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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 31, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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carefully. it might show they're showing contempt for trump's message and that would show contempt for the people who will decide the next election and they will be listening. that's hardball for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in. >> the officer charged with shooting and killing samuel du bose asks for his job back. then how race and criminal justice are taking center stage in the race for the presidential race. >> real race has to also include restorative justice. >> plus new hitler compare tonisons on the iran deal. as congress heads home for the summer will the iran deal become in t new obama care and
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with the first republican debate approaching, a preview of what might be to come. >> as they would say in china -- >> contraception, it's working just fine. >> let's see the third one, i can't. oops. >> all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york. tonight the former university police officer charged with the murder of samuel du bose is asking for his job back. ray tensing who can be seen fatally shooting du bose was fired. his union has filed paperwork calling for the officer who pled not guilty to be reinstated to his position immediately. the report fired by the police charges the former officer was terminated without just cause and denied his due process rights as prescribed by his
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contract. the union is calling for the university of cincinnati to make sure tensing is to be made whole for back pay and sick time and vacation time holidays. the university said it stands by the determination to terminate tensing. they declined to charge the other two officers who arrived at the scene. they are scene corroborating the false statement that he was dragged by the car. that appearance led to calls by the du bose family and lawyer for charges against the other officers. >> one bad cop, you indict the cop. that's happened. two bad cops you may have to indict the department. even if you stopped the murder if you don't stop cops who are willing to cover up you will not address the problem. >> today hamilton county prosecutoring attorney applauded the decision not to charge the officers. when the officers were
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specifically asked about what they saw or heard, their testimony matched the body camera video. joining me now, the attorney for the family of sam du bose. first i'd like to get your reaction to the grievance filing say the due process rights were violated and he should not be fired even though he was indicted for murder. >> i'm presuming that is an appellate right he has to preserve in order to obtain collective bargaining right. if that's the only reason why, okay. i have to tell you some advice to former officer tensing. if he continues with this absolute lack of responsibility lack of acknowledgment of what he did, he needs to be very careful. the criminal justice system looks at acceptance of responsibility as being a
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significant element in things like sentencing. remorse is also very important, and this step is a step in the wrong direction. >> what is the family's reaction as well to the failure to charge the two other officers? you were pretty vocal about that. it appeared at least from the scan that i did of the incident reports files and the video that at least one of the officers said he essentially he saw things to corroborate the account of tensing and it's not clear that he would have possibly seen that given that tensing, it appears in the videotape was not dragged. what's your reaction to the failure to indict? >> well first of all, i truly trust the grand jury's system not just because they indicted tensely but i know they do a good job and they have a lot more information than we yet have. having said that i listened to the tape dozens of times and there's no question that at first blush, one, basically two of the officers seem to
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corroborate or at least offer some support for the statements. you hear tensing, one of his dozen times that he says he was dragged, one of the officers says, yes, i saw that. now, was that some just benefit brother to brother for the moment? maybe so. my real concern and what i addressed yesterday and what the quote that you just mentioned, my real concern is that we have a horrible lack of trust with law enforcement these days because of what's happened over the past three years or so. it's been going on for decades, and even if we indict one officer, but we see evidence that other officers are willing to fudge the truth or more then we're never going to regain the trust that police officers need. i believe that the grand jury listened to more evidence and i trust their decision to not indict but i do hope that officers look at this and look at that tape and say we need to
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stay very far away from that temper of corroboration of an obvious lie. >> you know you talked about some of the things we've seen over the last three years with respect to police shootings. i want to ask you a personal question. a lot of people are going to recognize you on this television set right now as the former lawyer for george zimmerman, a case that in many respects felt like the beginning of the kind of social movement we've grown up around that has grown up around black lives matter. zimmerman is not a police officer. you are now the family attorney for the du bose family. explain that trajectory to me other than the fact that you're a lawyer and you take different clients. >> sure. 33 years of practicing criminal defense. i represent people who are charged with a crime, and because i do that you can look at my pedigree if you will and note that represent just like
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every other co-defense lawyer a disproportion gnat amount of young black men. the day before i represented george zimmerman, if someone looked at that, they would probably applaud the work that i've done generally and consequently on behalf of young black males. i understand that i have been and forever more probably will be tied as the lawyer who represented the guy who shot trevan. in that base i did my best for a client who i represented and in this case and other cases inbetween, i've done the same. i represent a young black guy, passed away now, 21 years old, tazed to death in savannah county jail and the family came to me of the work i did on zimmerman. i represent a black male shawn grant, shot five times by a police officer for stealing a sandwich. i know and the family knew that
