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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  May 22, 2014 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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it's more important to take care of our vets that are in need of care. well, thanks for voting and please continue the conversation on our facebook and twirt pages. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. boomerang, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. could the weapons the gop forces use to pummel democrats this year blow back in their faces come 2016? could the battle cries, obama care, benghazi and the outright rejection of immigration reform and a minimum wage hike be the very weapons that can be fired away at the republicans two years from now when the battlefield is wide and the american voters are looking, not
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for issues that ignite and anger, but for a leard in a cause that can truly unite the country. put more sharply, even as they try to hide the tea party extremist, could the party of ted cruz and sarah palin who tries to win with hatred this november portray themselves as the nation's savior when it has to take on hillary clinton? michael steele is twas the chairman of the republican party and joan walsh. both are msnbc political analysts. the campaigns may yield dividends in the midterms, but those battle cries on issues range from the affordable care act to benghazi and even minimum wage may cost the party come 2016 and here's why. republicans have made killing the affordable care about a corner stone of their midterm campaigns but now more than 22 people are projected to enroll by 2016. at that point, running a campaign to kill or even damage the law isn't such a winning
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message, is it? then there's benghazi, another potential lapped mine for republicans. even conservatives see only trouble for republicans on that issue. here's krauthammer earlier this month on fox. >> this is 2014. the win winds are right behind the republicans approaching the election on all the major issues. obamacare, the issues are on the republican side. benghazi hearings can only distract from this at best. and really wreck it at worst if they turn into a partisan circus. >> and then there are the party's structural problems. with demographic, made worse by the fact that immigration reform is going nowhere in the congress. the hispanic population of this country has risen by 50% in the past decade and as charles cook notes, during that time, republicans have effectively purged millions of minority voters from their own
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congressional districts, thanks to gerrymandering. and lastly, there's the father's stonewalling on a minimum wage increase. over the past month, a number of prominent republicans, including presidential contenders from 2012 have come forward, essentially begging their party to back an increase in the minimum wage. >> for all the republicans who come on and talk about, you know, we're for the blue collar worker, the working person, there's some basic things we should be for. one is reasonable increases from time to time in the minimum wage. >> let's not make that argue thamt we're for the blue collar guy but we're against any minimum wage increase ever. it just makes no sense. >> i think we ought to raise it. our party is all about more jobs and better pay. and i think communicating that is important to us. >> joan, i want to talk about the nature of our democracy. this's a couple of things easy to understand. one is presidential election years are different because everybody votes. if you're an american and you even care at all about the country, you're going to show up
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for a presidential year. midterms it's narrower, tends to be older, more conservative electorate. perhaps having more anger than hope in its heart. the republicans are building these campfires around issues like benghazi. i wonder if the question here, when you reach the larger electorate, younger, more optimistic, broader intellectually and broader ied i don't imaginically, ain't going to work. wait a minute, aren't you the party of benghazi, that doesn't like minimum wage, abortion rights, that doesn't like same-sex marriage. you're that party and you're claiming you want to unite this country? >> i think it's kind of sad. i don't think the republican party is ready to be a national party anymore. certain figures are arguing in one direction, but the leadership is really going backwards. what i really saw tuesday night, congratulations mitch mcconnell, we've got to acknowledge that some sea party folks really went down who might have won in 2010 or even 2012. so there's some way the, quote, establishment vindicated the tea party, but what they've really
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done, it's such an incredibly backwards looking strategy. and what you saw on stage tuesday night, chris, was the democrating party really looking towards its future in the person of allison lundegren grimes and michelle nunn. we had a black president. i hope we have a woman president. the democratic party a few yankees ago, that was scary to the democratic party, too. i want you to think about 2006 when democrats bragged that they did recruit a lot of macho dems. what's that rahm emanuel's deputy called them and feminists were told to kind of take a backseat and pipe down and don't complain because some of them were actually anti-choice. owhat a difference eight years have made and it's a democratic bet on the future of the country, on a younger rising diverse electorate, and women. and the republicans are still stuck looking backwards. >> so the democratic party is leaning forward? >> yes. that's the way to put it.
