tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC August 15, 2014 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
chris matthews will be back on monday. and right now, chris hayes anchors "all in" from ferguson, missouri. good evening from ferguson, missouri. i'm chris hayes. and dawn broke on this city in a very different ferguson today. after days of turmoil following the shooting death of michael brown at the hands of a police officer, last night, finally, a breakthrough. once control was transferred from the county police to the highway patrol yesterday, it was a totally different scene on the streets of ferguson, a scene we brought you right here last night. >> what you're seeing right now, and i think this needs to be clear to the rest of the world, it's not even much a celebration. this is release. >> reporter: aside from a handful of minor incidents, last night was largely peaceful. and instead of camouflaged officers pointing heavy weapons at protesters, you have uniformed cops actually leading a march and later mingling with the crowd, hugging,
conversations, and sometimes very intense arguments between police officers and protesters. none of which was possible 36 hours earlier, when they were in s.w.a.t. gear and gas masks. but this morning, all that changed. it started with a press conference by ferguson police chief tom jackson. >> what we're making available today are the dispatch records and the video footage of a robbery, a strong arm robbery, with use of force that occurred at a local convenience mart. at 11:52, dispatch gave a description of a robbery suspect over the radio. a different officer arrived a to the store, where the strong arm robbery occurred. a further description, more detail was given over the radio. at 12:01 p.m., our officer encountered michael brown on canfield drive. at 12:04, a second officer arrived on the scene, immediately following the shooting. >> the ferguson police released surveillance video, showing a man who appears to be michael
brown in the store, and a police report reporting how he was suspected of stealing cigars in a strong arm robbery. they also released the name of the officer who shot michael brown, darren wilson, age 28, a six-year veteran of the force. a man whose name had been taken out of public view by police for the first five or six days after the shooting. and almost instantaneously upon release of that video footage and stills, there was a wave of backlash. >> it's going to be hard to accept and believe that that was the reason why this policeman took this boy's life. >> we've got a young man that's 18 years old today, he's dead. what are we going to do about that? we have to do something. there has to be some justice some way. >> one thing i'll say and i'll say it again, st. louis county needs to clean its house. >> well, lawyers for the family of mike brown released a statement, expressing their outrage at what they called the character assassination of their son.
quote, there is nothing based on the facts that have been placed before us that can justify the execution-style murder of their son by this police officer, as he held his hands up, which is the universal sign of surrender. the prolonged release of the officer's name and the subsequent alleged information regarding the robbery is the reason why the family and the local community have such distrust for the local law enforcement agencies. a press conference later today turned into more of a community meeting as residents in the wake of this disclosure vented their frustration to governor jay nixon and captain ron johnson, the highway patrol officer, credited with reducing the tension on ferguson streets. >> school's about to start, and the thing about it, these kids are protesting what's going on. and how do you expect kids to sit in the classroom and be normal. >> i'm the father of seven children. but i'm scared to death, because they don't know that they can trust the police to protect them on their way. >> our son, our children, our brothers and husbands and fathers and boyfriends have to go through this every day,
dealing with the police. >> and what seemed like an acknowledgement of the change after that information was released. i watched firsthand as police were brought in to protect ferguson market. it's a convenience store where the alleged robbery took place. the police chief got a question about it at a second press conference today. >> you just put more citizens in trouble by releasing that video that now they have to be protected, because their store and their business has been placed in media. and you say you're concerned about our safety -- >> absolutely. >> but it seems like you're only concerned about your officers' safety. >> i'm absolutely concerned about the safety of my community. >> but by far, the biggest bombshell of that press conference, one that literally left fellow reporters with their jaws agape, was the fact that the alleged robbery was not related to the shooting that killed michael brown. >> this robbery does not relate to the initial contact between the officer and michael brown. >> did he know that he was a suspect in a case or did he not
