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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  December 1, 2014 3:00am-6:01am PST

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the supreme court is going to hear arguments testing the limits of online threats. it's a very interesting case. we'll hear more from pete williams later this morning. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning. it's monday, december 1st. with us is mr. mark heparin and wes moore. we'll talk about ferguson, missouri, and later today president obama will hold ferguson events as the white house looks at handling the nationwide response. it comes after darren wilson resigned from the ferguson police force. >> what are you doing? >> you know what happened? you guys weren't here.
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they said, donnie, please read. i would love to do it. i want to wish everybody a happy post-thanksgiving. >> donnie, we've been here all along. >> i needed to do it. sometimes i hear the music and i need to just start dancing. it's that simple. >> he gave the guy five bucks and said to kill your miekes. >> i apologizapologize. i'll step back. >> according to his lawyer, we'll talk about it a little bit later. >> you guys are up in arms about some of the things that happened on the football field which we'll get to in just a second. >> i am. the whole thing in the media, you don't hear me usually blaming the media for stuff, but it's been extraordinarily irresponsible over the past several months and what the media has let pass as narrative, we saw play out yesterday on an nfl football field. >> i'm puzzled about it. i missed something.
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the guys coming out like this. >> guys came out hands up don't shoot for the st. louis rams. here's a video of it. and what is so remarkable is they might as welcome out with a flying saucer attached to all of their heads. that happened as much as that happened. that's according to grand jury testimony. that's according to witnesses. they are using his accomplice in the robbery that was with him at the time who also claimed that michael brown was shot in the back. and for some reason, the media attaches to these narratives that will stir up further protests. i got to say, i got to a tipping point this weekend. there's another story in cleveland where a young boy tragically was shot dead. police officers got a 911 call he was waving a gun scaring the blank out of everybody in this public park.
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police officers came up. stopped. shot the young boy. he was 12 years old. they had taken off the markings to make it look like a toy gun. it was an actual gun. do you know what "the new york times" put in the caption of the video. police officers shoot child with toy. i don't know exactly who puts those, attaches those, we are doing such a grave disservice to police officers in this country by pushing a narrative. they are going around looking to shoot and kill black people. somebody has to tell me, somethi somebody needs to tell me why michael brown has been chosen as the face of black oppression. i see actually a reverse of what happened in trayvon. right wingers cling to this
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nasty thuggish guy that chased a young black man through a neighborhood simply because he was black. he was guilty. trayvon was guilty of walking while being black. and my right wing nut job friends all embraced george zimmerman. if you don't think he's a thug, ask the women who lived with him. he's a thug. and right wingers embraced george zimmerman as a hero and in so doing, they humiliated themselves. there are so many great people to embrace as heroes in the black community that deciding you're going to embrace a guy that knocked over a convenience store and then according to grand jury testimony acted in ways that would get my children
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shot on staten island or in queens or in brooklyn, that's your hero? that's the reason you want to burn down black businesses that small business owners in ferguson have worked their entire lives for? that's why you want to block african-american commuters with five children going to work in the bay area and get them fired? really? this is your mission in life? donnie, i'm sorry. this was the final straw for me. i have sat here quietly and listened to bs being spewed all over this network and all over other networks. i can't take it anymore. i will say what i said last
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week. and i say this not to black children across america. i have said repeatedly on this show time and time again to people like gene robinson, there are two justice systems in america. a young black man is treated much worse than a young white man on the street, in the courtroom, in jail. there are two americas when it comes to criminal justice. i have said that repeatedly. but, donnie, in this case, if my child or your child knocked over a convenience store and then went down the middle of the street shouting profanities at a police officer, let's just say in queens and then went into the car and started punching the
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police officer and grabbing for his gun, he would probably be shot in the car. >> yeah, joe. i saw you this morning downstairs. i said am i missing something here? i kind of got you going. look, i am left of center. you're right of center. i could not agree with every word you said more passionately. it's not a black/white situation. it's a thug/police officer situation. i sit here and i'm going to sound like a grumpy old white guy, but am i missing something here? am i absolutely missing something here? a criminal who goes into a cop car and goes after a cop and somehow his hands were up. this is not doing the black community any favors. >> you know what makes me angry, i have people around this set
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all the time let me say what i say on set and sit and stare at me. they are afraid to say anything on the air. even though they know it's bs. you're the first to actually say what everybody says off set. i said last week, i said this last week, this would happen to a white guy. i had two white guys on set say to me i remember the time i was blank. i just got out of the car and the police officer pointed and screamed get the blank back in the car. and one of them said he didn't. get in the car or i'll shoot you. that happens all the time. cops are tough all the time. are there more blacks that get shot than whites? yes. i'm sure there are. i'm sure we've got all statistics and we can find statistics. in this event there's a separation, wes moore. there's a separation between how i felt with trayvon martin, who
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was basically chased through a neighborhood and shot because he was a black young man by a punk that didn't want black guys in his neighborhood, and this case with trayvon and perhaps i'm totally wrong. wes, i don't want to discuss the criminal justice system. i don't -- i agree. it's uneven. it's unfair. just in this case, you heard what donnie and i have said. tell us where we're wrong and how we have it wrong. >> there's definitely a difference between the case of trayvon martin and michael brown. it's not the michael brown has taken on the face of black oppression. it is about -- the facts of the case are the facts of the case. there's a couple challenges. by not even going to trial that people, there's speculation about what the facts of the case are. that's one thing people are still very concerned about. the second thing that people are very concerned about is this
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idea of rules of engagement. you're right. if everything lays out that michael brown was doing what he did prior to being shot to death, then that's inexcusable. at the same time, people also have to understand that michael brown was still an unarmed teen. and any time you have a situation like that, there are certain rules of engagement that have to be applied and have to be followed. so this dynamic of police department training and police department execution of that training is something that comes into this equation as much as a black/white equation. >> wes, let's start training from now. what would training be? white or black kid reaching into a car, punching a police officer, going for his gun. let's start blank piece of paper. we'll train every police officer in the country differently now. what would play out differently? >> if we look at the facts that we know it initially, michael brown was actually shot during
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the initial altercation of what happened. then as he proceeded to flee -- i have spoken with law enforcement about it. as michael brown continued to flee, that's where a lot of speculation and training then comes in about was there actually a shot to the back while michael brown was running away, was he shot to the front, what was the distance? >> that's another lie put out there that he was shot in the back. there was no forensic evidence that he was shot in the back. that was yet another lie that was propagated by his accomplice in the robbery who also claimed that he held his hands up and said don't shoot. that's the second lie. >> right. but again as i was saying, what is the distance between the second shot and fatal shot. as i said on the show, i think there actually is room for not just common understanding in all this because truthfully the job of law enforcement is
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extraordinarily difficult. i think for the reason that we have the rules of engagement that we have and reason we have to work on a better sense of trust in the community is in my opinion as much to protect and support the law enforcement as it is the individual community that they are then required to serve. i think that simply saying that looking at the protests and hands up, don't shoot, is all about a full throated protection and compliance of michael brown or his actions before and after him being fatally shot is not the full story. >> mika, what do you think about the rams? what do you think about everything you heard on the set. people saying one thing when camera is on and something different when camera is out because they're afraid they'll be called racist if they tell the truth. >> when you talk about hero, i completely understand what you're saying there. i think a lot of people see the situation as a symbol of the problems between the police and the community that are glaring,
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and i think they're important and that's the shooting of michael brown is a touchstone to open the world's eyes to the deep rifts there are across the country between the police and the community and the inbalance. i think there's a lot of value in the frustration over the situation, and not everybody is looking at it in the extreme way that you described and i think we do need to take it seriously. >> what do you mean not everyone is looking at it in the extreme way? >> not everyone looks at him as a hero. i think a lot of people would have liked to have seen an indictment so they could really see all of the facts played out. >> giuliani, who i agree with on nothing, said as a former u.s. prosecutor, it never would have gone to the grand jury based on the evidence. they bent over backwards by even going to a grand jury. >> find a jurisdiction in america where a guy knocks over -- let's say a white guy
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knocks over a convenience store. then he goes out and then he rushes in and he starts punching a cop. he runs away. he comes charging back. find a grand jury in america that would convict that cop, a black cop of shooting a white dude. you won't find it in america. check the laws. check the statutes. it would not happen anywhere in the whitest suburb in america. that black cop that shoots a white guy for doing the identical thing would not be indicted. >> i don't disagree with your main point. let's remember facts after the incident. the body laid in the street for hours. the racial disparity between the community. all of that. >> we've brought that up. that's despicable. i agree with all of this. >> what i'm saying is you're saying that the police officer and the young man who died, that that's the whole story about why people are making a big deal about the case.
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it's not. the death is the thing that set this in motion. the way it was handled puts in sharp relief a lot of problems and not just in that community but around the country and that's what caused a lot of the emotion. had the body not laid in the street. had they handled it better, this wouldn't be. >> if the police officer wforce african-american? >> it's disgusting that there's a terrible racial inequity not only in the criminal justice system but in ferguson specifically. also in ferguson specifically. it's absolutely terrible that that black man lay in the street for 4 1/2 hours. that's one area where you can say no white man would lay in the street for 4 1/2 hours. there are places where there are great inequities.
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that said, at least get your signs right. if this movement is important enough to you, don't base your movement on a lie. and i expect the commissioner of the national football league to suggest to the st. louis rams, their ownership, their coaches, their general manager, and their players that having players before the start of a national football league game make a gesture that suggests that st. louis police officers gunned down young black men who have arms in their air saying hands up don't shoot, i suggest you have some work to do. you have some work to do. not just on ray rice. you have some work to do to talk to those players. the cops have every reason to be pissed off this morning. every reason in the world. if i offended anybody by saying what i've said, trust me.
