatever information has been collected be deleted. the board has reiterated a conclusion we have heard before. the program has had only a "minimal impact in the war on terror," and that's where we start today, as we wait to hear from edward snowden. for that, we have the business insider's josh barro, who is now an exclusive msnbc contributor. >> whoo! >> good to be here. >> congratulations. >> congrats, josh. >> thank you. >> so this big report declare dallas the nsa did collect phone data illegally. you also have president obama who acknowledged edward snowden in his speech. aren't we talking about two different things, what snowden did and how he did it? >> well, we are talking about two different things. i don't think the board necessarily validates him. first of all, this board isn't a court. the law has been upheld repeatedly by the fisa court. and congress had an opportunity to vote to stop these programs
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back last summer. and it got defeated in the house of representatives. so i think the question we really need to talk about is whether the collection program is a good policy. it's not up to the board to decide whether or not it's legal. >> you know, josh, one of the things that abby pointed out in that story is that the board is not only recommending that the wiretapping or the surveillance programs be stopped, but that they completely junk, get rid of all of the data that has been collected, and to my mind, that seems like you're going way too far on the other end. is it possible that in reaction to snowden's revelations and what we know about nsa surveillance, that the pendulum could swing completely too far the other direction. >> i think that's possible, but i'm not really worried about that at that point. i think part of the key point the board made when they were talking about policy recommendations was they're saying it's difficult to find examples of where these practices were actually useful in furthering u.s. intelligence objectives and keeping us safe. i think this is a theme we see with a lot of these programs.
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we've even seen it in new york city with the practices the nypd is doing with surveillance of muslims in new york city. very often when you say well look, this program has civil liberties impacts. it's expensive. people view it as intrusive with their privacy. where is the demonstration that this is producing value and protecting people, and the government has come up short on that. but again, that's a question for congress to be considering. i think the valuable thing edward snowden has done has gotten us to talk about that more. but congress, they've been reluctant even to rein in the phone records conversation. i think the policy impact so far has been pretty limited. i'm certainly not at a point of worrying we've had an overreaction. >> josh, you've been arguing pretty provocatively that edward snowden should face jail time, that he should face a lengthy prison sentence. and in making that argument, you argue that he has done damage, and you say if you think our intelligence agency shouldn't need to keep their operations secret, and therefore snowden's disclosures were not damaging, then you are endorsing a very
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radical critique of u.s. foreign policy. and i think that's right. we're hearing now more and more from public intellectuals and from members of congress this very sort of black and white language around the nsa and around disclosure. and you almost get the sense that they feel that there shouldn't be anything that's kept secret. >> yeah. that's certainly the sense i get from snowden, when you hear him talk about spying, it's not that he thinks that we've overreached in the way that nsa listens to ordinary americans. he seems to think that spying is in and of itself immoral. i think the focus we have focus on a couple of these disclosures, especially related to the nsa collection of phone records, which have been a real value in driving the public discourse. but he disclosed a lot of other information. like the way that the united states spied on the russian prime minister during the g-20 meetings in london in 2009. various information about ways that we've collected information within china, about the chinese. these are perfectly valid and appropriate uses of the nsa and
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our other intelligence agencies. so if snowden's disclosures have been a lot more limited to these few topics with driven policy discussions, i think there would be a strong argument that he's really just a whistleblower, someone who acted in the public interest, even though what he's doing is illegal and he deserves to come back with a slap on the wrist. the problem is he did all these other things of no clear policy value that were damaging to u.s. interests abroad. >> what would you say to those who would say there's no evidence that the information he disclosed has harmed our national security or led to a terrorist attack? >> well, i think people are defining harm very narrowly there. it's harm saying there was a disclosure of this information and it led directly to somebody dying. we haven't had a demonstration of that. but it undermines all sorts of u.s. diplomatic objectives. the germans know that we tapped the phone of angela merkel, and we probably shouldn't have done that. but given that we did it, it was in u.s. interest for that information not to be disclosed. and there were various other things that were not untoward from a u.s. policy perspective