know? >> no, he didn't. he was walking -- >> it had nothing to do with the stop? >> it had nothing to do with the stop. >> so then why release the video? >> so at this point, why did he stop michael brown? >> because they were walking down the middle of the street, blocking traffic. that was it. >> well, lawyers for michael brown's family later shared the family's reaction to the information released today. >> the family feels that that was strategic. they think it was aimed at denigrating their son. it was a character assassination attempt. he's now inciting the community all over again. >> joining me now is anthony gray, the man you saw there, attorney for the family of michael brown. mr. gray, do you believe the police chief jackson when he says they released that video because of media requests and requests for robbery footage? >> that's hard to believe, that that's the sole reason for releasing information that may have played a part, i'll give him that. but that was not the sole reason
in the opinion of those that are watching this. >> what was your reaction when in the second press conference, and i was there, when the police chief came out and said, you know, oh, no, this had nothing to do with the robbery. oh, the shooting had nothing to do with the robbery. what was your reaction when you're watching that? >> i know other people were surprised, but i was not. i have forewarning and foreknowledge that nothing that occurred before the shooting was relative to the actual shooting itself. but i can imagine the surprise and outrage by those that did hea hear it. >> later on, police chief jackson told our own ron allen, well, now the story is that at some point in the struggle, he noticed the box of cigars, and then realized he might be the suspect. that is after chief jackson had said, just a few hours ago, it had nothing to do whatsoever. >> well, chris, you're seeing why you have all the frustration and outrage and anger. you're witnessing firsthand what is the trigger behind all of that. and the more that they do things
like this, put out information that makes absolutely no sense at all, you're going to continue to have this kind of outcry. >> do you think there is a campaign of character assassination against mike brown? do your clients feel that's happening? >> my clients, without a deal, feel that this is happening. i think anybody that's objective and that's fair and that's looking at this with a open mind would draw that same conclusion. >> the man who is conducting the investigation on the local level, the man who will ultimately decide to bring charges, if charges are brought, and subsequently prosecute the case is the county prosecutor, a guy by the name of bob mccullough. last night, he had very strong words, blasting the governor for his decision to relieve ferguson and st. louis county police of command of security of this area. do you have full confidence that that man, bob mccullough, can bring justice to the family of mike brown, that he can pursue an investigation that is above board? >> well, i can tell you this. eventually, we will find out.
personally, i don't want to speak on that, but we will find out the proof will eventually be in the pudding as to whether or not he can do a fair prosecution or evaluate this case fairly. right now, there's no trust for that at this particular time. >> there is no trust? >> there is no trust for that at this particular time. >> if i am not mistaken, the family -- the possession of the body was given over to the family last night. >> that is true. >> of young mike brown. my understanding is also that the family has conducted another autopsy, independent of the autopsy conducted by county officials? is that correct? >> that is correct. >> do you have the results of that autopsy? >> we have preliminary results, yes. >> how many times was mike brown shot? >> i can't disclose that right now. i don't have an official preliminary report, and when we get that, we plan to disclose that in an organized and official manner, by way of press conference or some other means of communication. >> so you will be making public at some point the details from the independent autopsy, that the family of mike brown has commissioned. >> yes, i will sit down with my partners, mr. ben crump, darrell
parks, and we will sit down and discuss how best to disseminate that information to those who are wondering and that are curious. >> do you have concern about the integrity of witnesses, and i say this because we've now seen three eyewitnesss, one of whom who have spoke to me on this program, all of those accounts broadly in line with each other. at the same time, if i were a prosecutor who was worried about making a case, i would be quite worried about my witnesses, my star witnesses talking to the media. do you have that concern? >> i do not have that concern at this point. and if mr. mccullough does have that concern, i think he should communicate that and articulate his basis for that concern. and perhaps that can be addressed. but personally, for myself, i don't have a problem with it, because like you just stated, the witness accounts are all virtually aligned in the critical facts of what happened. >> how are mike brown's family -- how is the family doing? >> you know, they never recovered. they have never had an
opportunity to recover. and now things are starting to escalate, and the tensions are starting to get higher, after we had a shift in the environment, the governor, i thought, did an excellent job and made an excellent decision. put ron johnson from the highway patrol over this atmosphere, and he completely changed it overnight. now, i get a sense that we're going back to the very few days after this incident, because of some of these things that are happening right now. >> are you anticipating, is the family anticipating or bracing for a kind of barrage of leaks about mike brown? >> no doubt about it. we anticipate that will happen. the family has made it clear from the very beginning that mike brown jr. was not a perfect kid. his father described him as a dad placing his foot on his son's neck to keep him straight. the mother emphasized at the very beginning, i tried hard to get and keep him focussed and keep him going in school. as far as i'm concerned, all of that stuff does not matter when you're examining the final few
