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i absolutely have no second thoughts about it. i think this is a policy that will become a national policy sooner than later. >> i don't want to be directly criticizing the decision that was made. we have to be careful that there are unintended consequences. >> unintended consequences. concern this afternoon over mandatory quarantines for ebola and workers returning from west africa with some states taking matters into their own hands. meanwhile a nurse who was in mandatory quarantine, even after testing negative for ebola slamming authorities for the way she's being treated in new jersey. in the grips of isis. a new york times front page report gives us a chilling account of oh life as an isis
hostage including a behind-the-scenes look at the complexity of ransom payments. ayman mohyeldin joins us right here. jeb bush, the dynasty. his son revealing how his dad's big plans for 2016 and what they look like. i'm richard lui. a testy debate in the united states is where we start. is it fair to impose mandatory quarantines? is it an over reaction. one just back from sierra leone after being the first to be put into the state's mandatory quarantine. it is still held in new jersey after testing negative for the virus. she said she's been treated like a criminal. here's chris christie. >> i believe folks who want to take the step and are willing to volunteer also understand that it ises in their best interest and the public health interest
to have a 21-day period thereafter if they have been directly exposed to people with the virus. >> the federal and state guidelines are out now. in three states -- ill, new jersey and new york -- when we talk about who, health care workers returning from west africa. what, mandatory quarantine regardless of symptoms. duration, 21 days after arrival. for the federal government, who, all passengers arriving from west africa. requireded to report temperatures and symptoms on a daily basis for 21 days after arrival. that's a basic break down. in new york, the doctor who has ebola, dr. craig spencer is ernting the next phase of the virus which makes the condition worse before it gets better, hopefully at this moment. mayor bill deblrks asio will visit the hospital. dr. spencer got a transfusion from nancy writebol. she contracted the virus and
survived. dr. spencer's fiancee will self-monitor for three weeks. with me now is the white house. we go to the white house. kristen welker is there. and from the harvard school of public health. i understand you have new information from the white house and the response to mandatory quarantines. >> well, the new york times is reporting that federal officials are in contact with officials in new york and new jersey urging them to reverse the mandatory quarantine. i reached out to sources here to confirm that. it's consistent with everything we have heard coming from the administration. dr. anthony fauce saying the quarantine could disincentivize workers to treat people who are suffering with ebola. it is the administration's belief that that's the key to dealing with the crisis to stop it at its root in west africa.
in the region now traveling with my colleague chris jansing trying to determine what's needed to deal with the crisis there that's claimed nearly 5,000 lives. one of the main messages from the obama administration is that the international community needs to step up efforts. needs to do more to send health care workers to west africa to the heart of the crisis. that's the only way this is going to be contained. the obama administration opposed the mandatory quarantines. still trying to confirm that breaking news. >> let's build off what kristen is recording there. dr. anthony fauce was on meet the press responding to this issue. calls for a nationwide standard for mandatory quarantines. let's listen to that first. >> there are ways to ratchet it up. there is passive monitoring. you take the temperature.
if anything goes wrong, report it. active. report it to someone. then there is direct active where someone comes in and takes your temperature. that's all short of quarantine. >> what is the right kind of quarantine? >> richard, you asked is it fair to the health care workers? i don't care about fairness. what i care about is it going to protect the american public? what's the optimal thing to do? it's very clear that quarantine will leave us much worse off than what we are doing now. i think active monitoring, direct active monitoring, two different notions, both reasonable. we should debate who, how much. this quarantine thing goes off the deep end. i don't know any public health expert who thinks this is a good idea from protecting the american public. >> what about the mix, the tension we were describing between federal and state guidelines and regulations now.
what will that mean to on-the-ground practitioners? >> it clearly creates confusion. what happened in new york and new jersey is the city public health department was clear. it seems they didn't think a quarantine was necessary. no one thinks the quarantine is a good idea. the state officials, governors decided to go off on their own without consulting scientists and take this draconian step. while it seems reasonable it leaves us less safe than if we took a different approach. >> we have spoken about this for a couple of weeks now. that's the ebola response coordinator. it was debated whether there should be one. one was named. now he's out there working to coordinate issues. some might question what we are seeing across different states and the federal guidelines that more coordination is needed here. >> that's right.
