tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC March 7, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PST
markets to detroit. so i think that's going to be a big issue. >> joy reid, try to get some sleep tonight. it's going to be a long night tomorrow. >> i'll try. thank you, lawrence. >> thank you, joy. the battle of michigan. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews out in las vegas right now. tonight, power politics in motor city, the hard-working cold weather nfl cheering midwest world, we belovedly call the rust belt. hillary clinton showed last night she's got a fastball, hammering bernie for his vote against the automobile bailout. you don't vote against cars and car-making jobs in a part of the country that helped make america great. you don't give your political rival an issue to mow you down with.
you don't do what mitt and bernie did and stand tall and still stand tall in the upper american midwest if you vote against cars. that is precisely what the experts think donald trump could win this coming november. today trump continued to hammer away at his rivals, marco rubio and ted cruz. >> you know, ted cruz, he comes in bible high, bible high, puts the bible down, then lies to you. he told you -- i mean, it's unbelievable. rubio is worse. this guy is such a scoundrel. you look at his past with his credit cards. you look at the driveway that he built out of funds that don't belong to him. this guy is a disaster. on top of which he's a choker, because when chris christie, who endorsed me, by the way, when he went after him -- [ cheers and applause ] >> it's true. i thought -- i thought he was going to melt. i was all set to grab him. by the way, with this very powerful hand. he made it up.
he made that up. >> anyway, the republican front-runner, that's trump, also released an ad in florida today attacking rubio as corrupt. anyway, for republicans who hope to stop trump from actually getting the nomination, the next eight days leading up to the florida primary are crucial. but there's a huge problem in their way, and it stands now, as it stands now the only candidate standing between donald trump winning this nomination and going into cleveland with the inevitable nomination in his hands, is the roundly and i think, well, appropriately despised ted cruz. who is actually to the right of trump politically. it's a battle now between trump and cruz. one strategist told politico today, it's been so difficult to get an anti-trump campaign together. it's the ultimate beneficiary is ted cruz, it's not while. i'm joined by hallie jackson.
"washington post" columnist. eugene robinson, thank you, sir. also msnbc political analyst and former senior adviser to jeb bush and former chair of the republican party of florida. i want to ask cal, my friend, what is it about your party that has shrunk down. the democrats are down to two, bernie sanders and hillary clinton. the republican party started with like 17 people. including all kinds of people, carly fiorina, and now it's down to trump and somebody, i think it's to his right, ted cruz, and less popular, because people really know cruz. they don't really know trump. i'm just making my editorial judgment there. what is yours, sir? you're a republican. what does the party think of the choice between those two guys? >> listen, it's fear, right? fear incites reasonable people
to do unreasonable things. but 70% of our voters so far have voted for either donald trump or ted cruz. that's not 51%, that's 72%. and so obviously it's a strong majority. and the only chance you're going to have that either ted cruz or donald trump of the nominee of the party is if you go into the convention as an open convention. you say to yourself, well, if it's an open convention, who's going to negotiate what if ted cruz and donald trump have the vast majority of the delegates? you would think that they would figure something out amongst themselves. >> get a ticket together? can you imagine that ticket, trump and cruz? >> well, either one would like to put a ticket together. but i don't see anybody else around the table being the lead in any ticket. you're either going to have a ticket that's put together by ted cruz at the top, or donald trump at the top, or both of them. but the best case marco can hope for is to get to the convention at an open convention.
i don't see with the number of delegates, they'll be a driving force in making the ultimate deal. they could get on the ticket but it's not going to be their choice. >> hallie jackson, it looks like the cruz people know the only alternative to donald trump, how do they play that to win. cruz has done well in the bible belt. but he hasn't done well in the southeast, among the old deep south states. and he may well lose tomorrow in mississippi. i don't know. it's probably going to be close. but where is his strength? where does cruz win this thing to beat trump? >> the thinking behind the campaign strategic moves, chris, goes if they can get down to a two-man race and the support behind marco rubio or john kasich will come over to ted cruz and give him enough to ultimately beat trump. they're betting people in the establishment will pick preserving the party over maybe personality issues or maybe that they just don't like ted cruz.