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but causing prediction either with allies or with strategic competit competitors. if you say none of that is really important, it's not harmful if we fray relations with all these other countries we deal with, then you're saying that the whole diplomatic apparatus is not important, it is not important that we maintain a positive image for the u.s. and the world or that we maintain positive relations with all these other countries. so i think there are clear negative intangible effects from the fact that you have all these disclosures and it's a really fairly radical thing to say that broadly it doesn't matter whether all this information about spy operations and diplomatic operations is kept secret. >> i think you're right that there's negative intangibles. it's easy to say we haven't had a terrorist attack, therefore this hasn't harmed us. but if we have methods of snooping on folks, methods of pushing back terrorists and suddenly the folks on the other side know what we're doing, we can no longer use those techniques, so that is of material harm to us. and i also want to pick up one thing you were saying before about look, as far as the nsa is
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dealing with the rest of the globe, we have living in a global culture where that may be something necessary. fareed zakaria talks about this in "time" magazine today. the u.s. government, its business is its people, is under massive sustained surveillance from an infiltration by criminals, terrorists and foreign governments. it would be impossible to defend against these attacks without allowing intelligence agencies to spy on foreign governments and groups abroad. it seems as far as the interface with the rest of the globe, not with our own citizens, but with the rest of the globe, given where technology is today, we need to be doing these things. >> i think that's right, certainly at least to a degree. i don't know exactly how much of it we should be doing. i think that's the policy discussion we should be having. we just need to acknowledge that there's a tradeoff here, that when we back off from that, there will be things that our intelligence agencies will not know anymore and threats that they will have less ability to protect against. and one thing i worry about is i view a lot of this as an alternative to things like actually engaging in foreign
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wars, to the extent that we have a smart intelligence apparatus that identifies threats and nips them in the bud is less likely that we're in a position where politicians are then tempted to invade somewhere after a conflict emerges. >> i do think it's fair to say that we would not likely be having this debate and we would not know certainly as much about these programs as we do if it were not for edward snowden. how much do you think the public -- that public opinion has been shifted by edward snowden, by the revelations and by the discussion that we're having now? >> well, i think it's been significant. i think there has been a significant positive impact from what he did. i don't think it's a completely unmixed bag. it's just that he did so many other negative things that i'm not inclined to let him off the hook. what i would say about that is while we are talking about this extensively and people are on some theoretical level unset about nsa surveillance and snooping, i think this is one of those issues that leads to periodic outrages, but then nobody goes into the ballot box
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and actually votes on this issue. i think that's part of why people in washington have been able to get away with doing very little substantive policy change, even though we've had so much discussion of this issue over the last year. it's not a left-right issue. it's not something that republicans or democrats have been able to gain a political advantage on. so i think it remains to be seen that there will be actual changes in the way the u.s. conducts foreign policy or even surveillance as a result of this. >> the administration has been struggling to figure out how do you deal with someone like snowden. as i said earlier in the segment, ari sat down with attorney general eric holder earlier. what we're hearing is that he's going to be willing to work on a resolution with edward snowden. josh, i want your reaction to this. is this something that surprises you and where do you think this goes? >> it doesn't surprise me. i'm trying to remember who it was. someone wrote a good piece a few weeks ago saying even terrible criminals get plea bargains. so the fact that edward snowden seems to have done a very bad thing doesn't mean that the government shouldn't negotiate with him, shouldn't necessarily cut some sort of deal with him. i think that it would be good to
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get him out of russia. we don't know what else he might do to the extent that he's outside the united states. so i'm glad to hear the administration's pursuing that. but, i mean, who knows what the terms of that deal might be. whether there's a gap that can be bridged between what sort of punishment snowden might be willing to face if he came back to the u.s. and what the administration would be willing to give up. >> we will keep everyone posted on this live. thank you so much. congratulations again on officially joining the msnbc group. >> thanks a lot, everybody. up next, athletes who have trained their entire lives for the olympics worried about more than winning gold. we'll talk sochi and terror as "the cycle" rolls on for thursday, january 23rd. your home's the place everyone gathers. so be ready with a stouffer's lasagna. it's the mouthwatering recipe that keeps them coming back. stouffer's. made with care for your family. which 4g lte map
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cycpsyccycling now, growing concerns just two weeks from the start of the olympic games. we've been hearing more and more about three women in particular, members of the so called black widows, a group tied to a decade of terror in the country, they're threatening attacks at the games. as russian officials put finishing touches on the olympic venue, they're down playing the threat, calling it a provocation and a hoax. but that's no comfort to american athletes and their families, include one u.s. snowboarder who believes even the possibility of an attack is enough to dampen the spirit of the games. >> i'm just going to stay in my zone, do my thing and get out of there. >> richard engel has made it to sochi. he has more from inside that so called ring of steel. an area the russians have