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95% of america think just like me. just because there are cowards that won't say that on tv, that's your problem. it's not mine. >> wes, i want to ask you a question. as an african-american man, as a war hero, as a journalist, as you're watching african-americans loot the stores as a result of this and the macro issues we agree on disparities, do you as a black guy say this pisses me off. do you react the way a white guy reacts? you loot stores owned by local african-american businessmen. we look like idiots. what goes through your mind? i know what goes through my mind. >> the thing that goes through my mind is, first, the truth is you're right. going through and looting and burning particularly communities that you live in and stores that
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you rely on, you know, you do always sit there and say how is this helping? how is this going to help your situation? at the same time it helps you to understand the level of rage that people feel. and truthfully when we see hands up, don't shoot, that's not just about michael brown. when we hear people screaming i can't breathe, that's not just about eric gardner. it's about people want to feel -- this actually goes back to this whole case. in some ways people say if there's no indictment, there's going to be looting and rioting. in some cases, the opposite then becomes even if there was an indictment, does that now mean that everything is okay? there are fundamental challenges that have existed for years and some of it justified with the rift between law enforcement and the community they're supposed to serve. law enforcement -- let's be honest. there are many departments that have done completely admirable jobs in terms of helping to pull
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together that rift that have leadership that truly understand what's going on and are trying to address it. when you look at a situation like ferguson and you look at the voting patterns in the last election where 6% of the people came out and voted. we understand there are long-term risks that exist between general disillusionment and the communities they're part of that have everything to do with what happened with that community on that specific day. >> really fascinating, brave and dicey conversation. much more ahead. a lot of news to cover. still ahead on "morning joe," social media as a crime scene. a look at the case before the supreme court today that pits free speech against digital threats. plus, netflix's new series may be the company's biggest risk to date. that story is ahead and ghost soldiers in iraq. they're not supernatural. >> this is not good. >> they may be just as scary for
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the u.s. interest in that country. >> we fight in iraq for eight years and 50,000 of their soldiers don't even show up to fight isis. they just disappear. >> that story coming up. ♪ (holiday music is playing) hey! i guess we're going to need a new santa ♪(the music builds to a climax.) more people are coming to audi than ever before. see why now is the best time. audi will cover your first month's payment on select models at the season of audi sales event. visit audioffers.com today. lactaid® is 100% real milk? right. real milk. but it won't cause me discomfort. exactly, because it's milk without the lactose. and it tastes? it's real milk! come on, would i lie about this?
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time to look at the morning papers. "the washington post," the iraqi military is doling out salaries to at least 50,000 soldiers who don't even exist. false names are rampant on payrolls providing the latest evidence of widespread corruption affecting baghdad's government. the ghost soldiers are tapping the military of nearly $500 million a year. it's likely only a fraction of the actual cost. >> so "usa today" clashes erupted between protesters and police offer the streets of hong kong. riot police had to use pepper spray and water hoses to push back the activists from storming
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government buildings. at least 40 demonstrators were arrested. the activists are calling for free elections in one of the fiercest challenges to beijing since the 1989 uprising. nbc news now, police in afghanistan say they shot and killed a bird may have been conducting a surveillance mission for the taliban. the officers say they killed the animal after noticing it was strapped with an atntenna and what looked like a gps. >> you have your drones. we have ours. >> the bird, which wasn't native to the area, was spotted walking along a highway in a region marked by violence. >> we get this from "new york post." crew members on a us airways flight kicked off a passenger because the pet pig was smelling up the cabin. this pig was initially allowed onboard because it was considered an emotional support pig. >> i have one of those. i need one. they're very loving.
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you hug them in bed. they don't talk back. >> a future that could smell like bacon. under federal rules monkeys and cats also qualify as this comfort animal but in this case, passengers complained and the 70-pound potbelly pig was booted off the plane. it was incontinent. it had issues. >> the biggest animated film of all time is getting a sequel as deadline reports "frozen" is set for a follow-up according to idina menzel who provided the voice of elsa. it won an oscar for "let it go." >> i know your children are older. have they seen it yet?
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>> one of them has. >> i've seen it a thousand times. >> it's good. it's on demand. people can rent it. it's really popular for the kids and christmastime. elsa gear everywhere. >> it's very good. it's not "lion king" which i saw 47 times. >> i've never seen it. >> you haven't seen "lion king." >> you have heard of democrats. welcome to the era of obama republicans. the political playbook explains the term ahead. plus a look at today's must read opinion pages. >> we haven't talked about the new "star wars 7" trailer. already 40 million hits on youtube. >> it's a year away. >> i can't wait.
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time for must read opinion pages. we'll start with "the new york times." ray rice ruling highlights roger goodell's missteps. she says in part this. had goodell and the league
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acknowledged last summer that players involved in domestic violence deserved more than a tiny two-game suspension, the nfl wouldn't be facing the giant public relations problem it's looking at right now. goodell has made so many mistakes in the case that it's hard to keep track of them. he's been breaking the rules that he's been making up as he goes along. the owners either see that and don't care because goodell has made them so much money or they continue to wear blinders and of course ray rice reinstated and a couple teams are looking at him. the conclusion is -- there's a point to this -- you can't be punished twice. that's what happened. they didn't do it right the first time. >> i'm sure that roger got that advice from the nfl at the time. we've already given him a suspension. you can't suspend him again. lawyers would say you can't do this. if i am a pr person, i say do it. go ahead and suspend him. let him overturn it later on.
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you have got to show that a new era has started in the nfl and this is unacceptable. so even if the legal niceties aren't lined up, i think roger goodell did the right thing. he sent a strong message. and now rice comes back and plays. goodell says i've done all i can do and i put everybody else in the league on notice that if it happens to them in the future, i'm going to pound them. >> that's great and good for goodell. the facts remain according to rice's wife speaking to matt lauer today, he told goodell what happened and that he punched her. they need to shine a light on the commissioner and find out what's what there. >> just because he can come back doesn't mean teams should hire him back. >> any team will have a pr disasters if they do it. i don't think a man's livelihood should be taken away forever. if i'm owning the team, i just
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don't want him. >> do you want the ravens to take him back? >> ravens left the door open. they sent those text messages back and forth. they were sorry to see him go and they wanted to leave on good terms. >> as a fan, would you want him playing again? >> you know, if his wife can forgive him, and if he can try to lead by example, if they can lead by example as a couple and do things. i know they haven't wanted to be role models. if they can lead by example, then maybe they can help a lot of other people. i think right now the light that rice is shining is on goodell. it's a cya move. it's a pr nightmare. he'll have to take care of this legally. i think for roger goodell to come out of this with janay rice sitting down and exposing ray told the whole truth, it will be bad for him.
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>> it's compelling. if his wife can forgive him, everybody else should too. >> i think not everybody who has a situation like the one they have is a complete all out criminal. i think it's a sign they need a lot of help and counseling. at this point since they are such public figures they ought to do all of that in the open if they want to come close to putting it behind them and also heal. they can't have it both ways unfortunately. so i think they have tried to have that. >> i'll tell you one pr thing they can do, if i was giving ray rice advice, look, come back for a year. your entire salary is donated to domestic violence issues so you bring more attention to it. michael vick came back -- he served 2 1/2 years jail time. i'm not saying he goes to jail for this. there was a punishment that he served his time so to speak. how do we get it to the point that ray rice has served his
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time. >> takes more personal responsibility than they do in this interview with matt. they have to take a lot more responsibility than they do in the interview with matt. they blame the commissioner and the commissioner deserves some blame. >> the commissioner didn't knock a woman out in an elevator in a casino. >> correct. >> here's what ann writes in "the washington post." another reason to avoid reading comments. i can't read the comments. they're so mean. >> i never have. i've stopped reading mail. once upon it time it seemed as if the internet would be a place of civilized and open debate and now unedited forums are insult exchanges. like it or not this matters. the perceptions of an article, it's writer and subject can be shaped by unanimous online commentary especially if it's harsh. sooner or later we may be forced to end internet anonymity. know there are arguments in
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favor of anonymity but too many people abuse the privilege. human rights including the right of freedom of expression should belong to real human beings and not unanimous trolls. >> fantasy land. >> i think every news organization needs to attach -- you need to be able to see where the person is from and take it back and the supreme court, we'll be talking about this with pete williams, is actually looking at how threats are handled on the internet. i'm telling you, this is a matter of national interest because the best and the brightest in this generation and the next will not run for public office. will not seek the positions that we need run by competent smart men and women if the internet is not cleaned up. it needs to be cleaned up. there is no violation of a first
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amendment right by stripping away the anonymity that allows people to spew hatred and threats against others. >> i know you know firsthand -- >> can you go on tv and make comments with your face blacked out with no maim on it? >> it happens on "what's my line." >> mike allen here with the morning playbook. mike, what you got going today? >> good morning, mika. first things first. for joe roll tide, number one in ap seventh year in a row. >> thank you for the updates. mike gives me great e-mail updates through the weekend. i greatly appreciate it. what a game. >> politico has a piece up entitled the obama republicans. who are they. what are they? >> so, mika, this is the first time i have had something hopeful to tell you from washington in i don't know how long. one of the big problems with getting anything done on capitol hill is that there's no swing
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republicans. they are all from deep red districts and current congress there's only 17 house republicans who are from a district that president obama won. that means there's 217 who are from pure red districts. in the new congress coming in january, there's nine more. 26 republicans come from districts that president obama won. this means that they are going to need to distinguish themselves from the conservative republican majority. it will give speaker boehner a little more leverage with his hardest right to say, hey, i need to protect these men and women. i need to make some deals. i need to have a different face for this conference. already these are the districts that democrats have targeted. there's a great scene in this politico story where a week after election day they had these winners at the capitol
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hill club and there were 20 of them. surprise guys. you are the top democratic targets you already need to be running again. >> can you ask mike, is that the good morning sacramento set? where is that? >> it's pretty. >> nebraska avenue. world headquarters of the nbc washington bureau. >> fantastic. >> michael allen, thank you. it's beautiful. >> have a great december. >> as oil prices dropped to their lowest level in years, how is that impacting the industry here in the states? we'll go live to the oil shales in north dakota for a report on that. plus, from our sports leagues to private colleges to the federal government, it seems big institutions are failing people now more than ever. how can the trust return. we'll explore that ahead. she inspires you.
