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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  October 27, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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me, it turns out, he really meant the ultimate version of breaking. >> it certainly seems so. we also know from a good deal of research that the type of stole his girlfriend, being his relative, his cousin, so close that he called his cousin his brother, has been shown to be tremendously pernicious with regards to jealousy and the type of jealousy that could lead to a jealousy-fueled homocidal rage. >> we don't know the dynamics of this. it could be he wasn't really involved with her but wished he was involved with her, but that seems to be there's something in this area that is explanatory of what happened. barry, thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> kris hayes is up next. >> tonight on "all in." >> stay at home for 21 days. we'll pay. enyour family and kids and read a book, read my book. >> backlash to the ebola
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quarantine. >> this will become the national policy. it's smart and common sense. >> this as a nurse who returned from west africa was held against her will in isolation at a newark hospital. >> i feel like my basic human rights have been violated. >> tonight, she is finally out and ebola-free. >> what happened with nurse hickox was unacceptable and was unfair to her and disrespect toll a hero. >> then, bush 2016? >> it's more than likely that he is giving this a serious thought that he will run. >> the bush family eyes the white house again. plus, the surprising reason behind the dead heat in the georgia senate race. not surprising. how liquid hot mag -- magma is threatening to disrupt elections in ohio. "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. a nurse who was held against her will for three days in a
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mandatory quarantine is finally free tonight and heading home. while the governors whose brand new ebola policies put her there find themselves under fire. friday afternoon, governor andrew cuomo of new york and governor chris christie of new jersey announced a new policy, a mandatory 21-day quarantine for anyone who had contact with ebola patients in west africa. the new policy was created apparently with no consultation with the federal government or the cdc some without even bothering to inform new york mayor will g deblasio. i happened to be speaking with new york's health commissioner that night, and when i asked her, it seemed that she, like the mayor, only found out about the new policy when it was rolled out. >> the newly announced quarantine would have applied to dr. spencer. you views on that policy today. >> just made late afternoon, and as you point out -- we don't heave anything in writing yet so i'm looking forward to seeing
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the written document. i've been assured by the state hasn't department, the commissioner,'ll have a chance to look at it. >> don't have anything in writing yet. the policy went into effect immediately and kaci hickox was the first person ensnared by it. there's dispute over whether she had a fever. hickox saying the only reason she scanned a fever is because she was so stressed out by being forcibly quarantined against her will. at the time, even governor chris christie said she was not symptomatic. >> today a traveler arrived at newark international airport, a health care worker with a recent history of treating patients with ebola in west africa but with no symptoms. her home residence is outside of this area, her next stop was going to be here in new york. governor cuomo and i discussed it before we came out here. and a quarantine order will be issued, either here in new york or in new jersey. but we have agreed that quarantine is the right way to go.
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>> because of the new policy, kaci hickox was taken from new york airport to university hospital, put in this isolation tent, and almost immediately the backlash began. the white house pushed back, citing concerns about unintended consequences. an happy to fauci explained the potential problem. >> the best way to stop this epidemic is to help the people in west africa. we do that by sending people over there. not only from the u.s.a. but from other places. we need to treat them, returning people with respect and make sure that we -- they're really heroes. the idea we're being a little bit draconian, there are other ways to protect. there's monitoring, direct monitoring, there's active monitoring. >> new york city mayor bill deblasio, had this to say about the quarantine today. >> what happened with nurse hickox was unacceptable, and was unfair to her, and disrespect follow a -- disrespectful to a
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hero. there are ways to update our strategies that are thoughtful and careful and based on signs. >> the nurse, kaci hickox, spoke out, writing an editorial and giving interviews and hires lawyers inch the midst of that the governor's policy and tone on quarantines shift el -- shifted. governor christie changed his tune while insisting he hadn't changed anything. as he explained while campaigning for governor rick scott in florida today. >> i didn't reverse -- why are you saying i reversed -- [inaudible] >> if she was continuing to be ill, she would have to stay. she hadn't had any symptoms for 24 hours and test evidence negative for ebola. no robe to keep her. the reason she was put in the hospital in the first place, she was running a high fever and was symptomatic.
