tv Up W Steve Kornacki MSNBC May 30, 2015 5:00am-7:01am PDT
including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb hepatitis b, are prone to infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. if you're still just managing your symptoms, ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. dennis hastert's secret past. all right. good morning. thanks for getting up with us. there are shocking new rev lagdss about former speaker of the house dennis hastert.
details on that and what it all means just a minute from now. president obama declaring the flooding in texas a major disaster. and the people who make budweiser are stepping in to help out. both those developments are ahead. plus the president of fifa speaking out, if not lashing out about the allegations against soccer's world governing body. we'll be looking into that ahead this hour. we begin this morning with a stunning turn in the federal prosecution of former house speaker dennis hastert. federal law enforcement officials telling nbc news that hastert was paying a man in order to conceal past misconduct of a sexual nature. on thursday, as you'll recall federal prosecutors charged hastert seemingly out of the blue with concealing payments to a person named in the indictment only as individual a. more than $3 million that were allegedly promised in apparently
hush money. federal law enforcement sources now saying the payments were an effort to cover up the sexual relationship that took place while the man was a student in a high school. hastert used to be a teacher and coach in yorkville before he got into politics. adam reese joins us from yorkville. you're on the ground in this town where hastert taught for all those years. what are you hearing from the locals, are they shocked? >> they still call him coach here in yorkville even 40 years after he stop teaching and coaching football and wrestling. he even led to team to the 1976 state championships. made it all the way to the pinnacle in power in washington. eight years as speaker of the house. second in line to the presidency that what's makes it so baffling.
they don't believe a guy who was low key could be charges with u. is a crime. for their part the local high school has put out a statement saying they had no knowledge of his alleged misconduct. they learned about it as we did on thursday. in the last 24 hours he put out a statement he has stepped down from the law firm where he worked. the cme here in chicago, his professional life is tarnished. his future in doubt. steve? >> all right. msnbc's adam reese on the ground in yorkville, illinois. as we mentioned the charges against hastert seeming to come out of nowhere. former congressional colleagues from both parties saying they were surprised by the indictment. >> it's surprising. i think that would be a universal response. and of course remains to be seen what comes forth now. but it's very sad for him and sad, really for the congress. >> and we want to turn now to someone who knows illinois politics and politicians better
than anyone lynn from the washington sun times. we're hearing everybody they're so surprised and shocked. at the same time, there were i guess, rumblings in washington in the last few week and months that there might be some sort of legal issue involving dennis hastert. now we find out it's this. in terms of response from him, have we been hearing anything? >> no, it's been total silence from him. we don't even have any statement from a lawyer. there's no lawyer of record who has stepped up. and, steve, just as an update he has resigned from yet another board that he was on yesterday. filing came through and the securities and exchange commission. so he has been -- his actions, we know, from a bit of a paper trail, is that he has been taking care of resigning from groups that he has been affiliated with as he entered this next sad tough, very serious chapter of his life.
>> where do we know this goes from here? because, obviously, there's the legal case here involving these banking transactions and concealing potentially concealing large withdrawals from federal oversight. but at the same time there is this whole issue of sexual misconduct that would not be covered by any statute. the statute of limitations has been expired. he wouldn't be prosecuted. but that's the thing here that's really damaging to his reputation. >> well, all of this is damaging. the sun times has reported that federal authorities interviewed two people males, about alleged past sexual misconduct that took place when he was a history teacher and wrestling coach. and that's the reason allegedly, why he then went to the banks to withdraw this cash that got him in trouble. and of the things that just don't make sense about this case for somebody of his supposedly level of knowledge and
sophistication and watching so many other people in congress get in trouble. it seems he gave a flip answer to the fbi when the agents came to question him where he said well, i don't trust the banks. so it seems he just had so many problems, some self-created to compound a very serious issue. >> please stay with us i want to bring in our panel. we have the ceo host of the show steele and hunger along with the other half of that show. and senior politics editor at the daily beast. let me just start with you, from republicans in washington, d.c., for a decade really from the late 90s through the bush administration dennis hastert, you know, right there next to the president, george w. bush one of the top leaders in all the country. what is your reaction? >> shocked. he was a well-regarded
individual. particularly when you consider how he came in to power on the heels of scandal. from the two previous speakers. then to have this drop. yes, it's much later in his career past his time in office. i think people have fond memories of what he did and what he was as a speaker. i think a lot of folks are trying to sort this out to get their head around it. i think you hit on the key point, the financial transactions are one thing, the allegations of sexual misconduct is something wholly different, particularly with young kids at the time he was a high school teacher and coach. that will be very much problematic, even though as you said the statute of limitations has passed. that's a stain that you cannot unstain. >> it's interesting, you mentioned he's been out of the lime light for a few years. that jumps out me. you think back to 1998 when he becomes the speaker, bob livingston is supposed to be the
next speaker, he steps down hastert comes down. for all those years, this was there, this was in his past. he knew about this. apparently this individual this -- not until 2010 where he strikes this deal. >> he knew he met a bit of money after he left as the speaker. what's most fascinating, at this point to me we know the conjectture of what he did. i want to know has individual a been indicted secretly or otherwise or will he be. if not, why won't he be. he was extorting somebody. i don't care if you were sexually abused as a kid. it's a terrible thing, but extorz is terrible >> what do we know about that? this is -- it's such a confusing in a way indictment, from the very beginning with this cryptic thing about individual a and yorkville in the 60's and 70's.
we have leaks, we're not sure where they're coming from. we can suspect. what do we know about the other person here the individual a? >> individual a has not been publicly identified. people sue all the time to get damages for alleged wrongdoings. sexual misconduct victims sue the church sue people who have hurt them. there's ways of legally dealing with the fallout of situations. this situation, though seems to have been handled the long way that led denny to lie to the fbi officers and, you know and mess up on the banking rolls. but, steven and everyone in new york what is at issue here is that individual a for the moment, for the moment seems to have gotten a pass because we don't know anything about what and how his conduct may have
also crossed over to illegal areas. >> that's what i wondered about. i guess i'm speculating along with everybody else. i think we look at it and assume blackmail and extortion. when you start thinking about it what is there to prevent two individuals from striking a private deal? look, you know you did something wrong to me years ago, i think i deserve compensation for it. okay. i'm -- on hastert's side i don't want this coming up and decides he'll pay some money. >> the patriot act is what makes this illegal. that's something that hastert helped push through which is one of the great puzzling things about this horrible situation, what's turning out to be a horrible situation. avoiding the federal reporting guidelines by withdrawing just under the limit. just under that $10,000 limit that's what's wrong here.
