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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  July 31, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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cling to the past. sometimes things that we change die hard but let us cling to the new birth of a new day and not be distracted by old ideas that are dying out. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. the circus is coming. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. headed next week to cleveland. that's right after beakweeks of preview, the candidates on the republican side jammed together next thursday. the prize, a big headstart on the road to iowa with all the tv cameras following the guy who wins big. donald trump is the champ heading in. there's no denying it. say what you will about the
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polls, they're powerfully consistent. they all show the new york tycoon grabbing something in the air and talking back with all the gusto of a boardwalk pitch man. he sells himself to lead the country. question of the week -- how do you beat him? or maybe more important, how do you survive the night itself? candidates in heavy prep. while they're not eager to tangle with trump they're all preparing for an encounter. rand paul will spar with a trump stand in adviser rex elsass who is playing the billionaire in a practice session this week. he's like a rattlesnake with a toothache. he's the worst kind of guy because you have no idea who he's going to go after. eugene robinson writes i feel like a kid the week before christmas. there's just one present under the tree. but the first republican debate.
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how could thursday night in cleveland fail to be one of the most entertaining political spectacles we've seen in a long time? i'm joined by eugene robinson beth foley and robert costa. i have to start with you, gene the giddiness, the excitement. because it's going to be two hours of we don't know bedlam? everybody will be looking right at trump. >> usually we have an idea what's going to happen. we don't know. we don't know what's going to happen. we don't know how trump is going to play this. we don't know what the other candidates are going to do. are they going to go after him, pretend he's not there. >> is this going to be like edi and qusay? they go in a restaurant and nobody looks around. >> i check in with every one of these campaigns. they don't want to win this debate. they want to survive the debate.
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this is only the first of nine. they want to get through it and hope that trump fizzles. >> but it's the first. >> i think of the tv production aspect of this. roger ails who runs fox gets all the kudos. like one of those studio 54 things. just getting in is cool. my question, you got megan kelly out there, one of the top people in the business she's going to be asking tough questions. they've got to prove their stuff, too, at fox. a battle between meghan and donald. i think through the drama like roger has thought through it how many times by now. >> that will be the goal to deliver a really great show. in jeb bush's case my guess is that he's the actual sort of enduring front-runner as opposed to the solid in your face donald trump front-runner that we have now. jeb bush's goal for this whole debate is to get through it looking like a grown-up.
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he doesn't want to get pulled into the whole trump madness. he'll continue steady as he goes. this whole trump experience has been fantastic for jeb. he has looked presidential. he's looked like the grown-up. he's out there raising a lot of money. he doesn't need a lot of attention on himself right now. >> do you agree he can do the rope-a-dope, take the punches in trump throws them? >> if trump throws a punch, maybe you can slip it. if meghan kelly throws a punch, it won't be just at trump. she'll ask him about immigration. she's going to press him on a lot of things. >> a whole list of quotes. the moderator and chris wallace and the other, they have in front of them every quote these guys have ever said. they've got a tremendous xylophone they can play. just hit this note put it up on the screen like tim russert used to do. put it up on the screen. defend that, buddy. tough stuff. >> you can't just play rope-a-dope.
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if you think you'll sit back and let the donald show happen, that's not the best strategy. they say watch, trump may play nice. >> that's what i think. here's what i thought would surprise everybody. >> they say if he has a window, he's going to unveil his tax plan and -- >> lower taxes for the average guy. >> lower taxes. and he'll try to sound reaganag reaganesque. >> i heard he's getting a crew cut. just kidding. we can see a lot more comments like these. respond to these, beth. here they come. >> this deal goes through, the obama administration will become quite literally the world's leading financier of radical islamic terrorism. >> this president's foreign policy is the most feckless in american history. he's so naive he would trust the iranians and he would take the
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israelis and basically march them to the door of the oven. >> the iranian regime and the world should know that this deal is your deal with iran. i mean yours meaning this administration. and the next president is under no legal and moral obligation to live up to it. >> i've been told that he said we're living in a gestapo age. what do you mean by that? >> i mean very much like nazi germany. i know you're not supposed to say nazi germany, but i don't care about political correctness. >> beth, i don't understand. i never understood the doctor doing so well in these polls because nobody really thinks of him running for president, exactly. but he is signaling some kind of message. they are all contempt for government, for obama, for hillary, for everything that works or doesn't work in washington. and i don't know. you say bush is going to end up being the favorite. i just wonder with a party so steaming with contempt would go back to the establishment after all these debates. >> but let's go back to the debate we're facing next week.
