tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC March 27, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PDT
and anti-isis banners. some arrests were made. this happens as belgian prosecutors arrested raids today. 13 house searches this morning, 9 people taken in for intense interrogations and five were later released. the victims of the attack will be remembered tomorrow at a special memorial service where prayers will be offered from representatives of the christian, jewish, and islaming faiths. today, the death toll of victims in the attacks stands at 28. belgian authorities revised the number down from an earlier count of 31 that included three of the attackers. we're learning more this morning about the identities of the victims. justin and stephanie schultz, an american couple who moved to belgium in 2014 were killed in the suicide bomber at the b brussels airport. also, 79-year-old andre adom, former belgium ambassador to the united states in the 1990s.
he went on becoming belgium's ambassador to the united nations. keir, for those tuning in this morning, please reset the scene of what happened for about 45 minutes today in that square in brussels. >> that's right, joy. for a while, it was close to running battles between right-wing protesters and the police. we were in the middle of it at one stage. just down along the street here, they were trying to push the protesters out of this square, when they were firing water cannon to try to move them along. riot police pushing them along. and then the protesters returning fire, if you like, with missiles, anything, it looked like they could find in the street. in some cases, flares. as we pushed along the street, they got about a half mile along there to the train station. people were on the ground being arrested. some clearly injured. finally, they got into the train station. the principle was, the aim was
clearly to get them there and get them back on trains. it all began in the square, which as you can see is peaceful. people are just trying to remember the victims of the attacks. and then, these guys, describing themselves as soccer fans, arrived dressed in black. many wearing masks. they were shouting slogans, singing songs, and then people, others here on the steps began shouting fascist, fascist. the police clearly knew they were coming and had a clear plan to move them on. that's what we saw transpire in the minutes afterwards. >> keir, it did seem that the police did, as you said, seemed to have a plan. they were organized and it was dramatic. they did use water cannon, but there seemed to be a low violence, very calm reaction to what was happening. talk a little bit about that police response. >> yeah, it was the kind of police response you see across europe. for them, from their point of view, pretty standard, honestly.
they knew they were in the square. they could see they were here. they didn't want them here. so the process is that they will encircle them with riot police and steadily begin to move through the square pushing them back. behind the water police, the water cannon backing them up. the water cannon as far as i could see fired only once. plainly, that gives the protesters s some encouragemeno keep moving. and there were points when we were literally running full pace. the protesters moving very, very quickly. that's really what the police wanted. they wanted to get them back to the rail station and get them out of the city. it does look as if that's what they have achieved. >> all right, keir simmons, thank you very much. appreciate it. >> msnbc's ayman mohyeldin is also in brussels and joins me now. so, ayman, you did hear from keir that it was a fairly swift and fairly peaceful end. a few people injured, a few arrests. talk about the atmosphere now in
that square where you seem to have something very different going on, a lot more peaceful and a lot more positive. >> absolutely. i would safely say that the atmosphere has returned to what it has been all week long. it is actually a beautiful day here, by belgian standards. the sun is out, it's a clear sky. cool temperatures, but more importantly, the high temperatures of anxiety that we saw earlier today seem to now have dissipated. in fact, a short while ago, there was a peruvian band playing here. folks gave them a huge round of applause. we saw families coming back out after the square cleared, relatively quickly with the arrival of the far right wing group and the presence of police which quickly escalated, if you will, but as the particular right-wing group was pushed out, the crowds filters back in. and in fact, a short while ago, they unfurled all of the flags that had been tied together that had been hung up on the fence or if you will the gate of the