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>> thank you, michael. i don't know where you stand on this thing. i've studied these numbers, you have. you can win in a congressional district, you know, southern california can win on all those hot button issues. but can a republican presidential candidate read that same script and come back in 2016 and say yeah, we're open minded about abortion rights and certainly looking forward on the rights of gay people to marry. certainly in the future. but rewan all these crazy back in 2014 and, well, do we believe that stuff or not? that's the problem your party faces. >> it's not the party our party faps we have other issues but that's not necessarily it. the way you describe it, why don't we become democrats? if we have to adopt your agenda. >> do you think it's smart to focus on these issues like benghazi? they have a select committee on one issue. not unemployment. just benghazi. >> chris, chris, let me make my
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point. i know it' your shoe, bw, but le make my point. these things will get themselves worked out by a presidential process that will begin to unfold in 2015. our nominee will be the standard bearer, will define that conversation along the way. so i'm not ready to, you know, sort of cash in all my chips and say we're done. >> can the party that opposes immigration reform in 2014 as an issue claim to the country it's open to it in 2016. just one issue? >> we, i mean, you're making a blanket statement that we're opposing immigration reform. we need to drill down what that reform is. let's talk about the reform is. >> we've been talking about it. >> your party has comes the house of representatives and you haven't done squat. >> i haven't seen anything that harry reid passed either. >> there's a bill. there's a bill, michael. >> that's my point.
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let's have a conversation about what this reform looks like. it's not just about amnesty or this piece or that piece. >> michael, there is a comprehensive bill. >> you're projecting -- >> let me fin herb my point. you're projecting that our nominee, whoever that may be, won't have something to say on this subject. and i suggest that they will. if it's a jeb bush, absolutely. he will have something to say. >> that's a big if. that's a big if. >> i do. i'm the only one here that does. >> did she call you? she called you first. >> i do know. some things don't have to be spoken out loud to be true. >> i think joan, the analogy there, you were saying both parties are equally guilty of not moving on immigration reform. the senate is controlled by the democrats and they have an immigration bill. >> and they have significant republican support. >> the house is controlled by republicans and speaker boehner will not move unless he get
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asthma jorty of the republican conservatives. he won't do it. that's the problem. why don't you just admit you're wrong on this one, at least? >> just this one, michael. >> my point is i don't see this being a driver for democrats either at this point. this is not an ongoing conversation. there's still a whole lot of ground -- >> talk to john mccain about arizona. talk to senators who have to represent whole states, not just little areas of conservatism. >> chris, these elections are not going to turn on one issue like immigration. you know, look, you're sitting here thinking that republicans have their back against the wall on immigration. and i'll admit they probably do. but democrats do as well. because with hispanics and the deportation rate of this administration you know, over the last coup. of years, that's a real concern for them adds well. this is not a zero sum win for democrats. >> well, i mean, democrats have so much more of a progressive record on this. and yes, there is controversy over the deportations and yes, you know, the president is
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talking about dealing with it but, you know, a lot of that has been to bring republicans to the table and say okay, we're going to be really serious about border security. and michael, you know, you said you don't want to be a democrat. republicans shouldn't be democrats. agree with you. we need two parties and choices. but your party has walked away not only from its own positions on immigration reform, but from regularly increasing the minimum wage. you guys used to support that. from the individual mandate for health care reform. you guys used to support that. cap and trade. republican idea. the thing is that you guys have abandoned your own ideas and centrist democrats by and large have taken them. some progressives have some good ideas, too. >> in the words of president, we've evolved. >> let's take a look at this, michael. a group of conservatives have drafted its own strategy manifesto, warning the republican party that it will suffer if it continues to obsess over taking down president obama. in other words, in order to win, they have to stand for something.
