tv Morning Joe MSNBC March 23, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT
my thought at the time was "that's one, that's two, three's coming, maybe even four." and given what we know about what happened in paris i thought there's a good chance i'm going to start hearing rifle fire. in among the debris on the ground what you were seeing were people. it's tragedy, the blood, the destruction, that stuff i wouldn't wish on anybody to see. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." what is going to be a very, very big news morning today. we're following two big stories
this morning. in politics we got a big endorsement last night, jeb to ted. but first, the terror attacks in brussels. breaking overnight, police have identified three of the suspects involved in yesterday's terror attacks in belgium. two of the suicide bombers were brothers and a massive manhunt is under way for the third man. we go live to brussels for the latest on that. plus, joe, we have the results in the presidential race this morning, donald trump is the projected winner in the winner take all arizona primary but ted cruz is projected to easily win the utah caucus on his way to crossing the 50% mark that will make that a winner take all state as well. on the democrats side, hillary clinton is the projected winner arizona's primary but bernie sanders answered in projected wins in idaho and utah, the caucuses there, joe. >> mika, you look at the election results last night, it looks like ted cruz lives to fight another day politically, a huge endorsement coming up this
morning with jeb bush endorsing ted cruz, angering a lot of people in the marco rubio camp and then you look at all the politics that got mixed into the terror story yesterday and you couldn't help but look at the television set and think of the churchill quote that says "americans will exhaust all other possibilities before finally deciding to do the right thing right now." if you look at a president strangely disconnected once again from terror attacks like he was with james foley in paris and now brussels, you look at ted cruz talking about orwellian presences in neighborhoods where muslims live. it's the exact opposite thing we're supposed to do. donald trump telling the "washington post" a few days ago we need to retreat from nato. it seems like united states leaders on both sides of the aisles have all the wrong instincts for what america needs right now. it's distressing. we're going to sort through that
and much more all morning. >> and we'll do that with former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace, veteran columnist in and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, managing editors of bloomberg politics, mark halperin and john heilemann and in washington columnist in and associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius is with us as well. thanks to you all. we'll begin with the breaking news overnight. developments in brussels where police have identified three of the suspects involved in yesterday's terror attacks, shown here in security video at the brussels airport wheeling luggage carts. nbc news has confirmed the two bombers in black were brothers identified as khalid and ibrahim el bakraroui. they are believed to have died when the bombs exploded. the brothers were known to police and had suspected links to the terrorist network responsible for the paris terror attacks last november. authorities believe the other man in the picture identified by police as 24-year-old ja jet
stream laachraoui fled the scene. he is now being hunted by police. laachraoui is also suspected of involvement in the paris terror attacks and well. and believed to be traveling with accused paris attacker salah abdeslam before his arrest last friday. laachraoui's dna was discovered at an address in brussels raided by police last week. police say he appeared to have been traveling with abdeslam on a fake belgian identity card. isis claimed responsibility for the bombings at both the airport and subway yesterday that left at least 31 people dead and another 260 wounded and u.s. counterterrorism officials said that claim appeared genuine. in the hours after the attack, investigators carried out raids across the country and counterterrorism sources described one site uncovered in the searches as a bomb-making factory. the belgian prosecutor's office also said one revealed an improvised explosive device
containing nails and chemicals as well as an isis flag. there is reinforced security threat but belgian media reports life will get back to normal quickly with schools reopening. let's go live to brussels with chris jansing. chris? >> i just arrived here but it's been fascinating to watch. you'll recall after the paris bombings this was a city in lockdown, virtually a ghost town for four days now coming in and riding several miles in a car through the streets of brussels. it's almost what seems life as usual. people walking and driving to work. the buses were running. a very few visible science, frankly, of any kind of security. that may have been the most surprising thing. only perhaps a mile from where we are here at the entrance to a subway. we did see an armed military and two people were standing at the
entrance and checking bags as people came in. as i went into my hotel, which is an american chain, they were checking people as well. we had to open our suitcases. but in terms of anything extraordinary, we certainly didn't see it. so while this is a city in mourning, it's also a city that is clearly defiant. now, the place, the entrance to the subway where the explosion happened yesterday is just down the street from where i'm standing and you do see in this area as we walked around a few of those subway entrances that are blocked. but i have to tell you, the few people i've had an opportunity to talk with in the hotel, our driver, they did not seem shocked by this. for the last four months they have been hearing about how this might happen, as you might imagine, mika, and then with the arrest of the one person who was at large, salah abdeslam, there were more warnings about the possibility of attacks here. so as tragic as it is, it's almost as people are accepting
this as a new reality. >> nbc's chris jansing in brussels, thank you very much. joe? >> david ignatius, let's bring you in. let's talk about -- i've spoken about america's failures on the political front. let's talk about europe and their inability to do many things. one, their continued inability to integrate muslims into the fabric of european society, to make them believe they have a stake in whatever future they're in in europe. the open borders ins, in europe, the refugee tidal wave in the past year and law enforcement's inability when they're hold iina suspected terrorist for four days, their inability to get information from that terrorist. is europe woefully ill equipped for the challenge it faces? >> i think today looking at this terrible images of death and
suffering in brussels europeans would say and we would say with them that not enough was done. this is a 9/11 moment where people look at an attack that was so much larger than what they imagined and think why did we fail to connect the dots? the first real islamic state attack in brussels was nearly two years ago. since then, these networks have been growing and brussels law enforceme enforcement, belgian law enforcement has been unable to penetrate the muslim communities in which these people were hiding. we see a series of names who it turns out were known to belgian law enforcement. the two suicide bombers who detonated their bombs so terribly in the brussels airport have both come out of belgian prisons, these were people who should have been known to the authorities better than they were. it took the authorities more than four months to find the prime suspect in the paris
bombing, salah abdeslam, who was in effect hiding in plain sight. so as i talked to u.s. intelligence professional, there were basic thoughts they had. first, somehow europeans in general, the belgians in particular need to lift their game and need to share information more. the french have been more frustrated with the belgians, i'm told, than anybody. second, the u.s. has to find a way to work with our european friends and allies so that our information, state-of-the-art, the best collection of information available for people can be used, amplified with our key allies to make europe less vulnerable. there are more plots under way. that's the final thing intelligence professionals stress. these are not isolated instances. more than 5,000 europeans went to syria and iraq as foreign fighters. they're now coming back. they're operating in cells that are very difficult to identify.
they use very good operational security so the traditional ways of collecting information are really not so present. so these are huge challenges and i think the consensus the u.s. and europe have to work better together. >> you talked about waves of foreign fighters coming into european countries, there's a very real possibility of them coming to the united states, not as great as europe. of course yesterday donald trump took an extreme position about torture. i'm wondering, though, is this a debate that western countries going to have about the possibility of some enhanced interrogation techniques. is anybody in intel communities talking about the fact we had a prime snpt cuuspect in custody four days and all we could do is talk to his lawyer across the table? take waterboarding off the
table. let's talk about what western countries and american countries have been doing for decades. is anybody talking about the possibility of an interrogation program in europe or america because we don't have one right now. >> i think it's fair to say that intelligence professionals in the u.s. and europe were burned by the investigations that that followed abuses in the u.s. spies don't want to go to jail any more than any other people do and so i think they have been cautious trying to understand what the legal requirements are. there are ways, as we've learned, to use interrogation clerly and picks what you learn in the interrogation not using waterboard i waterboarding but other techniques that match up with other things that you know. we are in a world of big data crunching where a lot of the intelligence professionals i
talked to say breakthroughs will come from using all the information we know so that machines are learning about these suspects and they can we can run the information at them and take is t interrogation to a new place. but the simple answer to your question, joe, is no, i do not hear people talking about torturing suspects in belgium. >> mike barnicle -- >> hold on, david. i'm not talking about torturing suspects. i heard a lot of talk about torture yesterday when you talked about enhanced interrogation techniques. there are a lot of people that have sloppily blurred the line there is over the past six months or a year over those two techniques. many intel professionals would not consider sleep deprivation to be torture or isolation to be torture in means of gaining access. you can have enhanced interrogation short of torture,
can you not? >> there are technique, obviously, that enhance the role of the interrogator and make the suspect feel more vulnerable without a gross violation of suspects rights. the technical details of this i'm not confident to get into. my only point was in the aftermath of the investigation, there's scars for intelligence professionals there as here. that's all. >> mike barnicle. >> let's bring in former assistant special agent in charge of the joint fbi/nypd terrific task force, don borrelli. mr. borrelli, off of what david ignatius and joe were just talking about, the intelligence we get that we pass on to our allies in europe, we're told -- at least at a reporting level -- that it's badly handled by different governments. some governments are better. germany, france, belgium, they handle it differently. how large an issue or problem is this in the fight against isis
within europe? >> well, it's a big issue because it really takes all of these countries working together to put the pieces of the puzzle and then figure out who these terrorists t-cells and where they are and how they're connected. in my experience, the united states is very good at sharing information with our partners. i mean, some of the highest classified information i've seen shared across the border. now what happens with it when it gets into the hands of our counterparts in western europe is largely up to them. how they choose to use it or not use it so this is a problem. sharing is also two ways. when we give expect to get in the return and it's not always an equitable partnership. >> what is the way belgium has released in the last five or six years handled that high volume of classified information about people within their own communities and operates supposedly ongoing within their own country that they seem to
have an inability to take hold of. >> i can't speak exactly to the nuts and bolts of what they do with each piece of intelligence that's passed but if you look at the big picture, it's not been enough. you've had salah abdeslam missing for four months as after the french raids and it's not like he was on some remote island. he was in the middle of the neighborhood where they expected him to be and where all his counterparts are so clearly there is a lack of a robust intelligence network there. it's not to say they don't have good professionals working on this but it doesn't appear there's enough resources being brought to bear on this situation. >> don borrelli, thank you very much. there's a lot of controversy to cover yet on the president's reaction to the tragedies as well as the candidates, the presidential candidates. we'll get to that in a moment. let's turn to last night's election results. yesterday saw another strong
voter turnout, really strong. that wasn't the cause of the tieup in phoenix where some waited five hours to cast ballots after county officials in a cost-saving move decided to open only 60 polling sites in a county with two million registered voters. by comparison, 200 were opened for the 2012 presidential primary. in arizona's winner take all race last night, donald trump is the projected victor. 47% to ted cruz's 25%. trump takes all 58 of the state's delegates and notice that marco rubio, who ended his campaign a week ago, is leading john kasich, a likely effect of early voting. but cruz answered back in utah's caucus where he is projected to easily clear the 50% threshold to claim all of its delegates rather than a proportional split. kasich in a distant second at 17%, trump at 14%. confidence emanated from cruz's
campaign manager jeff roe who called his not? a tweet "we will get 50% plus in utah and all 40 delegates, #babe ruth." cruz has a big deficit to overcome. each picked up a delegate from american samoa and trump took away the most delegates on the night, trump stands at 744 delegates to cruz's 468. so ted cruz is feeling like he's in the game, joe, is he? >> yeah. it's hard to say it was a split decision last night. the only number that matters is 1237. mark halperin sort through this for us. how did last night's results fit in to the bigger question of whether there's going to be a contested convention or not. >> well, donald trump like hillary clinton is on an inexorable march to a majority of the delegates. people who want to stop trump or clinton can't keep splitting contests, they have to start beating them decisively.