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i carried that baggage with me and i've obviously gotten some tweets and response in social media questioning why they would come to me. all i can say is i'm going to do my very best and that same ethic i brought to the zimmerman defense, i'm going to bring to sam and his family. >> did the mark omar ra understand at the moment that that case was happening that it represented some kind of starting point for something bigger socially? i mean are you surprised by where we are now at this point? >> absolutely surprised when i first got the call and said yes and walked outside to 75 reporters staring at me i knew something was up. but something that's passing. we see that on other cases that go book into the darkness. i had no idea that the zimmerman event, the martin shooting was
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going to turn into what it turned into but i'll tell you having been frustrated by the way the system treats certain segments of the population, i'm enthused that beginning with zimmerman and following through the jordan davis case the erik gardener case dozens and dozens of them. i think zimmerman brought it to the fore grant and that those embers got started and the fire has begun and it's not going away. now we're looking at cops the way we should. i respect cops. i would never want to do their job. but if they're going to do their job, they have to do it professionally. they are there to protect us from each other. so, yeah i certainly believe that zimmerman started it and now along the way, every month or two we have another impetus pushing us forward. but i'm hopeful it's going in the right direction and maybe the fact that it only took ten
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days to indict tensing should take ten minutes but maybe the fact that we did it so quickly is evidence that we're moving in the right direction. >> final question if you had to do it all over again, would you take the zimmerman case? >> absolutely. i can't not. it's what i do and honestly, you can't deny it's given me the opportunity to try other cases like this one and to speak out loud about race in the criminal justice that i've been doing for three years. there have been personal benefits i can't deny. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> sure. thank you. >> another looming battle in president obama's legacy. i'll tell you why august is going to get very hot, plus how 2016 candidates are responding to what's become the biggest issue, race and criminal justice in america, and it's still uncertain who will make the debate stage but donald trump says he intends to be, quote, very nice. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips' fiber good gummies plus energy support. it's a new fiber supplement that helps support regularity
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did you ever foresee a scenario to where you would be number two to donald trump in the first debate. >> i didn't know where i would be. this is a long haul. my focus is on what the world looks like in january going into the february caucuses and primaries. i think trump has captured the deep frustration that people feel. i get that. i get the lack of rule of law, the sanctuary cities and the open borders. all the things he's appealed to people's anger about those things and i think that it's important to be respectful of that. make the case that we can fix these things and over time, the trump phenomenon will succeed of fail based on his proposes. >> donald trump appears to take national stage. can anything stob the debate from deinvolving into absolute
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we're heading into the dog days of summer when members of congress go home to face their constituents and major policy measures go home to die. that was the case in august when fears of health care reform were whipped in a frenzy at lawmaker's meetings almost derailing the health care bill together. the iran bill it's not even august yet and there are
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rhetoric is reaching new levels of his tear owe. first, a presidential candidate equated president obama to hitler. quote, marching the israelis to the door of the oven. now a sitting member of congress is going even further. >> they view an iran that would change its stripes but iran is not going to change its stripes. hitler did not change its stripes. they're under some illusion that hitler would be different and he wasn't. and we paid a grave price for that calculation early on and then we addressed it. the consequences of this deal make the -- make hitler look like a minor player in the context of the world, the challenge to the rest of the world. >> both sides of the iran debate are gearing up. political reports that opponents
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are explicitly stealing tactics. one distributing a town hall schedules of lawmakers to the 40 40,000 members. advocacy groups are planning to spend upwards of $20 million on a campaign against the deal. a senior official of one group says this is obama care level anger. on the other side the white house is preparing to put up the fight of their lives. this week the president made a personal pitch, and last night he hosted a conference call with members of organizing for action campaigning for the deal. reportedly telling them the facts are on our side. joining me now a former spokesman for harry reed and the one person i want to talk to about how this games out. before i get your advice to lawmakers on how to survive this let's just take a little time machine back to that summer
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of 2009. take a listen to what was going on in those town halls. >> you all have the most to gain in this effort because right now -- >> the t cost of medical tear has risen primarily because of the government. >> just say no. >> the obama health care plan which you support, this man would be given no care whatsoever. >> it reads like something that was brought up in the early 1930s in germany -- >> my question to you is why you continue to support the policy as obama has. >> one day god's going to stand before you and he's going to judge you, and the rest of your cronies up on the hill. >> all right. jim. are you screaming yet?