that's how he got caught. which is just -- hastert knew that this could happen. somewhere in his head he had to know this was possible. it really is puzzling. >> although if you're faced -- go ahead. >> i mean, that is what you're picking up on that there was a legal way to structure this. you have an agreement, an out of court settlement. but something individual a didn't want to do it apparently -- we don't know why this wasn't done legally. >> when there is a settlement like that doesn't that enter into the public record. hastert's thing is i don't want anybody to know. >> individual a probably didn't want anybody to know either. >> when you look at the elements of extortion there is fine differences between extortion and other things it could be p. this is extortion. if you look at the elements it does not appear to be a legal settlement. a legal settlement we're trying
to get to a conclusion this is fair i'll give you this. that does not appear to be what happened here. based on what hastert did say and what individual a did tell the fbi it was not a let's negotiate a settlement. it's if you don't do this i will do this. and that is a different part. it could have been a legal settlement. but it wasn't. >> we don't know that. >> we don't know but from everything we're hearing. >> we don't know. >> why would you pay 3.5 $3.5 million if he didn't threaten to tell. >> that's one of the mysteries. we can't say for sure. the other thing here i want to play this. again, for all we know this may have nothing to do with it. this looks different in light of what's come out in the last 48 hours. this was dennis hastert appearing on cspan last year and a caller from yorkville calls in. >> trillions of dollars on the national debt. >> illinois is our next call.
here's bruce independent line. >> hello denny. >> hey, how are you doing? >> pretty good. remember me from yorkville? >> bruce you're on go ahead with your question. >> i think he's gone. let's go to ohio. >> and you're watching that in the moment and you think it's a crank call. we don't know if that is someone who is calling in to taunt him or just a totally unrelated thing. thanks for lynn for joining us. what does hillary clinton have to worry about on the campaign trail? our list of four things she needs to watch out for, that is ahead. first, we're going to go live to texas now suffering through its wettest month ever with tragic consequences. wait until you hear how much rain has fallen. born we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school.
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as we speak this morning another line of powerful storms is barrelling through the dallas area. rain and flooding has already forced the closure of a major highway there, that highway may not reopen for a week. this has been a horrific few weeks in texas, as well as neighboring oklahoma. this is the wettest month ever for texas. more than 35 trillion gallons of rain have fallen in the state this month. spread it out, it's enough to cover all of texas in eight inches of water. nbc's sarah dellf is life in texas. tell us what's going on on the ground there. >> we have sad news unfortunately to record this morning. officials announce they have recovered the bodies of two more people that were inside their
vacation home when it was swept away by blood waters memorial day weekend. five people from that home remain missing. the lone survivor was treated and released from the hospital late this week. meanwhile, cell phone video shows just how quickly conditions changed and just how dangerous things became. this was shot by a different family in a different vacation home. the perez family a mother father and a young daughter. you can see the water pouring into the room as they film that from a second story balcony. they were lucky there was a fire crew nearby that was checking on their neighbors. they were able to rescue that family. they were unharmed. in wimberley today, the search continues as do cleanup efforts. they are likely to be hampered by rain, which is expected on and off throughout the day. back to you. >> all right. thank you for that report. still ahead on the show.
we are going to go live to baltimore. about 90 minutes from now the drax race for president is expected to grow with martin o'malley getting in and going up against this guy. >> as someone who has never run a negative political ad in my life my campaign will not be driven by political gossip or reckless personal attacks. >> bernie saunders says he won't go negative in his bid for the democratic presidential nomimation. hillary clinton may have a lot to fear from him. we'll talk about why on the other side of this break. right now, verizon is offering unlimited talk and text. plus 10 gigs of shareable data. yeah, 10 gigantic gigs. for $80 a month. and $15 per line. more data than ever. for more of what you want. on the network that's #1 in
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immigrants a driver's license? you told the new hampshire paper it made a lot of sense. do you support his plan? tim, this is where everybody plays got you. it makes a lot of sense. what is the governor supposed to do? he is dealing with a serious problem. we have failed and george bush has failed. do i think this is the best thing for any governor to do? no. >> that was hillary clinton in a famous debate moment back in october of 2007 flailing as tim russert tried to pin her down on her position on driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants. many people feel that that's the moment when the wheels started to come off clinton's campaign for the presidency in 2008 during that race. she came under fire for giving answers that seemed vague, not being clear and specific on all of the issues. so far in this race clinton has managed to avoid making a similar mistake. this is the part of the campaign where she actually is now going to to start getting competition. a little more than a hour from
now, martin o'malley will be throwing his hat in the ring. more on that in a just a little bit. bernie saunders announced his own bid on tuesday and has begun drawing large crowds. clinton insiders are worried about the threat posed by sanders. not that he would win and defeat her but he could damage her by challenging her on core progressive issues in debates. making her look like a centrist. here to take a look at some of the positions that the clinton campaign could be frightened about is the senior editor of nbc news. joins me at the big board. >> thank you steve. >> we've got four issues. bernie sanders, maybe martin o'malley could really press
hillary clinton the way we saw her presses on the driver's license issue back in 2007. the trade deal tpp, transpacific deal. >> you just asked a question about hillary clinton you were tough on her about not having a stance about the trade deal. >> i think it's important for secretary clinton to have an opinion. >> i want to judge the final agreement. i have been for trade agreements and against agreements. i've tried to make the evaluation depending upon what i thought they would produce. and that's what i'm waiting to see. >> so you got a clear no from bernie saupdnders, how long can she string this out without taking a position? >> she's caught between a rock and a hard place. the progressive movement in the liberal base is against the free trade agreement.