moments of his life. it does not matter. >> yeah. anthony gray, he's attorney for the family of mike brown, thank you, sir. joining me now is the democratic mayor of st. louis, francis slay. mayor slay, i have to say, the images that are coming out of ferguson, missouri, are coming out of ferguson, but there are a lot of folks who are thinking, this is st. louis. i'm seeing tear gas in st. louis, police violence in st. louis, unrest in st. louis. as the mayor of st. louis, what are you thinking as you watch all this go down? >> well, this is a very highly charged situation. and while this is not the city of st. louis, it is the suburbs of st. louis and it has a huge impact on the entire region, and that's something i'm very, very cognizant of. >> what are you hoping to see happen here? it strikes me that in the time i've been here reporting, there is a little bit of a municipal game of thrones going on.
some really indeterminantsy of what's in charge of what. are you confident that the lines of authority are clear? the investigation being pursued in a maximally professional manner? >> i am confident of that. and i really supported and i joined the governor and the county executive, county executive charlie dual yesterday, to announce a change in approach the way this thing is being handled on the law enforcement end. i think and i believe and the county executive and governor as well believe that it was just over the top in terms of the amount of police presence, the type of equipment, the artillery that they brought with them, and the military style. i believed and the governor and the county executive as well, that this needed to be demilitarized in terms of its approach. this is a highly charged situation. and what i'm concerned about is that, you know, first of all, we can't lose sight of the fact that an 18-year-old young man was killed in ferguson on saturday.
that his family, that his friends and other relatives in the entire community are grieving and in mourning. there's a lot of, a lot of anger out there, certainly a lot of people are upset and you can see that the emotions are extremely high. and anything that's done, first of all, cannot take away from the fact that we have some grieving parents and a grieving community and a young man that was killed. and i was concerned that what i was seeing is the focus went from thinking about that to this image of the police versus the community. that was a very, very bad image. so i think that the governor did the right thing. i supported him in that effort. in fact, i've offered up in our police chief in the city of st. louis and captain ronnie robertson as well, chief doddson and ronnie robertson are working -- i mean, major robertson, are working with the state trooper, ron johnson to
help provide advice and support in the efforts. >> as far as the -- >> yeah? the -- >> i was just going to say the -- >> as far as the investigation is concerned. >> yeah, st. louis county prosecutor, bob mccullough is, of course, conducting the investigation. he last night -- last night he said that essentially, that the decision by jay nixon to remove the command from the local police was essentially denigrating ferguson police. do you agree with that? >> absolutely not. i disagree with them. i think his remarks were out of order. they were ill timed, inappropriate, and certainly, i think he's wrong on that. this is a very difficult situation that i know our police department has actually assessed and kind of went out and looked at what was going on. and they felt, like i did, that this was being handled in an over the top way, and a way that
was really doing more to create more reaction from the community rather than one that was more conciliatory and one that was going to allow people to provide an outlet for their anger and to protest peaceably. the vast majority of people out there were peaceably protesting. there were relatively few number of people who were committing violence. and you have to distinguish between people that are protesting and people that are committing violence. and that line wasn't looked at. here's what, you know, i said yesterday and this is something i believe. is, this is a highly charged situation. again, we can't lose sight of the fact that an 18-year-old was killed and that the community is outraged by it. we don't know everything that happened, and you know, it's going to be a long time before we get all the facts, but we have to be sensitive to that. we have to make sure that justice happens. we have to make sure that the grieving are comforted, that the
angry are heard or are allowed to speak. and of course, we have to make sure that the innocent are protected. and what we're seeing happening through the way this was being conducted, those things were not happening. >> st. louis mayor francis slay, thank you much, sir. there is some breaking news to report tonight out of texas. governor rick perry has been indicted by a grand jury. the details plus much more from ferguson, ahead. i make a lot of purchases for my business. and i get a lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can.
