tv The Reid Report MSNBC October 24, 2014 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
from biotech in brooklyn, to next gen energy in binghamton, to manufacturing in buffalo... startup-ny has new businesses popping up across the state. see how startup-ny can help your business grow at startupy.gov hello, i'm joy reid. it's a busy friday on "the reid report." we'll get you up to speed on all the latest developments on the new york doctor who's tested positive for the ebola virus. but first some good news. nina pham, the first texas nurse to be infected with ebola, just met with president obama. after being released from the national institutes of health facility in maryland. she read a brief statement at the hospital before heading to the white house. >> i am on my way back to recovery, even as i reflect on
how many others have not been so fortunate. i would especially like to thank dr. kent brantly for his selfless act of donating plasma to me. i asked for my privacy and for my family's privacy as i return to texas and try to get back to a normal life and reunite with my dog bentley. >> and more good news. doctors in atlanta said today that tests on dallas nurse amber vinson no longer detect the virus in her blood. meanwhile n new york, dr. craig spencer has just begun his battle with the virus. right now he's isolated at manhattan's bellevue hospital. he became symptomatic yesterday after developing a 103-degree fever. a medical waste removal team has just arrived to sanitize dr. spencer's har lamb apartment. at his second news conference in less than 24 hours, new york mayor bill de blasio stressed again today that new york's 8 million residents are safe. >> there is no cause for alarm. new yorkers need to understand the situation is being handled
and handled well. there is no cause for everyday new yorkers to be alarmed. >> nbc's chrkristin dahlgren is new york. >> reporter: we did get confirmation from the cdc. it did a second ebola test. that also came back positive, so confirming what the hospital here knew last night, that he does have ebola. we're told by new york city health officials, though, he is in stable condition. he's alert. he's talking. he's been able to be interviewed, to tell them a little more about his steps over the past few days and where he has been. we also heard that at least two of the places where he's been have now been cleared. we keep hearing from public health officials that there is no danger to the public health here in new york, so going along those lines, we now know the bowling alley where he was has been cleaned and sanitized. it is reopening. also a statement from the mta saying the subways here in new york are safe. again and again they're telling
us that they don't believe that he was emitting any bodily fluids at the time that he was at the bowling alley, on the subways. even if he had, those -- that ebola doesn't live in bodily fluids outside of the body for very long at all. again, the bowling alley and subways here in new york are safe. >> what about the contacts the doctor had, friends, family, people around him, are any of them now under quarantine or being monitored? >> reporter: sure. so, those are the people they're most concerned about. he has a fiancee that he came in close contact with. she is now also quarantined here at the hospital. he also had two close friends that he was in close contact with. they are also being isolated. the three of them not showing any symptoms yet, but will be isolated for the 21-day incubation period that ebola could possibly have. so after 21 days, then they'll know they were safe. they're now in quarantine as well. >> kristin dahlgren, thanks very much. so far new york's response
to its first ebola patient has been pretty much by the book. at a congressional hearing today about the overall u.s. response to ebola, new york congresswoman carolyn maloney praised the state for getting it right. >> new york city has been working with new york state, the centers for disease control, to prepare for this. and our nation's largest city, based on what we know now, i believe they have responded and done absolutely everything right. >> but with the arrival of this latest ebola case, there are new questions about just how much vigilance is needed. and here with me to answer some of those questions, dr. nancy simkins, board certified, and dr. corey hebert, dr. common sense. i'm going to start at the table here. just seeing nina pham at the white house, i would imagine that part of the reason that the
president wanted to do that and to have her there in the white house and to have those pictures out is to show himself and other members of the team hugging nina pham, to show you can be around her, the fact she's perfectly safe to interact with. is that what we need to do to de-escalate people's fears about ebola? >> i agree, joy. i think there's a great level of concern about this disease. and i think we as medical professionals and you as media people have to try to allay those fears and those concerns. so, the two people who have contracted ebola on united states soil are now disease-free. that is a fact that all viewers must hear what i'm saying. the two people who have contracted it, no longer have the disease. >> not only that, the two people who have contracted it on u.s. soil, as well as the three missionaries who originally came to the united states infected with ebola and this latest doctor, who were people involved
directly with ebola patients. it's medical professionals who are at the greatest risk, right? >> right. that's why i'm feeling a little concerned. because i think the cracks in the foundation of our house as a country are getting wider due to the lack of forethought of our health care workers and our health care industry. because we know that our people out there -- the people we work with are the ones at most risk, but we have to take into consideration that there is a media and there is a fear mongering and that does exist. when we talk about people coming back into this country from west africa where they had direct contact with extreme amounts of bodily fluid, i really think there should be a mandatory quarantine for those people for 21 days. there's really no problem for that. i think that's reasonable. and the reason why is because doctors without borders is a great organization. dr. expenser is er spencer is a doctor. the point is, is it worth all this, if he had gone into 21 days of isolation, new york