you see where the movement is among progressives. on the other hand, when she was secretary of state he referred to this deal as a gold standard of free trade agreements. it's a no win situation for her. what you're seeing her do now is trying not to have a position until the tpa, the trade promotion authority or fast track gets pass. if it passes the house of representatives, she's going to have to be forced. she's taking the point of if it doesn't pass the house of representatives i'm not goseing to take a position. she's in a uncomfortable position. >> she's bought herself a little time. let's see what else we have. the minimum wage here. this has become a big issue on the left. raising the minimum wage as high as $15. >> i'm leading the effort to raise the minimum wage up to $15
an hour so people who work 40 hours a week will thought be living in poverty. >> i am in favor of raising the minimum wage at the federal level. states and some cities are on their own raising the minimum wage. but i think there needs to be a federal floor. and i believe that the democrats in the senate are going to introduce legislation to do just that. >> she's saying she's for raising the minimum wage. is she going to get close to the $15 figure that bernie saunders is talking to that? >> i think you'll see here closer to where president obama is. on most issues, i think hillary clinton will be in the same position where president obama is. mainly, when you're talking to getting you ready for a general election, as well as courting most democratic voters. you know bernie saunders wants to go to $15. it's probably less of a real
it'sic opportunity. given what president obama has proposed by $10 has been a non-starter on capitol hill. i think we'll see hillary clinton going the president obama route. by saunders saying we need to have it at $15 he's championing the left. he is raising the bar which makes $10 more palatable. >> this is sitgenscitizens united. let's listen to bernie sanders on this and then hillary clinton. >> i have said it before and i'll say it again. i will not nominate any justice to the supreme court who has not made it clear that he or she will move to overturn that disastrous decision which is undermining american democracy. >> i think the supreme court made a grave error with its
citizens united decision. and i will do everything i can do to appoint supreme court justices who will protect the right to vote and not the right of billionaires to buy elections. >> so here it is this is the new litmus test for candidates for the supreme court. will you overturn citizens united. they're saying yes to that. i guess the difference is when you talk about coordinating superpacs and giving them the go ahead to work on your behalf. bernie saunders is saying now, hillary clinton is saying yes. >> at least on the issues we've looked at they're the closest here than they have been on minimum wage or the trail dealde deal. there is where the democratic party is on citizens united. i think you're right. this is an amazing litmus test when you're talking about supreme court -- we're not talking about abortion the healthcare law. people are saying where do you stand on citizens united.
this is a fundamental change from 2012. president obama in his state of the union dress after citizens united said he disagreed with us. now we're heading to 2015 and 2016 and this is the issue when it comes to the supreme court that has energized the democratic party. >> this is about social security. do we want to cut it to save the program or keep it where it is. let's listen to what bernie saunders is saying. >> instead of cutting social security, we are going to expand social security benefits. >> social security trust fund according to the trusties will be solvent until 2035. what do we do to make sure it's there and we don't mess with it and we don't pretend that it's a luxury because it's not a
luxury. >> they're in two different places here. bernie saunders is saying let's make it bigger hillary clinton is saying i want to keep it status quo. is she going to be forced in her direction. >> i see this like the minimum wage. bernie saunders is trying to raise the bar. being able to expand social security, how do you pay for it. by him saying we should actually expand social security it forces here where she can't end up taking the position on we should start reforming entitlements like social security. we should end up having some kind of trained cpi that we ended up hearing during the great debates on cutting spending in the government. so by progressives like bernie saunders saying we shouldn't leave social security alone we need to expand it. he is raising the bar for her and making it hard for democrats to even consider cutting entitle entitlements. baltimore city states attorney marilyn mosby's first
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ice cream. what kind of turnout are you expecting at this event? >> it's a much smaller venue. they're not even prepared to handle anything close to the size of what bernie sanders had. so that will speak to something. i think it's fair to draw a comparison here. these are both guys who were mayor then elected state wide and returning to their hometown to announce a presidential run. it is fair to draw comparisons. how much enthusiasm can you generate in your hometown. >> we are live in baltimore, thank you for the update. o'malley making his announcement this morning in the city he served as mayor. he earned a reputation as being tough on crime. he passed one of the strictest gun control laws in the country. these are achievements that hope
will make he attractive. he left the office in january and has been laying a groundwork for years now. he wants to present himself as the bolder and purer choice for democrats. the last time hillary clinton ran for president in 2008 he was one of her loudest supporters. he starts this race with essentially no support. he's at 1% in the newest poll. bernie sanders is already at 15%. it's an uphill climb for o'malley. anything can happen. i guess so. let's talk to the panel about this one. i start with you michael, as our resident marylander. i mean i look at it and alex was talking about this i agree with what alex was saying he's not expecting that big of a crowd in baltimore today. i was up in burlington with bernie sanders, 5,000 people.
i'm not saying burnies sanders is a threat to beat hillary clinton i'm saying there's energy he's topping into to. >> there is a lot of energy for bernie because he captured the imagination of the progressive left and he has a message for them. martin has a different problem. he's got hillary on one side and bernie on the other. he's not going to out left bernie. he won't be more progressive than bernie sanders. he's got to find that choice. he was wnone of the biggest cheerleaders for hillary in 2008. what's changed? the second and most important problem he has is the hometown. >> given the events in baltimore, a lot of citizens in baltimore do not support this effort, certainly state wide. i think there was a state wide pole poll, 69% were like no we don't think. if your hometown says if you
come back there may be riots, that's a problem. you can expect a smaller turnout. a muted response to his presidential bid. >> look at the front page of the post. baltimore's blight has o'malley on the defensive. that's not a -- this guy is going to make good. >> he had to do this. you got to own it. it's your hometown you can't be see announcing it somewhere. >> he was in europe and he came back to walk around baltimore and didn't get a good reception. it's particularly because of the policing some of the controversy around his policies. he's got to get out of the margin of error first, that's step one. it's going to be interesting to see how he tries to square. also, he wasn't necessarily a liberal guy. >> not in the city of baltimore. not as mayor of baltimore. >> i know how you arrest 100,000 out of 625,000 people in one
year almost all of them black and argue you're a progressive. many of these people were arrested for being black. i don't think this guy has a chance. i think he's the ultimate politician. he did that in a year when he knew he was going to be running again and wanted to appear tough on crime. as michael knows better than anybody. he won't be able to hold up. >> he plays guitar. >> so do i. >> we'll be checking in baltimore as that o'malley event approaches approaches. for more, martin o'malley getting in the race. shameless self-promotion i won't about some of the challenges o'malley changes.: you can read about it on msnbc.com. should hillary clinton be looking at mitt romney for what not to do? the president of fifa is