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they can all come out there and trash obama, which, of course they will but that's sort of just par for the course at this point with these folks. none of them will stand out if they do that. somebody on the debate stage needs to stand out in a positive way. take the spotlight back off of trump. marco rubio needs the spotlight back on him. he's been out of it for a long time. he's losing his status as one of the top tier candidates i think. >> what do you think? >> some people are beginning to fade. >> one other candidate who really has a lot to gain or lose in this is scott walker. he in a lot of these polls, it's trump and bush and walker. they're the first tier. is scott walker ready for prime time. and does meghan kelly press him on foreign policy, for example, in which he's fairly naive. >> or will she get him to defend extending medicare to higher income brackets above the poverty line which will turn off the rest of that crowd out
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there. >> everyone watching this debate closely. >> a lot of liberals. >> but if you're running for president, the donors are watching closely. >> you know why they're watching it? no knock on hillary. she's the front-runner but she's not a great show. the greatest show is on the republican side. plikt activists are political junkies. >> she'll be watching closely. when you talk to every republican campaign they have a donald strategy and also a clinton strategy. >> she won't be sitting with people laughing at republicans. that's the worst message. there's something there that she better pay attention to. something about contempt of government anger, that's real. let me take a look at this. any other candidates go after bush. ted cruz he went after bush on a radio interview. so he's going after jeb here. let's watch that. >> in the past couple of weeks
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we've seen mitt romney and jeb bush, both of them talking about, now, take it easy guys. you don't really need to oppose this iranian nuclear deal quite so forcefully. when you send billions of dollars to jihadists trying to kill american you bear responsibility for the murder that thissy carry out with the money you have given them. and you know one of the reasons republicans keep getting clobbered is we have leaders like mitt romney and like jeb bush who are afraid to say that. >> what is this contempt not just for our government but this virulent hatred of the -- not the islamic -- the islamic world, i should say. they sound like they want to feed the fire of an east/west war, which all out, cristhristians and jews against muslims. they don't think about the extent of the islamic world. and they want to go to war with
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that world. that's the way they talk. it's not isolating isil. they seem to want to take on islam. is that some sort of evangelical thing that works in some big churches? >> i think it's politics. >> why do they want to hate an entire part of the world. >> if you talk about the incendiary commentary coming from ted cruz the hard right of the gop agrees across the board on the policy on iran. >> that's what the saddam hussein -- that's what osama bin laden dearly wanted to happen. >> it's what isil wants. >> a conflagration east versus west. that's what they want. all the islamic people to fight us. >> chris if you look at polling, there's absolutely no support -- well not no but very little support for invading another islamic country. >> well what's he selling? so what are they selling? >> that's what's so puzzling. they're selling this ajijation and anger and contempt. but does that translate into a
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policy position of going in invading occupying another islamic country. there's very little support for that even among republicans. >> well said. that was very well said. so you never get to the bottom line. so what are you going to do? the x factor is maybe the audience out there. such as booing a gay soldier or cheering putting people to death. watch some of these right-wing audiences in action. >> in 2010 when i was deployed to iraq i had to lie about who i was because i'm a gay soldier. and i didn't want to lose my job. my question is under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress that's been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military. >> your state has executed 234 death row inmates, more than any other governor in modern times. have you struggled to sleep at night? >> well there's the -- they talk about wanting to kill the
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enemy. they want to kill now. >> these debates are all about moments. you got to be listening when you're on the stage because you may only have an opportunity to respond to the crowd. >> this is what turns people off on television to watch these debates. it's all men this time because fiorina didn't make this cut. they'll come with their lunch bucket with two or three lines they've worked out. everyone will know these bicentennial moments are coming. if i were trump i'd say you must have worked really hard on that one. but they don't ruin it because meghan should say something or chris wallace, did you memorize that? >> i wouldn't be surprised if meghan goes after them. she's going to want to make the moments. >> i think roger wants her to make the moments. a great production. >> she won't want the audience to make the moment. she's going to want the make the moment. >> you can't sound like a robot. trump will overwhelm you because he's not sounding like a robot. >> but they are robots!