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so if you have -- if you live in new jersey and quarantined in home -- you live outside the state we're not letting you go on public transportation. makes no common sense. >> despite the christie-cuomo debacle the contagion appears to be spreading to other states and the cdc recommended four categories of risk assessment, and nurse hickox is on her way to maine. joining me now is an attorney for kaci hickox, steve hyman. can we start at the beginning. >> start wherever you want. >> this photo, you took that -- >> i took that photo. i suddenly have a new career. >> instantly iconic: when she arrives in newark, to the best of your knowledge, how did this go down? i'm imagine something kind of public health miranda moment where they take you and say you have the right to remain silent but -- >> they didn't tell her
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anything. as i understand it. they removed her to a separate cubicle where they started to interrogate and ask her to remain, and then the moved her to a room where they took her temperature with laser measurerrer -- >> those things we see in the airport -- >> right, which we now know is unreliable. >> or not -- nowhere near as accurate as the more standard way of doing it. >> correct. as i understand it, the first time they took her temperature it was normal. she was ven kept -- then kept there, interrogated told she couldn't leave and people were coming in and asking her questions, and then they took it again and it showed, 101. and then they came in with the hazmat, the ppe, is how -- >> personal protective equipment. >> right. and they moved her to university
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hospital in newark, new jersey, where they took her temperature orally, as is the normal case and it was normal. >> there's dispute about the temperature. you just heard chris christie saying he didn't reverse his decision on anything. is that true. >> of course not. he reversed it completely -- but he is maintaining she was ill. he continues to do that even though the doctors at university hospital have said she is fine. she is no -- no reason for her to be here and they are -- said she is not sick, she is not symptomatic, she should go. >> so, you're saying chris christie was lying just now -- >> i don't want to -- he is playing his political role. i'm not interested directly in the attack on christie other than the fact that he hurt someone who did good and did well for the country and for the world by going to sierra leone,
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and he essentially locked her up in a tent that she couldn't leave. >> which had no -- no shower in the tent. >> that's correct. it was -- >> strikes me as particularly not thought out. >> not the kind of quarantine isolation chamber one would see in the movies or one mass bellevue. this was a garage type facility, large facility, hat tents, had some guards and people from the hospital there. the hospital people were really good to kaci, but the circumstances and how it was handled was terrible. >> what legal authority was this being done. >> look, there is a recognize from the supreme court, a case called jacobson venezuela massachusetts, there's a
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recognized right of the state to protect and keep people from infecting others. but it has to be based on medical fact, not on as the supreme court said and other courts, fear. what you -- >> that was in the opinion? >> that's correct. and so you have to deal with medical facts. once there is an issue of medical fact here, this case falls apart. >> because there was no support among -- bass she was not actually symptomatic, and secondly because there's very little support among leading experts for this kind of quarantine. >> there is no -- other than the politicians who have come out in favor of this. we have cuomo, christie, others saying this is the way it should be handled, and they are not doctors. >> how is kaci doing now? >> she is -- i spoke to her. i have not seen her. norman and i are in contact with her. she is doing as well as could be expected. she needs some as we call it r
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and r. she needs time. >> are you going to move forward with the lawsuit. >> at this point the initial lawsuit was the habeas to get her free -- norman thought we should do that. >> how? >> call the jail, call the guantanamo, indicate christie's isolation cell, and they would have to be a hearing, would have had to be at the tent since she has a right to be present. >> i don't understand why she was let go. >> and medical facts had to come out, and doctors, cdc, they all are uniform in the fact she is not contagious, she is not symptomatic, there was no reason to keep her, and the worse thing is what the governments have done, other than the present administration of obama, has