ron started meetings at the white house and dove in. his role, richard, is to make sure all the different agencies at the state, local, federal levels are communicating with each other. there is a big disconnect now. this coming week there will be a lot of oh pressure to resolve this disconnect. i wouldn't be surprised if he would travel to new york or new jersey, for example. we should say no plans that have been publically stated at this point in time. there was a hearing at the end of last week on capitol hill about the federal response to ebola. he didn't testify. there will be a lot of pressure to do so next time there is a hearing. at least update the public in some way, shape or form. his role isn't to be a public point on this. mostly he'll be behind the scenes. there is going to have to be
improvement in getting different agencies on the same page within the coming days. >> kristen is saying in the coming days we might see more developments as you look for more clarity in the state versus federal guidelines. what would you prefer? what agency or individual would you prefer to lay out what's required and who should be doing this? >> this is a role for the cdc. they are trying to set federal guidelines. this is a big issue. getting the input of dr. fauci who is credible. other public health experts are necessary. we've got to get our policy right. there is a global health crisis now in west africa spilling into the u.s. we have to have a strategy for putting out the fire in west africa. right now we have states, cities
doing their own thing. it's not coming together as cleanly as it needs to? >> thank you very much for your time. >> thanks, richard. >> as we mentioned for the first time since the ebola outbreak a member of the cabinet is on the ground. u.n. ambassador samantha power landing in guinea. chris jansing is in the capital of guinea with her exclusive interview. chris? >> i'm where dr. craig spencer contracted ebola in conkary. certainly gives urgency to the trip. she's worried about it requiring a three-week quarantine. worried that health professionals like dr. spencer won't want to come to the region. she called the new regulations not well thought out. >> people in this country have fear of the unknown. fear of ebola. >> reasonable fear.
>> is there good reason? ebola is an epidemic and why president obama is leading the world trying to ensure we can stop it in its tracks which we know we can do based on past experience but which is challenging and something that's got thn big. we cannot take measures here to impact the ability to flood the zone. i think we have to find the right balance between addressing legitimate fears people have and encouraging and incentivizing heroes. they are heroes. american heroes. we have to incentivize that and find ways to do it while ensuring that the american people feel safe. they feel safe over time certainly is when we beat this thing at the source. we need the american people as a whole. we need to make clear what the health workers mean to us.
how much we value their contribution. >> is your family nervous about you going? >> i have a 5-year-old son. he's newly obsessed with "bola." he hases a new interest but said he's proud of mommy and all the other people trying to help. >> proud of you but nervous? >> he's 5. he's nervous. >> what did you say to him? >> if you take precautions you can minimize the risk. along with the rest of the crew. >> addressing the fears we hear from her little boy and the fears here, too. when we were driving from the airport. a nerve center in guinea where calls come in and there is rapid response teams. we'll have more throughout the week as we travel with
ambassador power. >> thank you. senior white house correspondent there and msnbc exclusive. that ber view with ambassador power. as the u.s. ramps up air strikes against isis. new report offering a chilling behind-the-scenes account of what hostages are enduring behind enemy lines and the efforts to rescue them. ayman mohyeldin is back from the mideast. he joins me on set to discuss. zt personalized services for your family and your business that's 100% guaranteed. so go to legalzoom.com today for personalized, affordable legal protection. ur day to unplug. with centurylink as your technology partner, our visionary cloud infrastructure, and dedicated support, free you to focus on what matters. centurylink. your link to what's next. i wish... please, please, please, please, please. [ male announcer ] the wish we wish above all...is health. so we quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies.
