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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  March 11, 2015 3:00am-6:01am PDT

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okay. here we go. it's the top of the hour. welcome to "morning joe." we have the managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halpern. former governor, ed rendell in washington columnist for bloomberg view al hunt. editorial director of "national journal," ron foreignier and syndicated columnist, bob franken. >> boy, we have a lot to get to. we have to start, at least, with the "new york post". >> that's pretty good. >> deleter of the free world. "the washington post" also has hillary on the front page talking about the press conference yesterday. "the new york times" also has her on the front page. i think i saw the -- >> every single page. >> every single one. "wall street journal" has her on the front page. >> a lot of good coverage. >> the "usa today" has her on the front page. >> she's getting her name out there. >> not the "new york daily news". >> and of course the "daily news" -- >> that's interesting. >> hillary clinton is facing
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questions this morning, even more questions after breaking her silence about her use of a private e-mail account while serving as secretary of state. the united nations served as the backdrop for tuesday -- on tuesday for clinton's attempt to end the controversy ahead of a likely bid for the white house in 2016. as for the main question as to why she only used a personal e-mail she says it was simply because that was the easiest option available. >> when i got to work as secretary of state i opted for convenience to use my personal e-mail account, which was allowed by the state department because i thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal e-mails, instead of two. looking back it would have been better if i had simply used a second e-mail account and carried a second phone, but at the time this didn't seem like an issue. looking back it would have been better for me to use two
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separate phones and two e-mail accounts. i thought using one device would be simpler and obviously it hasn't worked out that way. >> but less than three weeks ago, clinton admitted at a conference in silicon valley that she currently has more than one phone. >> iphone or android? >> iphone. okay. in full disclosure -- >> blackberry? >> and a blackberry. i don't throw anything away. i'm like two steps short of a hoarder. so i have a, you know, an ipad, a mini ipad, an iphone and a blackberry. >> it's just -- this is so ridiculous. >> clinton also says any e-mail she considered personal has been deleted. >> because we all know the first e-mails you go to delete are e-mails about your children's wedding. i go through -- oh, my god! we don't want any record of that around! oh wait i'm sorry, those are
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the ones you keep there and you can't -- >> her office says it's nearly 32,000 e-mails, more than half of all the e-mails in the account. >> geez. >> we went through a thorough process to identify all of my work-related e-mails and deliver them to the state department. at the end, i chose not to keep my private, personal e-mails. e-mails about planning chelsea's wedding or my mother's funeral arrangements condolence notes to friends, as well as yoga routines, family vacations, the other things you typically find in inboxes. no one wants their personal e-mails made public and i think most people understand that and respect that privacy. >> i think, mika do you buy that? >> tech experts also question clinton's insistence that her private e-mail server was -- >> because i've got to tell you, if i had a server that i had put
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in against guidelines and regulations, i would have no problem with people going through my personal e-mails. e-mails about my kids e-mails about my yoga classes, e-mails about all these things. you wouldn't have any problem doing that. in fact, if you want to clear it out, there's some personal stuff in here look at it and just take out what actually has to do with state department business. >> yeah. >> it's pretty obvious. >> clinton says her server was set up for her husband and is resisting calls to turn over the server. >> we have more than met the requests from the state department. the server contains personal communications from my husband and me and i believe i have met all of my responsibilities and the server will remain private and i think that the state department will be able over time to release all of the records that were provided.
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>> yeah, you know i can understand, actually if you have you know, in the law, mika, this is very simple. you have sort of a spousal, just like you -- there's lawyer/client confidentiality -- there's a spousal confidentiality. so if you say, i killed the butler with poison in mr. green's room or whatever in clue. that statement is privileged. because it's between two spouses. who in the world wouldn't understand that these clintons who are part they fly all over the world, they had to talk to each other via e-mail right? so we understand that. the american people understand that. >> right. right. >> so what's wrong with that?! >> well there's that problem. >> what problem? >> that they don't e-mail. >> no but she just said that that's why she didn't turn it over, because they e-mail. >> well uh --
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>> listen if we're going to get to intrusive into their relationship that we don't allow them to carry on a loving kind relationship over e-mail because they travel so long i'm sorry, that is a step too far. >> so a spokesman for bill clinton says the former president has only sent two e-mails, ever. >> but i'm sure they were loving e-mails to her, like when she was at the state department right? >> no those were during his presidency. i don't think that was a good time. >> one was to john glen. >> okay. >> 50% of all his e-mails to john glen. >> god speed john glen? >> willie, listen, i was floored, because i was going with that whole spousal thing. >> you're not going to defend this, are you? >> willie try. >> to me, what remains after yesterday's press conference is a question we asked at the very beginning, was that why did hillary clinton and her attorneys have the discretion over what the state department got to see. why is she deciding what goes inside the public record?
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so she can say that more than half, 32,800 some e-mails were personal in nature want yoga and the wedding and everything else but how did -- that's what i'm saying that. >> every employee does that's the law, she said yesterday. >> what?! >> mark halperin it's not the law. she can't decide she's not going to turn that server over. >> well, yes, she can. >> well no she really can't. >> it's the discretion of employees as you leave the government to make the determinations, as she said yesterday, as to what you make part of the public record. >> mark if you're seriously buying into this then you have serious problems. we have something called the freedom of information act -- >> that's different. >> we have something called transparency. what you are suggesting is legal is for somebody that is in the state department or the d.o.d. or in the white house to make the unilateral decision that they are not going to abide by the 2009 standard that says you
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have to back up all e-mails into the servers, and that you can just take them home and delete what you want to delete. >> that's a separate question. she was at best cavalier about the freedom of information act. she didn't address that yesterday. it's one of the main things she didn't get asked about. but in terms of the point that willie raised in terms of who decides which e-mails need to be part of the public record. as she said on that piece of it, that one piece, there's still other pieces on that piece, it's up to the employee at their discretion to say, this needs to be part of the public record. >> joe, i can shed some light on that. >> thank you so much. >> the federal records act is a -- >> you had that in your pocket. >> is interpreted by the state department's foreign affairs manual outlines guidance quote, helped to design employees discover which of their e-mail messages must be preserved as federal records and which must be deleted without further authorization, because they are not federal records. >> i don't find it stunning that james carville sent that to you last night. i do find it stunning what mark
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halperin is saying right here. >> but it's true joe. >> it's also true -- >> she was required -- >> a manual that you just keep in your house next to your cereal. >> look it up! >> in 2009 -- ron fournier please step in here. this is turning into a cartoon. >> to be ironic here, with all due respect to mr. halperin, the argument that mark is making is like saying, somebody who robs a bank, once they get the money to their house, they get to decide how much to return. what we're overlooking here what she conveniently overlooked here is that she has total right to use a personal account. she wants to make that the case because that's not a problem. she can have a personal account. what she can't do is have that account stored outside of the government servers. so she -- against violation, clearly against violation, stored all of that on a private, dark server registered to her house, kept secret from foi
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requests, kept secret from the white house. and now she gets to say, i get to decide which one of those i will return back to the government. those are our e-mails. that is, in effect i think, our server. now, no one wants to see her private e-mails. no one's asking to see her private e-mails. nobody wants to intrude on her personality, on her, you know, her personal life but what we do have to see, for the sake of transparency, for the sake of honesty, for the sake of the integrity and trust in government are all work-related e-mails. look what she set up now. she has decided on her own, what is a personal e-mail? well, i wonder if she thinks that e-mails that she sent to donors to her family's personal charity, i wonder if she thinks those are personal. so there's a little quid pro quo going on -- >> ron, i agree -- >> she doesn't have to turn it over. because those are personal e-mails. that's my charity. >> ron i agree with everything that you said except on two points. one is they do want to see her personal e-mail. they're asking to see the
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server. and she objects to that. >> the server -- yes, the server -- no no. i'm not asking -- she should turn over the server and then federal archivists would go through and as if they would if she had followed the law and kept it in custody of the government. >> but the other thing is at the phase of which an employee and again, i agree with everything else you said and her cavalier attitude towards the freedom of information act was wrong, i think. but the phase of which any employee goes through their e-mails and decides which ones need to be part of the public record she exercised the same discretion as she said yesterday, that every employee is allowed to do. >> after she secrets them into her own server. she's taken them out of our custody, and now we're going to say, okay you get to decide what to do with them. it's one thing if she kept them where they're supposed to belong. once she's violated the law, i think she has no right now, no moral standing to -- >> and ron's exactly right. she violated a 2009 regulation that was clear, the letter and the spirit of it was clear.
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if you do not keep your e-mails in the state department server, if you don't do it then you have the responsibility to be proactive and back up all of those e-mail on our server. >> she said she did. >> bob? >> no no. >> no. >> what planet -- >> in the report -- in the q&a they put out, she said once -- she said it's got to be verified. >> the ones that she chose -- >> hold on guys, just stop. the ones that she chose. i'm not going to let misinformation go out on my show. this is misinformation. if hillary had backed up all of the e-mails that she used on that server in the state department we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. what he's saying is i went through, ron fournier i went through all of these e-mails, these are the 55,000 e-mails i decided to turn over. i'm not turning over anything else that i don't want to turn over. physical they were all backed up ton state department server we
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wouldn't be having this discussion right now. >> it's very simple. and we've got to stop helping the clinton parse this. those are government e-mails. the government are supposed to decide which are truly private, if she chooses to put private e-mail on a government account, then the government decides which ones are private. and she's the one who started this by putting them in a government account. >> ron, that's not correct. >> it is correct. >> the manual says that each employee including hillary clinton, decides which are personal and which are federal, and they can delete the personal ones. that's in the manual. >> willie? >> but you know what the problem with the manual sir? that manual applies to e-mails that have been stored legally, correctly, on a government server. >> stop guys. >> if you're doing it illegally and set up your own home server that doesn't apply. that applies if it's stored according to the 2009 regulation in the state department. >> just so we have clarity on this, i want to read october 2nd 2009 okay?
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and we can make what you will of this. the u.s. code of federal regulation. agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency record-keeping system. >> and here's what she says she did. again, i'm not saying she did it and i don't want to be cast here as defending everything she did. but what she said she did is most of the e-mails were sent to other government employees and therefore were captured, and she says in the q&a they put out afterwards any e-mails she sent, that was a work e-mail that wasn't something that was preserved that way she forwarded to someone else in the state department. >> that's just bogus! >> because she gets to choose. >> mark? >> and when she's doing it quid pro quo -- >> no. >> or if she sends an e-mail on benghazi, or if she sends something on the clinton foundation, and she decides to delete it.
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why is hillary clinton the only person in the federal government that gets to determine what e-mail she's going to pass along to the state department. that is very -- >> i agree. >> there is nobody else in the federal government. hillary clinton would never allow this would never allow a subordinate of her to run their business that way. >> she wouldn't have her secretary of state. >> and she didn't address it yesterday. >> we have bob franken with us. bob, you covered the clintons for many years. what do you make of what we saw yesterday? >> well first of all, i think we speak for everybody here when i say that i personally want to see about everything that she has about her yoga routines. i think it is important for the public to know all about that. but, on a serious note an answer to your question. this is very very much the way that the clintons have operated since i've been covering them and i suspect that ron will agree, because we pretty much built our careers, our early careers on covering the clintons and the variety of questions and controversies that came up.