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infused this fear factor. so i had colleagues who say, you were there. i'm not going to touch you. foolishness. that goes to the extent of complete hysteria. >> steven, thank you very much. governor como and governor christie share a lot more than outsized egos and the hudson river. they're simpatico political operators and the team effort and the scent no retreat retreat. governor cuomo who had sold only 945 units of his brand new book, some opportunity to move some profit. >> i'm asking those people who were in contact with infected people, stay at home for 21 days. we will pay, enjoy your family, enjoy your kids, enjoy your friends. read a book. read my book. don't have to read my book. but stay at home for 21 days. >> youing me now brian murphy,
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former manager partner of now assistant professor of political history at brook college. these two guys, you could write a whole movie about andrew cuomo and chris christie. this just embodied their two leadership styles so much, which was kind of this, screw the experts -- they didn't even tell new york city what -- they didn't seem to consult with anyone. >> right. we know best. it's shocking. the difference in tone between the event that cuomo and chit chit did on friday compared to what christie -- compared to what comb cuomo and deblasio did could not have been more stark in one event, the city event, all about the health experts. >> technocrats -- >> and then it's exciting for me because i see the deep history of new york city's public health infrastructure rear its head and come to -- >> which is an amazing thing with an amazing history. >> right. then on friday you see everybody
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panic, and then -- they'd only announced -- christie only announced the state's plan on the 22nd of october, and made it -- gave -- theirses -- nurses union at that event, only three hospitals named. they were in the process of getting their people trained and then they did the tent in the empty building. >> i find the politics, independent over the policy, is remarkable because it was almost like this woman was just staring death in the face for a month in the heart of the worst epidemic happening in the world right now. she comes back -- chris christie thinks he is going to bully here and she is like, i'm not scared of you. i was just dealing with ebola ebola. >> and now christie is taking heat from the right for letting her go and caving. rush limbaugh criticized him for caving into obama. you could takeway -- takeway the partisan aspect. just the fear is enough to drive
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conservative votes in a mid-term. >> right. because this is fear of cells basically. >> also this aspect of christie trying to get some cede with the base on the right and establish himself, and even this wasn't enough. seems like the right warnedded him to keep her for 21 days even though she wasn't sick, just to sort of stick it to obama and give everybody a story to talk about through next tuesday. >> over the course of this week, you saw this fascinating jurisdictional political wrestling match, and you saw it -- i submit you saw it at the first fresh -- press conference in new york, the mayor speaks first but the governor speaks for longer, and all this stuff looks like to me as an observer, it's being negotiated behind scenes in quite agranular fashion. >> among two people who, it's no secret, they don't get along well in this case deblasio -- maybe the first important time, too -- deblasio, christie,
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cuomo, deblasio clearly the winner in the sort of who is responding rationally and acting responsibly game. >> right. public health contest. >> that this has become. the dry run for how you handle an actual epidemic crisis in the city and state. >> you wonder, how much of the walkback -- i found it interesting. both men are nor -- talking about chris christie and andrew cuomo -- very similar personalities and leadership i styles -- they're not admitting they're reversing themselves. >> never even. use no mistakes ever. >> no. >> brian murphy, thank you so much. >> thank you, chris. >> one of the most invasive things the government can do to a citizen to detain you against your will. the question is when did the quarantine actually make sense? that's next. your customers, and all your data. cyberedge from aig is more than insurance.
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>> the biggest story of the election 2014 isn't the election. i'll tell you what it is ahead.
