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tv   Politics Nation  MSNBC  October 30, 2014 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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citizens united is going to be a long fight and there are some things we can do legislatively, but until voters ask their candidates to do more, that's what's got to be done. voters have to take a stand. >> thank you, sandra. good to be with you tonight. and we hope you're successful. way to stay in the fight. that's "the ed show." "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. >> good evening, ed, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, there's lots of buzz about governor chris christie not backing down from this exchange with a protester. >> do you want to have the conversation later? i'm happy to have it, buddy. but until that time, sit down and shut up. [ cheers and applause ] >> his response today is classic christie. we'll have that later in the show. but we start with tonight's lead, five days before the election, the republican in-fighting over the next
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election is bursting into view. today tea party senator ted cruz implying republican jeb bush would lose if he ran for the white house in 2016. >> jeb has not declared his candidacy. i like jeb. i'm going to let him decide if he runs first and let the primary voters make a decision, but i will say this. we need to learn from history. we need to look to history, what works and what doesn't. if we run another candidate in the mold of a bob dole, or john mccain or mitt romney, millions of people will stay at home on election day. if we run another candidate like that, hillary clinton will be the next president. >> senator cruz taking a swing at jeb bush and exposing the radicalism that the gop has been desperate to hide in the midterm. in 2014, republican candidates
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are as extreme as ever, even if they pretend not to be. in iowa, tape just surfaced showing gop candidate joni ernst in 2012 saying she carries a gun to defend herself from the government. >> i have a beautiful little smith & wesson 9 millimeter and it goes with me virtually everywhere. i believe in the right to sdfd myself and my family, whether it's from an intruder, or whether it's from a government. >> gop candidate corey gardner has been claiming he didn't really support a personhood effort to ban abortion, despite the existence of videotape like this. >> mr. gardner? >> thank you, i have signed the personhood petition. i've taken the petitions to my church and circulating it in my church. i have a legislative record that, ba up my support for life.
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>> in georgia, david perdue is trying to run as a moderate, even while he brags about outsourcing. >> you made a career out of outsourcing. how do you defend that? >> defend? i'm proud of it. this is a part of american business. >> republicans can run from their extremisextremism, but th hide it. it's a problem for them in 2014, 2016, and beyond. joining me now are dana millbank and jason johnson. thank you both for being here. >> hi, reverend. >> thank you. >> dana, we have to start with ted cruz and jeb bush. is this the basic gop split, extreme versus moderate, in the public view? >> or maybe it's extreme versus more extreme. it's interesting he was saying jeb was the model of a bob dole or mitt romney or john mccain,
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as opposed to the model of his own brother, george w. bush, who won the presidency twice. so i, i think this is just an early shot across the bow. there's little secret that ted cruz would like to run for the presidency. the republican electorate, the primary electorate has gotten it right and said we're not going with the most extreme character, even though they flirt with each possibility along the way. ultimately, they go with the most electable one. if they're going to beat hillary clinton, they have to come up with the most electable one, and chances are that's not ted cruz. >> jason, i see you nodding. what do you say to this? >> ted cruz came to the right conclusion, but for the wrong reason. in there was a bush against a clinton, clinton's going to win. we have better memories of the clinton years than we do of the bush years. the last time the republicans ran someone for president who portrayed themselves as a moderate, he won. george bush said he was
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compassionate conservative. it was bob dole, mitt romney, john mccain talked about the conservative bona fide. republicans need a moderate to go up against hillary clinton. a conservative will lose badly. >> you know, talking about in-fighting, dana, in an interview with "the washington post," gop congressman paul ryan hinted he might run in 2016. and he took a jab at his potential rivals who are in the running. all over the place they've been going to early primary states, he said, quote, i don't feel the need to be out there, putting my toe in the water. i don't see the point in it. it's not fun, and i don't think i neat to. i already know a lot of people in these key states well. they call me up, so i don't feel the need to have to chum. what do you say to that? now look at where chris christie is going in the next five days