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they would in effect the derogatory word is to stonewall. for instance, her saying i choose not to let my servers be available. joe, you're lawyer. you know if a court orders her to turn over her servers, that's going to happen. >> right. >> so what's she's doing, i suspect, is digging herself into a little bit of a hole and hoping that from a political point of view, this is the kind of thing that is forgotten over time. >> you know, it's very funny you say that bob, as a lawyer i was sitting there and she said i'm not going to turn it over, and i just laughed. i looked at -- that's not your decision. that's not your server. that server belongs to the american people. >> but that's -- >> and i'm afraid you're not going to be the one to decide that. >> but that is the way that we came to expect that they would operate during all the controversy that came up. notice i'm not using the word "scandal." but as the questions were raised about white water and the travel office and all of this kind of
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thing, what they would first do is dig in their heels and see if they could get away with it. and when some persistent official would pursue them on that, then quite frankly, they would cave. and i suspect that if this goes on we're going to see that same kind of thing happen. >> and you certainly have people that will still say, see, nothing ever came of white water. they forget that they hid the rose law firm billing records for 2 1/2 years and then they showed up magically at the white house and everyone sort of laughed it off. oh isn't that cute? they probably destroyed evidence over those two years. why wouldn't you turn something over? >> well we can't say that they destroyed evidence. >> you can't, you know why? because they didn't turn it over. they had position of it for two years. >> you will recall that when the jig was up so to speak, and the records were discovered the first lady of the united states ended up having to testify before a grand jury investigating that. talk about a humiliating circumstance.
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>> but much better to be in that grand jury situation, al hunt where you can say, i don't know what happened to those records that were in my position for two years and showed up magically inside my living quarters in the white house. i mean what happened to the evidence? we'll never know. it looks like it's the same thing with these e-mails. we've been talking substance, al hunt. we've been talking about manuals and regulations. let's go to style now. how did hillary do yesterday for the democrats that want to nominate her as their presidential nominee 2016? >> given a bad hand joe. i think she did pretty well yesterday. she was poised she was fairly forceful. i think everything she did was wrong. i don't think it violated the law. she shouldn't have had a private server. i can't understand over how half your e-mails would be personal. thank god for andrea mitchell who as usual, asked the pointed question. but i have to say i laugh when ron fournier says no one wants to see your personal e-mails.
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of course trey gowdy and everybody else wants to see something that might embarrass her. i think what this hinges on now is how much else there is, is there stuff in what she's turned over that will give this story more legs. as of today, i think this is a huge story inside the beltway in manhattan. i doubt there are a whole lot of people in stark county ohio who are saying boy, i'm really worried an the server hillary clinton used. >> so the clintons will send people out screaming and spitting and swearing and we're just talking about james there. that are going to say, this is much ado about nothing. let me just ask you, al hunt a guy who's never been considered a right-wing dope is this an important story to you? >> on a scale of 1 to 10 it's about a 3, 3 1/2. >> only a 3 1/2 to you, huh? >> yeah. >> why's that? >> i think a bigger story is her record as secretary of state, joe. >> yeah. interesting. >> and i think the clinton foundation story may be a bigger story too. >> well and --
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>> do you think the e-mails has something to do with that? >> therein lies the problem. this is connected to the clinton foundation. hillary clinton may define any information about the clinton foundation as a personal issue and not a state department issue, which is by the way, where you've come from this from the very beginning, ron. >> right. i've had democrats very close to the clintons tell me what you've got to do here is follow the money. there's been a lot of allegations and some concrete reporting on pay-to-play around the foundation if we're ever to get to the bottom of that we need to see these e-mails, the relevant e-mails, the ones that you know pertain to any communications with donors. i think this actually -- we're looking at this too narrowly to say this doesn't matter. our people in mccomb county michigan, really paying attention to this? of course no. but they never are to a controversy or scandal or flap in the moment. what they do look at is the whole narrative around the campaign. if they're seeing this is another, we're going back to the '90s, we're going to be dragged through this parsing and
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victimization and partisan battling and -- they're going to be tired of it. also, this shows what kind of leader would she be. we can't just look at somebody's record. what kind of attributes do you have. are you somebody who believes the ends justify the means? are you somebody who will cut any corner who will raise whatever money you can to pad your foundation. those are things that go to what kind of leader she might be and she really didn't show the kind of attributes i'm looking for yesterday, to tell you the truth. >> rob fournier and bob franken, thank you so much. al hunt, stay with us if you can. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to talk to the house democratic whip congressman steny hoyer, plus the chairman of the select committee on benghazi, congressman trey gowdy on his plans to compel hillary clinton to testify. plus, inside isis. the author of a new book on the terror group takes us behind enemy lines. >> plus we're going to be talking about that letter that has gotten 47 u.s. senators
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called traders and caused a real uproar in washington, d.c.. >> and look at this joe, on tomorrow's show the man poised to challenge hillary clinton for the democratic nomination former governor martin o'malley joins us for an exclusive interview. you won't want to miss it. that's tomorrow on "morning joe." i'm a weight watchers coach. all of us have lost weight with weight watchers and are now helping other people to do the same. log into your computer or your phone anytime, and you can chat with me. you can do it. i know you can do it because i did it. join for free today. hurry, offer ends march 14th.
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all right, time now -- you all right? >> except i'm using guttural noises to communicate. >> let's take a look at the morning paper, shall we? the "st. louis post-dispatch." the city manager of ferguson missouri, john shaw, has resigned. last week's report blamed him for being racially motivated. he said while i certainly respect the work of the d.o.j. recently performed in their investigation and the report on the city of ferguson i must
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state clearly that my office has never instructed the police department to target african-americans nor falsify charges to administer fines nor heap abuses on the back of the poor. any inferences of that kind from the report are simply false. let's go to the bbc news. romania is apologizing to germany after its foreign minister distributed a foreign relations booklet featuring a german flag superimposed on a map of france. >> what? >> the book was handed to a german diplomat during a news conference. romania's foreign ministry says the gaffe was, quote, a regrettable technical error. >> not really good in geography. but in their defense, from 1940 to 1945 there was a german flag in france. disney had tapped tim burton to make a remake of "dumbo." it will use a mix of cgi effects and live to tell a story of the flying elephant. it continues disney's recent
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trend of making live action versions of its popular -- >> dumbo's going to have six hands. >> "new york times." the new york city board of health has voted to keep in place a 16-year ban on ferrets. lifting the ban would have allowed ferrets to join the ranks of other domesticated pets. they remain legal in the rest of new york, but are banned in some states across the u.s. including california and washington. >> so my family and i -- >> they freak me out. >> -- will have to continue living in connecticut. we had to move -- >> how many ferrets do you have right now? >> to 14 now. >> just crawling all over the place. >> there's nothing cuter than when i see jack come out early in the morning with a ferret out on a leash. >> and goes into the birthday cake. coming up, "the weekly standard's" bill kristol and the national urban league's mark morial. we'll dig into the must-read opinion pages and the other top stories of the day, including
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32 past the hour. joining the table, we have ted tor of "the weekly standard," bill kristol. and the president and ceo of the national urban league marc morial. very good to have you both on this morning. there is more fallout this morning on the campus of
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oklahoma university. two fraternity members caught chanting racial slurs in a youtube video have been expelled from the university. >> and now those two students have been identified as 19-year-old parker rice and 25-year-old levi pettitte both from dallas texas. let's bring in gabe gutierrez, he's on the campus in norman oklahoma. gabe, good morning. >> reporter: joe good morning. there is a lot of outrage here on the campus of the university of oklahoma. the university's president says he hopes the expulsion of two students shows that the campus has a zero tolerance policy for what happened. it is the chant that shocked the country. one of the students involved has been identified. the student pumping his fist is parker rice a university of oklahoma freshman who graduated from a jesuit prep school in dallas last year. >> i'm not only appalled, but saddened and hurt that here we are, 2015 and we're still
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dealing with issues of racism and bigotry. >> we're not going to let this define the university and send a message. >> now this short clip posted on vine showing bhuton gill beau the long time house mother at lu using the same racial slur. a written statement, she says she is heartbroken by any racist portrayal. she does not tolerate any form of discrimination and she was only singing along to a rap song. at the sae house, members rushed to move out before the midnight deadline. the fraternity shut down leaving its cook without a job. online donors have raised about $50 thourksz for him. >> it's like getting punched in the stomach. >> reporter: jonathan davis says he was the first african-american pledge ever at sae's chapter. >> that house has turned into a symbol for modern-day racism. >> reporter: we spoke with a senior who asked we not use her name or show her face because
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she didn't want to be associated with the fraternity. she said she heard the same chant on a bus two years ago at a sae date party. the fraternity's national headquarter says it's investigating the those claims bulb any suggestion this chant was a tradition is false. university officials here say they're investigation is not over and that more students could be disciplined. joe, back you. >> thanks so much gabe. the two students identified in the vision are apologizing. in a statement provided by levi pettit's parents "we were shocked and saddened by this news as anyone." a statement by rice i made a horrible mistake by joining and singing and encouraging others to do the same.
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the song was taught to us but that too doesn't work as an explanation. mark morial we were talking yesterday with gene robinson who said it's really bizarre. a lot of these incidences aren't happening in places that you expect them to happen in the deep, deep south. you're getting it in ferguson, missouri up in oklahoma it's -- what -- >> it's troubling, it's disturbing, it's hurtful, but, you know, joe, here's the thing. i want to lift up david boring the president of the university because he took a strong decisive stand. he didn't wait. he didn't equivocate. and he took swift action as the leader of a great institution of higher education should do. but what troubles me greatly is the statement that the song was taught, which means it must be part of the culture and the tradition of this fraternity. and it raises significant questions about the culture of
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the fraternity the culture of the fraternity house, the consumption of alcohol and a whole range, i think, of issues. so while it is hurtful, let's lift up david bore and force decisive action. but this you know is just another incident that points to the challenges we have as a nation. and sometimes, these incidents represent a wake-up call and help us all deal with it. because pushing it under the cover, pretending that it doesn't occur, is not the best way to purge it from american life. >> now, how do you know this mika? mika's pulled this up. >> there's a band that was going to perform there next week. and i'm just -- they performed before there -- >> but they canceled obviously, because they were shocked -- >> actually one of the lead singer, i guess, said they were shocked and they could not believe how horrible the language was. >> and the punch line is? >> i'm looking at their lyrics
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and i can't say the words that are in there. >> the words in their lyrics all throughout their lyrics are some of the words used there. so you talk about culture as well. >> because it exists in music and i've heard some people defend it -- >> nobody's defending it -- >> no, no. i've heard people not on this show, defend the use of the word because it appears or it's heard in hip hop lyrics or certain gangster rap lyrics. and that does not sanction it. that does not make the use of this word or any word, because there are disparaging words that we've heard about various ethnic groups in america. this one, you know, is damaging it's hurtful, and, you know when i was growing up -- >> is it has hurtful when a black singer says it than when a drunk redneck says it? >> it's not right when a black singer says it. it's not right when a drunk redneck says it. >> it's hurtful in both cases. >> and i've written columns, made speeches over the years
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about, we need to retire the word, we need to eliminate the word from our vocabulary. we need to put it on the shelf. >> how's that working in hip hop culture? >> i couldn't tell you, because i don't follow it closely enough. you know? and it's a valid thing. but it's also important to understand that in this instance, in this instance what i find most troubling, is whether it is part of the process of pledging and the culture of that fraternity. and that's the thing that the university and the fraternity needs to be introspective about. >> you know what's interesting is that they do have black pledge brothers willie. you can go to a lot of schools across the deep south, where fraternities and sororities are still segregated. >> yeah. in fact, one african-american alumni of this fraternity at ou came out in defense of the house mother that we saw there, and
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says, she's taken my family in you know she's said great things about her and said she was singing along to a sign -- i'm not excusing it certainly, but said she was singing along to a song that she was encouraged to sing along to. but i'm with you. i listen to a lot of hip pop. that word is still out there. >> it sure is. >> it's all over the place. >> i understand why a lot of artists use it. they say we're taking the word back, we remove the power from it when we use it in this way. >> no. >> but i would love to see that word eliminated along with a few other things. >> and it would be nice if big-shot corporate record executives were as responsible as david boren. these hip hop artists -- >> who came to that campus -- >> -- are not just producing these things on youtube videos on their own. and it's not just racism. what about the way they talk about young women? aren't the executives responsible for that? >> and i think it's the accountability of those that make money, that distribute that sanction the use of these words or any -- what i would
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call disparaging. we need to come to a point in the country, where we say, okay you can claim a right to say what you need to say, but there needs to be a level of decency and civility about how we talk about each other and about how we have a conversation. and i don't think it's polyanaish to say that. >> you can say it. >> and how we talk about ourselves. mika just pulled up another set of lyrics from this group -- >> that performed for that from fraternity. >> if you look at the lyrics -- >> it's unbelievable. >> it's as bad as the chant. >> if you scream it and make money doing it all of these young college students. and then they go out -- >> are you with me? >> and everything's burned down. i think it's disgusting in both instances. >> i just wish thatey wouldn't get so self-righteous.