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>> a mandatory guerin is a big deal. important enough that two media savvy politics like governor chris christie and andrew cuomo would have done perhaps a little mow research before rolling out the strict quarantine policy but they did not. >> governor cuomo and i discussed it before we came out here, and a guerin -- quarantine order will be issued either in new york or new jersey but we agreed that quarantine is the right way to go. >> on friday, the governors of new jersey and new york issued a 21-day quarantine for select travelers returning from parts
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of west africa. the next day, they hit the campaign trail. cuomo, campaigning for his own re-eflex new york, and christie, stumping for others in iowa and florida. their announced policy left kaci hickox, 33-year-old nurse returning from treating ebola patients in sierra leone, stuck in a tent inside a new jersey hospital. no shower no television, no way out. leaving many with the impression the policy wasn't fully thought through. quarantine is an extreme step. the public health version of martial law, and it's been over 20 years since we have seen one of the scale of what the two governors had decreed, and it was for a disease far more contagious than ebola. >> doctors at new york's bellevue hospital say they're fighting a new epidemic, tuberculosis. >> in the early 1990s, tuberculosis rates in new york city war skyrocketing. vulnerable populations were getting sick. among them, the homeless, and
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people already infected with hiv. this put health workers at risk. >> skin tests reveal in many big city hospitals, one out of five interns and residents, is getting infected with the tb germ every year. >> to contain the disease some officials are considering bringing back the tb sanitarium. >> a quarantine policy for tb patients who failed to take their medication was debated for months and months and from september of 18993 -- 18993 do 19994. 46 tb patients were forced into isolation in a new york city facility. the policy was led by public health officials, with a system of checks and balances. patients had the right to a court hearing and five days of isolation. a lawyer paid for by the city, and court review every three months. there was, in other words, due process. >> our state has to be the most
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vigilant. >> but there is weekend the state of new jersey ordered a nurse into isolation for 21 days with no state appointed lawyer, no hearing, or process of appeals. of course, the move probably played well on the campaign trail. >> joining me now is the founding director of the division of medical ethics. also a bioethics professor. let me break it down here. what is the problem with a bit of caution? people, medical workers, exposed to ebola. throw them in a quarantine. what's the harm? >> one harm is if you keep doing that, who is going over there next? they're going to say, i don't think i want to get locked up in a tent in newark with no shower? i'd like to help people overseas and remember, if you and i aren't going to be sitting here talking about this ebola epidemic a year from now we have to stamp it out over there. that's where the -- >> the huge downside cost is if
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you disinnocentsite size people who are -- disinventivize people, treating people who have the illness -- we have seen our dangerous it is -- you're going to add on to that 21 days of mandatory detention, you're going to get a lot fewer volunteers going over. >> absolutely, and you make it 1 dives hellish detention, which that was in newark, who will volunteer? >> what is the thinking around quarantines more broadly? it's a fascinating question. this is a tremendous amount of power, an extreme measure, and in certain circumstances you can national it being absolutely necessary. >> almost hard to imagine that we have a law on the books that says, for the common good you can take away somebody's liberty we have had it back to the dives yellow fever to the days of smallpox. the classic is, the ships in the harbor, they think it's got a nasty bug on it. they detain everybody on the ship or dent let the shipy, this ancestor of the cdc power to
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control the airports, to control who is coming and going. states authority came from breaks that took place within a state or county, and that's one of the problems, doesn't look like anybody is in charge. the state over here, the county in dallas, the feds over there. >> what is the balancing test you go through when thinking about the possibility of a quarantine? >> so, for a quarantine, to take somebody's lisch, you have to say they're nonsymptomatic but could be infectious to somebody else and the price of that infection is high. keep this in mind. measles comes in from overseas no quarantine. many, many flu outbreaks. they start in asia, other places, australia. no quarantine. so, here we have a disease that has killed exactly one person. the flu i would give you 10 to 20,000 people a year. the balancing act doesn't seem to have been computed very well