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before you answer. he's traveling to 19 different states. >> is paul ryan taking a dig at republicans like christie who are way out in front of the 2016 primary? >> i don't know if he's taking a dig so much as he's saying, this is his own way of dipping his toe into the water without having to actually go through the trouble of racking up all those air miles. paul ryan has been a bit reticent saying, his future is going to be in the congress. so this is a significant shift for him. this republican field is very crowded and it doesn't really have any sort of a dominant figure. you can sort of picture the seven dwarves scenario here, although it seems like we're going to get rather more than that. >> jason, let's get away from the smoke and the tv ads. look at six gop candidates in key races. let's deal with real policy since they're just five days
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away. look at these positions. all of them oppose raising the federal minimum wage. all of them support repealing the affordable care act. all of them support banning abortion or placing strict limits on it. these are all candidates for the u.s. senate, all six of them. is this an agenda that can win in a national election? >> reverend, you're exactly right. i don't think this is an agenda that can win in a national election. it only wins in a local election when you don't talk about what you actually stand for. i think a lot of these republican candidates have managed to do the lipstick on a pig move, i'm going to put on a nice suit, use different language and no one's going to realize i'm in favor of personhood and have no interest in raising the minimum wage. you can do that here. but in a presidential campaign, you can't hide from your record, and that's going to be hard for any republican running for
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president. >> in these critical, national policy issues, this defines a lot of where the party is. can the party win in a national election, with these kinds of representatives in washington? >> well, that's the thing, reverend. when you cited there does not put them out of the main stream of the republican party. they'll fit right in. what's going to be interesting now, if they do take the senate, there's going to be a lot of pressure to bring up all of these pieces of legislation like personhood bills. now, of course the president will veto them, but that will establish much more of a contrast that, in a national election, in 2016, democrats will be able to say, this is what is going to happen if there's a republican president. he's going to start signing this stuff. so it creates a real contrast and that's why there's some argument that having a republican senate right now creates a stronger position for
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democrats in 2016. >> so, jason, as we are seeing all kinds of people, including us out saying, get out in vote, this is a very, very well defined election, because it's almost no mid ground here in terms of clear positions on very serious policy issues. >> right. look, most people if they're paying attention to this election, they know what these republican candidates are standing for. they know what these democratic candidates are standing for. the real issue is going to be, can people, will people turn out to vote? not only do we have clear choices on policy. but we have a clear choice on effort as well. some of the things in ferguson, missouri, and what happened in florida, should remind people to not just vote policy, but vote on the local level as well. your district attorney, your local sheriff, these races are important as well. it's not just national. it's local as well.
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>> dana and jason, thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> thank you, reverend. coming up, chris christie is responding to this. >> you want to have the conversation later? i'm happy to have it, buddy. but until that time, sit down and shut up. [ cheers and applause ] >> plus, the ebola nurse defies her quarantine, going for a bike ride. what do you think about it? and the king comes home. lebron james is back in cleveland. why it's bigger than basketball, and bringing a whole city together.
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spending decisions about our education dollars should be made by parents and teachers, not by politicians. tell tom torlakson to keep fighting for a plan that invests in our public schools. one of the biggest stories on social media today is about this. >> if you want to have the conversation later, i'm happy to
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have it, buddy. but until that time, sit down and shut up. [ cheers and applause ] >> today the governor is defending that response. we'll debate that in "conversation nation" ahead. but first, let us know what you think. keep the conversation going on our facebook page or tweet us, @politicsnation. (receptionist) gunderman group. gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money? time and money. awesome. awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! (all) awesome! i love logistics. what's in a can of del monte green beans? ( ♪ )
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african american voters. we've told you democrats see the black vote as their last hope to hold the senate. but in midterm years, black turn-out tends to fall. and just a few thousand people staying home could make all the difference. so democrats are doing everything they can to motivate black voters, including running ads like this, against north carolina republican thom tillis. >> tillis won't fight for us. instead, he made it harder for communities of color to vote, by restricting early voting and voter reg slation. tillis even led the effort to pass the type of stand your ground laws that caused the shooting death of trayvon martin. >> tillis was deeping involved in voter restrictions and he was leader of the house when the state passed its stand your ground law. but here's how one conservative group responded. >> have you heard this race-hustling kay hagan ad?