trump wins arizona, cruz gets jeb bush's endorsement, does very well in utah but the showdown is wisconsin now. last flight only heightens the prospect of a trump/clinton general election unless they can be stop independent too two weeks in wisconsin. if they can't be stopped there, it's close to over. >> that's what i was going ask you. if somebody wakes up this morning looking at these results and wondering whether this makes an open convention more likely or not on the republican side what's your answer? >> less likely because another series of contests have passed with the front-runners on a path to majorities and every contest that goes by that they're not stopped they're a step closer. trump's loss in utah, you can explain in the a lot of ways. he finished third. but it doesn't matter if he keeps winning and neither cruz nor john kasich can argue at this point they have -- not just obviously to a majority but to stopping donald trump from the majority as he continues to
consolidate not just delegates but support within the party and the electorate. >> nicolle wallace, what was your take away last night? >> i think trump every week, every contest has a strong performance and last night was no exception. i think we spend the intervening six days talking about his future weaknesses or his past weaknesses. every time people vote he looks pretty darn strong and it think it renders slightly silly the number and volume of conversations about a brokered convention. that looks increasingly unlikely and i think the jeb endorsement of cruz today, the timing is strange to me. they' their very public policy divides over intel, immigration, policing of the muslim community make it sit very much -- he did come out for someone but it feels almost like the sentiment that romney expressed when he came out and gave his stop trump
speech. >> no doubt about it. john heilemann, let's look at the overall week. what's happened between the split. you had donald trump speaking before aipac, delivering the first disciplined speech of his entire campaign looking more presidential, actually putting policy into that speech. it seems to be donald trump shifting into another gear. the question is is trump going to be able to get to the 1237 and what is john kasich's role in standing in way of that? how many more races does john kasich go through before deciding it might be time for him to endorse ted cruz. >> i think, joe, that john kasich has run his own campaign. he marches to the beat of his own drummer, sometimes that's a funky drummer. i don't have a sense that kasich has any plans to get out any time soon. mark mentioned wisconsin.
obviously that race will be important in a lot of ways but one way is in the context of kasich. if kasich can win wisconsin, if that vote splits three ways and kasich can either perform well there or win, that will be cause to go on. he looks down the calendar much like bernie sanders. he looks at those states, moderate states in the northeast, looks out west and says these are states that i might be able to win or at least accumulate a lot of dmaegs in a three way contest and so i think that last night will do nothing to change kasich's calculation. things could nap the course of april that could change his calculation but not for a few more weeks. still ahead on "morning joe," two of america's leading authorities on national security, former nsa director michael hayden and four star admiral, former nato supreme allied commander james tavridis.
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enforcement. if you have a neighborhood plagued by gang activity, it's standard law enforcement to work with the community to stop the gang members. it's standard good policing to direct your resources to where the threat is coming from. we should do the exact same thing with radical islamic terrorism. political correctness costs lives. and it is standard law enforcement, it's good law enforcement to focus on where threats are emanating from and anywhere where there is a locus of radicalization, where there is an expanding presence of radical islamic terrorism we need law enforcement resources directed there, we need national security resources directed there, the object should be to keep americans safe, to keep everyone's safe. >> that was senator ted cruz calling for increased policing of muslim communities in the u.s., cruz also invoked the
volsy vol -- policies of new york city mayor michael bloomberg. and listen to this, this new york police department reacted reminding cruz that the force has nearly 1,000 muslim officers in uniform. >> i would remind the senator he lives in the united states of america and the statements he made today is why he's not going to become president of this country because we don't need a president that doesn't respect the values that form the foundation of this country. i have over 900 very dedicated officers in this department, many of whom do double duty. they serve as active duty members of the u.s. military in combat, something the senator has never seen. so before he starts denigrating any population group, take a close look at who he's denigrating. >> joe, what do you think? i feel like bratton didn't mince words and pretty much crystal sized the perfect reaction to cruz's comments. >> well, you know, i am the last person that's ever been accused
of being politically correct in this fight against terrorism. i believe we need enhanced interrogation techniques. i'm not talking about waterboarding but we need far more aggressive. we don't want to make the same mistakes we made leading up to 9/11 and jerk too far in one direction. we're too far in the other direction now. so i am not politically correct. that said, what ted cruz said yesterday is the exact opposite of what we need to do. it makes us less safe. i won't even talk about american values. let's not talk about american values. let's talk about american safety. if we are going to win the war against islamic terrorism in the united states. if we're going to make sure we don't end up looking like europe, we do that by continuing to do what americans have done for over 200 years, accept immigrants into this country and integrate. muslim americans have successfully integrated into this country better than any
non-muslim country in the world. they're pursuing the american dream. 1% of americans are muslim. 10% of doctors in this country, i've read, are muslim americans. muslim americans are entrepreneurs. they are leaders in this country. ted cruz could not have it more wrong. i'm not talking about values. i'm not talking about reaching out and touching someone. i'm not talking about teaching the world to sing in perfect harmony. i'm talking about beating isis. you beat isis by having muslim americans embrace the american dream. and i had one leader in this country, one muslim american text me earlier in this show saying "in europe muslims look at themselves as muslims first and european seconds as far as identity go. in america they see themselves as americans who are muslims."
we have to keep it this way. and you listen to what ted cruz says and it's certainly -- >> surprising. >> the exact opposite at the worst possible time. >> you wonder why he's doing it because he's a fairly intelligent man. i can't believe he truly believes what he's saying. joining us in washington, former director of the cia and nsa, now a principal at the chertoff group, retired general michael hayden, always good to have you on the show, gentlemen. >> good morning. >> joe? >> general, i think i would put you in my category -- i hope not to insult you -- but we can probably agree on the need for enhanced interrogation techniques and both agree if belgium would have had it things may have been different yesterday. that aside, let's talk about ted cruz's statement. how important is it that the united states of america not follow ted cruz's advice? >> joe, i was watching your
commentary a few sends nag the studio and i didn't know whether to say "amen" or "inshallah." it is spot on. i don't think the senator was calling for some of the things that bill bratton, my good friend, was saying. but that said, joe, we don't have radicalized communities in the united states. we have some radicalized individuals. we have it within our ability, however, to create radicalized communities and we ought to take every step not to do that. joe, i agree totally. our cultural bent towards assimilation is a strategic and operational advantage. put aside the question of american values. it makes us more safe than our european friends so comments like that and comments we've been hearing from mr. trump actually create a clear and present danger. they don't make us more safe. >> talk about the failings of
european intel communities to track down terrorists who are literally living in their midst. >> there are a couple very good services in europe, joe, the french are there, the british are there, the germans aren't bad, but they have a serious overhang of history. a lot of the rest are underresourced and overregulated by their governments. you had david on earlier and he talks about the europeans turning to the american leviath leviathan, they want american products but they're upset with american collections. >> david ignatius has a question from washington. >> general hayden, you are famous for having said that in the intelligence business you want to have your cleats so close to the edge of the line there's chalk on them. in other words, take risks and
pursue targets. i'm curious what you think an aggressive intelligence policy like that would look like for belgium and other european countries facing a huge threat right now. >> david, a lot of the conversation after an event like yesterday is getting a bigger stronger quicker goalie, if we use a soerk analogy. but to extend the soccer analogy, you know, a lot of this becomes penalty kicks and we know what happens. we need to move the ball upfield, so extending the soccer metaphor, the midfielders. all the things the europeans have been wringing their hands about for the last 18 to 24 months. there's a reason intelligence services collect data. frankly i think we need to be more aggressive about that. we need a redo of the conversation we've had with
europeans over the past couple years based upon the distortions that have come out of the snowden revelations and then finally, david, we need to play offense, too. we need to be in the attacking zone. we need to be more taking this fight to this enemy in his lair threatening his safety rather than giving him time to threaten ours. >> so in places like raqqah, places like parts of iraq, that we lack human intelligence on the ground in terms of finding bomb makers or in raqqah in going after their capital. >> intelligence -- human intelligence against this kind of network is very hard and, frankly, human intelligence is a big ship with a small rudder. it takes a lot of time to turn. we've been working against isis for three years so one should
expect we're making more progress against them. we've had this grand debate back here in the united states about apple and encryption. mike, no matter what we do we are going to be losing the content of communications just based upon the march of technology so that makes human intelligence more important here. >> general hayden is going to stay with us. we'll get reaction to the terror attack from state department official mark toner who personally served the u.s. mission in brussels and later former u.s. ambassador to iraq zalmay khalilzad on the bloody grip of isis in europe and beyond. we'll be back with much more "morning joe." you both have a perfect driving record
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or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. against the backdrop of the violence in belgium, president obama stuck to his planned trip to cuba giving a speech on the
future of u.s.-cuba relations. he spoke about the attacks in brussels for a total of 51 seconds in a 34-minute speech. the president went on to meet with dissidents but also attended a baseball game between the tampa bay rays and the cuban national team. at one point even participating in the wave as the crowd celebrated. the president spoke about his decision to go to the ballpark with espn. >> given what happened today, was there any any consideration to not coming to the game today and it's clear that you're enjoying the game. >> it's always a challenge when you have a terrorist attack anywhere in the world, particularly in this age of 24/7 news coverage. you want to be respectful and understand the gravity of the situation but the whole premise of terrorism is to try to disrupt people's ordinary lives. >> i would suggest his life's not ordinary. >> correct. >> the president went on to cite
the fiery speech delivered are the diamond by red sox slugger david ortiz in the wake of the boston marathon bombings in 2013. >> when ortiz went out and said -- probably the only time that america didn't have a problem with somebody cursing on live tv was when he talked about boston and how strong it was and that it was not going to be intimidated. that's the kind of resilience and strength we have to continually show in the face of these terrorists. >> so i'm going to get to our guests here. >> wow. >> i think i'm going to be with you on this one, joe. >> wow. >> i just really think he probably could have shown up at the game, probably said a few words, probably taken off the shades and probably left early. >> you're probably not done the way with castro, you know, it's -- he continues to fail
miserably on sending the right message in our fight against is isis. he did it with james foley, went out golfing right after the news, the horrifying news. you look at what happened after paris, his listless response, his weak response made americans say "why can't our president be as tough as france's president?" that's something never said and has actually contributed to the rise of donald trump and then yesterday, nicolle, i want to ask you about the moment when george w. bush talked about iraq and then said now watch me hit that drive. i wonder what the difference is between that and barack obama basically saying now watch me do the wave with castro after talking for 51 seconds about
terror attacks and doing the wave while the body parts of our nato allies, citizens, were being scraped off of walls in airports and subway stations. i just -- i wonder why this president continues to not get it when it comes to the fight against isis. this java team, i don't understand his reaction any more than i understand ted cruz's reaction. >> and listen, to add another misstep on our part, george w. bush among many people never recovered from the optics of the morning of september 11 when he stayed in the classroom so i'm not making a partisan statement when i say the optics of his day yesterday were catastrophic from a white house communications standpoint. there are still americans missing this americaning. he had no way of knowing when he went to the baseball game that all the american people who were