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in its class. the twenty-fifteen subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. i am not monitor everyone all of the time. if people want to do wrong, they will also try to hide it. >> and that was the president of the international soccer's governing body fifa evading responsibility this week for allegations of corruption involving the organization that he heads. seemed to be a persuasive argument for the folks who work with him. he was reelected yesterday as the president. early wednesday morning police officers having swarmed one of the fanciest hotels in switzerland to arrest seven executives gathered for a week of meetings that would culminate
with his reelection. >> our investigation revealed that what should have been an expression of international sportsmanship was used as a vehicle in this broader scheme to line executive's pockets with bribes totally $110 million. nearly a third oft legitimate costs of the rights to the tournaments involved. >> and what might be the most blatant allegation a former fifa executive is accused oof shopping his vote to the highest bidder eventually accepting. and this allegedly is how business is done in international soccer or how it was done until u.s. officials decided that they'd seen enough. >> the game according to the
allegations in this indictment was hijacked. that field that is so famously flat was made tilted in favor of those who were looking to gain at the expense of countries and kids who were enjoying the game of soccer. >> the indictments may not be over yet. the 2018 world cup in russia, the 2022 cut in quatar won't mentioned. u.s. officials say the investigation is ongoing. the irs official in charge of criminal investigations telling "the new york times" this morning that another round of indictments are coming. swiss officials say they have opened their own investigation into how russia and quatar were selected. he is questions the timing of the charged in an interview. i am not certain but it doesn't smell good. and expressing his surprise i
would never as fifa president make comments about another organize without the being sure of what happened. mike pesca is joining us. let me ask you a bigger question here. we talk about soccer as the one major sport that this country has never latched on to. around the world it's the most popular sport. when the united states is leading the charge against the international governing body of soccer, how does that look to soccer fans around the world? are they siding with prosecutors in the yeast saying good for you, go get the guys or does the u.s. have any business? >> it depends who the fans are and how informed they are. europe is with the united states. i don't know that europe had the muscle or the laws. i mean the united states is a leader in the rule of law. and so all of europe they are even threatening to withdraw from fifa and the president of the european federation has asked him to step down.
sepp blatter said she's shocked at what's going on. i don't think any soccer fan would be surprised. we're talking about there's a lot of corruption in the world. i don't know most of the world's population -- isn't this the way power works? >> was there something about awarding the world cup to south africa in 2010 even if there was corruption i think a lot of people around the world and said that's a nice symbolic statement that south africa has come so far. was there a line crossed in terms of public opinion by giving it to quatar. >> i was at the south african world cup. without the allegations, it's great for africa. the africa nations love blatter.
these little countries have as much of a vote as germany and the u.s. he satisfied his contiffin -- >> it's 122 degrees in quatar. >> they moved to the winter high of 90. great. why did it have to be moved. then they came out with this garcia report. he is not a former u.s. attorney -- he wants to disassociation himself from the report they're not issuing it fully. fifa clears itself of bribery but no one looks at this report as an authoritative document. there's a whole lot of stink. >> the prosecution is taking place, maybe more indictments to come. at the same time blatter reelected. do you think big picture a year or two from now thingeds will change? >> there is no reformist
movement where you can identify with a person. prince ali said i'll step up. it's not like he has this long history of this. in the ioc equivalent organization there are reformers, old guard. i think there are more forces for good that could plausibly be elected and take power. it's a little bit worse than the elks club elections. >> those can be fun to cover. mike pesca, thank you for joining us. still ahead, the historic event that took place 15 years ago. a little tongue in cheek tease is there.
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weekend. going to be a rare senate session tomorrow on sunday to deal with those provisions in the patriot act he wants to hold up and kill off. so this superpac that's backing him came out with this video. >> sunday sunday sunday. get ready, america. for the biggest brawl delivered of the century. bringing the biggest rivals head to head. defender of freedom senator rand paul. versus the head of the washington spy machine, barack obama. >> so i think the paul people are excited about what's going coming tomorrow. >> i laughed so hard. >> what is this -- rand paul this week sort of in terms of the politics of the republican party he stepped on it in isis. he's trying to stage this fight in the senate tomorrow that in part at least this is clearly
with an aim towards helping him in 2016. is he helping himself here? >> among a certain group of people that actually really like rand paul, sure. this is his fight. this is something he's picked a fight on several times. he kind of has to go through with it. these ads, they're aimed toward young people. they hope that -- they're a little tongue in cheek. they're a little tongue in cheek, but we're playing it. >> it's true. >> he's made an interesting calculation. i don't think it's going to work out for him. but he's basically willing to trade the republican base in the hopes he's going to bring in new young voters to support his way of thinking. we'll see what happens. i don't think it works. >> yeah, i just feel like all the talk that he could broaden the appeal from what his father had. i'm looking at the reaction at him this week it's -- >> who does the reaction come from? it's the same old people who
like the same old stuff who want today it the old way. who want to go back to policies that the american people have said failed. he is carving out this space in an independent way. i think it's refreshing and opens up the conversation inside the gop. we are doing a whole lot of dancing and prognosticating before the battle begins. that is in august when they're standing on the stage -- >> not all of them. >> that's a good point. >> when some of them are standing on that stage. and that is part of the conversation and how they react one to the other. that's when you begin to judge the size of what he's doing and the impact he's having. this is from "the washington post," headline this morning the history of reality tv. 15 years ago yesterday the show survivor premiered on cbs. cbs aired it during the summer because they weren't sure it would draw an audience. 50 million people ended up tuning in for the finale. it ushered in the era we are
living in now. everything is a reality show. everything is the house wives of st. louis county. >> survivor is still on? >> survivor amazing race the housewives show. >> i have -- >> reality tv goes back way before survivor. unsolved mysteries, the real world. it goes on and on and on. i made a couple reality shows i'm embarrassed to tell you what they were. it goes way back. >> that's what reality tv is. it's the guilty pleasure for everybody. nobody says they watch and you look at the ratings and you find out everybody was watching it. another full hours of news and politics is ahead.