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this article came out today. the times shows what the 23 western hostages known to have been taken by isis, most from europe, had to endure in that time. 23 western hostages from 12 countries. five of them were executeded. two are americans. 15 were freed for ransom. we have been watching james foley. let's talk more about it with ayman mohyeldin. you spent 15 years in the region. this article, very long and extensive. what surprised you. >> the tremendous amount of detail. that's a lot of good solid reporting to piece together not only the accounts from the journalists that have been released or have been released. but to get accounts to the article from people who are very close, particularly even some of oh those that may be considered
as captors. >> you spoke to kasig days before everybody had last seen him. for you, a lot of the details are personal then. >> absolutely. he actually knew and was particularly close to a lot of journalists in the region. a few days before he went to syria i was on beirut on assignment. we got a chance to get to know him, his personality, what drives him. when you see and hear these accounts about how the hostages were treated and are being treated it hits close to home. >> the article lays out how they are treated, tortured throughout months if not years here. it seems to mirror allegedly what the u.s. is doing with their detainees in iraq and in guantanamo bay.
that's what the article says. why might that be the case. >> the practice in guantanamo and abu dhraib, areas run by the cia, they were stories used across the battlefields. not only to recruit to show the fighters what the united states was doing. now they are trying to reciprocate to show them what it felt like to have these individuals in captivity abuse and torture them without much international outcry. they are trying to illustrate what the united states was doing and try to reciprocate. >> the numbers that came from the report we were describing, 15 of the hostages freed on ransom is what they are they are reporting. the issue has been debated in
recent months, especially. i will quote from foreign policy. they say the white house is forcefully opposed to ransom payments when foley and sotloff's families raised the issue a member of the staff felt obliged to tell them they could be prosecuted if they attempted to pay a ransom for their children. the debate over. >> it's legal from a parent's perspective. i'm not a parentment i can imagine you would move heaven and earth to rescue your sonnen and get them out of the situation. you would do anything you could goat them out. from the government argument this would put a premium on american citizens. i would say we have to see the hard data. you have to assume europeans are being captured more than americans are. they are more likely to cost a ransom.
that's hard unless you look at the data. if it is a matter of principle to give money that ends up in groups that are terrorists you should raise questions about the government dealing with organize ohzations like they did to secure the release of bo bergdahl. in a situation of war, enemies neg i yat the capture all the time. >> it jumped out of the article. it's about two and a half hours for each freed hostage. if 15 were free, close to $40 million. that's a big amount of money. certainly part of the discussion here as we look at how well they are functioning and funded. >> absolutely. isis has this as a major source of revenue for the capture of foreigners. the issue of capturing foreigners, not necessarily isis.
sometimes they are betray bid people in their circle. they are ultimately kidnapped and sold to organize ohzation thars more politically motivated to do something having foreigners. this ises a lucrative business. you see some being released. others are unfortunately being killed for specific messaging. >> a compelling article to you and others. especially those who report to the region. you have done it for 15 years now. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> ayman mohyeldin with us to give perspective on that. >> an update on the victims for a search for motive after friday's school shooting in washington state. with the midterm elections over
a week away are the lines blurring between ebola policy and politics? we'll ask the brain trust. s, ex. we need to do something different. callahan's? ehh, i mean get away, like, away away. road trip? double wings, extra ranch. feels good to mix it up. the all-new, fuel-efficient volkswagen golf tdi clean diesel. up to 594 miles of adventure in every tank. we (cha-ching!) (cha-ching!) many empt(cha-ching!) it felt like we were flushing money away. mom! that's why we switched to charmin ultra mega roll. it's charmin quality and long lasting. with more go's per roll, it pays to use charmin ultra mega roll. charmin ultra mega roll is 75% more absorbent so you can use less with every go. plus it even lasts longer than the leading thousand sheet brand. for us, mega roll equals mega value. cha-ching! we all go.
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residents in washington are mourning as the motive behind the deadly high school shooting is unclear. four teenagers are hospitalized as the community searches for answers. two of the students,s 14 years old, are in critical condition. nate hatch seen on the right, is in serious condition. is a-year-old andrew freyburg in the center is in critical condition. the shooter is on the left-hand side. the four wounded teens were among the victim. a girl was killed at the scene. police say freyburg died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. u.s. marines in afghanistan oh officially over. the u.s. and british flags were
lowered and foldeded today 13 years after the united states longest war started. in new york, mayor bill deblasio is expected to visit craig spencer today. dr. spencer is now receiving plasma from ebola survivor nancy writebol. his fiancee has been allowed to return home under quarantine. incredible pictures from hawaii as kilua is spewing lava. and jeb bush, his son george p. bush gave insight on his father's decision on abc's this week. >> i think it's more than likely he's giving this serious thought. >> he'll run? >> that he'll run. i would have said it was less likely a few years back. getablet chicken.