historic stock exchange. that was brought further down to the crowds. and as they brought those flags down, representing dozens of countries, people here erupted in applause. we're back to the scene that we had seen, the hour of tension that was unfolding here seems to now have completely gone away. and it's back to people paying tributes and memorializing those who were killed in the terrorist attacks. people are still laying flowers, lighting candles. people are coming by, laying down whatever they have in terms of flags or any item of national unity. the signs are still up on the gate of the historic stock exchange. they have not been taken down. it does highlight, if you will, the fault lines that exist in belgium that really have come to the light, to the forefront, if you will, of the ongoing discussion here. this group, the far right wing group, many of them soccer hooligans, even the police telling our own producers on the ground, some were thugs dressed in black. it was an intimidating scene, but they also were saying that belgians don't cry for belgium,
fight for belgium. that was one of the things we heard as well. so it's a group that has highlighted some of the concerns of belgium over the wake -- in the wake of this terrorist attack in the sense those who are taking more of a nationalistic tone blaming what happened here on tuesday on a whole host of issues whether it be immigrants, whether it be islam, whether it be the terrorists themselves who carried this out. but we also saw on the other side those who have been here in protest and solidarity with the victims, and calling for unity. they countered some of the chants that we were hearing with their own chants of unity and of love. so it was a tense few hours but it's safe to say that the square and certainly brussels is breathing a sigh of relief that it did not escalate into something much more violent. >> indeed. ayman mohyeldin, thank you. great reporting. we're joined by nbc global correspondent bill neely in brussels. bill, we've been talking this morning about some of the divisions in belgium, even before we saw this terrorist
attack last tuesday. brilliantly really laid out a lot of them, linguistic, cultural, neighborhood differences. talk to us about the group nation, the black-clad group who showed up who have been described as far right nationals to soccer hooligans. who are they? how pervasive is that movement in brussels? >> they're one of a number of right-wing self-declared actually fascist groups in belgium. and really, the right wing has been growing, or the far right growing in belgium over a number of years. and the isis attacks on paris and brussels has only increased their momentum, if you like. you can see it all over europe. it's not just in belgium. you've got more votes in france for the right wing group there, a group in germany called alternative for germany, and you can see them in denmark, in
holland, and in other countries. but these, as ayman was saying, these people on the square today are exactly the same people who chant every saturday at soccer stadiums. in belgium. they were using some of the same soccer chants here, such as, we are the people, and this is our home. the alternative, the opposing group, if you like here, were on the steps of the old stock exchange here, were chanting "we are all the children of immigrants" because that really is the fault line between the two groups. you could say that they are all anti-isis. but clearly, one group sees tackling isis and sees one of the solutions as targeted immigrants, getting rid of immigrants. cracking down hard on muslims. and the other group that was gathered around the makeshift memorial here of candles and flowers, to the dead of tuesday's attacks, they were
saying, no, we must embrace immigrants and make showure thae don't crack down too hard on immigrant communities. but you know, this right-wing group has been growing in belgium. and it will probably grow all the more in the coming weeks. that will be one of the consequences of the isis attacks on tuesday. joy, you know, isis supporters will be reveling in this. what isis wants to do is fracture a small already divided country like belgium. the explosions on tuesday are one thing. what we saw here were the aftershocks. when the establishment, the government, the police, the intelligence services all start blaming each other and pointing fingers, who failed, who is to blame, that's exactly what isis supporters enjoy seeing a state fracture as a result of their violence. joy. >> great reporting, nbc's bill nee neely, thank you very much.
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bratton slammed ted cruz over the senator's suggestion that police intensify patrols of muslim neighborhoods after the terrorist attack in brussel. in a saturday new york daily news editorial, he writes, we police our city, not by campaign slogans or inflammatory rhetoric but by an old piece of parchment called the u.s. constitution and another called the bill of rights. ted cruz and others seem to be willing to sideline these principles because what they stand for shifts with the tide of the campaign and the shrillness of the name calling.