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thanks for staying with us this saturday morning. lots more to come this hour including the question of whether we've reached a watershed moment in america's use of the death penalty. the first red state to say no to capital punishment in four decades. more on that in just a moment. this hour rick santorum won iowa and ten other states in 2012 as he starts another bid for the white house. will he get into the debate? plus should hillary clinton be looking to mitt romney for an example of what not to do in her campaign for president. we begin this hour with what appears to be a watershed moment for capital punishment in america. on wednesday, as you may have heard the nebraska state legislature voted to repeal. nebraska becoming the first red state to abolish capital punishment in more than four
decades. since north dakota way back in 1973. >> what really tipped it was this group of what i -- they're fiscally conservative individuals who just see the death penalty as a wasteful government program now that in our state is completely broken. >> nebraska's move comes as support for the death penalty is at the lowest point in 40 years. 56% of americans support it. that is down from an all time high of 78% back in the mid1990's. that's a significant 22 point drop over the last two decades. it's worth noting a dramatic shift in public opinion we're seeing at the same time on another issue. new questions about how prisoners are executed following last year's botched one in oklahoma. european drugmakers are refusing to sell lethal injection drugs
to u.s. prisons. in response to the shortage, utah enacted the return of firing squads at least potentially out there. conservatives in other red states seem to be moving in the opposite direction. republican backed repeal effort are underwayen kansas kentucky, south dakota montana where a repeal vote fell one vote short. are we seeing a transformative moment. the beginning of the end for the nation's ultimate punishment? to discuss this i'm joined by death penalty advocate a law professor with georgetown university. thanks for joining us. let me start with this. i did the story on this show a few weeks ago. there was a prisoner on death row in alabama. he'd been there for 30 years. then he was just let out of jail. this is about a month ago
because it turned out he hadn't committed the crime. do stories like that have an impact on your thinking about the death penalty? >> i think the death penalty is something we should keep. it's supported by the american people according to gallop. 60% or more of people have supported the death penalty. of course we want to be careful. we are careful. the death penalty system in the united states is the most careful system in the world. over the last 50 years there is no evidence that the united states has executed a single innocent person someone who was factually innocent. there are some cases for which the death penalty really is the only punishment that fits the crime. take -- >> i want to press you a little bit on that. in over 40 years now since the
return of the death penalty. since the supreme court said it's okay to have it again. there have been 153 exonerations. i cited one in alabama from just about a month ago. you're saying with confidence you don't think an innocent person has been put to death in the united states? >> not in the last 50 years, no. questions have been raised, that's one thing. the questions that have been raised is different from offering proof that most people accept that an innocent person has been executed. and in the great majority of cases, the identity of the killer is not even in question. let's go back to dzhokhar tsarnaev case, the boston marathon killer. he was on tape planting the bomb at the feet of an 8-year-old boy. or the timothy mcveigh case, there was no question about his
guilt. in the john wayne gacy case who torched dozens of boys and young men. there was no question about his guilt. there are going to be hundreds of cases in which there is no realistic question of guilt. >> that's true certainly. we talk about the boston marathon case. there was no question. stay there for a second. i want to bring the rest of the panel in to reintroduce them to the audience. let me ask you about this. i know you have a different perspective on this from a lot of your fellow republicans, but so what he talks about is a lot of these cases, myself included. you hear about john wayne gacy and tsarnaev in boston. these are the worst crimes you can imagine. put this person to death. at the same time if you're going to do it in those cases, what about the other cases where there's a lot more doubt, it's a lot less clear cut?
>> that is a big part of the problem. al i appreciate the perspective that you can throw out these big cases where the individual who committed the crime is very clear. but as we're seeing with the use of technology going back in time to revisit some of these older cases where dna information is more available, et cetera you're seeing different results now. you're seeing the opportunity of missing it. and getting it wrong. and the question that the country has to ask itself is that, yes, we have 100 wayne gacy's that we know did it and we have one joe brown whose story line is not as focused. do we sacrificetle him on that altar? i think that's why you see people revisiting the question. we did a revisit of death
penalty in the state of maryland. there are system checks that are not as strong as we think there are. you know, the effort of gathering information and the stockpiling of information and keeping the information over time particularly dna information becomes less tenuous for folks. you're not sure. there are concerns about whether the person you have is the one that committed the crime. >> i want to put this up on the screen. this is from amnesty international. this is a list of countries -- this is selective, i admit. these are countries that have the death penalty. china, saudi arabia pakistan iran sudan. countries that don't have the death penalty. united kingdom, france germany, canada, australia. do you look at that and say we belong belong?
the united states of america doesn't belong. >> you omitted from the list developed countries like japan, south korea, india. these are not barbaric countries and they have the death penalty. the main country you omitted, and whose history counts the most here is the united states. the united states is not a barbaric country. the founder of our country, george washington not only believed in it he used the death penalty, as did abraham lincoln, fdr, president obama believes in the death penalty. the idea we're in bad company with all of these people believing in the death penalty is just not something i believe the person people are buying. >> let me bringing the rest of the panel here rick with you, i mean the case for the death penalty i guess you can look at it terms in a moral case an eye for an eye. you -- people argue it's a deterrent. i have trouble seeing it's a
deterrent when the process is stretched out and life in prison is not a day in the beach. >> the problem with the moral argument has been an eye for an eye is the standard. an eye for an eye in the biblical meaning has nothing to do with this. it has to do with commercial situations. that's never been a legitimate comparison comparison. i disagree with what william said with respect to the standards who he says we're not proven to be innocent over the past 50 years. that's just wrong. if you look at the standard used in a criminal case to convict somebody and put them to death. when you have dna evidence that makes it very clear that was not the person they thought that it was. are you going to tell me a jury with the obligation they have to convict somebody in that kind of a case beyond a shadow of a doubt would have convicted them? no. of course not. so i appreciate he can make his argument, although i disagree with it. but he ought to do it more
honestly. because we know that there have been people put to death who shouldn't have been. >> i want to give you a word here on the politics of this. we show the polling is still majority support. 56% say they support it but that's way down it was a couple of years ago. we're seeing nebraska turn on this. do you see a trend with republicans who have been the core supporter for the death penalty? certainly democrats supported it to too. >> you do see that particularly with evangelical christians. when you have more of them in power you'll see this. in addition to people who are innocent to having the death penalty. i think how the death penalty has been administered is also problematic. look what happened in oklahoma it was horrible. so that's also not the safety -- that's the wrong word for it. how this is being implemented is problematic right now. >> again, it's -- there's two
ways to look at the numbers a majority still support it. it's true. at the same time it is down from 20 years ago. we'll see how this plays out in the near future. appreciate the time. and still ahead we're going to go live to baltimore where we're anticipating a presidential announcement from former maryland governor martin o'malley. next he beat mitt romney back in 2012 will rick santorum be able to repeat that success this time around. , i love game night. ooh, it's a house and a car! so far, you're horrible at this, flo. yeah, no talent for drawing, flo. house! car! oh, raise the roof! no one? remember when we used to raise the roof, diane? oh, quiet, richard i'm trying to make sense of flo's terrible drawing. i'll draw the pants off that thing. oh, oh, hats on hamburgers! dancing! drive-in movie theater! home and auto. lamp! squares. stupid, dumb. lines. [ alarm rings ] no! home and auto bundle from progressive. saves you money. yay, game night, so much fun. i knew instantly that this was...wow! it's crest hd.