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probably not. because they're not running it on this station. desperate to hold on to power, obama, reid, and hagan, are shamelessly race-baiting. >> they're accusing democrats of race-baiting, but that's not compared to what we're seeing now in texas. ron nittin ski is a republican running to be dallas county judge. it's a democratic district represented by congresswoman eddie bernice johnson. here's what nittin ski said last year about congresswoman johnson's supporters. >> they don't want to motivate her voters. we don't need another 5 or 10,000 of her people to go to the polls. we want to them to think, there's no reason, she doesn't have an opponent, i'll go to the grocery store or whatever on election day.
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it's hugely offensive. but beyond the racially charged rhetor rhetoric, one thing's clear. he's afraid of black voters turning out. if they do, he'll lose. so will lots of other republicans across the country. joining me now is congressman emanuel cleaver, democrat of missouri. thanks for being here. >> good to be with you, reverend. >> congressman, you know, we rarely hear gop politicians talk openly like that, saying they want minority voters to stay home. doesn't that show just how important turn-out really is? >> absolutely. in fact, i think that's one of the great encouragements to african americans. if we will allow many of those individuals who are clearly trying to suppress the vote, speak more openly and clearly and give them opportunities to do so, i think that we're going to have a good turn-out. if you look at the turn-out in north carolina, for example. just to the sunday voting, 53%
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african american and 40 white. now the goal is not to have more black people vote than whites. the goal is to create a democracy where everybody votes. one of the great tragedies of this moment in history, in the world's leading democracy, we have people actually trying to reduce voter participation. and that's the great shame. and it's being done even more shamefully on the basis, in many places, of race. >> now, congressman, traditionally, we see a big drop in voter turn-out among blacks in the midterm. take georgia, for example. in the last two presidential elections, more than a million african americans voted in the state. but in 2010, that dropped to about 741,000. we saw similar drop-off in north carolina. what can we do differently this year? >> well, you know, i reached on sunday at a church of god and
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christ. one of the things i said to a black and white congregation, if you become angry at something, vote. you don't have to do anything stupid. you don't have to do anything dumb. just go out and vote. i think if people understand what is at stake, they'll go out and vote. if they understand that the minimum wage will not be raised to $10.25, should be about 15, if they don't go out and vote. if they understand there's no way we're going to be able to eliminate interest rates in college loans, they'll go out and vote for people who will. there are many issues that impact the whole community, but in some instances, the people who are the poorest, are going to have the most negative impact on them. so i don't think there's anything wrong with saying, get out and vote. and for example, i'm right down the street from ferguson, missouri. and i said to people there in
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churches where i preached in ferguson, you know, if you don't like what's going on here, if you don't like things that have happened, that there are no african americans on the city council, get out and vote. i don't see anything that's racist in that statement. >> not at all. we're seeing some interesting numbers from early voting. "new york times" found that black voters have made up about 27% of those voting early in north carolina and georgia. but this past sunday, as you stated, they made up 53% of all voters. doesn't that show how effective souls to the polls drives can be. >> and that's exactly why they're opposed to it. you want to talk about injecting race. african americans are connected almost insep reably to religious institutions, to their churches, as both of us, our lives have been committed in that
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direction. so if that's going to get people out to vote, why not have souls to the polls in every state in every city, so that we can maximize the american democracy. i think, if you look at the reality of this, that would be a reason to just have holidays on tuesdays when we have voting. or we get the greatest turn-out in the united states on sundays, then let's have sunday voting. whatever it takes to maximize democracy, so that we can boast around the world that the united states, the leading democracy, has a huge turn-out of voters. that means that they have embraced democracy. and we are, in this country, trying to suppress it. and most of it is done on the basis of race. >> well, i think mr. nattin ski down in texas answered that last point, congressman. thank you for your time tonight, emanuel cleaver. >> good to be with you,
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reverend. still ahead, think chris christie would apologize for telling a protester to shut up and sit down? think again. his response is next. also, spin cycle. should the bike-riding nurse be arrested for breaking her ebola quarantine? and backlash to the new victoria's secret ad. should women view this as the perfect body. "conversation nation" is ahead. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters shopping online is as easy as it gets. and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. we've made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. buy their services directly at no more calling around. no more hassles. start shopping from a list of top-rated providers today. angie's list is revolutionizing local service again.