would not be going through this hysteria right now. it's a risk/benefit analysis. the risk of a doctors without borders doctor being in quarantine for 21 days far outweighs -- >> you are one who has been talking about tamping down the hysteria but you're saying essentially health care workers who have been directly involved in treating ebola patients they themselves should be subject it a 21-day quarantine across the board? >> if they come back from a country, west africa, when they're coming back into this united states, i mean, the reason why i say that is because we have to be realistic about this. yes, we want people in all -- in the most populous city in the united states to be very calm and not worry about it, but that's not going to happen, joy. they're going to be worried about it, even though it's irrational. we have to think about the risk/benefit ratio. it's not a big inconvenience if you know you've been on the front lines dealing with bodily
fluids of thousands of patients with ebola, when you come back into the united states, just be quarantined for 21 days. doctors without borders will pay for you for 21 days, i'm sure. fnt, the federal government should subsidize. it's not worth it because nobody is going to get ebola from a bowling alley but nobody believes that. we have to be realistic about this. >> what do you think about that? >> i have to agree 100%. i think doctors without borders is an unbelievable organization. we both agree on that. but i do think they're going to relook at their protocols based on this because we do need to tone down the mass hysteria based on ebola. we should be talking more about the idea that 50,000 americans are going to die from flu. nobody's talking about that, right? because we're all worried about this one case that's upsetting everything and nobody wants to take the subway or go on the bus or go to a bowling alley. that's ridiculous. >> let's talk about those protocols for a second. doctors without borders has protocols where they tell their doctors coming back from the effected area to check their temperature, to wear -- to finish regular course of malaria
prophylaxis, their malaria medicine, to be aware of relevant symptoms, stay within four hours of a hospital. those are all things this dr. craig spencer did. is there a sense, and i'll start with you on this, dr. hebert, that i'm a medical professional, if i dough these protocols, i'm immediately going to contact the right authoritiesfy have symptoms, i'll do the right thing, do you think that's part of the problem maybe? >> well, i think the bigger problem, joy, is the fact we're all human. so, we make mistakes. so, if there's a 12-step protocol for doctors without borders to disrobe after they are taking care of the patients, somebody's going to do 11 one time. and that's human nature. and so that's why it's just -- you know, it's not that the doctors or the nurses are just, you know, full of their own ego to say, i can handle this, but it's just the fact that everybody makes a mistake. you can't put a country that's already teetering on the edge with isis and everything else a little more hysterical because somebody foregot one of the
steps. and that's going to happen. >> i want to read a few tweets from ashoka mukpo who came back into the country, a freelancer who came back and now recovered from ebola and he contracted in liberia. he said on twitter, ebola is a sudden onset. i was fine all afternoon and then ran a temp at night. i suspect it was the same with the new york case. dr. spencer. and then he said, people get ebola from being around very, very sick people. not people who felt a little funny and then became symptomatic later that night. that's true, right? >> that is so true. i think the american public has to hear exactly what you're saying. that you have to have a high fever with high viral load. it is not just a mild cold. >> you can't get it sitting in an uber car or bowling? >> no. have you to try and get it. you have to be in contact with copious amounts of body fluids. >> that is really medical professionals at risk. very interesting. dr. hebert, very interesting proposal, i'm sure you'll hear about that on twitter
twitter, #drcommonsense. now a reid alert on the deadly shooting in canada. live pictures from ottawa where residents have turned out to pay tribute to nathan cirillo. his body will be returned to his hometown of hamilton, ontario. meanwhile, officials released surveillance video showing the rampaging gunman moments before the shootout inside parliament. police hinted at a positive motive saying michael zehaf-bibeau had wanting to travel to syria and may have been frustrated after his passport was flagged. there are looking into if there is connection between his radicalization. will a visit from the big dog be what's needed to give burke the edge? plus, on a day when darrell issa's house committee, i'll talk to charlie rangel whose
constituent is the latest american to test positive for the ebola virus about his thoughts on the city's preparedness. >> 20 minutes ago i just found out that my neighbor possibly has ebola. i hope he's okay. cooler heads prevail. getting upset about the situation or the uncertainty of it doesn't help anyone. (receptionist) gunderman group. gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money? time and money. awesome. awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! (all) awesome! i love logistics.
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now, that's progressive. [ male announcer ] tomcat. [ cat meows ] folks, the whole country's watching this race. because her opponent got a lot of headlines in the last four years, all related to conflict. >> that is president bill clinton in milwaukee, wisconsin, just a short time ago. on the stump in support of mary burke, the democratic candidate for governor. burke is all tied up in the polls with her opponent,
republican incumbent scott walker. early in the year re-election looked like a formality for walker en route to a possible 2016 presidential campaign. but as nbc's chuck todd explains from the road in the badger state, the wisconsin race may be a bellwether for what we see happen on election day. >> you know, joy, one of the, i think, unknowns about this election season is, is it going to be a wave that just favors one party or is the wave different? is the polarization and gridlock fatigue something that's going to hurt incumbents first and then in uneven ways parties in different ways? well, wisconsin's an interesting test case. this is not a senate race, not a nationalized race. but it's very polarized, filled with gridlock. as you know, they've been in a constant campaign mode for four years between walker's initial election, the unsuccessful recall and now where we are today. oh, by the way, there was a presidential election inserted in between.