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>> if this is a real group. i'm not up on the ins and outs of -- >> thanks so much mark. bill kristol, stay with us. we'll be talking about this and hillary next. and why the biggest threat from isis may come 25 years in the future. we'll explain that, next. ♪ it's not about hugging trees. it's not about being wasteful either. you just gotta find that balance. where taking care of yourself
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at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. at this hour a final push is underway for a key battle against islamic state militants. it is taking place in saddam hussein's hometown of tikrit about 90 miles north of baghdad. officials say iraqi forces are now back in control of large sections of the city and that isis is retreating. the offensive involves more than 30,000 iraqi troops and shiite militias. it would be considered a key victory before an offensive later this year to regain control of mosul, iraq's second largest city. and this dramatic video purportedly shows kurdish fighters blowing up a truck
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belonging to isis fighters. nbc has not been able to verify the video's authenticity. >> bill kristol, right now, the iranians are -- our allies the iranians marching north and actually doing a lot of boots on the ground work for us. >> iranian-backed shia militias. assist horrible situation and degenerating to the worst -- we have brutal terrorists on both sides slaughtering each other and that's where the middle east is descending to through large swaths of syria and iraq. and people can sit here and say, oh, well, let them kill each other. and that's true to a small degree. but it's like having two gangs in the city fighting each other, and for a while you're safe in your suburban area and then they decide let's take advantage of the nice people next-door. and then the whole middle east is slaughtered between iranian-backed thrift eded terrorist thugs and isis.
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>> but you would not like to see isis fight back the -- >> i would like to see us beat isis. >> but right now, aren't you glad that the iranian-backed shia militia are beating down isis from the south -- >> it's so horrible it's hard not to say i'm glad. but because of the number of shia atrocities about to be created against the sunnis and create recruiting grounds for isis. >> just for all my friends inside the control room if kristol says anything that makes it sounds he's not glad isis is getting beat put down below, kristol, i'm for isis. >> benjamin hall is the author of the new book "inside isis: the brutal rise of a terrorist army." >> so benjamin right now, isis seems to be on the run, on several fronts doing well. "the new york times" says in libya. but you say the biggest dangerous is 25 years in the future. why? >> that's right. i think that when it comes to the iranians coming up to the
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shia militia, what we're ignoring are the underlying problems that allowed isis to thrive. this is saddam's hometown. this is a sunni hot land. and for shia militia to go in they will not be welcomed. the big problem, though with 25-year plan is that bombing them from the air has done a lot in terms of preventing their spread. they can't move and take more territory. but what they are doing, they're digging in. you know they cover every city they control with countless ieds and the more they're allowed to stay there, the more they do. i was on the front lines and inch by inch by perilous inch you have to take back the bombs that have been laid. and it's such a hard life the cost is so high that we're going to see this take a long, long time. and one more point about the 25-year plan. while we wait for something to happen about the towns they control, they are brainwashing a whole generation of children. i spoke to an isis defector for the book who ezsays it's their
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policy to take children as young as 10 or 12 and ideologically convert them. it's a long-term plan. >> they put out a video yesterday that showed a kid allegedly executing someone. you say you've been inside isis. what do the people that you were able to talk to say is the appeal? why are teenagers coming from europe and all over the world to join us? >> people join isis for a variety of reasons. the syrians because of the oppressive regime in damascus. the iraqis because of the sectarian divisions that were there. the westerners who come over have to be categorized in two groups. you have the foreigners who come to tunisia and algeria, and there they have nothing else and they're already religiously inclined, if you will. but the westerners are a really interesting case. and it's been very hard to pinpoint one background that they come from. you know they might be sort of a slightly older or younger. they might be from a middle class background or an impoverished background. but, i do think there is a point of they're trying to become part of a bigger thing. and i do believe that they're
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looking for something else. and one of the defectors i spoke to said they go out and they're known as the most blood-thirsty ones. a lot of the westerners who go out to fight don't understand the koran. soy stand by the fact that it's an adventure and i'm looking for something worse. >> al hundred, that adventure getting more dangerous for a lot of members of isis who are actually seeing at least in iraq, their movement on the run. >> yeah i wanted to ask benjamin when we talks about the 25-year threat if the iranians can't counter, for the reasons that he just enumerated we're not going to in all likelihood, have american boots on the ground and that might be counterproductive. so what is the best hope to stem this terrorist tide benjamin? >> so benjamin al asked, what's the best hope over the next 25 years to stem this terrorist tide? >> well, i do think we have to deal with conventional allies in the region. i think that jordan for example, i mean, is israel
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saudi arabia although it's a problem and there's money cominge ing there, we have to look from them. already al there are allies in the region, the kurds. they've come out and say, we're willing to pay for the bombs, but they won't be given to them. when i'm out with the kurds, they're using antiquated ak-47s. we have to be ramping that up and addressing the ideological problems. be looking inside islam and try to force those who are not so radicalized to reach out and yes, that's a hard way to do, but it has to be in two ways. >> the book is "inside isis." benjamin hall, thank you so much. still ahead, democratic senator tim kaine and house majority whip steny hoyer both join the conversation. we'll be right back.
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the system we used was set up for president clinton's office and it had numerous safeguards. it was on property guarded by the secret service and there were no security breaches. >> hillary clinton breaks her silence on her use of private e-mail at the state department. why critics say there are now even more questions than answers. plus, criticism mounts to the gop's letter to iran about a nuclear deal. what the republicans who didn't sign the letter are now saying.
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you got this. as i understand it hillary clinton was using her private e-mail address. predictably, the republicans are angry about her using her private e-mail address. they were screaming and yelling and hollering today, and then they went back to writing their open letter to iran. i think we have the actual letter that the senators are writing to -- there it is. it's going, can we get in -- as tight as you can there on the final paragraph. let me see what you're talking
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about. a couple of guys said it there -- you must send this to five other rogue states in the next 24 hours or you'll have bad luck for a year. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." we can't stop talking here. mark halperin and bill kristol, al hunt still with us and mike barnicle joins us as well. where's mike? >> somewhere. >> disclosed location. >> we're going to get a to a couple of other stories and we'll continue this conversation. i just want to update -- >> you're upset? >> no i think it's worth noting, in the oklahoma university story, they had two students that have been expelled. they have this dorm mother who has been seen on video, using racist language that was in a rap song that she was singing. and clearly, the most horrifying site sight on this video is these boys and some women chanting these racist slogans. having said that there's this rapper, wacka flacka flame who
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has performed for these kids in the past on the campus. and he canceled his show at the university of oklahoma after this video surfaced saying that in the wake of the video, he's disgusted and disappointed. and i'm just -- i am -- >> and you saw him on another network last night -- >> i saw him on another network -- >> i'm shocked and stunned and deeply saddened for using that word. >> and they said, thank you very much, good luck to you. and he was gone. and i look at his lyrics and i'm thinking why wouldn't you ask this guy why would go on that campus and if you look at every single song i guess you call these, that he's written, it's a bunch of garbage. >> it's n-this n-that it's kill this it's kill that. >> it's wrong. and he shouldn't be disgusted with them he should be disgusted with himself. that's all i have to say. >> you should book him and refer to him as mr. flame. >> wacka flacka flame, thank you very much. >> popular culture becomes a
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cesspool, and people are surprised that some drunk 19-year-old kids repeat what they've been hearing -- >> and he should be disgusted when he sings that or raps it. >> and anybody who watches "empire" knows that 70% of the audience is white. the kids that are buying hip hop or gangster rap as mark morial wanted us to call it it's a white audience and they hear this over and over again. so do they hear this at home? well chances are good no they heard a lot of this from guys like this who are now acting shocked. >> willie wants to get in because he's the expert on this panel. >> i agree and as i said in the last hour i would love to never hear that word again in any song white, black, or otherwise. but there is a distinction between a bunch of white kids chanting about hanging someone from a tree and this is a term you use in hip hop that african-american guys in certain contexts call each other. i don't like it but you hear it
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in songs. jay-z used to say it all the time. the most famous rappers in the world say it. i'm not defending it. but there is a distinction between white guys on a bus saying they're going to hang somebody, and wacka flacka says it. >> he talks about murdering people shooting people f-bombing. >> not exactly -- >> n-word. >> very nice treatment of women, i'm sure. >> abusing women. >> tipper gore tried to raised this issue and was widely ridiculed when she was the wife of the vice president. and i remember defending her. and if you were in at all a cool place like this you were just -- you could not defend -- >> i'm just saying you're right, willie. it's absolutely not the same. >> another story that i definitely want to get to because i do think, of course the hillary clinton e-mails raise a lot of questions. but this is one of the worst things the republicans have done in this entire administration's time in office. i'm sorry. >> you said that about -- >> the worst thing.