in brussels yesterday were alive or not and just that knowledge in and of itself, it's this unwillingness and inability to adapt and make changes. in the white house, george w. bush was often criticized for not being nimble enough so i understand how the rigidity of the office and the rigidity of the presidency is a real thing but his personal instincts -- and i think we've got someone here known for how wonderful his instincts are, but obama's personal instincts are deeply troubling even to his base of support. >> and i think it helps embolden the extreme republicans who are running for president that that might be destructive. >> yes, it does. mika, that is a great point, donald trump -- i've been saying this for six to nine months -- did not rise in a vacuum. donald trump is a reaction to barack obama's continued weakness in the face of isis, whether it was james foley,
whether it was paris, or whether it's now brussels, him doing the wave with castro while, again, americans are injured, missing and while our nato allies are under going another major terror attack. it's as baffling as ted cruz's reaction: joining us now, former mayor of new york rudy giuliani and former nato supreme allied commander, now the dean of the fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tufts university retired four star navy admiral james stavridis. and with us in washington, retired general michael hayden: barnicle, take it away. >> admiral stavridis, you were practically a resident of brussels. your impressions of what happened yesterday and of the way belgians handle intelligence that we give them. that you have given them. >> indeed. i'd start by saying to anybody
rebel judge is a small country, 10 million in the population. so this on a population-adjusted basis is a 9/11 event for them. this is like 3,000 americans being killed in a day. so it's a moment of real shock to the system. in terms of their ability to handle intelligence, mike, they are not as good as the french, not as good as the britts. they are a small country. they need more help. general hayden as spoken about the way we need to cooperate more, that's key in the intel. but the bottom line is dealing with the symptoms won't get this done. we have to go to syria and raqqah. >> rudy giuliani, i saw you reacting to the president's -- >> i feel very bad about that. he's my president, too, and the reality is to analogize himself to david ortiz? david ortiz is a designated hitter. he's the president of the united states. >> i know. >> and he's comparing himself to a designated hitter? and the wonderful speech he
gave? this man's job is to be the leader of the free world which means the leader of nato. >> exactly. >> and here we have an attack which the prime minister of france is willing to call a war, and islamic terrorist war against us. he's willing to describe it that way. words that will never come out of the president's mouth. war against a nato ally is war against us. and this man is communicating. if he had to communicate at all he's communicating from a communist country. how absurd is that? >> what difference would it have made yesterday had he not gone to that ball game? >> the difference is it would have made people feel he's the leader. he's in charge. here's what i would have done, immediately left, gotten the national security staff together and say "when i wake up tomorrow morning i want a complete plan on how we destroy isis, no b zblrks you don't think he has that? >> if he does it's failing. how many attacks have we had in
the last year? if he has a plan for defeating isis, let's get another plan to defeat isis because isis so far has conducted more attacks in the last seven or eight months, nine months, including in the united states. >> but they had over 20,000 orti ortiort sorties, bombing raids. >> maybe they're not working. maybe the strategy isn't working. if he can't figure out his strategy isn't working, we need somebody else to do that job [ laughter ] >> and there are different dynamics, joe, in europe that are making europe porous to isis attack. >> well, there certainly are, but, again, it goes back to what general hayden said. general hayden, you said we have to do more than just sit back and wait for the next attack, we have to strike them where they are. why don't you answer mike barnicle's question to mayor rooud roo giuliani. does it appear we have an effective plan of attack against isis right now?
>> joe, my standard about our current plan is that it's underresourced and overregulated. too many restrictions, not enough resources. mike just said 20,000 sorties. if you do the math, we're doing about 20 strikes a day. that's not a relentless campaign. and, joe, can i just offer a comment on the previous conversation about what the president did? i'm going to say something that will sound harsh but i think it's true, that wasn't a mistake, that wasn't weakness, that was policy, that going to the ballpark and spending less than a minute commenting on the attack. i believe in his heart of hearts the president's policy is that is not that big a deal. there are other things that are more important and that was what he was messaging. >> he has, mayor giuliani, most americans do not understand it, he, the president of the united states, the commander-in-chief, has been underestimated isis' reach from the very beginning,
calling them a jv team and saying they were a jv team with a kobe bryant jersey but still a jv team. then friday before the paris attacks saying they were pretty much finished and then before okay okay ci oklahoma city saying they couldn't reach us in the united states of america. it does seem to be a calculated approach by this white house to say isis is much ado about nothin nothing. >> in the long run, the prime minister of france is quite clear that the war against france, europe, and the rest of the world. so he acts like this is another criminal act committed in new york yesterday. if it were just another criminal act, i'd go on with my job as
mayor. but when they attacked the world trade center i got out of the hotel and and f it turned out to be the wrong plan i changed it the next day. now he has the wrong plan and he has to change it. you don't send a picture of yourself laughing while people have just been blown up at a level that as the admiral pointed out is the equivalent of september 11 to one of our allies. imagine if there was a picture of the president of france laughing during september 11. how would we feel about that. >> rudy giuliani and james stavridis, thank you as well. coming up, we'll get a live update on the massive manhunt under way in the wake of yesterday's terror attack on belgium. plus, the journalist who first cracked open isis' death cult ideology with his ground breaking reporting, the "atlantic's" glen wood joins the conversation. we'll be right back in just a
the "atlantic's" steve clemens in belgium on his way to the airport when the terror was struck. five train rides and two flights later steve is back in the u.s. and he joins with us his firsthand reporting. plus, tom brokaw joins the table and we'll have results from last night's so-called western primaries and how they will affect the race for the white house. it's all straight ahead. belong. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company. one totally focused on what's next for your business. accelerating innovation. accelerating next. hewlett packard enterprise. trolling for a gig with can't blame you. it's a drone you control with your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you.
two of the suicide bombers were brothers and a massive manhunt is under way for the third man. just in this morning, there are conflicting reports in belgian media of an arrest but nbc news has not confirmed that. we'll go live to brussels for the latest. but first, donald trump is the projected winner the winner take all arizona primary. ted cruz projected to easily win the utah caucus on his way to crossing the 50% mark that will make that a winner take all state as well. on the democrats' side, hillary clinton is the projected winner arizona but bernie sanders answered back with projected wins in the idaho and utah caucuses. much more on that in a moment. joe, a lot going on this morning. i get a feeling we're going to flare presidential candidates on both sides of the aisle, reaction to the president's response to what happened in
brussels. >> a lot going on, not a lot to be cheerful about, whether you look at the president's continued disengagement from this battle against isis, disengaged in a way that americans didn't understand after james foley, didn't understand after paris and i suspect they will not understand him doing the wave with castro at this point. and then on the other side of the aisle you have ted cruz talking about using orwellian techniques for a problem that does not exist in american muslim communities. communities where muslims see themselves as americans first and also muslims completely different than europe and that's the other side that's depressing. europe just seems incapable culturally of integrated muslims into their society. into the fabric of their society. and it's causing real problems for those countries and real
problems for law enforcement who you can only say kindly do not seem up to the historic task that's facing them right now whether it's in brussels or across most of the rest from europe. >> still with us on set, we have former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle waltz. managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin and john heilemann. and joining the conversation, nbc news special correspondent tom brokaw. thank you all for being us with this hour. in brussels, police have identified three of the suspects involved in yesterday's terror attacks. shown here in a security video at the brussels airport wheeling luggage carts: nbc news has now confirmed that the two bombers in black were brothers identified as khalid and ibrahim el bakraoui. they are believed to have died when the bombs exploded. the brothers were reportedly known to police and had
suspected links to the terrorist network responsible for the paris terror attacks last november. authorities believe the other man in the picture, identified by police as 24-year-old that jim laachraoui, fled the scene. laachraoui also suspected of involvement in the paris terror attacks and was believed to be traveling with accused paris attacker salah abdeslam before his arrest last friday. joining us live from brussels, msnbc correspondent ayman mohyeldin. ayman, what can you tell us? >> this is very much an active investigation as we've known for the past several hours. moving pieces to this, linking not only these three individuals to the paris attackers but also linking them to the fight in syria. we'll start with the development this is morning as you are reporting. conflicting reports out of belgium attributed to two different media outlets here saying th saying that jim laachraoui was
captured in a city about 20 minutes away from brussels. other media reports saying he was not arrested and you can understand there's been conflicting reports. he also traveled at one point with a different alias so that could be a source of the conflicting reports. we are expected to hear from the federal prosecutor here in brussels in an hour's time. he'll explain more about these developments but a big breakthrough came in the identification of these three individuals, the two brothers you mentioned, ibrahim and khalid el bakraoui. the two brothers believed to be involved in the attack in the brussels airport. their lunge to salah abdeslam came through the third suspect, that jet stre that jet stream laachraoui. we understand that there was a dna link linking him to the paris attacks. both of these brothers, khalid and ibrahim, were known to
belgian authorities. both had been sentenced for previous crimes included carjacking and armed robbery. so their identities were known to the authorities. their link to a wider terrorist network perhaps not as clear. one other key component, that jet stre najim laachraoui, he believe he was one of the individuals collected to salah abdeslam. his dna, salah abdeslam, his fingerprints, were found at an apartment that was rented by one of the brothers involved in the airport attack yesterday. >> ayman mohyeldin, thank you reporting from brussels. and, joe, you really see attacks from the past, present and future here. >> you really do. david ignatius, you write in the
"washington post" that europe is facing a security threat and yet i just -- the headline of your column is pretty blunt. brussels shows europe shockingly dysfunctional approach to security. >> joe, i think this is a 9/11 moment for europe where they have to look at the reasons for this terrible failure in brussels now following the failure to stop the november attacks in paris and look at what's wrong in their system of intelligence, law enforcement. they have stove pipes in europe i'm told that in belgium the intelligence services, security services, police don't talk easily to each other that we saw with the fbi and cia before nib. and they need help in doing that from the country that has the only real global intelligence service and that's the united states. and that's one reason i share
your view that watch the president watching a baseball game on a day when a european ally is struggling to find a way to respond to this terrible crisis sends the wrong signal. i know how important it is for him to be in cuba but job one for him when he gets back, i think, needs to be to work with this alliance and make it real. for two years we've been talking about an alliance to degrade and destroy the islamic state and guess what? it may have shrunk in iraq and syria but it's much bigger and much scarier in other places, especially as it threatens europe. the president of the united states needs to help europeans do that, deal with that. >> nicolle wallace? >> tom, yesterday the state department spokesman who's very well respected i think across the political divide said that isis is losing and i wonder -- my sense when i heard that is that may be true in a strategic sense in iraq and syria but it definitely doesn't feel that way on the day of a terror attack.