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>> what bad memorys? >> are you going to screen that? if you're the quarterback and you have the senate democratic caucus in the huddle or the strategy team how are you gaming this out? >> expecting a tough august as you just suggested. i'm not sure it's going to be quite as bad as that ledge daregendary summer but it's going to be bad. you have to arm the members with information going back to their districts. you have to give them the talking points. you have to give them the briefings, and more importantly, and as has been suggested in the press, you have to keep up the dialogue during august. so i've heard suggestions that the white house is going to do conference calls with members during the month to try to reassure them and to provide answers to some of the questions they're going to be dealing with but there's no doubt about it. the energy the enthusiasm and the anger, if you will is with the opponents of this deal.
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so it's going to be tough sledding, but, again, i'm not sure anything is going to approach '09. >> well there is that analogy in the intensity was on the side of those who were opposed to it. in that case obama care in this case the iran keel. it seems to me that they're trying to apply the lessons of '09 this time around. move on is organizing. there is money flowing in from a few outside groups j street and others who are going to try to essentially meet their opponents at these town halls so that both sides are represented. >> yeah. that's true. but there's a little problem there. j street they're not going to have nearly the amount of resources that the proobama care groups had in '099. again, it proved ineffective against the town halls, but if you're asking me that question
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it's going to be a heck of a lot more different. we had very organized groups on the left trying to push this thing and that's not happening this time. you know the president is going to have to do one heck of a job of selling this thing and i'm confident he'll be able to pull it off. >> the last time you were on the program wen talk program, we were talking about a similar issue. tpp which has just faced a defeat in the house. the day it was defeated in the house, you came on and said they're going to figure it out. the president is active. they're going to get this through. what do you consult your crystal ball? >> i did a little reporting to get ready for the show and based on what i've seen i am confident that once again to the veto override, and the house is going to go first for procedural
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reasons. i'm confident he will have the votes to sustain the override. >> wait a second. that's key. i want to walk you through the procedure. you're not saying that they're going to win this vote the first time around. you're saying they're going to lose the vote in the house and the senate and it's going to go to the president and he's going to veto it and their game plan is to win the override vote. >> that's correct. it turns out this deal is a revenue measure because the sanctions cost money, so mcconnell, or excuse me boehner sent over a revenue measure that mcconnell is going to use to slip into the measure and the house is going to vote to the president in a row is tee. because it's an hr number the house is going to go first and based on what i know so far, i am confident that the president is going to have the votes to sustain it in the house. it's never going to get to the senate for the veto override. >> that is fascinating.
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thank you very much, jim. >> thank you. >> up next as the debate on race and criminal justice reform is taking center stage at the 2016 campaign, which candidates are joining the conversation? s. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. leave early go roam sleep in sleep out star gaze dream big wander more care less beat sunrise chase sunset do it all. on us.
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a year ago you would have been hard prezzed to find someone predicting that race criminal justice would be at the forefront of the next campaign. today five presidential candidates to look to make their
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case in fort lauderdale florida. while each one of them used the opportunity to show they're an important part of the policy. >> as president, i will require every police department to report all incidence involving use of lethal force. the proposal would work to provide path ways to full restoration of rights and benefits to americans with a criminal record. jeb bush who with ben carson spoke, acknowledged that president obama was correct in what he said on racial injustice after the shooting in charleston south carolina. >> when president obama says that for too long we've been blind to the way past injustices
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continue to shape the present, he's speaking the truth. it's not just on the campaign trail that we're seeing this. we're seeing it in policy. in a prison in maryland cede the obama administration announced it would conduct a pilot program that would restore pell grants to some federal and state prisoners that would allow them to take college classes behind bars. joining me now is a congresswoman who represents the fourth congressional district. you've been working on this a while. why is this good policy? >> i have. this is absolutely good policy. what we know is that education for persons who are incarcerated and for all of our communities is the great bridge builder. it's the game changer and today the administration announced a policy that would create a pilot program. i have legislation that i've introduced that would restore pell grant elleigibilityeligibility.