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how was your thanksgiving? >> it was good. my parents came. the miracle of thanksgiving for us was that my two daughters got along. >> they were nice to each other? >> carlie is perfect. >> she's very creative. >> she's an artist. do you think van goh sat in his baby chair. >> they miss each other now. >> they dumped me and went out for coffee together and did stuff together. it was nice. >> adorable. >> coffee and cigarettes. >> how about you? >> my kids were fine.
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i had a thousand people at my house. 21 people for thanksgiving dinner. >> that was a bunch. >> we have talked about this. >> it looked like the welding wall. what are you talking about? i didn't say that about my town. it's only aimed at you. we just don't like you. go. go. >> i'm coming friday night by the way. >> that was last friday night. >> it was this past friday? >> every friday. >> i'll be there this friday. >> cops aren't going to let you off the exit. >> can we talk about trust in government, please? >> yes. go ahead. >> if it has big in front of it, it seems that people don't trust it. from big business to big banks
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to big government. trust in institutions is at an all-time low. here with us now from washington, staff correspondent for "the national journal." sophie and her colleague co-wrote an article that could have well been written this morning. how americans lost trust in our greatest institutions. two years later a recent gallup survey shows that disillusionment exists with less than 30% of americans holding high confidence in institutions like the presidency, public schools and banks. >> what is driving this? >> that's a great question, joe. first of all, hi, everyone. it's great to be here today. i think the question of what's driving this decline in trust is an interesting one and it's not quite clear what the answer is. there's definitely a sense that trust has gone down since the late '70s. that's been played out in annual gallup surveys. i think that you can make the
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argument that scandals have been to blame for this. it's very hard to rebuild trust after a scandal. i also think the fact that the media is bringing more scandals to light might have a role to play in this as well. >> let me ask you this question. how do you if you are running a government, you've got an irs scandal. you've got a va scandal. you've got an nsa scandal. it's just over -- not like watergate size. it's almost like death by a thousand cuts. that's a real problem. not only for democrats but for anybody that wants to run for government. >> it's the reason everyone has to run as an outsider even if you're an insider. the pillars we talked a lot on this show have cracks in them. it's very hard to run as a life-long politician when basically every political institution is flooded at this point. as we all know, an outsider never works in washington. there's a little bit of a conundrum there.
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>> sophie, i wonder, is it just scandal in the media or is it actuality? >> yeah, i mean i think there are good reasons out there to distrust certain institutions shall we say. i also want to bring up another point which is particularly when it comes to government, trust can be a partisan issue. if you look at trust in the executive branch right now, i think the most recent numbers from gallup show that about 43% of americans have some or a lot of confidence in the executive branch. when you break that out, democrats, about 80% of democrats are expressing confidence because there's a democrat in the white house and about 30% of republicans are not. when you look back to this point in president bush's tenure, those numbers were flipped with 80% of republicans expressing confidence and about 20% of
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democrats expressing no confidence. >> all right. >> sophie quinton, thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> greatly appreciate it. sorry you have to work with ron. you'll get past it. >> ron is great. >> do we have wes here still? >> yes. >> okay. i had three people talk at the same time. they all sort of -- you know, you look at these numbers, wes, they're discouraging. you look at the fact that the united states military spit upon in the late '60s and early '70s coming back from vietnam has now managed to become the one public institution that americans still trust, respect, love. it's pretty remarkable and encouraging. why do you think that is? >> i put it to two different reasons. >> 74% of americans have high confidence in the military. 7% in congress. go ahead. >> one, actually, i give a lot of credit to vets of wars past.
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i always say i think part of the reason that iraq and afghanistan vets in particular have received the support from our country that we received have been because of the vietnam era vets and because of the korean war and world war ii vets who have made it. they have been diligent to make sure that iraq and afghanistan vets do not receive that same treatment. a lot of that credit goes back to older vets. the other thing is that when you think about veterans and when you think about the role that veterans have overseas and leaving their families and going overseas and fighting wars, you know, people look at it and say these are things that we necessarily would not do. these are things that are challenging and they're hard. we have a great deal of respect for those who put themselves in harm's way on our behalf. police, firefighters, the military, et cetera. i think you bring up a very good point, joe, earlier in the fact that there are a lot of people
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looking at elected office and part of the frustration and part of what we need to be concerned about long-term is people look at and say i wouldn't do that not because it's hard and because it's something challenging but because i just don't want to do it. i don't want to put my family through it. that becomes something we really have to wrestle with for a long-term basis in this country. >> coming up, johnny football era is under way in cleveland. we'll bring you those highlights and best moments from week 13 of the nfl season next on "morning joe." ♪
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ your recap everything sports. we begin with broncos and chiefs on sunday night football. peyton manning tossed a pair of touchdowns including a 15-yard score to anderson who also rushed for 168 yards. the kicker matched a franchise record five field goals and broncos beat the chiefs 29-16. take you to green bay and potential super bowl matchup between the packers and the patriots. we go to end of the second quarter. aaron rodgers connects on a big play with jordy nelson. the 45-yard touchdown pass is
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rodgers second of the night helping green bay to a lead at the half. patriots making a comeback down five points on a big third down play at the end of the fourth. green bay defense gets to tom brady for the sack. packers hold off new england for the 26-21 win. we go to atlanta. down south for another battle between first place teams as the falcons host the cardinals. big game for atlanta receiver julio jones who caught ten passes for 189 yards and a touchdown. >> first place team. 4-7. >> falcons remain atop the afc south. >> drew brees edge the steelers 35-32. and to buffalo. here we go. johnny manziel in for brian hoyer early in the fourth after browns go down 20-3 in the
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bills. manziel rushes for his first nfl touchdown. buffalo remains in the playoff picture after a win over cleveland. >> why was manziel in? >> i don't know. maybe they needed someone to flip the bird to players. >> do we not have any alabama highlights? what's going on? >> what happened this weekend. >> ancient history. >> we replayed the field goal being returned in the iron bowl enough. >> that's not highlights of us beating auburn 55-44. >> what's the name of that game? >> it's iron bowl, baby. alabama number one. number two, fsu. squeaked by again. >> did you see that calm alabama fan eating doritos. it was very funny. >> the crimson tide looks amazing. congratulations to ole miss. >> big game. >> we go from highlights on the field to headlines off the
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field. will the team pick up ray rice now that he's been reinstated to the league? >> i think they will. what do you think? >> i do too. and former governor turned sports writer ed rendell joins us and the first daughters insulted on facebook. now the heat is intensifying on the gop aide who posted the disparaging remarks. stay with us.
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welcome back to "morning joe." joining the conversation, former chairman of the democratic national committee and former governor of pennsylvania and nbc news political analyst, ed rendell. good to have you onboard, ed. >> good morning, mika. >> ed, i want to ask you at the top of the show, we'll get to ray rice in a second. you've been an executive for a long time. let me ask you a lot of people second-guessing nixon in missouri. we've been seeing riots in the streets. we've been seeing protests. we've been seeing liquor stores looted according to "the washington post." we've been seeing small businesses looted. we've been seeing the destruction of small businesses with people that have been struggling their entire life to open up small businesses.
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what would have you done going back to august to protect black business owners that have seen their life savings go up in smoke because the government did not have what it took to protect their stores from being looted and destroyed. >> i think jay nixon has been a good governor. the mistake was made by not having a significant guard presence. back in august, as the grand jury announcement was made, the tragedy here is that rioters are punishing people who are totally innocent who probably agree with them on the eventual decision. you have one thing as governor
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that you possess to call out the guard in as great numbers as is necessary and the guard should have been over it in a much better physical presence and capacity than i think was the case. >> let me play devil's advocate. you have the guard out. now we have images of guardsman with clubs hitting young black men on the head. aren't you in a lose-lose situation? >> you deploy the guard in a way as backup to the local police and the state police and you give the guard specific responsibilities to protect property. that's their specific responsibility. you leave to local police and state police the function you are talking about. the guard gets called in. if local police and state police get overrun. the guard's main thrust would have been to protect property.
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>> ed, we have been talking a good bit about the protest and everything else. do you have any sympathy for the protesters that are going out and setting things on fire and flipping cop cars and busting windows open. do you see anyway that justice is served by that or the cause of michael brown or the cause of a fair criminal justice system is furthered by images like this? >> no. in fact, as president obama said, i thought he said something very good upon hearing of the decision. the browns themselves had said, look, don't in our name or in our son's name destroy property or commit crimes. that's not honoring our son. we honor our son by trying to make systemic changes. >> i saw something out of san
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diego, maybe los angeles, where you had protesters blocking an on ramp that stopped commuters from getting to work, nurses, doctors, sanitation workers from getting to work. what would you do if you were faced with that situation? you had protesters lining the streets during rush hour commute in the name of justice but at the end of the day getting people fired from their jobs. >> the first thing you do in philadelphia we have what's called a civil affairs unit. they are specifically trained police to do things about crowd control. i would have sent the head of civil affairs unit out to talk to protesters to say you can't stay here. you made your point. we'll let you demonstrate on the side of the road, et cetera, but you have to go. you can't block traffic. if you continue to do it, we'll have to physically remove you. >> we'll move onto other news now.
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former baltimore ravens running back ray rice is free to play football again. on friday rice won his appeal of an indefinite suspension and was reinstated by the nfl. he's now eligible to sign with any team in the league. in july, commissioner roger goodell suspended rice for two games for a domestic violence incident. then in september, rice was suspended indefinitely after a graphic video surfaced showing the extent of the assault. during arbitration, the nfl argued that goodell was misled saying he didn't have all of the information when he first learned of the incident but former district judge barbara jones serving as the arbitrator wrote in her decision "i'm not persuaded that rice lied to or misled the nfl at his june interview. i find that the indefinite suspension was abuse of d discretion and must be vacated." and adding "did goodell know details of the case when he gave
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rice the two g-day suspension after meeting with him june 16th? did rice mislead him by downplaying the elevator encounter. jones suggests so." in a wide ranging "today" show interview, mat lauer spoke to janay rice about her emotions in the direct aftermath of the incident. >> i was furious. we came home and we didn't talk the entire ride. i didn't speak to him the entire ride home. he tried to talk to me. i didn't want to hear anything. i just knew he hit me and i was completely over it. i was done. didn't want to hear anything.