i think the census is, if this is an anti-incumbent environment we're in, then we could see democratic -- four, five democratic senators lose re-election. we could also see four or five or six -- i think wisconsin will tell us a lot. if walker survives, i think it will mean there was sort of a republican wind at the end that pushed him over the top. he is struggling here a little bit. mary burke is a different type of democrat than he's run against before. she's not a member of congress, doesn't have a voting record for him to run against. it's been harder for him to paint her as, quote/unquote, too liberal for wisconsin. she's a businesswoman, part owner of a very popular company here, trek bicycle. that and never mind the fact that walker now has to answer for promises he hasn't been able to keep, including job growth numbers, goals he set in 2010 he's yet to meet. put all that together and i think that's why we have quite
the close race here in wisconsin. and one of the few gubernatorial races, florida being the other, that nationally we know folks like to follow. >> that's nbc's chuck todd. joining me now is scott ross, executive director of one wisconsin now. thank you for being here. always good to talk to you. >> hey, joy, how are you? >> very well, thank you. let's talk about a couple points chuck was making. number one, this idea that the wave we're working out there might be an anti-incumbent wave. is there anti-incumbent rumbling around scott walker or why do you suppose this race is suddenly so close? >> i think walker is in the fight of his life? he's never been this close this late in any election. he's got a gender gap problem. he's hemorrhaging independents and he's got an enthusiasm gap. and i think that part of the reason we're seeing that is because his administration has been rife with corruption, incompetence and cronyism. as chuck point out, president clinton is here today.
president obama is here on tuesday. presidents don't come to states to close up gaps. they come to close the deal. >> right. and one of the things scott walker has been struggling on is this question of jobs. chuck did allude to that in his piece. is that he made a promise that he was going to create a certain number of jobs. he missed the mark by about 150,000 jobs. there was this plan to create 250,000 jobs in this state. and also in his first term obviously there was that big anti-union push, which was also supposed to be about fixing the budget. is the issue still lingering about the anti-union piece and is the job deaf sificit hurting walker at all? >> you've hit two things there. first, governor walker ripped wisconsin in two, pitting neighbor against neighbor when he stripped away the rights of 175,000 working wisconsinites. he also made one promise to the people of wisconsin. he said, elect me and i'm going to create 250,000 jobs. as you point out, he didn't meet that. we're dead last in the midwest
when it comes to job creation. and i think that's part of the big problem. i think the unwritten thing about this is the radical social agenda that scott walker has undergone. he stripped women of their rights all across the state. and they are -- that's one of the reasons he has this big gender gap. a gap that he can't make up. >> he does have this very conservative position on same-sex marriage and abortion. he doesn't play that up, right? he doesn't run as a social conservative, though he is. >> oh, no. he plays wink and nod. we caught him playing wink and nod with the state's most radical anti-abortion group. we've caught him, you know, dissem belling about, you know, everything from the jobs promise to what he was going to do as governor. and, you know, i mean, not to be glib, but, i mean, last week he was asked about his male pattern baldness and he attributed that to an old injury suffered with a cabinet door. and this guy can't tell the truth about anything. and i think he's spinning out of control. i think the other thing with sgov nor walker is we just had another dump of john doe docs
related to the criminal investigation involving his county staff. governor walker was involved in potentially trying to rig a government contract with one of his -- with his campaign treasurer. those headlines are not good two weeks before an election. >> well, we'll certainly be following this, because we have voter i.d. on the table. we'll definitely have you back. thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy. breaking news right now. there are reports of a possible school shooting at marysville high school outside seattle. students and teachers reported hearing gunshots fired this morning. the high school is currently on lockdown and the possible shooting was reported at 10:45 a.m. pacific time, or just about a quarter to 2:00 eastern. there are reports as many as six people injured. it's still unclear if there's a suspect at large. students could be seen streaming out of the school as ambulances and police were arriving on the scene. [ male announcer ] if you had a dollar for every dollar car insurance companies say they'll save you by switching, you'd have, like, a ton of dollars.