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>> chris, yeah another challenge for them of course if you think about it is even though they've culled the list down to 10 from the 17 candidates who are running, 10 is a heck of a lot of people to have on stage at once. they'll have such a small window of time to generate that moment. >> will the word "trump" appear in the headline on ap and the major newspapers the next morning? >> yes. >> of course. >> a hundred percent. >> i think we've figured or cased this one out. thank you, eugene robinson. robert costa doing a hell of a job covering this campaign. beth fouhy. great to have you on. coming up donald trump versus the world. we've got the best attack lines from trump and his rivals as the republican field gets ready to confront him. we're seeing major fireworks out there. we can expect plenty more from next week's debate.
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it's coming thursday. we'll be there. voting rights are on trial. and hillary clinton hits the republican rivals for their party's efforts to keep minorities for the polls. good for her. later with the roundtable more from that focus group of donald trump's supporters up in new hampshire. what is it about this guy that grabs them so? finally let me finish with a warning to those debating donald trump next week -- be careful. this is "hardball." a place for politics. song: rachel platten "fight song" ♪ two million, four hundred thirty-four thousand three hundred eleven people in this city. and only one me. ♪ i'll take those odds. ♪ be unstoppable. the all-new 2015 ford edge.
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doers. they don't worry if something's possible. they just do it. at sears optical, we're committed to bringing them eyewear that works as hard as they do. right now, buy one pair and get another free. quality eyewear for doers. sears optical put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. it's a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. planters. nutrition starts with nut. in miami today, hillary clinton challenged the republican leadership in congress to end the cuban embargo. and called out republican presidential candidates who have taken a hard line against the u.s. and cuba normalizing relations. >> even many republicans on capitol hill are starting to recognize the urgency of moving forward. it's time for their leaders to
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either get on board or get out of the way. the cuba embargo needs to go once and for all. unfortunately, most of the republican candidates for president would play right into the hard-liners' hands. they have it backwards. engagement is not a gift to the castros. it's a threat to the castros. an american embassy in havana isn't a concession. it's a beacon. >> we'll be right back. citi history matter to you? well, because it tells us something powerful about progress: that whether times are good or bad, innovators with great ideas will continue to drive the world forward. as log as they have someone to believe in them. for more than two centuries we've helped progress makers turn their ideas into reality. and the next great idea could be yours.