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i just didn't even want to entertain it. entertain him or anything he had to say any explanation. of course in the back of my mind and in my heart i knew that our relationship wouldn't be over because i know that this isn't us and it's not him. >> espn is now reporting that at least four teams have expressed interest in rice including the indianapolis colts and the new orleans saints. though neither are necessarily expected to pursue him. here with us now from washington, sports editor for "the nation" magazine, dave, good to have you. >> does ray rice get picked up by one of those four teams? >> i think it's highly probable that ray rice does get picked up. maybe not by the end of this season. that's something the item would have to weather the storm to do. the team most likely to look at ray rice would be the indianapolis colts. their coach used to coach rice in baltimore and yet owner of the colts has had his own run-ins with the law this year
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and one wonders if they would weather the public relations storm. i have to say that we have to give a lot of credit to the national football league. this is the last time i will ever give credit to the national football league in this interview. what a friday news dump this was. i mean, my god. the day after the famies sittin around the tv, the heartwarming stories of nfl players and thanksgiving and then it's friday and everybody is in a turkey coma and then it's oh, boy the way, the commissioner may have lied under oath to a federal judge and ruled that ray rice has more credibility than he does and have a nice weekend. >> ed, sounds like pretty good timing. we'll have to remember that in the future if you ever want to dump something on a friday. >> it's an old politician's trick. >> it is. what do you make of this? i said earlier that goodell probably knew the suspension wouldn't stand up because he already suspended him once. for pr purposes, he had to do
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something and maybe this is what he had to do. >> well, it goes to the core of the problem here, joe. the core of the problem is you can't have one person being the prosecutor and the judge or the jury as the case may be. if roger goodell is going to hand out discipline, then there's got to be an appeal process within the frame work of the nfl and not by going to court where someone can appeal. roger goodell was all over the lot. the two-game suspension. roger goodell whether ray rice told him or didn't tell him, he's not a dumb man. she didn't get knocked unconscious by an accidental hit. everyone knew what happened. the video made it crystal clear. that's number one. number two, they put in this six-game policy. if it's a six-game policy, give ray rice six games when you readjusted the sentence. so hopefully the thing that comes out of this is that the
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commissioner can hand out initial discipline but there's an independent person who hears the appeal not in court but in the nfl. also, in these meetings with players on things this important, how can they not be transcribed. it's stunning to me the meetings weren't transcribed. >> you were saying before the rices needed to be more straightforward than they were in the interview with matt lauer. what did you mean by that? >> take more personal responsibility and not throw it all on the commissioner. they need to become spokespeople and role models. he'll earn back the ability to be a public figure and they both need to take more responsibility about what happened and to help be leaders to try to help eradicate it not just in nfl but wider society. dave how is a sophisticated "morning joe" viewer supposed to square with the commissioner not being truthful with the nfl
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statement saying nothing in this report that commissioner wasn't truthful? >> i'm glad you mentioned that. when i read that memo i could not believe the gap between what the nfl was telling their teams and the actuality of judge jones' ruling. what judge jones said was basically roger goodell under oath doubled down on the story he's been telling for the last three months that he did not see the video and that the nfl security, which by the way is populated by former members of the fbi and the secret service, somehow did not have the investigative capabilities of tmz and yet despite that, he was not able to get the video and see it. he doubled down on that story. he also doubled down on what the rices said when they were sitting with him. the meeting was not transcribed but five witnesses in there said rices were truthful with goodell. goodell said he left that meeting believing that "both were at fault" in whatever took place in that elevator.
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he doubled down on that. if there is a particularly aggressive state's attorney out there who wants to do so, it's not beyond the boundary of scope to put the phrase roger goodell and perjury in the same sentence. >> the ohio state university community is grieving this morning after the body of a missing football player was found on sunday night. police say kosta karageorge died of an self-inflicted gunshot wound. his body was discovered in a dumpster not far from his apartment. family members reported him missing on wednesday. his mother says her son texted her that morning to apologize for embarrassing her blaming concussions he had suffered. fellow osu students held a vigil on sunday night. the athletics department was shocked and saddened to hear of his death. he was 22 years old.
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thomas? >> this is a terrible tragedy for the osu community obviously. 22 years old. they went into a panic when this young man disappeared. they didn't know what had happened. we have that ominous text message that went to the young man's mom. what does this say on a larger scale about concussions within football and here on the college level and how seriously we should be discussing that and what it can do to a young person? >> i mean, of course, i don't think we know the specifics of this young man and whatever he was fighting inside his own mind and what have you. this is going to be a sports story for the next generation. it's going to be whether or not we have full scale and full contact tackle football in this country for people under the age of 14. the former chief neurologist of the national football league believes there should be no tackle football for kids under the age of 12 and that there is evidence of brain injury for kids as young as 6, 7, 8 years
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old. if that happens as kids are developing, that could affect their ability to frankly just grow as teenagers and develop so we are going to see -- all of these cases, whether accurately or not, will be used as sign posts in stories going forward as to how much a role football has in youth sports in this country. >> i started playing football at 8. i'm evidence of that. >> i can't see as a dad letting my kid play tackle football. >> not right now. >> dave, thank you very much. a couple other news stories to get to. a new investigation shows the iraqi military is doling out salaries to at least 50,000 soldiers who do not exist. false names are rampant on defense ministries payroll providing evidence of the widespread corruption infecting baghdad's central government. the so-called ghost soldiers are tapping the military of nearly $400 million a year although
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it's likely only a fraction of the actual cost. also, a republican aide on capitol hill is apologizing for controversial statements about the obama daughters. following the ceremonial pardoning of a turkey, an annual white house tradition, it's a nice, fun, casual relaxed tradition, elizabeth took to facebook to pest her opinion of sasha and malia's appearance during the event. they look adorable first of all. they serves as communications director for u.s. congressman and she wrote, i get you're both in those -- i'm reading this. it's awful. the bottom line with this story is that democrats and republicans over the years, don't go after the kids. leave them alone. they look adorable. >> after many hours of rereading words online, i can see how hurtful my words were and i
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pledge to learn and grow and assure you this from experience. >> last three presidents, clinton, bush, obama, all put kids off limits. the press followed. this woman made a huge mistake. she apologized for it. really bad judgment. >> they have done a great job. you go back in time, jimmy carter's daughter the press felt was free game, the press has stayed away from the kids. >> the press stepped up to the plate and really with few exceptions has stayed away from the kids. and for this woman to do it in this case where they were just standing there engaged in this great tradition, horrible judgment. >> ed rendell, who will win the national championship in college football? >> oregon. >> you're killing me, man. >> ed rendell, thank you.
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>> it's horrible. how can you do that to me? still ahead on "morning joe," a 13-year-old boy missing for four years is reunited with his mother. nbc's kerry sanders live with us for t with the latest details and broadcast tv will not exist as we know it by 2030. what's next for the company as it prepares a global expansion. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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a look at the morning papers. "the new york times" has a new measure to growing strength of digital media companies. vox secured a new round of financing from a new york investment firm. it's one of several platforms merging together to target younger users with content ranging from sports to real
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estate. it's valued at 850 million. compare that to "the washington post" purchased last year for 250 million. >> that's huge. is vox a year old? big numbers. there may be fewer people heading to the theaters now that hackers have stolen five new movies from sony studios and leaked them onto the internet. these films include brad pitt's "fury" illegally downloaded. nearly 900,000 times as of yesterday. the new "annie" nearly a quarter million illegal downloads and cybercriminals that attacked sony computers are threatening to leak company secrets as well. >> wow. "usa today" local reports from chicago say travelers at midway airport formed a line more than a mile long early on sunday. flyers waiting to pass through security checkpoints spilled through the airport and all of the way out to the nearby train
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station. >> what do you like to say for traveling? >> make your patience. that's not -- i could not do that. a seattle area reporter says she mapped the long lines after checking in. a spokesperson for the airport says the backup wasn't a surprise and noted relatively few passengers missed their flights actually. what a nightmare. >> i wouldn't like that. >> from the atlanta journal constitution, the 13-year-old boy who disappeared almost four years ago was found alive in georgia. he was reunited with his mother 24 hours later. police say the boy was found behind a fake wall during a second visit to a home in georgia. joining us now from georgia, kerry sanders with more from this story. kerry, anybody from the family talking at all about this? >> reporter: no, they're not. what we do know is that that 13-year-old boy is now safely back with his mother. yes, he was hidden behind a wall
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according to police in this house over my shoulder and details of how he was discovered sound like something from a tv thriller. safely back in his mother's arms, investigators this morning are trying to piece together the story of what happened to this 13-year-old boy who had been missing for four years. >> all rise. >> reporter: in court on sunday, the boy's father and stepmother sat in shackles charged with false imprisonment and child cruelty after police found the boy in their house in a hidden room behind a fake wall camouflaged with towels. according to authorities, the rescue started when the boy somehow contacted his sister using a cell phone. she relayed the message to their mother who tipped off authorities where the boy was being held. but when police went to the house, their search came up empty.
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>> officers went and made contact with individuals in the home who did not have any knowledge of who the child was. >> reporter: it was only after a second call from the mother with more details that police went back to the house and this time they found him. >> it was a shock to all of us. >> reporter: neighbors say from the outside there was nothing apparently wrong. they would see the boy doing yard work or playing with other children and they described the parents as really nice people. >> hey, come over any time you want. hang out if you want to borrow sugar, whatever. >> reporter: neither the mother nor the boy spoke with reporters. they didn't need to. samantha davis, the stepmother here, is on probation on a separate case for child cruelty. both she and the boy's father remain in jail this morning. they were denied bond. >> an incredible story. kerry sanders, thank you very much. coming up, big oil means big money but what happens when oil prices drop? we'll take a look at how
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american oil community is reacting to those lower prices. brian sullivan has the report live from north dakota next on "morning joe." how could switchgrass in argentina, change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the aerospace industry in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. listen to this sweet symphony of flavor. beautiful! gorgeous! here comes the fruitful crescendo! incredible.