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it's not just candidates on the ballot this tuesday, all across the country, people are voting directly on key issues. washington and alabama will both be voting on gun measures. colorado, north dakota, and tennessee have abortion rights
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on the ballot. connecticut, missouri and montana have important voting rights issues at stake. and five states will be voting to raise the minimum wage. in arkansas, over 70,000 voters came together to put minimum wage on the ballot with a petition. now, that's democracy at work. and there are important initiatives on the ballot in michigan and maine to protect animals. here's a tv ad that animal rights activists are running about inhumane bear hunting in maine. some viewers may find it disturbing. >> caught in cruel traps. suffering for hours. some bears even trying to chew off their own limbs to escape. eventually shot at point blank range. an execution. do you want to end this cruelty? >> these animals may not be able to speak up, but we can make our voices heard for them with our
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votes. joining me now to help explain these ballot measures is wayne parcely, president and ceo of the humane society of the united states. what's at stake with the bear-hunting issue in maine? >> in your set-up, you mention at the ballot initiative process has been used to drive reforms on a whole range of issues. that's certainly been the case with animal welfare. we've outlawed cockfighting in three states, the use of steel-jawed traps, extreme confinement of animals that we've spoken about previously. this year in maine, there's a measure to stop three bear-hunting methods. the use of bait, where people put out jelly donuts and other food and shoot the bears while they're feeding. second is releasing packs of hounds to chase the animal and terrorize the animal and shoot it out of a tree at point-blank
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range, which is the moral equivalent of shooting an animal in a cage in a zoo. and third, trapping of these animals. maine is the only state in the nation, 32 states allow black bear hunting. maine is the only one to allow all three of these practices. we're urging a yes vote to end these practices of killing animals for trophies. >> the people who are saying vote no, they're saying it's about controlling the bear population, that it's a large population and it's a nuisance. >> that's part of their rhetoric and fear tactics. that's the way they're trying to frighten people. remember, i said, of 32 states of bear hunting, maine is the only one to allow all these practices. somehow the other states are managing their bear populations without resorting to these unfair and inhumane practices. >> let's go to michigan on
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another issue of animal safety. there are measures on the ballot about wolf hunting there. only 650 wolves remain in michigan's upper peninsula. wayne, what are you trying to get accomplished in michigan? >> well, wolves just got off of the federal list of endangered species. and just as they got off, the state pushed a trophy-hunting season to really persecute these animals. no, no one hunts wolves for food. if someone is shooting a deer or moose and eating the meat, that's one matter and that's a pretty big tradition and it's pretty defensible. >> but just saying wolves attack cattle and farmers are upset about that, do they have a point? >> you can already control any problem animal. under existing law, you can kill
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an animal threatening cattle or public safety. this is about trophy killing, killing animals for no good reason. >> maine and michigan, it's very interesting. on the ballot, president of the humanine society, thank you for your time tonight. >> great to see you again. thanks so much for having me on. up next, chris christie defends his smackdown of a heckler. it's classic christie, you'll want to hear this one. plus, it's the most famous bike ride in america, but should that maine nurse be arrested for breaking her ebola quarantine. stay with us. (vo) you are a business pro. solver of the slice. teacher of the un-teachable. you lower handicaps... and raise hopes. and from national.