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on ebola. >> you make a good point there, that if the test is they have to be ato symptomatic contagious, ebola fell right there. because it is the nature or the disease it is not as matter of biology asymptomly contagious. >> how do we know senate people keep texting me, how do you know? this is the sixth ebola outbreak since 1975. we don't know how to cure it or prevent it but we know how to get it. so, healthcare workers have been treating ebola patients in african countries for decades. it's hard to get. if you don't have that fluid exchange and they're not actively infectious, meaning bad symptoms and a big viral load, you're not going to give it to somebody else. a court looking at this is going to drove it out, boom. >> and blake wrote a piece this morning, said, okay so cuomo has reversed himself, as has
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christie but may have lost the experts and won the electorate. there's a lot of fear out there. is there a precedent in history where you have a public wanting stricter, harsher measures, and public health experts saying, that's not the way to go. >> yes. hiv. you're not going to live in my apartment. note going to send your kid to school. going to burp down your house. people went crazy and none of it made biological sense you. needed the authorized to step in and say this is transmitted by sexual contact. the guy going to school with your kid isn't going to do anything with your kid. >> pulling kids out of school in the face of children that had contracted it threw blood transfusions. >> it was crazy. let me get to one other interesting aspect about quarantine. you take your libertyway, presumes you're going to enforce it. say the nurse was in the tent and say the nurse came out of the tent. are we going to taser her? shoot her? have a cop in a moon suit tackle
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center one thing you have to think through with quarintine is are you going to enforce that loss of liberty? remember the newswoman came out and got to takeout, the self-imposed quarantine, wandering around princeton. i didn't see any of that in evidence at this press conference. >> arthur, thank you very much. >> my pleasure. >> why democrat michelle nunn suddenly might have a chance to win georgia and you already know the answer if you're a dedicated "all in" viewer. chnology partne, you can do just that. with our visionary cloud infrastructure, global broadband network and custom communications solutions, your business is more reliable - secure - agile. and with responsive, dedicated support, we help you shine every day of the week. centurylink your link to what's next.
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>> since 1983 the kilauea volcano on hawai'i has been spewing lava pretty much continuously, and luckily for residents closest to the volcano that lava has been heading for the ocean. but in june a new flow took a turn and with the temperature of 2,000 degrees fahrenheit, began heading for a nearby pahoa village. according to the "associated press" it's been moving toward town in fits and starts for weeks, speeding up and then slowing down. the hawai'i county civil defense agency says lava is moving at a rate of 15 to 20 yards an hour and between 35 and 110 yards wide. lava advanced 275-yard since yesterday and is now about a football field length away from the nearest home. evacuation notices went out to residents over the weekend, telling them to have all evacuation activities completed by tuesday, october 28th, which is tomorrow.
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>> plan to leave until the lava get there. have no place to go. we have no place to go. so, this is all we got. see what comes monday or tuesday. >> according to the "los angeles times," two unpaid escape road have been built because lava crosses the only highway in the district, it would largely isolate the people who live there with the mid-term election next week there's concern how the lava flow will disrupt voting. but hawaiian officials are prepared. the "associated press" reported last month voters in the area received absentee ballot applications in case they needed to flee and had a special early voting walk-in site last week. imagine state doing everything it can to make sure everyone can vote. isn't hawai'i whacky? k look at . nice day, beautiful tomorrow. tomorrow is full of promise.