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♪ whoa what are you doing? putting on a movie. i'm trying to watch the game here. look i need this right now ok? come on i don't want to watch that. too bad this is happening. fine, what if i just put up the x1 sports app right here. ah jeez it's so close. he just loves her so much. do it. come on. do it. come on! yes! awww, yes! that is what i'm talking about. baby. call and upgrade to get x1 today. ♪ welcome back. the hottest story in american politics right now. donald trump has the hot hand heading into next week's big debate. next thursday night will be on with a special two-hour edition of "hardball" live from cleveland. and back at 11:00 with another
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show to break it all down and show you who landed the biggest blows. if the last month is any indication of what's in store for us next thursday we're in for a treat. trump is playing demolition derby with the republican field. call it the trump dump because if you attack him, he's coming for you. here's just a taste of the chaos, the attack the counterattacks and the evasive maneuvers heading into the debates. roll the tape. >> he's a jackass. >> what a stiff. what a stiff. lindsey graham. by the way, he's registered zero in the polls. zero. >> have you no sense of decency, sir? >> you put glasses on so people will think he's smart. and it just doesn't work. you know people can see through the glasses. rick perry should have to have an iq test before getting on the debate stage. >> i don't think that the way his behavior the last few weeks is dignified or worthy of the office he seeks. >> what do you think of marco rubio? >> i think he's highly
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overrated. >> if we don't break this language of divisiveness, we'll never win. >> how the hell can you vote for this guy? you just can't do it. this guy can't negotiate his way out of a paper bag. >> donald trump can speak for himself. the other day when he went after me specifically, hey, he can speak for himself. >> oh, finally i can attack. finally. wisconsin's doing terribly. the roads are a disaster. the schools are a disaster. the hospitals and education is a disaster. he was totally in favor of common core. >> if the goal here is to find the person to be president of the united states who can get the most attention, he's going to win hands down. >> i told this to chris and his people, he missed his time. >> i like to honor reagan's 11th commandment of not attacking fellow republicans. >> they almost took down the world. he was a managing partner. i think he's a nice man. i don't know. but i know if you're the
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managing partner of lehman brothers, you're not looking too good. >> this is the dumbest way in the world to pick a voice on who is best qualified to be president. >> dana milbank's an opinion write wer "the washington post" and liz marist. i've been covering politics longer than you. and i just laugh. there's something truly outrageous about trump. yet it doesn't hurt anybody but the other guy and almost all of it's true. it just happens to be true these assaults on other guys. >> love donald trump, hate donald trump. you have to admit this guy is a political genius. >> why does truth hurt the other guys but the public wants to hear that hurt? they want to hear that punch. >> he games the system. he started out as a liberal. i got the pick on the following issues and i got to be savage. >> you're just like him now. gesturing, the arms are nighing. every time he says something,
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it's like this. >> or like this right. >> so everybody did think that about rick perry. he's wearing glasses to look more intelligent. we all knew. and he's the first guy to say the obvious. >> that's not what i personally thought. >> what did you think? >> because he had a vision problem. >> why on tv? you don't have to see anything on tv. i do it every night. >> i don't wear glasses. >> you don't wear glasses for show. a lot of people wear glasses like jack kennedy never wore them on television. because you don't need them on tv. >> i have no way of knowing that. i'll have to take your word for it. but in any event he's landing a lot of fun punchlines that appeal to a lot of people even if they like some of these other candidates. people generally don't like politicians and he's positioned himself as an anti-politician. >> do you attack him or wait for him to attack you or counterattack the people who root for you, which way? >> i would probably attack him first and i would focus on his
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support for canadian style health care system. >> so accuse him of being a lefty. >> but that specifically, not all the other things right. >> pro choice even though he said it once. >> right. if you look at that focus group that was done of new hampshire voters, that was the thing that people didn't know about and when they heard about, they were like ah that's not good. especially because he's also criticized obamacare. people are like wait you're for obama care but you're for like some sort of socialized medical system. i would say go with that specifically. since he'll probably hit these guys preemptively on illegal immigration, just be ready to go there with his employment of unauthorized immigrants. >> call him a hypocrite. >> that's something that will damage him with his core audience audience. >> just attacking donald trump is generally a recipe for failure because he's so -- >> he's a boomerang. >> i do think with perry it's been benefiting him a little bit.
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but with lindsey graham i don't know what that's doing for him. >> they're all flat-footed. they make their punch, then stand there like flat foot. >> they look so earnest and he looks funny and real. he's like me although he's not like anybody in the world except for the donald. so i think you're right. you do attack him but you attack him as a left winger. there's plenty of room to do that. >> because people will believe a guy who lives in new york and makes a lot of money is a liberal. >> an entirely different position on immigration. >> although a lot of the attacks people have been trying to lob against him about donations for democrats like palling around with hillary clinton, that stuff doesn't seem to be sticking with voters. >> i was at the wedding. rand paul is now suiting up for a battle with trump. rand paul last night attributed trump's rise to a temporary loss of sanity. let's watch him. >> why is he doing so well right now, donald trump?