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positioning himself as the conservative alternative to romney. and now the surprise underdog of the 2012 campaign is giving it another run. he's once again the underdog. >> i like to be an underdog. four years ago, well no one gave us much of a chance. but we won 11 states. [ applause ] >> we got four million votes. and it's not just because i stood for something. it's because i stood for someone. the american worker. [ applause ] >> as rick santorum runs again he still has his social conservative records. he has victories in 11 states in 2012. he has the backing of a billionaire who backed him in
2012. what he needs to rebuild is popular support. santorum is polling in the single digits, the very low single digits among republicans in a much more crowded field than he faced back in 2012. how can he do it? how can he become a contender again? we have a senior strategist at santorum for president. he joins us from washington, d.c. let me start with this we have seen the rules put out for the first republican presidential debate in august how they are going to pair the field down to ten candidates who get to stand on the stage, and get all that exposure by that criteria rick santorum would not be in the top ten and on that stage. can you run a viable campaign if you're not getting in the debate? >> i think the first thing is to be in the debate. i have to say there are a few people who are scratching their heads by someone arbitrarily picking the number ten. i think the truth of the matter is -- you mentioned this -- this
race for president is much different than the last time. there are probably 12 or 13 highly viable candidates on the republican side. i would think we as a party would love to celebrate that by putting as many people on stage as one time. the second thing is we saw it last time that until we got to the debate stage, you didn't know who the players were and how they were going to ultimately do. at one time, herman cain was in the lead another time michelle bachmann rick perry and almost none of them ended up getting past iowa. it's so early and so fluid. i saw another poll this week which had the front runners only at about 10%. they're all bunched up and within strikericing defendant's exhibits -- distance. >> you see your strategy is to get that number up to get into the top ten to make the debate.
what is the strategy. how do you approach this? you've got six weeks to turn this thing around. >> rick santorum wasn't a candidate until a couple days ago. you got to remember another thing. he's not in the senate or governor. he doesn't have a tv show his last name is not bush. his campaign started three days ago when he announced he was running for president. what the polls don't measure are engagement of support. rick santorum last time won because of all the volunteers he has. he ended up building up more than $300,000 mall dollar contributors. the reason he's an underdog is because he represents the underdogs. >> you know, he mentioned standing up for the little guy. he's talked about with being an increase of some sort of the minimum wage. that separates him from a lot of the other candidates. is there going to be a kind of
the change in the message or focus, the focus may be on the economic issues where he disagrees with conservative orthodoxy, is that something we're going to see? >> his entire career has never been shy in pointing out among his own party when he thinks there's a problem. after he became united states senator he took on his own party when the head of the finance committee was against the balanced budget amendment. rick santorum called on him to be thrown off of that. you know rick also in his speech the other day said it was outrageous that we can support, you know bailouts for wall street millionaires but we can't afford a one dollars raise in the minimum wage. somebody has to stand up and give a voice to working families. that's going to be a big part of what his campaign is going to be about. >> pardon me if this sounds too cynical. i hear this from a lot of
republicans as i call around trying to take their temperature on where this race stands. when i ask about santorum i say i can't believe this guy may not be in the debates. what i heard back he doesn't have base. what happened in 2012 was he was at zero the whole way and then the republican party, the portion of the republican party that didn't want to go with romney needed someone and there was no one else left and they checked off santorum's name. what do you say to that? >> they did have other options, rick pareerry -- >> they're saying that newt gingrich imploded perry imploded. >> there's a reason rick santorum didn't implode. he served four years nftin the house and 12 years in the senate. he's the only one that's running for president that reformed a program like welfare where rick santorum went in there and changed the entire program and
was considered one of the most successful pieces of legislation. so did bill clinton. when did those two ever agree. rick santorum has a strong history on fighting all the terrorist activities that have gone on. he's the only one that served on armed services for eight years and has written significant foreign policy against iran and syria. the reason he didn't implode like the others there is actually there, there. there is a vision for america. that's why he'll do well again this time. >> we are blessed with having a former national committee chairman on the set. the whole idea on the debate dilemma was the rnc wanted to take control rkts limit the number of debates, these are the rules what would -- >> okay. so if i were doing this right now, what i would do would be very simple. i would say to the candidates that are announced for
president -- look despite the fact that people want to make fun of this group and call them all kinds of names, and you know harken back to clown car and all this silly stuff, this is a substantive group of individuals who are running for the presidency. they should be given every opportunity to allow the voice of rick santorum and others to emanate and move. what i liked about 2012 that a lot of people didn't was the process exposed a message. the process didn't rely on the big money to determine the outcome necessarily. so when we change -- made the changes we did, rick santorum was one of the beneficiaries of that. when you go now to the process where you're going to try to shorten it and control it the result is you're going to say to seven or eight other people who are governors and senators and businesswoman, potentially carly fiorina would not be on the stage, that you can't be on
the stage. your message is not sufficient enough. i think that's going to be a bigger problem for the party. what i would do two nights everybody will draw straws and divide the 16 people over two nights. at least for that first debate. give them the opportunity to talk to the party and to talk to the country. and allow that voice to resonate. >> we'll see if there's movement on that. we're about two months away from the first debate. we're see if these rules are final. thank you for joining us appreciate that. still ahead, marilyn mosby's early appearance on a courtroom, a courtroom before a judge you might not expect. the most important name in republican politics you've never heard of. stay with us. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh!