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upset is the senate race in georgia. there are not a lot of people that saw this coming. it's true. democrats recruited a democrat with stunning name recognition, daughter of sam nunn but this georgia has supported republican candidates, and state where no democrat, not one, currently holds statewide elected office. it's widely seen at very, very tough terrain for democrats. in the last two weeks momentum in the senate race has seemed to shrift towards michelle nunn. a poll showing she has a small edge and if neither candidate gets to 50% it goes to a january runoff that could decide control of the entire senate. now, most on observer end have said it's because of of the
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opponent. the revelation when he was asked about outsourcing jobs in a deposition in 2005, he responded, this is concerning outsourcing -- yeah, spent most of my career doing that. that has not helped david purdue but purdue is not necessarily the real story. "the new york times" says the real reason for nunn improved standing this the pollsters had until recently been understating the black share of the likely electorate in jazz -- georgia. a group called the new georgia project which focuses on registering voters of color. as we first reported in june, the electoral map in georgia is favorable to democrats if only unregistered voters of color would come to the polls. >> there are 600,000 unregistered black people and 230,000 unregistered asias and latinos, and if we could just
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sign up 750,000 of them, it would be almost impossible for the republicans to win again. >> and joining me now, nate cohen. it was clinton who won georgia in '92. so, how important, just as a broad level -- when you're polling for mid-terms, how important is it in accurate polling, figuring out who is going to vote. >> the fatal mistake in a state like georgia, the racial climate is the entire ball game. >> that's the -- >> swing votes in georgia, nunn will get 20% of white vat and 90% of the black vote. >> how do pollsters do that? that seems like a very difficult project to predict the future behavior of people, particularly in a mid-term where there's a more variables. >> they start by taking a random sample of adults and that can be unrepresentative and they weighed that census target for the population inch georgia
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that's 60% white and 30% black. then they screen out the people who are not registered to vote and screen out the people who aren't likely to vote and that latter decision who is likely to vote is complicate. might depend on did you vote in the last election? last time wasn't as competitive. and whether i'm enthusiastic, maybe be very different than a swing voter. might not be veryber enthusiastic but sure to vote. >> pollsters ask a soars of questions the likely voter questions, like did you vote in the last election -- >> they change from pollster to pole at the and totally arbitrary. there's no science. >> this u.s. -- is art. >> in the public polling universe, the nbc poll, i'm not sure it's fair to call it art. they're doing the best they can but the data is just not very good to verify. you can't go back to these
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people whether these questions were representing their intentions and from election to election, which questions are predictive changes. >> here's my question i wasn't quite able to answer from your piece. is it the case that pollsters are looking at these headlines about these people who have been registered and are adjusting the weighting model according ly or they're going in the field and hearing more unlikely voters sound look likely voters and adjusting that way. >> for the most part it is not that pollsters are changing that assumption in georgia, seems more black voters or fewer white respondents are saying they're excited to vote, saying -- >> this is baghdad on their phone call. they have a certain of set of assumeses, they're getting feedback showing their old assumptions were not correct. >> that seems to be the case. >> we know there has been this big voter registration drive. there's this question of the 50,000 missing forms which could have a huge effect on the
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outcome if the kind of racial voting behavior you cited before holds. >> in a racially polar rised state of georgia, 40,000 unregister evidence black voters makes a big difference. white vote has declined to 57.8%. that it is why georgia is competitive today, and nunn looks like she has 48 or 49% of the vote. three million people turn out. 30,000 black voters aren't able to vote because their forms weren't processed, that's one percent. >> that's one percent and we also have the added 50% benchmark in this race, which makes it extra interesting because you can national a scenario in which someone comes within a personal of the 50%, which means avoiding a runoff or not, even if they're ahead. >> nunn is at 49. that's 30,000 votes, and that's -- those unregistered voters could loom extremely large, and end up going to a runoff. >> the avalanche of litigation
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and lawsuits if those are not processed is shocking. >> i actually don't know what the procedure is or what happens in that case. i think those registered voter forms have to be processed before the election otherwise they will be provisional ballots -- >> can you imagine provisional ballots and a runoff to decide the control of the election in georgia in january. >> very -- >> not far fetched. thank you very much. remember what former first lady barbara bush said when she was asked whether her son, jeb bush, should run for president. here's a reminder. >> i think it's a great country, there are lot of great families, and it's not just four families or whatever. there are other people out there that are very qualified, and we have had enough bushes. >> thanks, mom. seems she might be changing her mind. the possible reason next. [ male announcer ] if you had a dollar for every dollar
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so we're eight days away from the mid-term election and two years away from the next presidential election and it's the second race that appears to be driving much of the agenda on the campaign trail just over a week from election day. case in point, hillary clinton, who has been all over the country, stumping for democratic candidates and honing her message for an ever more likely 2016 run. a stop at massachusetts candidate martha coakley on friday. she made a point of embracing senator elizabeth warren. i'm into pleased to be herive your senior senator, passionate champion for working people, elizabeth warren. i love watching elizabeth give it to those who deserve to get it.