as as been said, when you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything. senator ted cruz needs to do some homework before he speaks again, end quote. donald trump elaborated on his foreign policy views in a lengthy interview with the "new york times." among trump's primary proposals are plans to halt purchases of oil from saudi arabia and other arab allies unless they commit ground troops to the fight against isis, allow japan and south korea to build their own nuclear arsenals, and to renegotiate many fundamental treaties with american allies including a 56-year-old security pact with japan. joining me from washington is republican economist bruce bart ll and former defense secretary bruce born, and counterterrorism expert malcolm nance. i want to start with you malcolm on the rebuke by commissioner bratton against ted cruz, who is right? should we return to surveillance of muslim communities as they did in nypd or not even
contemplate it? >> we shouldn't even contemplate it. the nypd didn't really have the surveillance ted cruz is talking about. as a matter of fact, i characterize it as the best job in the new york city police where they were sitting around cafes and listening to people while drinking moroccan mint tea. this is not what the u.s. intelligence community does. i have trained half the state in law enforcement intelligence procedures and bringing them out to the big world of isis intelligence. we cannot compromise our values as american citizens. the fourth amendment of the constitution justified unlawful search and seizure. it doesn't justify it, but prohibited unlawful search and seizure. we cannot go out and suddenly decide we're going to go to the most shameful periods of american history and reproduce that for political favor ora few votes. isis is watching. isis will get a vote in this election. they will take these words and use them against us. >> and bruce bartlett, ted cruz
having received that rebuke, he had other things to say. we have been reporting this morning about what happened in brussels and the far right group that is essentially an anti-immigrant group that marched in the square in brussels, opposed by a peaceful march at the same time. i want to play you what ted cruz has said on the topic of immigration and get your response. >> much of the cause of these terror attacks is the failed immigration policies in europe over the decades where they have allowed vast numbers of islamic terrorists to come into europe. they live in isolated locations where law enforcement often doesn't enl gauge at all, and they're hotbeds for radicalization that leads to these sorts of attacks. we can't become europe. we can't follow their same mistakes and we need our law enforcement to engage and fight this enemy. >> what do you make, bruce, of this connection being made between immigration, islamoph e islamophob islamophobia, frankly, and
terrorism? >> i think it's complete nonsense. the original argument against immigration was purely economic. it was immigrants from central america are coming to the united states and taking american jobs. and they're now trying to shift that anti-immigrant attitude into an anti-muslim, xenophobic, and frankly, a fascistic attitude towards muslims, towards those of middle eastern extraction, and so on. it's pandering at its worst. >> and larry korb, let's move on to the front-runner in the republican race, donald trump. he's made some comments regarding the united states and europe that i think you might find interesting. let's take a listen. >> i don't think america is a safe place for americans. you want to know the truth. i don't think england or i don't think that europe is a safe place. but neither is the united states a safe place, because we're allowing thousands of people to come in here, nobody knows where they're from. nobody knows who they are. and they're coming here by the
thousands. >> larry, you're a veteran of the reagan administration, frankly. have you ever heard an american presidential candidate run on the notion that the united states is not a safe place? >> no, i haven't. and you know, no free society is completely safe. i mean, as president obama has talked about, you know, you can have accidents in bathtubs. you have, you know, car accidents. we have all of the people with guns going around. you know, creating problems. but no, the republican party that i remember, and i think bruce does, we were the shining city on the hill. we were talking about what makes us great and wants people to come here. and don't forget, before we take in any of these refugees, there's an 18-month screening process. and we have never, any of the refugees we have taken in in the last 30 years. not a single one has caused a terrorist attack. >> and bruce, you know, you, too, are a veteran of the reagan era. it seems like a completely different republican party.
this kind of rhetoric, as it relates to the republican party, is it in your view similar to the rise of the sort of ethnonationalism we're seeing in europe or is it a completely different thing? >> unfortunately, i see a lot of parallels. what worries me a lot about the trump phenomenon is the way he's attracting the real bottom feeders of american politics. people who are like the far right people who demonstrated in brussels earlier today, who i worry are self-organizing and thinking about ways they can perhaps create violence, create opportunity such as the 1930s, to mobilize people in favor of their attitudes towards immigrants, towards muslims, and i worry about that we're creating a powder keg that could explode. >> and malcolm, is that a real worry? on the one hand, you have people who have a genuine opposition to immigration.