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people like energy executives charles and david koch or the former owner of the philadelphia eagles. there is one person you've probably not given much consideration to. miriam adelson, as in the wife of sheldon adelson the man who single handedly kept the gingrich party afloat. this is according to a new piece from buzz feed. for those competing for cash, she's just as important as her husband. they make their giving decisions together. when sheldon adelson meets with people, she is there. while there have been reports that marco rubio is the early favorite in the so-called
adelson primary. buzz feed reports that she is also partial to ted cruz. what does this mean for the race for the republican nomination? joining us we have buzzfeed politics reporter rosy gray joins us with the panel. these are really interesting stories to me because we're living in this era where individuals, if they're worth billions of dollars hold sway over politics like we've never seen before. you get into the family relationships, the social networks they build. here we have a case where there is so much attention on sheldon adelson. but then it turns out his wife -- give us a read on miriam adelson. >> she basically shares his ideology, especially on foreign policy. some people think she's more conservative than sheldon is. she's thought to be the main driver behind their decision last time to give a lot of money to newt gingrich.
she's obviously a much quieter person. >> is she deciding -- a lot of people looked at gingrich was it something personal did he cultivate with the adelsons where does that come from? >> he ticked their boxes in terms of israel stuff and he had a good relationship as well. >> in terms of the 2016 race all the reporting says marco rubio. ken vogel said his reporting is sheldon adelson called mitt romney and said, hey, you should run in 2016. this guy who sheldon adelson steam rolled in 2012 wanted him to run. where do you think they are? >> they're still officially uncommitted. apparently he likes rubio a lot. he's been featured several times
on their newspaper in israel that they own. what i'm hearing is miriam is becoming very partial to ted cruz. apparently he impressed her at the republican jewish coalition conference last month in las vegas. i also witnessed sheldon giving a standing ovation to ted cruz at a gala in new york. >> this is an interesting dilemma. so in 2012 a lot of people looked at all that money that was going to gingrich saying he's not backing a winner. a lot of people might look at the dilemma between cruz and rubo, saying rubio has got the electability that ted cruz doesn't. >> i don't think -- of course they want this person elected. when you have as much money as the adelsons, do, why not? if you really like that horse, why not back it till the end. >> did we reach a point there is
blowback to this in terms of broader electorate. if they know a candidate is being bank rolled by one very very rich backer do you think that we reach a point where people look at that and say, you know what i'm not comfortable with that. >> it depends on the candidate i think. there are some candidates that will take front and center. if they were to put this money behind ted cruz that's a big story that people could react negatively or positively to. with marco rubio, it feels like it gets a different reaction. now it starts to feel like they're interested in backing a wenner because i think winner has a better shot to be a winner than cruz. >> i hope so in answer to your question that the american public does come down hard on this. i think all this money and when i was chairman brought a lawsuit, which unfortunately was not accepted by the supreme court which did accept citizens united instead of my lawsuit would put this money back into
the national party and the state parties where it belongs and not in the hands of small, individual groups through superpacs to control the process. it is a question of transparency, it is a question of legitimacy. i think after this election the american people will have their fill. it is not good for the process. it raises question and concerns that people have about what kind of candidate are we really getting when their interest is so narrowly tailored and focused because you put $600 million in my campaign. >> we're still living in this world, are theeds republican candidates that want to have the support of sheldon adelson, what is the single most important thing they can do to get his wife on their side? >> they have to impress them on israel. you have to support the policies that they support. you can't really express any
sort of you know hammering over the occupation. so jeb bush's involvement with jake james baker, that put him out of the running with adelson. stuff like that is sort of a don't. >> number one issue, then it's israel. the more hawkish the better on israel. buzzfeed's rosy greatay, thank you for stopping by. the next big date on the calendar for tom brady. hillary clinton trying to position herself as the champion of every day americans, does her wealth make her seem out of touch. that's next.
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emphasizing what are thought to be priorities for the average working class voter. higher minimum wage big banks that shouldn't be quite so big and a middle class that means something get. these are the themes she is stressing. hillary and bill clinton pulling in $25 million in paid speeches just since the beginning of 2014. last year. while being wealthy isn't necessarily an issue for politicians, there was a report from the associated press this week revealing that bill clinton created a shell company to receive income for his consulting work. hillary clinton is trying to position herself as the champion of every day americans. is she having a mitt romney problem? >> $10,000 bet? >> i'm not in the betting business. >> oh, okay. let's talk about this with the panel.
the mitt romney problem. all the money that the clintons have brought in now you have the term shell company being associated with hillary clinton. what make as mitt romney problem a mitt romney problem. >> you need to be able to explain your wealth and just tell the american people how you made your money. she hasn't been able to do that yet. >> bill said we had to pay the bills. >> when you say things like that it's ludicrous. they have so much money. it's dead broke, right? no one understands that. because, you know you leave the white house, you're going to be okay. you have a way to make money. you're not worried about paying the water bill. it's a disconnect with you know, normal every day people who actually do have these worries and just look at the clintons what are you talking about? >> what do you think of that? on the one hand the range of wealth among politicians is probably pretty vast. there is some that are worth hundreds of millions billions there are some worth a mere
million dollars. to the average voter everybody politician is in the class where we figure they don't have anything to worry about. >> it didn't hurt john f. kennedy kennedy. but for some of those dumb answers,b you have to learn how to talk about t. what does great on me is this new meme that he's got a shell corporation and there is something wrong with it. it's a loanout company. i have one. they loan out his services. >> he's got a mitt romney problem. >> many people have loan out companies. there's nothing -- forget that it's completely legal. it's completely usable and sensible. a lot of this stuff -- it's working, by the way. it's working. they're turning the clinton foundation into looking like a criminal enterprise, which it's not. all of the stuff is working
because the clintons are not defending it very well and they're saying silly things like we need to pay the bills. >> do republicans -- they look back at 2012 and -- started calling them wealth gaffs that mitt romney would commit. we played a couple there where he would talking about it. he loved sports because of his friendships with the owners. things they might be innocent comments but might be read the wrong way by people. do republicans think they can do that same thing with the clintons? >> they've been doing it since she was secretary of state and beyond. the narrative out of the gop on hillary is long-standing. and it goes back to her days in the white house as first lady. so there's a lot to pull from. i think to rick's point, they do the clintons do a wonderful job contributing to that narrative. and a lot of stuff that is just really commonplace in the course of doing business and setting up various enterprises, they make it look like it's some type of