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50. after weeks of oil prices going lower, how is the market reacting? brian sullivan has more. an extraordinary operation there in north dakota. is there a threat right now with these low oil prices in one of the largest economic booms in america? >> reporter: good morning, guys. it's negative 15 degrees right now. it's cold. good morning. you can't even see me. if oil prices stay here for a long time, the answer is no. some are producing below the cost of lower oil. if oil prices stay at this level for a long period of time, yes. people we talked to over the
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weekend said the current rigs, they are probably going to be okay. it's the new rigs. it's the growth that's at risk. lowest unemployment rate in america. truck drivers making $150,000 a year. starting workers at mcdonald's here 20 bucks an hour with benefits. all of that will slow down if the new rigs slow down. so that's the opec story right now is that is opec trying to come after the u.s. oil boom? some people suggest they are. the realities of oil prices at this level, all of this is at risk and this is one of the -- whatever you think about environmental aspects, that's a different argument. this is one of the latest economic boom stories in recent american history. period. >> i asked a guy who is very high up on wall street who i knew on the oil sector, i asked him what opec was doing here and were they trying to hurt isis or
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trying to hurt russia or trying to hurt the iranians, and he said, well, yeah, but they are also trying to hurt america. they want to kill the energy revolution that's going on right now. so that's why oil prices are dropping. >> reporter: and people here know that. here's the interesting things about a town like williston. we'll have that 2:00 eastern today. people in different industries. they watch the price of oil. not every minute but they are all aware of it no matter what industry they're in and a lot of them suggested we're not saying opec is coming after us necessarily but they do believe that opec would like to see this slow down a bit. they're not nervous yet. we've been here before. we'll be fine. to live in this weather, you have to be tough. the people here are tough. i think if oil prices stay at this level, guys, it could be a little bit harder down the road certainly for the new growth. >> fascinating.
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fascinating that we're talking about -- >> reporter: i'm going back in. >> thank you so much, brian. we have been talking about energy revolution. it's already here. certainly north dakota, $20 an hour at mcdonalds. the economy is exploding there. >> there are jobs there. >> at the end of the day, if saudi arabia depresses or doesn't depress output and keeps oil prices low, the u.s. energy revolution is having an impact whether we take it out of the ground or not. >> up next -- >> it's good news for consumers. good news for americans. good news for our economy. >> jfk grew up reading stories about winston churchill but what happened when the two men met for the first time? >> jfk tried to pick up churchill's wife. >> and there are unanswered questions about what the future holds who ray rice. we'll break all that down. stay with us. ♪
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might not seem so big after all. ♪ we have an investigative reporter here with us. this is absolutely fascinating. these two families obviously such two huge forces in the 20th century you say destined to be intertwined. >> very much so. it's the story of two great nations together. when you have two figures like winston churchill and john f. kennedy, you talk about some of the great things about why we study history and why people get involved in government. >> you say that jfk grew up
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reading churchill's history books. >> he did. >> he loved the guy and yet when they came together for their meeting, it was very awkward. why? >> that's in 1958 on a boat with onassis who is flirting with jackie. first time that jackie meets onassis. the meeting with jfk and winston is old and it's a disappointment for jack. >> of course more on that later. let's go back to meetings with this interworking. obviously joe kennedy was on the exact opposite side of winston in 1940 going into the war, but they scratched each other's backs very well. >> that's the big find in my book. as you point out, most of history about the kennedys and
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churchills were written after world war ii so most people say they hated one another. of course they very much did disagree over the war. but prior to that, they were friendly. they were friendly with people like lord beaver brook and they had a number of different friends. the arc of the book is that they were friendly. >> they were also -- they took care of each other. inside deals. talk about it. >> in 1933, it's the almost the end of prohibition. kennedy wants to be the first one on selling liquor in america. he gets the british liquor deals and goes to london and meets with winston churchill and he brings the president's son, jimmy, and bottom line is joe gets the liquor deal. jimmy gets the insurance contract on back and forth and thing that i found -- >> what does churchill get? >> he gets stock in two
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companies associated with joe kennedy. >> my goodness. >> what you make of that by today's standards -- i think winston probably saw it as a friendly stock tip. gratui gratuity. it's actual, the stock sales are framed around the meeting. a little bit just before and a lot right after. >> how much money are we talking about? >> by today's standards we're talking about back and forth of about $900,000. >> was that one of the biggest gold mines he ever had? >> it was surprising to me. winston lost his shirt during the crash of '29. he was fearing he would have to close down. so bernard was his best friend in america. he was involved with this deal as well and i think it was something that had never been said before. >> wow.
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a quid pro quo going on there. >> a lot of churchill's wealth in one deal. >> it is. it's something that people had not looked at before. those records are now computerized. i was able to find that out relatively easy. >> you find this out. churchill kept pushing the united states to drop atomic bombs on russia soon after world war ii. >> i'm a document guy. one of the things you do is you look at somebody's fbi file and in there was a conversation that churchill had with a senator from new hampshire in 1947. winston had already talked about the iron curtain and had given a big speech in missouri about that. there in his fbi file was this document, which indicated that winston was saying that to stop the expansion of the soviet union, that we should consider, the united states should
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consider dropping the bomb on the kremlin. >> and then of course you had jfk and churchill actually come together both of them cold warriors at the end. >> as much as i talk about joe kennedy and his impact, a big part of the book is fathers and sons in the sense of greatness. winston was in many ways the intellectual godfather for jfk. a lot of speeches in the 1960 campaign had the phrases where he quoted winston quite a bit. and the whole view about containment and learning the lessons from england in the '30s were carried through by jfk as a cold warrior in the '60s. >> all right. >> "when lions roar." thank you so much thomas maier for being with us today. very good. still ahead -- i want that. i'm bringing that home. netflix quest for global domination begins with a new series about world traveler.
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will the gamble work? the pentagon at war with president obama? the new report that suggests the relationship between the white house and the pentagon may be even more strained than thought. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. everyone has questions about money. you know, i think about money kind of a lot. -money's freedom. -money's always on my mind. credit cards. -mortgage. -debt. it's complicated. it's not easy. i'm not a good budgeter. unfortunately, i'm a spender. i would love to learn more about finances. so there's questions about the world that all of us have, especially about money and finance. the goal of khan academy and better money habits and the partnership we're doing with bank of america is to give people the tools they need to empower themselves. [ inhales deeply ] [ sighs ] [ inhales ] [ male announcer ] at cvs health, we took a deep breath...
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secretary chuck hagel's departure from the defense department is the latest example of a strained relationship between the white house and the pentagon. the ap reports the president's desire to micromanage all aspects of its national security team has hurt its relationship with the pentagon. the ap says the obama administration is seen as overly suspicious of the military desire to use force. while the pentagon views the president as "cruel and detached" compared to president george w. bush. the report goes on to say the obama's administration reputation when it comes to these matters is impacting the white house's ability to find a replacement for hagel who gave his resignation as defense secretary last week and now to a behind the scenes look at netflix's upcoming original series "marco polo." we'll talk to emily steel about her new article entitled "how to
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build an empire the netflix way." here's a clip from the series. >> rolling. >> action. >> at the beginning of the story, he's 17 years old and his father was a great merchant so his dream is to become a great merchant as well. >> marco travels with his father on his next trip back to china. >> they get to there and when the negotiation goes wrong, the last ditch effort the father offers marco's service. >> we are all prisoners and privileged guests. one and the same. >> emily, this looks huge. >> it's epic. how much money have they spent. >> $90 million for ten episodes. >> who does that? >> netflix does.
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the only thing even comparable is "game of thrones" on hbo. >> these are movie studios. >> educate us. >> $90 million for a movie that no one thinks twice over. that's what they're trying to do. >> the company does a lot of oscar winning films and it was over these ten episodes they feel -- >> what's costing so much in salaries of the cast? >> they shot in malaysia and italy. there are more than 100 cast members. hundreds of extras. >> let's talk about netflix strategy. what's behind this? >> what's their goal? to rule the world? >> what's really fascinating is netflix in the u.s., growth has started to slow so they are trying to expand internationally
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so they see that as the next area they can grow. it's slowed because they now have 30 million u.s. subscribers and there's only so many people they think will too different f hbo. hbo looks for shows that have global reach. it's a very simple formula. we're going to five years from now -- correct me if i'm wrong. no distinction between what we saw in hbo, in a theater, netflix, amazon. >> does it all blur? >> it is all blurring. what's really fascinating is about a couple of months ago, netflix announced this new deal to crouching tiger hidden dragon. a partnership again with the weinstein company and imax theaters, which is really blurring. >> adam sandler's next film, you know where, amazon. >> it's netflix.
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>> the way hbo does, people say, i got to get netflix just because i want to see marco polo. >> all around the world is what they're hoping. >> i didn't recognize any of those actors. are there famous actors in this? >> no, there's not. very little known 24-year-old. an italian actor that they found just looking through audition tapes. >> "house of cards" has spacey and other known people, right? there's no one known in this. what do they think, is it the great storytelling? why do they think this will be must see tv? >> what the chief content officer at netflix told me he picked up the scripts and it's a beautiful story of an east meets west drama. there's lots of martial arts and
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a lot of drama there he thinks will capture the audiences. >> the answer is simply, ways driving is, okay, what is going to play in dubuque and vietnam and -- >> globally. which is what we think every morning when we're setting this show up. >> in four languages. >> yeah, but, you know, "band of brothers" was an extraordinary gamble by jeff bukess when he was running hbo. he decided to bet the farm, $125 million on this epic series that didn't have any stars. bunch of young guys. it changed tv forever. >> that's what producers say, that you don't need a star to make tv, that tv makes the stars. >> wow. >> wow. >> $90 million budget for the first ten episodes.
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>> it's all around the world, all ten episodes. >> thumbs up, thumbs down, did you like it? >> i'm not the biggest into epic historical dramas but my editor loved it. >> come on, we want you, not the editor. >> did you watch the whole thing? >> i watched the first couple of ep episodes. >> then she turned on "girls." >> okay, thank you very much. up next, the gesture some st. louis rams players made at yesterday's game that has the st. louis police department extremely angry. plus, a handful of teens are reportedly already interested in ray rice now that he's once again cleared to play in the nfl. we'll go around the world with analysts. and a case that has free speech against disc at it threats. stay with us.