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guaranteed as safe. >> this is the main cluster of stadiums on the black sea where everything takes place here. this is a large park. it feels like a convention center. it is heavily guarded. the entire area surrounded by check points and fences, to come in here you have to have your bags searched. you need multiple -- there will be multiple i.d. checks. you have to wear a badge. once you leave this enclosed perimeter, you drive about 30 miles up a windy mountain road. that is another protected venue, harder to protect because it's in the mountains. here on the coast, everything is flat, ringed in by fence. up in the mountains, there are fences as well. but because of the hills and valleys, it's naturally just hard to protect. these are the two security zones that russia is hoping to secure
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during these games, which terrorists are hoping to attack. russia has about 40,000 troops and police and intelligence personnel that are watching this entire area. also drones, russia has said it is directing satellites over this area. it is collecting internet and data communications. russia is putting a lot of manpower and technology to try and secure this place. the question is will the terrorists bother. they say they're going to attack, but will they bother trying to come here. there is still that outstanding question about the black widows, as far as we know, according to wanted posters, there are still five suspected suicide bombers, two men, three women somewhere on the loose. >> thanks, richard. joining us is ronan farrow. great to have you at the table. it's an interesting dynamic
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going on between u.s. and russia, obviously a very complicated relationship. and they're coming together to fight a common enemy, the terrorists. and on one end, you think that's good to be humbling for putin and for russia to have to ask united states for help. they very much consider themselves a super power. but the alternative is something happening on the world stage, which would be far more embarrassing than not getting the help now. >> that point of pride is exactly the issue here in terms of what a diplomatic challenge this presents. this arrives at a time of high tensions for russia and united states. we have the dialogue about snowden unfolding. we have the dialogue about syria unfolding and not well. and russia playing an integral role in supporting the regime in syria at a time when america is pushing back on it. comes at a time when they couldn't be less welcome for all parties. >> let me touch on that syria point you brought up. john kerry said something
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interesting about that, which says we cannot have assad continue in power. >> bashar assad will not be part of that transition government. there is no way, no way possible in the imagination that the man who has led the brutal response to his own people could regain the legitimacy to govern. >> i understand what the secretary of state is saying. bashar assad has been horrible, beyond horrible, perhaps criminal in his behavior. but what if deposing him is not actually best for syria? we've seen several arab countries that are used to dictators, have been deposed and then the country falls into chaos. democracy doesn't just take hold easily in all the these sort of places. so what if getting rid of assad is not actually best for the transition? shouldn't we hold our options a little more open? >> and by the way, that's part of the rationale that russia is employeeing here. the status quo is safer, because the alternatives are unknown. we don't know what's behind door
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number two here. so in this case, russia has a large number of interests at stake in syria. they have a long history of engagement in the country. they have a large expatriot population in syria. and they are bent on seeing assad stay, even though i think they realize that it's costing them in terms of their international capital. but they're not just supporting him in word. the death count now ranks in the hundreds of thousands. so they're not only contributing to destabilization on the ground, they're also weighing in on this diplomatic process that's become increasingly fraught. and tyra banks frankly, it's tu something farcical. we saw the invitation and disinatidi disinvitation of iran. and assad and his allies are
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manipulating the process to their ends. >> certainly one of the greatest concerns from a u.s. perspective about syria is that it's going to become a totally failed state. it's already halfway there. and a breeding ground for terrorists. secretary of state john kerry said something interesting actually about what he saw as the root of terrorism recentism let's listen to that. >> this issue of poverty was in many cases the root cause of terrorism or even the root cause of the disenfranchisement of millions of people on this planet. >> the data on this is sparse and not totally reliable. that said, my portfolio in the united states government at the state department was working on the radicalization of young people in places stricken by war
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and poverty, like afghanistan. and what i saw anecdotally is that absolutely when young people who as young americans are are desperate for a job and a way to make their voices heard have neither of those things, they will turn to the alternatives and sometimes those are violent, and we need to look no further than the successful terror groups around the world to see exactly how close the link is between poverty and terror. hamas spends a majority of its resources s on social welfare programs. the taliban operates schools that feed and clothe and educate people. this is how they garner their appeal. >> all right, ronan, thank you so much for joining us. >> always good to be here. next time, more fun. more bieber. >> more justin bieber. yes, we would love to get your thoughts on bieber next time. that would be fun. up next, speaking of bieber, story so talkable we are getting in on the entertainment beat. a crisis of faith for the believers.