they simply do. it isn't anything particularly -- they don't want to do something about it that is violent. they just oppose it. on the other hand, you do have this campaign attracting the support of neonazis, unsoliceded thoi it may be, whether it is or not, the kkk being attracted to this sort of message. is that an actual thing that we should be concerned about? >> of course it should be. first off, every american has the right to participate in the political process, no matter what their, you know, opinion is. you know, people who fight in the armed forces fight for the defense of everyone's rights. right? no matter how crazy they are. however, in this case, what we're doing is we're now seeing the rhetoric move from even the most extreme parts of political rhetoric that we have seen since 1860, since just before the civil war. now we're talking about isolated parts, not just of people in the united states, but the world. it was this exact same belief system, the exact same ability
to mischaracterize political opposition that anders breivik, we have talked about him today, the right-wing nationalist in norway, who mass murdered 77 school children in norway because he wanted to excise the next generation of norwegians who were susceptible to immigration. we could quickly move to violence with this level of rhetoric. >> i want to play one more piece of sound. this is ted cruz, saying one thing that foreign policy experts have said was the least productive thing we have heard thus far from one of the presidential candidates. if we could play ted cruz. >> we need our law enforcement to engage and to fight this enemy, which is islamism. different from islam. izlaumpism is a political and theocratic philosophy that commands its adherents to engage in jihad, to murder or violently convert infidels which they mean
anybody else, all of us, and to force us to live under sharia law. and we have got to fight islamism at every level. this administration is not doing that. and that is why we're seeing the rise of radical islamic terrorism all over the globe. >> that was one of the things he said, talking about and characterizing islamic religion. let's play what he said about carpet bombing. >> we will utterly and completely destroy isis. we will carpet bomb them into oblivion. we will arm the kurds on the ground. we'll use our forces to defeat them, and we won't put our forces into combat with the rules of engagement that obama is so fond of that tie their arms behind their back, that make it impossible for them to fight and win. that is wrong and that is immoral. >> that concept that an american president would carpet bomb, you know, parts of the muslim world, what does that do to our national security in terms of what does it do to our strategy
against isis? >> first of all, it undermines our values. that's whnot who we are. but more important, it will create more terrorists. don rumsfeld said years ago, for every one you bomb and kill, you create five or six more. if you carpet bomb them, you're going to create an incredible amount. it will feed into their narrative, and their struggle against isis is not going to be won on the battlefield. i think they haven't got a victory on the battlefield in the last nine months. we're pushing them back. eventually, you have to undermine their narrative so people don't want to keep joining them. we haven't even talked about self-radicalizing people who can cause problems, particularly if you do something like cruz recommended. >> and i'm going to give you the last word, bruce. is there a faction within the republican party that believes what larry korb just said, and that has the power to push back against the kind of narrative we're hearic from ted cruz and
donald trump? >> perhaps, but there's a great deal of fear of the base of the republican party that is attracted to the extremism of trump and cruz. and there's really no leader, i would be curious to see whether john kasich, who is the closest thing to the sort of person you're talking about, what he will say about this, and whether he tries to make this an issue to distinguish himself as the reasonable one left in the race against the extremism. >> all right, bruce, larry, malcolm, thank you all. really appreciate it. up next, moral monday's leader, reverend william barber. one totally focused on what's next for your business. accelerating innovation. accelerating next. hewlett packard enterprise. thwith aches, chills,g. and fever, there's no such thing as a little flu.
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pat mccrory to the likes of george wallace, and ross barnet, all southern governors known for their support for segregation. there are also concerns being raised about other aspects of the law that can have significant negative effects on wages and employment for everyone living in north carolina. yesterday, i spoke with receive rnd william barber, president of the north carolina naacp and the author of the third reconstruction, moral mondays, fusion politics and the rise of a new justice movement about this very issue. >> last week, doing holy week, when we ought to focus on love, justice, and mercy, our legislature under the false guise of evangelical morality and conservative passed a bill that is laced with racism, discrimination, and classism. let me tell you what the audience what we don't know, what people don't know. this bill now makes it illegal for a city or county to require
contractors to pay more than a minimum wage. and to require that people who contract with them also give certain kinds of benefits, ie, sick leave and other things to their workers. secondly, this bill also makes it nullifies the ability for a citizen based on age, based on sex, based on handicap, disability, race, or color, to bring an employment discrimination in state court, in state court. and this law also takes away that ability. so what it means is in north carolina, now, you can no longer bring an employment discrimination case in state court. you have to go to federal court, which means it's harder for working poor people that can't file in the courthouse in their county. this bill is a form of fear and
jim crowism. it's really the negative side of fusion politics. they used the transgender. that's bad enough, and the lgbt community, but then they slipped on these attacks on the working poor, the disabled, women, people of color. it is just bad and unholy and immoral what they have done with this bill. >> to rerack that for folks. i want to put that graphic back up, to the producers, the three additional provisions, in addition to going after transgender people's ability to go to the public restroom, it prevents any government for enacting its own minimum wage for itself so they cannot enact a minimum wage for their city, and local governments cannot require contractors to have certain employment practices such as higher minimum wage or paid sick leave, and it prevents lawsuits. individual can no longer sue over employment or public accommodation discrimination.