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welcome back, everybody. pope francis has wrapped a trip to turkey. the pontiff calling their pursuit a, quote, grave sin against god. nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel. >> reporter: after three days, the pope left for rome. there were no security incidents, no major protests, in a country that is 98% muslim. so the visit can only be considered a success. the pope left sounding more
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convinced than ever that isis most be stopped, stressing it to reporters on his plane. i won't soften the phrase, he said, they are forcing christians to flee from the middle east. on his last day in istanbul, the pontiff met with the leader of the world's orthodox christians. for over 1,000 years, relations between the two churches have been tough, at times descending into war. now they both face isis, giving christians in iraq and syria a stark choice, convert to islam or be killed. pope francis and bartholomew said they cannot resign themselves to a middle east without christians. some neighboring countries are scarred by an inhumane and brutal war, the pope said, calling it a profoundly grave sin against god. pope francis met with a small group of refugees, including some of the 1.6 million syrians
quote
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here. now safe from the war zone. where the u.s. launched 17 air strikes against isis around the syrian town of kobani. the pope has been outspoken about making the church more welcoming to a wide array of catholics. in turkey he was far more political. >> that was nbc's richard engel. the next hour of "morning joe" starts right now. welcome back to "morning joe." on set, mark halperin, donny deutsch and in baltimore, wes moore. >> it has been extraordinarily irresponsible over the past several months. and what the media has let pass as narrative we saw play out yesterday on an nfl football field. >> i'm puzzled. i missed something. the guys coming out like this. >> guys came out hands up don't
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shoot for the st. louis rams. what is so remarkable is they might as well have come out with a flying saucer attached to all of their heads in solidarity of michael brown being transported to venus on a flying saucer. because that happened as much as that happened. and that's according to grand jury testimony. that's according to witnesses. they are using his accomplice in the robbery that was with him at the time. who also claim that michael brown was shot in the back. and for some reason, the media attaches to these narratives that will stir up further protests. i got to say, i just got to a tipping point this weekend. there's another story in cleveland where a young boy tragically was shot dead. police officers got a 911 call. that he was waving a gun scaring the blank out of everybody in this public park. police officers came up. stopped. shot the young boy. he was 12 years old.
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but they had taken off the markings to make it look like a toy gun. do you know what "the new york times" put in the caption of the video? police officers shoot child with toy. this -- i don't know exactly who puts those -- attaches those. but we're doing such a grave disservice to police officers in this country by pushing a narrative. that they're just going around looking to shoot and kill black people. >> joe -- >> and somebody has to tell me. somebody needs to tell me why michael brown has been chosen as the face of black oppression. i see actually a reverse of what happened in trayvon. where right wingers clinged to this nasty thuggish guy. that chased a young black man
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through a neighborhood. simply because he was black. he was guilty, trayvon was guilty of walking while being black. and my right wing, nut job friends all embraced george zimmerman, a thug. if you don't think he's a thug, ask the women who lived with him. he's a thug. and right wingers embraced george zimmerman as a hero. and in so doing, they humiliated themselves. there are so many great people to embrace as heroes in the black community. that deciding you're going to embrace a guy that knocked over a convenience store. and then according to grand jury testimony acted in ways that would get my children shot. on staten island or in queens or
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in brooklyn. that's your hero? that's the reason you want to burn down black businesses, that small business owners in ferguson have worked their entire lives for? that's why you want to block african-american commuters with five children going to work in the bay area? and get them fired? really? this is your mission in life? donnn donny, i'm sorry, this ram thing, this was the final straw for me. i have sat here quietly and listened to b.s. being spewed all over this network and all over other networks. i can't take it anymore. i will say what i said last week. and i say this -- not to black
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children across america. because as i have said repeatedly on this show, time and time again to people like gene robinson. there are two justice systems in america. a young black man is treated much worse than a young white man. on the street. in the courtroom. in jail. there are two americas when it comes to criminal justice. and i have said that repeatedly. but, donny, in this case, if my child or your child knocked other a convenience store and then went down the middle of the street shouting profanities at a police officer. let's say on staten islands, in queens. and then went into the car and started punching the police officer and grabbing for his
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gun, probably be shot in the car. >> yeah, i saw you this morning. i was on the show this week. i said, am inmissing something here. i kind of got you going. look, i am a little left of center. i'm right of center. i could not agree with every word you said more passionately. it's not a black/white situation. it's a thug/police officer situation. i sit here, you know, and i'm going to sound like a grumpy old white guy. but am i missing something here? am i absolutely miss something here? that a criminal who goes into a cop car, goes after a cop, and then somehow his hands were up. this is not doing the black community any favors. >> you know what piss pisses me? i have people that let me say
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what i say on set and they sit and stare at me, slack jawed, and they're afraid to say anything on the air, even though they know it's b.s. you're the first to say what everybody says off set. i said this last week, that this would happen to a white guy. i had two white guys on set say to me, i remember the time i was blank. and i just got out of the car and the police officer pointed and screamed get the blank back in the car. and one of them said he didn't. he said, get in the car or i'll shoot you. that happens all the time. cops are tough all the time. are there more blacks that get shot than whites? yes, i'm sure there are. i'm sure we've got all the statistics and we can find the statistics. but in this event, there's a separation, wes moore, there's a separation between how i felt with trayvon martin who was basically chased through a neighborhood and shot because he
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was a black young man by a punk that didn't want black guys in his neighborhood. in this case, with trayvon. and perhaps i'm totally wrong. i don't -- wesley, don't want to discuss the criminal justice system. don't -- because i agree. it's uneven. it's unfair. just in this case, you've heard what donny and i have said. tell us where we're wrong. how we have it wrong. >> there's definitely differences between the case of martin and brown and the case of temir rice. it's not that michael brown has taken on the face of black oppression. the facts of the case are the facts of the case. there's a couple challenges. one is that by not even going, you know, to trial that police are -- there's still speculation about what the facts of the cases are. that's one thing i think people are still very concerned about. the second thing i think people are concerned about is this idea of rules of engagement. if everything lays out that
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michael brown was doing what he did prior to being shot to death, than that's inexcusable. but at the same time, people also have to understand michael brown was still an unarmed teen. and any time you have a situation like that there are certain rules of engagement that have to be applied and followed. this dynamic of police department training and police department execution of that training is something that comes into this equation as much as a black/white situation. >> let's start the training from now. what would the training be, white or black kid, reaching into a card, punching a police officer going for his gun? like, what would be -- let's start. blank piece of paper. we're going to train every police officer in the country differently now. what would play out differently? >> no, so if we look at the facts that we know it initially, right, was that trayvon martin -- was that michael brown actually was shot during the initial altercation of what happened. then as he proceeded to flee,
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that's where the training -- i've actually spoken with law enforcement about it. as michael brown continued to flee, that's where a lot of the speculation and the training then comes in. about, you know, was there actually a shot to the back while michael brown was running away. >> no, that's another lie that was put out there, that he was shot in the back. there was no forensic evidence that he was shot in the back. that was yet another lie that was propagated by his accomplice in the robbery who also claimed that he held his hands up and said "don't shoot." so that's the second lie. >> what also then becomes the distance between the second shot and the fatal shot. as i said on the show, i think there actually is room for not just common understanding in all this, because truthfully the job of law enforcement is extraordinarily difficult. i think the reason we have the rules of engagement we have and the reason we have to work on a
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better sense of trust within the community is actually in my opinion as much to protect and support the law enforcement as it is the individual community that they're required to serve. i think simply saying, you know, simply looking at the protest, hands up, don't shoot, is, you know, compliance of michael brown or his actions before and after, you know, him being fatally shot is not the full story. >> mika, what do you think, about the rams, what do you think about everything you've heard on the set, about people saying one thing when the camera's on and then saying something completely different when the camera's turned off? >> i'm not going to take all of that on, but i will say, when you talk about hero, i completely understand what you're saying there. but i think a lot of people see the situation as a symbol of the problems between the police and the community that are glaring. >> they are glaring. >> and i think they're important. and i think that's -- the shooting of michael brown is a
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touchstone to open the world's eyes to the deep risks there are in the country between the police and the community and the imbalance. i do think there's a lot of value in the frustration over the situation. not everybody is looking at it in the extreme way that you've described. i think we do need to take it really seriously. >> what do you mean not everybody looks at it -- >> i don't thing everybody looks at him as a hero. >> well, they're going -- >> i think a lot of people would have liked to have seen an indictment so they could really see the facts played out. >> giuliani, who i agree with on nothing, said, as a former u.s. prosecutor, it would have never even gone to a grand jury based on the evidence. they bent over backwards by going to a grand jury. >> find a jurisdiction in america where a guy knocks over a -- let's say, a white guy knocks over a convenience store, then he goes out, and then he rushes in and he starts push
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punching a cop, he runs away, starts charging back. find a grand jury in america that would convict that cop, a black cop, of shooting a white dude. you won't find it in america. check the laws. check the statutes. it would not happen anywhere in the whitest suburb of america. that black cop that shoots the white guy for doing the identical thing would not be indi indicted. >> i don't disagree with your main point but let's remember some facts that occurred after the incident. the body laid in the street for hours. >> it was despicable. >> the way local law enforcement handled it, the racial despaispy between the community -- >> i agree with all of this. >> you're saying the police officer and the young man who died, that that's the whole story about why people are making a big deal about that case. and it's not. the murder, i'm sorry, the
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death, is the thing that set this in motion. the way it was handled puts in sharp relief a lot of problems and not just in that community but around the country. and that's what's caused a lot of the emotion. had the body not laid in the street, had they handled it better, this would not be -- >> -- at least 40% african-american -- >> mika, again, donny and i have said what we said. i've been saying repeatedly since august that it's disgusting. that there's such a terrible racial inequity, not only the criminal justice system but also in ferguson specifically. also in ferguson specifically that it's absolutely terrible that that black man lay in the street for 4 1/2 hours. that's one area that no white man would lay in the street for 4 1/2 hours. there are places where there are great inequities. that said, at least get your signs right. if this movement is important
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enough to you, don't base them on a lie. if that commissioner of the national football league to suggest to the st. louis rams, their ownership, their coaches, their general manager and their players, that having players before the start of a national football league game make a gesture that suggests that st. louis police officers gun down young black men, saying, hands up, don't shoot, i suggest you have some work to do. not just on ray rice. you have some work to do to talk to those players. because the cops have every reason to be pissed off this morning. every reason in the world. if i defended everybody by saying what i said, trust me, 95% of america think just like me. just because there are cowards
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that won't say that on tv, that's your problem, it's not mine. still ahead on "morning joe," for all you espn fans out there, we're going around the horn with kevin blackstone and bob ryan. plus, disney's latest plans to cash in on its highly successful film "frozen." >> they're going to freeze people. >> and why one passenger thought it was okay to bring a 70 pound pot bellied pig on a plane. >> joe, come on. >> the airline allowed it. they said it was okay. >> what? >> we'll be right back. >> set mortimer right up here. i make a lot of purchases for my business.