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more than half the country is under a windchill warning right now as the polar vortex plunges south once again. by this time next week, many areas could actually see temperatures colder than the first time around. >> just in time for super bowl saturday. even i know that's not right. if the weather does not cooperate, the big game is played at metlife stadium in new jersey, new jersey officials could call an audible. a little football reference there. either a couple days earlier or a day later. the only thing we know for sure is it will be the seahawks and the broncos, because jonathan told me that. a stunning reversal in virginia is the latest victory in the fight for marriage equality. attorney general, a democrat
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announced today he will not defend the state's same-sex marriage ban when it heads to federal court next week. this marks the latest in a rapid string of viblctories for same-x couples and for america. courts struck down similar bans in utah and oklahoma. >> can you believe it? justin bieber -- look at this video. it is not exactly showing that he is down in the dumps. that is really surprising. he was busted by miami beach police after a night of clubbing. cops say he was drag racing in a yellow lamborghini with an expired license and he also failed a sobriety test. the miami beach police chief claims bieber cursed at officers, resisted arrest, admitted to popping pills and smoking marijuana. >> but he smiled in the mug shot. >> let's get more from mark potter. he's outside miami beach headquarters. he's only 19 years old, but these are really serious
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charges. what happens next? >>. >> reporter: these are actually just misdemeanors. they might be serious charges elsewhere, but in this state, all of those charges are misdemeanors, dui, resisting arrest without violence and driving with an expired license. that's why he got out of jail so easily. $2,500 bond. he walked out of jail, you might have seen the scene. he got up on the car. he waved to the crowd. he did that thing. got in the car. and then a four-car convoy then took a circuitous really bizarre route up north to the east, back to miami five south, and now if you're able to see that video, they are making their way right back here to miami beach, the scene of the arrest early this morning. he was drag racing in the 4:00 hour. going about 55 to 60 miles an hour in an area, a residential
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area where the posted speed limit is about half that. as you said, police said he gave them a hard time. he was arrested, they brought him here, where the police chief said he then calmed down finally. and he acted better and he confessed to them that he had consumed alcohol, marijuana, and prescription drugs. the three charges i said, dui, resisting arrest without violence and driving with an expired license that was issued in georgia. at the hearing this afternoon, he appeared by videotape talking to a judge who released him on bond. his lawyer at that hearing was none other than roy black, the famed lawyer from south florida who said that he was hired by bieber's manager. at that time, he had not yet talked to the pop star. and when a rather smart alecy reporter asked him if he could name a bieber song, he like in m in that same generation said he would have to take the fifth. so we'll see what happens tonight.
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he's coming right back here to miami beach. >> mark potter, thanks so much. justin bieber, i don't know, this guy thinks he is god. you see him after all this happens, jumping up on the car, smiling, waving to people. in a way, he's a very talented young man. he's only 19 years old, and he had -- has maybe still the potential to be like a justin timberlake where you have a long-lasting career. but when i see this happen, it actually makes me very sad for him. because it's clear that, you know, he is like so many others that get fame very, very quickly at a young age that end up falling into this crowd that are terrible examples. i mean, it's really about who you surround yourself with. it's your inner circle. we see it time and time again. you look at lindsay lohan. they all have mug shots. amanda bynes. pretty. novak djokovic. macaulay culkin. it almost breaks your heart. you say what does it say about this culture and the influence, the people you surround yourself
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with. it doesn't look like he's changing any time soon, which is part of the problem. >> i think that getting that level of fame at such a young age really does have a corrosive effect on people. it's not good for kids to get this message that they can do no wrong and have everything at their disposal. >> it's not natural. >> it's not natural and it's not good for them. one thing that my husband and i have discussed, not that my daughter is on the cusp of stardom, but we discussed if she were asked to be in a big movie, would we let her? would we let her go down that path? what do you say for your kids? >> i would let them. yes, celebrity is corrosive. that first job, that second job is not going to get you to the level of fame that's going to potentially ruin your life and put you in a bieber type situation or a culkin type situation. but i would let my child move into the entertainment business if that's what he or she wanted. i wouldn't be shocked if my daughter wanted to go in that
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direction. fairly typical teen transgressions. just doing it on a higher level because the world is watching. he's got tons of money. he is surrounded perpetually by people who are on his payroll or they're his friends because they get something out of being around him. >> they don't care about him or his future. >> they can't say no to him or don't want to say no to him. i've heard this story so many times before. you listen to a bunch of folks. i think about it in terms of music business, britney spears, kirk cobain. sometimes they fall off a cliff. sometimes they don't. also i want to point out in terms of the charges that he's facing, he should also get felony tackiness for a very yellow lamborghini. who does that? >> to your point, justin bieber is doing -- this is typical teenage behavior. he's on a global stage. he's doing this all in public.