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we are back live in ferguson, missouri, where it has been a roller coaster of a day. we'll have much more of the situation unfolding here tonight, including a few interviews i did earlier today. but first, some breaking news out of texas, where governor rick perry has been indicted for abuse of power. perry is accused of trying to force travis county district attorney rosemary lambberg from office, after she was convicted of drunk driving. the governor threatened to veto state funding for the office of lambberg if she did not resign. when she refused, perry did veto the funding. lemberg is a democrat. if she had resigned, perry would have appointed her replacement. joining me now, jay rout. it's a little complicated in terms of how he also runs an office of public integrity. >> they have a public integrity unit. they get state funding. in their job -- in some other states, it's the attorney. but they're basically the prosecutor for public corruption
cases. if a lawmaker gets caught stealing or something like that, then it's the travis county district attorney's office through the public integrity unit that handles that prosecution. and that's the funding that he vetoed. >> and that's -- that is the office, if i'm not mistaken, that was the office that prosecuted tom delay under accusations that he was essentially laundering money for campaigns. >> correct. >> and so that office, governor rick perry basically said in the wake of the drunk driving plea, he basically said, i am zeroing out your funding. i'm getting rid of the office that is in charge of essentially finding, investigating, and prosecuting public corruption in the state of texas. he said, i'm getting rid of it. >> yeah, unless you resign, basically. it was sort of, you know, if you don't step down, basically, i'm going to take your funding. your state funding away. they still had some funding w, t this really was a crippling deal to the agency. they had to get funding on the
county level. but, yeah, he carried through the on the threat, and according to the prosecutor, today, the grand jury found that there were two crime s involved. a first-degree felony and a third-degree felony. these are very serious felonies. obviously, he's innocent until proven guilty, and his office is vowing a vigorous defense and said he did nothing wrong. >> but these are -- let's just be clear. as of now, he has been criminally indicted on two felony charges. what are the charges? what is the crime being alleged? >> one's called abuse of official capacity and the other one is coercion of a public servant. but it's basically that he unduly pressured her to step down. and you know, there are all kinds of reports that there were deals that would be made, you're talking about who might be appointed. again, we don't know what the grand jury heard. we don't know what the case is going to say. but that there were, you know, talks about what would happen if she stepped down and you know, there was a big discussion with
her in her office, intermediaries, about this. of course, she refused to step down. really awful video of her in this drunk driving arrest, and so that was a big controversy at the time. and, so, you know, that's what perry was really after, was saying that she was really irresponsible and that she had to go or he was going to get rid of his funding. >> so perry's people put out a statement, basically saying, everything they did was lawful. they were vigorously defend the governor's lawful prerogative to, within the bounds of the state constitution, made in accordance with the veto governor. we'll continue to aggressively defend the governor's lawful and constitutional action. but it was a criminal action to use the line item veto as means of inducement to get a public official to resign. >> right. and they're saying, we're already hearing from republicans
that they are trying to criminalize politics, that, you know, the travis county is sort of a liberal enclave and conservative texas. but, the bottom line is, this is a bad thing politically. it's never good to get indicted. this comes at a time when rick perry was really methodically coming back. you know, he had that horrible oops moment in the 2012 race. well, this is arguably worse than, you know, an embarrassment. this is a criminal indictment, as you said. >> jay root from the texas tribune, thank you so much. >> thank you. about a 50-minute drive outside of ferguson, just a little while from here, the reaction to everything you're seeing around here, the people with their hands up saying don't shoot and the horns being honked and the outrage and calls for justice and protests on the street. the reaction to all of that that's been happening here is very, very different. we're going to talk about that, next. you know what i love america? fine barbecue, good times and zero heartburn. ♪