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getting breaking news on the reports of a possible school shooting at marysville high school outside of seattle. teachers and students heard gunshots fired this morning. the school is currently on lockdown. this possible shooting was reported again at 10:45 a.m. pacific, about quarter to 2:00 eastern time. there were reports as many as six people injured. let's listen to our affiliate king 5 in seattle. >> at the time they didn't know who was in the school, what explosive devices were in there and what else, if there was another shooter. that's part of the reason they evacuated that way. >> kim, we're just going to -- we're going to interrupt you for just a second. put you on hold. we want to get back to jim foreman in the news room. >> we are told by the fbi in seattle that its agents are on the way to the scene, which would lead credence to the fact that this is, in fact, what it all looks like. it's been a shooting at marysville-pilchuck high. i'll get back working. the moment we get marysville
police on the phone, we'll get that information to you. so, i'll get back to work and get some more information to you when it happens. >> jim, thank you. let's get back to kim christianson at kusa in denver, who's covered a number -- unfortunately, a number of shootings in colorado, including columbine. you were talking about just how calm the situation is here. as we're looking at live pictures of an officer leading a group of students onto a grassy field there. again, when people think of school shootings, they think of columbine. unfortunately, they think of the students who are running out, frantic and scared and everything is in chaos. this is not what we're seeing here. hopefully what that means is the threat has been contained and now they're just getting all the students out of those classroom buildings in a safe and orderly manner. and you can talk about your experience in dealing with, you know, reporting these school
shootings. this is quite different from what you've seen in the past, right? >> very different. i mean, i think columbine did write the rule book for schools. they practice for this kind of thing. what has changed, of course, is that in those days they didn't have cell phones, these young people. we saw that certainly appear orakpo high school a year ago where students were able to communicate to their parents instantly saying, i'm okay, i'm outside, we've been evacuated. that offered a great deal of comfort to parents. it was difficult in the days of columbine where initially they were calling us and desperate for information. our job as journalists, we're to try to provide that information to them, tell them about evacuation areas that have been set up. a lot of the kids had been taken to elementary schools. then they were held there until everyone was accounted for. but parents, obviously, were terrified and extremely worried and trying to get to those elementary schools and reconnect with their young people. but now it has changed because
many young people have phones. we have so many people communicate for us during the arapaho high school student lost the life and the shooter in this case turned the gun on himself as well. but one of the things that we caution, though, is there is that era of social media as well. some of this information is not accurate and it's young people. remember how impressionable they are. >> we have reports of the fbi on the scene of a possible school shooting at marysville-pilchuck high school, 30 miles outside of seattle. what we know right now, as you can see from those pictures, students are coming out of the school. you can see students calmly streaming out of the school. you heard our affiliate talking about the fact that because these students now have cell phones, they can be in contact with their parents. we have heard reports of potentially six people, as many as six people injured and we're still working to verify that. jim kav new, former atf special agent and law enforcement analyst on the pohone. you heard our affiliate talk
about how columbine is the touchstone for how people experience these incidents. i guess there have been protocols rolled out across the country, is that correct? >> that's correct, joy. most school districts have practiced evacuations and active shooter drills. the police have well. we practiced active shooter drills and police response to active shooters post columbine. law enforcement is very well trained up. you're seeing an orderly evacuation. that's a very large campus from the aerial shots we're seeing from the nbc seattle there. very large campus with a lot of buildings. so, i would expect that this would be sort of a slow methodical process now. there's an active shooter there reportedly. but they may not be hearing shots. so what the police officers have to do is find the shooter. that's their task right now. so, even if it's quiet, they're trying to find him. >> let me ask you this question, jim, because you do have a
situation where we talked during the incident in canada about the need to basically lock everyone inside of that parliament building. in this case, getting the students out of the building. how does that aid and could that, in a sense, make it more difficult when you're trying to actually find an active shooter but also trying to lead lots and lots and lots of people outside of the building? >> that's right, joy. that's a great question. if the officers can clear a spot where they can get past a certain building and know the shooter's not there, they then can evacuate safely behind them in an orderly fashion. you know, if you're faced with an active shooter, your choices are to flee. first thing, if you can get away, you want to get away. if you cannot get away, then you want to barricade, lock the door, put stuff in front of the door. stay there until the police rescue you. and third, if you can't do either one of those two is to fight. so you flee first, if you can. you barricade second. and you fight last, even if you have to fight with your hands or
sticks or anything. if you have multiple students to fight off an attacker. if you're safe in a lockdown place, stay there, communicate on your cell phone to your parents, to the police, to school administrators. it's great intelligence. you may be able to tell the police where the shooter is. >> right. exactly. >> just from your twitter or e-mail or text message. >> and i want to remind everybody, if you're just tuning in, we're following news of a potential school shooting at marysville-pilchuck high school, about 30 miles outside of seattle. the most recent school shooting happened at seattle pacific university where a gunman killed one student, wounded two others on june 5th. the associated press is reporting now that police did respond to this high school north of seattle following reports of a school shooting. local television stations including our affiliate reporting that two people were being air lifted to a hospital. we have carrie austin, a math teacher at the school in lockdown right now, as we see
some people streaming out. thank you for joining us. hopefully you can hear us. what are you hearing right now where you are? >> we're not really hearing anything. we can kind of hear helicopters above, but we're in a classroom pretty far away from the cafeteria. >> when you heard the report essentially, because we see some students are being evacuated, essentially where you are, were you told to barricade yourself in and if so, by whom? >> what was the question? >> i'm just asking, when you first learned that there was something going on, were you told to barricade yourselves in -- >> yes, we were told to go into lockdown procedure. so -- >> and are you -- >> in our rooms, lights off, yes. >> are you currently on lockdown being barricaded with students or other faculty? >> whoever was nearby the door, so there's 36 students and 3 teachers in this room. some students were at lunch. some of my students from class. some were just students near the door. and we just said to get into a room.