how do these statements manifest themselves in the american public's mind? >> well, what we saw yesterday was the clear definition of asymmetrical warfare. in the big picture we may say they're losing but they're still capable of causing this kind of havoc, this kind of damage. so much of politics and national security is a combination of symbolism and reality. the reality is that we did have that attack yesterday. it was unnerving to us. it was devastating in europe but at the same time the symbolism is that the president stayed a president baseball game all day long where you would have thought he would have said i have more business than i have to deal with, i wish you well, get on the phone, we have to put together some kind of a bulletproof syndicate to deal with this. there's an urgency about it and he has to convey no that not just to the american people now with the t world. i think it was mike hayden who said he is the leader of the free world and this is the time to be the leader.
this kind of attack can occur again and again and again. on the other hand, i'm stunned brussels was so unprepared for it. here we had abdeslam who was at large for a long time. when they picked him up they knew he was planning other attacks. they didn't have anybody extra at the airport or at the strain stations and these guys could walk in and blow the place up. >> >> that's one of several problems across europe in terms of their, quite frankly, being open to isis spreading across europe. joe, take it away. >> jeffrey goldberg has said for quite some time now that one of the great lapses in security has to do with when you're standing in security lines or going in to get your tickets and yesterday jeffrey's concerns played out in the most horrifying of ways. mark halperin and john
heilemann, i want to toss it to you as our political experts that follow the campaign day in and day out. yesterday we saw, i believe, the worst instincts in american politics but it's baked into the cake where you have people playing to their bases. ted cruz taking an orwellian response that any security expert would say is a terrible mistake and on the democratic side you had hillary -- and i'm not -- there's no moral relativity here, but hillary clinton, as david sanger rightly stated in his column about candidates responding to the terror attacks is running for president in a party that actually requires her to not put too much distance between herself and the president of the united states so hillary clinton's response was we have to fight isis online. even though i think we know hillary would be far more aggressive in this battle than barack obama. but still, mark halperin and
john heilemann, talk about the politics of terror and how it often plays out in the extremes. >> we're in our third post-9/11 president and john and i interviewed donald trump yesterday on the day that brussels is attacked, brussels the home of nato, donald trump made it clear that as president he would consider getting rid of nato, that nato tmight not have relevance. and on the other hand you have hillary clinton saying nato is fundamental. you have donald trump saying we need a president who's unpredictable, that president obama has been too predictable, hillary clinton saying no, we need a president who's got a steady hand and that people can count on. so there's a huge foreign policy debate going on, not just about security but about america's role in the world. >> right. and i think, joe, you're going to see -- there's no doubt there's been, for trump, the posture of being the strong man, of being -- after paris, after
san bernardino and now after this it's worked for him so far, a national security policy without nuance but is very clear, black and white, right and wrong. yesterday we asked him about ted cruz's comments about the police patrols in muslim neighborhoods and he said he was 100% for it and i raised the fact that we did an interview with ryan crocker who said it would be the worst thing you could do, it would be giving isil what they want and trump's response was "i totally disagree." he wouldn't say why, he just "that's completely wrong. we need to be tough, we need to sacrifice any nuance and we need to be as tough as possible." that's worked for trump so far and you see cruz chasing him into the strength primary and the lack of nuance primary. you know, hillary clinton's going to make the argument that nuance and experience is a better place to be than that kind of what she would say is pandering to the worst fears of american voters. >> it's a tough landscape for
her. joe? >> yeah, i was just going to say, tom brokaw, it does seem that ted cruz is chasing donald tru trump. talk about, if you will, when we're talking about how tough we treat muslims in america or muslims trying to get to the america, talk about the difference between the united states as you've seen it over decades of reporting integrated immigrants, muslims into america and the problem that europe continues to have with integration of muslim s into their society and the problems it's causing from paris to brussels to across that entire region. >> well, so many of our islamic neighborhoods in this country represent two and three and four generations of people who have been living in those neighborhoods for a long, long time in the detroit area, for example. that's been a fixed part of that region that there are muslim neighborhoods but they are full-fledged american citizens and they've -- they run schools and own businesses and what's
going on in europe is a recent phenomenon of the refugees coming out of the middle east as a result of the war in syria and spreading across europe and putting enormous pressure on leaders like angela merkel who will now get a lot more pressure. europe is in danger of coming apart as a result of these attacks. but the way not to deal with it is to create more people who are the enemies of america in this country. i don't think they'll come out of the islamic neighborhoods, but isis and other radical jihadist groups will use that as an example of america is not your friend and it will become a recruiting tool for jihadists around the world to say, look, they treat everybody one way and they treat us another way so i think it's a very dangerous proposition on its part. on the other hand, let me say quickly, joe, i am always disappointed when sla ee eed wh world, the saudis, qatar, uae,
when they don't respond with triej th rage to this attack. the saudi foreign minister was an important figure the saudi embassy, he knows america well, he knows the coalition, he ought to be out front today saying the keeper of the holy mosque condemn what is's been going on in europe and we stand with our friends in the west to do something about it and we're prepared to go to any meeting they call to try to arrange some kind of an ability to do that. >> yes, their reaction is significant. tom brokaw, thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe," nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely joins us live from brussels, plus the "washington post's" chris cillizza on what last night's primaries and caucuses tell us about the state of the presidential race. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. know your financial plan
el ba we want to turn to last night's election results. in arizona's winner take all race last night, donald trump is the projected victor. trump takes all 58 of the state's delegates and notice that marco rubio, who ended his campaign a week ago, is currently leading john kasich. a likely effect of early voting. but cruz answered back in utah's caucus where he is projected to easily clear the 50% threshold to claim all of its delegates rather than a proportional split. kasich is in a distant second at 17%, trump at 14%. cruz has a big deficit to overcome. each picked up a delegate from american samoa and trump took away the most delegates of the night, trump stands at 744 delegates to cruz's 468. on the democrats' side, hillary clinton is projected winner arizona's primary while bernie sanders is the projected winner with caucuses in idaho and utah.