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night is beginning to fall and a steady rain is coming down now on this intersection of floristson and campfield drive. this is just a few blocks from where mike rogers was shot and killed by ferguson police, just a few days ago over the weekend. i'm sorry, mike brown was killed by ferguson police. and you can see, folks are honking their horns. but as the train falls, it's far fewer people out on the streets tonight. for the second night in a row,
we are seeing a very, very limited police presence. there are police officers from the state highway patrol and from the ferguson police, who are mixing and talking to folks. but as of yet, nothing like the very militaryized response we saw. earlier, i had the opportunity to talk with a local cab driver who is an absolute character. he's third generation north county st. louis. his name is umar lee, a convert to islam, and he knows why this area has changed and how important and central that is to what is happening right now. >> the historic migration pattern within north county was mostly farmland, ferguson's a railroad town, some other small towns in north county. i think that 1950s housing boom, and then you get desegregation in the city. and so, white flight out of white north st. louis to north
county. and then decades later, you get african-americans moving in to north county. >> this area was started as a place where a lot of whites, people from st. louis were moving to after school. >> there was a small city of ferguson associated with the railroad, but what made ferguson and florrison and other areas grow was that flight out of north st. louis. and there are two historical communities in north county, but the rest is historically white. >> you've seen a time in your lifetime, over north county change a lot. >> north county has changed dramatically. we've had a dramatic white flight out to st. charles, even lincoln and warren counties. and the african-american population in north county is much larger. >> so you've got the situation, you've got a place that's sort of in a period of demographic transition. and if you look at other places, the politics of that can be fraught on both ends. but we've been focusing on the
grievances of the protesters, african-american community here in ferguson, but, you know, the white residents of ferguson, who by and large are not down at the qt, i'm getting the sense from folks i'm talking -- they have a very different perception of this. >> yeah, there's a different perception of this. ironically, what's happening in ferguson, ferguson has the reputation of being one of the most progressive places in north st. louis county, where you do have a strong contingent of white progressives, that are kind of committed to diversity, and have -- we've got the ferguson farmer's market down the street. >> a farmer's market town. >> farmer's market, craft brew, you know, like low-grade hipsters kind of thing. but, you know, this did happen in ferguson. and what happened in north county really is, you have an older white population, that is established, they got the city
jobs, they vote, and then you have a younger african-american population, not as established, oftentimes not voting in the same numbers. so the ferguson school district is something like, which i went to ferguson school district, is something like 80% african-american. but the school board is 100% white. >> to this day? >> to this day. and they just fired earlier this year, dr. art mccoy, a popular black superintendent. where michael brown was killed is in the ferguson school district. >> so you got this along a lot of lines the from county executive to the police force to the school superintendent. you've got this sort of, you know, beneath the surface, the subtext of this kind of push and pull, between these different demographic groups, in a period of transition for who is running the institution. >> right, it's community wide. it's churches. you know, you have older churches, which were white churches, which are now becoming african-american churches or, it's just community wide.