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>> television works wolf. if you would give some other candidates time from 8:00 in the morning till 8:00 at night all day long every day for three weeks i'm guessing some other candidates might rise as well. this is a temporary sort of loss of sanity but we're going to come back to our senses and look for somebody serious to lead the country. >> do you think the people supporting donald trump have a loss of sanity? >> no i think what they are, is they're hungry for somebody who will tell the truth. >> yeah that kind of whining won't work with the public. gee whiz he's getting all the press. >> it makes it sound like he's doing my job here and being the strategist and the analyst instead of being rand paul who is the dude leading the 13-hour filibusters and going to war with anyone who infringes on civil policies. that's unfortunate one of the reasons why we've seen a slide
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the civil liberties issue isn't as dominant as it was previously and he doesn't have a lot to sort of grip it with. >> i asked all the producers here who are smart people who has a better chance of being president than donald trump in the republican top ten? and most people come up with jeb has a better chance rubio has a better chance walker has a better chance and maybe kasich. six or seven of the guys on that stage with him have a lesser chance than he does. >> right. that doesn't even include the -- >> does he attack up or attack down? the rule in politics is always attack up. you look better. does he hit the top front-runners or the little guys too? >> does donald trump? >> yes. >> i don't thing of him being discerning. it's a blunderbuss. he's firing in every direction. >> i'm not sure there's a strategy there. >> how many people like it when you attack up. >> he's the id of the republican party. >> who is the superego?
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>> that would be jeb. >> that's his problem. he's the older brother. up next voting rights on trial in north carolina. and hillary clinton calls out her gop counterparts for supporting right-wing efforts to block the black vote the minority vote. this is "hardball," the place for politics. and you're talking to a rheumatologist about a biologic this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me reach for more. doctors have been prescribing humira for more than 10 years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contrubutes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma have happened, as have blood liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas
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or any symptoms of an allergic reaction stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. insurance coverage has expanded nationally and you may now be covered. contact your health plan for the latest information. welcome back. several of the 2016 presidential candidates campaigned at the national urban league's convention down in ft. lauderdale today. former secretary of state hillary clinton told the largely african-american crowd that they need to fight to make their votes count. >> political operatives are trying every trick in the book to prevent african-americans from voting. >> she took a swipe at jeb bush and his right to rise super pac. >> too often we see a mismatch between what some candidates say
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in venues like this and what they actually do when they're elected. and you cannot seriously talk about the right to rise and support laws that deny the right to vote. >> also today a federal judge heard final arguments in the case brought by the department of justice and voting rights advocates to rescind north carolina's laws designed to block broad access to the ballot box, laws that roughly cut in half the number of early voting days and requiring voters to register 20 days in advance rather than on election day. the former obama polster. this thing that all this seems to have started since obama carried north carolina. a southern state voted for obama. so let's fix that. all of a sudden we're hearing about voter i.d. laws and no more to the polls.