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if you were justin bieber to some neighborhood kid, we really wouldn't care. i wonder, where are his parents? where is the parental supervision? >> father is not part of the picture. mother is too young to check him. >> who has written a book about motherhood. >> oh, great. >> it took me back to one of michael jackson's court appearances where he jumped on his suv. chris rock complained about him dancing and looking like cap'n crunch. at least bieber kept it brief, waved, got back in a car. >> he knows this is not going to cost him. >> it is incredible. and they stand by his side no matter what he does. this is not the first we'll see
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of this. up next, as rnc leaders huddle in washington for their annual strategy session, a longtime republican party faithful announces he is leaving the party over what he calls a tolerance of bigotry. we will talk to him right here on "the cycle" up next. hey kevin...still eating chalk for heartburn?
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hearty oatmeal, softly baked with a drizzle of cinnamon. it's a soft take on a morning classic. soft-baked oatmeal squares from nature valley. right now, the rnc annual win thor meeting is under way in washington, d.c. this event, a town hall showcasing the party's "rising stars", including chee ining ch, conservative activist allison howard, and alex smith, national chair of the college republicans. no chris christie. party leaders are discussing everything from strategies to the primary calendar for 2016. but the question remains whether they will tackle the biggest problem facing the party today,
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broadening its appeal for racial minorities to women and gay voters who decisively backed president obama in 2012. our next guest proves just how much work they really have left to do. last week, veteran gop operative and activist loudly parted ways with the republican party citing the "tolerance of bigotry." he is one of the co-founders of go proud, a conservative gay rights group and he joins us now from washington. thank you so much for joining us. >> hi, thanks for having me. >> tell us about your journey. why leave the party at this moment? >> well, it has been a journey. it was during the 2012 election when i realized just how big the problem was. you mentioned the main reason i left the party is the tolerance of bigotry. and i saw how mitt romney was held hostage and paralyzed with
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fear of retribution from the forces of intolerance in the party. even as the party has become more tolerant and more inclusive, there's still an element, a small but very powerful element of anti-gay, anti-muslim forces that are holding the party back. the romney campaign -- they have every type of person on their stage at the convention except for a gay person and a muslim. there are many, many other examples. but then after the election, i thought okay, they're doing an autopsy. they're going to make the changes that are needed. i came to realize the changes that have to happen aren't
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messages, aren't policies, they're cultural. i honestly think that it's just too late for the republican party, and i don't think that they're ever going to win a national election again. they've lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential races. and so if i've determined that they can't win the biggest prize, then what's the point? >> jimmy, that's absolutely right. and i applaud you for coming here. i want to get into your heart. there is tremendous animosity toward gay people. no one can free up this infamous moment from the debates. >> in 2002 when i was deployed to iraq, i had to lie about who i was because i'm a gay sole di. i didn't want to lose my job. my question is, do you intend to circumvent the progress we've made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military?
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>> and you hear the booing there. how did it feel to be in a party that didn't accept you? >> well, i was there that night in florida at that debate. i've been embarrassed dozens of times at the way some in the republican party treat gay people. and now i don't have to be embarrassed. the rest of america has moved on from that issue. everyone has a gay person in their life and they know better. and so the republican party has decided to be wrong on that issue, and tolerate something that most americans don't tolerate. and that's why they won't win elections anymore. >> hey, jimmy, in a piece that you wrote, you have a quote here that i want to read and i'm not sure i can actually say this word, so -- >> uh-oh. >> he talks a good game, but he doesn't have the cajones to do
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what it takes to actually change things. it's actually that he doesn't have the balls to do what it takes to change things. jimmy, you said in your first answer that it's too late for the republican party, basically that the party is over. so who has balls within the republican party to actually change things? is there anyone within the republican party who can actually stop the skid here? >> need to tell them that they need to change or leave, but they're not willing to risk losing those voters in order to gain multitudes. it could be the most champion politician. you could have the best politician and nobody's going to be able to overcome that until they're willing to cut the cancer out of the party.