>> what do you think, you were just telling me, you were getting an earful from a couple of residents about the protesters. it's a very different view than maybe what the protesters themselves think of what's going on. >> it's a very different view. i think -- and of course, the white community of ferguson is not monolithic, but i think off strong contingent of them who feel that the protesters are unjust, circle the wagons, they feel ferguson has been vilified in the national media, internationally. and these are people who generally would have a pro-police mentality, anyway. and they're very upset by what's going on. >> and the politics of this region, not just in ferguson, not just in north county, but the whole metro area is pro-police law and order, that's a staple of the politics of the region. >> yeah, you understand north county was one of those blue-collar democrat strong union places, which, you know, growing up, most of the white
kids that knew, including my own, were military families, were union families. >> pro-life, pro-labor democrat. >> right, vfw, the whole nine yards. that's kind of the culture here in northern st. louis county. as a matter of fact, i was walking past quiktrip yesterday, and as an african-american family, their backyard goes into the quiktrip, and i said, hey, you had a front row view. and they both shook their heads, like, unfortunately. >> all right, you got to get back in your cab. thanks for your time. joining me now, julie who just wrote a piece about the reaction of communities outside ferguson in north county. everything that's been happening here this week. and tremaine lee, national reporter for msnbc.com. julia, i thought your piece was fantastic. you drove 15 minutes from here and talked to folks at a starbucks basically like, hey, what's up?
what do you think of what's going on? what did you hear? >> it didn't take much questioning to get them to tell me everything they thought about the situation. out came this resentment and showed how much of a divide there was among, in st. louis, and what a divided and segregated city it was. this was a very white enclave and they were resentful. they said, how come everybody's paying so much attention to this. because when they kill each other, as they said, nobody talks about it. and black people hate white people. and this is -- >> this was all told to you within a few minutes of just -- >> like that. or, i wish the cameras and the journalists like you would go away, because you're just giving these people attention. they just want to see themselves on tv. and really, this is all an excuse for them to go looting for junk. yeah, that was my reaction. >> i also heard, i also read in a piece, you know, that, oh, he struggled with the cops, or he was fighting back against the cops. >> or that he wasn't innocent
and he had a rap sheet. >> which is not true. >> and of course, jermaine, it's precisely that. that drove people here out of their minds, because it was like, here we go again, and here is the message to the folks here who want to engage in backlash politics about all of this, that this kid is who he thought he was. >> and people immediately saw it and started calling out for what they thought it was. a smoke screen. people were angered and for a moment, seeing that it was going to kind of disrupt all of the peace that we've seen, the night before, people were so angry that we had to be concerned. what's going to happen now? but, again, that sentiment is exactly why the people feel they've been cloistered into this community. abuses by the police, feeling they haven't been treated failure. the whole city council is white, but for one black person. there are 53 people on the police force and only three black people. that sentiment we're getting and add that to the motivation we
saw a few nights ago -- >> and the point, julie, from your piece is the reason the pressures are the way they are, the reason north county looks the way it does, is because there are a lot of voters in north county electing the county prosecutor and county executives and local officials, who have those beliefs. >> who see them as these people over there, who we kind of resent and are kind of afraid of. so even when we told them, they were like, you're going over there? better be careful. i said, the protest is very peaceful right now, like a carnival. and one gentleman told me he would go there, even though he rents properties here to a bunch of african-american people, he said he doesn't want to go here, because he has a wife and three kids, and if something were to happen to him, it would be very bad. so these people are dangerous and violent. >> let me briefly step in for the defense of the white people of north county. there are all kinds of folks. i talked to a guy on the street who is ran up to me and proclaimed himself a socialist
and talked about how happy he was. >> of course. >> so massively monolithic. lots of different views and diversity of opinion across democratic lines. that said, there is a core of classic politics of white racial backlash politics. i mean, north county was a place that was produced by the desegregation of the st. louis schools. desegregation, which i should note, jay nixon sued to undue, as one of the acts that put him on the map as a politician when he was running for attorney general back in the late '80s and 1990s. >> the fear always is that we know that there are broad spectrum of people and how they feel about race and a number of other things. what happens when that police officer holds certain views about you or your politician holds certain views. folks in this community, it's not very different than a lot of other communities. white flight, everyone fled. you want the schools, you got them. you want the public institutions, you got them. >> and that's why there's a sort of specific kind of feeling happening and i've seen in other cities in chicago and the south suburb, that the places that were the destination of white flight become the places that black folks looking to buy a