have you ever seen a law like that passed? has anything like that been enacted in your state? >> you have to go back to jim you days. it's an old tactic. the white southern strategy where you use fear, you use racism and homophobia in this case, and underneath the law, you cause people to vote against their own self interests. joy, even if you are discriminated based on religion, they have now nullified the ability for you to file a state discrimination case. now, one of the things that concerns us, and this is where we're going to have to learn, some of us in the so-called progressive community. the business community is in uproar about the attack on the lgbt transgender, and we are, too, and you should be. we should have been in an uproar when this passed the worst voter suppression law and worst redistricting law, because this is what allowed the legislators to get in place in the first
place, which is passing these laws. we have to understand how this all connects. it is sinister, it is shrewd on their behalf. and we have to become very wise in the way in which we talk about this. so this is a bad bill for the lgbt transgender community. it's a racist bill. it's full of classism. it's discriminatory. we ought to be resisting it legally. we ought to be resisting it electorally, and we ought to be resisting it through civil disobedience, and political civil disobedience. counties should go ahead and pass billed to raise minimum wauj and face the state to take them to court. we need to recognize it because if it's happening here in north carolina, the goal is to use this as a place like they did with voter suppression, to see if they can spread it around the country. >> one note, an update on some of the companies that have publicly opposed the new north
it's a virtual dead heat for democrats in wisconsin. recent polls show hillary clinton and bernie sanders running neck and neck with clinton pulling slightly ahead. wisconsin looks a whole lot like bernie country. a midwestern state with a strong progressive tradition and it happens to be overwhelmingly white. 87.8% white to be exact. at a rally in madison last night, sanders seemed to be feeling pretty good about his chances. >> you know, we knew from day one that we were going to have politically a hard time in the deep south. that is a conservative part of our country. but we knew things were going to
improve as we headed west. and we have, with your support coming here in wisconsin, we have a path toward victory. >> joining me now from milwaukee is lena taylor, and back with me is ruth conf. i'm going to go with you first, lena. let's talk about where the candidates are going in the next few days. we have bernie sanders heading to milwaukee, to appleton, to kenosha, and to lacrosse. while hillary clinton is heading to milwaukee and green bay. what does that tell you about their strategies going into the primary next week? >> there's no question that hillary is going where there are larger populations and larger populations of color. because she understands that that's an important piece. i would argue that mr. sanders, senator sanders has had an opportunity to court madison quite a bit.