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with se of the health care workers in texas, with the cdc shifting protocols we had people infected with that. we can't have it in new york and new jersey. that's why governor cuomo and i agree. this is a policy that will become a national policy sooner rather than later. >> that's new jersey governor chris christie. talking about his state's quarantine of health care workers returning. here's where americans stand on ebola according to a new poll. 49% tracking news about ebola closely. 20 points higher than those who say they are following news about isis in iraq and syria as a comparison. let's bring in the brain trust. nbc news senior political reporter perry bacon and national press secretary krir sten kukowski.
we have a high powered brain trust. perry first to you. is this the october surprise. >> it is an issue going on in the campaigns. there are a lot of debates now. candidates are being asked about it. if you look at the polling data, gallup did a poll. it showed 37% of republicans felt like the government did a good job handling ebola. 71% of democrats. that tells me people are viewing this in a partisan lens saying if you think president obama does things well, handles ebola well and if you're a republican. i don't see a huge shift. >> i think it's part of a much larger issue that the democrats are facing. the sense of discomfort whether it's the economy, ebola, isis and general security issues.
it's not the driving force. it's something weighing on their mind. i think one thing when you look at the polling is where this might matter is with independents. the democrats in iowa, colorado, north carolina. they are already starting to go with the democrats and independents. they are going to be a key factor in the coming days. >> you know this. as you were putting together the exit polls. pollsters put together those questions. you normally have an open spot for a late-breaking piece of news for that exit poll. is ebola now is front runner for that spot. >> i think clearly now ebola is a front runner for that x spot on the issue agenda. i agree with both my panelists, perry and christian. i don't think this will be the driving issue on november 4 or the nine days before november 4 for the voter who is have early
vote states. i don't think this is what they vote on in the choice for governor, senate or congress. what i think happened, it's drowned out some of the other stories that could have been out there to influence voters. in the nbc news wall street journal poll we took last week the ebola crisis was the number one paid attention to story in over five years domestic or international. >> this is from governor scott. their mandatory health monitoring. he says, quote, the state level out of an abundance of caution in much needed risk classification information from the cdc. coming from not only the governor but a candidate. as you know well, it's a close race. are we seeing the issue that fred is describing? let's talk about the issue.
let 's make it part of the election. it pushes away other issues that may move the needle the way a candidate doesn't want it to move? >> you see the governors, andrew cuomo, chris christie. they are not worried about the politics. chris christie isn't on the ballot. you are seeing politicians, it will be better to over react than under react. one of the criticisms is president obama tykes too long. they want to see if they are in front of the issue and they seem in front of the issue. quarantines and travel bans aren't a good idea. we should be careful not to mix policy with politics. >> is this issue over politicized? is there a concern that the direction and focus of what needs to be done -- the cdc,
ebola response coordinator. all of the efforts being made, now it's being redirected away from where the energy needs to be. >> i think a lot of it, what can government help us with. that's a good conversation. >> maybe what he was going to do to be on top of the issue. >> fred, is there an issue in the past that might parallel what we are seeing now here in october? >> i'm sure there is. kirsten and perry can probably think of one also.
there is a foreign policy crisis that just pops up. issues like ebola, events like ebola are probably going to be par for the course for the 21st century. we have cyber crimes. we have terrorist issues all over the world. i think that what's surprising about elections actually is when there is not an october surprise. in terms of the little b s of t- little bitzation of this issue. >> there is a picture of nina pham with the president here. they embrace each other. what's your thought about that? >> the president is trying to reduce -- you know, make people feel calm. the whole idea of bringing her to the white house is the president of the united states is here with someone who had
ebola. he is not concerned about that. >> the president is trying to communicate most aren't in danger of contracting ebola any time soon. does it matter in this politicized universe? i'm not sure. hurricane sandy happened near the 2012 elections. that was a big surprise. i would argue again did it change many votes? i don't think so. i think obama was going to win and still won. >> kirsten, i will shift gears a little bit here. less than two weeks before we have the midterm elections.