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and has recently gotten less definitive she wasn't running for president, was hammering already old opponent, scott brown next home of the nation's first presidential primary. >> i just want to be clear about scott brown and wall street. the part that says it most. you can do it two ways. either track the money and who his biggest funders are or look through the summary in forbes magazine that describes scott brown as one of wall street's favorite congressmen. >> jeb busch, -- jeb bush is looking like an increasingly likely 2016 candidate. according to reports, jeb is seriously considering a run and member ohio family, particularly the ex-presidents, on board. quote, george w. has beened a outspoken advocate of a bid. talking it up all the time. jeb's son, george' p. bush, told
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abc news the odds his father will run have increased. >> i think he is still assessing it dos. >> do you think more than 50% or less than 50%. >> more than likely he is giving this a serious -- >> more than likely he'll run. >> he will one. i if you asked me a few years back i would have said it's less likely. >> the family is behind him. >> 100%. >> the race in which the 2016 contest is playing the biggest role, this fall? where it's running into head-on conflict with the mode terms is in wisconsin, where governor scott walker is neck and neck with democratic challenger mary burke and he found the person to blame for his potential loss. new jersey governor chris christie, the head hoff the runs governor's associate who has every seemingly rope to let him lose. walker has been complaining about the rga's tv ad spending saying the out of state effort
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pales in comparison to what has been spent on the other side and while he appreciates christie campaigning with him, he is, quote, not looking republicans christie in the weekly standard suggesting that rga chairman chris christie mighting tanking walker, a potential rival for the 2016 republican nomination. they bring its total spending on walker's behalf to $8 million by the campaign's end, that's not likely to quell the backbiting it's already unleashed. uhh... um... hold on. introducing the all-new volkswagen golf. plenty of room for whatever life throws at you.
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your link to what's next. wethey were a littlehorizons to mbit, what they do actually is rocket science. but at ge capital we also bring expertise from across ge, like lean process engineers we asked who does what, when, where, and why that step first? ideas for improvement started pouring out. with a little help from us, they actually doubled their output speed. if you just need a loan, just call a bank. at ge capital, we're builders. and what we know... can help you grow. back. joining me now, anna greenberg. and robert cost anational political reporter for "the washington post." you've been doing a lot of report on this walker/christie situation which has gotten surprisingly nasty. what is the latest? >> there is real friction between the walker camp and christie camp. about an hour ago i spoke with
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several sources close to the republican governors association and both of the governors. on the walker side, they believe the 8 million set to come in, the $2 million in the final week for tv is not enough. walker will not say that clearly publicly. but privately he's super concerned about his race. the christie side, they are taken aback by walker's public pot shots. they think he should have done more in the summer and the fall to raise money. it doesn't seem to be end anything time soon. >> maybe scott walker isn't calling a press conference to say this but he's been pretty public. >> he sat down with me last week and said the rga is not doing enough. the rga says it's going to spend an extra million. for this to spill out into the campaign with a week to go is certainly almost an unreal surreal situation. >> one of the things about this race in wisconsin, what it shows to me at least is the fact this is a guy who has won two elections in the span of 3 1/2
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years in scott walker that if you thought this was going to be a wave election for republicans like 2010, wisconsin -- current wisconsin polling seems to show that's not where the electorate mood is nationally, even if democrats are kind of fighting uphill. >> that's true about wisconsin and many races. true, for example, of north carolina. it's true in other states like michigan. you aren't seeing either republicans seal the deal or you aren't seeing republicans winning in races that i think even a year ago people thought would be fairly easy for them to win. >> i want to talk about this jeb bush, peter baker front page piece. you are very well sourced in that world. is that broadly what you have been hearing about the kind of bush machine starting to gear up? >> i think the bush machine is starting to gear up. if you define the machine as the bush family. there's not a machine within the republican party necessarily ready to get behind jeb.