for the good of the party, you'll see those voters. and that support come behind ted cruz and not go behind donald trump. >> let's look at this. for some republicans, it comes down to the old phrase the devil you know over the devil you don't. some say they would back cruz. they're not right-wing republicans, generally, over trump. let's watch them. >> are you comfortable supporting john kasich, marco rubio or ted cruz? any one of those three candidates against donald trump? >> absolutely, any one of those three is a real republican. >> i would support cruz over trump. i would prefer rubio over kasich. if ted is the alternative to trump, he's at least a republican conservative. here's my message to the republican party and conservative movement. i'd rather risk losing without donald trump than try to win with him, because it will do more damage over time. >> that's becoming the incredible rubber band.
anyway, senator graham is the same man who made this joke about cruz. less than two weeks ago. >> if you kill ted cruz on the floor of the senate, and the trial was in the senate, nobody could convict you. >> eugene, the audience began to laugh at the setup there, they didn't stop for the punch line. they started laughing. i think that was a press crowd. we've got to put that in context. go ahead. >> they knew what was coming. you heard of the great enthusiasm mitt romney and lindsay graham there. oh, yeah, i suppose we'll support ted cruz. that seems to be the choice as they see it. either they get donald trump or a guy who they really don't like who they don't think is going to win, but whom they will support at least nominally. whether he gets actual support is another thing.
>> i think the old phrase, if you're not the one you love, love the one you're with. this is pretty desperate territory here. the great hope of the republican establishment, marco rubio, seems to be collapsing. in the first 20 contests this year, he's won his first and only one, minnesota. in all fairness, he did win puerto rico. he's come in second four times. 14 out of the 20 races held so far, he's come in third or worse. a new monmouth poll out of florida today shows rubio eight points behind trump in his home state of florida. who's going to win down there eight days from now? >> it's tough for rubio, because over 1 million votes have already been cast in florida at a time when he was down in double digits. that means that on election day, when you get about 50% of the voters counting, he's going to have to win by five, six, ten points to carry the day. it's a tough hurdle. he's trying hard. i think most republicans hopes he wins florida and kasich wins
ohio. but listen, there are 1,596 delegates to be selected. kasich needs 75% of those. rubio 68%. cruz 58%. and trump 53%. it's hard to figure that those two fellows can get to the number. >> let me ask you about rubio in florida. he's cuban-american, a smart guy, young, attractive. he's a good cold warrior, i guess, he has that hawkish attitude about him. why doesn't he win? what's his weakness? is it the fact that -- >> i thought when chris christie and jeb bush dropped out, that all that support in florida would go to marco, and he would get to number one. he's my favorite candidate of the remaining candidates. but instead of moving forward, he seemed to have taken a back step in spite of the fact that both jeb bush and chris christie are out of the race. i don't understand it. >> yeah. look at this, ted cruz made
another one of his wild allegations the other day against trump over the weekend. without any evidence to back it up. he accused members of the media, that's us, on sitting on major exposes about trump. >> all of the attacks on donald the media is not talking about now, you better believe come september, october, november if he were the nominee, every day on the nightly news would be taking donald apart. i can't tell you how many media outlets i hear have this great expose on donald, on different aspects of his business dealings or past. but they said, you know what, we're going to hold it to june or july. we're not going to run it now. >> are you saying reporters have told you that? >> absolutely. we've got multiple -- i'm not going to out media outlets, but i can tell you, there's so much there. >> you know, hallie berry -- hallie jackson, i would love to know why we can't use occasionally lie detectors. just -- there's a fact argument. not are you a conservative or liberal or this opinion or that. he is stating a statement of
fact of informed fact he claims that he's talked to major media organizations who are sitting on the dirt about donald trump. now, i'm thinking what we used to call a major metropolitan newspaper, the journal and post and major broadcast nets, throw in the cables. who is he talking about, "time" magazine? who is this major news organization group that's sitting on all the dirt? what is he talking about? >> right. a couple of points to make. number one, we've asked the campaign what he's referring to and haven't heard anything back yet. number two, ted cruz has done things before where he's said, for example, about donald trump's tax returns, brought up questions about them. we don't know what's in them. maybe there's a bombshell. we just don't know. he's just sowing the seeds. >> that he's in with the mob, in his tax returns. i don't know what in your tax returns shows you're in with the mob. >> if you go back and look at the headlines, at the news stories, there have been plenty that have been written and that have been talked about about donald trump. it's a big question mark what he's talking about here.