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live post caroline mod resy tehrani. the grill's chris witherspoon. and legal analyst midwin charles. thank you for being here this evening. first up, governor chris christie is now responding to this outburst yesterday in new jersey. watch. >> i'd be more than happy to have a debate with you any time you like, because somebody like you, who doesn't know a damn thing about what you're talking about, except to stand up and show off when the cameras are here. i've been here and done the work when the cameras weren't here. [ applause ] so i'm glad you had your day to show off, but we're the ones who are here to do the work. so turn around, get your 15 minutes of fame, then take your jacket off and do some work for the state. all you're doing is flapping your mouth and not doing
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anything. if you want to have the conversation later, i'm happy to have it. but until that time, sit down and shut up. >> sit down and shut up. he drew a lot of criticism today about his temper. david axelrod even calling out his soprano approach to politics. today the governor was stumping in new mexico for governor martinez and he was asked about it, and his response, which he posted on a youtube page this afternoon was this. >> if you give, you're going to get back. i love having -- [ applause ] [ inaudible ] but if someone's going to stand up and i ignore them for a while, and they continue to be rude and talk over me and other people, then i'm going to engage. and that's what the people of
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new jersey and in the country, have some respect for me. i don't look forward to it, but i don't shy away from it either. it's just another day at the ranch, rancho christie. >> he said he doesn't look forward to doing that stuff. what's your take, does he like it? >> it's hard to watch those clips, they still enrage me. but with that said -- >> it enrages you? >> it makes me angry. but i didn't know he posted it to youtube. when i heard he posted that clip to youtube, it makes me wonder, what's he possibly trying to see chris christie the bully come out? >> when you get chris mad, you might have lost the whole country. >> i think this is what we expect from chris christie. it doesn't surprise me. he's not going to win governor of the year, the kinder, gentler award of the year. this is what people expect had chris christie. i don't have a problem with what
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he said, perhaps how he said it is a bit much. there's no need to be rude to get your point across. >> now he's on the national stage, or he's trying to go there, will this play nationally, and how do you say sit down and shut up? does he say "sit down" -- sit down and shut up is sit down and shut up. [ laughter ] >> my issue is the way he said, i'm just engaging. you're not engaging. you're talking down to people. engaging is having a dialogue. if you're going to be running for president, that is something an example of somebody who wants to be running for president of the united states of erk ma. that's not engaging. >> and he's the only one that has the mike. so you can't hear what the other person was saying. >> why do the youtube? was he apologizing? was his people advising he walk it back? because they posted this on
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youtube. was this his way of walking it back? >> i think it was his way of invigorating that base that loves to see that. >> so he was digging in. >> he was digging in. >> i'm saying his point, i agree with his point. the way in which he conveys his point is completely inappropriate. >> and here's the thing, he might one day be our president. i don't want to see our president crack like that. he wasn't talking down. he completely cracked. there's no reason why at that level you should be able to behave like that. you know there's going to be hecklers, be prepared. let me move on to maine where the ebola nurse kaci hickox is defying her 21-day quarantine in a rather interesting way. just take a look at this scene. she decided to forget the quarantine and take a little bike ride. and she was joined by a swarm of reporters. i mean, is this a circus or what?
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she stopped to talk as she rode back home. >> there's no legal action against me. i'm free to go on a bike ride in my hometown. >> what does this add to the court order? >> i don't know. when you find out, you tell me. >> how did it feel to be out on the road? >> it feels amazing. >> you plan to go out again later today? >> we'll see. >> did you talk about -- >> no, i didn't. ted and i just said we want to go for a bike ride. so here we are. >> is that something that you do often? >> we do. >> thank you, guys. i have to go speak with the health department now. >> you were she of released earlier this week from the weird tent governor christie put her in in new jersey. she was released on the condition that she'd self-quarantine at her own home in maine. but despite having state troopers stationed outside her home, and threats of arrest, she's out for a ride today.
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the state is reportedly seeking a court order to force hickox to remain quarantined at home. this afternoon, governor paula page weighed in. >> i don't want her within three feet of anybody. >> what happens if she does? is there any legal ramificati s ramifications? >> let's put it this way. i'm going to use the legal provisions to the fullest extent that the law allows me. and i just hope that she recognizes that. i'm just asking her to be reasonable, let's get to november 10th, and then you can do whatever you would like. >> midwin, some confusion about this. can she be arrested for leaving the house? >> somewhat yes and no. i think what governor lepage is saying there, he does have legal authority, as well as the thrg to protect the well-being of the people of the state of maine.