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that's the targetme, the manifeo is an attempt to bring back middle class voters who have been alienated by the republican party. the focus is on replacing the new health law, for example, with tax credits for those who do not receive employer-based coverage. a tax overhaul that benefits middle class parents, and changes to the student loan system. this is all good stuff, michael, as an argument that you can't keep pounding the old drums of benghazi and irs and everything else. you can't keep pounding on obama as a person. >> absolutely. >> to kin the faith and hope, by the way, it's always about hope for ooirt party. about a better america. you have to get positive. do you agree? >> i agree 100%. this document, every conservative and like-minded individual in the country should read it. i think it's very smart. it's timely. and it's focused on the middle
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class and rebuilding not just in the economic realm, but across the board, having this national conversation without, as you just aptly put, all the noise that tends to distract from that conversation. so i think what they've done with the conservative manifesto is right on point. and i like to see more and more people look at this in a serious way and begin to connect the policies and the ideas to something real for people. i think it's really good, chris. >> professor, you have become more academic every moment. >> joan, i feel the spirit of allison lundegren grimes in your voice. i share it. i feel very strong now, and we'll talk at the end of the show about something new in northwestern politics that we saw tuesday knight. that excellent, excellent attack from a defensive position. okay, boys, you call me an empty dress, i got snoig say about that. that was so wonderfully executed tuesday night. >> it was. >> if she doesn't win, it won't be because sthe's not doing the
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right stuff. anyway, thank you. coming up, what was behind nancy pelosi, the former speaker's decision not to boycott that new committee investigating benghazi? it turns out hillary clinton's people were worried that an all-republican panel -- they wanted to have some cover there, people in the fight. also, the man who might just decide to take on hillary and give voice to the democratic left, if you will. we'll see what he has to say, the former governor of montana is going to join us. and medical marijuana, we meet the new jersey mom who believes marijuana oil could have saved her daughter's life. sabina rose died as new jersey governor chris christie was telling reporters he would never expand the medical marijuana program in the garden state. finally, let me finish tonight with what i just said. that masterful tactic that allison lundegren grimes showed us tuesday night. ska, they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america.
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>> wisconsin governor scott walker may be a 2016 contender but he needs to win re-election this year. walker is all tied up with his brattic challenger mary burke among registered voters. walker 46, burke 46. we know he's a fighter after fighting back big labor's attempts to recall him. [ ship horn blows ] no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... not so much. but that's okay -- you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?
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it also comes with public wifi for your customers. not so with internet from the phone company. i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi. switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business. democrats sharply debated whether to boycott the benghazi committee. the republicans announced their slate early this month, the democrats on the committee are certainly a serious group of heavyweights. there's elijah cummings, the ranking democrat on the oversight committee.
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adam smith on the armed services committee. a member of the intelligence committee, the ranking democrat on ethics. and tammy duckworth, an iraq war veteran. some democrats argue they should not appoint members and send a signal that the committee is a political farce. but there was one very strong person lobbying indirectly. hillary clinton's forces made it clear. hillary clinton's world was so worried about a republican investigation of the benghazi attacks they sent a message to house democrats, we need backup. house minority leader nancy pelosi publicly considered boycotting a pam, an idea that clinton supporters feared would leave the potential 2016 candidate, that's hillary, exposed to the enemy fire of house republicans. jack sherman joins us right now from politico along with jerry conley of virginia, not too far away. how close did this come from hillary?
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former secretary of state? >> this came from people very close to her. two members of congress and aides. and the main thing they were concerned about was hillary clinton walk into a room with seven republicans and zero democrats. and that would be basically as one member of congress put to me, they would have gotten a ton of sound bites out of that. it just wasn't a risk they were willing to take. >> was it a smart move for the leadership to decide you better there be? >> absolutely. you can't leave the field unguarded. the idea that there would be seven consecutive republicans asking questions of any democratic witness, whether it's hillary and john kerry or anybody, and no counternarrative from the democrats is untenable. >> tell me with the house rule, five-minute rule? how long does one member have to pummel in some cases? >> five minutes. >> so automatically, the other side gets a ball when you get a
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point. >> that's right. >> so there will always be a relief person coming in there. you can counter the narrative and say what that person said isn't true, sit, chris? and give you an opportunity to respond. >> what is their goal here? is it just noise? or do we say we think she wasn't at work that night. what is the home run here? i know it's a lot of talk. but what are they looking for? >> chris, i've been in myriad briefings and hearings including hillary cloin ton. and there's no "there" there. they know that. >> no. they just hope something might stick and they're playing to their base for the midterms. >> but what happens if they have air balls one after another? >> hasn't stopped them yet. they just move on to the next scandal. >> today, the u.s. congressman elijah cummings explained the rationale for taking part in the committee hearings. let's watch the ranking member.
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>> the fact is that we do believe that it's probably a witch hunt, but the fact is that we have to be in the room. i believe that secretary clinton can fend for herself, but the thing i'm also concerned about is when the republicans under issa would bring witnesses and present them before us, we never had any access to, and then if they are allowed andrea to say things and not be challenged. in other words, if there's not a search for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's a problem. >> do you have a sense -- i didn't know if this was true. do you have a sense that benghazi is all about hillary clinton? or is it obama? >> i don't think it started out that way. it clearly started out aimed at the president, maybe we could tarnish him before the 2012 election. i think it dawned on them, hey, maybe there's an opportunity to clip her if we can't get him, or maybe both. i don't think it's going to succeed. this was a tragedy purpose traited by terrorists in libya.