we'll find out, i guess. >> i wonder who this person is at the new york times? gene, sitting on a really good story they got, it's not ripe enough politically, it won't have enough firepower, let's hold this until june or july. because they would like to be first, first of all. >> that never, ever happens. because guess what, if you've got all this information, and you've managed to figure it out, you better publish it, because somebody else can figure it out, too. they can find it out, too. and you'll get beaten on the story. therefore, we don't hold stories. you don't hold -- you publish stories when they're ready. >> remember who cruz is talking to here. he wants to get this message out to voters. he wants to basically put question marks in their minds about trump's viability in an election. >> he's still mccarthy. he's channeling mccar chi. pardon me?
>> every campaign spends millions of dollars on opposition research. files are this thick. there's nothing that escapes a good opposition research. >> i know. that's true. thank you so much. coming up, eugene mccarthy -- hallie berry, eugene mccarthy. you are not anywhere like mccarthy. after their feisty debate last night, hillary clinton's looking to put bernie sanders away. she's got her tactical skills in order right now. she's got the edge in both states tomorrow. that's mississippi and michigan. and sanders has to prove he can win beyond the campuses and caucuses. can he win in michigan tomorrow night? on the eve of michigan with eight days left until the contest in florida, ohio, and illinois, the "hardball" round table will be here to tell me something i don't know. also tonight, remembering nancy reagan. she fiercely protected her husband during his presidency
we've got new numbers on the primary race coming up in new york state, april 19th. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. on the republican side, donald trump is on top with 45%, marco rubio and kasich are tied with second at 18% apiece. on the democratic side, this will be great. hillary clinton's leading with 55%, bernie sanders trails with just 34%. i thought that would be closer.
candidate in the gem election, former new york mayor michael bloomberg announced today, he will not seek the presidency as a third party candidate. bloomberg will not run. he writes, as the race stands now, there's a good chance my candidacy would lead to the election of donald trump or senator ted cruz. that is not a risk i can take in good oh conscience. bloomberg's decision is a sign of hillary clinton's current strength. she's getting stronger after she turned on a solid performance at the debate in flint, michigan. catch this as a tactical shot. here she goes. >> secretary clinton supported virtually every one of these disastrous trade agreements. >> i'll tell you something else that senator sanders was against, he was against the auto bailout. we just had the best year that the auto industry has had in a long time. i voted to save the auto industry.
he voted against the money that ended up saving the auto industry. i think that is a pretty big difference. >> well, i -- if you were talking about the wall street bailout, where some of your friends destroyed this economy -- >> you know -- >> excuse me, i'm talking. >> if you're going to talk, tell the whole story, senator sanders. >> let me tell my story, you tell yours. >> i will. >> wow. some noted that sanders appeared to be dismissive of clinton, not a good sign when male goes against female, often cutting her off. here's what senator sanders had to say when asked about his tone, what he said today about it. >> when i was speaking, she interrupted me. i did not interrupt her. despite the fact that she spoke longer than the red lights went on, she kept talking. in the middle of the debate if
someone is trying to make a point and somebody else interrupts you, i think that's rude. >> i'm joined by a democratic senator who supports hillary clinton. senator, what did you make of last night's debate on that part of the tone, first of all? do you think he was a little pushy, a little bit difficult, chauvinistic, whatever term we're using? >> i support hillary clinton. i know both of them well. i think passions run high in these debates. but i can't help when i hear the criticism and the parsing of who interrupted whom there is to make the contrast with the republican debates. and the republican debates are -- they look like children. they're cafeteria food fights, they interrupt, they call each other names. hillary and bernie have been on the stage day after day, week after week, they're going to lose their tempers a little, hot under the collar sometimes. i don't put a lot of stock into those criticisms when i contrast how substantive and dignified and how few personal attacks there are against one another on the democratic side. they're both ready to lead.