and is going to some of the areas that have also shown to be important places in the state in state-wide victories. >> and do you think, just obviously, you represent the state, you represent part of the state, is this a state hat is in your view more of a sanders state or is it a state that's going to fit sort of the model of the ones that hillary clinton has won? >> well, i'll say this. wisconsin has also been, you could either call it as i like to, a blue state with some red polka dots, or, you know, a red state with blue polka dots. either way it goes, we have kind of been divided. i would argue that hillary fits exactly the kinds of issues that matter, at least speaking of my area of the state. the justice issues she's speaks to, she's been consistent. she speaks to the values of wimb and so many others. she's fought for these things for a very long time. i think staunch democrats are surely excited about hillary, and there's no question that the
kind of work that she's done, that it speaks volumes to black women, especially who are large vote giving population in our state. >> and you are a hillary supporter? >> in my area. >> a hillary supporter yourself? >> i am definitely a hilla clinton supporter. i think she'll do very well. >> let's go to you, ruth, and talk about some of the other issues, the other factors in this wisconsin primary, an open primary. talk about how that impacts the result. >> well, i think people are going to vote within their own party primaries here. people are finding a pretty compelling race on both the democrats and republican side. the fact it's an open primary and people can switch around and vote in the other party's race is less of a factor than in the past. i would add to senator taylor's list of reasons to go to the locations you describes, trade, the collapse of manufacturing here. we're a rust belt state. kenosha where sanders is going is a place where he can really hilt on these themes. he's, of course, a big advocate
for fair trade. a big critic of nafta like trade agreements, and a vulnerability of hillary clinton's. she switched positions a lot on this issue. she ran in the upper midwest in 2008 as a strong advocate for fair trade, a big opponent of nafta. one of the things that came out in her e-mails is while she ran against cafta, she lobbied for it as secretary of state. he's going to make the case that the whole issue of economic inequality of the collapse of the middle class is tied to the trade agreements. >> and how much of a factor is scott walker psychologically for democrats as they go to the polls? there was a failed attempt to recall governor walker. he obviously has a lot of close ties to the koch brothers. they have been big backers of his. does he hang out there in the atmosphere, the anti-union ledge sliecher he signs. is that something that motivates democratic voters in the state? >> there's no question that's something that motivates democratic voters, but to go to
what ruth said, i think the manufacturing argument that sander used in other areas of the nation didn't work well for him in that way. i think illinois and i think that ohio are examples. ohio is very similar to wisconsin. and it hopefully will with all of the work that we're doing on the ground, turn for hillary because the turnout that hopefully will happen in our area of the state. i think that scott walker will matter arguably more in those republican primaries and not as much. it is something that motivates us, but we're concerned about jobs. we're concerned about the justice issues, the things that matter, the things that hillary has been consistent on and has been, frankly, a champion. so i think those are going to be the things that are going to pull the voters out. the voters that sometimes don't come out in the midterm elections are voters that will, and they are the voters who tend to look like my constituents and will lean her way. >> ruth, give us a quick prediction. who wins? >> it's super tight, and i think
turnout goes to bernie. if it's high troutd, bernie wins. that's very possibly what's going to happen. a game changer in wisconsin. >> thank you very much, lena taylor, and ruth. appreciate you both. >> meanwhile, donald trump and ted cruz take their battle to the badger state as well. ♪ the intelligent, all-new audi a4 is here. ♪ ♪ ain't got time to make no apologies...♪ the market.redict but through good times and bad... ...at t. rowe price... ...we've helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. out on the town or in for e night, at&t helps keep everyone connected.
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standard of care available anywhere. and guests can come to see them simply being their majestic selves. inspiring the next generation of people to love them as you do. parts of the republican establishment are finally going over to ted cruz's side, if only to thwart an increasingly unpredicted donald trump. jeb bush endorsed cruz on wednesday. that same day, wisconsin governor scott walker acknowledged that cruz is the only one still in the race who has any chance of defeating trump. walker has yet to make an official endorsement, and his could be particularly important as it's increasingly looking like wisconsin will be the stop trump movement's last stand. a poll this week shows cruz and trump neck and neck with cruz slightly ahead. wisconsin is winner-take-all by state and congressional district, so even a slight voter lead could mean huge delegate gains for cruz.