>> so the principal, we're understanding, came on the pa system and told everyone to lock down. now, where you are, are you in communication with law enforcement? >> no. >> you're not in communication -- >> we have no communication with anybody except for students on their phones and the principal has come over the loud speaker two or three times, just telling us there was a shooting. there were shots fired. cops are on campus. stay in lockdown. >> and let me get jim cavanaugh if you're still here. i don't know if you can hear this teacher on lockdown, barricaded inside of that school. you have essentially a partial lockdown/pashlg evacuation going on because we can see people led out of the school. is that typical, jim? >> yes, it's typical because the campus is so large and the police move in. if necessity see an area they can safely evacuate, they will. now, they want that intelligence, obviously, that
the teacher you talked to just had. so, if she could communicated that either to the police, to the school board, you know, that would help them know where she is, what number classroom, et cetera. >> right. let's go back to you for a second. when you first heard the principal over the loud speaker, what exactly did he or she say? >> she just said, this is not a fire drill. this is not a drill. there was some confusion at the beginning. somebody pulled the fire alarm, so we went into action for a fire drill. so we all were leaving our classrooms, going out to the football field. and then about five minutes after that happened, some teachers started letting people know that it was incorrect and to get back to class and people started to run back to the rooms. and about three minutes after that, the principal came on and said, this is not a fire drill. we are in lockdown. and then i'd say another two minutes she came on and said,
there is an active shooter. we are in lockdown. >> so you're in lockdown. you said it's yourself and teachers and students all together. can you give us sort of -- what is the mood of the people you're with right now? is everybody fairly calm and just waiting for information? >> fairly calm. some upset. some people are brothers and sisters who they couldn't get ahold of who were at lunch. yeah, we're just trying -- seeking correct information. >> and obviously yours is a school that does allow -- well, are students allowed to have cell phones in school? some here in new york don't allow -- >> yes, you can have a phone. it just has to be not used during instructional time. >> so students and teachers have been able to contact their families? >> yes, yes. >> and law enforcement has not called in to you. have you been getting continual instructions over the pa or are you basically in a wait mode right now? >> we're in a wait mode. >> you're in a wait mode. jim, i want to ask you to comment on this a little bit. it does -- it's a terrifying situation when you're just waiting on information. would it be typical for law
enforcement to try to contact -- there are students outside who may know of students in, but would it be typical for law enforcement to call in and give information to those on lockdown? obviously, they don't know what's going on. >> right. law enforcement is probably not going to be too much of a position to give information other than to stay in place until they can locate the shooter. the best way for this to transpire, though, is for schools or klee colleagues like this, businesses to have a plan that when you're locked down in a certain office or like the teacher is there, that they call out to a place. for example, it might be the school board. so the school board has a central place. each teacher calls into the hot line or e-mails in and says, we are at classroom 12, we have 36 students safe. this is the teacher's name. we're barricaded here. we haven't heard anything. it's great intelligence. i mean, if every teacher sent that in, pretty soon, the police have a picture of where
everybody is. as you're developing your plan, that's a great way to do. >> let's go back and talk -- you said you heard the principal come over the loud speaker and said, this is not a drill. had there been procedures given to teachers for situations like that? if so, what were they? >> yes. we're in lockdown. you're supposed to go outside, grab any students near your door, pat everybody down, lights off, blinds shut, paper covering any open window area that does not have a window covering. and shut the lights off, perimeter of the room, lay down. >> and so you -- >> and wait for further instruction. >> so at least you had some instructions. for the students that are with you, teachers that are with you, do you have a sense that at least you know what to do from here? >> yes. yes. >> and has the principal come back over the loud speaker? have you gotten any further? how long since you've heard any information come over the pa?
>> i'd say it's been at least 20, 25 minutes since we heard anything. >> what part of the day were you in? this was about 10:45 in the morning, right? >> well, we were on a lunch, but we were on a shortened day. school was supposed to get out at 12:15 today, so kids were either at lunch or in fifth period class. the day was -- >> go on. >> pardon me? >> i'm sorry, i interrupted you. you said you were on a day where many of the stints were at lunch? >> yes. it was first lunch. we have two lunches. that is supposedly where the shooting happened, in the cafeteria. >> do you hear any activity in the hallway right now? >> no. we don't have hallways. we're like buildings. >> so, you're in -- >> we have separate willing buildings. >> you're in separate, individual buildings? >> yes. >> do you have a sense of what's going on in the other buildings? have you been in contact with any other teachers who were in separate buildings from you? >> no -- well, my brother teaches here. he's in a building aways away.