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we've got to get rid of prohibition. >> 1994 this was the kind of thing that politicians of both political parties would buy into because if you didn't someone would come along and say you would take offenders and give them taxpayer subsidies so they can attend college classes in jail in why is that political attack no longer as stinging as it might have been 20 years ago. >> it was thought to be a tough on crime measure, and it turns out that when you educate the incarcerated population people get an education and gain college credits and get skills and feel better about themselves and come out into the community because they do return to our communities, and they become productive citizens. we've seen studies that show that the rate of reincarceration
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is reduced for those who are able to get an education, and so i think that this is a no-brainer. it's a low hanging fruit when it comes to criminal justice reform and i'll urge all my colleagues to get on board. we'll save a lot of money. the program we visited today in maryland that's run by a college costs about $5,000 per person, and, yet, we're spending $38,000 to incarcerate them. imagine if you can bring down incarceration rates, spend what is the equivalent of a pell grant, $5,000 and that is going to save us an awful lot of money in the long run and reduce the incarceration. >> there has been a lot of reporting on a lot of hype about, bipartisan consensus forming on the need for criminal justice reform that things got out of hand that we incarcerate too many people that sentences are too long. is this a place where you're expecting bipartisan support, or
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is this a place where you're expecting to be attacked by republicans for coddling criminals? >> i think there's a narrative about the need for criminal justice reform and for dealing with incarceration rates. now we need to turn this into action. it's called the real act. what it does is it will put us on a pathway to doing just that putting meat on the bones of those who believe that we need to do something about the criminal justice system. and as i said, this is low-hanging low-hanging fruit. i'm encouraging our republican colleagues to join with democrats who launched the effort to build on the flat form the administration announced today. >> what is your reaction to watching these presidential candidates come before the urban league and in the case of the democratic candidates saying the phrase black lives matter and talking about racial
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justice. how much of this is a product of what we've seen since ferguson? >> i think that many of us are getting the message of the activists who are on the ground but we can't allow some people to turn this into rhetoric without meaning, and so i know when i say. >> is that directed at anyone in particular. >> it didn't. i'm just throwing the warning out there because i think the activists who are part of black lives matter are not going to let us get away with taking that movement and turning it into rhetoric. we have to perform. there has to be action and as i say, there's got to be meat on the bone to criminal justice reform. >> all right. donna edwards, always a pleasure. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> ahead a horrifying attack on the west bank claims the life of an 18-month hold palestinian child. we'll talk about the phenomenon of price tag violence ahead.
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outrage and whiedide condemnation in the wake of an attack. in the best bank palestinian town attackers fire bombed a home. hebrew graffiti nearby including the word revenge and the star of david. an 18 month old boy was burned and killed. the mother and brother were also burned and critically injured. benjamin netanyahu visited the family and had this to say. >> we condemn this. there's zero tolerance for violence. we have to fight it and fight it together. i spoke to the president right before i entered the hospital and told him this visit, and how israel's absolute commitment to fight this evil and find the
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perpetrators perpetrators. >> the president called the talk a war crime and is calling for an investigation by the international criminal court. the chief palestinian negotiator made it clear the terrorist act cannot be separated from a government that essentially fa meants it. >> it reflects the culture of hate that exists and nursed by the israeli government. we hold the government of israel fully responsible for this new crime, of the occupation. >> hundreds of mourners buried the 18-month old boy today. hamas called for a day of rage. joining me now, danny gold who did some amazing reporting last year and from the settlements. we don't know the perpetrators of this yet but the idf seems clear that was jewish extremist settlers.
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no you no. you did an incredible bit of reporting on price tag attacks where you have palestinian villages close to jewish settlements. >> it's the rationalization that these extremist settlers use for the acts of vandalism, and violence against arabs. they say that's the price for anyone who tries to stand in their way of occupying more land and of building the jewish state where the west bank lives. >> you interviewed a woman who had returned from prison where she had gone to serve a sentence for an attack like this. they say we are attacking you because you live in this land and you live knit. we will attack you and cut down your trees or fire bomb your house. >> they claim it's revenge for arab attacks on them.
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they think they have a mandate from god to own this land. and they're willing to do whatever it takes. these fringe elements are re religious extremists. it doesn't matter who it is. they think it's okay. >> the woman you spoke to and one of the things that was sort of bracing about this was she was remarkably honest about his motives. she was like it's zero sum. there's only so much land. we want it all. we will do what it takes to get it. >> i asked her, if this violates human rights she was like i only believe in the human rights of god. that's her rationalization. she doesn't care about the laws of israel or the international community. all she cares about is the fact that this land has been given to her by god. >> and when she came back from jail she was greeted essentially as a hero. her community saw what she did as brave and noble. >> she chose to go to jail.