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it wasn't aided and abetted by anyone in the state department or anyone in the white house. and the facts show that. >> what are you able to report on that front. what is the cold mine here they're looking for, these republicans. >> i think it's important to note out that even house republican leadership, senior people in the republican party have told us that they're not exactly sure what the end game is. they don't have a best case scenario that, you know, we really hope to find x, y and z. basically boehner faced incredible political pressure inside of the capital in the building to do something like this. conservatives have been asking him for months, the four committees, mr. connelley sits on one of them, probes for months and they didn't get what they wanted. he faced internal press smurps and part of pelosi's decision here, if republicans were left on this committee alone, completely alone, they could take a deposition from a witness and release selective bits of it
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to make it seem like they're building a narrative that would work for them. that's extraordinarily dangerous. and a lot of senior democrats have said to me that the initial reaction from pelosi and many house democrats to boycott it, i mean, from across the board was an emotional one. they were like this committee is nonsense. we shouldn't take part in a sham. but then they kind of had to move towards this participation because strategically, you heard people like henry waxman who's a veteran of these investigations say we don't believe it's a good thing. we don't think anything is going to come of it, but if it's happening, we need to be there. >> alan west who can be a little bit wild was asked about the democrats' motives for participating in the committee. he said they were being calculating. one by one the knocked the democrats as taking part as individuals. but it was his comments about tammy duckworth, the severely wounded combat veteran in iraq that has raised some eyebrows. listen to what this former congressman had to say about a
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veteran. >> the last person, tammy duckworduc duckworth, you know, i just don't know where her loyalties lie. you know, for her to have been a veteran, a wounded warrior from the united states army, she should know this is not the right thing. and hopefully, you know, she will remember the oath of office she took as an army officer and not have allegiance to the liberal progressives of the democratic party. >> elijah cummings slammed west for those remarks as she should have. >> he should be ashamed of himself. i look at tammy and i know of all the things that she's been through. and sometimes she comes in the hearing room in her wheelchair and struggling. struggling just to get to her seat. and somebody to have the audacity to say something like
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that upsets me to the nth degree. >> it's like what they did to max cleeland who lost limbs in the wars. >> she left both legs behind fighting for the country and has the american flag on one of her prosthetic legs. >> i saw that today. >> to question her loyalty is the most reprehensible thing i can think of. but it does underscore that the far right cannot conceive that somebody could have a different point of view. >> i'm a worst case scenario guy. i like to figure out the worst case. i think they're trying to say to secretary clinton or the president, they weren't looking out for the country. they didn't care. that's in their heads. that they wouldn't care. she was afraid of the guy. she was afraid of chris stevens. these right wingers don't know who the guy was. he was a pal. they're going for evil. i like that word sometimes. >> i think they're going to come up with a dry hold, though. >> we'll see. if they're really smart, they would put it on live at nighttime so they could have it on fox every night on prime
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time. fox would probably carry it. good work there for politico. coming up, republicans have been struggling with women voters, but surely they can do better than they did in colorado where they turned the debate into the dating game. that's coming up where it belongs in "the side show." those little things still get you.
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she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ >> your choice, a cowboy, a curmudgeon, a biker or a normal guy. take your pick. thank you very much. we're leaving it up to you. >> yeah. who invited the normal guy? you got a cowboy, a curmudgeon and an old kook. they were one construction worker away from break into ymca.