despite sanders making a late push in arizona, hillary clinton brought in former president clinton to campaign. but sanders won big in idaho taking 78% to clinton's 21% and another strong performance in u.s. wrut he leads clinton 79% to 20%. he attracted 10,000 people at a rally in salt lake city on friday. sanders outspend clinton on the airwaves, with clinton spending nothing at all in idaho and utah. sanders is so far the delegate win over the night taking 61 to clinton's 54 but clinton is still far ahead on the road to philly, the site of this summer's convention so, joe, a couple things to look at. sanders is not necessarily going away easily but a big endorsement late last night that means what? talking about jeb bush. >> well, a big endorsement that
means that jeb may have done it about a month late. yon if it's all baked in the cake yet. chris cillizza, it does seem interesting he waited as long as he did and i -- you almost wonder whether he did it more as a knock to donald trump and marco rubio than in support of ted cruz who he doesn't support on so many fronts. so talk about that endorsement but also talk about last night. do last night's results make trump getting to 1237 more likely, less likely or it a push to wisconsin? >> let me take the second question first. it's basically a push. two out of the three biggest winner take all states, trump has now won florida and arizona. the thing to remember about utah is trump was never going to get the 40 delegates out of utah. he was never going to be that 50
plus one candidate. if he got anything it would have been one, two, three. so yes he could have gotten three to five more delegates maybe but this isn't a huge loss for him. he remains the only candidate who has a plausible path to get to 1237 before the second ballot of the republican national convention so i'd say it's largely a push and that's good for donald trump give wherein he is. on jeb -- joe, you know this better than me but if you listed the 17 candidates or 16 candidates not named jeb bush running in this race at one point, the second to last candidate jeb bush would like to endorse would be ted cruz. [ laughter ] this is a lesser of two evils in jeb's mind. he views donald trump as dangerous to the presidency. i think he views ted cruz as significantly more conservative in policy and in tone than he is but views trump as fundamentally
dangerous and not a republican and therefore goes with cruz but this is by no means a jeb bush affirmation of ted cruz this is not not wanting donald trump. >> let's toss also to hal prib and heilemann. what about john kasich? jeb could have endorsed john kasich who's closer to him temperamentally, but he did not endorse kasich. is wisconsin kasich's waterloo. does he have to win there or become irrelevant to the rest of the process? >> we've seen this a bunch of times, joe, where we've seen governors -- it's been baffling, governors and former governors who you would have thought on the basis of policy and ideology would be more aligned with john kasich than ted cruz who now jumped on to cruz's side. in some ways mitt romney is the exemplar of that, voting for cruz in the utah race,
announcing that last week. ty think a lot of it is cold political calculation. people are looking at kasich, looking at his deficit in delegates and saying ted cruz is the one who has the best chance to win at this point. if there's anyone to stop trump it will be cruz. he clearly has a path. very difficult path to get to 1237 but he's way, way ahead of john kasich and so some people are just making hard-nosed and probably unpleasant political calculations here. >> if you look at romney, lindsey graham and now jeb bush going with cruz, they would clearly rather john kasich be the nominee. i suspect they think john kasich has a better chance of winning a general election. but i'm not sure they all want ted cruz to be the nominee at this point. i think what they're looking for is someone who they think can beat donald trump in the upcoming contests and stop him from a majority and then throw it open at the convention. kasich, i don't think he needs to win wisconsin to stay alive, he needs to make it a three way. the numbers line up so it looks like he's in the game. then there are northeastern states where there is doubt that ted cruz for all the money being
bet on him to stop trump, can ted cruz stop donald trump in connecticut or new york or new jersey. ? >> rhode island? maryland. >> there's reason to doubt. >> oregon, washington. >> there's no doubt kasich has not proven to people like jeb bush that he can be the guy who slows trump down let alone stop him. >> mike? >> as we look at this through the prism of -- the eyes of experts like you guys, we forget, i think, what a brutal oau mill@ing business it is running for this office. you as the bush whisperer, please give us some insight into that aspect of jeb bush now endorsing ted cruz. >> on the heels, nicolle, of ted cruz making those inane comments in light of brussels. >> which i -- i can't imagine he -- >> we've had an opportunity to replay george w. bush's comments in front of a mosque on -- right after september 11, i think it was september 14 does they stand
in such stark cob trast to where the assault and battery with party has gone so it's very much alive in this republican debate. let me tell you a couple things about ted cruz. george p. bush, jeb bush's son, ran statewide in texas and was unable to secure ted cruz's support or endorsement. george w. bush in a very rare sort of public revealing of his personal feelings about someone has made it clear that ted cruz was not someone who he thought embodied the best of the republican party, if i may say it that way. and ted cruz on policy is so far apart from jeb bush on the treatment of mexicans. no matter where you sort of divide on immigration policy, ted cruz's rhetoric on immigration is so hot compared to jeb bush's. his policy on the intelligence debate is totally -- as far apart from jeb bush's. it could be somebody in another political party. so i think this has the
potential to go one of two ways. one to be viewed as too little too late and holding your nose endorsement of ted cruz or such a dramatic rebuke of trumpism that it makes people stop and take notice that jeb bush viewed trump as such a danger to the party and the country that he endorsed cruz. >> with all due respect to your former boss, one of the things we learned over the course of this nomination fight is that like it or not, jeb bush does not have that much impact on this party. there was no appetite for him as a candidate, he doesn't mean that much to the contemporary republican party. i can't imagine this endorsement will matter very much. >> unless he asks super pac donors to write checks to cruz's super pac. >> i think it just shows how trump has just gutted the heart out of any possible very good republican candidate who has now left the race. because i don't think jeb bush could possibly mean what he says in this endorsement. chris cillizza, the developments in brussels i think will gin up
the republican candidates to say things like what ted cruz said. you'll hear hillary clinton talking. she might in some ways make a lot of sense. she's not necessarily very far left when it comes to foreign policy. but i don't think that's where people are going to go. i don't think that's where americans are going to go. i think they're going to head directly in trump's direction in light of what's happened. >> well, and mika, look -- >> they did after paris. >> i was just going to say, i remember after paris we were talking about -- remember, jeb bush after paris came out and said "serious times demand serious leaders." his campaign sold this as a time in which the race would refocus on foreign policy, refocus on gravitas and seriousness and policy expertise. the exact opposite happened. trump said, you know, we need to think about banning muslims, he made a lot of strong predictions and strong responses and it all
worked. so i'm not convinced that this will be a refocusing of the race and, look, if you need any evidence of that, as you just pointed out, ted cruz want as far if not further than donald trump with his comments yesterday regarding brussels and what the american response should be which tell i don't say that ted cruz knows what works in terms of a republican primary electorate. >> there's no doubt he was chasing donald trump in an area most foreign policy experts would want him to stay away and want donald trump to stay away. mark hall hperin, in every political campaign we look back, we find those defining moments. 1980 reagan in nashua saying "i paid for this microphone, mr. green." '88, dukakis in the tank with the helmet on. '92, george h.w. bush looking at his watch. as we look back over the past six to nine months, paris was the defining moment, the president's lack of a strong
response to paris and i just want to underline what chris cillizza said. we were all sitting there saying now these are serious times, now will people turn to jeb bush and other policy experts? instead they opted for donald trump and strength, the candidate with the most perceived strength. does that happen again after brussels? >> last night, john heilemann, i talked to one of the leading political analyst ins america and asked that question and that person said yes, i think when there's moments of crisis the country turns to donald trump. that political analyst was donald trump. he said i don't want there to be bad things in the world but my sense of things is when there have been bad things i've done well and he thinks that's not only helped him in the nomination fight but the question was in the context of running against hillary clinton. he thinks the clinton tied to obama in particular will help him if that's the general election matchup when there are crises. all right, chris cillizza, thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up, we're following
conflicting reports from belgian media of an arrest in yesterday's airport bombing. we'll go live to brussels where nbc's bill neely is standing by. "morning joe" is back in a moment. and can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar? "super food?" is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. if legalzoom has your back.s, over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here.
conflicting reports about an arrest of that thirpt airport bombing suspect. any word? >> good morning, mika. a few hours ago, police raided a house in a suburb of brussels not far from here and they arrested someone. now belgian media quoted judicial sources as saying it was najim laachraoui, the man in the cream jacket at brussels airport wheeling their suitcases containing bombs just minutes before they blew helmss up. najim laachraoui's bomb did not go off and he escaped along with the other passengers but we now understand the belgian media and judicial sources are withdrawing the claim that it was laachraoui. so someone's been arrested but it's not him. so it mean this is guy who is 25, from here in brussels, who's been evading capture by the
police for four months because we know he was involved in the paris massacres as well is still on the run. question kwha we do know is those two brothers, khalid and ibrahim bakraoui are both dead. they're the two men in the photograph dressed in black. we believe both are suicide bombers and both are dead. they were both known to the police. they both had criminal records so whatever this is, mika, this is an intelligence failure. police have been expecting an attack of some sort but nothing on this scale. hour, i gather this morning they have a man in custody they will be questioning. mika? >> more on that later, hopefully. nbc's bill neely, thank you very much. up next, isis has claimed responsibility for yesterday's attacks and we're going to bring in the reporter whose ground breaking cover story who report what is isis wants and how to
stop them. "morning joe" is back in a moment. constipated? trust number one doctor recommended dulcolax use dulcolax tablets for gentle overnight relief suppositories for relief in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax, designed for dependable relief [alarm beeps]
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>> i see the challenge as one where we are leading the world against these terrorist networks. whereas some of my opponents want to build walls and shut the world off. well, you tell me, how high does the wall have to be to keep the internet out? right? we need everybody on the front lines. everybody. particularly, i will add, american muslims because they're the ones who should be calling the fbi and law enforcement to say something suspicious is going on. i want them to feel like they are part of our defense, not that they're being insulted and isolated and left out which will be dangerous to us. that doesn't make sense, my friends. >> joining us now, fellow at the council on foreign relations and contributing editor at the "atlantic," graham wood. he wrote what's been considered the quintessential piece on isis
entitled "what isis really wants." also bianna golodryga and david ignatius is still with us as well. aren't they getting what i want this right now? >> i think a few days ago with the arrest of salah abdeslam they would have said they're on the back foot but this is their method. whenever they have a set back they try to grab the limelight with something else and they've done that successfully in brussels. >> i was going to ask you, i asked tom brokaw about this in the show. the spokesperson for the state department said isis is losing. is isis losing? >> in syria and iraq, it's lost a lot of territory which is one more reason why they need to find overseas operations now to keep their brand up. >> so is it easier for them to succeed in western europe than
iraq? that's startling if that's the case. >> the number of people they've killed in iraq is way, way higher than western europe but if they blow up in an airport in brussels then they capture headlines in. iraq the headlines have been against them for the last several months, really the last year. they've lost territory in battle after battle after battle. >> david ignatius has a question, he's in washington. david? >> graham, one thing that made your atlantic piece so brilliant was the way in which you got inside the ideology, the religious belief of isis and they're passionate about building their caliphate. that caliphate is under attack in iraq and syria and i wonder if you think that basic element of u.s. strategy is right or whether you see a danger that i'll move even more aggressively into libya, into europe, into these operations that could make real trouble for european muslim communities. >> i think it's an unfortunate side effect of success in syria
and iraq that they will look elsewhere for, again, those kind of headline-grabbing attacks. it doesn't mean we shouldn't attack them in syria, doesn't mean we shouldn't deprive them of their territory but when you start dismantling an idealistic construction like a caliphate, this enyou'll have disappointed people and some of them will come home and take out their frustrations with suicide vests and so forth. so we should expect success to have as an unfortunate side effect attacks like this. >> bianna? >> how high of a priority is it for isis to strike within the u.s. as opposed to what we're seeing in europe. we're hearing from officials that our intelligence is better but you look at the soft targets when you walk up to the check in counters, you think that could happen here radziwilas well.