the republican side they're just ready to fight. and that's tragic for our system. >> what do you make of hillary hitting bernie, using first names this year, for some reason, but hillary hitting bernie on his opposition to the auto bailout? >> i think that's a big, big issue in michigan, it's a big, big issue in ohio. when we did the auto rescue in 2009, once the auto rescue sort of went into effect, we've seen a turn-around in the economy. we've seen 71, 72 consecutive months of job growth all over the country. and led by ohio and michigan in many ways. because the auto industry, particularly gm and chrysler, have gone into bankruptcy and were in such trouble. as we know as they began to turn around and that job growth happened month after month, we saw more manufacturing jobs. i'm particularly pleased with what secretary clinton's doing on her manufacturing plans, and,
you know, you don't -- what pulls an economy is housing and manufacturing. and i think she's doing the right thing on both. but i think what she's saying in manufacturing is really important to create a middle class. some say that, you know, the middle class started in flint. i'd like to say it started in cleveland with unions, and the auto industry, and the steel industry, and what they've done to bring hundreds of thousands, millions of families into the middle class. it doesn't matter where it started. but we're seeing those kinds of gapes. we're not close to where we need to be yet, of course. >> let's take a regular family out there. they root for the -- they're used to the cold weather, work with their hands. i see that some of those people may be breaking for trump and some breaking for bernie. what would help a person make a decision to go left -- i don't know what trump is, left or right, but trade agreements, how do you see that dividing among the people you know out there? >> let me answer it a slightly different way, chris. the top four candidates for
president this year, it's unprecedented in a whole host of ways. one of them is the top two republicans, trump and cruz, the top two democrats, clinton and sanders, all four are against the trans-pacific partnership. i've never seen a race in the agreement of the candidates against the trade agreements. they're finally listening to the public on these trade agreements. clearly have cost millions of jobs in places like ohio and michigan, and macomb county in toledo. i think we'll see a different kind of trade policy come out of a clinton administration, that deals with manufacturing, and deals with raising standards, and undoes some of the investor state shift from democratically elected governments, all those that should be part of our trade agreements. >> great to have you on, senator sherrod brown of ohio. one of the most important states in the union come november. it always is. >> in another moment right now, receiving a lot of attention, another moment last night, the
candidates were asked if they had any blind spots when it comes to the issue of race in this country. senator sanders offered up this response. >> when you're white, you don't know what it's like to be living in the ghetto. you don't know what it's like to be poor. you don't know what it's like to be hassled when you walk down the street. >> well, to many it appeared sanders was reinforcing the stereotypes that only african-americans live in poverty neighborhoods. that's not exactly what he said, but it came across that way. here's how he clarified the remark today. >> what i meant to say, when you talk about ghetto, you're talking about african-american communities. i think many white people are not aware of the kinds of pressures and the kind of police pressure that sometimes takes place within the african-american community. >> i'm joined by democratic congresswoman from hawaii. is this about nomenclature, vocabulary? the african-americans i work
with, you can say the hood, the neighborhood. ghetto is an archaic term. is that something that's politically lethal? what do you make of that? he's getting hit with this thing. >> aloha, chris. it's good to join you. i think what bernie said speaks for himself. i think it's important for us, as i recognize the high stakes of this election, this is not about political gamesmanship. >> can you put the mike close, congresswoman? can you put the mike close? >> can you hear me? >> yeah. >> there are very high stakes in this election. that's where you see this huge turnout here tonight in michigan. i know for myself, as a veteran, someone who deployed to iraq, who served in a medical unit, who saw every day the very high cost of war, how much is at stake in this election as we select our next commander in chief. i supported bernie sanders, and
will work very hard to get him through this democratic nomination, and to get him to be our president. because it's important that we have a commander in chief who exercises good judgment. who has foresight. who has the intelligence to be able to make the right decisions about where and when we use our american military power, and where and when we don't. just as importantly. this is what's at stake. war is real. it affects our lives, not only for those who serve overseas, but lives here at home. because of the trillions of dollars that we've wasted in these interventionist regime change wars, that hillary clinton has supported and championed in many different ways in iraq and libya, now in syria, now we're faced with situations like we've seen in flint, the heartbreaking crumbling infrastructure that's ruining so many people's lives with the water crisis that they're facing, and similar challenges across the country. we need to keep those resources here at home. so that we can nation-build and strengthen our own country.