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>> my southern state, virginia is still in the south although they keep trying to move it out of the south. where you see where the african-american vote is having the most impact is in those traditional southern places. not surprising that the moment the voting rights act was voted back, they start doing the things that the voting rights act was put in place to stop them from doing. making it harder for minorities and poor people from going to the polls. >> this is what jim crow was about. everything was about preventing blacks from any more -- like they held office make sure they couldn't hold it again. >> there's always been an old saying blacks and whites could always get along in the south. blacks just couldn't have power. and when blacks tried to get power, that's when the trouble started. and when you see state after state here now making it harder for minorities to vote you
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understand the demographic changes that are going on in america and barack obama to a certain extent is a sea change moment in american history because all of a sudden that reagan coalition that controlled the white house for all those years, we saw mitt romney runp the score and actually get more votes than reagan and romney was a horrible candidate. you saw that new voter, that younger, browner vote turn out in droves and elect someone na the vast majority of the white vote decided they did not want. >> i'm look at something here. we were down to north carolina last year. and we noticed something was going on. even when the right wing isn't able to get through these provisions making it harder for black people to vote there was a fear among the people. that's why they put up a sign get out there. you won't need an i.d. this time because people were afraid the news was saying it would be much tougher to vote. so it worked. >> intimidation has always been
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a part of politics in lots of parts of this country, particularly in the south. people would say the lynching you saw going on was intimidation and part of politics. what's interesting about it is when we tested some of this stuff in 2012 we saw a certain cohort of the african-american electorate actually get more by trying to block it. but this north carolina case also shows that where some african-americans actually did get disenfranchised because of these laws. when you win a state or lose a state by a couple thousand points a couple hundred points it makes it a big deal. >> by the way, your dad's very smart. the difference between northern and southern prejudice of african-americans were different than the north. both are pretty bad. up next we'll hear more from those -- by the way, both are going away i think, some day.
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new hampshire focus groups about donald trump's candidacy are something to listen to including one who says he'll vote for trump if he runs as an independent even if that helps hillary win. in other words, a conservative would rather hillary win so he gets to vote for this guy in the third party. i have type 2 diabetes. i started with pills. and now i take a long-acting insulin at night. i take mine in the morning. i was trying to eat right, stay active. but i wasn't reaching my a1c goal anymore. man: my doctor says diabetes changes over time. it gets harder to control blood sugar spikes
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i'm milissa rehberger. boeing says it's sending a technical team to help analyze the airplane part found on reunion island that's being sent to france for further investigation. a delta pilot attempts to land at jfk's airport reported a close encounter with a drone about 100 feet below that aircraft. the plane with 159 people on board landed without incident. and the coast guard is suspending its search for two teenagers who were seen a week ago. their boat was found on sunday. back to "hardball." i don't think he represents
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the republican party and his views are way out of the mainstream of what republicans think. he's not a stupid guy. so i don't assume he's like -- he thinks that every mexican crossing the border is a rapist. so he's doing this to inflame and to incite. >> that was former florida governor jeb bush talking about the new republican front-runner donald trump. jeb might not thing too much of the brash new york city millionaire, but voters in first presidential primaries in the state of new hampshire do. plumeberg bloomberg conducted a survey on what they find so appealing about trump. here's a bit more of that. >> he doesn't care what people think. he tells the truth, what we need to do. >> like he said i won't be bought off. anybody else i have the money. >> and get washington-itis, which is so many politicians they go to washington and they become completely -- you know they don't work for the constituents any more. >> they also spoke about what
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concerns them about trump. >> potentially he could cross over with some inappropriate comment that's going to turn a large number of people off, and it would very much concern me if at that point he was the nominee. >> in my opinion what hurt romney was his success and his money and that could be trump's downfall as much as it's his asset. it could also be a weakness because of the way people perceive wealth. some see it as success and others as greed. >> yeah, i think he can shoot himself in the foot. >> joining the roundtable right now, michelle bernard, and former virginia congressman tom davis, a republican and martin frost, a democrat. they're the co-authors of a big new book "the partisan divide" which we'll talk about shortly. first, you got to pay for your supper here, guys. tom, you said before we came on the air that you think bush is handling the trump phenomenon correctly now. >> well he is now.