>> i think the threat is much less here. in europe there are unassimilated muslim communities many a way that the united states doesn't have. in the united states it's not that we don't have those soft targets, but by attacking us they'll sew fear but won't cause the kind of disaffection among muslim communities that they can in europe. >> graham, reporting tells us that within europe you have a large number of settled cells in various countries. established cells that are hard to track, hard to penetrate with human intelligence on the other hand, there are policy differences in washington. one school saying going after raqqah, cut the head off the snake.
what happens to the established cells in europe if we do go after raqqah? >> the bad news about brussels is not just the dead people but that four months of intense pressure on those established cells has not been successful in stopping them and rooting them out and stopping attacks like this. i think what we have to think about is even a multi-layered approach where we're attacking raqqah and trying to roll up those cells, it won't be adequate to completely stop the attacks. it's still, though, a necessary part of the strategy. unfortunately, these cells are so deeply ingrained in these communities that it's going to be tough and there's a long road ahead that includes not just the intel work but also a social work of integrating those communities. that will be tough and take years. >> joe, jump in. >> graeme, explain if you will to us about -- you know, you
talked about your article, we've been talking about your article, the importance of it, talking about the religious fervor that does drive isis. and yet we find, again and again, you have disaffected muslims across europe who -- well, in the case of the lodge incompetents officer were ae rested four or five days ago, a guy that ran a bar a year or two years ago is. explain how those who are not devout muslims are able to rise in the ranks of isis. >> a lot of people who join isis have what looks like very secular non-pious backgrounds. and by joining isis, they try to erase that past so you see a lot of people who have backgrounds dealing drugs, acting as petty criminals and i think the attackers, as far as we understand them from brussels in this case, they fit a very
familiar mold in that regard. they have backgrounds that are not religious and they find god. unfortunately the version of god that they find is one that's murderous so it's -- there's nothing too surprising about what we've learned about the background of people like salah abdeslam. >> graeme wood, thank you very much. if you haven't read graeme's "atlantic" piece on isis, be sure to check it out. still ahead this morning, the human toll of yesterday's attacks. plus, we expect to learn more about yesterday's terror attack in brussels when officials hold a news conference that's expected in just a few minutes. the latest information as soon as we have it. "morning joe" is back in a moment. vo: know you have a dedicated
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uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. we are learning more about some of the american victims in yesterday's attacks. the u.s. military has confirmed that an american service member was wounded along with four of his family members. sources tell nbc news none of their injuries were life threatening. a couple from kentucky, justin and stephanie schultz is missing this morning. a family member tells nbc news the couple lives in brussels. they were dropping stephanie's mom off at the airport when the attacks happened. the mother is fine but the family members says no one has heard from the couple. and three mormon missionaries from utah suffered shrapnel wounds and burns during the attacks yesterday. one of the missionaries elder
mason wells also happened to be a block away from the boston marathon bombings back in 2013. he was also in paris this past november when the french terrorists attacked. >> we knew when the paris attacked he was a few hours outside of paris. we weren't as concerned. we were more concerned about the missionaries there. not necessarily our son but the ones downtown but this time we were concerned because this was mason's area. this is where he walks every day. >> up next, we're going to go back live to brussels. we have brand-new reporting just in about what may have been in those bombs. plus, officials have identified two of the attackers in yesterday's attack, but who was the third suspect in this surveillance photo at the airport? was there another arrest made as well? officials are set to hold a news conference at the top of the hour. we're going to bring you the very latest information straight ahead. uh, i live right over thee actually. you've been to my place. no, i wasn't...oh look, you dropped something. it's your resume with a 20 dollar bill taped to it. that's weird. you want to work for ge too.
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my thought at the time was that's one, that's two, three's coming, maybe even four. and given what we know about what happened in paris, there was a good chance i'm going to start hearing rifle fire. laying among the debris on the ground what you were seeing were people lying and not moving. >> tragedy, the body, the blood, the destruction. that's not something i would want anybody to see. >> welcome back to "morning joe." we've been following these two huge stories all morning long. breaking overnight, police have identified three of the suspects involved in yesterday's terror attacks. two of the suicide bombers were brothers and a massive manhunt is underway now at this hour for the third man.
reports have been evolving all morning that he had been arrested. someone's been arrested, but at this moment it appears it is not him. we're awaiting a news conference with updates. we'll go to it live when it happens. plus, we have results in the presidential race this morning. donald trump is the projected winner in the winner take all arizona primary, but ted cruz is projected to easily win the utah caucus on his way to crossing the 50% mark that will make that a winner take allstate as well. on the democrat side, hillary clinton is the projected winner in the arizona primary, but bernie sanders answered with projected wins in the idaho and utah caucuses. so, joe, we have obviously politics in the headlines but this election just got ramped up with this latest terrible act of terrorism. i fear that some of the language that's going to be used especially on the republican side, is not going to be very
good for global security. >> i think it's going to get tougher obviously by the day. last night sorting through the election results as chris said the last hour, you have donald trump winning now two out of the three largest winner take all states with a huge win in arizona. ted cruz winning comfortably in utah, but it looks like it's a push to wisconsin. we'll see what happens there. we don't know how that race is going to turn out. we do though know from talking to our policy experts and talking to david ignatius who said that europe is terribly dysfunction aal in its approacho terrorism, and its answer to terrorism at a historic time, that on both sides of the atlantic we have governments who are either disengaged from this fight against isis on terror or ill equipped to handle the historic challenges that it's facing in the post war world and right now all we can do is hope
and pray and cross our fingers that we will be electing leaders that can face isis. >> how europe catches up, communications director for president george bush, nicole wass, mark halpern, and in washington, columnist and associate editor for the washington post david ignatius still with us. thank you for that, david. just in two sources are telling nbc news that tests show the brussels airport bombers used ammonium nitrate bombs. the bombs were estimated at 44 pounds each and police have identified three of the suspects involved in yesterday's terror attacks shown here in a security video at the brussels airport wheeling luggage carts. nbc news has now confirmed that the two bombers in black that you see there were brothers
identified as khalid and ibrahim. they were known to police and they were linked to the paris terrorist attacks last november. authorities believe the other plan in the picture is 24-year-old najim laachraoui. he is also involved in the paris terrorist attacks and is believed to be traveling with syed farook aleh abdeslam. a men, we'll start with you, what's the latest? >> we know there have been some conflicting reports as a result of this morning's searches? various parts of belgium.
those reports are being walked back. there's no confirmation. nbc news has not confirmed that he has been arrested but so much of the attention is focused on trying to capture this individual. he is a link. najim laachraoui traveled to syria back in 2013 and is also believed to have had a close connection to saleh abdeslam. all of this draws back to last tuesday when belgium police carried out a raid outside of brussels. there they found the fingerprints of saleh abdeslam. that apartment was rented under an alias belonging to one of the suicide bombers in yesterday's attack. you can see there is already an initial link between the paris
attackers, saleh abdeslam and the network of people involved in carrying out the brussels attack. we are waiting for them to speak and shed light on where the investigation is going. belgium investigators continue to piece together key components focused on the identity of those attackers, mika. >> ayman, thank you. christine, you're looking at security in the city. fairly high? >> reporter: we're hearing about it. we're not seeing a heavy police presence. not seeing what we might expect after something like this. certainly nowhere near what we saw after the paris bombings. this is a city being resilient. what choice do we have? restaurants are happening a block from where that detonation happened at the subway.
i think to pick up on what you were talking about on set, while people here feel as though they need to move forward and they're resilient, people say we're not going anywhere, we're going to continue to live here, we love this city, there is also this concern about whether or not this is a city that can handle the threat that is posed by it. when you look at it on paper, belgium has two intelligence agencies, a federal police, a local police here in brussels. they have a terror threat analysis center. having said that, just this year so far they have 244 active terror investigations and in the molenbeck area everyone knows now because that's where they centralized, there are 185 openings in the police department they haven't been able to fill. as you've been talking about, they're talking about whether this is a place where all of europe is a place where they can deal with the threats they're
dealing with. so many of the people have been known to the authorities and that is a factor of ongoing concern. mika. >> nbc's chris jansing, thank you very much. joe? >> in your column you say what a great concern it is for you and other intel officials that the logistical planner for the paris attacks was hiding in plain sight for over 120 days just a few blocks from him home where they should have expected him to be. you add to the fact that the waive of jihadists is dizzying. talk about that threat and europe's inability to handle that. >> joe, i think about the
feeling that belgians must have worrying about their security. there are gunmen on the loose with a plot to set off suicide bombs in an airport to kill dozens of people is out there and there seems to be no evidence that person has been found yet. the belgian authorities have to step up their game. they have been trying to penetrate these networks now for months with very little success. they need help in that. they're going to need help with the french with whom they're very close. they need help from the united states. if there's one thing i would really hope for from president obama is that when he gets back from the ball game, he leads a real effort to build an international coalition that can deal with this problem. i mean, the ground game on the ground in iraq and syria si complicated, but the intelligence side, protecting
europeans, that's urgent. he should begin by figuring out what went wrong in brussels in this manhunt and what can the u.s. do to help the belg gans perform better in the attacks that are coming. there are almost 500 belgians who have gone to iraq and syria to fight in the jihad. many of whom are going to want to come back. that's going to provide a network dangerous for belgium, not just for weeks, but for months and years ahead. >> mike barnacle, david ignatius wrote that if europe were a stock, you would want to sell it this morning. and part of that has to do with the fact that the intelligence agencies aren't able to find one of the most important members of isis but think of the mind set, the difference between europe and this morning chris jansing
reporting the belgians going about their business understanding this may be a new way of life and compare that to boston after the april attacks of several years ago. boston was a city that was literally shut down until both attackers were captured or killed. seems to be a completely different mind set in europe right now, not only among the law enforcement agencies but also the people there. >> well, joe, to frame it up in understandable terms, what happened in boston, what happened in new york with the times square bomber, things like that, we are 48 contiguous states in this country operating as one. in europe you have several different sovereign nations reacting to these things and employing their own intelligence agencies. they're all different from germany and the u.k. is different from all of them in levels of expertise -- >> let me interrupt. we have the federal prosecutor in belgium at the podium.