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she was sentenced to community service. there was a lot of complaints that the israeli government has not been prosecutoring these cases hard enough. she chose to go to jail. when she came home among the radical settlement that she lives in she was greeted as a he hero. >> others have lodged a complaint a ton that price tag attacks go on completely unpunished. particularly in cutting down of trees, this is a consistent complaint. >> the murder is a rare thing. usually it's cutting down olive trees, or vandalizing houses. there have been nine houses burned down in the last few years but when those things are sort of given, or people are allowed to do those with immunity or they're not prosecuted fully or not targeted or arrested it's going to
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escalate. >> you were reporting during the gaza wars last year. that started, i mean nothing ever starts in this conflict at one moment but this horrific murder of three students who were in the west bank. there was a reprisal murder of a palestinian boy who was burned alive in jerusalem and a war between israel and hamas. in that case benjamin netanyahu, as soon as the murder happened, i pin this an hamas. they created the condition for this. you see now the palestinian negotiator saying we put this on the government. that is very connected to the settler movement. talk about the connection between this government and the movement. >> i mean there are far right wing members of the government that are like that. that are very strongly believe in the settler movement. and netanyahu, himself, has given his blessing for more settlements, and there is a lot
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of complaints that they don't do anything to curb additional settlements and violence perpetrated by settlers. >> having been there last summer and having seen what happened to gaza, are you worried that we are headed on the path toward something else like that again? >> i was in gaza in january as well during the reconstruction and everyone there and inin israel believes it's only a matter of time before this happens again. these sort of incidents have the tendency to spiral out of control. hamas calls for a day of rage. the israelis retaliate and it builds and builds. i think things were relatively speaking, calm today. i do believe there was a young palestinian that was killed by israeli defense forces maybe more than one. >> i saw reports of a 17-year-old. >> that's the one i was referring to. i don't know. i mean you never know what's happening there, how fast things could really get out of control. >> we should also say that one of the great shames of the world right now is the state of gaza
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which is essentially was reduced to rubble and has remained rubble and there's very little left to destroy there as i'm sure you saw firsthand in january. >> yeah. there's life there -- life there right now is extremely desperate. there's nothing getting in, and i don't think that place could handle another war. >> desperation is not the recipe for sustainable piece. danny gold thanks for coming. >> thanks for having me.
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>> we are just six days away from the republican presidential debate. only ten of the 17 major gop candidates will be allowed to participate in the main debate. there's another debate earlier in the day. to get into the prime dametime debate, they membershipust be polling in the top ten. fox news which say which poll it stands to use. this is where things stand
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today. donald trump as the leader in the poll will be positioned at the center of the stage according to the rules fox laid out. jeb bush and scott walker and at the ends hanging onto their spots for deer life are kasich and christie. for the candidate who make it there's a ton of advice about donald trump. though we should note the danld is donald is vowing to be highly respectful to other candidates. for viewers that's frankly, disappointing. many are advising jeb bush to ignore any attempts from trump or at least laugh them off. as one person said about jeb, never wrestle with a big. you get dirty and the pig likes
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it. a strategist for kasich tweeted, quote, imagine a nascar driver mentally preparing for a race knowing one of the drivers will be drunk. this is like prepping for this debate. we're going to do something a little different. when we come back we'll officer advice to the moderator. what questions should he ask and how does he keep the whole thing from turning into a sirk uscircus. if you misplaced your discover card you can now use freeze it to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds.
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as far as preparing for the debates, i am who i am. i don't know. i've never debated before. i'm not a debater. i get things done. these guys debate every night of their life. that's all they do debate. they debate all over the place and nothing happens. so i'm sort of the opposite. so i have no idea. i am who i am. i'll show up. i look forward to it. and that's all can i do. i have no idea how i'll do. maybe i'll do terrible or great. >> joining me now to discuss how a moderator can keep the presidential debate featuring donald trump from turning into a farce is lin sweet and joy reed. i should note it's not just brett baird. there are three of them moderate moderating it. lynn, do you have any tips? i believe you've moderated debates in chicago before. do you have any tips about how you control ten people on stage when one of them is donald trump? >> well i did a debate with
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multiple, with almost ten people. one of the things is that the moderator has to understand that not everyone is going to necessarily get a say on every question. so i'm not sure what the rules are, but i'm not certain that everybody has to be asked the same question all the time. so trump says he doesn't and he just shows up. you still have subject matter stuff to study. so i would have simple questions, you know if we have a chance i brought some sample questions along. >> yeah. >> that you and joy and i could talk about. i'm ready to offer up some but you have to keep the questions simple because with ten people there, the moderator cannot eat up the time in making speeches that end up in a question. that's advice number one. >> that is a great point. part of it also is going to be trying to bring things to heal is going to be difficult. i say this as someone who never has ten guests on my show. you get two or three and things get heated.