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however, that authority is not broad. one of the problems that i think the state governors that are endorsing these mandatory quarantine and isolations, is that the science has to support it. if ebola is not transmitted from someone who is not showing any symptoms, then you cannot necessarily, by law, keep them in this sort of mandatory quarantine. i think that's one of the issues that the courts are going to look at. yes, there's a risk here, but how risky is it? when you look at the fact that thomas eric duncan was in an apartment with his family and girlfriend for four days after he showed symptoms and they did not get ebola, so there has to be facts when you curtail someone's civil rights. >> i think the science is very clear here. the only thing that's difficult for me, she's trying to represent how, or to express how
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considerate she's being, within her rights. this is a big civil rights issue for her. i'm going to expend my civil rights and this is the way i'm going to do it. it rubs people up the wrong way. people were really on her side, and doing something like this, i can it can divide a lot of people. >> seems to be a lot of passion on both sides of this discussion. >> i think we don't have the science figured out around ebola. there are a lot of question marks. with craig spencer, the doctor in new york, i wish he had a mandatory quarantine for 21 days, i didn't want him going bowling and riding the subway when he may have had ebola. >> but he's not contagious at that point. [ all speak at once ] >> the science is clear. and you can tell because only one person has died from it. >>. [ all speak at once ] >> this is not airborne. i think staying at home for 21 days these days is not that bad
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a thing. if she wants to call me, i can tell her some great netflix shows she can watch. >> but you're not the watch being forced to do it. >> there is a civil liberties issue here. the debate i'm hearing is civil liberties, but also do you consider the fright that people are legitimately feeling because we don't know that we're convinced of the science. >> this is a life or death disease. i think if people can die from a possible disease you may be carrying, just stay home. >> well, i think, rev, i agree with you. the science is very clear on this. what you're absolutely right in saying, there is a lot of fear out there. the american public still remain unclear. at that time, i think it's great if she were to abide by the quarantine, as inconveniencing as it is, and let the science speak for her. all the scientists are saying,
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quarantines are ridiculous. maybe the bike ride was a little bit too far. >> and isn't midwin, a lot of it is that people don't trust what we're being told what the science is? >> people don't trust what they're being told about the science. but they should look at the facts. thomas eric duncan, if those people who lived with him, did not get ebola, after he exhibited symptoms. >> and had he been treated, he likely would have made it, according to a lot of experts. >> there are some questions with respect to the level of care he received compared to the other people who have come down with ebola. but i think those are the facts people should focus on. and i don't think this woman civil rights should be curtailed because people are scared. civil rights are supported and backed by the constitution of the united states and we shouldn't think of them as being whimsical, or what have you, or bend them when we don't have the facts to support -- >> and carolyn, are we not
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setting a legal precedent for other things if we don't deal with the civil rights of this matter? >> i'm not a lawyer, but i think it's a fair point. maybe this is -- we got a lawyer here. but in terms of wanting to get out there and exercise your civil rights, yeah, she did the right thing on that score. whether or not it was the right thing politically, if you're looking at this from like a broader level, i'm not sure it was the right thing. but i back the science behind this. she's totally fine. she's taken two ebola tests. both are negative. people need to calm down. >> she was on a bike ride, she wasn't like in a gym or restaurant eating. >> remember, it's not airborne. >> agreed. >> but she was on a bike ride. >> but as reflected by the three of you, it is really something that has a lot of americans divided. and some holding opposing views within their own minds. >> absolutely.