let's listen in and see if there's anything here. >> with regard to the . >> translator: with regard to the attack at the airport, the first explosion took place on 22 22nd of march. very quickly at 7:38:57 the second explosion was started at level two. the photo showing the three suspects was disseminated. the author was identified as ibrahim el bakraoui. the second suicide bomber on the left is not yet identified. the third suspect with a light coat wearing a hat has fled. he deposited a big bag and
departed after the -- before the explosion. this contained the most -- the largest explosion. after the mine sweepers came in they were able to explode it. nobody was hurt because of the professionalism of those who intervened. the third person is being sought after the inquiry no more arms were found at the airport. a taxi chauffeur came to the police to declare that he had taken three people from the area. a raid took place and we discovered five kilos of explosives, 150 liters of acetone, 30 liters of oxide,
detonators, luggage full of nails and screws as well as material to manufacture bombs, plastic bags and ventilators. other -- two other subjects were left and these were negative. in a garbage bin we found the wilf ibrahim bakraoui in which he declares that he was in a bad situation and has been sought everywhere. he's no longer safe and that if he dies -- if he's sought he may end up in a prison cell. a fourth raid was done in schaerbeek in the evening. a person was arrested and is
being listened to. a fifth raid took place where somebody was arrested and then freed after an in depth hearing. with regard to the attack in the subway station in brussels, the maelbeek station, the explosion took place at the second track where the train was in the station. the suicide bomb was identified with fingerprint. he is khalid el bakraoui. the two terrorists who died had a background -- a criminal background not linked to terrorism. investigations of the technical and forensic work is being done on the different crime scenes, and this will continue for many hours, even for several days. in the interest of the
investigation, it is undesirable to give more information currently. the office understand the importance and we deplore 270 wounded and 31 deaths. this figure will be further evaluated in the next two hours or days. all our thoughts go to the victims and their families. the speaker continues in dutch. >> translator: in the brussels airport we are giving you the following information. airport in brussels was the first explosion on march 22 at
almost 8:00 in the departure hall. immediately after that there was a second explosion -- >> all right. you're watching the federal prosecutor in belgium giving a rundown of what they know at this hour in terms of the attacks that happened in the past 36 hours. there is a third bomber that's still on the run. they've had five raids. it yielded one or two arrests. don't know much more about what exactly they might get out of those people. we're looking at 31 deaths but there are people missing and there are 270 people injured. so the death toll expected to rise. mike barnacle, just listening to what they have right now, it seems that those raids yielded mostly the makings of bombs and more bombs that could have been made, explosive devices or pieces of them. >> well, it gets back to what we were talking about before we went to the press conference,
and it is the lack of coordinated intelligence under one unit. sovereign nation, belgium, france, they don't want to see their sovereignty it appears in these attempts to get a handle on isis. they're going to need to come under one coordinated approach because we get information from the press conference about those who have been dead, those who have been killed of their own hand, the suicide bombers at the airport, but there is a bomb maker or bomb makers still out there, highly volatile conditions involved in making these bombs and the preparation of these bombs. very similar to what occurred in paris, the suicide bombing vests, and they're still searching for a bomb maker, which that's the most lethal element involved. >> david ignatius, is that what stood out to you? anything stand out to you? >> yeah, what stood out to me was the suicide note that seems to have been left by one of the bakraoui brothers before he went to the airport. what you can tell about that is he's feeling under pressure. he's feeling that time is running out, that he's got to
move. that's one of the things we've been wondering about the timing of this bombing. what it tells you is that the belgian authorities are close to these people but not close enough. the other thing that strikes me about these two bombers the more we learn about them is they're oddly closer to a youth gang members than to a religious cult. one of them is a former armed robbery suspect who was imprisoned for that. the other is a former car jacker. these are guys that grew up in prison. they didn't grow up in the mosque and i think that's a part of the isis profile that we need to think about more. this is the, yes, it's a religious group, but it's got an awful lot of people who served time in prison for crimes that have nothing to do with religion. >> and belgian born youth gang. >> and they're local guys. they're belgian born, exactly. . that's what we're seeing. >> here's what i don't get about
europe, after paris, after this, the authorities go and raid a bunch of places and round up a bunch of people. i don't understand why they wait. you know, it happens every time. every time there's an incident in europe they know right where to go. >> that's the narratives about their level of ability in europe. >> i was surprised to hear that in belgium some of their laws even inhibit them from doing such raids. i don't know if it still exists. they're not able to raid people's homes after 9:00 p.m. at night. that's not allowing them to go into people's homes. they went in last night and look what they found, bomb materials, isis flags, a number of suspicious items. >> joining us now from the state department, deputy spokesman mark towner. mark, what kind of assistance is the u.s. giving in the investigation? >> well, both secretary kerry and obviously president obama spoke to their belgian counterparts yesterday. we offered assistance. we already have ongoing cooperation in intelligence and law enforcement matters with the
belgians, and that's going to continue. we're going to obviously enhance that going forward because as you guys just commented, this threat from whoever carried out this attack, isol or other terrorist groups, it knows no borders. we all have to step up our game. we all have to remain vigilant and do what we can to stop this kind of, as you said, david, this kind of home grown radicalization that's very hard to stop. it remains a challenge. look, we're defeating isol on the battle fields in syria, in iraq. they've lost over 40% of their territory, but this kind of foreign fighter flow and this kind of self-radicalization remains a big challenge. >> nicole wallace. >> you talk about defeating them on the battlefield. your colleague john kirby said yesterday that they're losing. surely you can understand that the american people didn't wake up yesterday morning with the impression that they were losing and the people of belgium did not, you know, wake up this morning with any less trauma from what they endured yesterday. can you talk about how you bridge that divide in terms of sending out a message, i had a
similar job, i understand the challenges in it, but of how they're losing when they obviously prevailed in an extraordinary manner yesterday? >> well, you're right in the sense that while we're defeating them on the battlefield we continue to choke them off, put pressure on them in raqqah and elsewhere in iraq, in syria. we're making gains, but that ability, and they have declared their willingness to strike out to carry their quote, unquote, fight or struggle to really the heart of europe and elsewhere, in turkey as well. it remains a difficult challenge to confront because as the president said, as the secretary say the, as we all said, if you have a couple of individuals self-radicalized, recruited, whatever, willing to lay down their lives, carry out suicide attacks, it's very hard to stop that. you have to be right 100% of the time. they only have to be successful 1%. >> mark, you talked about
coordination between the united states, between our state department and intelligence agencies and european intelligence agencies. could you talk a bit briefly about the difficulty of coordinating everything that we provide to the various entities, france, brussels in terms of implementing the intelligence on the other side of the ocean, the difficulty involved in that? >> well, look, we have long-standing cooperation with the belgians, with the e.u., with france, with many european countries countries, you know, but that doesn't obviously preclude the fact that these are ongoing challenges. when you've got these groups that isol is, as i said, able to recruit or radicalize these individuals and you were talking about the suspects in yesterday's attacks who didn't seem to come up in the particular environment that might lead to radicalization. looked like there are somewhat petty criminals. again, we have to let the investigation run its course, but we all need to lift our game, so to speak.
we all need to be more vigilant, both here in the united states but also in europe. we need to tighten up that cooperation. >> mark, is it worrisome that intelligence isn't picking up more chatter ahead of these attacks, not only in brussels, we've seen them in turkey as well. these are tourist destinations for many american citizens and american tourists. we haven't seen any travel warnings issued prior to these attacks, so has chatter gone down? is that worrisome? >> well, we did put out a travel alert last night obviously in the wake of this most recent attack, and that reminded americans that they need to be vigilant wherever they were going. >> that's last night after the attack. >> no, i understand. in terms of what you're talking about, picking up chatter which speaks to intoll lintelligence, get into the details. that's a science but it's -- but it's also, you know, an art form as well. how we access or get into that chatter stream, how we identify these individuals, there are
experts who far outweigh my expertise obviously in this regard, but it's always a challenge to infiltrate these groups. >> david, i'll give you the last question but i'll throw one at you. it seems like there's so much catchup to do in terms of helping europe develop intelligence in a border free europe with pockets of areas that really are struggling to assimilate the muslim community. i mean, it seems like this is just like a bucket of gasoline, you know, waiting for a match because i'm not even sure how they would be able to counter this effectively at this point. >> it is a -- it is a bucket of gasoline. what i want to ask mark, secretary kerry is going to russia this weekend to talk to president vladimir putin, in part about isis. mark, give us a sense of what secretary kerry might say in that conversation. >> thanks, david. yeah, he is going. he's frankly arriving in moscow this morning. he is going to meet with obviously foreign minister
lavrov but also with president putin. you know, look, we have a two-pronged strategy, if you will, with regard to syria. we've got traction on the political front. we've got negotiations or proximity talks ongoing. we have to solve that civil war and then we can all collectively increase our efforts to dismantle and destroy daesh. it's that simple an equation. we have to end the fighting on the civil war in order to go after daesh more effectively but, again, the problem beyond syria, beyond iraq, that remains a challenge. >> mark, go ahead. go ahead, david. >> do you -- do you -- do you see the united states and russia fighting together, alongside in this fight against isis? >> if -- if russia and -- say it this way. if russia wants to play a constructive role in carrying out attacks or strikes against isol, we would welcome that opportunity to work with them. we didn't see that thus far, but we've got a nascent cessation of
hostilities on the ground. we've seen the fighting significantly drop off. there's a lot of work to be done there, but we feel we're making progress. >> all right. the state department's mark toner. thank you very much. david ignatius, thank you very much. up next, ted cruz's solution to preventing terror in america. we'll have the presidential candidates' comments next. ♪ the intelligent, all-new audi a4 is here. ♪ ♪ ain't got time to make no apologies...♪
it is standard law enforcement, if you have a neighborhood that is plagued by gang activity, it is standard and good law enforcement to direct more resources to work with the community that is facing gang activity to stop the gang members. that is standard good policing, to direct your resources to where the threat is coming from. we should do the exact same thing with radical islamic terrorism.