joining me now, bruce bart ll, and back with me are jason johnson and amy. bruce, i'm going to go to you as my expert on the gop. why do you suppose it's governors who seem to be willing now to get behind ted cruz, built you still don't see much of the washington sort of senatorial establishment getting behind cruz? >> well, i think the big problem for the republican establishment, which i assume the governors tend to represent, is the impact of trump at the top of the ticket on down ticket races. for governor, for senate, for congress. i think they're desperately afraid that many, many republicans will stay home on election day rather than vote for trump, and they're desperately prying to find somebody at the top of the ticket whether it's cruz or perhaps somebody else in a brokered convention, perhaps a paul ryan, who of course, is from wisconsin, might motivate republicans to at least come out and vote and keep control of
congress. i think that's their main concern right at the moment. >> bruce, to stay with you for a moment, what do you think would be the impact if a brokered convention placed, let's say, scott walker as the nominee. he doesn't seem opposed to taking it if they offer him. what would be the result among rank and file republicans? >> i think it would be a disaster. you're in effect thwarting the will of the people. you're just ignoring all of the results of the primaries. you're saying that none of the candidates either trump or cruz or kasich or any of the ones who have already dropped out were just going to ignore all those people and impose some, you know, from some back room smoke-filled room deal, somebody who has never won a single primary. i think that's insane and really impossible for me to imagine. >> and you have heard this week, the daily beast was reporting that forces swirling around marco rubio may have had a hand in pushing the stuff about ted
cruz. a tremendous amount of in-fighting among the stop-trump candidates. why no consolidation if the party is so opposed to having donald trump being the nominee? why is there not more consolidation behind someone like ted cruz? >> i think there's not more consolidation because if you think of ted cruz, he was someone who was also seen as an outsider. this election was really about insiders and outsiders. even on the dmentdic side. so ted cruz, while he's sort of the person that everyone is looking to, at the beginning, we were talking ubd ted cruz as if he was someone who the senate wasn't going to like. his senate colleagues have not endorsed him as much as other candidates. one of the things that is really important is it's really late in the game. the idea is if we were going to see some consolidation and a real effort to stop trump, a lot of people said it should have come earlier. the real issue, and why people are struggling with trying to consolidate is they're trying to decide, if we have to choose somebody, we're going to choose ted cruz. that's really hard because that doesn't have the enthusiasm that
has if you said six months ago, we're going to settle on marco rubio and try to put all our money there. it's late, but wisconsin is a really important state. they're spending a lot of money in wisconsin, i should say the republicans trying to stop donald trump are spending a lot of money in that state. there's still going to be a big push there, but it is late. >> if ted cruz, jason, were to win wisconsin, what would that do to the race? it wouldn't catch him up in delegates, but what do you think that would do for the stop trump movement? >> they would be thrilled. the sort of hash tag hold your nose for cruz campaign would feel a bit more enthusiastic because if he can win a state that is winner-take-all it makes it all the more likely that donald trump won't be able to have the necessary delegates, which means they could possibly try something at the convention. i think it's even bigger than that. i think the story you mentioned earlier, the national enquirer story, if that doesn't have legs and ted criz cuz can go throught controversy, whatever it is it
may amount to and still win the state, it also makes him look like a more viable candidate. that will mean he can take an outside hit and still win in the primaries and it may bring more people to his side. >> one of the more fascinating developments i have been reading about in the last two days is this lose with cruz idea that some republicans would rather see cruz be the nominee even though they believe he would not win in the general as an idea they could reconsolidate for 2020. are you thinking that taking place on the right? >> not really. i'm hearing more about the possibility of a brokered convention and the possibility that a white knight will emerge. i think from the establishment's point of view even though cruz is an outsider and less than trump. i think he is the vehicle for a stop trump movement.
i don't think it's pro cruz so much as anti-trump at this point. >> in wisconsin, where are the bradley foundations of the world. the koch brothers. where are they in terms of interest in these candidates whether it's donald trump or a stop trump candidate. >> they are interested in the stop trump campaign. the times just wrote a story about the fact that they are seeing $2 million in ads to put ads against donald trump. we are seeing big money donors. i don't know who they are. they are in a coalition that they are having off record conversations. if it's not the koch brothers, there is a move for big money people to say we have to get behind ted cruz. wisconsin is going to be an important place and i think we will see a big fight. >> jason, last word to you.
one of the big things that is happening is a shaky senate reelect. how much does that factor in to the stop trump effort? >> that's huge. russ fine gold could win. this is really, really key. with trump, he has rallies in milwaukee or the county. it's key because you have a very anti-protest police chief or share there who said that protesters should be beaten and put out and thrown in the stree streets, this could end his chances and push cruz over the edge. >> thank you all for being here. much more after the break. yet. a car that can see trouble and stop itself to avoid it.
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reaction from the clinton camp. the gop front-runner goes on record with a long interview. some of his views are rather unique. should the u.s. stop buying oil from saudi arabia? analysis is next. >> the former communications director from ben carson. does he have any regrets after endorsing donald trump? this is the place for politics. new reaction from donald trump and ted cruz about an ongoing personal fooeud saying he would spill the beans about his wife, heidi. >> you could look, but i wouldn't talk about it. i'm responding to what he does. he's the that