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he started off attacking him. and that's wrong. i think you have to be respectful of the message that he's sending. you want to put distance between how you deliver that at this point. but there's a chunk of voters that sooner or later because trump is so undisciplined or looking for somebody else. if you've been the guy attacking the message, you're out of luck. >> martin? >> trump is appealing to anger. those are the people he's going after. they're mad. they're not sure exactly what they're mad about, but they don't like big business they don't like big labor. and here they are going to support a very wealthy guy. doesn't make a lot of sense on its face but he's tapped into anger in this country. >> just as a political observer how does a party showing so much anger and contempt for the establishment, left right and center, pick jeb bush after all this is over with? how does all this fire lead to that next spring? >> because the question is when does donald trump burn out. >> the anger will still be
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there. why would the anger go to jeb bush who personifies the way things are. >> if you look at some of the things that people raised in the bloomberg interview about what worries them about donald trump, that might lead to a jeb bush. saying the wrong thing. >> oh great. >> but seriously, from the person who is not an elected official, if you're sitting back and you liked chris christie as people did. chris christie has the same problem that donald trump had and the electorate is still angry and it's going to cause other politicians to get smart. but donald trump may not get any smarter. >> i agree with all that. everybody knows this guy can blow up in a day with some terrible comment about somebody. but he hasn't been able to do it yet as hard as he's tried. how can a party that seems to be in love with this wildman out there who is saying everything you hear from these guys they're all a bunch of bum, by the way, except me. >> it's last man standing. >> and they will get out and vote for the guy who is last man
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standing. you remember going to wendy's late at night, nothing else open. why get excited about the last place open at night? >> kasich is a dark horse. >> you may not get excited about it, but at the end of the day he's got the money to sustain it. the delegates to sustain it. the republicans will rally around whoever they nominate. >> do you thing, michellek, michelle? they want to beat hillary? >> and kasich has a good shot at it. >> you're stealing my sun. >> kasich bush and christie i believe have a very good shot at it. >> let me ask you about the rules. trump has set this up almost like ross perot. if the republicans treat me right, then i'll back them in the general election. what does treating him right or wrong mean? >> it's impossible to say. what happens is he suddenly falls off the list then he's been treated wrong. chris has a very interesting
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point. perot's from dallas where i represented, i knew perot. my initial reaction was, well this will happen trump will be like perot. those are the voters he'll get. one of my friends in the black community has been very active. he's not perot, he's george wallace. he's appealing to downscale noncollege educated whites, not necessarily in the racial way that wallace did. >> but somebody has to appeal to them. what's wrong with appealing to them? >> they aren't the majority of the country. >> but they're part of a coalition. >> that's right. they were a part of the democratic party in '68, now they're part of the republican party. you pull that out of the republican party and you elect hillary. >> nixon called them cloth cut republicans. if you lose them you lose a lot of republicans. that's why i guess we started here in the segment which is bush has to be so careful to outlast trump but not to blast him. >> and that's another reason why he might be the last man standing. he is not going to offend
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latinos, african-americans and a whole groups of people. >> i don't give advice to republicans generally but the best republican ticket is a midwestern governor and rubio as president. >> kasich and rubio. >> or walker and rubio. >> i'm a big believer. i've been following ohio since i was 10 or 12 years old. the most fascinating state. >> absolutely. >> it decides elections. if the republicans don't get it they don't win. >> can i put in a word for a republican vpp i like the governor of south carolina. >> and the governor of new mexico. >> these two veterans tell us how to fix the gaping partisan divide. that's a big mouthful. that's coming. i'm gonna crack like nobody's watching and eat like i skipped lunch. why? because red lobster's crabfest is back. and i'm diving into so much crab so many ways.
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seals out more food. ♪ ♪ super poligrip holds your dentures tightly in place. so you never have to hold back. laugh loud. live loud. super poligrip. get strong all day hold. jeb bush sat down with lester holt and lester asked bush if he ever thought he'd be trailing donald trump going into the first debate and what's behind his rise. >> did you ever foresee a scenario that you would be number two to donald trump in the first debate? >> i didn't know where i was going to be. i don't know. this is a long haul. so my focus is on what the world looks like in january coming going into the february caucuses and primaries. i was surprised that donald trump has surged. i think he's captured the deep
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frustration that people feel. i mean i get that. i get the lack of rule of law, the sanctuary cities. the open borders. all those things. he's in a very graphic way, appealed to people's anger about those things. and i think it's important to be respectful of that make the case that we can fix these things and over time the trump phenomena will either succeed or fail based on his proposals. >> i think that guy needs more excitement. behold, these are two wind turbines. can you spot the difference? the wind farm on the right was created using digital models and real world location-based specs that taught it how to follow the wind. so while the ones on the left are waiting the ones on the right are pulling power out of thin air. pretty impressive, huh? now, two things that are exactly the same have have never been more different.