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area to position themselves in front of the ferguson market. keep in mind, this was the subsequent of police releasing video that showed michael brown as an alleged robbery suspect there. this appeared to be a security detail specifically for the ferguson market, and concerns about it being attacked following the release of that information. the beginning of my interview began there, but as you will see, we then decided to go elsewhere. >> we were about to set up this shot and i was saying, you're a journalism student, right? >> yeah. >> and you're studying journalism and how we kind of make the messages that people get. and you're from here? you're from ferguson and i said, well, we've got to do the shot in front of the ferguson market & liquor, that's the iconic place. and what did you say to me? >> i just find it really weird how this story is being framed. i feel like it's being a little sensationalized, because this street doesn't represent like this entire community and if you go like a couple of blocks away from here, you hear nothing but cicadas, dogs, and maybe even if you listen closely, like the
sizzle of barbecue. >> all right, so we drove two minutes. >> if that. >> maybe a minute, as we came through. we heard the sound of cicadas, and now we've got the sizzle of barbecue, which is what you told me you would have. and we're not 50 feet from the site where mike brown was shot and killed. right there where he lost his life. so, etephia. what's your reaction today? last night, you and i spoke and it seems like there's been this sort of crescendo and change of leadership and ron johnson came in and last night was this really remarkable scene. today, after that video was released, i think a lot of them -- a very angry statement by mike brown's family and attorney. how do you think people are feeling today? >> the idea that a young black man being killed by an officer and then consequently vilifvili
later, whether it be through character and photo shoots, like, if they gun me down, a toxicology report is anything new. people are frustrated by it, because they feel like the same thing is going to happen again, where he gets acquitted. and it's just like -- it's frustrating, to be quite honest. because like at the end of the day, an unarmed 18-year-old male was shot and killed right there. it's unfortunate that it's trying to be tarnished by this new footage, and now they're starting to get a little bit militaryized again. so kind of like a resurgence of that same sort of atmosphere in the area. and it's really unfortunate to see that. >> you could feel it today, a little bit of resurgence of that. >> we learned today about how the ferguson police learn about doing their business on a daily basis. it's really troubling with, and the details ahead.
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protesters marching down the main thoroughfare here. the site of protests, you can see them there. chanting, drumming, hands up, don't shoot. hands up, don't shoot. that, of course, reaction to the description three, now three, eyewitnesss have given about the status of mike brown when he was gunned down by a ferguson police officer with his hands up. now, a local report from our nbc affiliate in st. louis tonight highlighting an interesting protocol for how ferguson police department used to write up reports dealing with non-fatal uses of force. >> the officer himself could complete it and give it to the supervisor for his approval. documents revealed those reports were never placed in an officer's personnel file. >> how do we know that these
officers haven't used excessive force over and over again. you know, that they haven't shot people or tased people or kicked people or, you know, injured other people? >> in other words, there seems to be very little accountability in place with the ferguson police department for uses of force that were not fatal. an interesting piece of information considering, as the daily beast reporter, michael daly points out, the officer accused of killing michael brown, darren wilson, who is said to have no disciplinary record, as such records are kept in ferguson. wilson started out at a time when it was accepted for a ferguson cop to charge somebody for property damage for bleeding on his uniform. the officers responsible for deciding whether to pursue criminal charges in this case is a st. louis county prosecutor's office. if the ferguson police are collecting the evidence and building the case, it is a st. louis county prosecutor, the man in charge of that office, is bob mccullough, and he is the one currently conducting the investigation that will determine whether darren wilson, the officer who shot and killed