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>> this is it. >> you're foaming -- >> i'm totally a defender of this letter. >> so let's get to it. how about we're going to read it. 47 republican senators continue to face criticism this morning for sending a letter to iran warning a possible nuclear deal would not hold up under the next president. >> and before we get to hillary clinton talking about it i will just say, freshman senator tom cotton wants to help out iran or doesn't understand politics. >> that's deeply offensive. can we read the story and let people hear what's talking about and we'll talk about it. >> if you would like to do that, fine. hillary clinton strongly denounced the lawmakers before breaking her silence about the e-mail controversy. here's her take. >> the recent letter from republican senators was out of step with the best traditions of american leadership and one has to ask what was the purpose o of this letter? there appear to be two logical
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answers. either these senators were trying to be helpful to the iranians or harmful to the commander in chief, in the midst of high-stakes, international diplomacy. >> the republican senators who did not sign the letter are also speaking out. senator susan collins of maine said she doubted the effort would actually impact foreign policy, and senator jeff flake of arizona says he believes the letter was inappropriate. as i was trying to say, i think tom cotton and some of the others who came up with this cop september don't understand politics or foreign policy. they haven't been around washington long enough certainly. but they either wanted to embolden iran or at least help them or they just were delivering a self-inflicted wound to themselves with the collateral damage being the president and iran possibly. but it was idiotic. really stupid totally out of step, and as damaging as it gets. congratulations. >> you've given no evidence of any damage at all. they correctly told the
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iranians -- >> well thank god. >> -- that the republican party, there were senators in members of the senate and i think this has been echoed about the presidential campaigns, would not consider themselves bound by a deal that was not submitted one way or another to congress. that is a true statement. that is a useful statement to make. >> that's wonderful, sending them to tehran. you think that's appropriate, bill kristol? you going to look me in the eye and say that's a good move? >> yes, because the president of the united states -- you know why it's appropriate? because the foreign minister of iran who has been on this show put out a statement saying these republicans are crazy. one president obama signs a deal, it is binding by international law. and it's very important that republicans say publicly internationally, and domestically, no i'm sorry, if obama signs a deal that doesn't go to congress it is not going to bind us. >> mark halperin? >> you can argue, as some do that this is appropriate, but as a matter of fact -- >> it's just not. >> -- it was stupid. >> why? >> they have eliminated any chance now of working with democrats on sanctions. they're never going to get a
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stronger sanctions bill now. even if the deal fails, because democrats are rallying around their president and their commander in chief. >> and because they don't like a letter they're going to sacrifice the national interest if there's a bad deal? is that how you think democratic senators think? there are ten co-sponsors of the corcoran -- >> there were. >> and you think democrats will drop off because a letter was sent saying congress has a right to review this treaty? >> yeah because you know what? this is a matter of challenging the commander in chief that a lot of democrats -- >> i love how suddenly a lot of liberals and democrats start thinking about the president as the commander in chief. the president is making an agreement with a foreign country. >> i thought that's what he was? >> but only when -- only when we're not supposed to even criticize him or suggest that maybe congress should have a role in foreign policy. suddenly, it's, oh, my god, they're criticizing the commander in chief. >> no they're actually tampering with negotiations that are really really delicate. >> they're telling the truth about the negotiations. >> really? let's tell the world that we
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don't have our -- >> do you think we're supposed to be quiet while the deal's being goerktnegotiated? >> congress should have nothing to say while the deal is being negotiated and once the deal is negotiated, the obama administration is going to say hey, the deal's goerktnegotiated. >> there's a difference between being quiet and writing a letter -- >> oh, a letter to the iranians! that's so shocking. >> if tip o'neill had written a letter like this to the russian -- >> there were letters written to the soviet union by senators of both parties and i did not criticize them. >> hey, guys hold on one second. bill let me get al hunt in. i think all of us who are old enough to remember democratic senators and house members who went on to become senators writing letters to nicaraguan communists, apologizing for ronald reagan. so i didn't see the mainstream media freaking out when that happened like they're freaking out now. >> not during negotiations. >> no during a war basically for central america. let's bring in al hunt.
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al, it's your turn to throw something at bill kristol. go ahead. >> well i love bill talking about this like it was a little bread and butter note thanking them for something -- >> it was a post-it. >> i mean everybody knew the position of those senate republicans bill. this wasn't news to the iranians. and i think tom cotton's not ready for prime-time but why those senior republicans joined that letter was stupid. as jeffrey goldberg has said what it really does is if this thing breaks down it gives the iranians a full excuse to say, see, it was the americans that did it and that hurts any, any chance to continue multilateral sanctions. it was just dumb. >> that's ridiculous. so the critique of the letter is either everyone knew this already, so it was pointless, or this has been unbelievably damaging, because it exposed something in the middle of the negotiations which is -- >> you know what? they could be damaging but luckily, tom cotton's not big enough to be damaging. he's just a freshman senator. >> just a fresh manhattanman senator.
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>> i love this now notion. freshman senator is not allowed to have an opinion on this. >> he absolutely allowed to have an opinion on this. and i think you make that point well. and i think the way washington is built is there are many platforms for this discussion in the halls of congress on the pages of the newspapers out in the open forum, on this show. come on bill. >> and this was an open letter. this was an open letter. democratic senators privately met with ortega and nicaragua and with others. nancy pelosi went to see bashar al assad in 2007. i think that was questionable but i didn't criticize her patriotism or call her a traitor the way the left is calling 47 republican senators who sent an open -- >> whew do you think they're upset about it? >> i don't know. i think they're very defensive. they hate any attention -- >> do you have any deference to the president of the united states and the vice president of the united states and the reaction they're having to it? >> no. no. because here's why. they hate having a public debate about the iran deal. prime minister netanyahu said he's going to give a speech. oh my god, he's going to give a
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speech! why were they so upset about it? because he laid out in 25 minutes the problems with this iran deal. why are they upset about this letter? it's called more attention to this bad deal they're negotiating. they hate any debate over the deal. trey gowdy will get the hillary clinton letters. he's a loose cannon. really? trey gowdy released the story about the e-mails that no one knew about the server. i give a lot of credit to tom cotton and trey gowdy. all of them totally denounced by the washington establishment. all of them forced important debates. >> your new mt. rushmore. let me ask you why do you think it came to this? why did john boehner have to invite benjamin netanyahu? why aren't these happening back-channel? >> you'll blame that on the president, i'm sure? >> i'm not blaming anyone and anything. i think benjamin netanyahu is entitled to criticize the speech. 47 republicans are entitled to put o letter criticizing.
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>> i'm not saying you are. i'm saying, why don't they happen privately? >> because they want to embarrass the president and undermine the process. you can't do that unless you, you know do something completely inappropriate, unprecedented, and completely low-brow. and really chose a lack of sense -- >> she has been on a roll since the netanyahu speech. >> that guy doesn't know what he's doing. sorry. good luck to you. >> i would say communist leaders -- >> you know what's impressive -- >> stem the flow of communism in central america is probably a lot worse than writing an open letter to the iranians. >> listen there are far worse things, but are you going to tell me -- you're going to tell me that that was a good idea? >> no, you just said it was the worst thing ever since the bubonic plague. and i was saying there are several things that have happened since black death that actually have been as bad as this. for instance, i think we have the most powerful democrat in
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washington, d.c. the democratic leader of the senate calling the president of the united states the commander in chief, a liar and a fool when he's in russia negotiating with vladimir putin. i think that's kind of bad too. just saying. >> i think this is akin to an obscene gesture. >> no way. >> hillary clinton's attempt, does anyone want to argue, to blunt criticism over the e-mail controversy has now led to even more questions. as for the main concern as to why she only used a personal e-mail, she said that was simply because that was the easiest option available. >> when i got to work as secretary of state, i opted for convenience to use my personal e-mail account, which was allowed by the state department because i thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal e-mails instead of two. looking back it would have been better if i had simply used a
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second e-mail account and carried a second phone, but at the time this didn't seem like an issue. looking back it would have been better for me to use two separate phones and two e-mail accounts. i thought using one device would be simpler and obviously it hasn't worked out that way. >> less than three weeks ago, clinton admitted at a conference in silicon valley that just like when she was in the senate she now owns more than one phone. >> iphone or android? >> iphone. okay, in full disclosure -- >> blackberry. >> and a blackberry. i don't throw anything away. i'm like two steps short of a hoarder. so i have a, you know, an ipad, a mini ipad, an iphone and a blackberry. >> but she does throw away of course e-mails from her daughter's wedding. and the things that matter most to her. i'm just curious, i want to ask
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around the table, i'm just really new to this whole i.t. thing, willie. i'm sort of a luddite. i really don't understand. people talk about these newfangled devices like iphones -- >> you've got a typewriter right under the desk. >> i -- that's how i file my columns. so when i get into this new world, is it going to take me more time for convenience's sake to have two phones? or to get two accounts on the same phone? or to set up a private, independent server in my basement and making sure that all the national security prerequisites are met and i bring in all the tech experts to make sure that in a time of crisis or war, there will be repetition to make sure that there's no way that it will go down when the president of the united states -- >> that doesn't sound very convenient, what you're describing. >> i could go on and on and on. i'm just curious, what's more convenient. carrying around two phones or
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setting up a private server. >> that was not a leading question and i'm grateful for that. >> i'm asking it straight down the middle. i am a simple cave man lawyer. i do not understand the ways of your -- >> you're referring to her explanation that she only had one because it was more convenient than having to carry around two devices. >> which i'll send -- >> even if you believe everything that she said. even if you believe everything she said improper to set up her own something without security and she wasn't clear how she did security. totally cavalier attitude about freedom of information act requests and congressional subpoenas and a failure to turn over the documents until forced to by the congressional committee. even if you believe everything she said those things were -- and using private e-mail even though jay carney and the white house said don't use private e-mail for government -- >> all those things. >> also it was very important, and when you talk about jay carney saying don't do it hillary clinton sent out her own memo to the state department saying do not use private e-mail. >> so she let her secretary of state, as president of the united states have a private
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e-mail, server -- >> she didn't even let people in the state department use private e-mail. >> and there were a dozen other people, more than that in the obama cabinet, did it occur to anyone to do this? no, they showed up at work met with the people who run the orpgss, the i.t. people, the lawyers, and said secretary sebelius or secretary kerry, here's how it works. you have a government account, a private account for your stuff. there may be some overlap. make sure to forward stuff. that's not what she did. what she did is so beyond the bounds of normal behavior, it's shocking. but it's convenient if you don't want other people to have access to your e-mails, including, let's not forget other people in the state department and in the white house. if you're on a government e-mail server and there's a request, the office of legal counsel or state says we've got to look at your e-mail account. suddenly, any request for anything, she's immune not just from the press, but she's sort of protected herself from others in the obama administration. >> exactly. and mike barnicle that's a
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frustration, why she's actually getting hammered on from everybody from the a.p. to gawker who have had requests that have gone unanswered. >> which leads to a couple of questions which haven't been addressed this morning. does she really want to do this for two more years? do we want to put up with this for two more years? the polarization and the constantly hostility between hillary clinton and the media that covers. do we really want to endure this for 24 months? >> al hunt what's the answer to that? >> i think it's a good question. because the bigger problem here is that it does harken back to the past. and that's not what people want. that nbc/"wall street journal" poll that was out this week thinks that over half the public thinks that hillary clinton is more about the past than a vision for the future. that's not a good prescription to run for president in 2016. the other thing it shows, if she does run, is how rusty they are right now. they were very slow to respond to this. i think she's made a mistake. if she's going to get in and not
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getting in now. i said earlier, i don't think this is a huge substantiative deal. i don't, but i think it may be a telling issue. >> it may be a telling issue. what was telling yesterday was, was somebody who unfortunately had to deal on government reform and oversight in congress for seven years, with the clintons. they would come, and they would -- it would be like yesterday's press conference where they would say things that you just knew were not true. you just knew they were not true. we could talk about craig livingstone, we could talking about -- i could talk about 100 different hearings where you just sat there going, okay they know they're lying to us and we know they're lying to us and cantcan the media knows they're lying too and you just sat there and smile and think, they're going to get away with this. that's what the great tragedy of monica lewinsky was, that they got something that small -- that
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the media finally said oh, we like this one. so they went after that when they ignored bill clinton transferring sensitive missile technology to the chinese, because the top contributor to the democratic national committee worked in the business that created that technology. and the pentagon said you can't do it, the state department said you can't do it. he went cabinet shopping until you got the ron brown of commerce. we could talk about the fund-raising of the white house, we could talk about the tease. but here's the difference between the 1990s and 2015. when the clintons did the clinton thing in the 1990s, you would sit there and go the truth's going to come out at some point. maybe a year maybe two years, maybe five years, we'll figure out what the truth is. but guess what in 2015 guess when it came out five minutes later on twitter. >> thanks to trey gowdy --
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>> what i'm saying this is a new world where you say something in a press conference it's going to be revealed five minutes later. and they can't survive in that environment, playing from that playbook. they're going to have to get a new playbook and be transparent. >> that playbook has to be a message, has to be a story, it has to be a campaign, it has to be a reason you want the first woman president of the united states. at some point, the swirling has to stop. and if the swirling continues, then at some point, it's you. >> warren for president. elizabeth warren will be the nominee. >> we connect. all right, still ahead, how conservatives can win over millennials. a new manifesto says there's a big political opening on the right, and it may just reshape the political landscape as we know it. and up next we'll continue the conversation with nbc's andrea mitchell who asked a key question of hillary clinton at yesterday's news conference and
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with respect to the foundation, i am very proud of the work the foundation does. i'm very proud of the hundreds of thousands of people who support the work of the foundation. and the results that have been achieved for people here at home and around the world. and i think that we are very clear about where we stand, certainly where i stand, on all of these issues. there can't be any mistake about my passion concerning women's rights here at home and around the world. >> well except maybe, i can't see some of those e-mails. that was hillary clinton responding to a question from our own andrea mitchell yesterday and andrea joins us now along with veteran chief of buzz feed, ben smith, who also attended the clinton news conference. so she was answering your question there. and what did you make of -- >> well, the other question i had asked was, why are you the
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person who decide what gets deleted and what doesn't? because this is the first time that we had heard from her that she had deleted 30,000 e-mails. >> did that surprise you? >> it did. but i have to say, as mark halperin was pointing out, there is in the federal manual that you, as a federal employee make the decision of what's work-related -- >> but that's if you're using the server. >> well her explanation for that is that anything that was sent to a government colleague, she then forwarded on for archival purposes. that's her explanation. that's what she said. >> is that how it was supposed to be done? >> that's not the way it is. >> joining us from capitol hill a member of the armed services -- >> those leading questions! that's more matlock. >> i don't want your head to explode next to me. >> thank you your honor. >> no further questions. >> democratic senator tim kaine of virginia. >> hey, tim. we've got a lot to cover here. i really -- just stay with me for one second.