>> why did hillary clinton clinton vote for the iraq war? >> that's a good question. and i think people should ask her. again, to tell why she voted for that iraq war. she's said she's regretted it. but time and time again, whether it's her really championing the military overthrow of gadhafi in libya, pushing the obama administration to conduct that resulteding in a totally failed state, thousands of lives lost. now isis and al qaeda having a stronghold there. and present day the war in syria, she is pushing for that war and promises to escalate it if she is elected as president. which deeply, deeply concerns me, as it should all of us. >> i agree with every single word you just spoke. and i hope you have an influence in this next administration. no matter who wins. thank you so much. u.s. congressman kelsey gab bard from the state of ohio. remembering first lady nancy -- state of hawaii. what did i say? ohio? state of hawaii, of course. first lady nancy reagan, 94 years spanned from chicago to
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welcome back to "hardball." tonight the nation mourns as we remember the life of former first lady nancy reagan who died yesterday at the age of 94. not a bad run for anybody. president obama ordered the flag at the white house lowered to half staff in respect for her. and offered reflections of his own on mrs. reagan. here he is. >> as somebody who's been lucky enough to have an extraordinary partner in my life as well, i know how much she meant not just to president reagan, but to the country as a whole. he was lucky to have her. and i'm sure he would be the first to acknowledge that. so she will be missed. >> that's what truth looks like from a politician, no way he was not telling the truth there.
mrs. reagan will lay pr repose wednesday and thursday in simi valley, california, at the reagan library. in the 1980s, nancy reagan was known for bringing style and hollywood glamour to the white house. the no campaign dissuading children from using drugs. i think she was clearly the closest confidante to her husband. on the "today" show, giving a more personal side about his parents and the great love affair he said they had, that lasted over 50 years. here's our friend ron. >> once they had bonded together, they really were inseparable. i mean, it sounds cliche. i don't think that they ever spent a day apart where they didn't call, speak on the phone. he wrote her letters, you know, all her life, all his life. they were in love.
>> wow. i'm joined by ann compton, former white house correspondent who covered the reagans and six other presidents as well. ann, you've done it all. and presidential historian. michael, we like to get these things in perspective. when somebody dies, that's when we realize who they were and what they were. let me ask you, ann, about the assassination. of all the things that happened in the reagan administration, good, bad, whatever, evil is the one we saw on television, the assassination almost of a ppt. how did that affect nancy reagan? >> there's no question that the protectiveness that she felt for ronald reagan 62 days after he took the oath of office, suddenly her beloved ronnie was lying in a hospital seven blocks away, near death. and all the rest of her career in the white house, it was protecting that. she particularly protected him when it came to white house staff, finding the best press
secretary, somebody young and handsome, she said. finding somebody -- getting rid of a white house chief of staff like donald regan that she didn't trust. and more than anything else, i think nancy reagan preserved what she could of a husband. he was the oldest president, i think, michael would know better than i, oldest president we'd had. and she was the sustaining guiding light. >> so true. michael, your thoughts? >> she was. and i think she really made it possible for him to be president. ronald reagan was a great man in all sorts of ways, you know, famously optimistic. and almost a romantic. nancy reagan complemented him almost perfectly, because she was not optimistic as was her -- in her general. you knew her very well, chris, i don't think you would disagree with that. when she saw that full room of people, she could see who might have the possibility to either do harm to her husband politically, or someone who
might have a potential that other people had not seen. she was a wonderful judge of people in a way that he was not. so this was not only a great marriage, it was an amazing political partnership. >> i love the way she saw through don regan. doris, thank you for joining us. your views about nancy reagan as the big half of a power couple. >> the interesting thing is, when you look at the arc of her first ladyship, when she came in first, there was all that glamour. there were the expensive clothes. there was the china. and it seemed like she was getting criticized from all sides. and then even after ronald reagan's assassination attempt, when she had the astrologer come in, that became a problem later on. but then over time, i think that extraordinary protection that she gave to him translated itself into real power. so that she really was in a way the power behind the throne. who was the person, but she who helped him in the preparation for that second debate with walter mondale. even earlier she was the one who helped him on the microphone.