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and i can understand that. i think when you look at the fatality of this disease, it is scary. i think over 50% of the people who contract this disease do die, but we have always encountered diseases that people have died from. aids was deadly as well, but we didn't quarantine -- >> i'm going to ask you to hold on. we have breaking news. accused cop killer eric frein is in custody, and has been captured by pennsylvania state police. confirming it, state police moments ago, say frein is accused of killing one state trooper and injuring another in early september. >> frein was accused of shooting those officers on the 12th of september. 48 days ago. he is now, according to state police in pennsylvania, been taken into custody and has been
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captured. again, frein in pennsylvania has been captured by pennsylvania state police. they confirmed he is in custody after a massive manhunt of 48 days in pennsylvania. let me bring in jim cavanaugh. he's on the phone and jim, what can you tell us? what's your reaction to this news? >> well, it's kind of like you, reverend, i'm relieved for everybody up in pennsylvania and certainly the state police. they've done a great job in this. they've caught him and he's alive, that's positive as well. and no troopers or agents killed, apparently from what we're heard. nobody seriously injured so far as we know. i think it's great law enforcement work all around. of course there will be a trial now and he's captured, so there will be a trial for the murder
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of corporal dix on and the wounding of the other trooper. so it's a big step forward and a big relief. >> you've run a lot of man hunts before, how did this one strike you? because it took a long time, 48 days, several sightings, and it wasn't over a huge area. how does this strike you how this was done? >> well, you know, rev, we talked last week on "politics nation," i think, about it. the key is that people in the area are working with you, they're on your side. when you have a case like that, and you have community support, going to catch him. the key element in this thing was the quick response by the police and the deputies to set up a roadblock right when the killing of the trooper occurred and to bring in the helicopter right away. those two things, the roadblock where frein had to turn around, and the helicopter where he thought he could see him and
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turned out his lights, caused him to drive his jeep into the pond, which wasn't in his plan. he likely planned to slip away without anybody knowing who he was. >> but the other side of that, doesn't it raise questions as to how someone that thought they were going to get away could escape for 48 days? are there things that law enforcement are going to study to make sure this doesn't happen again, where someone could be at large that long? >> that's right. it's very difficult. you're exactly right. i think the key would be to pick this guy up before something spilled out of his mind, or leaked out of his plan. because once he hits in the woods up there, it's pretty difficult to find him. you take so much manpower, like it did in all these days. this could have ended in more death and tragedy. so it's a very successful,
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patient operation. you know, justice is going to be served. >> hold on a minute, jim. i have former fbi profiler clint van zandt also on the phone. clint, you're hearing this news that it has been confirmed by law enforcement that frein has been captured. he's in custody, eric frein. a senior source said he was caught in a hangar at the pocono mountain airport. frein was not in a public area of the airport, and as we know, he was wanted for allegedly shooting two pennsylvania state troopers, killing one. your reaction. >> well, i was just listening. you're talking to my good friend. he and i have been in the trenches in a number of these situations. so we know what it's like. and you've reported on these for years, al. two things strike me. number one, we remember eric rudolph, the so-called olympic
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park bomber. this guy stayed a fugitive five years. and as you recall, he was apprehended dumpster diving about 2:00 a.m. in the morning by a local rookie police officer. well, where he was hiding, al, was up on a ridge top where he could look down on the strip mall. but he supposedly, some people suggest, had help from locals in the area. they supported what he was involved in. unlike this particular situation, nobody can support somebody who's killed a law enforcement officer in this case, and i think it goes to the tenacity too of law enforcement. people were suggesting he's in miami, sitting in a beach chair, watching this on a television. he's laughing at these things. and law enforcement said, you know what, we have an area, we're going to search this until we can prove he left the area, as far as we're concerned, he's still here. and they stayed at that. it cost them $1.2 million a week
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to keep this search up. but they got their man and as you say, they got him in a matter of, you know, a couple of months, not five years. so i think we learned from the eric rudolph case, and as you suggest, law enforcement will digest this, dissect it, they'll look at it, they'll understand how he avoided apprehension, and we'll learn from the next one. >> gentlemen, hold on a minute. we'll take a quick break and we'll be back. again, eric frein has been captured, wanted for shooting two pennsylvania state police, one dying. after 48 days, he is now in custody. we'll be back with more news on this right after this. i lost my sight in afghanistan, but it doesn't hold me back. i go through periods where it's hard to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. non-24 is a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70% of people who are totally blind.