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i want to follow up really quickly with andrea. andrea, there is a question about saudi arabia taking money from saudi arabia a country that has a deplorable record when it comes to women's rights. that question was asked, and what was her response there? >> that she will stand on the -- you know her record for women's rights, certainly a very laudable record. she is a hero to the women's movement, as she was yesterday in that u.n. leadership conference. but she has not explained, none of the clintons have explained the disparity thebetween the money they take for these foundations. bill clinton was asked about it in miami and said you know, we do good things -- what he said is that the disclosure is what's important. the public can decide because we disclose all of our contributors. >> and i think it's not totally clear in those e-mails will social correspondence with foreign leaders when you're secretary of state, is that work or is that personal? >> other favors? >> does that get deleted or not. >> and the favors. what quid pro quos is the
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foundation personal? >> but now you're making up stuff? >> is the foundation public? >> none of us know the answers to these questions. if she decides if somebody sends her something, hey, we want to give you $200,000 the clinton foundation, $200,000 -- and oh, by the way could the state department -- could you come visit us next year? she might delete that and say, that's personal. but we don't know. >> that is the thing about the deletions. they made a decision they'll never know. and what was odd in the press conference they treated it as though retaining the e-mails might have been a choice and they chose not to retain them. e-mails stay unless you decide to delete them. >> tim kaine, can you help explain the deleted e-mails and how we're supposed to let that go? >> i didn't watch the press conference yesterday, because we had a foreign relations committee meeting. you might have heard, we're doing some stuff on iran and isil up here. but i've read the t cans saccounts of it and, look everybody has
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personal e-mails and personal e-mails aren't covered. and yes, folks make the decision about what's personal and what's business. she said, i'm releasing all official e-mails and the state department is doing that review and they'll be out and that's what should be done and that's what will be done. >> so i was wondering, if you were president of the united states, would you have your secretary of state operate on e-mail the way hillary clinton did and would that be appropriate -- >> i think that's a fair question, mika. and i think the secretary said yes, hey, looking back on it i might have done it differently. i wanted to just have one source of e-mails, not multiple devices, et cetera, and i can understand that for convenience purposes. >> but we know this isn't her first rodeo. i'm just asking you as president, did you allow things to or not. >> and especially if you had regulations saying that in 2009, that you always had to back up everything and realtime on the servers. >> and the question is i think that she is saying that she has backed up everything by always sending to a gov account any official business e-mail even
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e-mails that were through the personal server. but, look she said yesterday, looking back on it, i might have done it different. and i think going forward, folks will take this to heart. >> i was going to say, i think she's saying that the ones that happen to have been sent to .gov accounts were backed up. you worked hard for senator obama in 2008 and that was a campaign that was largely run against hillary clinton on a questions of trust and that was a campaign you were part of it. and i wonder if you think that raises those issues again or if she's answered questions that people like you had in '08? >> well my issue for supporting president obama didn't have anything to do with a trust issue with at that point, senator clinton. they were both superbly qualified candidates. we had a very strong nominating process and i had a close personal relationship with senator obama at the time which i did not with senator clinton. it wasn't a trust issue at all that caused me to use senator
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obama to support in '08. and as you know i've come out as of last may, i think, to urge secretary clinton to run for president, because i think her track record and background makes her spew personally qualified to do the job that americans would demand of her. >> mike barnicle is here and he's got a question for you. >> senator kaine, as i'm sure you know 47 republican senators have made an effort to establish a pen pal relationship with the ayatollah in tehran. but it's been focused here the coverage of it has been focused here domestically politically, the impact on the senate and the country. but there are five other countries involved in these negotiations. russia, china, the united kingdom, france. what impact does it have on those countries, our allies, this letter and what impact does it have on iran's increasingly appetite military appetite, within iraq do you think? >> well, mike that's a great question. here's the deal. right now, we're in the final
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phase of these negotiations, and no one should be trying to tank or screw around with these negotiations. if there is an ultimate deal the president is going to put that on the table in congress senator corker and i and 12 of our colleagues, bipartisan have proposed a deliberate and bipartisan review of any deal should there be a deal and i think that bill will enable us to look at this in a careful way. but your question is about this. what if there's no deal? if there's no deal, this letter just gives iran the perfect excuse. we were trying to negotiate in good faith and then a whole bunch of the senate tried to tank negotiations. and compliance with the sanctions that have hurt iranian economy, while the u.s. enacted the sanctions, the sanctions bite, because other nations voluntarily comply with them. if they think the u.s. has messed up the negotiation through something like this they may start backing away and not following the sanctions, buying oil from iran and saying
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look, we tried to get a diplomatic deal but the u.s. didn't want a negotiated outcome. the u.s. should always be for diplomacy. we should exhaust diplomatic efforts and that's why the letter was such a poor strategy. and that's why the corker approach is the right way. wait until there's a deal and then we can weigh in and say what we think about it. >> andrea mitchell? >> i want to ask you as a former democratic national chairman if you think that democrats are going to worry, those who have supported hillary clinton, those who assume that she would be the nominee, worry that more stuff will come out, that this will be a pattern, that she's not ready for the rough and tumble of the campaign. >> democrats all know there's a million issues that come up during the campaign whether it's hillary clinton or somebody else. that's the way modern senatorial or presidential campaigning is these days. but by all accounts i didn't watch the press conference yesterday, but by all accounts i think folks said she did a solid job. she's addressed this question, will people have more questions? sure, they will.
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but from what i hear yesterday, she did what she needed to do. >> senator kaine, it's willie geist. you have a big hearing today. you'll hear from john kerry, ash carter, and general dempsey about the president's request to use force against isis. what are your primary concerns about that request going into the hearing today? >> willie i think there are about three or four issues that committee members will grapple with. first, what is the strategy in syria? much more complicated than iraq. second, is the three-year sunset is that right? third, should this authorization touch on the 2001 authorization following 9/11 or should that be done separately? but the biggest concern will be the role of grown troops. and really ground troops are less about the troops themselves and more about the mission. i think many of us believe what king abdullah of jordan has recently told us whatamerica, this isn't your fight. this is our fight. and if we're willing to go all in against our own region's extreme i feel we want your
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help. but if you turn it into america against isil suddenly you change this and you may create a recruiting bonanza. >> senator tim kaine, thank you very much. andrea, we'll see you at noon on "andrea mitchell reports". >> thank you. >> ben smith, stay with us if you can. coming up, don't look now, but conservatives and millennials may have a lot more in common than it might seem. >> you look shocked. like you just eight a lemon. >> we'll find out. maybe there's a good explanation for this.
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writer for the "national review," without his scarf. >> well, i'm wearing one, so we're good. do you want to wear it? >> i don't know that that would suit me. >> it may not. >> he's the author of the new book, "the conservetarian manifesto: libertarians and fights for the right's future." there is a fight going on between conservatives and libertarians. how's that playing out in the republican party? >> these are the people who are in the middle. these are the people who say they are libertarian when around conservatives and conservatives when around libertarians and are trying to find a word for it. conservetarian is the word they tend to pick up. >> this would be a group of people who believe that you keep the federal government out of your pocketbook keep the
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federal government out of your bedroom. >> yeah, basically, the conservetarian attitude is they don't like libertarians on defense, they don't like libertarians on foreign policy and they're not sure about libertarians on abortion. abortion is the one so-called social issue is still an outlier. but on drugs, on gay marriage and on federalism they're disappointed with conservatism and they're also irritated with the republican party that hasn't always lived up to -- >> and you're suggesting they take more of a dunkirk type of approach than an alamo approach. >> sure. >> be pragmatic. >> i think it depends on the issue. it's too easy to say, for example, that social issues are trending away from republicans, because the issues involved are all very different. you look at the drug war. the drug war is a matter of where the government should play a certain role in the market. should it stop you growing and eating and possessing substances. gay marriages, which have civil society's institutions the state will recognize. abortion's a question of life and death. when does life start, what role
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should we play in protecting it? so you know it depends on the issue you're discussing, but generally speaking with, the conservetarian issue is less -- >> why do you think -- i think this is one of the great surprises is the way abortion decoupled from marriage. they always kind of tracked together and support for marriage equality just kind of spikes and really i think, for people of our generation abortion is still incredibly divisive. >> sure. >> why is that? beyond -- obviously, they're different issues but that can be said of any two issues. >> the first is, you can't live and let live if believe that an unborn child is alive. if you take that view it's very difficult to say, well i don't mind what happens to it, get the government out. you would no be able to say that, well this child is 5 years old, should we kill it in the name of population control, where has with gay marriage you genuinely can move on it. people who are desperately against gay marriage now will be able to prioritize other questions. the second thing is technology. if you look at people's attitudes towards abortion especially young people over the
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last 20 years, they've become more pro-life. i think 3-d ultrasounds, i think the ability of unborn children to survive earlier, if they are born makes a big difference. >> and i say this as somebody who had a premie and you go through the process of you seeing is one ultrasound after another ultrasound after another ultrasound and it's 3-d imaging. and i got through the middle of that process and i said wow, younger people are going to become more pro-life because they're going to see very early on 3-d imagery -- >> and technology -- >> you know, my son, who's now 6 years old, i saw the slope of his nose and i still recognize when i look at it when he was, what maybe -- i don't know 15 weeks, 18 weeks. so the technology also the viability being earlier. >> viability. >> really changes that. whereas gay marriage on the other side more and more contact with gay couples, you suddenly are like, wait a second this is not going to destroy my marriage. i can do that on my own. and i have. >> charles is there a
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politician or a leader out there right now who represents this point of view or are they still looking for that person? >> i'll caveat my answer by saying, really the book is a defense of federalism and civil society. that's the way i think we can bridge the two factions on the right. but also maybe within a country that's increasingly divided. so looking for a leader is difficult, because you don't want to top-down implementation of what is a bottom-up approach. >> i guess my question is who would they vote for? >> right. but i think on paper, rand paul is probably the closest, although he has a number of problems himself. >> what about scott walker jeb bush, where do they fit? jeb too establishment for conservetarians? >> i think jeb is going to cause problems for those who call themselves conservetarian. if you look at an issue like common core, that would be going in the wrong direction. it's not a federal program, per se, but the way the obama administration has treated it with incentives and funding, has turned it into a de facto federal program. so not jeb. >> the book is "the
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conservetarian manifesto." charles c.w. cook thank you very much. >> love having you on. up next the number two democrat in the house, congressman steny hoyer joins the table. keep it right here on "morning joe." at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping. it's one of the most amazing
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or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work it's 47 past the hour. joining us now, house democratic whip steny hoyer. there might be a few people on this set who think i was a little strident on the issue of tom cotten and the letter that the republicans sent to tehran. >> not me. >> what's your take? >> i apologize. >> do you think it was a tiny bit destructive, undermining and stupid? >> i shared your view. >> thank you. >> i think it was ill advised. it was sophomoric in many ways. >> sophomoric, yes. >> and i think it gave comfort to our enemies and pause to our
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allies. you know, lincoln said a house divided against itself cannot stand. and you've got the president of the united states who is our chief negotiator under the constitution, talking and trying to get to a place that i think all of us want to get to. that is a nonnuclear armed iran. we're in the last throws of those negotiations and 47 senators interject themselves into this, in a totally inappropriate, unprecedented way. i think it was very unfortunate. >> and what do you think the motivation could have been to do that? because there are many other ways to maker your point. that's what washington's about. the debate and often two sides don't agree on how to deal with a problem. >> unfortunately, even in terms of national security we're seeing partisanship injected way beyond what it ought to be. we saw this letter from the 47 senators. we see 167 members of the house last week vote against keeping the department of homeland