he's in lock down. i talked to the teacher next door. the kids are watching tv on their phones, watching the kids being evacuated from areas. i haven't watched the news, but -- >> yeah. obviously, your instructions would be, as we can see, students are being loaded onto school buses for those who are watching. you can see partial evacuation/partial lockdown going on. students let out of the building have been. you can see them getting onto buses. the fbi is also on the scene or on the way to assist with the investigation. this is considered at this point an active shooter investigation. they're trying to locate any suspect and run down the information. we are speaking with carrie austin, who is a teacher at marysville-pilchuck high school, one of the teachers on lockdown with some of the students who she says were at lunch at the time the principal came over the pa system and announced this is, in fact, not a drill. so, your instructions, carrie, as you've been briefed on how to handle a situation like this, even though the kids can see on their phones, can see as you
said through social media other kids rbing evacuated, your instructions are to stay put until authorities come to get you? >> correct. yes, we're not leaving until we've been told to, somebody comes to the door, somebody calls my room, yeah. >> and about how many students and how many adults are there with you? >> 36 students, 3 adults. >> 36 students and 3 adults. from how many classrooms? >> i have no idea. like i said, we were on our way to report for a fire drill. and once the kids realized it wasn't, my room is very close to the football field and the kids that had lunch, some of them said, where do i go? so, basically kids just came to whatever room they could find the quickest. >> and did you hear any shots being fired? did any of the students with you report anything happening? >> i don't think anybody here heard anything because we were all on this side of the campus. and none of us -- well, some were at lunch, but not that i
know of, no. >> but obviously -- jim, i do want to keep you involved in this. this sounds like a school that did have smart procedures where the teachers and the students obviously very well briefed on what to do. >> excellent procedures, in my view. what carrie just described there is exactly what you want to do. they practiced it. and also the leadership changed from the fire drill to the active shooter, which is a very good maneuver. the shooter can pull the fire alarm and make everybody stream out, or someone else can pull the fire alarm and both of those scenarios have happened. so, when the principal understood that it was not a fire, that it was an active shooter, they immediately went to lockdown. sounds like the school is doing all the procedures, they've practiced them. carrie's doing the right thing. the thing is to stay there, lay low, be quiet. it's good for the students to look on their phones. it's great intelligence to see the television. just keep all the volume down, stay quiet. you don't know where the shooter
is. you want to just lay low until the s.w.a.t. team gets there. >> carrie, have you been on the phone even with 911 to be able to relay some information you're giving to us, to law enforcement? >> no, i haven't been on the phone with any law enforcement. >> and have any of the students or other adults with you done so, called into law enforcement to give them information? >> no, no, no. >> you're saying where you guys were, you didn't hear anything, you just went into drill mode because you heard the fire alarm and -- >> yes. >> you heard it's not a drill, you're in lockdown. >> correct. >> you're basically waiting? >> correct. >> i don't know if you can see the feed as well, jim, but you can see law enforcement running across the parking lot. now you see people gathered, obviously, in a field nearby the field. is the correct procedure to not let people actually leave campus? don't police need to have some of those students, some of those teachers actually there on site to be able to talk to them and to be able to get additional intelligence from them? >> well, exactly. they will, joy.
that's secondary to, you know, locating and isolating the shooter. the investigative, you know, functions will transpire. and as long as those students are safe and if they've been told to stay there by officers, you know, they believe they're safe, they're going to be able to interview them later. they want them nearby if they want to interview them. they'd also be allowed to go home because they know their identity's in a closed facility, you know, like a high school. but carrie is doing the right thing. and law enforcement, if they don't isolate this guy quickly, will use the information from people like carrie to find out where everybody is. maybe they'll find him quickly. maybe he's already down. maybe he's already trapped and isolated. we just got to kind of methodically go through. these are the right procedures to do, as care rir described. >> we want to reset for our viewers. we're monitoring a possible school shooting, the marysville-pilchuck high school, 30 miles outside of seattle. it's currently in lockdown due
to an emergency situation. police and emergency services have responded to the school. the lockdown procedures will remain in effect at marysville-pilchuck until further notice, according to law enforcement. carrie, just want to get a sense of -- you're obviously in there since about 10:45 this morning, 2:45 our time. 10:45 pacific. as you just await information -- oh, i think we might have -- we might have lost our contact with carrie austin. we'll just stick with you, jim. there is that weird -- this partial situation where they're taking so many students out of the school but the decision to keep this set of students and teachers on lockdown in a site where they said they did not actually hear gunshots, what's the procedure for methodically evacuating that school? >> yeah. the people that we're seeing evacuated, joy, are most probably people the police have been able to get behind them. in other words, they've been
able to move into certain areas of the school, probably responding to the cafeteria, because that's where the reporting -- reported shooting was. and people they feel are safely in their rear, they would evacuate. and then people that they hadn't been able to safely clear yet are people like carrie and the students still there. so, the question always is, where is the shooter? and, you know, we don't know if the officers have them located or not. if they do not have the shooter located or shooters, there could be more than one, they have to really go on a methodical search through the hallways, the buildings, rest rooms. you know, they're doing everything to find the person. that's the critical point at the moment, to find who's doing the shooting. >> okay. let's hold on a second for me, jim. i want to bring in our affiliate king 5. our affiliate who is talking to some parents who are actually on the scene at this high school in -- near seattle. >> school buses are arriving and
kind of staging in one area. presumably to take students or parents to a location for them to meet up with one another. >> ted, we're just getting word that our helicopter might be moving to providence hospital in everett. possibly some of these victims may be taken there. that's why that helicopter f you're looking -- these are not live pictures but if you start seeing that live picture move away from the high school, it is going to be heading over to providence hospital where we're trying to track those patients potentially coming in to the medical center there this is video f you're just joining us, of earlier when you can see students being escorted away from classrooms. they seem to be moving in an orderly fashion outside of the school onto a field where ted land just filed that report. he talked to a parent who said that their son or daughter heard