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i think what you are seeing is jeb sees an opening now. that's why he's making this kind of noise with his family and those close to him. >> anna, do we have polling about bush fatigue. the first response a lot of people have had to jeb bush is, you've got to be kidding me? are you kidding me? do we have a way of quantifying how much resistance, how defeasible it is? >> i haven't seen any polling that suggests there's bush fatigue. i think he's a good candidate for a primary field that looks pretty divided, pretty siloed. the tea party silo, evangelical silo. he's able to span a number of these silos. and his wife being latina. so i think if they coalesce around bush, he'll find a way to overcome the whole idea of bush fatigue. >> all bush talks about is high wants to campaign joyously.
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he hasn't been on a campaign trail in about a decade. >> there's no joy in the modern campaign trail. it's a joyless slog. it's a cruel, cruel undertaking. >> it is. and i don't see -- does bush have the energy, the commitment to go out to the grassroots in iowa, new hampshire, to just wait until florida? that didn't work for giuliani in '08. does bush have the energy? his family may be pushing him but does he have the energy and strategy to compete this year in this environment? >> i've long been saying because i've long been making this joke that jeb bush/hillary clinton is the election america deserves in 2016, meaning as a snapshot of a society that is no longer producing social mobility. that that would be a perfect icon of that. on the clinton side of that equation, is there -- elizabeth warren does seem to be moving in a different direction. we saw her in new hampshire. more equivocal about not running. what does the polling say about
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the possibility of there being really any legitimate possible challenger to clinton in that primary field on the democratic side? >> i have to go back and disagree with your characterization of hillary clinton who through both the campaign in 2008 where she almost won and her service in the obama administration as the first -- would be the first woman president, i think actually is in some ways for someone of a different jen wligs is older is forward looking and exciting even to progressives. i disagree with that characterization of hillary clinton. i haven't seen any polling in -- >> that may be true. and jeb bush is a very accomplished individual in his own right. the thought of having a bush/clinton election, that is really -- >> i was only disagreeing about hillary clinton. you can say whatever you bpt jeb bush. because of who she is and what she represents, she's something different while being a clinton. i think that's fairly unique to her. >> i don't buy this idea that elizabeth warren won't run.
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she's pushing hillary clinton to the left. look at secretary clinton's comments. she sounds more and more like an out and out progressive and that's because of the warren heat. >> do you think -- what do we know about name recognition in the modern campaign environment and how important it is in polling or in voting performance? >> well, it's really important. particularly in a primary because you don't have a partisan label to guard your voting. if you are in a parse context they'll get 7 % to 85% of their party's vote. name i.d. is everything. democratic primary voters are more likely to know who elizabeth warren is relative to other potential candidates because her campaign against scott brown was a national campaign. clinton will be better known than her, but i think elizabeth warren can hold her own. >> anna greenberg and robert costa, thank you. the "rachel maddow show" starts right now.
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>> thank you. we've got a big show coming up. we're going to be talking live with someone who has been living rnd a forceable ebola quarantine for the last 12 days. this is not anybody you have heard from before. they have never spoken publicly before tonight. and where this person is quarantined may really surprise you. so that's coming up in just a few minutes. that's an exclusive tonight which is a big deal. i hope you will stay tuned for that. we begin with major general daryl a. williams. major general williams served in the united states military for more than three decades. he's a two-star general. winner of the distinguished service medal, legion of merit, bronze star. major general williams is also the commander of u.s. army africa. he's the head of u.s. army operations on the entire continent of africa. if the u.s. saerm dispatched to any of the nations on the kontinent of africa, it's major general williams' job to make sure they have


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