five are within the margin of error now. again, too close to call. what do you take from the latest pieces of information about -- again, less than two weeks. it is within the margin of error. >> i think it's going to be very close. i think that's where our ground game and the people we have had out there working for us, talking to voters for the last. we are doing much better than we have historically. we shouldn't have a conversation about being ahead of the democrats. that's spectacular for us. colorado, same thing. if you look at polling from this morning, what i alluded to is where the democrats stand with independent voters and i think that's going to be a very big deal over the next nine days. >> what are you watching? you heard the results we have from the poll. >> i'm watching as kirsten said.
we look at the same numbers and trends. the vote among independents will be important. the other thing we are looking at also again based on the national polling we have done for nbc news. i do think for the next nine days the big determinant factor in the erectilection is the gro game. the stuff that's happen ing every single minute of every hour, day is who gets to the polls and which party is working hard to get people to the polls. >> perry, dig into that big chest of information you have. which one characterizes what's happening during this midterm election. >> the big of shift has been kansas. you saw initially it looked like
the independent greg orman could win the state. the polling is moving toward pat roberts. that's big. republicans can hold the seat. that's a big one. the other thing, if you look at polling in iowa. new hampshire. colorado. those are three states obama won decisively in 2008. the republican could win. that's the story of the election. independents going down enough to where the democrats could lose in three states. i would have said they would have won and now they might lose. new hampshire probably not. iowa and colorado could lose on election day. >> it's go time. thank you for stopping by today for the brain trust. really giving us keen insight into what we are saying today. appreciate it. let's flashback now. it was 13 years ago. president bush signed the
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more now on this. u.s. marines and british forces today ending their combat on oh radiations in afghanistan. 13 years after the united states longest war began. the moment was marked with a formal ceremony turning over camp leatherneck, a large base, to afghanistan forces. it was headquarters for 40,000 troops and civilian contractors. many returning troops from afghanistan and iraq faced a difficult transition coming home to the united states. the defense department says it has now recognized the urgent need to reduce suicides among current and former service members. in 2013, 474 service members including active forces and
reservists took their own lives. defense secretary chuck hagel said last month we must rededicate ourselves to actively working every day to watch out for each other and take care of each other. a managing editor from foreign policy has a new book "the invisible front, love and loss in an era of endless war." yochi, thanks for joining us today. my producer and i were talking about your book. it is tough to make it through halfway without being struck emotionally here. >> thank you for having me on. this is a war that hits home. we think of the afghanistan war winding down. we know two bases were closed. the iraq war is over. there is a third war waging. more americans have died by suicide. more american troops. than have died in afghanistan. to my mind that's a staggering number. so we think of soldiers being
killed by the taliban, dying tragically in iraq. we have a larger number of soldier who is come home haunted by demons, fighting wounds you can't see. in the end, losing those fights and taking their own lives. >> the way you characterize it for us as you tell us a story about the graham family. a family with a long military tradition here. the father and the two sons. tell us what happens there. >> you have a father who served in the army and was a rising star. he planned to stay for a couple of years and stayed 34 years. he was a two-star general. his two sons wanted to follow him. they thought it was the highest service you could do. one was about to enter the army and took his own life abruptly which sent the family into a tail spin. a year later the other son, jeff, who was already in the army was leading his men on a foot patrol in iraq. saw something suspicious, turned to tell the men behind him to stay back.
what he saw was a buried bomb, it blew up killing him. his men survived. so you have a family with this unimaginable tragedy of losing both sons trying to figure out what to do with the loss. how to find purpose. the purpose they found is to fight against military suicide. >> then you follow them. you describe how the two deaths were treated differently. >> the son killed in iraq was treated as a hero. thousands of people lined the roadway to the cemetery. he was front page news in kentucky. you had hundreds of strangers at the funeral. kevin, who killed himself, even the family wanted to shush it a little bit. they weren't sure if he should be given a memorial service in a church. they thought he sinned by taking his own life. people would say to the parents, jeff, your son was a hero. they wouldn't talk about kevin. they would pretend he never lived which made the pain all the more sharper.