mike brown will be charged and if charged with what will prosecute the case. a dispatch from reuters reports another time mccullough was in the spotlight. in 2001, he was criticized heavily but stood behind comments that two men fatally shot by a police officer and federal drug agent were bums who were killed during an attempted arrest. and just yesterday, he had harsh words for jay nixon. not too long after the governor decided to replace st. louis county police and put the missouri highway patrol in charge of security in ferguson. a "st. louis post-dispatch" quoted mccullough as saying, the governor had no legal authority to do that and to denigrate the men and women of the county police department is shameful. and for nixon to never talk to dmar commanders in the field and to take this action is ferguson. and now there are calls for mccullough to recuse himself, because they do not have confidence he can impartially prosecute this case. a state senator who is calling for bob mcculloch to recuse
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>> absolutely. i think that bob mcculloch needs to show statesmanship and recuse himself from this process. he needs to step away, because the people here and the st. louis area, we don't have confidence that he's going to be fair and -- >> wouldn't he tell you, i've been elected time after time after time. i've been the county prosecutor for going on 23 years, i believe. how can you say -- the voters have confidence in me. they put me back in office. >> but he will not be fair and kbashl on this particular -- >> why do you say that? >> because we've had a situation that occurred years ago where two men were shot 20 times at the jack in the box. the department of justice came in and they said that those guys lied during their interview. and guess what bob mcculloch did? bob mcculloch allowed for those men, the police officers to go through. >> you're saying the department of justice came in and said the police officers lied about the shooting and bob mcculloch let them go. >> he ruled it was a justifiable
homicide. if we want the people in this city to have confidence in fact process, he must step aside immediately. >> council woman irving, do you feel the same way? >> i do. >> you do? >> i do. >> do you think that's a widely held view among politicians at the county level? >> it's definitely a widely held view. the politicians as well as the community. bob mcculloch has a trok record of not being fair. and i believe this will not benefit the family of michael brown. >> we've reached out to prosecutor mcculloch, who i would love to interview and talk to. i think if he were standing right here, he would say, you know, i call 'em a see 'em. heim a longtime prosecutor. a very adept prosecutor, very experienced prosecutor. i've put a lot of people away in prison when they deserved it. you know, why shouldn't i have this case? >> because, like the senator said, the jack in the box case, and there are others. there are others that we could cite. we know that he will not be -- it's just not the best interest.
>> in the comments last night, after you had this whole day where there was basic unanimity for applause of the situation to change the security situation out here, put in ron johnson. and at the end of the night, there were two entities that have dissented from that. the st. louis county police. and the entity that are collecting evidence at the scene and part of this investigation. what does that tell you about this investigation? >> it tells you that it's already messed up. they've already messed up the investigation. and i believe, from what i understand, the police, who committed the crime, and it was a crime, left the scene. did he leave the scene in the car where it happened? that was tampering with evidence. so, it's already messed up. we need an impartial person to come in and do this. >> what do you make of the ferguson police department what is just head snapping? >> it's recallous trance
compounded by ineptitude. the department started out stonewalling, moved to mud-slinging and is now counterpunching. >> so you do not buy that chief jackson came out today at the press conference i was at, and he said, look, you guys were asking for this video, you know, what do you want me to do? >> the initial question is, if he released the video, this video was released in conjunction with the officer's name. it raised the suspicion of whereby why was this not released before? because if, indeed, he was responding to a robbery charge, that seems reasonable. people would say, you seem someone who fits the description that closely, you would say, let me talk to you a minute and you would have a reason to pull him over. it seems that the suspicion, i saw a sign here that said, the ferguson county -- the ferguson police need better script writers. and i think that really sums up a lot of how people see what's happened here. there's no consistency and the story changes a lot. >> the shock among journalists, when keith jackson came out and
said, no, had nothing to do with each other. everyone was like, we were just here a few hours ago. state senator, thank you all very much. i really appreciate it. all right, that is "all in" for this evening. live from ferguson, missouri, as night falls here. rach"rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening, chris. amazing stuff, again. get thee to an umbrella. >> thank you very much. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. we have some new reporting ahead this hour on the situation in ferguson. and we're going to be keeping an eye on the protests that you could see unfolding over chris's shoulder there. unfolding there yet again tonight, after what really was an explosive day of news in ferguson, missouri. i should also tell you, we're going to be joined live by the attorney for michael brown's family in just a few minutes. that's coming up live in just a couple of minutes. but before we get to that, we have some late-breaking news tonight out of texas. a grand jury in austin, texas, tonight has