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i've never felt so alive. get the future of phone and the phones are free. comcast business. built for business. we're back with breaking news. eric frein, who has been at large for 48 days, since september 12th, has now been captured and is in police custody in pennsylvania. wanted for shooting two pennsylvania state police, one fatally, and he is now in custody. he was captured in a hangar at pocono moun airport. he was not in the public area of the airport. let's go back to you, jim cavanaugh. seems like this was a very complicated, intense manhunt.
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it was not easy, but they never are, jim. >> no, they're always difficult, reverend al. just like clint outlined, the law enforcement study it, learn the lessons from it. not only are the citizens relieved today, but all the families of all those thousand law enforcement officers that were working to find him are relieved. they don't have to worry about their loved ones at least tonight, being injured or killed by eric frein. they'll have to go back to their duties in the next couple days, so it never ends for law enforcement. but this particular risk will be over. a great relief and a great job. and the trial to ensue. pennsylvania showed that it has good police. it has people that support what's going on. so it's all positive to have frein captured. >> isn't that part of the point, clint, that we must always look at the human side? the family of the officer that
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was killed, and how they feel tonight, as well as the family of the wounded officer. and the families who had to keep their children home from school. i mean, sometime behind the headlines, the human factor in this, the anxiety, the fear, we sometimes do not stop and think enough about. >> well, you know, al, if you think notwithstanding the loss of human life and the money that's been spent every day looking for him. it's the economic impact on that area. i mean, hunting season was canceled. people were going up to look at the fall leaves. they were told not to come up. motels, restaurants, everybody. everybody took a hit. it's almost like a terrorist walked into the area and set an explosive device off or something. because it stopped commerce in that area from taking place. so i think there's going to be a collective sigh of relief that he's in captivity up to and
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including this guy who alleges that he's been confronted by police over 20 different times because he's an eric frein look-alike. no longer does he have to be under that. but i think jim makes the good point. this guy is going to have to stand trial. no more can he play the games. people have said, why hasn't he shot anybody else? and i said, i don't think he has to. he did what he wanted to do. he's playing out this sophisticated, real-life paint-ball game with real bullets. he doesn't have to necessarily shoot anybody else. but in so many of these cases, al, that you've covered, you see they end in suicide. >> yes. >> or suicide by cop. in this particular case, he's going to have to stand trial and a jury of his peers, and be responsible. he's not going to hide, he's not going to be a hero. he'll turn out to be what the state police call him, which is a coward. >> a lot of fear in that
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community, jim. a lot of apprehension. and now as you've said and clint reminded us, now a trial. he will stand trial. he will have to be brought in front of his peers and be judged. >> that's right, reverend. the first step on the road to justice is the charge. the arrest of the person believed to be responsible, and that took a lot in this case to get that to happen. but that's the first step on the road to justice and they made it today. so i think everybody can breathe a sigh of relief. clint outlined it well. you've talked about the human factor. and you've seen that in so many cases, and you know from reporting on these cases, how when loved ones are lost, how it impacts the families, the community. so our hearts go out to the trooper's family that were killed and injured. and the whole state police
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family who suffered through this. but what a great job, super job, to find frein without more death. >> let me show the pocono mountain airport, this is the airport where a hangar is where he was found. he was not in the public space. 48 days, all kinds of intensity, all kinds of real hard police work, but he was caught. they did not turn around. they did not become deterred by the cynicism. they caught their man. clint, are you surprised? >> no, al. in fact, i'm glad they did. they've employed every technical device and every personal device they could. i think -- >> and no violence, from what we understand, no violence. >> yeah, no violence. and, look, everybody said this guy was a great mountain man, he's a survivor, he can handle
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the woods, living in a hole -- >> i'm going to have to hold it there, gentlemen, citing breaking news and thank god the families can breathe relief in that area tonight. clint and jim, thank you both. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. stay with msnbc for coverage. "hardball" starts right now. going to the mattresses. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews up in boston. the republicans are all of a sudden going at each other like rats in a hot tub. governor christie fighting with anyone in sight. acting exactly like a governor


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