this is my microphone in new hampshire. of course, releasing the hardliners and becoming more of a confidante in the soviet union. by the end of his presidency, she was so popular, and it just shows the media goes from one extreme to the other, then there was criticism, she's still powerful. i think underneath it all is exactly what ann said, that the main thing she gave him was relaxation, replenishment, and love. that's what a president needs in difficult times. >> how times were different back in the '80s, before i got to know nancy reagan as a human being and got to really like her as a friend, she was just a political figure to me. we were writing up some jokes for tip o'neill about china. tip said, don't tell jokes about people's family members. it's a one-shot wonder, it's a disaster, don't do it. it was a scolding we got from him. that was before this play pen of politics we're watching today. it was so different.
you didn't take shots at a member of -- then you have, what's going on today, with your hands are small, and therefore -- and all this stupid stuff. and your ears are too big. and i mean, give me a break. anyway, donald trump goes after the family of terrorists. ann? >> remember that nancy reagan, of the first ladies i covered over 40 years, she got as bad press as anybody, just short of hillary clinton. but what does she do? she went to the gridiron dinner dressed in feather boas and rubber boots and said secondhand clothes. and she -- every step of the way, she tried to make up for and blunt that. and who were her best friends in washington? when frank reynolds, the anchor of abc's evening news died, the presidential limousine led a state funeral to arlington national cemetery, nancy reagan's friends were always at the very top.
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a new monmouth poll finds trump ahead at 36%. followed by cruz at 23%. john kasich at 21%. cruz has power in the midwest area. kasich down to 21%. john has got to be better than that. rubio trails it fourth which is becoming a familiar pattern. hillary clinton leads bernie sanders 55 to 42. that's a majority. what makes michigan interesting is the state trump hopes to pick off from the democrats this fall. according to the associated press, donald trump's most plausible path to victory in the general election would be a gop map unlike any in years. he would be relying on white working class, largely white voters in states that have long
been democratic bastions in presidential contests from maine to pennsylvania to michigan. by the way, george wallace carried michigan. i'm joined by the round table, heidi, a senior political reporter for "usa today," and a columnist with "bloomberg news." i know baited breath, dachd, i want to start with heidi. if you look back in history, george wallace carried the democratic primary in michigan. >> particularly, chris, down in the southeastern portion of michigan, where i happen to come from, the reason why this is so critical in michigan is because this resentment over trade, the big argument that sanders and trump are making, has been festering over 20 years with the free trade agreement. you're talking about the white working glass heritage immigrants who maf seen a lot of
the closure of plants, and who really witnessed the devastation of the automotive industry. and what was so devastating, chris, is the expectations. i grew up with a lot of these kids who are now adults. we grew up solidly middle class. but, you know, bernie sanders talks about kids in this country not having as good of a future as their parents. well, it's already happened in michigan. it's a perfect kind of incubator for what you mentioned the trump-sanders voter. and it really is the trade issue. >> i look at places like indiana who are right below lake michigan there, like they have nothing left in town, it used to be a blockbuster. there's nothing left. david, talk about that history. some of it's racial. it's certainly white people not very happy about immigration. but it's also some other kind of attitude. remember we used to talk about the people george wallace or bobby kennedy, the same voter, you know what i'm talking about.
>> we also had the militia movement in the 1990s. it was very strong militia. white working class guys who cared about guns. the nra and the republicans making inroads there in the last couple of decades on the gun issue. so what's interesting on the democratic side, if we don't look ahead to the general election quite yet, the democratic side, hillary in the past has done very well with sort of working class men who are democrats. >> oh, come on, when she was running against an african-american guy. >> exactly. >> let's put that in perspective. >> exactly. the thing is, she's running against bernie. and bernie is speaking to them on the trade issues that heidi talked about. hillary still wins the state, even if she wins it without the block of voters. it's really a pretty big loss for bernie if he can't sell the essence of his argument to this audience and win a major state that's diverse, that has a lot going on within it.