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security open, over the objection of their leaders. >> so mika keeps saying it's unprecedented. >> do you think it's unprecedented? >> i can't think of specific example. zpr >> can i give you one? >> sure. do you remember the commandant letter written in 1984. were you in congress 1984. >> i was. i was not on that letter. >> oh, good so you remember the letter. so they wrote the communist leader of nicaragua and thanked him for all the good work he was doing down there and this letter clearly violates the constitutional separation of power. it's at best unwise and at worst, illegal. >> and if there is a precedent, it's a bad precedent. >> but it did happen. you remember it. and we remember them writing noriega. it was stupid when democrats did it and can be stupid when republicans did it. >> it's a stupid policy in a democracy to try to negotiate directly with an enemy in
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opposition to the president of the united states, republican or democrat. >> whether it's iran or communist nicaragua. >> we can have a vigorous and appropriately should have a vigorous can have a vigorous debate here in congress here at home whether we're following good or bad policy but we don't write to the other side. clearly i think iran is correctly viewed as an enemy, and i they was very very unfortunate, and i think senator cotton and the 46 members who signed that letter mr. corker rightfully did not sign the letter. a number of other republicans did not. >> the letter aside, get to the issue it sought to address. iran getting a nuclear weapon. what would a good deal look like to you? obviously, republicans, israel is not, in this cause in the ten-year nuclear material? >> i've been pretty hard line on the fact that our policy is prevention. prevention means they don't get a nuclear weapon. they don't have the capability to construct a nuclear weapon
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and i agree with tony blinken, any deal with reach to accomplish that objective must be accompanied by the most intrusive verification process, perhaps that has ever been installed in any country and absent that we can't trust the iranians to follow an agreement. >> and you probably know more about the deal the details of it, than we do right here. are you comfortable? does it go far enough? what's talked about right now? >> i don't think i'm comfortable enough to know exactly what the deal is. i do know that i've been urging the administration to follow its original premise, no nuclear armed capability by the iranians. >> period. >> and i think that that view is shared by everybody in the middle east, other than iran. so this is and it's shared by the united nations. so this is a view that is expressed by the world, and the p-5 plus 6 ought to accomplish that objective. if there can't, there ought not be a deal. >> the historians who signed
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that letter jim wright actually. the democratic majority leader, signed the letter. and the communist leader of nicaragua assured it was written in a spirit of hopefulness and goodwill and regret negotiations between nicaragua and washington were better and stress they would oppose all further money for rebel campaigns against -- that doesn't make this right i. didn't say it did. you've been saying it's unprecedented for the past week. i think this is much worse. >> i think this is really as bad as it gets to this administration from the republican party. >> should they have done this? should somebody have done before? the answer is, i don't think it should have been done a critical time in negotiations and we hope we get where we hope to get -- >> should have paid more attention to bob corker trying to do something on this own, actually has bipartisan support. i'd love to have this debated in
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the senate and have a vote in the senate. >> i think senator corker brings some judgment and some common sense. >> just like you. >> to this discussion. >> just like you -- >> congressman steny hoyer. thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> good to see you as always. >> always good to be here. >> see you in washington. >> we'll be there next week. the man leading the benghazi discussion, congress main gowdy joins us, ahead. oh yea, that's coming down let's get some rocks, man. health can change in a minute. so cvs health is changing healthcare. making it more accessible and affordable with walk-in medical care, no appointments needed and most insurance accepted. minuteclinic. another innovation from cvs health. because health is everything.
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okay. here we go. it's the top of the hour. welcome to "morning joe." wep have the managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin former governor ed rendell and in washington calmness for bloomberg view al hunt, editorial director of national journal ron fournier and syndicated columnist bob franken. >> boy, we have a lot to get to and have to start, of course with the "new york post." >> pretty good. >> deleter of the free world. "the washington post" also has hillary on front page talking about the press conference yesterday. the "new york times" also has her on the front page. i think i saw the -- >> every single paper -- >> every single one. >> "wall street journal." has her on the front page. >> coverage.
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>> the "usa today" has her on the front page. >> she's getting her name out there. >> and of course the "new york daily news." interesting. >> hillary clinton is facing questions this morning, even more questions. >> fair to say. >> after breaking her silence about her use of a private e-mail account while serving as secretary of state. the united nations served us the backdrop on tuesday for clinton's attempt to end the controversy ahead of a likely bid for the white house in 2016. as for the main question why she only used personal e-mail she said it was simply because that was the easiest option available. >> when i got to work as secretary of state i opted for convenience to use my personal e-mail account, which was allowed by the state department because i thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal e-mails instead of two. looking back it would have been better if i had simply used a
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second e-mail account, and carried a second phone but at the time this didn't seem like an issue. looking back it would have been better for me to use two separate phones and two e-mail accounts. i thought using one device would be simpler and obviously it hasn't worked out that way. >> but less than three weeks ago clinton admitted a a conference in silicon valley she currently has more than one phone. >> iphone or android? >> iphone. >> okay in full disclosure -- >> blackberry. >> and blackberry. i don't throw anything away. i'm like two steps short of a hoarder, so i have a, a, you know, an ipad a mini ipad an iphone and a blackberry. >> it is just -- so ridiculous. >> and any e-mail she considered personal has been deleted.
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>> because we all know the first e-mails you go delete are e-mails about your children's wedding. i go through -- oh my god. we don't want anyone record of that around. oh wait. i'm sorry. those are the ones you keep there and you -- >> her office says it's nearly 32,000 e-mails, more than half of all the e-mails in the account. take a look. >> oh geez. >> we went through a thorough process to identify all of my work-related e-mails, and delivered them to the state department. at the end, i chose not to keep my private, personal e-mails. e-mails about planning chelsea's wedding or my mother's funeral arrangements condolence notes to friends as well as yoga routines, family vacations, the other things you typically find in "in" boxes. no one wants their personal e-mails made public and i think most people understand that and
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tlap privacy. >> actually mika do you buy that? >> tech experts also question clinton's insistent that her private e-mail server was -- >> i got to tell you, if i had a server that i had put in in against guidelines and regulations, i'd have no problem people going through my personal e-mails. e-mails about my kids. e-mails about my yoga classes, about all of these things. you wouldn't have any problem doing that. in fact, you want to clear it up. there's personal stuff in here. look at it and take out what actually has to do with state department business. >> yeah. clinton -- >> it's pretty obvious. >> clinton says her server was set up for her husband and is resisting calls to turn over the server. >> we have more than met the request from the state department. the server contains personal communications from my husband and me and i believe i have met all of my responsibilities, and
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the server will remain private and i think that the state department will be able over time to release all of the records that were provided. >> yeah. you know i can understand, actually, if you have -- you know, in the law, mika this is very simple. you have sort of a spousal -- there's a spousal confidentiality. so if you go i killed the butler with poison in the in mr. green's room or whatever in "clue," that statement is privileged, because it's between two spouses. who in the world wouldn't understand that these clintons who were part they fly all over the world, they got to talk to each other via e-mail. right? so we understand that. the american people understand that. >> right, right. >> so what's wrong with that?
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>> well -- there's that problem. >> what problem? >> that they don't e-mail. >> no but she just said that that's why she didn't turn it over, because they e-mail. >> well -- >> because they -- listen if we're going to get so intrusive into their relationship, that we don't allow them to carry on a loving, kind relationship over e-mail because they travel so long, i'm sorry. that is a step too far. >> so -- a spokesman for bill clinton -- says that the former president has only sent two e-mails ever and both -- >> well but a i'm sure they were loving e-mails to her, like when she was at the state department, right? >> no. during his presidency. i don't think that was a good time. >> one to john glenn. 50% of all his e-mails to john glenn. >> godspeed. john glenn. i'm floored, willie. i wos going with this whole spousal thing. >> you're not going to defend this?
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willie try. come on. >> to me what remains after the press conference why did hillary clinton and her attorneys have the discretion over what the state department got to see? what is she deciding what goes inside the public record? to say more nan half 32,800 e-mails personal in nature yoga wedding, and the such but how does she -- that's how she decides. every employee does. >> that's what she said yesterday. >> it's not the law. >> it s. she can't decide she's not going to turn that server over. >> well, yes, she can. >> no she can't. >> the discretion of employees leaving the government as she said yesterday, what you make part of the public record. >> no, no. mark if you're seriously buying into this -- then you have serious problems. we have something called the freedom of information act. >> that's different. >> something called transparency. what you are suggesting is legal is for a -- a somebody that is
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in the state department or the d.o.d. or the white house to make the unilateral decision they are not going to abide by the 2009 stharnd says youandard that says you back up all e-mails into the servers and delete what you want to delete? >> that's cavalier. she didn't address that. one of the main things not asked ak. in terms of the point willie raised, who decides which e-mails need to be part of the public record? as she said on that one piece of it there's other pieces on that piece it's up to the employee at their disdroegscretion that that needs to be part of the public record i can shed some light on this. >> oh thank you so much. have that in your pocket. >> by the state department's manual outlines guidance "to help employees determine which of their e-mail messages must be
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preserved as federal records and which may be deleted because they are not federal record." >> i don't find it stunning james carville sent that to you last night. i do find it stunning what mark halperin is saying right here. >> it's true joe, it's true. >> it's also true that she was -- she was required -- >> it's in the manual. >> the manual you just keep in your house next to your cereal. >> look it up. >> in 2009 -- mr. fournier, please, step in here. this is turning into a cartoon. >> to be ironic all due respect to mr. halperin the argument like somebody who rob as bank once they get the money to their house they can get to decide how much to return. what we're overlooking here what she conveniently overlooked here, she has total right to have, use a personal account. she wants to make that the case because that's not a problem. she can have a personal account. what she can't do is have that account stored outside of the government servers. so she -- against violation,
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clearly against violation, stored all that on a private, dark server registered to her house kept secret from foi requests and secret from the white house, and now wants to say, oh well i get to decide which of those i will return back to the government. those are our e-mails. that is, in effect i think, our server. now, no one wants to see her private e-mails. no one's asking to see her private e-mails. nobody wants to intrude on her personality, on her, you know her personal life but what we do have to see for the sake of transparency, for the safk honesty, for the sake of integrity and trust in government all work-related e-mails. what she set up, she decided on her own what is a personal e-mail. i wonder if she thinks e-mails she sent to donors to her family's personal charity, i wonder if she thinks those are personal? there's a quid pro quo going on. >> ron, i agree with --
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>> she doesn't turn it over because those are personal e-mails. that's my charity. >> ron, i agree except two points. one is people do want to see her personal e-mail. people are asking to see the serve r. not asking them to be released but see them and she objects to that and -- >> the server yes. no, no. i'm not asking to -- she should turn over the server and then federal our kivist istour -- archive its, go through it -- >> at the phase at which an employee -- i agree with everything else you said and cavalier attitude towards the freedom of information act was wrong i think, but the phase at which any employee goes through e-mails and decides which ones need to be part of the public record, she exercises the same discretion as she said yesterday every employee is allowed to do. >> after she secrets them into her own server. she's taken them out of our custody and now we're going say, okay, can you decide what to do with them? >> i agree. >> one thing if she kept them where they belong.