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divide". they write we are appalled by the current state of politics in america. it hasn't always been like this and doesn't have to be in the future. they want to see more bipartisan interaction and less time spent raising money. whatever happened to the poker games, they asked and formal dinners where members of both parties can get to know each other and they say more deals need to be made to get things done in congress with earmarks. >> you proposed snag people say is bad. earmarks had a bad name. it means getting something in a bigger appropriations games. or the big dig in boston. >> these were all good things. somebody earmarks it somewhere along the line. why not congress? the first 100 years of the republican, it was all earmarks.
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>> you have one of special interest to you? >> something that's good for your district. >> tell me how that would improve the system if you brought them back. >> members have skin in the game. you have something in the bill to vote for. every incentive is to vote against it now. >> so you wouldn't have crs. >> you'd pass appropriations. so the congress people the valuable thing is to be able to put something in your newsletter that says this month i was able to win an appropriation for this. >> it's a huge transfer of authority from the legislative branch to the executive branch. they're suing obama over usurping legislation power. >> it was only about 2% of the appropriations that were earmarked. >> let's talk to the progressives and you can jump on this. the congress looks like the house of representatives looks like it's in republican hands for the time as far as we can
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see. >> for this decade. not as far as we can see and it's because the republicans are very smart. they captured a lot of state legislatures and they did it fairly well pennsylvania democrats carry a majority of the vote republicans get 13 of the 18 congressional seats. >> and the democrats get five. even though most people in pennsylvania usually vote democrat. they get five seats. >> you only have five states that do it. they are more competitive. >> what about a primary where everybody gets to run. >> i would consider that too. >> do you like it? >> reloves it. i'm less excited about it. >> it's going to create interesting fights. i get challenged by jimmy panetta in california. you don't know what's going to happen. >> my friend lost off that. >> it didn't work for him very well.
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>> the interesting thing is the fastest growing group is independents. but they're out. >> exdemocrats or exrepublicans? >> both right now. >> both and a lot of african americans are self-identifying as independents. >> they're precluded by law from voting in many states in primaries. you have a narrow part of the electorate determining the nomination. that person wins the general election, people don't talk to each other because they're afraid they're going to be attacked in the primary. >> you cannot lose a general. >> or in the republican district. >> thank you to all of you. please some back and we'll talk more. the book out right now is called "the partisan divide". when we come back let's end with a stern warning about donald trurp. he'll have his very own personal assistant. and this guy won't just surf the web.
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let me finish tonight with a warning to those debating donald trump next week. don't for a minute think he's not onto something. don't ever get the idea that his claim on public sentiment right now is something to be ignored. the public are out there cheering him right now and cannot be ignored. there is a deep contempt out there for the political class's failure to protect this country's interests. say what you will about the reasons for it. but these are the facts. one, we have no enforced method
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for enforcing illegal immigration. people come into this country illegally and no one in the government has proved capable or willing to stop it. two, we are spending huge deficits every year until it now matches the total capacity our entire economy. three, american manufacturing is now on its last legs. we consume. we do not make. not like we did. not like we must. if we are to support a solid and secure work force. meanwhile china is producing and it makes many americans worry. four we face an isis we seem incapable of fight. this is the attitude the american people now share with donald trump. he's doing well because he is talking like the person out there who has no public voice. if the other candidates believe they can show contempt for trump, they should tread carefully.
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it might show they're showing contempt for trump's message and that would show contempt for the people who will decide the next election and they will be listening. that's hardball for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in. >> the officer charged with shooting and killing samuel du bose asks for his job back. then how race and criminal justice are taking center stage in the race for the presidential race. >> real race has to also include restorative justice. >> plus new hitler compare tonisons on the iran deal. as congress heads home for the summer will the iran deal become in t ne

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