>> this is a book that you spent a lot of time on. you're on a beach where you understand the military infrastructure quite well. as you know, secretary hagel promising a change in the military culture on suicide. are we likely to see a change in the way it's treated? >> for a long time soldiers who said, i have ptsd, i have nightmares, depression. they were seen as cowards, as weak. there is more acceptance that wounds -- even if you can't see them -- are real. ptsd doesn't go away. you have soldier that is come back. they may look fine today. five, ten, 20 years from now the ptsd will flare up. we would like to believe as afghanistan ends, iraq ended, the casualties, physical and invisible will stop. these casualties may still be occurring for decades into the future. >> a very important read. 300 pages. the invisible front. yochi dreazen.
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see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. a new scientific innovation that's turning mind reading into a reality. it's today's big idea. it may sound like science fiction, but a group of scientists were able to accomplish one of the first instances of brain to brain communication by using a digital connection linking their brains, people thousands of miles away were able to send greetings to each other. one person in india known as the word "sender" was hooked up to a -- while three other people in france call the word recipients, they got the messages and had to interpret those words based on some flashes that they saw. joining me right now is a neurology professor at harvard medical school. he recently published the
results of this experiment. and i was thinking here that you and i would do this interview by attaching a wire to your head and to mine. >> sounds great. >> would you like to do that? >> it'd be hard for the spectators to understand anything, but we may get the message across to each other. >> this is really dynamic. do we get the description right? and if we did, give us how this works that allows us to function? >> yeah. you did get the description perfectly correct. and what is going on in our brain when we think of something to say, even before we say it is the same brain activity as when we actually go about to say it. and so if we're able to capture the brain activity and decode it, extract it from the brain and send it across distance, we can figure out a way to convert it to a signal that we can inject back into the recipient's brain. that's what we did. capture the thought process of one person, convert it with a
computer program into ones and zeros, a binary code that will send over the internet. and then, binary code was converted into a robot guided stimulation in the brain of the recipient. and so the recipient experience flashes of light, or not, that the ones and zeros of the message being sent over. >> i want to play a little bit of tape here. and then i have a question for you. let's watch this. >> okay. >> yes. >> okay. so that was that communication happening right there. and heard some tics. how can this help in communicating? >> the clicks you heard were the brain stimulation pulses being delivered to the recipient. as the current passes through the coil of copper wire, it's
external to the head of the person, it induces that clicking noise. and what the person was responding, yeses and noes to was whether or not a perception of a little flash of light was evoked by the stimuli or not. >> there's something moving around, behind his head. what is that? >> the thing moving around the head is the robot that holds a coil of copper wire that is targeting different locations of the brain. so as to evoke the force field or not to evoke the force field. >> got it. and those things on the glasses that he's wearing there, those are where he sees the flash of lighter? >> no, those are actually the type of reflectors that are necessary so that we know exactly subject's brain rather than on the head, we're targeting with a coil. we don't want to do surgery. it's noninvasive way. we need to register to his or her own brain mri. and this is a way to navigate the brain space. >> fine and dandy, what are we going to do with this?
>> so right now, it's a very early proof of principle. it illustrates the fact that we can send messages across, we can decode the messages, convert them into ways of stimulating specific parts of the brain and evoke in a controlled way perceptions, experiences by the recipient that can be translated into understanding of what the message was. obviously, it requires a very fancy complex system. and the question is can we ultimately scale this down in such a way that it might be able to be done with a much simpler streamline technology? it's a very early proof of principle guiding the path hopefully to overcome problems of people that cannot communicate by speech or offering other ways to communicate. >> yeah. just a little bit bigger than a google glass i'd say at this moment. who knows what can happen in the future. thank you so much. a little mind reading today with just wires attached.
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