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>> time now for "the side show." as you just saw, idaho's former biker kandahar vie brown had one last hurrah on t"the colbert report" last night. in a subcommittee hearing on wildlife earlier this week. on tuesday, the defenders of wildlife testified on the deteriorating condition of oil pipes in the national wildlife refuges in louisiana. to make his point, he showed photographs of leaky pipes and oil drums that had been plugged with garbage bags and duct tape to prevent oil from spill into the refuge. vance mcallister was far from outrage. not only did he defend the makeshift repairs he called them innovative. >> you took a picture of someone who was innovaiv elevatorive an
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rather than leaving it to drip on the ground, repaired it with a duct tape and a go ahead badge bag, yet you seem to be upset with that. we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. >> he's better known these days as the kissing congressman, a moniker he earned after being caught on a security camera, there he is, with a married staffer. next up, if colorado republicans hope to draw more women into the party, they proved on tuesday night that they've got a long way to go. the republican moderator of a primary that made for governor kicked off with a request that the panelists who were all women take their seats in front of the candidates who were all men. the moderator who once served as the president of the state senate seemed to think it would be funny if he played the theme music from "the dating game" as those women panelists sat down. >> the moderator failed to implore the ladies to come and
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seat themselves at the panel table at the beginning. it's so much more ornamental if the three or four of you would be on the stage with four of us. we're supposed to have a little of the dating game theme right now. the idea was that -- there it is. bachelor one, bachelor two, baf lor three. >> i'm not sure if everyone was necessarily in on that joke. up next, a democrat who could mount a populous challenge against pihillary clinton in 20 16. honestly, the off-season ist really off for me. i've got a lot to do. that's why i got my surface. it's great for watching game film and drawing up plays. it's got onenote, so i can stay on top of my to-do list, which has been absolutely absurd since the big game. with skype, it's just really easy to stay in touch with the kids i work with. alright, russell you are good to go! alright, fellas. alright, russ. back to work!
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powerful storms have rumbled up the east coast. meanwhile in arizona, the slide fire has destroyed nearly 5,000 acres and continues to burn out of control. embattled va chief eric shinseki have assured veterans that if allegations of misconduct proved true, he will act. and president obama flew to new york state to speak about jobs and tourism during a visit to the baseball hall of fame, he said when it comes to tourism, the u.s. has a great product to sell. now we take you back to "hardball." "the wall street journal" says brian schweitzer auditions as hillary clinton's populous challenger. there is is a lane open, many believe, to the left of clinton
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for schweitzer or some other progressive candidate to occupy in 2016. he doesn't rule out challenging clinton herself and he's been saying the kind of things candidates say when they think of take on a front-runner. he's criticized her for everything from her support with iraq war to her close wall street connections. joining me now is the msnbc contributor and the same guy, former montana governor brian schweitzer. i've had a theory governor that the guy who's the outdoor, the one with sun on his face always beats the indoor candidate. truman beats dewey, eisenhower, the big kansas smile beats the indoor guy stevenson. you are the outdoor guy. does that give you the advantage against whoever you might run against for president? whoever? >> i don't know. that's your theory. >> it's a strongly thought through theory, by the way. >> well, i'm a country guy. i'm a third generation rancher from montana, and i just do what i do.
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but i can tell you this, that people say that governors are in a good position to run for president because they actually have a record to run on. you know, every single state has the same kinds of concerns, 85% of the budget of every state in america is to educate, medicate, incarcerate. and during eight years as governor, i had the largest budget surplus in the history of montana every year. never raised any tax, any raised in i fees. investigated more new money in education in anytime in history. decreased the amount of history the state of montana mth was using. pass the renewable portfolio standard and increased our wind energy at the fastest rate in the country. i actually, according to planned parenthood, i vetoed more anti-choice bills than any governor in the history of this country. so that is a record to run on. in addition like that, i went overseas .pi lived in libya. when they talk about benghazi, let me tell you how crazy they