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time now to take a look at the morning papers. the iraqi military is doling out salaries to at least 50,000 soldiers who don't even exist. false names are rampant on defense ministry payrolls, providing the latest evidence of the whiidespread corruption. they're tapping the military of nearly $400 million a year, although it's likely only a fraction of the actual cost. >> so "usa today," protesters and police on the streets of hong kong. had to use water hoses to push back the activists from storming government buildings. at least 40 demonstrator ace rested. the act visits are calling for free elections in one of the fiercest challenges to beijing since the 1989 uprising. >> nbc news now. police in afghanistan say they
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shot and killed a bird which may have been conducting a surveillance mission for the taliban. the officers say they killed the animal after noticing it was strapped with an antenna and what looked like a gps. also, it looked like -- >> wow. you have our drones, we have ours. >> the bird, which wasn't native to the area, was spotted walking along the highway in a region marked by violence. >> we get this from "the new york post." crew members on a u.s. airlines flight kicked off a passenger, get this, because her pet pig was smelling up the cabin. all right. so it was apparently incontinent. a company spokesperson said it was initially allowed on board because it was considered an emotional support pig. >> i have one of those. >> they're very loving. >> you hug them in bed -- >> they don't talk back. >> they don't talk back. >> they have a future that could smell like bacon. >> mm. >> under federal rules, monkeys and cats also qualify as this
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comfort animal. in this case -- >> other passengers -- >> i'm going to get me one. >> but passengers complained and the pig was booted off the pig. apparently was incontinent. >> well, it happens. >> some issues. >> the biggest animated film of all time is reportedly getting a sequel. disney's blockbuster "frozen" is set for a follow-up. that's according to idina menzel who provided the voice of "elsa." it brought in more than $1.2 billion worldwide. it also won an oscar for the best original song "let it go" which has been stuck in parent's heads -- >> so, mika, i know your children are older, have they seen it yet? >> one of them has. >> okay. >> yes. >> i've seen it 1,000 times. >> it's good, it's really good. it's on demand so now people can rent it. i think it's really popular for the kids. at christmastime, elsa gear, everywhere. >> elsa. >> it's very good.
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i mean, it's not "lion king" which i've seen 4,700 times with my children. >> i've never seen "lion king." >> oh, my god. >> up next, ray rice is able to sign with any team in the nfl but which team will take a chance on the troubled player?
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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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what's it going to take in your mind for another team to take a chance on ray rice? >> for them to look past the situation which i know is going to be hard. at the end of the day, he's a football player. that's what they should really be focused on because he's proven himself as a football player for seven years. there's never been a question on what he can do on the field. >> you think an owner and fans of the team can get that image or those images from that elevator tape out of their minds? >> with time. we know it's going to take some work. i think once he shows them who he is and, you know, they reach out to people here and they find out the things he's done, than i think it's definitely, you know,
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could help. >> that was jenay rice, wife of former baltimore ravens running back ray rice, on "today." joining us now, kevin blackstone and rob ryan. >> who wants to take a swing at the commish first? >> good morning. >> what did he do? >> the commissioner has of course lost credibility with you, me, the american public, the players. just about every unimportant constituency. because there's only one important constituency for him, the 32 owners. they're the ones who make the call. they don't seem too riled by any of this. >> why should they be? this has been a record setting nfl season. >> of course. ratings are good. business is fine. last week, the patriots had a 77-0 share in boston. probably had an 80 share yesterday when we get the news.
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yes, that's all true. that's what they pay attention to. but the fact is, the commissioner has now been found to have been at odds with the truth in the judgment of judge jones, who took the word of ray rice when all is said and done over the commissioners. we find him having lacked credibility. those 32 owners are the ones that have to make up their minds if they're embarrassed by it. >> we had a sports writer talking about perjury. is that a stretch? did the commissioner commit perjury? >> i think that's a stretch. i think what people need to be focused on quite frankly is the fact that title 7 of the civil rights act as amended provides some protection for people who are -- who have been convicted of crimes when it comes to seeking employment. or seeking reemployment. and i think that is something that applies to this particular case with ray rice.
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>> going to be picked up by -- you think indianapolis is going to pick him up? >> well, i think somebody's going to pick him up. somebody should pick him up. his trial -- his case has been adjudicated. he's still serving a probationary sentence under the court in new jersey, if he violates that, he can be brought back to court and tried for -- tried for his case. so, you know, i think this is something the nfl actually can be a leader on and not a laggard. the obama administration has filed lawsuits over the past several years against corporations who have used convictions and discriminated against people and employment. it's against the law. >> they both have credibility issues now, rice and goodell. bob, let me ask you, is it -- does it behoove both of these men to make the mess their message? and whoever gets their first is going to get their credibility first? >> i'm not too concerned about ray rice's credibility.
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i think he's been proven to be a truthful person. i'm still more concerned about ray rice, who he really is. i don't want to go too far a field here. when we saw that video, what's the most shocking thing? not that he punched her. the most shocking thing was his incredible lack of horror that he'd just done so. it was just, oh, matter of fact, drag her out. i'm still put off by that. i don't know who he ra yet. we do talk about his future employment. someone will take a look at him because teams have a need. i want to point out one thing. when we see how it all shakes out. whether this year or next year. i've heard a recent story in which he was ranked 55th and last, last year, amongst all nfl running backs by the various metrics they came up with. he's a dubious commodity right now anyway. >> as you know, running backs are gone through in this league like socks. they all get hurt. they have the lowest career expectancy. 2.7 years. of any position in the entire
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league. for somebody like ray rice who's been highly successful at that position for the last six or seven years, it would seem to strain credulity that no one would pick him up. >> also about how managers are looking at college player next april when they're getting ready to draft. janay rice said someone will pick up ray rice because he's, quote, a good football player. have the rules changed where you also have to be a good citizen or you just can't be an abhorrent citizen? >> we've been here before. we're going to be here if we have a conversation like this in ten years. talent is the first consideration. it is the predominant consideration most of the time. but there are obviously times when people cross the line to a degree that the talent is secondary. ie, eg, excuse me, aaron hernandez. there's always a point where you
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have to -- >> -- who drafts this guy after he's been accused of rape, after he's been convicted of shoplifting. after he behaved the way he did? does a guy like that get a second look he might not have gotten a year ago? >> absolutely, he will get a second look. he may not go as high as he would have, had those allegations not come up in the nastiness of that particular charge. bob's absolutely right. at the end of the day, especially when you talk about quarterback, a football player who has a heisman trophy under his belt who has not lost a football game in two years, who shows the kind of talent that he has, is going to get a look from somebody in the nfl. you know what, maybe he should. and maybe they should give him the kind of council he needs going forward as a young adult. >> bob, you agree? >> i totally agree. i think he'll be no worse than the second quarterback taken after marcus mariota. his talent is extraordinarily. he can win in the clutch, he's a
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terrific talent. he's salvageable. 21 years old. he, in my mind, is still salvageable. >> university of alabama, so of course i'm in the tank for the crimson tide. at the same time, i do fear oregon. but i look at fsu and, man, you talk about winning ugly. these guys, ranked number two, alabama went ahead of them, but these guys have redefined winning ugly. are they a good team? can they beat oregon? can they beat alabama? because they're struggling through a pretty weak schedule right now. >> but they haven't lost. that's the thing. it doesn't matter if you win ugly. at the end of the day, it's whether or not you win. and they've come back to win on the road. they've won when jameis winston had horrific games like he did this past weekend. they cannot spell lose, it's not part of their category. >> can they beat alabama? >> i believe we will be asking, are they really that good, as they're being handed the trophy on that night. if they win, we'll be going, how
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did this happen? they looked so shaky. they've just won their 14th straight game. >> they can do it. >> how do you think this latest ruling by the arbitrator will impact roger goodell's career? >> well, you know, the thing is, and bob touched on it earlier, is that roger goodell works at the behest of the owners. he returned to the owners last year record profits which is why they gave him a record salary. so unless and until those profits are impacted negatively, i think roger goodell is going to be in good standing with the owners. he is their shield. he takes the slings and arrows for them. >> thank you so much, gentlemen. good to have you on. still ahead, taking recycling to a whole new level. why replacing worn-out parts cannot only save a piece of equipment but it could help save the economy. >> this is an extraordinary story. >> we'll explain straight ahead. daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker?