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once she violated the law, i think schae no right now -- >> ron's exactly right. she violate add 2009 regulation that was clear, letter and spirit of it clear if you do not keep your e-mails in the state department server if you don't do it then you have the responsibility to be proactive and back up all of those e-mails on our servers. >> she said she did. >> bob -- >> no no. >> she didn't. >> no no. >> in the report -- in the q&a they put out she said she said on -- it's got to be verified. >> the ones that she chose. >> mark that's -- >> that's not true. >> just stop. the ones she chose. i'm not going to let misinformation go out on my show. this is misinformation. if hillary had backed up all of the e-mails sha ss that she used on that server in the state department we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. what she's saying is i went through, ron fournier i went through all of these e-mail
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these are the 55,000 e-mails i sdooded to turn over. i'm not turning over anything else that i don't want to turn over. if they were all backed up on the state department server we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. >> it's very simple. we've got to stop helping the clintons parse is. it's simple. the government those are government e-mails. the government is supposed to decide which are truly private, if she chooses to put private e-mails on a government account. then the government decides which ones are private, and she's the one, by the way, who started this by putting them in a government account. >> ron, that's just not correct. >> it's totally -- >> that's just not correct. >> no. the manual says that each employee including hillary clinton decides which are personal and which are federal, and they can delete the personal ones. that's in the manual. >> willie? >> the problem with the manual that manual applies to e-mails stored illegally, incorrectly, on a gochlt server.
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>> doing it illegal, set up your own personal server that doesn't apply. that applies to stored according to the 2009 regulation in the state department. >> clarity. read october 2, 2009. okay make what you will of this. one sentence. agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system. >> here's what you said -- >> federal records. >> what she says she did. again, i'm not saying she did it and i don't want to be cast here at defending everything she did, but what she says she did is most of the e-mails were sent to other government employees and therefore captured and she said in the q&a put out afterwards, any e-mails she sent that was a work e-mail that wasn't something, that was preserved that way she forwarded to someone else at the state definite. >> and that's just bogus, because she gets to choose. mark -- >> and -- and when she's doing
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it. >> no. >> quid pro quo. >> no. i don't -- >> she sends an e-mail on benghazi or something on the clinton foundation. >> no. >> and she decides to delete it why is hillary clinton the only person in the federal government that gets to determine what e-mails she's going to pass along to the state department and that -- >> that's not correct. >> that is very correct. >> i agree with you. >> nobody in the federal government. hillary clinton would never allow this would never allow a subordinate of hers to run their business that way. yet somehow she's above the law. >> and didn't address it yesterday. >> bob franken with us. bob, you covered the clintons for many years. what do you make of what we saw yesterday? >> first of all i speak for everybody when i say i personally want to see about everything she has about her yoga routines. i think that it is important for the public to know all about that. but on a serious note an answer to your question. this is very very much the way that the clintons have operated
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since i've been covering them and i suspect that ron will agree, because we pretty much built our careers, early careers, on covering the clintons and the variety of questions and controversies that came up. they would in effect the derogatory word is to stonewall. for instance, her saying i choose not to let my servers be available. joe, you're a lawyer. you know if a court orders her to turn over her servers, that's going to happen. what she's doing, i suspect, digging herself intoalities bit of a hole and hoping that from a political point of view this is the kind of thing that is forgotten over time. >> you know it's very funny you say that bob, because as a lawyer and i was sitting there, shed i'm not going to turn it over. i just laughed. i lafr again. that's not your decision. that's not your server. that server belongs to the american people. and i'm afraid you're not going to be the one to decide that. >> but that is the way that -- that we came to expect that they would operate during all the
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controversies that came up. notice i'm not using the word scandal, but as the questions were raised about about whitewater and the travel office and all of this kind of thing. what they would first do is dig in their heels and see if they could get away with it and when some persistent official would pursue them on that then quite frankly they would cave and i suspect that if this goes on we're going to see that same kind of thing happen. >> well yeah. you certainly have people that will still say, nothing became of whitewater. they forget that they hid the rose law firm billing records two years. two and a half years, showed up matchics lyn at the white house, everybody laughed it off. isn't that cute? probably destroyed evidence over those two years. why wouldn't you turn something over? >> we can't say that they destroyed evidence. >> you know you can't, you know why? you know why? because they didn't turn it over. they had possession of it two years. >> you will recall that when the jig was up so to speak and the
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records were discovered the first lady of the united states ended up having to testify before a grand jury investigating that. talk about a humiliating circumstance. >> much bet in that grand jury situation, you can say i don't know what happened to those records in my possession two years then showed up magically inside my living quarters in the white house. i mean what happened to the evidence we'll never know. looks like it's the same with the e-mails. we've been talking substance, al hunt. talking about manuals and regulations. let's go to style now. how did hillary do yesterday for the democrats that want to nominate her as their presidential nominee in 2016? >> given a bad hand, joe. i think she did pretty well yesterday. she was poised. she was fairly forceful. i think everything she did was wrong. i don't think it violated the law. she shouldn't have had a private server. i can't understand how over half your e-mails would be personal. thank god for andrea mitchell
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as usual, asked the pointed question, but i must say i laugh when ron morn yea says nobody wantsnobody -- fournier says nobody want to see her personal e-mails. of course they want to see what might embarrass her. i think what this hinges on now is how much else there is. is there stuff and what she's turned over that will -- that will give this story more legs. as of today, i think this is a huge story inside the beltway in the manhattan. i doubt there are a lot of people in star county ohio saying boy, i'm really worried about the server that hillary clinton has. >> the clintons will send people out screaming, spitting swearing and we'll just talk about james there, that are going to say, this is much ado about nothing. let me just ask you, al hunt a guy who's never been considered a right wing dope is this an important story to you? >> on a scale of one to ten, it's about a three. three and a half.
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only a three and a half to you? why's that? >> i think a bigger story is her record at secretary of state, joe. still ahead on "morning joe," the markets look to recover from a bruising day on wall street. brian sull ven and sallie krawcheck have the stories driving the day ahead. plus the hillary clinton e-mail scandal shows the house select committee on benghazi is either incompetent or just a ploy to keep conservatives quiet. committee chairman trey gowdy joins us live to respond to that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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all right. time now -- are you all right there, joe? >> yeah. talking about the same thing
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you're talking about except i'm using guttural noises to communicate. >> the city manager of ferguson, missouri, john shaw resigned. last week's department of justice report blames shaw for behavior of police and the ferguson court system being racially motivated. quote/unquote. released in 2007 a statement released, i certainly expect the work of the doj recently performed in their investigation and report on the city of ferguson i must state clearly my office never instructed the police department to target african-americans, administer fines or heap the revenue on the backs of the poor. ainformation like that are simply false. and germany, a foreign minister distribute add foreign relations booklet featuring a german flag superimposed on a map of france. >> what? >> the brookooklet handed to a
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german diplomat. the gaffe was a regrettable technical error. >> not really good in geography, in their defense, 1940 to 1945 there was a german flag in france. right? and disney tapped tim burton to a live remake of an animated classic "dumb bow" ""dumbo." >> live action telling the story of the flying circus elephant. the move continues disney's recent trend of making live action versions of its popular animated -- >> it's going to be very trippy. >> okay. "new york times." the new york city board of health voted to keep in place a 16-year ban on ferrets. >> damn. >> lifting the ban would have allowed ferrets to join the lists of other domestic mets meeting rabby shots, sterilization. remain legal in starts of new
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york but banned in california and washington. >> so my family and arei are going to have to con live income connecticut. coming up, hillary clinton plans to testify both public and private hearings. chairman trey gowdy join us in a few minutes. plus they may be thousands of miles apart but ann curly share a story bringing together students in new jersey and syria. we'll be right back. can't say thank you enough. you have made my life special by being apart of it. (everyone) cheers! glad you made it buddy. thanks for inviting me. thanks again my friends. for everything for all your help. through all life's milestones our trusted advisors are with you every step of the way. congratulations! thanks for helping me plan for my retirement. you should come celebrate with us. i'd be honored. plan for your goals with advisors you know and trust. so you can celebrate today and feel confident about tomorrow. chase. so you can. it's a significant improvement over
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the system we used was set up for president clinton's office and it had numerous safeguards. it was on property guarded by the secret service and there were no security breaches. >> hillary clinton yesterday defending her use of a private e-mail server while she served as secretary and joining us from greenville south carolina chairman of the house select committee on benghazi republican congressman trey gowdy. good to you have on the show this morning sir. >> thank you. >> i take it you're not satisfied with her explanation on what points? >> well i mean take them from the top. the convenience. i'm not sure how setting up your own private server is more convenient than just having an
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intern add an e-mail account to your smartphone. secondarily, she said "we" went through the doubtscuments. i have no idea who "we" is. thirdly, private to private e-mails that wouldn't be captured by any state.gov and fourthly, she said "we" separated the personal from the public. let me give you a fact pattern. what if i e-mailed you and said look i'm looking really forward to going to chelsea's wedding at the reception i'd like to talk to you about bolivia. is that personal? public, a hybrid and who gets to make that determination? >> i understand that. and that often, that kind of stuff does conflate at times. the heart of the matter moving forward. are you going to be taking steps to try and con pellmpel her to hand over the server? >> well our committee doesn't have the power under our rules. we don't have the power to seize
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a personal property like that. the house as a whole, that's frankly an open constitutional question as to whether or not the house as a whole has that legal authority, but frankly, we shouldn't have to compel it. i think it's eminently reasonable to ask someone to turn this server over to an independent neutral third party. not to the house of representatives. turn it over to a retired judge and archiveist, inspector general, to have assurance that the "we" that separated the public from the private did a good job and furthermore, that only -- what we're entitled to is only self-related to benghazi. i have no interest in anything outside our jurisdiction, but there are ohther committees in congress that may be interested in other public records i. have serious questions about this as well but what if she doesn't have to? this white house knowingly or unknowingly allowed her to operate in this fashion. >> well those would be great
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questions for the president, or for josh earnest. i have -- you know the president apparently takes a very different view of his use of his blackberry and what he constitutes as a private record. now, in defense of secretary clinton, there's a difference between the presidential records act and the federal records act, but one thing that's clear is we don't get to grade our own papers in life. we don't get to call penalties on ourselves. she doesn't get to determine what's a public record and what's a personal record. someone else needs to do that. >> congressman -- >> she says she does. >> she's unilaterally taken on this herself to decide what is a private and what is a public record, and i'm just wondering, if the united states congress, if your committee can't do it doesn't the united states congress need to get ahold of that server? again, with the right people around her representatives, maybe like you said a retired judge, and not only go through
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all of the e-mails but through the deleted e-mails to determine what actually is public and what is private business. there is no way hillary clinton should make that determination on her own. is there? >> no, sir. you don't get to -- again, you don't get to grade your own papers in life. the handicap of being a lawyer is that you look at things from a legal standpoint. you can subpoena but the power to subpoena sewn as good as the power to compel compliance. the house as a whole may have the authority to seize personal property. my committee does not. but rather than have that protracted legal battle i don't know why she doesn't just turn the server over. there are plenty of retired federal judges or archivists or inspector generals people that everyone trusts let that person make the determination of what's public and -- what's a public record and what's a purely private record. she shouldn't make ta call and frankly, i shouldn't make that call.