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are. there isn't anybody in libya, they ought to leave them alone about benghazi. it's sillry. when we decided to go to war in iraq, i was in montana. i was one of the democrats saying this is crazy. this is outrageous. this doesn't make any sense. when i was governor in montana, i went to those funerals. >> i love the way you talk. i agree with you on a lot of this stuff. in fact, most of it. let me ask you about running for president. would anything stop you at this point that you can see, stop you from running for the democratic nomination. what would stop you? >> i've run it -- this is going to sound quaint, but i've run it by my family, and i can't anybody in my family, my kids, my wife, any of my brothers and sisters who think it's a good idea. because listen, politics are really tough on families. and everywhere they go, and
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they're all very successful people, people right away begin to judge them based on this guy that they're related to who has been governor who might run for president. >> but what's the down side. if you run a positive campaign -- i thought about this a lot. if somebody goes out there ands a clean, positive campaign in the primary campaign season that includes secretary clinton and she ends up winning or losing, whatever happens, how does it hurt a person who runs a positive campaign to be out there making the case for perhaps a progressive alternative. how do you lose? the country wants to hear that voice. they may want hillary clinton as the candidate, they don't know. but they certainly want to hear that other voice. why is your family against this? i don't get it? they think you'll get hurt? >> to start with, i'll be a couple of years on the road. bouncing around all over the country. >> but they can go with you. they can go with you and have fun. >> i live on a mountain top on a lake, and i stare out across that lake and look at mountains at 12,000 feet high. i live on a dirt road and i
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don't have any neighbors. >> i was out there with my daughter. i have a fishing and trapping license from a year and a half ago. my daughter and i were fishing on the madison river. i know it's quiet out there, was isn't it really too quiet for you? don't you want some action? isn't that what you're talking about here? you're stir crazy out there. you want to get in the action and run for president. why are you playing coy about this thing? why are you in the front page of the wall street journal if you're going to did this will thing away. are you running or not? this is "hardball" my fellow colleague. >> i haven't decided. just because the wall street journal comes up to montana and interviews a guy on his ranch doesn't mean that he's necessarily running for president. >> but you did the interview. >> bill clinton, of course -- i did the interview and i'll do a few more interviews. when bill clinton ran for president. he got 2% in iowa. he got third place in new hampshire and called himself the comeback kid. you don't necessarily start out ahead to win a democratic
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primary. most of the front-runners usually lose. >> let me ask you about greatness. let's think about, you may not want to say you're a partisan democrat, but let me put it on the table. what's good for the democratic party? i want an answer here. is it good for the democratic party that secretary clinton, should she announce, i think she will announce she's running for president, that she faces some primary challenger, people out there, maybe not you, but make o'malley, maybe someone else. who knows who. is it better for her to have some opponents, spars partners in the spring and summer on that go into that general election as the anointed candidate alone? what's better for the party? >> it's better to have a primary, in particular for secretary clinton. because if there's no pry maker it appears she's the incumbent and obama has an approval rating of 42%. if she's running as the incumbe incumbent, it's difficult for her to divorce herself from the obama administration and tell how she's different. if there's some other democrats
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out there, she can talk about the strengths that she has or maybe they can talk about some of the weaknesses that she may have. and that's what's good for the democratic party. that's why we have a big tent. that's why we're going to win this presidential election in 2016 because we have a big tent. >> well said, brian schweitzer, beautiful state. it's got a lot of cows out there and people out there. i hope you do run. it would be fun. i think a really rousing primary season, public debate between the center left and the left about houf to run this country and make it work is the key question. thank you very much. please come back and we'll be back right after this. but i learned to live with my blindness a long time ago. so i don't let my blindness get in the way of doing the things i love. but sometimes it feels like my body doesn't know the difference between day and night.
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>> up next, a new jersey mom whose daughter's might have been prevented if chris christie had allowed access to medical marijuana. i know what you're thinking... transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it's no surprise to you that companies depend on today's xerox
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when you think aarp, then you don't know "aarp" find more surprising possibilities and get to know us at he was a matted messiley in a small cage. ng day. so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. from contractors and doctors to dog sitters and landscapers, you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at >> see, this is what happens. i told this the last time that i signed an expansion of the medical marijuana program. every time you sign one expansion, the advocates will come back and ask for another one. here's what the advocates want. they want legalization of marijuana in new jersey.