gunshots inside the cafeteria. a scary situation for those students at marysville-pilchuck high this morning. >> we anticipate that any victims of this shooting will go here. this is a live look from sky king providence medical center in everett on the west side of everett. so, we're keeping tabs on providence as well. we're also -- you know, if you're a parent. this is your worst nightmare. we're just finding out that don't go to the school. what we're hearing is from a lot of sxarnts reporters on the scene, is that students from marysville-pilchuck high school are getting on school buses at the school and going over to a catholic church. we believe it's the roman catholic church at 116th and 51st avenue, a couple of blocks away where there is a large gathering right now. so, if you're a parent in the marysville-pilchuck school district -- >> as we're continuing to follow this possible school shooting at a high school north of seattle, i want to bring in anthony roman, security expert. you know, this is obviously, as
the reporter just said, a parent's worst nightmare. and the procedure now is to tell parents not to come to the school, not to add more people to the scene. i'm assuming that's why they're telling parents to meet their children in -- to meet their young people in a different location. >> that's exactly right. what we have here is a massive multi-acre, multi-building complex. so, this is an extremely complex search. the local police department there is only about 18 officers. so, you probably have six or so on duty at any given time. they would have been the primary responders. then supplemented by the county sheriff department and the state police and then the fbi. so, the good news here is that those village officers were also cross-trained as special weapons and tactics officers. so, the first response was probably a very credible response and where they secured the location and began the
search procedures and evacuation right away. >> and they obviously -- the authorities in the seattle area had, unfortunately, some experience in dealing with this as we are looking at the hospital where potential victims have been taken. seattle pacific university was the site of a school shooting where a gunman killed one student, wounded two others on june 5th. unfortunately, they had very recent experience, tony. >> yes, i'm afraid so. i'm afraid this is almost becoming epidemic throughout the united states and becoming commonplace. far, far too commonplace for anyone's taste in this country. we were just talking at msnbc yesterday about the level of security at schools, at malls, at public gathering places, that it's just not measuring up to the current threat. and i think that this is -- this is a wake-up call. we need a really serious re-evaluation of security. >> absolutely. jim, in addition to that, you do
have the prevalence, obviously, of guns in this country. it's interesting washington state has two guns on the upcoming ballot, and the election is coming up november 49, according to nbc political unit, we have initiative 591 that would prevent the government from confiscating firearms without due process and prevent statewide background checks unless a federal standard is established. and then there's another initiative. initiative 594 that implements standardized background checks prior to any gun purchase, including private sales. obviously, this is still unfolding, jim. we can't have a conversation about school shootings without talking about the country's gun laws. >> well, that's right. it's going to come up. it always does when we have mass shootings. there's some good ideas. background checks, i think, 99% of the country supports. those are good things. school shootings, what i've found over the years working them and also, you know, all the ones everybody's looked at, often is a -- the gun comes from
a home or a relative or a friend's relative. so usually it's a child can't buy a gun. you know, federal law does not allow a person to buy a handgun unless they're 21, long gun unless they're 18. they can get a gun from a gift from a parent, say f they're 15 or 16 they could use for hunting or target shooting. a lot of times these guns come out of the dresser drawer at home. the gun is unsecured. the 15-year-old has trouble. he's not coping. he has some reason he thinks he should shoot people. and he grabs the gun from his fathers, grandfathers, uncle's bureau or his hunting rifele and takes it to school. we could really drop down the incidence of these in the country if everybody would lock up, responsible people lock up their guns from teenagers and children so they can't have them except when they're under supervision and hunting. it remains to be seen where he got the gun. it could be a stolen gun from a complete stranger. it could be a lot of things.
but quooef seen in other school shootings oftentimes when the children are younger, the guns are coming from the home. >> all right. jim cavanaugh, thank you very much. we really appreciate your insights. as we're watching, these might be file footage. my producers can update me on this. this might have been a few minutes ago, students actually coming out of school. the marysville-pchltd ilchuck h school. we also showed you apparent victims being air lifted to providence regional medical center. shots were fired at the high school about 10:39 this morning pacific time. which is almost a quarter to :00 eastern standard time. tony roman, what does it say for investigators, the teacher we spoke to on lockdown with 36 students and 3 adults, and still on lockdown, this was not a normal school day. this was a shortened school day. students were at lunch. would that indicate somebody with knowledge of a changed
schedule, potentially somebody actually linked to the school because this was not on a regular schedule? >> that's very difficult to say, joy. we really can't predict because we don't know the motive of the shooting or the identity of the shooter. really an investigation has to be conducted into their background, who they are, what their motives were, looking at their computers to understand why they did what they had to do. >> tony, it's interesting. this is a pretty large school, 2500 students at the school. and the teacher that we talked to said that students were actually watching what was unfolding on their phones. and yet the students, even though they could see their classmates, their friends leaving the school, really disciplined in staying on lockdown. and essentially also we have the students that are leaving the school are being taken offsite. they're not actually meeting their parents on the school grounds. they're being cleared to a nearby site. talk a little about that, the
procedures that allowed students to remain on social media, even though they could see students are leaving the school. do we still have tony? i'm not sure we have tony. i'll update you with the fact that students who are leaving the school are being evacuated to a nearby church. parents of students who attend this high school are being told not to come to the sdool meet their kids. students will be taken to a nearby church where parents can meet their children. i want to bring in former fbi profiler clint van zandt. as you're watching this unfold, does the way this unfolded early in the morning, 10:39 in the morning on a nonregular school day, students at lunch sdshgs that tell investigators anything at all or is the investigators just in the mode of find that shooter or shooters? >> well, many times we found out statistically that these school shootings have taken place right away. if we have somebody who's brought a gun to school, psychologically, you know, they're ready to move forward.