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>> she's made that call and obviously if these made that call a lot of people are going to think she's made that call because she has something to hide. i still, mark halperin find it hard to believe and i laughed out loud yesterday when she said i'm going to keep the server. i'm going to make all of these decisions myself unilaterally. as a lawyer i laughed. i don't think it's her choice. >> see who has the standing and the legal will to try to stop her. congressman, you said yesterday you want to call hillary clinton to testify twice. once on benghazi and once on her e-mail practices. what's your timetable for asking for or compelling that testimony? >> well sooner rather than later on the document part. i'm happy to talk to her about benghazi but a pretty lousy lawyer if i did it before i had all the domtscuments and it frankly doesn't have to be our committee to have that conversation with her about the security of the server. why you did what you did. >> i'm sorry, back to -- back to your first answer.
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sooner rather than later meaning march, april, may? >> i would like to have it done by april, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the benghazi committee. there are other committees of jurisdiction that could have that conversation with her, but you know the democrats on our committee want us to hurry up hurry up hurry up. i'm happy to hurry up but she is an indispensable witness for us to be able to hurry up. depends how cooperative she is. >> do you think she's willing to testify and if not will you go to court to compel her testimony? >> she's never indicated an aun willingness to testify. when you go to court as we have learned with "fast and furious" and other issues our grandkids will be having this conversation. so going to court while in theory sounds great, it really means two more years of this conversation. >> all right. congressman trey gowdy, thank you very much. i just want to talk to the table here a little bit. >> thank you congressman. >> about this. because al hunt earlier on the show today gave this three on
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the importance of the story. i've been thinking tab ever since it broke and i truly believe there's a difference between partisan drive to media coverage versus legitimate questions from the media. and i really believe that this is in the category of legitimate questions from journalists, or from members of the media. if this will dick cheney and he said i have my own server and i deleted e-mail ice want to delete and you guys get the ones i give you. i'm sorry. there would be -- >> a federal judge would be compelling production immediately. >> i also believe -- >> they just would. >> and i also believe personally if this were dick cheney i would be ferociously asking the questions, or elizabeth warren, i would be asking the questions. i wouldn't understand it. i don't understand why this is okay. >> and for the life of me -- >> i think the answer is because it's not. >> -- i don't understand why journalists who covered the clintons in the 1990s and saw what they did, which would be to
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lie, obfuscate, hide and if want to talk about whitewater, they go look -- james carville look at whitewater. there's nothing to whitewater. how do we know there's nothing in whitewater? because the billing records at the heart of whitewater disappeared for two years. >> almost the exact length of time she withheld her documents from the state department. >> and the same amount of time she withheld documents from the state democrat. >> requested for being filed. >> and over those two years time, evidence can be destroyed. so it appears magically in -- in her living quarters in the white house, and she says she doesn't know how that happened. so -- they're in no position to say, oh there's no scandal. we don't know. because this is what the clintons do and now there are 30,000 e-mails destroyed and we don't know what was in them. >> and even the '90s out of this it's a fascinating question how the secretary of state go rogue and has her own suburb in a suburb of new york.
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>> leafy suburb i.. >> i mean, okay. i know i'd be asking the question if it were someone else. >> i guarantee you, other people who act like it's no big deal if it were dick cheney donald many rumsfeld america would be going crazy. >> up next, the dyaldial turns red for 2015. talking wall street. we'll be right back. what the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers. it used to take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome; with the microsoft cloud we can analyze 100 per day. whatever i can do to help compute a cure for cancer, that's what i'd like to do. introducing preferred rewards from bank of america the new banking rewards program that rewards our customers, every day.
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you want. i'll pull up their number. blammo. let's get those guys on the horn. oooo looks like it is time to upgrade your phone, douglass. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this. 433569 the hour. time for business before the bell with cnbc's brian sullivan. also joining the table the chair of elevate, a global professional women's network sallie krawcheck, past of our we i'm who run things" series. first, the headlines. brian what are you looking at after a very tough day for the markets? >> right. sallie is the perfect person to
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comment on. truly in her realm, global macro. the world's attention is focused on letters to iran and e-mail servers, don't lose site what's happening in financial markets. it's not just about stocks. a global economic story. the u.s. dollar on a tear. sounds like good news may be long term. issue, if you're an american company looking to export around the world suddenly you are far less competitive because your costs have gone up. euro in a free fall. cheaper to go to paris on vacation but u.s. kpips spooked about the use of the u.s. dollar and price of gas under $50. looks like we could gelt our first federal reserve interest rate hike as early as june. many of our guests said to us many times, interest rates could move up as early as june. there's literally people almost had an economic lifetime without an interest rate hike. there is a whole lot of stuff going on all at the same time.
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>> wow. okay. sallie? >> those are young people who haven't had an interest rate hike in an economic lifetime, but it's interesting, all of a sudden things feel so strong. i saw this morning from pew that the number of unemployed folked per open job is back to pre-recession levels. we talked about it the other week. people are leaving jobs without other jobs to find jobs. a feeling of energy which isn't always good for the markets. >> not good. interest rate hike coming. >> exactly. >> yeah. >> but good news for consumers is the fact seems the labor market is tightening up in a way that actually will drive prices up. always wanted to subscribe a fix for that. end of the day, a shortage of workers, wages go up. >> absolutely. on a day-to-day basis driving from one place to the other, you've had the equivalent of a significant tax cut. start to pay less at the pump. >> just listening. >> you're the consumer today. things are certainly feeling better. >> all right. so for women who run things i've
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brought you onboard for elevate and want to get some back story on your career and then how we get to this network which you laughed. yes. your career, sallie. much like mine. >> these wrinkles here. right? >> your career was much like mine. it had ups. it had downs. and much do you draw that from career moving forward with the concept what you created now the elevate network? >> i got to the idea of the positivity of women and money and women in business together because i had a front row seat in the financial crisis. >> sure dnkts i sure did. and while, you know the media at large says it was greed, greed, greed, what i saw was group think. and that the way you break group think is through diversity. >> no. group think, a lot of men think or just group think? >> turns out a lot of men think, because those two things went together and i worked on a number of management teams. some diverse, some weren't and the ones diverse were more effective teams. might note have been more
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efficient. might have made decisions more slowly but came out to better decisions. >> the all-male teams, not to bash men, just curious. what were some of the, i guess what stood out as sort of the characteristics common? >> first of all i always want to say i love men. i've been married to a couple of them. right? >> they're part of the equation. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> what i saw was individuals who had gone to the same schools, who'd been to the same training program, had the same information, went on vacation together, therefore, came to the same conclusions. oftentimes were right. but when it came to the financial crisis deadly wrong. >> right. and not a crime. i mean i've seen that actually in the tv world. there's a whole concept about everybody being in the same place. at certain networks. okay. so now elevate. tell us about it and what drove you to come to -- i remember at the beginning of this concept you came to me so excited, and i could tell honestly by the look on your face that this thing was going to fly. >> well i've been very pleased
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how it's gone. the idea economic and financial engagement of women as a positive. we advance it through the network where women come together and they exchange ideas. they get information and education, and they move forward in business. we've seen it through the mutual fund through the pacts elevate global index fund i launched in partnership with pacts world investing in companies for advancing women and that's gone very well as well. the idea women in business women engages with their money is almost an unmitigated positive. >> right. and there are women who need to do that more. do you agree? a market out there for what you're doing. >> oh no doubt about it. look, you have done such a great job with know your worth and asked ask for that raise. if women were to close the wage gap we would close one-third of the retirement savings gap. so this idea of women and men making the same amount of money, which is the law of the land but we have room to go you
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know, can be such a positive. >> well it is great to have you here. sallie krawcheck, thank you very much, and a reminder talking about no your value. go on our website, msnbc.com knowyourvalue, events across the country and i urge all women to go through the exercise of uploading a video of yourself. tell me pitch me why you sderch a bonus, tell me why you have value. three contestants in each city are going to compete live onstage after coaching and one of them will lyn $10,000. we're really going to drive the point home. so get online and join the grow your value bonus competition. up next, why a mayor from new jersey is going through one of the most dangerous places in it's world by choice. ann curry has the story, next. keep it right here on "morning joe."
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53 past. now to a story about syriaened its unlikely and touching connection to new jersey. a syrian immigrant who settled in the garden state is fighting to help the children of syria's underground schools. ann curry has the story. >> reporter: from all appearances, he seems to be your average american family man, raising young children. a hard-working school
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administrator foreten years he's also been part-time mayor of tiny prospect park new jersey. but mayor mohammed leads a double life taking him to one of the most dangerous places in the world. you heard the cries all the way here in new jersey from aleppo syria. >> i could relate with the suffering of the people, particularly the children. >> reporter: he was himself a small child when his family immigrated to america from aleppo. into that war zone he's gone back five times in three years. discovering the struggle to survive aerial bomb has driven some of aleppo's children underground. >> this area we're going down to is designed to be a bomb shelter. >> reporter: in a cellar these girls are studying english, despite poor ventilation. >> we always drink tea. >> one of the girls, she said they were bomb us as much as they want we will continue to
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pursue our education. >> reporter: it was seeing how much the children wanted to learn despite war, hunger and the winter cold that convinced the mayor to start a foundation using social media to raise $300,000 so far supplying a growing network of underground schools, despite his own risk hoping more of us will care about the suffering of aleppo's children. >> when you see the smile on a child's face that's what it's about for me. you know? making a difference in the lives of those who nobody else cares about. >> reporter: some people would say, you're a hero. what would you say? >> i'm just a servant. with a purpose. >> reporter: a servant keeping hope alive for the future of syria. >> yeah. up next what if anything did we learn today?
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it's a uniquely collaborative approach you won't find anywhere else. put our global active management expertise to work for you. mfs. there is no expertise without collaboration. that's exciting. with all due respect, i like it. >> are we on-air? >> okay. >> really. the guy that plays beeman? >> how did you -- >> he's got agent beeman we have martin o'maley exclusively tomorrow. what we learned today. >> now, with the americans. awesome. >> it's time to go. >> and how he made us all cheer for the russians. >> yes. okay. it's way too early, joe. what time is it? >> you know kids if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." by the way, i just want to
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apologize, you know if i said anything today that -- >> give the benefit of the doubt. >> never mind. >> give millry the ryhillary the ben dist of the doubt? what are you talking about? "rundown"'s now. good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. welcome to "the rundown." we begin with breaking news out of the florida panhandle. 11 u.s. military personnel, 7 marines, 4 soldiers presumed dead following the crash of an army black hawk helicopter ta went down during a training mission near the coast. search and rescue continues right now but there's very little hope for survivors. joining me on the phone, eglin air force base spokesman andy boren. can you confirm the status of those 11 military personnel? >> jose i'm trying to be careful about, we are not confirming 11 dead at this point. we are still considering this a

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