>> margaret, where did you grow up? in western pennsylvania? do you know what they're talking about on the front page of the major papers today? that trump can win in november beating hillary clinton presumably, in states like michigan, wisconsin, and western pennsylvania. those areas are the ones most likely to go to him with his appeal. >> chris, i'm actually from central pennsylvania, harrisburg. but that's what -- in between pittsburgh and philadelphia, they call alabama. >> yeah, i know. >> very conservative. and the steel plants were in that area. and they're all closed down. those people ended up flipping hamburgers. trump's appeal, you know, i have this theory if bernie sanders had made his way to flint, michigan, and did what hillary did, he would do better in michigan. but that time has passed. trump got 20,000 democrats in massachusetts, the people's republic.
he's going to get the reagan democrats who were born in mccomb county, michigan. >> right. >> and winning massachusetts with 59% seems to me, with that -- the white non-college educated male is what's going to see him through in michigan. i don't see anybody beating him. i will say, notice that john kasich, governor kasich has had a surge there. he's up nine points, and trump is down seven. so it could be -- he could move into second place. >> heidi, i'm still concerned that kasich hasn't been able to get that high, though. what is going on? he has got to do well in michigan if he's going to win the nomination, which is an outside opportunity. he has to win michigan. >> well, he's not going to win michigan. what he's hoping is to work those more affluent suburbs of detroit as well as some of the more moderate areas. he got about 500 people to turn out in gross point woods the
other day. he's hoping to have a better than expected showing in michigan. and then to win ohio. but that does not a path to the nomination make. what that makes is potentially a contested convention. he himself, chris, is saying that he doesn't think that he's going to be able to pull it off. but for sure what ted cruz is doing in florida, may also undermine him, because he's trying to take rubio down. if donald trump takes both michigan and florida, and comes close in ohio, i think it's game over. >> who says the media is all in new york? we've got somebody here from grand rapids, right down in the bottom of michigan. margaret from near harrisburg. these are not considered the tonier parts of town. are you sticking with us? >> yeah. >> the state -- the next time we're going to come back, tell me something we don't know will be led by david corn. he always has something fascinating. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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we're back with our roundtable. david, tell me something i don't know. >> as you do know, mitt romney has been going after donald trump really hard. one of the things he keeps citing is mitt romney's 47% comment from 2012, a story i know a bit about. >> you brought that story. >> yes, i did. thank you, chris. i found just a few months ago donald trump said something very close to the remark. he said we have a society that sits back and says we don't have to do anything. the 50% carry the other 50%. instead of 47%, he's calling 50% of americans free loaders. >> that's because he's bigger about everything.
>> it's hard to believe but there seems to be some confusion among some people in michigan about how to vote. they don't have to register but have to choose a ballot. there's been a 5% error rate because of this new requirement. it doesn't sound like you should be confused over it, but remember there were butterfly ballots. >> you mean they vote the wrong way like in palm beach. they get it wrong. >> this 5% error rate if it translates into the wider group voting. >> got to go to heidi. >> this narrative coming to a theater soon near you. bernie, as trump enabler. the latest calculations that bernie sanders would have to carry three fifths of the delegates going forward just to break even with hillary clinton. this race is just about over. the big question is whether
bernie really takes hillary down and continues to take her down on this trade issue, which like we discussed, is going to hurt bad. >> we'll see. >> in some of these south eastern areas where they are not endorsing them. >> thank you so much. we'll be right back. let me finish with the end time in my kitchen. (announcer) need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. (announcer) over 400,000 businesses have already used ziprecruiter. and now you can use ziprecruiter for free. go to ziprecruiter.com/offer99
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country house to the servants table downstairs. i love mary crowley, then again who doesn't. she reminds me of the old movie roles. i can't get past the idea it was all real. i think it's real. there really is a play called downton abbey. there really was a symbol who died young and beautiful and an unlucky edith and a stunning mary. that whole wonderful family of people. the place i can't believe is not real because downton abbey lives so deeply and wonderfully within me. this is the divide. the real and the unreal. thanks for being with us.
"all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> should we do the pledge. raise your hand. >> the donald trump pledge rolls on as the president of mexico compares trump to hitler. >> i swear i'm going to vote for donald trump next week. >> tonight, new signs of hope for the never trump contingent and why a contested convention is becoming real possibility. democrats boil over this michigan. >> excuse me. i'm talking. >> why the clinton-sanders fight is getting testier. why there's a full on panic over marco rubio? >> i call for him to drop out of the race.