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it will not happen on my watch ever. i am done expanding the medical marijuana program under any circumstances. so we're done. this is another one of those narrow group think policies put forth by the legislature and i'm not going to continue to expand it. because what they want is legalization. they're not giving legalization through this governor. they'll have to elect somebody else. >> we're back. that was, of course, governor chris christie announces his refusal that would have allowed ledgestered medical marijuana patients in new jersey to buy the drug in another state where it's legal and bring it home. until it's available in new jersey. well, the very same day that christie made this announcement, phillip and paula joanna said goodbye to their 15-month-old daughter who lost her battle with a severe form of epilepsy. any hope of bringing out of
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state medical marijuana to treat their daughter was also lost that day. in an article written by "high time th times" for huffington post, her mother paula said of christie. he's ignored many i many attempts to meet with him. everyone in this office who answers my calls knows who i am and they blow me off. my e-mails are not answered. he can ignore me and my husband, but we aren't going away. and he doesn't scare us like he scares everyone who works for him. i hope he signs this bill. well, paula is taking the fight to governor christie and fighting for sick children all over the country. and her daughter charlotte is now 9% seizure free as a result of medical marijuana. let's start with hope. page, tell us about how it works. i always thought marijuana was kind of something that gave you a little pleasure, a little
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high, soothed you through cancer late in life situation, hospice situations. i never understood it had this particular property that could deal with seizures epileptics. seizures of eplepti. >> that's how it's been use medically was appetite and cancer. what we found is this oil that we use on charlotte has almost no thc so it doesn't have uforric high started with it. it's working to stop her seizures. it's a combination of anti-inflammatory and neuro protectant of the cannabis plant. >> when did you discover this property that could have helped your daughter? i never heard of it until this horror came my way about your situation and what happened with your family and loss of your daughter. when did this become medically available to help kids who are
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epeleptic. >> last summer. my husband did a lot of research when our daughter was diagnosed and he brought a youtube video to me of charlotte and paige and he said, you know, this will help sabina. i said are you kidding me? it's marijuana. after i watched this short video i was convinced that this is what we needed for her. >> what do you think -- what is the lesson of your tragedy, your family's tragedy for this country? there's a difference between recreational use of marijuana which has passed in some of the western states and it's very much a conflicting thing with most of us about whether to do it or not because people who are vulnerable to addiction for worse drugs but the question is what do we do about the medical use? christie said this is a way to get recreational use accepted. is that the case?
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are people arguing it for medical use using it as a gateway to recreational use? >> i don't think so. there is a lot of things that are going on. kids aren't getting what they need. the dispensaries are always held up. there's always a problem. you know, chris christie is not against medical marijuana. there's just so many regulations that he wants on it that it makes it virtually impossible. >> can you go to a doctor and have it prescribed? how complicated is it? >> no. >> your general practitioner -- your family doctor can't prescribe it? >> no. for pediatrics you have to get a letter from your pediatrician. then you have to get a letter from your specialist. we got one from her neurologist and then we have to see a psychiatrist to make sure we weren't exploiting her and her medical marijuana. >> that means you were going to use it? >> if my husband and i were
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going to try to get medical marijuana via sabina so we could smoke pot. i don't know anyone that wants to smoke recreationally would go through those hurdles to smoke pot. >> how do these two separate? do you see them as separate issues? >> they are separate issues for us and for our nonprofit organization. we are not in recreational market. we're had the hemp market. it's not psycho active. what we're talking about is a hemp supplement. medical marijuana is very different from recreational when the state of colorado went recreational, the applications for medical red card in colorado went up that month. there are still patients that are legitimately needing this as a medicine. thc, whatever. i'm not seeing that. i live here. i'm not seeing that abuse. i don't have a personal interest in the recreational thing.
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i certainly think it's less dangerous than alcohol and i think we can all agree with that. >> we might disagree on that. this is troubling for me. i've seen a lot of dope use and i never thought i would encourage ambition on the part of people. that's just my view. i think it slows down your willingness to live life fully. that's my view. i'm sure i'll hear from people that disagree with me. on this issue of medical use, i am all for it. thank you. for more information on this story, go to our website, 09. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.
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let me finish tonight with a championship performance we saw election night in kentucky. i'm talking about what may one day sit in the history books under the label the empty dress speech. allison grimes, now the nominee for united states senate from kentucky nailed it tuesday night when she hit that republicans she pitched about her being an empty dress and did it out of the park. it's a blazing example of a political tactic as defenattack position. get them out there where you want them coming at you so everyone can see what he's up to and then when it's too late for him to get out of the way, hit him with everything you got. alexander great did that against the persians and henry v did it
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and roosevelt did it when republicans overreached and attacked him for the way he looked out for a family pet. >> republican leaders are content with attacks on me or on my wife or on my sons. not content with that. they now include my little dog. >> that was the speech. ronald reagan did it to jimmy carter when carter tried to make something of reagan's opposition to medicare. >> these are the kind of elements of a national health insurance important to the american people. governor reagan typically is against such a proposal. >> governor, there you go again. >> there you go again. a killer. and tuesday night mitch mcconnell had his lunch eated ey
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a new competitor. hit them with everything you got. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. it's now been 17 days since we first aired our special all in america report on the smart gun and potential life saving technology and the nra's efforts to kill it. it's been 17 days since new jersey democratic state senator who sponsored the legislation in new jersey that mandates use of smart guns when it comes to market, that legislation is what nra points to this technology that could save lives and it's been 17 days since the senator was here offering a truce to the nra, offering to help repeal the law if t


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