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basically, steering can get a little tricky joy. i think that it's very easy that things get away from the folks who are sort of moderating this if things get testy. >> absolutely. and i haven't moderated a presidential debate but i have moderated a lot of forums. i did one yesterday at the urban league conference. that was only four people on the panel, and it's difficult to keep things time wise. the two people you never want to hand the microphone who is a politician and a pastor. each person has an elongated response and they won't want to stay on the time. the moderators they're going to have to watch out for, especially for someone like donald trump, who has an attitude especially when he speaks to women. this is for meghan kelly specialically. trying to go after the moderator, that is now a strategy. belittling the moderator is a
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strategy. they need to watch out for it. if someone has a moment with trump, it's probably more likely to be meghan kelly, the only woman in that room. >> some questions, lynn. you have some prepared. what would you like to see asked. >> the first thing i would ask donald trump where he says i am who i am. well, he could run a company by himself if he owns it. you don't own government. so the most important question and i hope the people who cover this ask him, you're the president, how do you get to 60 votes in the senate even if it's run by republicans as it is now? that is the essential question in how you govern. it doesn't matter what your philosophies are for the moment. we can put that aside. fresh threshold question. do you want a few more? >> sure. >> you have to let every voice one. you can't just focus on walker and trump and bush. i would go around in a lightning
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round and say since this is the first debate let's get something established. do do you believe in climate change. yes, no and then at least everybody can have a say. >> that's a great one. and i think you have to be more specific. you have to say do you accept the consensus that human activity in car banbon emissions are warming the planet? >> i think that gives them wiggle room. we could work on the wording. i would keep everything as airtight as possible. they could parse even what you say. >> let me stop you right there, and joy, do you have anything you've been cooking up? >> the only thing i would suggest is that ask for specific policy pripgs. you don't like obama care what specifically would you replace it with. >> lynn you think that's a
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badded. >> >> they would eat up time. you have ten people. this is even if ten people talked one minute it's an enormous amount of time. >> so i actually think there's a way to combine it. what was -- there was a iconic moment about would you -- they raise their hands, would you shut down the government? i think it was a government shut down question or it was during the sort of default stuff. and. >> technically, you don't want them to raise their hands. we want the transscript. >> that is a good point, but i thought, for instance, raise your hand if you as president, would pursue a policy of deporting all 11 million people who are in the country illegally. i'm genuinely, that is a question that i don't know if everyone raises their hand and i also think, here's the thing i think is interesting about the raise your hand moment. you could see the calculation of peer pressure happening when that was asked last time around.
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>> right. we saw hands kind of go -- >> people were like where am i? >> and it was on evolution. i remember that moment. i think it was whether or not you believe in evolution was one of the hand raising moments where people are looking around and thinking i have to think about evangelicals but do i want to be honest. those are telling moments. >> one other quick thing. >> the iconic one was a dollar in tax increases for $10 in spending cuts. that's when people were saying they would reject it. that was the big one. >> and for the accounts with big super pacs i'd say let's say to jeb bush how co-do you keep a spragt straight face when you collect all this money. >> who's your favorite multimillion dollar donor? >> no one will know. >> who do you like the best? >> you don't have time for that.
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i respectfully disagree but would you appoint your dig donors ambassadors. >> that's a good one. lynn and joy, we'll see if any of those get taken up. that is all in for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts now. >> that conversation you had with congresswoman edwards about the pell grants is the best story i've seen on that so story. well done. thanks for joining us. happy friday. in 2012 in mid december just before christmas, andrea mitchel was on the state department beat at the washington bureau for nbc news when andrea mitchel reported some unexpected news about then secretary of state hillary clinton. >> we learned today of a health scare for secretary of state hillary clinton. andrea mitchel is in our washington bureau with more. andrea. >>

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