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>> and jimmy, this is an issue. as a republican, i've spoken out about as well. i was at that debate, too. my dad was up on that stage. i remember that being a very difficult moment and my dad being one of the first governors to evolve on this issue. it actually surprises me that they're not evolving faster because there's a conservative argument to be made around family values and around equality under the law. it seems the problem is separating political believes with religious believes. have you sensed that? >> a little bit. but at the end of the day, political parties are about winning elections. and on the gay specific issues, we've gone past the tipping point in this country. a majority of americans support americans and accept gay people into their lives. and now a growing majority even supports civil marriage for gay couples. the forces of intolerance have been lost, so you don't win
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elections by kowtow to losers. if you kowtow to losers, you're going to lose. >> great line. thank you so much for joining us today. >> thanks a lot. up next, one attorney's passions on full display. if that's not a tease, i don't know what is. o stop by the house to grab a few things. you stopped by the house? uh-huh. yea. alright, whenever you get your stuff, run upstairs, get cleaned up for dinner. you leave the house in good shape? yea. yea, of course. ♪ [ sportscaster talking on tv ] last-second field go-- yea, sure ya did. [ male announcer ] introducing at&t digital life. personalized home security and automation. get professionally monitored security for just $29.99 a month. with limited availability in select markets. ♪
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more, the more you'll see that i just love art. great art jolts the mind. there aren't many chances to get art into the show. this may seem random, but bear with me, because this to my mind is quite a thrill. a few months ago at a party i met a legendary artist named chuck close. he was a widely known artist before his spinal artery collapse left him paralyzed waistdown. he's also on the left side of the political spectrum and an msnbc fan. so we got to talking, and i asked him if i could maybe go by his studio one day and interview him. and he said yes. i just wanted to find out how he does what he does so well, and today, my man chuck close is in the guest spot. >> i want to make an image, i don't want you to walk by it and not notice it.
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there was a jackson pollack. wasn't that big. it was about this big. but it had lots of colors of house paint. tar. gravel. by the end of the week, i was dribbling paint all over my representational paintings. and the whole rest of my life, i've tried to have experiences in art that are that shocking. >> can you just explain to people a little bit your method, your process? >> basically, i always do one thing. i take photographs and i take them myself. and i take them since 1975, i've been taking them with a big polaroid camera. pretty much the size of a volkswagen that you shove in someone's face and take pictures. the prime motivating factor was that i have face blindness. when i was a kid in kindergarten, by the end of the first year, i had no idea who any of the kids were.
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nor did i remember their names. so i knew i had a problem. i was driven to make these paintings out of a need to commit images of people that i care about. to memory. >> a lot of your work is self-portraits, over and over and over. but it doesn't strike me as an egotistical or narcissistic gesture. >> the more you talk about me, it may change. first of all, i want you to look at it from a distance. i hope i knock your socks off. and then you go to like a middle distance where you can scan the whole thing. and then i want to suck you right up to the painting, where i made all the decisions, because i don't actually go back and look at it. and i want you to see the methodology of my process. and it's just colored dirt, smeared on a flat surface. that's the magic of painting. >> tell me about barack obama's
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face. >> we had to go to a hotel and we had a very small room with a very large camera, and three of us. and the secret service couldn't come in. they had to stay out in the hall. then later, would keep coming in. mr. president, you're supposed to be across the street. it's the congressional picnic. and they're all, like, on the lawn waiting for you to show up. i said all these people who are trying to get my job -- this was before the second term -- they're at my house eating my food. and they'll want me to take pictures with their children. he says, i'm in no hurry to get over there. so he e really was very personal. and i told the world so everyone would know he did that. >> that notion of what ought to be or could be is so often i think, you know, part of the
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conversation between the artist and the audience and the artist saying why not this? >> i think very early on i decided i was going to accept anything an artist said they made. i thought if it's art, i don't have to like it, but it's art. but when you say i like it, it isn't art, what happens when you change your mind? the work of art doesn't change. you change. you just feel differently about it now and see something you didn't see before. and don't you think in all things seeing something you didn't see before is one of the great experiences of being alive. >> lots of cool stuff to talk about for a second in there. interesting he talked about jackson pollack as an initial influence because he's sort of a