they're ready to do something usually we have one shooter. of course, we have the examples of columbine and a few others. but usually we have one individual who does something like this. and as you've been discussing with my friend, jim cavanaugh, schools, police departments, sheriff's departments, the fbi, they go through these drills all the time. as one of your other guests said, this is not an uncommon occurrence. >> unfortunately. we want to report to our viewers president obama has been briefed on this school shooting. shots fired at a high school north of seattle. president obama has been briefed. we're getting reports from our affiliate, king 5 near seattle, there are hundreds of students on lockdown inside that school despite those pictures that you're seeing on your screen of students being evacuated. it's a school with about 2500 students. clint, how unusual that you still have hundreds of kids inside. you have a combination of an evacuation and a lockdown.
>> well, have you three choices as i think you discussed earlier. the ideal with schools across the country in an active shooting situation and the first is you can run. the second is you can lock yourself in a classroom. and the third and worst case scenario is that you can fight. can you find a reason to go up against a gunman. i think that is why and i think it's a bad idea, but that is why schools across the country are considering the idea of arming teachers. i think it should be a resource officer, a police officer or a deputy sheriff, someone whose job it is to carry a gun as opposed to ask a teacher to do it. >> indeed. let's go back to our affiliate king 5. i think the picture on the left are the church where students are being taken to meet their parents. let's listen to our affiliate and get update. >> on the edge of being frantic because she has not been able to reach her son. now she is i think proceeding to the church you mentioned where perhaps she'll be able to meet up with her child.
i just talked to a teacher who was inside the school when all of this happened. he was on the radio out here talking to a couple parents and he let them know police are currently at this moment going room to room, trying clear out the kids who are on lockdown. they are trained -- the students were trained at least to lock themselves in the room. make sure there is a way for them to just stay put and not go out into the hallways. that process, from what i can tell, is still continuing because the teacher is on the radio telling us this as he's going past. and so, that may be why some of these parents have not yet reached their children is because the kids are trying not to make too much noise or because the police have told them to just stay put in the classroom. still an ongoing situation with a lot of parents gathering outside toward the edge. i'm looking at the field now and several students are starting to kind of walk toward the edge of the field. >> we are watching -- the pictures you see on your screen
is a church near marysville-pilchuck high school where shots were fired earlier this morning, about 10:39 a.m. pacific time. there is an active investigation on the scene. students evacuated to that church in order to meet with their parents. it's a school of about 2500 students, 30 miles north of seattle. hundreds of students reportedly on lockdown inside that school, even though many students were evacuated. we spoke with a teacher, carrie austin, who was on lockdown, continued to be on lockdown with about 36 students and 3 sdaulad. she told us the principal came over the pa system. they initially heard a fire drill. then when the principal came on the pa, the principal said to them, this is not a drill. they immediately went into lockdown mode. as you heard our local reporter state, they went into the procedures they were trained to do, to lock themselves in, to stay low, to cover the windows and to wait for further instructions. she had not been in touch with law enforcement.
we learned president obama has been briefed about this incident. clint van zandt is still with us. we're going to hand this over but we'll continue coverage of the school shooting. stay tuned for continuing coverage from marysville, washington. stay with us and we'll continue to have more. >> we continue to follow breaking news here in "the cycle" this friday afternoon. i'm toure. as we come on the air, we're getting new information by the minute about that shooting at a high school near seattle. right now campus remains on lockdown. we don't know how many shots were fired or if there were any victims. we are being told the suspected shooter is dead. students have been seen walking out of their classrooms, gathering in groups outside. they're now being taken to a nearby church to meet their parents. that's the church we're looking at right now. police are on campus securing the location. let's start with msnbc law enforcement analyst jim cavanaugh, a retired atf special agent in charge as well as a
hostage negotiator. jim, it is always hard to see you on days like this, when we have our schools seemingly attacked by some person, some outside person coming in and bringing a gun into the school. >> that's right, toure. it's heartbreaking again. all too often, we all know, but it seems like the school procedures have done a lot here to keep a lot of people safe. we don't know if the shooter's a student. we don't know if the shooter as an outsider. but the school procedure, the principal's quick thinking from changing this apparently from a fire drill to an active shooter, to put everybody in lockdown looks like it's going to be some smart money here. so, some good things are coming amidst all this bad news as well. >> and how do they balance all this? we're seeing kids that have been evacuated. joy had on a teacher who was on lockdown. we reported that the shooter has been shot but in the process, as they're trying to find the shooter and dealing wit a