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as the u.s. looks to dig itself out from the global recession, the importance of a strong manufacturing sector can't be overstated. we recently traveled to rochester, new york, where what's old is new again in more ways than one. >> don't look now, but it seems the rumors of america's manufacturing decline may be greatly exaggerated. and it's all thanks to a little known process called remanufacturing. rochester, new york, has become its thought capital. and dr. navel nasser is leading the charge. >> my colleagues in germany call
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me the pope of remanufacturing. because i feel like i'm preaching about the value of remanufacturing. >> reporter: not to be confused with refurbishing where defector parts are replaced. remanufacturing completely disassembled the equipment, evaluates every part and reassembles a new improved version. >> cheaper. lower environmental footprint. same quality that you expect in a new product. >> remanufacturing actually isn't new. henry ford was an early innovator in the '30s. a scarcity of materials during world war ii further popularized the practice. and now it's experiencing a sort of renaissance. the rochester institute of technology built an 84,000 square foot research facility dedicated to the process. and it's here where nasr and his colleagues help american companies innovate new remanufacturing techniques often at significant savings. >> you're able to bring one of those to -- so you're probably talking about $50 or less to
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replace something that would have been $550 brand-new. >> even the furniture in the lounge is remanufactured. now after 25 years the institute has become an important source of revenue and a prop to the entire regional economy. >> spun off one company that was number four in rochester's top 100 of privately held companies. it's that kind of sustained impact that makes this kind of facility such an important asset for our region and for the state. >> here with us now, group president at caterpillar, stu levenek. s from washington, president of alliance for manufacturing, scott paul. caterpillar is the sponsor of our special series. great to have you both on the show. >> we're talking about sustainability, stu. this is sustainability defined. here, you're taking old, making it new. talk about that. >> probably the easiest way to
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explain it for the average citizen is we all know about recycling. we bring in paper and plastic and wood and we turn it in for free because it's good for the environment. manufacturing is similar when you take an old used component that's beyond its normal life. you not only turn it in but we give that customer a brand-new, remanned component in exchange for half the price. >> you do this for jeeps. you do this for airplanes. it is extraordinarily expensive. over $11 billion worth of products in 2011. >> yeah, it's actually not expensive. we're bringing used, you know, cars in that frankly aren't very expensive. and reman them to a new condition. >> look at this, aerospace, $13 billion. heavy duty/off-road, 7.7 billion. vehicle parts, 6.2 billion. this is extensive.
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>> scott paul, how much part of the future of manufacturing is this? >> i think it's a significant role. that's one of the exciting things about manufacturing today. it's not your father's or your father's factory that you saw or henry ford's model of production. you have remanufacturing. you have democratized making through 3-d printings. "the washington post" today about the white house christmas decorations being generated by makers all over the country. you have artisan makers in cities like detroit making watches that bill clinton loves. you have the detroit three coming back. i think there's great potential for manufacturing. and the sustainability -- >> does the united states have advantage -- does the u.s. have an advantage in remanufacturing? is it something because of the research in rochester, because of what caterpillar does? is this something that might mean nor jmore jobs for the uni states in the future?
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>> it could. we have the preeminent system of universities, research and development around the world. a lot of what makes manufacturing in the united states valuable is that innovation. we have the know-how. america has been making things for more than 200 years. we have a highly productive workforce. we have another emerging advantage as well and that's energy with the abundance of natural gas and oil. it's bringing energy costs down for manufacturing. it used to be more labor insensitive. it's now more energy intensive. >> what does this mean for american jobs? as we look at this from a deconstruction point of view and also from a sustainability point of view? and millennials that want to buy or invest in products or invest like this, what does it mean for the american worker? >> it is a great opportunity to grow in a business that's not only environmentally friendly
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but economically positive for the economy. we've been at this for four years. we have this for 17 locations around the world. >> mississippi you say is one of the main ones. >> it's one of the main ones in the united states. >> mississippi's a big one. >> i love the way it also cha e changes the mind-set of what we make, what we manufacture. because we're in such a throwaway society. everything gets thrown away. everything gets thrown away. many of the things that we do that with are valuable, usable. maybe even better second time around. >> the first thing i think is important to understand is do it well, you've got to design with an end in mind. we have to resign our components to be rebuilt. at a new price or new condition, a fraction of the new price, which is a great deal for customers and a good deal for businesses as well. >> fantastic. >> stu and scott, thank you so much. good to have you both on the
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show. our series continues tomorrow with a look at coal mines turning back into nature preserves in north dakota. >> extraordinary. >> it's amazing. up next, when does social media turn into criminal behavior? a look at the case before the supreme court, what happens when online posts cross the line. we'll be right back. as thnew players in newge in thmarkets face a choice: do it fast and cheap. or do it right. for almost 90 years, we've stayed true to the belief that if you put quality in, you get quality out. it's why everything we build, we build to last. build on progress.
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we've got breaking news. islamic state militants have attacked a checkpoint along the border with syria, killing at least 15 iraqi border policemen. according to a senior army official. at least five officers were wounded via the attack. much of the violence in iraq has been unfolding in the volatile anbar province, the main headquarters of the militant forces. so we'll be following that story as more information comes in. today, the supreme court will hear a case testing the limits of free speech in the age of the internet. anthony ilanai has been in prison for three years for posting violent rap lyrics about killing his estranged wife on
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facebook. claiming the posts were therapeutic and he didn't plan to act on the threats. among the posts being used as evidence, there's one that reads, quote, if i only knew then what i knew now, i would have smothered your [ bleep ] with a pillow, dumped your body in the back seat, dropped you off in toad creek and made it look like a rape and a murder. she testified the comments made her fear for her life. today, the supreme court will decide if such online posts deserve first amendment protection. >> no. i mean, enough is enough. i'm sorry. so much for that. >> yeah. >> let's bring in right now, the supreme court nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. we talk around the table a good bit about how sort of this wild, wild west when it comes to policing the internet. actually has very negative consequences for the type of
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people we attract to run our government. but this case, it doesn't touch quite on that. but what's the supreme court going to be looking at? >> there are two legal tests. one is the joe scar breaborough. the other is the legal test. under the first amendment, true threats don't get first amendment protection. just as obscenity doesn't get it or libel doesn't get it. the quote here is, how do you know if it's a threat? what is the test? when the man from pennsylvania was convicted, the judge said whether a reasonable person would consider these a threat. his lawyers are saying to the supreme court today, no, no, the test is what was in his mind. what did he intend? so that's the question. is the threat in the eye of the sender or the receiver. >> pete, let me ask you, is the medium the message? does somebody get a free pass if it's written in a letter or published in a newspaper? >> probably the answer to that
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is no, but there's something different about the internet. but what his lawyers are saying here is one of the problems with the -- in the eye the sender test is that when you post something on facebook, and that's where these messages were, these were not addressed to anyone. and so they could be read by people who had no idea who he is, who don't know the context, and so you can't judge it by the eye of the beholder. nonetheless, the obama administration is arguing that you have to be very careful about these. they're basically upholding his conviction and saying no, the test is what is in the eye a reasonable person. >> all right, pete, follow up here, obviously, justice ginsburg's going to be attending today's arguments, after having that stent procedure last week. she's had a very difficult time healthwise over the past several years. >> doing well apparently. >> still seems to be doing very well. >> yes, indeed. we haven't seen her yet this morning. she's not what you would call a
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morning person. but we do expect her to be on the bench. she had the stent. she was in the hospital over the weekend. she was released on friday. and the court is saying they should be back today. that's certainly our expectation. it would be surprising if he wasn't. it would be in keeping with her past performances and her last two bouts with cancer. she never missed a day on the bench. >> what's happening with the president's executive order? where is that? is that appealed to the d.c. circuit? >> yes, the lawsuit challenging the executive order. it's going to be a long time before it works its way through. we have a long way to go. >> pete williams, thank you very much. appreciate it. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today?
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i'm meteorologist bill karins. we're starting december very cold in the northern plains. windchill values as low as negative 30. so a high today of only 6 in minneapolis. certainly feels and looks like the middle of winter. the southern half of the country, still mild. one more mild day for you on the east coast. enjoy. soup tastes like my homemade. it's our slow simmered vegetables and tender white meat chicken. apology accepted. i'm watching you soup people. make it progresso or make it yourself
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ensure. take life in. i'i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it's so, what's the word?... sexy. go national. go like a pro. hey, welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. mika, what have we learned? >> i like pigs and babies on planes. they can cry and squeal all they want. >> i know, but i don't know, this service pig, this woman got kicked off for her 70 pound pig.
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>> this is an emotional support pig. >> claiming it relieves her anxiety. the poop and squealing it delivered on the flight delivered too much anxiety for other passengers. so little bacon got kicked to the curb. arnold the pig would never do that. we were talking earlier about "green acre" and how interesting it was the makers of "green acres" designed to make arnold the pig the smartest person in town. >> what did you learn today? >> i learned from ron fornier. we were talking about heroes and who role models should be. how some on the right have selected some of the wrong role models. here's a great role model. rosa parks. today's the anniversary. when rosa parks decided she would not sit in the back of the bus and she would not give up her seat for a white man. and in so doing, rosa parks helped change history.
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in an extraordinary way. >> beautiful. >> itf it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around because "the rundown" is starting right now. >> have a good day. good morning, i'm jose diaz-balart. first, ferguson fallout in the nation's capital. president obama will hold a day of meetings, including one with his cabinet, to discuss a relationship between police and their communities. the oval office attention comes just two days after officer wilson's resignation. also in the nation's capital, traffic once again moving on the 14th street bridge after a protest there earlier today against the grand jury's decision not to indict wilson. demonstrators are blocking traffic in washington, d.c. in st. louis yesterday, five players from the rams walked out in the hands up don't shoot pose. we'll have more on the angry reaction from the st. louis police union in just a few moments. nbc's chris jansing and ron al
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reason following the developments from the white house. and in ferguson. and we start, chris, with you. good morning. >> good morning, jose. >> another busy day for the president. >> he has a good part of his day dedicated to ferguson. it's going to start at noon today with a meeting of his cabinet. that's going to focus on something that was really a conversation back in august after the shooting. and after police came out into the streets of ferguson with assault-type weapons, with riot gear. a lot of criticism of a program that gives surplus military equipment to local and state governments and whether or not that's really necessary. whether or not the proper reviews are being done for who gets what, and if they do get it, are they properly trained. so there's an ongoing review of that. he's going to be talking about his cabinet with that. followed by a meeting with young civil rights leaders. we've heard the president in the past talk about his own memories, being a young man and how he felt suspicion simply by the fact he was

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