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post-warhol sort of guy, been talked about the mayor of the art world because for a long time he painted the faces of everybody in the art world but now expanding, saw kate moss, lou reed, of course barack obama, bill clinton he's painted before, a huge hillary clinton fan. really cool guy. >> it's amazing to think he does not remember faces or names the way we do but what he can actually do with his artistic ability. you look at barack obama and just his mouth, for example. it's tiny little squares if you look up close and some of those squares are the opposite color of teeth. they're gray or whatever, and it ends up working out perfectly. the shadow for the actual picture. it's amazing. >> when i was first falling in love with his work and seeing these gigantic photorealist paintings and you look at it from 30 feet away, you're like it looks like a photograph. you get up close and say i can't believe it's a painting. extraordinary work. thanks so much to chuck close and everyone in the studio who
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made that happen. chuck's got a big solo exhibition in new york in march called chuck close nudes. we've put details op our facebook page. up next, what abby sees as the future of the republican party. she called it ubertarianism. [ female announcer ] with five perfectly sweetened whole grains... you can't help but see the good.
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personalized coverage and savings. all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? as most of you viewers know i'm a utah girl. as you might imagine when i moved out to west philadelphia to go to college, my eyes were wide opened. there were so many things this western girl in cowboy boots had
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never seen before, some quite disturbing but others pretty darn amazing. one of the things i fell in love with uz was the ecosystem of food trucks that surrounded my campus. buoy's known for its classic ham and egg sandwich. steak queen of course. and don't forget the chinese food truck which was not to be confused with leon because your stomach would definitely know the difference. but what the heck does this have to do with anything? well, you probably haven't noted or heard about it yet, but there a new rising political class bubbling up around the country and it could very well be the future of the gop. it's called ubertarianism. you heard that right. erin described the trend amazingly well, "many of our major cities are home to a growing and curious breed, progressive young professionals who bemoan the city's income inequality one instant and approach a black limo the next asking, are you my uber?"
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referencing the popular car service. i know this might sound like satire but it's a pretty real thing. something the republicans should take note of. young people identify well the many the message that the government shouldn't stifle innovation, that government shouldn't get in the way of new creative ways of doing business, and that this is at the core of what makes our country great and different. so whether it's my favorite food truck in philadelphia or a group of yuppies taking a black car out to dinner, young people will not stand for nonsensical regulation getting in the way of their progress. and of course this all plays into the fact that public opinion continues to evolve as millennials make up a larger portion of the electorate. for the most part we support gay marriage, legalizing pot and generally less groft. we are progressive in a lot of ways but also feel very strongly about economic liberty. there is a reason why the average age of ron paul supporters was between 18 and
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24. so here's the real deal on ubertarianisms, or the reagan democrats of the 21st century. we might not swing elections yet but the tial wave continues to build. young people realize how regulation affects their life, health care, starring a new business or tax, it extend well past food trucks and car services and we republicans would be smart to bring them under our at the present time. maybe our gop food truck will provide a new food dish for political thought. okay. that does it for "the cycle." alex wagner, all yours. >> mike huckabee wants women to control their libido, but can mike huckabee control his own mouth? thursday,ian 23rd, and this "now." >> at its winter meeting in washington, the republican national committee -- >> the democrats' successful ongoing narrative of the war on women. step one, get more vocal about
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abortion. >> the rnc is saying let's call in the offensive. >> this is the time the religious right are reasserting themselves. >> republicans delayed the meeting so people could go to the march for life. >> tax funding payer for abortion. >> the democratic platform is to support killing babies. >> the democrats want to insult the women of america by making them believe that they are help lels because they cannot control their libido or reproductive system without the help of the government. >> this is a winning issue. >> democrats think that women are nothing more than helpless and hopeless creatures whose only goal in life is to have the government provide for the birth-control medication. >> just when you thought the republican party's open antagonism towards women and their reproductive organs could not get any more hostile, hours ago talk show host, former governor, and failed presidential candidate mike huckabee took it upon himself to

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