criminal enterprise or something is going on. because of the secrecy, because of the sort of stealth approach they have where they don't want to let down the blinders or open the blinders and let people see. you have been a public figure for near 40 years now you should know how this goes and how it works and how to address it with the press and the american people. >> how do you -- there's a difference that i see. we talk about like the kennedys or fdr who came from incredible wealth. this is inherited wealth. they're making money off of money. in the clintons' case they're out there bringing in money from big corporations. big speaking fees being paid out by very rich people and corporations. how do you explain that? >> they need to figure that out. i'm not a consultant i'm just a reporter. it's a very tough thing to do. >> it's a former president and
secretary of state,/first lady/senator. it's what the market will bear. that's the economics of it. if they -- reagan made a lot for his speeches. bush doesn't do the speaking thing. either bushes. we'll see what barack obama -- you don't think barack obama is going to going and give speeches for a lot of money when he leaves the white house? sure. it is what the -- >> it's a simple question would you say no to it. >> there you go. there you go. political consulten here. we are going to go live back to baltimore, maryland where martin o'malley will announce his candidacy for president. we'll talk about the top advisor for his campaign about the road
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from baltimore live right here on msnbc. we are there for the event. he joins us again. alex you have a guest there from the o'malley campaign with you. >> that's right. we're just moments away from martin o'malley's announcement. the paperwork has been filed i'm joined by martin o'malley's deputy campaign manager. we're here in baltimore. how is martin o'malley going to carve a space out in this race between hillary clinton and bernie sanders. >> the most important thing is telling his story and what he brings to the race. i think youthe unique thing he brings is strong progressive values and a history oft getting things done. >> what is his position. bernie sanders on the left. hillary clinton moving to the left. can he make a space? >> it's great that bernie sanders is in the race. the more voice in the race is
better. it's important for democrats to have a robust debate. we don't do ourselves any favors by having a coronation. o'malley is the only person who has delivered on the policies democrats care about. comprehensive gun control, marriage equality. he doesn't only talk about things, he's delivered them. >> i -- the one thing i'm getting from that is he's definitely running. i know this was officially just an announcement. it sounds like from liz he is running. we will have that for you in about ten minutes. martin o'malley joining the presidential race. how one of the largest beer companies is helping flood victims in texas and oklahoma. stay with us. eeesign ♪ ♪
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the other headlines making news. this is from baltimore's top prosecutor once made her case to judge judy. marilyn mosby. the state's attorney in baltimore. she made national news for indicting six police officers in the death of freddie gray. she once argued another case in front of a national audience. 15 years ago against a young man who stayed in her apartment over the summer while she was in college. take a look. >> tell me what happened when you first met mr. johnson when he moved in. >> i was at work and received a phone call from the defendant. he got my number from someone i had called locally. i knew someone locally. and they went over and gave him my number. i asked how was my apartment, what was going on? i was told someone was in my apartment. he reassured me that nothing was wrong with my apartment. >> judge judy ruled in favor of marilyn mosby. so she won her first case. just goes to show you when you're watching those daytime courtroom shows, you could be seeing major political stars of the future trying out their --
you know testing their legal chops. let's go to "the l.a. times," tom brady's deflategate su expense appeal will be heard on june 23rd. a few weeks from now brady fighting that four-game suspension handed down by the nfl. reports he was aware the footballs had been tampered with in the afc championship game against the colts. i made it clear where i stand on this. i hope he's completely exonerated. i expect an apology from the nfl and all order will be restored. >> he has to play for the browns or the jets. i'm just saying -- >> new york fans have a lifetime of brady. >> i'm used to it. nbc news here's another one. speaking of products. anheuser-busch stops making beer so it can can water for flooding victims. the beermaker stopped production at its georgia brewery to produce 50,000 cans of water for the american red cross. you were hearing about it earlier in the show the
flooding. >> great call. >> nice move from them. another one. the pile of stuff i have. the huffington post john stamos confirms that bob saget is joining the "full house" reboot. saget will reprise his role as danny tanner. the show called "fuller house" has 13 episodes. >> you can't have "full house" without -- >> i will sleep well tonight. >> what about the olsen twins are out. how do you have "fuller house" without fuller olsen twins. >> of course, i was a "full house" fan. of course. i for one am very excited. >> i was such a tgif fan, i could remember family matters before there was an urkel. the five episodes before that. we got one more we can pull out here. interesting pictures. nbc news. manhattan-hen j. it is to be seen this weekend.
the sunsets in exact alignment with manhattan street grid. the folks compiled some of the best photos. this is happening this week. the sun is right in align wrnt where it comes right between the buildings. you get these amazing pictures. neal degrass tyson posted pictures of an amazing sunset. this is neal degrass tyson. if you miss that last night, you can check it out. come in at 8:12 p.m. tonight and you can check that out. one more thing we want to mention here before we go if i can find the right -- i'm going to organize this better in the future. here it is. in the family here at nbc universal. richard engel, the nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent making a little news of his own. marrying his longtime girlfriend mary forest last night. we want to say congratulations. you can see richard engel tweeting this out. so happy.
just got married. >> very cool. >> welcome to him. >> congratulations on that richard engel. and thank you, my panel, for today. rick unger, appreciate you all being here. thank you for getting up with us this morning. join us tomorrow sunday at 8:00 a.m. when courtroom artist will be here. he covers the supreme court. just got done with the boston marathon trial. tomorrow he'll be here sketching us and showing us the tricks of the trade. plus senator of minnesota will be here for a rare sunday night session in the senate. provisions of the patriot act set to expire tomorrow. watch melissa harris-perry. she's coming up next. have a great saturday. like the poster child for paying on time. and then one day you tap the bumper of a station wagon. no big deal... until your insurance company jacks up your rates. you freak out. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? hey insurance companies, news flash. nobody's perfect.
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largest family reunion. but first, the ever-growing class of 2016. good morning, i'm melissa harris perry. momentarily now in baltimore, the former governor of maryland martin o'malley is expected to take the stage and declare his intention to seek the democratic nomination for president. o'malley, who is also a former mayor of baltimore, will be the second democrat this week to announce that he is taking on front-runner hillary clinton. the other candidate being vermont senator bernie sanders, who officially kicked off his campaign on tuesday. now, both o'malley and sanders have their work cut out for them. a quinnipiac poll released thursday shows clinton with a huge lead at 57%. compared to 15% for senator sanders and 1% for o'malley. it's a far cry from the republican s