political correctness costs lives, and it is standard law enforcement, it is good law enforcement to focus on where threats are emanating from. and anywhere where there is a locus of rad cicalradicalism, we is an expanding presence of radical terrorism, we need law enforcement resources directed there, we need national security directed there. the object should be to keep americans safe, to keep everyone safe. >> so what's that? trump's doing that to him? >> can't blame everything on trump, can you? >> he's dogs it to himself. >> doing it to himself? >> he knows as much about standard law enforcement as i do about jet propulsion. >> that was senator ted cruz calling for increased policing of muslim communities in the u.s. cruz also invoked the policies of former new york city mayor michael bloomberg and last night the new york police department reacted reminding cruz that the
force has nearly 1,000 muslim officers in uniform. >> i would remind the senator he lives in the united states of america. the statements he made today is why he's not going to become president of this country, because we don't need a president that doesn't respect the values that form the foundation of this country. i have over 900 very dedicated officers in this department, many of whom do double duty. they serve as active duty members of the u.s. military in combat, something the senator has never seen. so before he starts denigrating any population group, take a close look at who he's denigrating. >> could we just pause to applaud the police commissioner of new york city. >> thank you, bratton. he didn't mince words. i think he kind of pushed back just right. you bring up a good point, it's not just officers in uniform, veterans. >> soldiers. >> soldiers, american citizens. joining us now in washington, the washington editor at large
for "the atlantic" steve klemen. steve was in belgium on his way to the airport when the terrorists struck. also former d.o.d. official, dr. evelyn farmiquas. she is a nonresident fellow. good to have you both on board. steve, a little too close for comfort, i bet. >> yeah. very, very close. and i have to tell you that while many of us sit back and analyze, as i do, some of these terrorism issues, it's very different being very close to the action. i arrived just after the bombs went off and was part of those evacuated out and spent most of my day yesterday trying to scramble out of the country. but the real -- the real issue are the victims, the people that were close to this who saw this, who are living with this, and who realize that the needle has moved inside belgium and there needs to be greater vigilance all around. i spoke to a great many dozens of people yesterday who felt
this real shock. >> well, i want to -- i'm wondering for both of you, actually, who delve deeply into these issues what your first thoughts were when you heard ted cruz's comments about how to combat these problems. >> well, i -- as a new yorker, i'm very proud of what the police commissioner said and i'm right there with him so i just don't think that's a constructive approach. what we learned at the wmd commission, mika, basically you have to focus on resilience, prevention and defeat. you've touched upon that earlier in the program some of these issues. you're never going to catchall of the terrorists so you have to resilient. on the prevention side, that's where the community policing comes into play. that's where providing opportunities for muslims in europe. as the police commissioner pointed out very clearly in the earlier segment, we have a lot of opportunity for muslim americans in the united states so we don't have to focus on that much. clearly we have to deal with
disaffected people who might join the radical islamist movements. the other is what d.o.d. does to defeat isis. >> steve, let me ask you about the military and police response that you saw firsthand following the attacks yesterday. there's been a lot of talk, even our reporters there on the ground saying they don't see the level of security they would have expected following such an incident. w what did you see? was it orderly? was it chaotic? >> i saw two things. one, i have to give credit to the officials at the belgium airport that came in after. i talked to some american officials about that, and they said they had just done quite a number of exercises training for exactly this kind of thing. it was evident. i thought that both the public there and the officials did a good job. that said, when i was evacuated back to one of the primary train stations, brussels train stations, there was almost no security until we heard about bombings, and one of the interviews that i tweeted out
that i did with one of the passengers that was in the mix yesterday, they said, we react heavily for one day and then tomorrow we'll have no security. so he says we've been living in a dream that we don't have to have a more vigilant present security presence throughout, and i guess i saw that. and just my mere presence of being in washington today raises question because i was at the airport. i was able to get out to brussels north train station. i got out before they closed down that station and closed down the borders to holland through a number of trains and anyone could have done what i did. >> right. >> i was not screened or reviewed anywhere. so that should raise red flags. >> that does. >> yeah. >> but, i mean, that's just the beginning. in europe i think what we've been really looking at throughout the morning is the borders. it's a whole different story. >> think about the u.s., mayor giuliani eluded to this being their 9/11. remember how the u.s. reacted.
>> our airports were shut down. >> there was chaos but it was orderly chaos and people could not move around as easily as steve did. >> evelyn, when you talk about community policing and you talk about these efforts, i feel like i've heard these words many times before. isn't that what's been done? what's not working? >> they're not doing enough. so these communities, and i'm talking now about europe, but these communities, especially in brussels, the maelbeek society, they are not well integrated. >> what does that mean? >> they don't have the same opportunity for jobs. they are looked down upon because of religion. the whole mind set in europe needs to shift in order to give these people equal opportunity and also, frankly, respect. people feel like they're not -- these communities do not feel sufficiently respected and accepted within many of these european countries. i'm not saying across the board.
there's still a long way to go in europe. even if you have trouble assimilating them, you have to give them equal opportunity to make a living and be a contributing part of society. a lot of these young men didn't have very many opportunities. >> steve, quick. >> ted cruz's comments infuriated me. it gives isis what isis wants which is to further alienate, exacerbate the tensions. thr heroes in these communities maelbeek, who are champions of inclusion, trying to reach out. it needs to go a lot farther like evelyn said. to basically try to divide those and segment those communities exacerbates the inferiority that they feel. >> let me make you more fewer furious comments here. >> i'm with the police commissioner. >> me, too. steve clemons.
>> i can't believe the commissioner has to make zblents ted cruz did an interview with savannah guthrie. we're going to turn around those comments and show them to you next. up next, we'll show you the markets. terrorist attacks don't seem to have the effect they used to. "morning joe" back in a moment.
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is happening now! get a $1,250 volkswagen reward card and 0% apr on new 2016 passat models. catching up here. former u.s. ambassador to iraq. also served as u.s. ambassador to afghanistan is out with a new book, "the envoy, from kabul to the white house, my journey through a turbulent world," turbulent it is. you have connections with my brother, my father, stories. >> husband. >> we'll get there. >> family affair. >> what good timing for the book. first of all, your thoughts on brussels and where we go from here given that europe seems to be so at risk now of more attacks. >> since 9/11 we have taken a
lot of measures to harden ourselves against terror to go after the terrorists and in the broader middle east. europe has not done as much to harden itself in terms of measures that are required for intelligence, law enforcement, on local community integration and security measures because it is a set of population, islamic population who are extremists or vulnerable to becoming extremists and belgium unfortunately has been such a place for a long time. in fact, two days before 9/11 i remember getting a call from the head of the northern alliance
that was dr. abdela abdela to tell me that the legendary commander of afghanistan was killed by two people of moroccan origin but had belgian passports. this has been a problem in belgium for some time. >> it has. we're learning there's an intelligence failure here and perhaps a lot of maybe catchup that needs to be done in terms of developing an intelligence structure and maybe even some sort of plan in between countries. >> this is now the defining challenge. it requires much more enhanced effort because it's going to be with us, this problem, for some time because this is the product of circumstances but the crisis that may take that case to work it so far. >> what can the united states
do? >> we have to protect ourselves first and foremost. we've done a lot since 9/11. continue to upgrade as required. we need to also cooperate with others in europe. appropriate with other powers, including russia. but at the same time we need to support moderate for the longer term in the middle east. we need muslims for intelligence because you have to penetrate these organizations. only muslims can and also other sport. >> i want to talk to you about a potential wild card in our activities going forward with coordinating intelligence in the fight against isis. it is our relationship with iran. we have been talking with iran for a much longer time than i think the general public knows. going forward, do you see iran playing any potentially valuable
role in our fight against isis? >> yes. first of all, as i describe in the book, i believe while we should be tough with iran or with anyone else that we have strategic issues with, but at the same time we should engage and talk with them. i have never understood why one wouldn't want to also engage while you pressure. yes, i think on the sunni terrorist extremist groups iran can be helpful, but there are places where iran is part of the problem unfortunately. i think engaging with iran to explore areas where we can cooperate is a good idea. >> you give our former boss a mixed report card. you have a pretty sharp critique in the book about the lack of preparation for iraq. can you talk through those two sides that you saw? >> sure.
i think the second issue, the iraq problem, there was something that went awry in the aftermath of the invasion. before the invasion the plan was not to govern iraq, not to dissolve the army, not to have radicalization but to reform the security institutions since they would be responsible for the local security. afterwards we did two contradictory things. we changed a plan very quickly without a lot of deliberations to occupation and then dissolving the army, hundreds of thousands of people knew how to use it who had livelihood, were people that were respected in the society, unemployed, angry, for a while they didn't get paid and when they were going to get paid they had to stand in line for hours and hours and hours.
>> disenfranchised. >> disenfranchised. i think that was a mistake and i believe that the leaders around the president did not serve him well by not deliberating on this issue of what the implications of a shift in plan would be. so i criticize that part of the president's idea. but on the islamic part it was, you know, wanted to make sure that all muslims are not alienated from the united states by treating them all as an enemy of the united states. >> the book is "the envoy." thank you so much. nice to see you. >> great to see you. up next, european stocks go higher after the attacks in belgium. are investors done being scared into selloffs. we'll go live to the new york stock exchange for that. one totally focused on what's next for your business. accelerating innovation. accelerating next. hewlett packard enterprise.
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what law enforcement does with gang violence is you target the neighborhoods where gang violence is prevalent and you root out the violence. >> that goes to my question. for example, you're saying gang violence. you look where is there gang violence. >> yes. >> look who controls those areas. >> yeah. >> when you look at controlling muslim neighborhoods, would you require some suspicion of muslim neighborhoods before you patrol. >> what i'm talking about is focusing law enforcement and national security resources on areas, on locations where there is a higher incidence of radical islamic terrorism. one of the tragic reasons we saw this attack yesterday in brussels is that europe's failed
immigration laws have allowed vast numbers of radical islamic terrorists to come into europe. >> that was senator cruz speaking earlier with savannah guthrie on the "today" show likening his call to patrol and secure muslim neighborhoods to federal authority. there's so much there. let's go to cnbc's sara eisen. shaking off the terror attacks so far. >> good morning. we are seeing remarkable resilience in the face of this tragic attacks. limited decline and europe is trading higher this morning. one pocket of weakness where you are seeing some of the nervousness is in some of the travel-related stocks. of course, airlines and hotels where there is a direct business hit when there is fear of terrorism. we've got a great chart from "usa today" showing historically in the days and the aftermath of terrorist attacks, we have lately seen more of a muted
reaction in stocks. exception here, of course, is back on 9/11 where stocks fell 5% on the day after. it continued to fall subsequent days but more recently, boston, the two attacks in paris last year, san bernardino, stocks have bounced back. the reason why the more muted response, why investors are more desensitized to these attacks has to do with the economic impact. they're just not seen as slowing down economies as much as, say, 9/11. that's really what it's all about when it comes to the stock market and the economic data and corporate earnings. >> cnbc's sara eisen, thank you so much. that does it for us this morning. our thanks to everyone here. mike, and nicole and everyone that joined us. erica hill picks up the coverage live in brussels after a quick break. you can't predict... the market. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your investments through good times and bad. for over 75 years, our clients have relied on us to bring our best thinking to their investments
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♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? good morning from brussels. you're watching msnbc. i'm erica hill. not far from the maelbeek substation. the heart of europe understandably hurting and trying to heal this morning as now for the second time in four months there is another all out manhunt underway. we want to show you part of the surveillance video that's been a major focus of the airport. this is from the airport on tuesday